You actually don't see the scene at all. . Only if you pinky swear will she show you the gun and ask how to use it.
Really? I didn't know that. Then again, @sialark either agreed to be her friend but didn't pinky swear or simply stayed silent, so maybe it just took a middle road or something.
After she turns round and starts crying it just cuts to the scene of her looking out of the window instead of Clem sitting with her.
What's that? Semi-decent scene transitions for choices! Interesting.
Why? Maybe because it's true? It is sad. Sad that Telltale have been a sinking ship for the last 4 years or so. They used to make great games pre 2013 but comparing the quality of all of their games after TWD S1 to those they made before it really shows how bad this new game is. The only thing worth any interest is the story
Oh no, I do agree! I was merely pointing out that your pessimistic statement is the truth and that you can get away with saying that anyway since you're among the older members from what I've seen.
Actually, I wanna say you do get the scene itself, she just doesn't ask you to show her how to do it. I'd have to check.
You actuall… morey don't see the scene at all. After she turns round and starts crying it just cuts to the scene of her looking out of the window instead of Clem sitting with her. Only if you pinky swear will she show you the gun and ask how to use it.
It's kinda sad that you can say that confidence.
Why? Maybe because it's true? It is sad. Sad that Telltale have been a sinking ship for the last 4 years or so. They used to make great games pre 2013 but comparing the quality of all of their games after TWD S1 to those they made before it really shows how bad this new game is. The only thing worth any interest is the story
Really? I didn't know that. Then again, @sialark either agreed to be her friend but didn't pinky swear or simply stayed silent, so maybe it just took a middle road or something.
Yeah. Couldn't really care either way to be fair.
What's that? Semi-decent scene transitions for choices! Interesting.
Pardon?
Oh no, I do agree! I was merely pointing out that your pessimistic statement is the truth and that you can get away with saying that anyway since you're among the older members from what I've seen.
Oh i see. Trust me, I don't want to hate the new game but there's just nothing good about it. If other people like it then good for them but as far as i am concerned they are being cheated by the price and quality of this game compared to previous games when TT knew what they were doing
You actually don't see the scene at all. . Only if you pinky swear will she show you the gun and ask how to use it.
Really? I didn't… more know that. Then again, @sialark either agreed to be her friend but didn't pinky swear or simply stayed silent, so maybe it just took a middle road or something.
After she turns round and starts crying it just cuts to the scene of her looking out of the window instead of Clem sitting with her.
What's that? Semi-decent scene transitions for choices! Interesting.
Why? Maybe because it's true? It is sad. Sad that Telltale have been a sinking ship for the last 4 years or so. They used to make great games pre 2013 but comparing the quality of all of their games after TWD S1 to those they made before it really shows how bad this new game is. The only thing worth any interest is the story
Oh no, I do agree! I was merely pointing out that your pessimistic statement is the truth and th… [view original content]
Really though man Kenny is really well written, I dont know where your pulling the badly written thing from. Hes one of the better written characters in the series. Not very likeable maybe to many but well written for sure
Or you can just admit you don't have any arguments to back yourself up?
Oh I do, I always have some sort of argument to back myself … moreup whether it's incorrect or not. It's just that not only am I dealing with intense depression and I hate typing out long paragraphs, but I also feel like this conversation is just gonna become more hostile as it goes on, especially with that rough "What the actual fuck" start.
meaning 'yo, this is insane, are you know what you're on about?'.
That's still immature though??? Like, I stated my opinion and didn't even say it was factual and you jumped on me like "Dude you're wrong you don't know what you're saying". It's pretty dickish. Granted, I could've put more into my argument, but trust me, I've been in more Kenny Vs Jane/Is Kenny Good style arguments than you can count. I'd rather not get into another, so I didn't wanna go into too much detail.
So much you had to resort to insults … [view original content]
I really like Kenny and I see good in him, you'll notice I didn't comment that I hated Kenny BECAUSE of how poorly written he is, but I said "I just think he's poorly written",
In numerous comments you havnt given 1 argument into why he is poorly written
I don't hate Kenny though, that's the difference. I really like Kenny and I see good in him, you'll notice I didn't comment that I hated Ken… moreny BECAUSE of how poorly written he is, but I said "I just think he's poorly written", meaning I don't hate him, I just don't like his writing.
As for Chloe, I can definitely agree with you there. Except for hating her, I didn't hate many of the characters in LiS because I relate to quite a few of the situations. I have my own Kate, Chloe, Victoria and David in my own life, so while they are hateable characters, I can't exactly hate them because I know where they're coming from.
Really now? Is it because you two don't get along?(That's probably a rhetorical/dumb question now that I think about it)
Pardon?
