Why does everybody like him so much?
Before I get flamed by 90% of the people on this forum, it's just a question I've wanted to ask for a while and I'd like to see the opinions and responses that are expressed to me.
Now having said that... why does everybody like Kenny so much? I understand him and lee (depending on the S1 choices the player makes) had a good relationship at the start of everything, but when it came to S2 when Kenny was re-introduced to the second installment of telltales 'The Walking Dead', everybody freaked out and acted like Kenny and Clem (because Clementine is the playable and main character in S2) were the bestest of friends, when in reality they barely had a conversation in the first game. It also really confused me as to why he's so looked up too, in my opinion he's a rude middle aged man who at times acts like a child, he looked down upon Lee in the first season if Lee ever swore in front of Clementine and creticted him for it (in Kenny's defence she was 8-9 at the time I know), but then in S2 if you chop Sarita's arm off to attempt to stop her turning, he says the most awful and hurtful things to Clem and it's heartbreaking, to hear him say such things to an 11 year old, blaming her for Saritas death and calling her "a stupid fucking kid" when all she did was try to help. Then later on at the meeting spot continued to say some extremely horrific things to Clementine, (I can't remember everything he said, but I definitely remember it's straight fucked up okay) even an adult shouldn't have to take that shit from a broken asshole who thinks he knows it all and can go barking orders and not listen to anybody else, that's another thing, he treats all the other adults (usually male, expect Jane) like absolute crap. He spends most his time having ago at somebody, demanding orders or mopping around like a toddler, and I understand he just lost 'his girl Sarita' but everybody's lost family and partners, he doesn't stop to consider their feelings too. And all his anger about Saritas death circles back to Clementine. He's no kind of role model, in any way shape or form.
Furthermore, I feel Jane doesn't get a lot of love from the community and to be fair I understand why that is. Jane is an emotionally unstable women that carries heavy demons around with her, having said that, on the surface I find she does extremely well to hide the hurt she's going through, and I also feel that's because she understands that everybody else is grieving about loosing loved ones as well (I really like this about her), however I feel Janes depression seeps much deeper than just loosing loved ones, which inevitably results in her heartbreaking death. When it comes to Kenny, I believe he doesn't carry demons around with him to the extent like Jane does, however he's very open with his emotions and isn't afraid to take it out on the group and go on a tangent like a child. Of course he's upset about what's happened to him but is that really a valid excuse? By S3 Clementine has lost everyone she's ever known... TWICE! Yet we have seen no sign of her being an absolute psychotic bitch to Javi, or anybody else. Kenny was psychotic and I don't believe the excuse of 'him losing his family' is a valid response to his behaviour, sorry.
I think the final straw for me to really not like Kenny was the final scene of S2. The fight in the truck stop place all starts because of him overreacting. I know Jane hid Aj to get a reaction from him to show clem how psychotic he really is, it's the main reason everybody hates Jane, but the fight does start because of Kenny. If Jane walked there without Aj he could of waited after he'd asked where Aj was to get a response from her, but no. His crazy ass goes sprinting into the snow storm in attempt to find him, when he returns he could of asked Jane yet again where Aj is calmly, exclaiming that he didn't see him, this could of easily prevented the fight, but instead he thinks violence straight away and plans to attack Jane instantly, barging Clem out of the way, may I add. After Jane gets the better of him by successfully protecting herself and moving toward the other glass door, she proceeds to tell him not to attack her again, with that she puts her knife away; she could of easily stabbed him there and then, she had the weapon and he didn't, but no she proceeds to take the none violent option and put her weapon away. As soon as it's not in her hand he strikes her again! This time pinning her against the door, calling her a "fucking baby killer" and "fucking murderer" which isn't true in the slightest. If Aj was somehow snatched out of Jane's arms by a walker and killed, that doesn't make her a murderer, at all! Kenny's explosiveness and constant overreacting of every situation was always so uncalled for, especially in this instance! May I add this is whole thing is happening right in front of Clementine, he's attempting to overpower and murder an innocent women right in front of Clementine's eyes. Now when I say innocent, to his knowledge, she is innocent. At this point he doesn't know that she's hidden Aj in the car, hence why he's trying to kill her, because he thinks she's 'murdered' Aj, which she didn't and isn't true if Aj was killed by a walker anyway. So he is trying to kill an innocent women in his eyes, (because there's no proof to her mudering Aj) which is absolutely disgusting, outrageous, satanic and demented. He is a vile man and is damned right deranged.
