Which was only a few months, much less than the time period she spent with Omid and Christa or her alone time after New Frontier.
and was able to teach her things she would need as she got older.
And what was that exactly? He taught her how to shoot a gun and to keep her hair short, and that's it. This Lee deification is really annoying. He was undoubtedly a good man, but he wasn't as great as people make him out to be. And before you say that Lee died for her: no, he didn't. Lee would have died anyway, he just chose to do something good with the rest of his life. Him being bitten was a stupid accident that, if anything, actually set him back from finding Clementine sooner. And no, that's not me blaming him for dying - I'm just stating the facts.
As you maybe aware because of the fact Clementine's real father was not around very much
Clementine's parents were just taking a vacation in Season 1. There's nothing to suggest that Ed wasn't there for his daughter pre-apocalypse. Literally nothing.
and ended up becoming a zombie
Oh no, fuck him for dying a gruesome death and reanimating as a walking corpse.
she really had no father figure in her life up to that point
Again: what are you basing this on other than pure speculation? Speculation that seems very unreasonable, I might add. Clementine obviously loved her parents and wanted to find them as soon as possible. There's still not a single thing in the game to suggest that Ed was a bad father.
People throw the term "father figure" around way too easily imo. Lee was just a nice guy taking care of a little girl that he met by chance. He did a pretty good job, and I'm sure that Clem was still devastated by the loss, but at the end of the day, Lee himself put it best:
I would have to say I see Lee as a father figure to Clementine. He has been with her through all of Season one and was able to teach her thi… morengs she would need as she got older. As you maybe aware because of the fact Clementine's real father was not around very much and ended up becoming a zombie she really had no father figure in her life up to that point and to me Lee just fit that role.
He was at best a step father figure. Clementine loved her real dad very much and would never replace him. Lee did love Clementine like a daughter but wouldn't try to push that expectation onto a young girl who had lost so much.
Well said sir, fuck Vernon. Lee was never creepy when interacting with Clementine, he always made sure she was fed, watered, happy, etc. Even died and suffered immensely trying to save her.
Vernon could have been anyone, a psychopath in the closet, opportunist, anything. You literally knew that guy for 1 day or something I think… more? In a world like the Walking Dead, Lee's reaction was definitely realistic. You aren't gonna just give up your daughter to a stranger, are you? He took over Clementine's parent role after they disappeared without knowing if they were alive or not, and even faithfully continued to do so even when he saw them as walkers. To the point he was trying so hard to protect her that he kept slipping in and out of consciousness while he was bitten then Clem had to drag him,, dying while further telling her how to protect herself to the last breath until he slumped on the radiator and inevitably died. She never forgot him, she always remembered him and was embedded so much in her mind she still mentions him like her father, to this very season.
Definitely creepy and not a parent, how sick of Lee to do these disgu… [view original content]
I doubt he wanted to fill any void, it was that he stumbled upon her house looking for help and found her along then started taking care of her when she approached him, he never initiated anything it was spontaneous progression. Clementine was alone, her babysitter a walker and nobody to take care of her, that's so far the least thing in the universe that's creepy. Also the family was only his wife who had affair and slept with a senator, Lee never had any kids with his wife so there wasn't anything related to that.
If Clementine's parents were alive and knew what happened to Lee and the story of the whole thing,, he'd be awarded Medal of Honour on his grave or something. Not that she loved her parents more than Lee or vice versa, they all had their special place in her heart, too special to be labelled as "love more than" etc.
God damn it I miss Lee, you just had to remind me xD
I'm pretty sure you meant to respond to me, but with that said, it was just that line at that moment that kinda made me question whether tha… moret was healthy or not. Yes, at the end of the day, Lee is the protagonist and one we have a lenient amount of say over, but the game already established that he had family issues that caused him to murder someone in a fit of rage, so it's entirely possible that he was using Clementine to fill that void from a certain interpretation.
I agree with everything you said other than Lee not teaching her anything other than being a barber and how to defend herself. I'm not trying to build him into some kind of god, but he really did make an impact on Clementine's character. Throughout the game, whatever choices you made either taught her to keep her humanity at any cost or put survival first. Clem grew as a person because of Lee, without him she would probably be dead or a different person entirely.
He has been with her through all of Season one
Which was only a few months, much less than the time period she spent with Omid and C… morehrista or her alone time after New Frontier.
and was able to teach her things she would need as she got older.