There are some scenes where its blatantly obvious that the cuts of certain scenes were recorded/made separately from the ones that happen because of your choice, leading to awkward pauses and lines/moments that contradict if not outright ignore your choice. Take the scene where you apologize to Arvo on the road, for instance.[There's a review that uses that exact example, so yes I'm being lazy.] If that scene plays out the way you say it does, having Sarah turn away from Clementine before spotting Carver is a somewhat clever (but still lazy depending on how its done) transition.
Oh i see. Trust me, I don't want to hate the new game but there's just nothing good about it. If other people like it then good for them but as far as i am concerned they are being cheated by the price and quality of this game compared to previous games when TT knew what they were doing
Yeah, I don't think anyone does. As you probably know already, the second of Season 2 kinda broke me to the point that when they started showing screenshots, teaser vids, and game descriptions, any outright interest I had just went away eventually, to the point that I went into this with the bar set pretty damn low. And I ended up enjoying the first episode well enough because of that!
Really? I didn't know that. Then again, @sialark either agreed to be her friend but didn't pinky swear or simply stayed silent, so maybe it … morejust took a middle road or something.
Yeah. Couldn't really care either way to be fair.
What's that? Semi-decent scene transitions for choices! Interesting.
Pardon?
Oh no, I do agree! I was merely pointing out that your pessimistic statement is the truth and that you can get away with saying that anyway since you're among the older members from what I've seen.
Oh i see. Trust me, I don't want to hate the new game but there's just nothing good about it. If other people like it then good for them but as far as i am concerned they are being cheated by the price and quality of this game compared to previous games when TT knew what they were doing
I miss characters like Kenny and Lilly. They were complex characters with intense flaws, and bonds/opinions of them developed very naturally. I actually think Telltale rid themselves of Lilly entirely too soon, and attempted to recreate that magically Kenny/Lilly conflict through Jane's introduction with mixed results. I think that what a lot of us continue to nostalgically hold to about these characters were their morally grey human nature, and that the more recent Walking Dead seasons developed by Telltale have treated characters more as cannon fodder than developed arcs.
Whether you loved them or hated them, agreed with them or not, we had to deal with them. If Lilly/Larry or Kenny were upset by your decisions, that resentment remained. It had weight. It altered how you viewed them. We don't really spend that kind of time with characters like that in later seasons, so in some it's developed an apathetic detachment.
I miss characters like Kenny and Lilly. They were complex characters with intense flaws, and bonds/opinions of them developed very naturally… more. I actually think Telltale rid themselves of Lilly entirely too soon, and attempted to recreate that magically Kenny/Lilly conflict through Jane's introduction with mixed results. I think that what a lot of us continue to nostalgically hold to about these characters were their morally grey human nature, and that the more recent Walking Dead seasons developed by Telltale have treated characters more as cannon fodder than developed arcs.
Whether you loved them or hated them, agreed with them or not, we had to deal with them. If Lilly/Larry or Kenny were upset by your decisions, that resentment remained. It had weight. It altered how you viewed them. We don't really spend that kind of time with characters like that in later seasons, so in some it's developed an apathetic detachment.
Really now? Is it because you two don't get along?(That's probably a rhetorical/dumb question now that I think about it)
When i said I didn't care really, I wasn't referring to sialark, i was saying I'm not bothered about Clem's friendship with Sarah or not. But now that you mention it, i really despise how sialark talks about Kenny but I'm sure besides that she's an ok person. Who knows what we have in common.
Couldn't really care either way to be fair.
Really now? Is it because you two don't get along?(That's probably a rhetorical/dumb que… morestion now that I think about it)
Pardon?
There are some scenes where its blatantly obvious that the cuts of certain scenes were recorded/made separately from the ones that happen because of your choice, leading to awkward pauses and lines/moments that contradict if not outright ignore your choice. Take the scene where you apologize to Arvo on the road, for instance.[There's a review that uses that exact example, so yes I'm being lazy.] If that scene plays out the way you say it does, having Sarah turn away from Clementine before spotting Carver is a somewhat clever (but still lazy depending on how its done) transition.
Oh i see. Trust me, I don't want to hate the new game but there's just nothing good about it. If other people like it then good for them but as far as i am concerned the… [view original content]
When i said I didn't care really, I wasn't referring to sialark, i was saying I'm not bothered about Clem's friendship with Sarah or not.
...Oh.
But now that you mention it, i really despise how sialark talks about Kenny but I'm sure besides that she's an ok person. Who knows what we have in common.