In conclusion, I personally really do not like Kenny. With everything he's done throughout the games, the cons definitely outweigh the pros, especially regarding S2. I also think Jane is very easily hated just because of all the people who loved Kenny from S1, which i don't think is very fair. I know in many people's eyes Jane messed up at the end of the game with regards to hiding Aj to show Clem how crazy Kenny actually is, but the decision she made to do that, made sense to me, she well and truely exposed how psychotic he is, yes I understand she put Aj's life in danger, but staying with Kenny was dangerous for them both anyway, for Christ sake he let Clem drive a car at age 13, which she was inevitably going to crash... anyway I degress.
Hopefully you guys can share an actual opinion in this thread about both Jane and Kenny, instead of all the Kenny lovers wanted to burn me at the stake. I really do think it's all down to personality. You prefer one character over the other because of the kind of person you are, whether you feel Jane shouldn't die for an accusation, (That she murdered Aj) when the accusation is false, or for any other reason, maybe like me, you just liked her in general, or whether you'll back Kenny until the end, or for any other reason also, or if you're one of those people that are tired of both of their shit and wants them both gone. Either way, please share.
Sorry I wrote so much, I didn't want this to be a massive thread that people can't be asked to read, it just happened this way.
Comments
I loved Kenny for many reasons, and I think a large part of that was everything that we went through together and the fact that we developed a relationship with him over several real life years and seasons. I saw him at his best and at his worse and I more or less knew exactly what to expect of him. My faith in him was rewarded with my favorite s2 ending and probably the most heartwarming anf flashback. I love that man but I understand why other people might not feel that way.
Your favourite S2 ending ends up in the murder of a women?
Nope, I hate Jane for other reasons.
You mean in saving a friend from a monster like Jane?
I also highlighted another reason, but if you hate her, express why
No because I that 'Friend' isn't pinned to the floor with a knife pointed at their neck. Kenny didn't need saving
I like him because he's done pretty rad things for the people he cares about. Sacrificing his own life for Kenny and AJ so they could stay at Wellington, killing Jane (jsyk, I hated her before episode 5), helping Lee find Clementine (my playthrough), etc.
However, I can completely understand why people would hate Kenny. He's done some fucked up stuff too. Racial slander, not helping Lee find Clem (other people's playthroughs), not even trying to save Shawn (even though I didn't really care for him. Didn't HATE him, but didn't like him either. He was just meh.), etc.
So, I can completely understand both sides of it.
Why I like him anyway,
Great character arc
Hard hitting emotional moments (only Lee and Clementine come close to rivaling him for me)
Great voice acting
Hilarious at times, without being or feeling like a generic comedy character
Great dialogue
Badass
Good chemistry with the playable character in both games
The fact that he wasn't really a morally good character don't mean shit to me.Let's take Luke for example - His entire shtick was that he was a morally good person and he couldn't have been a more bland, average character. Not gonna get into the whole Kenny vs Jane thing again but I also liked Jane for similar reasons.
Yeah I can too, as much as my opinion is strong towards Kenny, I respect what you're saying. Like I said about personalities, you can see that his pros shine brighter than his cons, but for me it's the polar opposite you know. What made you not like Jane may I ask?
No, but way to ignore everything good about the Kenny endings just to take one situation completely out of context. Really cute.
My favorite ending is actually when we realized that Jane played with an infant's life in order to prove a point, and then we ended up reaching the sanctuary of Wellington thus completing the story arc given to us at the beginning of the season by Christa. Then Kenny begged for them to take the kids, showing what a good man he is. We walked away together as a happy family with two bags of supplies and medicine.
I love how you portray Jane as just some random woman who did nothing wrong besides be around Kenny. Nice try.
Glad to see we have an understanding.
And now about Jane.
In episode 3, I thought she was just very okay. Nothing special to me at all. She was just kinda there.