And what was that exactly? He taught her how to shoot a gun and to keep her hair short, and that's it. This Lee deification is really annoying. He was undoubtedly a good man, but he wasn't as great as people make him out to be. And before you say that Lee died for her: no, he didn't. Lee would have died anyway, he just chose to do something good with the rest of his life. Him being bitten was a stupid accident that, if anything, actually set him back from finding Clementine sooner. And no, that's not me blaming him for dying - I'm just stating the facts.
As you maybe aware because of the fact Clementine's real father was not around very much
Clementine's parents we… [view original content]
I doubt he wanted to fill any void, it was that he stumbled upon her house looking for help and found her along then started taking care of … moreher when she approached him, he never initiated anything it was spontaneous progression. Clementine was alone, her babysitter a walker and nobody to take care of her, that's so far the least thing in the universe that's creepy. Also the family was only his wife who had affair and slept with a senator, Lee never had any kids with his wife so there wasn't anything related to that.
If Clementine's parents were alive and knew what happened to Lee and the story of the whole thing,, he'd be awarded Medal of Honour on his grave or something. Not that she loved her parents more than Lee or vice versa, they all had their special place in her heart, too special to be labelled as "love more than" etc.
God damn it I miss Lee, you just had to remind me xD
I'd like to expand on this, to whoever said Clementine never considered Lee as a father figure.
When you first meet Clementine on the rad… moreio, and in certain dialogue you don't say anything, she says "I just want you to answer me like my dad!", her first impression of Lee was him being almost her father and was instantly comfortable being around him. Watch this
He was a friend, a surrogate father, a father figure and her guardian, gave up his life to protect her. That's the highest level of caring for someone.
While I think Lee definitely looked after her like she was one of his own, the entire time she was with them she held out hope of being reunited with her real parents, and she pretty much loses Lee before she even has time to process/accept that they're dead. I think it does go past the point, for her, where she doesn't consider him simply a friend, she might not even be sure how to categorize their relationship. She does care deeply about him, and is aware of everything he did for her. Their time together was an especially dark one for her, her memories of him are tied to the loss of her family. I think it was in the first episode when she can tell Luke "The same thing that happens to everyone", she still has some of that childlike innocence about her but she's already starting to shut down by that point.
Javier: ??? - soon to be Clem's second brother if Telltale doesn't waste the opportunity.
Oh and I don't know, I don't think Luke and Jane were that important to Clem.
Clementine has had quite a few adult guardians/mentors. I personally label the, like this;
Lee : Surrogate Father
Kenny : Uncle figure
Luke : Big Brother
Jane : Big Sister
I don't think Luke and Jane were that important to Clem.
I think that would've depended on how you played, to be honest. Personally I would've loved the idea of having Luke and Jane as those kind of "sibling figures" for Clem.
Javier: ??? - soon to be Clem's second brother if Telltale doesn't waste the opportunity.
Oh and I don't know, I don't think Luke and Jane were that important to Clem.
I did like Luke and Clementine's relationship, and Jane was another character that Clementine could bond with.
However, I don't think that Clementine saw these two as a brother/sister. Luke, maybe, but I don't think she knew or experienced enough with Jane to think of her as an older sister. Also, I don't know how much she can look up to her for being the cause of her "uncle" Kenny's death.
Though I do know you like Jane, and I don't want to say anything bad about her knowing full well that you like her, but I personally didn't like her character a whole heck of a lot, so I may be biased.
I don't think Luke and Jane were that important to Clem.
I think that would've depended on how you played, to be honest. Personally I would've loved the idea of having Luke and Jane as those kind of "sibling figures" for Clem.
I did like Luke and Clementine's relationship, and Jane was another character that Clementine could bond with.
However, I don't think tha… moret Clementine saw these two as a brother/sister. Luke, maybe, but I don't think she knew or experienced enough with Jane to think of her as an older sister. Also, I don't know how much she can look up to her for being the cause of her "uncle" Kenny's death.
Though I do know you like Jane, and I don't want to say anything bad about her knowing full well that you like her, but I personally didn't like her character a whole heck of a lot, so I may be biased.
I'm pretty sure you meant to respond to me, but with that said, it was just that line at that moment that kinda made me question whether tha… moret was healthy or not. Yes, at the end of the day, Lee is the protagonist and one we have a lenient amount of say over, but the game already established that he had family issues that caused him to murder someone in a fit of rage, so it's entirely possible that he was using Clementine to fill that void from a certain interpretation.
I did like Luke and Clementine's relationship, and Jane was another character that Clementine could bond with.
However, I don't think tha… moret Clementine saw these two as a brother/sister. Luke, maybe, but I don't think she knew or experienced enough with Jane to think of her as an older sister. Also, I don't know how much she can look up to her for being the cause of her "uncle" Kenny's death.
