She definitely dug her own grave with her plan. She wanted Kenny out of the picture so she either was expecting to be able to do it herself, or she wanted Clem to do her dirty work. When she had the knife to her throat she could call off the whole thing by telling the truth. She didn't. She was waiting for Clem to kill Kenny when Jane herself told Clem to stay out of it. My Clem did just that. She stayed out of it. Jane has only herself to blame for her death.
I think Kenny was a great guy and all, and he did alot of things to help Clementine, but I also think that peoples relation to Kenny, AS Lee in season 1 skewed their perception of him in season 2, I based my opinion of Kenny from Clems perspective, and while Lee and Kenny were great friends, Clem barely knew the guy, I mostly stayed neutral, both in season 1 and season 2, so I always supported who I thought was right, or if they were both wrong, I would not get mixed up.
I like the alone ending, which is the one I got, I had my doubts about Kenny throughout the entirety of season 2, I was happy to see him, but he was turning into something, where I could not follow him, so when it came down to it, I put Kenny down, while it was not an easy decision, I had to think of Clems safety, yes, Kenny always had Clems safety in mind, but seeing how he went off on Jane, there is no way I could be sure he would not snap at Clem one day. I also think that his dying goodbye is a sad, but great moment for him, because he realizes what he became, and he thanks Clem for what she did.
That being said, as soon as Jane revealed her plan, and that AJ was alive, I left her sorry ass in the cold, she was the conduit, it was all her fault, the argument between Kenny and Jane didnt have to happen, Jane acted very selfishly, and for that, I will never forgive her, I thought Jane was a decent person, who had been broken by the losses she had sustained, but as opposed to Kenny, she chose to bury her loss deep within herself, and survive, but Kenny got consumed by his loss.
Started, instigated, it's the same thing. She knew how Kenny was broken and she intentionally pushed him over the edge by faking AJ's death, the one thing that kept him going at that point. That's a terrible thing to do. Whatever her intentions were. When she used the knife on Kenny and he was defenseless, she charged at him and even pushes Clem out of the way when she tried to stop her. She wanted a fight and she had no intentions of stopping. Turns out things didn't go her way and she ended up losing the fight, which was when she could still stop it all by revealing the truth. The fact that she was willing to let Clem go through the trauma of killing the last person alive from her first group is just diabolic. Kenny's actions were clouded by anger, he couldn't control himself, but Jane knew exactly what she was doing the whole time. That's far worse in my book.
I never took anyone's opinion on board. I just said that I hate Jane for other reasons and you asked why and I just answered your question. What's that got to do with me not respecting your opinion?
Yeah I'd think it'll be best if you just stopped commenting, we clearly have differnet opinions and I personally don't like your attitude, let's just leave it if you can't talk nicely.
Lol Are you serious? You say they don't take anyone's opinions seriously and then you call THEIR opinion wrong? You started this discussion. You wanted to know why people like Kenny and why Jane doesn't get a lot of love. People are giving their opinions, there's nothing wrong in having a discussion on why you don't agree with this or that and explain how you view it. Just because you see it in a different way, doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong.
You're not worth talking to, you don't take anybody else's opinion on board therefore you're an ongoing argument and a broken record that wi… morell just continue repeating the same old shit. Just know there's so many things wrong with what you're saying, it's just not worth my time. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, don't try to prove me wrong when there's no right answer.
Everything said here is almost perfectly correct and extremely valid, however I wouldn't say it was 'ALL' her fault. The argument didn't have to happen you're right don't get me wrong, she instigated it and that's not right. However kenny started the argument, she instigated and he started, pushing blame on to both parties, I'd say. But yeah apart from that, you're spot on.
I think Kenny was a great guy and all, and he did alot of things to help Clementine, but I also think that peoples relation to Kenny, AS Lee… more in season 1 skewed their perception of him in season 2, I based my opinion of Kenny from Clems perspective, and while Lee and Kenny were great friends, Clem barely knew the guy, I mostly stayed neutral, both in season 1 and season 2, so I always supported who I thought was right, or if they were both wrong, I would not get mixed up.
I like the alone ending, which is the one I got, I had my doubts about Kenny throughout the entirety of season 2, I was happy to see him, but he was turning into something, where I could not follow him, so when it came down to it, I put Kenny down, while it was not an easy decision, I had to think of Clems safety, yes, Kenny always had Clems safety in mind, but seeing how he went off on Jane, there is no way I could be sure he would not snap at Clem one day. I also think t… [view original content]
Yeah I'd think it'll be best if you just stopped commenting, we clearly have differnet opinions and I personally don't like your attitude, let's just leave it if you can't talk nicely.