In episode 4, I still thought she was just very okay, but then...I saw that she had sex with Luke in the observation deck. And in the process, didn't give him enough time to tell his people that walkers were attacking. And then Sarah died because of it. I know that they were both vulnerable and they needed to get a break from it all even if just for a few minutes, but...couldn't it have been later? Like, when Luke wasn't supposed to be on guard?
And there's how I felt about Jane before episode 5. I won't force you to agree with me, but this is just my 2 cents.
Well, let's start in episode 4. She wanted me to leave Sarah to die, she didn't even help snapping her out of it, she only helps when Sarah is convinced. Later, she made Luke an unnecesary offer when Rebecca was about to give birth, she needed help but she didn't give a shit, she (Jane) did that in an unsafe place. Not only it led Sarah to her alternative death but she determinantly led her to her own death (Commiting suicide). Luke had a job to do (To spot any nearby walkers) and Jane didn't let him finish which could have gotten Clem and the others killed. Later, she abandons Clementine for no reason only to come back only because she now realises she (Clem) could be in danger again.
Secondly, she threatens Arvo and wants to steal his whole stuff. Why his whole fucking stuff? Why not just the pills and let him have the rest? She didn't even give his gun back and drops it like a fucking idiot. This led his group to attack Clem's group. She then trusts him to go to his safe house when he just ambushed the group when in the last episode she said "Don't you ever come around here again, I don't care if you do have some sick sister, the next time I see, you won't be just walking away".
Speaking of Kenny vs Jane situation, no one should ever say Jane was innocent. She left a baby in a frozen car where he could have died, it's not just that, this was some unnecesary shit, provoking a man who has lost a lot, this is not part of survival. She could have easily prevented the fight by telling Kenny the baby was alive. If she was doing it for Clementine, THEN WHY DID SHE DO THAT ONLY TO ABANDON HER A FEW WEEKS LATER (If you choose to stay with her)? No matter what people say, Jane manipulated Clementine. Not only she manipulated her, she also didn't tell her the baby was fine, Clem discovered the truth on her own.
In the flashback with Jane, as I said, she abandoned Clementine for the second time. Not telling her she was pregnant, not leaving a note and not having her (Jane) brain damaged.
I don't think I'll have more time to talk about this. You can have your opinion.
He didn't need my help. He handled himself just fine.
Yeah your 2 cents are valid. I personally left Sarah so I didn't have that added guilt, however, that little scene those two had together is what kills Jane, I'm totally against it too, however I don't think she forced him into anything, he could stayed on perimeter watch but also chose to take a break from all the shit. I don't blame Jane for that
Shitstorm incoming, quick, get an umbrella!
Kenny is a great example of a proper character development, him evolving throughout the story was presented very realistic and relatable, and at the same time his arc managed to stay in character, as colorful as it was initially stated. The process of Kenny going through different stages of grief is not only an interesting perspective to observe, but also a chance to explore a mind of a man strapped naked from almost all good human traits and see how scary and depressing apocalyptic world can be. As the story progress, it reveals more and more of the damaged skeleton of a man Kenny once was.
Especially in Ben ending, Kenny gets a whole lot of necessary development. From his point of view, Ben was to blame for everything he's suffered for (not talking about whenever he was right or wrong to assume so) yet he saved the boy from painful death, willingly sacrificing himself to be eaten. I can't even think how much of courage you have to find in yourself to do something like this.
In S2, well... it's easy to dislike him, as he overshadows almost everyone standing too close to him. But then again, he is back and we have a branched out, solid background for this gray, mixed character. He's loud, reckless, hot-headed and stubborn, but he's flawed and remains realistic.
(!) I might edit this post later to add more, as I don't have time right know.
Is it weird that I happen to like both of them for different reasons? Jane for her survival tactics, independence, friendship with those she cares most about, and also the fact that I think I can relate to her/understand her personality more than any other character in the series, and Kenny for his loyalty, determination, funny one-liners, god-like beard and the fact that he'll fight like hell to protect the ones he cares about.
Honestly, the more that I think about it, although the two of them might seem to be polar opposites of one another, they can actually be two sides of the same coin. They just went about things in different ways, including how they handled their losses and how they dealt with the fact that the entire world went to shit basically out of nowhere.
But anyway, I get why people would dislike or even hate the other, and how their whole supposed "tension" with one another was designed to put people on opposite sides (unless of course you went alone), but it hasn't turned out that way for me at least.