Though I do know you like Jane, and I don't want to say anything bad about her knowing full well that you like her, but I personally didn't like her character a whole heck of a lot, so I may be biased.
I agree in that she should have a much, much closer bond with Omid and especially Christa than what was shown, and they completely dismissed how significant it would have been for a child to be with them for so long.
Not to mention the Frontier flashback indicates that Kenny took care of Clementine quite a lot longer than Christa, and especially Lee, but that is completely ignored too.
He has been with her through all of Season one
Which was only a few months, much less than the time period she spent with Omid and C… morehrista or her alone time after New Frontier.
and was able to teach her things she would need as she got older.
And what was that exactly? He taught her how to shoot a gun and to keep her hair short, and that's it. This Lee deification is really annoying. He was undoubtedly a good man, but he wasn't as great as people make him out to be. And before you say that Lee died for her: no, he didn't. Lee would have died anyway, he just chose to do something good with the rest of his life. Him being bitten was a stupid accident that, if anything, actually set him back from finding Clementine sooner. And no, that's not me blaming him for dying - I'm just stating the facts.
As you maybe aware because of the fact Clementine's real father was not around very much
Clementine's parents we… [view original content]
He has been with her through all of Season one
Which was only a few months, much less than the time period she spent with Omid and C… morehrista or her alone time after New Frontier.
and was able to teach her things she would need as she got older.
And what was that exactly? He taught her how to shoot a gun and to keep her hair short, and that's it. This Lee deification is really annoying. He was undoubtedly a good man, but he wasn't as great as people make him out to be. And before you say that Lee died for her: no, he didn't. Lee would have died anyway, he just chose to do something good with the rest of his life. Him being bitten was a stupid accident that, if anything, actually set him back from finding Clementine sooner. And no, that's not me blaming him for dying - I'm just stating the facts.
As you maybe aware because of the fact Clementine's real father was not around very much
Clementine's parents we… [view original content]
Well, he was a college professor of history and seemed like he would've made a great dad if he had kids like he wanted to. So I think calling him smart is an apt adjective, especially in comparison to Kenny.
There's no "him". Lee was the player character. It was you.
As for being smart, Kenny is the one who lived longest and took care of Clementine longest while taking care of things and coming up with plans in both seasons and between season 2 and 3. And as far as I recall, he was eventually proven right on pretty much everything.
Jane seemed smart too. But if you don't intervene she gets killed in a fight she starts for literally nothing. That makes her stupid imo. We should care about results. Not how it seems or sounds or looks. Leadership requires certain amount of intellect anyways...
Well, he was a college professor of history and seemed like he would've made a great dad if he had kids like he wanted to. So I think calling him smart is an apt adjective, especially in comparison to Kenny.
100% father/daughter relationship. Shit, think about how freaking young she was when this all started. Lee helped her grow up at about 1000x speed like all those bee movie memes. He taught her how to defend herself, use a gun, how to treat people, he taught her everything in life.
When she mentions Kenny to Jane and gets saddened we have to remember that at that point in time Kenny's death was still fairly recent which is why she is more visibly upset when he is referenced as opposed to Lee who as been dead for some time and is nothing more then a memory and she has had more time to grieve for him. I don't see it as her liking Kenny more then Lee, and besides Jane wouldn't even know who Lee was so it would really make sense for Clem to go on a feel conversation about him but it's your opinion.
If you kill him or leave him that can be true but even in those Jane endings she definetely cares more about Kenny than Lee although she pro… morebably doesn't consider him her father in those endings. Like I said before, in the Jane flashback if you try to name AJ's middle as Lee, she just casually says Lee and doesn't add anything else. If you go with Kenny, she becomes noticably sad and talks about how she and AJ wouldn't be alive without Kenny.
I think this happening in the Jane ending speaks volumes about Clemetine's view on Kenny even if you go against his wishes all the time and eventually kill him. On the Kenny ending it's pretty much obvious she started to consider him a father figure.
When she mentions Kenny to Jane and gets saddened we have to remember that at that point in time Kenny's death was still fairly recent which… more is why she is more visibly upset when he is referenced as opposed to Lee who as been dead for some time and is nothing more then a memory and she has had more time to grieve for him. I don't see it as her liking Kenny more then Lee, and besides Jane wouldn't even know who Lee was so it would really make sense for Clem to go on a feel conversation about him but it's your opinion.