Maybe I'll check out her New Frontier playthrough and find out she hates the flashbacks too.:
Really now? Is it because you two don't get along?(That's probably a rhetorical/dumb question now that I think about it)
When i said… more I didn't care really, I wasn't referring to sialark, i was saying I'm not bothered about Clem's friendship with Sarah or not. But now that you mention it, i really despise how sialark talks about Kenny but I'm sure besides that she's an ok person. Who knows what we have in common.
Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm writing kind of a huge review and analysis of The Walking Dead, I'll likely write an entire section about Kenny and then give my thoughts. So if you can wait like... a month maybe? Then I can actually present an argument without sitting at my PC for 7 hours trying to give one and make sure what I say isn't objectively incorrect, because I've gotten some facts wrong when writing an argument like this before, granted they were mostly minor facts, but still things I need to be considerate about.
I apologize if my lack of arguments for why I feel the way I do have upset you at all, but I'm not going to spent 7 hours sitting at my PC writing an in depth analysis of Kenny's character and how I feel about him when 1: I've got a lot of shit to do at the moment. 2: I'm horribly depressed. And 3: Kenny fanboys/girls/attack helicopters are just gonna give me shit no matter what I write. Plus I'd rather spend any time writing about Kenny on the review I'm working on so I can fit it with the rest of the script instead of writing 2 different character analysis'... analysises? analysisi? Fuck it. I'm not going to write 2 different character studies on the same character.
As soon as my review is done you'll be the first to hear my Kenny argument, I promise. But right now it's just something I really don't want to do.
I really like Kenny and I see good in him, you'll notice I didn't comment that I hated Kenny BECAUSE of how poorly written he is, but I said… more "I just think he's poorly written",
In numerous comments you havnt given 1 argument into why he is poorly written
Just because he's one of the better written characters doesn't mean his writing is amazing. A huge amount of the characters in the Walking Dead are very poorly written, so him being better written out of them all doesn't necessarily make him well written, just more competently written in comparison.
Really though man Kenny is really well written, I dont know where your pulling the badly written thing from. Hes one of the better written characters in the series. Not very likeable maybe to many but well written for sure
Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm writing kind of a huge review and analysis of The Walking Dead, I'll likely write an entire section about Ke… morenny and then give my thoughts. So if you can wait like... a month maybe? Then I can actually present an argument without sitting at my PC for 7 hours trying to give one and make sure what I say isn't objectively incorrect, because I've gotten some facts wrong when writing an argument like this before, granted they were mostly minor facts, but still things I need to be considerate about.
I apologize if my lack of arguments for why I feel the way I do have upset you at all, but I'm not going to spent 7 hours sitting at my PC writing an in depth analysis of Kenny's character and how I feel about him when 1: I've got a lot of shit to do at the moment. 2: I'm horribly depressed. And 3: Kenny fanboys/girls/attack helicopters are just gonna give me shit no matter what I write. Plus I'd rather spend any time w… [view original content]
Please don't be sorry. I genuinely hate it when people give me support like that and feel bad for me, because it makes me hate myself 10 times more than I already do. I hardly deserve friends, much less emotional support from good people. Thanks for the kind wishes but don't feel sorry for me please.
Well, it shouldn't hate yourself over this. Everyone deserves to have people who care about them. I'm only saying I can relate. Ive had more than a few depressed moments myself so I get it. You just have to do what you need to do to care for yourself.
Please don't be sorry. I genuinely hate it when people give me support like that and feel bad for me, because it makes me hate myself 10 tim… morees more than I already do. I hardly deserve friends, much less emotional support from good people. Thanks for the kind wishes but don't feel sorry for me please.
Actually, if you were quick enough, you'd be able to see Larry beginning to breath again. Ergo, he was alive. Also, turning times may vary but HOWEVER, in all of the Walking Dead realms (World War Z is a zombie movie but not Walking Dead) it makes the reanimation times logical by leaving enough time for a heart to fully stop beating and the virus to activate.
ALSO; you are wrong as well. A heart attack does not mean instant death. A heart attack only means that an artery is blocked and blood cannot flow to the heart. The more that someone is left untreated, the worse it can get. The heart DOES NOT stop pumping during a heart attack! You're probably thinking of Cardiac Arrest (which can happen due to a heart attack, but I don't know how common that is) in which the heart stops beating.
Murdered Larry (he was alive; you don't instantly die during a heart attack and I should know cuz people can be awake when having a heart at… moretack)
Wrong wrong wrong!!! People can most certainly die immediately from a heart attack. Nurse or doctor are you? Sorry but the fact of that scene is, Larry was either dead or still alive and it is something we will never know for certain because Telltale deliberately left it ambiguous to make our own opinions
Oh, but don't you see? He's a Russian disabled teenage liability (even though he's never actually called that) who still had standards, so clearly he deserves to be abused because Carver and Jane said so.