Firstly, she was instantly shook when she saw Sarah because her sister was the exact same, imagine if that was you man have some empathy. She didn't want to put Sarah through a forced march through hell like she did with her sister, because at that time she thought that was the right thing to do. I believe your opinion on Jane not giving a shit about Rebecca is wrong, she did care otherwise why would she of got the gift shop open in the first place. And that statement about her leading herself to her own death, that's a dark thing to say, she clearly didn't intentionally go into that knowing she'd commit suicide if she fell pregnant, get real. Jane didn't force luke into not finishing his job, he willingly went up onto that deck to see Jane, straight after Clementine came off it, and you saying she abandoned Clem, that's not true, Clementine wasn't alone therefore she wasn't left abandoned, she had the group with her, the reason she left is because she didn't want to go through the emotional stress of loosing another one of the people closest to her, her instinct was to come back and protect Clem, once she heard gunshots. With the arvo situation, she instantly breaks down after, and she couldn't just give arvo the gun back, he had it pointed at Clem for one, and two you really fucking think after looking in his medication bag and threatening him with it she'd just give it straight back? Even if she didn't threaten him to not come round there again, he still could of easily shot both of them. And she doesn't trust him, she trusts that they need the food and supplies he's talking about, she exclaims they need those supplies and it's worth a shot checking it out. And the car wasn't frozen, the doors wouldn't operate if it was frozen, I see what you're saying, yeah it's probably fucking cold in there, but not a 'frozen car' that's over exaggerating, and you've used the excuse provoking a man who's lost a lot... didn't you read the full thread? Everybody's lost a fucking lot it doesn't exclude him from anyone else who's also lost a lot, not an excuse. With you saying she could of stopped the fight by saying ajs fine, he could of not started the fight in the first place, again I've covered this and you've clearly not taken it in, and with her 'abandoning' Clem, she had psychological issues, like I've already covered and couldn't even take care of herself any longer, how can she also look after an 11 year old and new born child, she did it to protect Clem, she knew Clem could make it on her own, she fucking told her that at the end of episode 4! She didn't tell Clem about aj because she simply asked her to trust her, she based it off trust so why would she say straight up? It doesn't make sense for her case. With the claim that she abandoned Clem (by committing suicide) is an extremely selfish statement. You have no idea the demons that women was carrying and hiding from everyone on a daily basis, and just for the record this was the first and last time she abandoned Clem, the time before you talked about she had the group with her, that's not being abandoned. And I'm pretty sure the sleepless nights and stomach aches she got were indications to Jane that she might be pregnant, she went to carvers office, took the test, found out there and then and hung herself.
Yeah, I don't think luke was boring! I'd take Luke over Jane and kenny I think, he was great. But yeah I feel as our opinions on kenny are quite different personally, but obviously you clicked with him so fairs to you.
Yeah I just didn't really like him, the cons outweighs the pros for me personally, and he kinda throws a fit if you disagree with him, it's whatever though.
That's nice that you can see the greatness in both of them, what you've written about Jane has resonated with me, it's very true and well put forward, and I can agree with some of the kenny things too. The way they handled their losses and the apocalypse is very true, I like Jane a lot more for how level headed she is, I can really relate it her I feel.
wew lad. you're in for a treat.
I always found with Jane that there was a lot more going on underneath the surface that she never really wanted to show. She seemed pretty introverted to me, never really opening up personally with anyone that she didn't truly care about and wanting to keep people at a distance because she knew that, in the end, people were going to end up getting killed. I loved that dynamic she and Clem ended up creating over the course of their brief time together, though.
I recently came upon a YouTube video that helped me with figuring out what kind of person I myself might be, but the more that I think about it, this might apply to Jane as well. Here it is if you want to take a look.
10 Signs an Introvert Likes You
Y'know, if there isn't a thread for it already, somebody should try to do some more in-depth character analyses so that people can try to piece together their personalities and why they acted the way they did. I'd read the hell out of some for Jane and Kenny, but others for people like Lee, Lilly, Carver, etc. would be cool, too.
Kenny was gonna help me find Clem but then I told Ben he could come and Kenny threw a hissy fit and stayed behind. So yeah fuck him! But Clem didn't know that.