Agreed, though I think an occasion or two is downplaying that those 4 months were spent strictly surviving, and she was his responsibility rather than a group effort, everybody had someone they were looking out for personally. Though Lee may have thought about her as an adoptive daughter, in her mind she still had parents, and her desire the entire time was to see reunite with them. The nature of the relationship may have resembled one between a father and daughter, but I don't think she would have considered Lee a father during that time because she was looking for her father.
I think after Lee was dying and she saw her parents dead, she most likely saw Lee as more of a fatherly figure, but more so than her actual one is quite an over exageration on my part.
Probably safe to say that it was a combination of both. You can see someone as a guardian/father figure, while still recognizing that they aren't actually your father.
... This is getting me curious as to how things might have turned out if Clementine's parents had lived to meet Lee.
Well, actually, Clementine knew her parents were dead after a while (she understood the subtext and implications, prefers you comfort her though), I'm sure she saw Lee as her surrogate father a bit before her parents' confirmed death, making it even harder knowing Lee died for her.
I just deleted it, I jumped the gun.
I think after Lee was dying and she saw her parents dead, she most likely saw Lee as more of a fatherly figure, but more so than her actual one is quite an over exageration on my part.
Comments
When he asks, she automatically says Ed. There is no choice.
Oh that's right, I forgot about that.
Which was only a few months, much less than the time period she spent with Omid and Christa or her alone time after New Frontier.
And what was that exactly? He taught her how to shoot a gun and to keep her hair short, and that's it. This Lee deification is really annoying. He was undoubtedly a good man, but he wasn't as great as people make him out to be. And before you say that Lee died for her: no, he didn't. Lee would have died anyway, he just chose to do something good with the rest of his life. Him being bitten was a stupid accident that, if anything, actually set him back from finding Clementine sooner. And no, that's not me blaming him for dying - I'm just stating the facts.
Clementine's parents were just taking a vacation in Season 1. There's nothing to suggest that Ed wasn't there for his daughter pre-apocalypse. Literally nothing.
Oh no, fuck him for dying a gruesome death and reanimating as a walking corpse.
Again: what are you basing this on other than pure speculation? Speculation that seems very unreasonable, I might add. Clementine obviously loved her parents and wanted to find them as soon as possible. There's still not a single thing in the game to suggest that Ed was a bad father.
People throw the term "father figure" around way too easily imo. Lee was just a nice guy taking care of a little girl that he met by chance. He did a pretty good job, and I'm sure that Clem was still devastated by the loss, but at the end of the day, Lee himself put it best:
He was at best a step father figure. Clementine loved her real dad very much and would never replace him. Lee did love Clementine like a daughter but wouldn't try to push that expectation onto a young girl who had lost so much.
Well said sir, fuck Vernon. Lee was never creepy when interacting with Clementine, he always made sure she was fed, watered, happy, etc. Even died and suffered immensely trying to save her.
I doubt he wanted to fill any void, it was that he stumbled upon her house looking for help and found her along then started taking care of her when she approached him, he never initiated anything it was spontaneous progression. Clementine was alone, her babysitter a walker and nobody to take care of her, that's so far the least thing in the universe that's creepy. Also the family was only his wife who had affair and slept with a senator, Lee never had any kids with his wife so there wasn't anything related to that.
If Clementine's parents were alive and knew what happened to Lee and the story of the whole thing,, he'd be awarded Medal of Honour on his grave or something. Not that she loved her parents more than Lee or vice versa, they all had their special place in her heart, too special to be labelled as "love more than" etc.
God damn it I miss Lee, you just had to remind me xD
I agree with everything you said other than Lee not teaching her anything other than being a barber and how to defend herself. I'm not trying to build him into some kind of god, but he really did make an impact on Clementine's character. Throughout the game, whatever choices you made either taught her to keep her humanity at any cost or put survival first. Clem grew as a person because of Lee, without him she would probably be dead or a different person entirely.
I completely agree, he wasn't creepy at all.
He was such a good guy : (
I actually don't remember this, maybe i didn't hear it.
Thanks for the addition though.
While I think Lee definitely looked after her like she was one of his own, the entire time she was with them she held out hope of being reunited with her real parents, and she pretty much loses Lee before she even has time to process/accept that they're dead. I think it does go past the point, for her, where she doesn't consider him simply a friend, she might not even be sure how to categorize their relationship. She does care deeply about him, and is aware of everything he did for her. Their time together was an especially dark one for her, her memories of him are tied to the loss of her family. I think it was in the first episode when she can tell Luke "The same thing that happens to everyone", she still has some of that childlike innocence about her but she's already starting to shut down by that point.