Actually, if you were quick enough, you'd be able to see Larry beginning to breath again. Ergo, he was alive. Also, turning times may vary but HOWEVER, in all of the Walking Dead realms (World War Z is a zombie movie but not Walking Dead) it makes the reanimation times logical by leaving enough time for a heart to fully stop beating and the virus to activate.
Actually that is debatable, again something Telltale made ambiguous for fans and i would argue that yes he could have been beginning to breathe but he also could have been reanimating or it could have been a twitch the body does when it begins to shut down. There is no definite proof he was alive or dead and that is a fact.
ALSO; you are wrong as well. A heart attack does not mean instant death. A heart attack only means that an artery is blocked and blood cannot flow to the heart. The more that someone is left untreated, the worse it can get. The heart DOES NOT stop pumping during a heart attack! You're probably thinking of Cardiac Arrest (which can happen due to a heart attack, but I don't know how common that is) in which the heart stops beating.
I didn't specifically say people who have heart attacks immediately die because yes they can survive from them but in your original post you made it sound like you can't instantly die from one but that is false because people can immediately drop dead from a heart attack. Larry stopped breathing and there was no real way to know for certain if he was alive or dead.
Im not going to argue anyway. I have my views on the meat locker scene just as you do
Actually, if you were quick enough, you'd be able to see Larry beginning to breath again. Ergo, he was alive. Also, turning times may vary b… moreut HOWEVER, in all of the Walking Dead realms (World War Z is a zombie movie but not Walking Dead) it makes the reanimation times logical by leaving enough time for a heart to fully stop beating and the virus to activate.
ALSO; you are wrong as well. A heart attack does not mean instant death. A heart attack only means that an artery is blocked and blood cannot flow to the heart. The more that someone is left untreated, the worse it can get. The heart DOES NOT stop pumping during a heart attack! You're probably thinking of Cardiac Arrest (which can happen due to a heart attack, but I don't know how common that is) in which the heart stops beating.
Laughable given that Lee also kills just as many (more determinantely in fact) but oh no, we can't ever hate dear old Lee can we for the kills he did. Anyway, that's not the reason for some people hating Kenny. Some perhaps give this as the only reason but if so it's pathetic that given all the people he did actually kill was in the best interests of everyone else in the group (Larry, Johnny, the Russians, Carver for example) but of course they'll never admit this and just see him as the villain boo hoo.
It also makes me laugh that you or others can hate someone who kills people given that they all live in a zombie apocalypse where killing is necessary to survive, alive or dead.
I would beat the ever loving hell out of a teenager who brought his three armed companions with him. The minute his associates tried to kill me by shooting at me he lost all right to forgiveness or kindness. Doesn't matter if he wasn't the one shooting the guns, he was still involved in the situation.
Are you serious?! Arvo brought 3 people with him who were armed and tried to kill them a few minutes earlier. Arvo deserves sympathy because he has a bum leg and wasn't the one shooting the guns? No. He brought the situation upon himself the minute his associates tried to kill them.
So you said. And more people should be disturbed by a grown man beating up a boy who had zero chance of defending himself. Yeah, that kind of bullying behavior I do consider awful.
It also makes me laugh that you or others can hate someone who kills people given that they all live in a zombie apocalypse where killing is necessary to survive, alive or dead.
He was trying to save his son, and was concerned with getting him to safety. Sure, maybe he should've tried more, but hey, he was panicking and as we see later, he genuinely feels guilt for it even though it wasn't really his fault.
Larry-
He was trying to save the rest of those that were actually alive, unlike Larry. Now, maybe there was a possibility Larry was alive, but from Kenny's point of view, he was dead and it was the safest bet to make sure Larry didn't come back.
Danny-
Well, it's more of a Lee kill, but either way, it's Danny. Ya know, Danny the cannibal, Danny the paedophile? Remember that fella?
Beatrice-
Fair enough, really. He was a dick in that scene. But, in fairness, she was bitten and once again, he was thinking about those that actually had the chance of living, so using her as a distraction, while cruel, would benefit the group greatly.
Duck-
Yeah, because killing his son out of pure mercy is clearly an unspeakably evil act of murder...
Fivel-
A zombie kill, which was technically done of out of a sense of mercy.
Ben-
Kenny never attempts to kill Ben. Sure, he encourages Lee to drop him, but Ben was responsible for the deaths of his family. He learns the errors of his way later on, anyhow, even though he has pretty darn good reasons for hating Ben, and even goes so far as to actually risk his own life to save Ben.
Johnny-
A bandit working for Carver who was holding everyone hostage? Fairly understandable from my point of view, considering the circumstances.