So Clementine hearing the gun is worse then Jane hanging herself, reanimating, possibly getting loose and attacking Clem and AJ if she did? What the hell?!
Kenny also pushed Clem out of the way and he also intended to kill someone from the group, you arguement to backing up kenny also can back up Jane, Kenny ran at Jane when she was defenceless, he also pushed Clem out the way and also intended on killing someone. And you say she had no intention of stopping, she tried stopping straight away when she intiatally put her knife away, after that I saw it as she was defending herself.
Started, instigated, it's the same thing. She knew how Kenny was broken and she intentionally pushed him over the edge by faking AJ's death,… more the one thing that kept him going at that point. That's a terrible thing to do. Whatever her intentions were. When she used the knife on Kenny and he was defenseless, she charged at him and even pushes Clem out of the way when she tried to stop her. She wanted a fight and she had no intentions of stopping. Turns out things didn't go her way and she ended up losing the fight, which was when she could still stop it all by revealing the truth. The fact that she was willing to let Clem go through the trauma of killing the last person alive from her first group is just diabolic. Kenny's actions were clouded by anger, he couldn't control himself, but Jane knew exactly what she was doing the whole time. That's far worse in my book.
That's all I've said this whole time! Everyone is entitiles to their opinion! I've not said anyone's opinion is wrong, I've even vouched the fact that their isn't a wrong answer, it's how people look at the situations given about the characters, so I don't know where that came from!
Lol Are you serious? You say they don't take anyone's opinions seriously and then you call THEIR opinion wrong? You started this discussion.… more You wanted to know why people like Kenny and why Jane doesn't get a lot of love. People are giving their opinions, there's nothing wrong in having a discussion on why you don't agree with this or that and explain how you view it. Just because you see it in a different way, doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong.
Yeah, yeah, coming from a guy who just told me to grow up for no reason.
let's just leave it if you can't talk nicely.
How about YOU leave if you don't have anything nice to say? I didn't even tell you shit
So Clementine hearing the gun is worse then Jane hanging herself, reanimating, possibly getting loose and attacking Clem and AJ if she did? What the hell?!
How isn't it? I didn't agree with how you felt so you decided to come to this thread cause trouble... I've said you can have your opinion and I'd respect it, if you respected what I had to say too, which you clearly didn't.
You are obviously very new here. You'll actually find on these forums that more people dislike Kenny than like him but other places on the web it is different so i am not sure why you think this.
Anyway in response to your post (and i am sure gonna have a field day here):
when it came to S2 when Kenny was re-introduced to the second installment of telltales 'The Walking Dead', everybody freaked out and acted like Kenny and Clem (because Clementine is the playable and main character in S2) were the bestest of friends, when in reality they barely had a conversation in the first game.
It was more the fact people were surprised and happy that he had survived after the noble thing he did in saving Christa or trying to save Ben. People thought he was dead and a lot of people who were fans or neutral were happy to see him and also given that he was a season 1 character which brought on the so called feels.
It also really confused me as to why he's so looked up too,
Lol he's not "looked up to" by everyone but everyone views him differently. Some, like me respect him for reasons I have stated many times in the past.
in my opinion he's a rude middle aged man who at times acts like a child
You see that to me is just a guy being honest about his feelings. Sure it comes across as rude but he tells you exactly what he thinks of you or in the given situation. He says things that people don't want to hear. And yep if you disagree with him on things he treats you differently and that is how his character was made by Telltale to love or hate him. I wonder if you have actually seen the game if your Lee and Kenny are friends instead of enemies.
It's very different and may give you another perspective
he looked down upon Lee in the first season if Lee ever swore in front of Clementine and creticted him for it
Lol um?? Please highlight when Kenny scolded Lee for swearing in front of Clem??? That's laughable considering he and many others swear in front of her and i know he didn't ever tell Lee "don't swear in front of Clem". So Im really not sure why you are making this up.
but then in S2 if you chop Sarita's arm off to attempt to stop her turning, he says the most awful and hurtful things to Clem and it's heartbreaking, to hear him say such things to an 11 year old, blaming her for Saritas death and calling her "a stupid fucking kid" when all she did was try to help.