Clementine has had quite a few adult guardians/mentors. I personally label the, like this;
Lee : Surrogate Father
Kenny : Uncle figure
Luke : Big Brother
Jane : Big Sister
Javier: ??? - soon to be Clem's second brother if Telltale doesn't waste the opportunity.
Oh and I don't know, I don't think Luke and Jane were that important to Clem.
I think that would've depended on how you played, to be honest. Personally I would've loved the idea of having Luke and Jane as those kind of "sibling figures" for Clem.
I did like Luke and Clementine's relationship, and Jane was another character that Clementine could bond with.
However, I don't think that Clementine saw these two as a brother/sister. Luke, maybe, but I don't think she knew or experienced enough with Jane to think of her as an older sister. Also, I don't know how much she can look up to her for being the cause of her "uncle" Kenny's death.
Though I do know you like Jane, and I don't want to say anything bad about her knowing full well that you like her, but I personally didn't like her character a whole heck of a lot, so I may be biased.
Haha don't worry, bud - it doesn't bother me
Everyone's got their own opinions.
I don't think so on that last part.
Jane and Kenny are the kings of using kids to fill voids, not lee
Think it has more to do with Jane losing her own little sis, some people might see Jane as trying to replace her with Clementine
Kenny is a Shadow of Lee, though. So its possible Lee could've gotten to that point if he wasn't so smart.
Another self-proclaimed "smart" person
Any man who says I'm smart is not a smart man.
I agree in that she should have a much, much closer bond with Omid and especially Christa than what was shown, and they completely dismissed how significant it would have been for a child to be with them for so long.
Not to mention the Frontier flashback indicates that Kenny took care of Clementine quite a lot longer than Christa, and especially Lee, but that is completely ignored too.
You definitely saw a way different Lee than I did.
Well, he was a college professor of history and seemed like he would've made a great dad if he had kids like he wanted to. So I think calling him smart is an apt adjective, especially in comparison to Kenny.
Guardian/friend. Clem thought she still had a father until about 20 minutes before Lee died.
There's no "him". Lee was the player character. It was you.
As for being smart, Kenny is the one who lived longest and took care of Clementine longest while taking care of things and coming up with plans in both seasons and between season 2 and 3. And as far as I recall, he was eventually proven right on pretty much everything.
Jane seemed smart too. But if you don't intervene she gets killed in a fight she starts for literally nothing. That makes her stupid imo. We should care about results. Not how it seems or sounds or looks. Leadership requires certain amount of intellect anyways...
100% father/daughter relationship. Shit, think about how freaking young she was when this all started. Lee helped her grow up at about 1000x speed like all those bee movie memes. He taught her how to defend herself, use a gun, how to treat people, he taught her everything in life.
When she mentions Kenny to Jane and gets saddened we have to remember that at that point in time Kenny's death was still fairly recent which is why she is more visibly upset when he is referenced as opposed to Lee who as been dead for some time and is nothing more then a memory and she has had more time to grieve for him. I don't see it as her liking Kenny more then Lee, and besides Jane wouldn't even know who Lee was so it would really make sense for Clem to go on a feel conversation about him but it's your opinion.
Actually yeah, that about sums it up.
DaxProduction made this:
I believe it was a Father/Daughter relationship and Clementine saw him as a father figure.
That actually looks pretty damn good!
There's no way she saw Lee as more of a father than her actual father.
Yeah, four months of interacting every ocassion or two can't account for eight years of bonding.
Don't get me wrong, I think she deeply cared about Lee, loved him even, but more than her father? No way.
Agreed, though I think an occasion or two is downplaying that those 4 months were spent strictly surviving, and she was his responsibility rather than a group effort, everybody had someone they were looking out for personally. Though Lee may have thought about her as an adoptive daughter, in her mind she still had parents, and her desire the entire time was to see reunite with them. The nature of the relationship may have resembled one between a father and daughter, but I don't think she would have considered Lee a father during that time because she was looking for her father.
I just deleted it, I jumped the gun.
I think after Lee was dying and she saw her parents dead, she most likely saw Lee as more of a fatherly figure, but more so than her actual one is quite an over exageration on my part.
Probably safe to say that it was a combination of both. You can see someone as a guardian/father figure, while still recognizing that they aren't actually your father.
... This is getting me curious as to how things might have turned out if Clementine's parents had lived to meet Lee.
Well, actually, Clementine knew her parents were dead after a while (she understood the subtext and implications, prefers you comfort her though), I'm sure she saw Lee as her surrogate father a bit before her parents' confirmed death, making it even harder knowing Lee died for her.