Walter-
Last time I checked Carver shot him. Should Kenny have been less reckless in his actions during the standoff? Yeah, he should've been, but he was attempting to kill Carver and it was Carver, who in turn, killed Walter. Once again, Kenny's intentions were good.
Alvin-
Same reasons as above.
Carver-
He killed a tyrannical, murderous lunatic, who could've caused him brain damage and destroyed his left (or right?) eye, as well as forcing everyone to stay and work as slaves in his camp. Definitely justified killing, though he did go a bit brutal. But karma's a bitch, in fairness.
Sarita-
Another mercy kill.
Rebecca-
Another zombie kill.
Natasha-
Another zombie kill, as well as her originally having been a member of a group trying to kill him and the others.
Buricko-
Self defence.
Vitali-
Self defence.
Jane-
She tricked him into assuming AJ had died, and then engaged in a physical fight with him even though she could've called it off by admitting the truth.
Jane's Unborn Child-
He never knew she was pregnant, nor did she, for that matter. If anyone's to be responsible for such, it's Jane and her recklessly riding Luke and risking having a baby in the first place.
So, yeah, great reasons for hating Kenny. Top class. /s
And yes, before anyone asks, I did have a lot of time on my hands...
Fair enough, really. He was a dick in that scene. But, in fairness, she was bitten and once again, he was thinking about those that actually had the chance of living, so using her as a distraction, while cruel, would benefit the group greatly.
I didn't count her on my tally for exactl that reason: killing her would've been the merciful thing to do, but that's not what he did, so I just counted it as a 0.
Ben-
Kenny never attempts to kill Ben. Sure, he encourages Lee to drop him, but Ben was responsible for the deaths of his family. He learns the errors of his way later on, anyhow, even though he has pretty darn good reasons for hating Ben, and even goes so far as to actually risk his own life to save Ben
Yeah, that's another weird one since he was either being a sketchy bastard or going outta his way to save him, so I didn't bother to count it.
Natasha-
Another zombie kill, as well as her originally having been a member of a group trying to kill him and the others.
Actually, unless a majority of us missed something, he only killed her. Clementine had to be the one to put her down since he was holding Arvo hostage at the time and she ignored them in favor of going after AJ.
Jane's Unborn Child-
He never knew she was pregnant, nor did she, for that matter. If anyone's to be responsible for such, it's Jane and her recklessly ridding Luke and risking having a baby in the first place.
Yeah, I think a number of us saw that coming ahead of time. I honestly don't know/care how to dish out the blame on that one, so I just counted it anyway and sent a bonus to Jane's tally.
Shawn-
He was trying to save his son, and was concerned with getting him to safety. Sure, maybe he should've tried more, but hey, he… more was panicking and as we see later, he genuinely feels guilt for it even though it wasn't really his fault.
Larry-
He was trying to save the rest of those that were actually alive, unlike Larry. Now, maybe there was a possibility Larry was alive, but from Kenny's point of view, he was dead and it was the safest bet to make sure Larry didn't come back.
Danny-
Well, it's more of a Lee kill, but either way, it's Danny. Ya know, Danny the cannibal, Danny the paedophile? Remember that fella?
Beatrice-
Fair enough, really. He was a dick in that scene. But, in fairness, she was bitten and once again, he was thinking about those that actually had the chance of living, so using her as a distraction, while cruel, would benefit the group greatly.
Duck-
Yeah, be… [view original content]
Shawn-
He was trying to save his son, and was concerned with getting him to safety. Sure, maybe he should've tried more, but hey, he… more was panicking and as we see later, he genuinely feels guilt for it even though it wasn't really his fault.
Larry-
He was trying to save the rest of those that were actually alive, unlike Larry. Now, maybe there was a possibility Larry was alive, but from Kenny's point of view, he was dead and it was the safest bet to make sure Larry didn't come back.
Danny-
Well, it's more of a Lee kill, but either way, it's Danny. Ya know, Danny the cannibal, Danny the paedophile? Remember that fella?
Beatrice-
Fair enough, really. He was a dick in that scene. But, in fairness, she was bitten and once again, he was thinking about those that actually had the chance of living, so using her as a distraction, while cruel, would benefit the group greatly.
Duck-
Yeah, be… [view original content]
You're entitled to your opinion. It seems obvious to me that Kenny is one of the better written characters in the game.
Just out of interest, who do you consider a well-written character?
Just because he's one of the better written characters doesn't mean his writing is amazing. A huge amount of the characters in the Walking D… moreead are very poorly written, so him being better written out of them all doesn't necessarily make him well written, just more competently written in comparison.
I tend to see the good qualities in characters first and noticed his (albeit determinant) loyalty to Lee and devotion to his family.
Other people saw his bad qualities and noticed his stubbornness, being prone to anger and (again, determinant) jerkass behavior to Lee.