You mean Sarita?
To be fair, I think it already was
There are a lot of reasons for people liking him and most of them understandably revolve around him being a Season 1 character. I've personally grown to dislike him myself, but it's only natural he have a middling reception. Of course, since I was always positively neutral towards him until a few months ago, he has little to nothing to do with why Jane is one of my personal Scrappy characters.
eh? what do you mean by this?
Jane's depression made her pretend the baby was dead?
As for Kenny, I recall opinions of him in season 1 being mixed. But after season 2, almost everyone was riding his dick. Including me. I got over it, though.
Having that profile pic made made those last few lines humorous, yet fitting to read.
Because Kenny is one of the more realistic and complex characters, it's the reason why he's the easiest to nitpick and criticize, bar Clementine and Lee as they have choice-dependent actions and dialogue (well, for the some part at least). Just like every other character, people may like him for his story, his character, his personality, his ideology, his humor or even just because he was one of the originals, among other reasons - similarly to why many people like Jane, it's really not difficult to come up with a few reasons by just thinking of why you like your own favorite characters.
Now, while I do like Kenny and count him as one of my top 10 favorite characters from TTG's games, I will admit that I criticize him quite a bit but that's mostly due to how they handled his character in Season 2. Had they not overshadowed the other characters with Kenny's image, shown implications of a bias in favor of Kenny and practically made Clementine and Kenny automatically best buddies despite the lack of context of their actual relationship from the previous season (allot of which was negative interactions between the two), then he'd have been a more enjoyable character for me.
I suppose it boils down to Kenny being one of those characters that people often love or love to hate.
Well, it does, Kenny initiated the fight by lunging at Jane as soon as she concealed her knife, hence Kenny starting the fight - yes Jane provoked him but it was Kenny's direct action that resulted in the fight.
I wish more characters were given the same amount of detail and attention that Kenny was given, especially the Season Two cast as we had no prior knowledge of them so their character development fell somewhat short in comparison, for the most part, at least in my own opinion.
I still wonder to this day how Kenny made a sacrifice by letting Clementine and AJ go into Wellington by Clementine's choice because of Edith's intervention?
Spot on, that's Sarita's role to Kenny. Not Jane who was awful to him and Sarah.
Jane purposely started this whole situation with pretending AJ was dead.
She could have ended it by saying he was still alive at anytime.
You make it sound like Jane did nothing wrong and Kenny killed her just because.
I like Kenny because be is a complex, interesting character. He isn't all good or all bad. He also reminds me a lot of my own father. I can easily understand why people don't like him, he has a lot of faults.
Now since Jane was brought up several times, I mostly dislike her because of the way she acted towards Sarah and Kenny.
I don't care how much Sarah reminded her of Jamie, wanting to leave her to die just because of that is terrible. If they wanted to make Jane more likable she could have realized she screwed up with her sister, didn't want to make the same mistake twice and try to actually help Sarah. Also it's her and Luke's fault Sarah died later on. That was not the time and place for them to be goofing around, Luke had a job to do.
The way she talked about Sarita to make Kenny mad was uncalled for. Sarita is already dead, and did nothing wrong to anyone, so her being brought up like that was unneeded. If anything Kenny should have talked about her more so we could have learned literally anything about her.
The whole AJ situation was awful. Kenny shouldn't have fought her people say, but Jane shouldn't have done that in the first place.
I would also like to add calling an obvious mentally ill character like Kenny (he shows plenty of signs of depression and ptsd) crazy and psychotic is pretty gross. Like I don't care if people dislike him, I wish people would stop throwing those words around when criticizing him.
Exactly so how are you saving him from a monster? You're not, in fact you're chatting absolute shit
Well whatever way you portray it, he overpowered and killed a women out of anger, just saying.
She didn't start it, she instigated it, which isn't much better I know but it's true. Kenny started by trying to attack her, twice.
I think the sacrifice they mean is walking to wellington, not letting them go in per-say. But yes I agree, it's not exactly a sacrifice by letter Clementine decide her own fate.
Yeah compared to Kenny they weren't supplied with much of a back story to us. It would of been nice to have that kind of detail in Luke's story, and Janes in my opinion