When they brought him back for season 2, he had hardened up a bit and wasn't the exact same Kenny we knew from season 1. For people that already didn't like him, a mixture of this and being a spotlight hog (which I personally loved, but I'll admit I'm biased) amplified their hatred of him even more. Some people even thought he was turning into a monster. I wouldn't say that, but that's an argument for another time.
For most people, I'd say the turning point for whether they'll like Kenny or not is what they decided to do with Larry. This is really when Kenny will decide if he considers Lee a friend or will start being an ass to him, and when his bad qualities will start to overshadow his good qualities for people who don't like him.
Kenny is by far my favorite character in the series, but I can totally understand why people wouldn't feel the same way.
Good post @Akimbo_Slice. I have always said that there is so much more to his character than what some people hate him for which is because they hold a grudge due to his sometimes horrible treatment of Lee and others which in my opinion is just him being honest, even if it comes across as being an asshole. He's never afraid to tell you what he thinks, things that people don't want to hear and that has my respect. We all have our reasons
Well, he's a complex character.
I tend to see the good qualities in characters first and noticed his (albeit determinant) loyalty to Lee … moreand devotion to his family.
Other people saw his bad qualities and noticed his stubbornness, being prone to anger and (again, determinant) jerkass behavior to Lee.
When they brought him back for season 2, he had hardened up a bit and wasn't the exact same Kenny we knew from season 1. For people that already didn't like him, a mixture of this and being a spotlight hog (which I personally loved, but I'll admit I'm biased) amplified their hatred of him even more. Some people even thought he was turning into a monster. I wouldn't say that, but that's an argument for another time.
For most people, I'd say the turning point for whether they'll like Kenny or not is what they decided to do with Larry. This is really when Kenny will decide if he considers Lee a friend or will start being an ass to him, an… [view original content]
Comments
Nevermind
I'm beginning to like Telltale for killing Kenny because I have seen these discussions way to much but that would mean I did something bad
Really? I didn't know that. Then again, @sialark either agreed to be her friend but didn't pinky swear or simply stayed silent, so maybe it just took a middle road or something.
What's that? Semi-decent scene transitions for choices! Interesting.
Oh no, I do agree! I was merely pointing out that your pessimistic statement is the truth and that you can get away with saying that anyway since you're among the older members from what I've seen.
Same.
Yeah. Couldn't really care either way to be fair.
Pardon?
Oh i see. Trust me, I don't want to hate the new game but there's just nothing good about it. If other people like it then good for them but as far as i am concerned they are being cheated by the price and quality of this game compared to previous games when TT knew what they were doing
Really though man Kenny is really well written, I dont know where your pulling the badly written thing from. Hes one of the better written characters in the series. Not very likeable maybe to many but well written for sure
In numerous comments you havnt given 1 argument into why he is poorly written
Really now? Is it because you two don't get along?(That's probably a rhetorical/dumb question now that I think about it)
There are some scenes where its blatantly obvious that the cuts of certain scenes were recorded/made separately from the ones that happen because of your choice, leading to awkward pauses and lines/moments that contradict if not outright ignore your choice. Take the scene where you apologize to Arvo on the road, for instance.[There's a review that uses that exact example, so yes I'm being lazy.] If that scene plays out the way you say it does, having Sarah turn away from Clementine before spotting Carver is a somewhat clever (but still lazy depending on how its done) transition.
Yeah, I don't think anyone does. As you probably know already, the second of Season 2 kinda broke me to the point that when they started showing screenshots, teaser vids, and game descriptions, any outright interest I had just went away eventually, to the point that I went into this with the bar set pretty damn low. And I ended up enjoying the first episode well enough because of that!
I thought she was Belgian?
I miss characters like Kenny and Lilly. They were complex characters with intense flaws, and bonds/opinions of them developed very naturally. I actually think Telltale rid themselves of Lilly entirely too soon, and attempted to recreate that magically Kenny/Lilly conflict through Jane's introduction with mixed results. I think that what a lot of us continue to nostalgically hold to about these characters were their morally grey human nature, and that the more recent Walking Dead seasons developed by Telltale have treated characters more as cannon fodder than developed arcs.
Whether you loved them or hated them, agreed with them or not, we had to deal with them. If Lilly/Larry or Kenny were upset by your decisions, that resentment remained. It had weight. It altered how you viewed them. We don't really spend that kind of time with characters like that in later seasons, so in some it's developed an apathetic detachment.
Agreed. Friggin A agreed.
When i said I didn't care really, I wasn't referring to sialark, i was saying I'm not bothered about Clem's friendship with Sarah or not. But now that you mention it, i really despise how sialark talks about Kenny but I'm sure besides that she's an ok person. Who knows what we have in common.
...Oh.
Maybe I'll check out her New Frontier playthrough and find out she hates the flashbacks too.:
Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm writing kind of a huge review and analysis of The Walking Dead, I'll likely write an entire section about Kenny and then give my thoughts. So if you can wait like... a month maybe? Then I can actually present an argument without sitting at my PC for 7 hours trying to give one and make sure what I say isn't objectively incorrect, because I've gotten some facts wrong when writing an argument like this before, granted they were mostly minor facts, but still things I need to be considerate about.
I apologize if my lack of arguments for why I feel the way I do have upset you at all, but I'm not going to spent 7 hours sitting at my PC writing an in depth analysis of Kenny's character and how I feel about him when 1: I've got a lot of shit to do at the moment. 2: I'm horribly depressed. And 3: Kenny fanboys/girls/attack helicopters are just gonna give me shit no matter what I write. Plus I'd rather spend any time writing about Kenny on the review I'm working on so I can fit it with the rest of the script instead of writing 2 different character analysis'... analysises? analysisi? Fuck it. I'm not going to write 2 different character studies on the same character.
As soon as my review is done you'll be the first to hear my Kenny argument, I promise. But right now it's just something I really don't want to do.
Just because he's one of the better written characters doesn't mean his writing is amazing. A huge amount of the characters in the Walking Dead are very poorly written, so him being better written out of them all doesn't necessarily make him well written, just more competently written in comparison.
Sorry you're so depressed, Clemy. Take care of yourself.
Please don't be sorry. I genuinely hate it when people give me support like that and feel bad for me, because it makes me hate myself 10 times more than I already do. I hardly deserve friends, much less emotional support from good people. Thanks for the kind wishes but don't feel sorry for me please.
Well, it shouldn't hate yourself over this. Everyone deserves to have people who care about them. I'm only saying I can relate. Ive had more than a few depressed moments myself so I get it. You just have to do what you need to do to care for yourself.
You know what, given how Season 2's hype train apparently went, I'm surprised there hasn't been any rival threads about Lilly, Luke, or Jane yet.
Actually, if you were quick enough, you'd be able to see Larry beginning to breath again. Ergo, he was alive. Also, turning times may vary but HOWEVER, in all of the Walking Dead realms (World War Z is a zombie movie but not Walking Dead) it makes the reanimation times logical by leaving enough time for a heart to fully stop beating and the virus to activate.
ALSO; you are wrong as well. A heart attack does not mean instant death. A heart attack only means that an artery is blocked and blood cannot flow to the heart. The more that someone is left untreated, the worse it can get. The heart DOES NOT stop pumping during a heart attack! You're probably thinking of Cardiac Arrest (which can happen due to a heart attack, but I don't know how common that is) in which the heart stops beating.
So you're saying that in real life you would beat up a disabled teenager who couldn't even defend himself?
Oh, but don't you see? He's a Russian disabled teenage liability (even though he's never actually called that) who still had standards, so clearly he deserves to be abused because Carver and Jane said so.
Actually that is debatable, again something Telltale made ambiguous for fans and i would argue that yes he could have been beginning to breathe but he also could have been reanimating or it could have been a twitch the body does when it begins to shut down. There is no definite proof he was alive or dead and that is a fact.
I didn't specifically say people who have heart attacks immediately die because yes they can survive from them but in your original post you made it sound like you can't instantly die from one but that is false because people can immediately drop dead from a heart attack. Larry stopped breathing and there was no real way to know for certain if he was alive or dead.
Im not going to argue anyway. I have my views on the meat locker scene just as you do
gee golly gosh i can't think of one hecking reason as to why people would hate kenny
Laughable given that Lee also kills just as many (more determinantely in fact) but oh no, we can't ever hate dear old Lee can we for the kills he did. Anyway, that's not the reason for some people hating Kenny. Some perhaps give this as the only reason but if so it's pathetic that given all the people he did actually kill was in the best interests of everyone else in the group (Larry, Johnny, the Russians, Carver for example) but of course they'll never admit this and just see him as the villain boo hoo.
It also makes me laugh that you or others can hate someone who kills people given that they all live in a zombie apocalypse where killing is necessary to survive, alive or dead.
I would beat the ever loving hell out of a teenager who brought his three armed companions with him. The minute his associates tried to kill me by shooting at me he lost all right to forgiveness or kindness. Doesn't matter if he wasn't the one shooting the guns, he was still involved in the situation.
Are you serious?! Arvo brought 3 people with him who were armed and tried to kill them a few minutes earlier. Arvo deserves sympathy because he has a bum leg and wasn't the one shooting the guns? No. He brought the situation upon himself the minute his associates tried to kill them.
What does it prove?
Exactly!!!
Yep!
He was trying to save his son, and was concerned with getting him to safety. Sure, maybe he should've tried more, but hey, he was panicking and as we see later, he genuinely feels guilt for it even though it wasn't really his fault.
He was trying to save the rest of those that were actually alive, unlike Larry. Now, maybe there was a possibility Larry was alive, but from Kenny's point of view, he was dead and it was the safest bet to make sure Larry didn't come back.
Well, it's more of a Lee kill, but either way, it's Danny. Ya know, Danny the cannibal, Danny the paedophile? Remember that fella?
Fair enough, really. He was a dick in that scene. But, in fairness, she was bitten and once again, he was thinking about those that actually had the chance of living, so using her as a distraction, while cruel, would benefit the group greatly.
Yeah, because killing his son out of pure mercy is clearly an unspeakably evil act of murder...
A zombie kill, which was technically done of out of a sense of mercy.
Kenny never attempts to kill Ben. Sure, he encourages Lee to drop him, but Ben was responsible for the deaths of his family. He learns the errors of his way later on, anyhow, even though he has pretty darn good reasons for hating Ben, and even goes so far as to actually risk his own life to save Ben.
A bandit working for Carver who was holding everyone hostage? Fairly understandable from my point of view, considering the circumstances.
Last time I checked Carver shot him. Should Kenny have been less reckless in his actions during the standoff? Yeah, he should've been, but he was attempting to kill Carver and it was Carver, who in turn, killed Walter. Once again, Kenny's intentions were good.
Same reasons as above.
He killed a tyrannical, murderous lunatic, who could've caused him brain damage and destroyed his left (or right?) eye, as well as forcing everyone to stay and work as slaves in his camp. Definitely justified killing, though he did go a bit brutal. But karma's a bitch, in fairness.
Another mercy kill.
Another zombie kill.
Another zombie kill, as well as her originally having been a member of a group trying to kill him and the others.
Self defence.
Self defence.
She tricked him into assuming AJ had died, and then engaged in a physical fight with him even though she could've called it off by admitting the truth.
He never knew she was pregnant, nor did she, for that matter. If anyone's to be responsible for such, it's Jane and her recklessly riding Luke and risking having a baby in the first place.
So, yeah, great reasons for hating Kenny. Top class. /s
And yes, before anyone asks, I did have a lot of time on my hands...
Holy shit, that's a long list! With that said, he only has 5-7 actual kills on his plate. Not sure what think about that, actually.
Clementine can have a total of 8 direct kills over the course of 12 episodes? Huh.
I didn't count her on my tally for exactl that reason: killing her would've been the merciful thing to do, but that's not what he did, so I just counted it as a 0.
Yeah, that's another weird one since he was either being a sketchy bastard or going outta his way to save him, so I didn't bother to count it.
Actually, unless a majority of us missed something, he only killed her. Clementine had to be the one to put her down since he was holding Arvo hostage at the time and she ignored them in favor of going after AJ.
Yeah, I think a number of us saw that coming ahead of time. I honestly don't know/care how to dish out the blame on that one, so I just counted it anyway and sent a bonus to Jane's tally.
Thank you!!! @OneWayNoWay, you listed pretty much what i couldn't be bothered listing
You're entitled to your opinion. It seems obvious to me that Kenny is one of the better written characters in the game.
Just out of interest, who do you consider a well-written character?
Well, he's a complex character.
I tend to see the good qualities in characters first and noticed his (albeit determinant) loyalty to Lee and devotion to his family.
Other people saw his bad qualities and noticed his stubbornness, being prone to anger and (again, determinant) jerkass behavior to Lee.
When they brought him back for season 2, he had hardened up a bit and wasn't the exact same Kenny we knew from season 1. For people that already didn't like him, a mixture of this and being a spotlight hog (which I personally loved, but I'll admit I'm biased) amplified their hatred of him even more. Some people even thought he was turning into a monster. I wouldn't say that, but that's an argument for another time.
For most people, I'd say the turning point for whether they'll like Kenny or not is what they decided to do with Larry. This is really when Kenny will decide if he considers Lee a friend or will start being an ass to him, and when his bad qualities will start to overshadow his good qualities for people who don't like him.
Kenny is by far my favorite character in the series, but I can totally understand why people wouldn't feel the same way.
Good post @Akimbo_Slice. I have always said that there is so much more to his character than what some people hate him for which is because they hold a grudge due to his sometimes horrible treatment of Lee and others which in my opinion is just him being honest, even if it comes across as being an asshole. He's never afraid to tell you what he thinks, things that people don't want to hear and that has my respect. We all have our reasons