I understand he just lost 'his girl Sarita' but everybody's lost family and partners
And now i must ask you to look at it from his point of view instead of being one dimensional (no offence intended btw). You say you understand that he just lost "his girl Sarita" but if you did understand you would get why he reacted horribly to Clem. Yes other people have lost their loved ones too but everyone is different and deals with grief differently and unfortunately, the way he deals with grief is in an angry way. Some cry, some want to be alone, there are many different reasons. I didn't like the way he treated her and it wasn't right but i forgave him because i know he didn't mean those horrible things he said to her. He apologised in the following episode for the things he said to her as well but i suppose you missed that scene.
Then later on at the meeting spot continued to say some extremely horrific things to Clementine, (I can't remember everything he said, but I definitely remember it's straight fucked up okay)
Again refer to my above reply.
even an adult shouldn't have to take that shit from a broken asshole
When someone is broken you shouldn't help break them further by being horrible back. 2 wrongs don't make a right. If i was there i would try to help someone i consider a friend, i would try to bring them back from the trauma he or she have gone through. As i said, everyone reacts differently and you need to understand that.
can go barking orders and not listen to anybody else, that's another thing, he treats all the other adults (usually male, expect Jane) like absolute crap.
And now i must ask you, have you even asked yourself why he treats people in the group like crap? There is always a reason for why he does unlike Larry who was just a horrible fuck with every single sentence that came out of his gob. At least Kenny can be nice at times and even you should admit that. Everything Kenny did was always in his mind in the best interests for the group. Sure I admit that he didn't always think things through and rushed into decisions without thinking but the point is, the intention was there. He could have left the group to fend for themselves but he stayed. He got the RV working for not just his family but for everyone in the hopes they'd find somewhere better given the fact they were starving and being hounded by bandits every 5 seconds. Same in season 2, he gets a truck working for the group, not himself, but the group. You question why he treats people like crap yeah? Well if i did those things and people moaned at me for not wanting to do this and that then I would be pretty pissed off too. You see i am trying to give you another perspective to his character. Not changing your opinion, its fine you don't like him, but i wanted to share that despite the way he treats people sometimes, he is still someone who does what he feels is right for others.
He's no kind of role model, in any way shape or form.
He isn't in your eyes just because he only appears horrible but as i said earlier, look at the reasons behind his actions and maybe you'll consider the view that everything he does is always in the interest of other people and not just himself. For example, he'll scold Lee if he decides not to feed his son OR Clementine which shows that he cares about the wellbeing of kids before himself. Same in season 2, when AJ was born, Kenny made the baby Clem the number 1 priority. People like yourself just view him as like an enemy just because he can be an asshole but never look past that and see the good things about him or the reasons why as to why he can be nasty.
Furthermore, I feel Jane doesn't get a lot of love from the community
Again you show how new you are here because on this website, more people seemingly like Jane but in other places on the web they don't.
Jane is an emotionally unstable women that carries heavy demons around with her, having said that, on the surface I find she does extremely well to hide the hurt she's going through, and I also feel that's because she understands that everybody else is grieving about losing loved ones as well
If she understood this then she wouldn't have done the evil thing she did at the end of season 2. If she was any sort of decent person she'd try to help a grieving unstable person or respect the feelings of the little girl she was trying to force the decision on making over her unstable friend.
however I feel Janes depression seeps much deeper than just losing loved ones, which inevitably results in her heartbreaking death.
Lol sorry but i am shaking my head here but your opinion of course but this was funny.
When it comes to Kenny, I believe he doesn't carry demons around with him to the extent like Jane does
Well i'd love to hear your reasons as to why you think this!! Please explain.
however he's very open with his emotions and isn't afraid to take it out on the group
Exactly my earlier point.
Of course he's upset about what's happened to him but is that really a valid excuse?
Yes, yes it is a very valid excuse.
By S3 Clementine has lost everyone she's ever known... TWICE! Yet we have seen no sign of her being an absolute psychotic bitch to Javi, or anybody else.
Lol you just don't get it do you? As i said everyone deals with grief differently. Not everyone is going to act like Kenny did of course not. You again just seem to look in a straight line about this. Did you ever consider that he received some slight brain damage after what Carver did to him? Bet you didn't consider that did you? I personally don't think that was the case but losing his whole family, his determinant best friend (Lee) and then Sarita and even when Rebecca died, i just think all those deaths messed him up. It affected him more than others and that's that. Everyone is different. Clem certainly appears colder than she did in season 3 previously though so being alone for so long has obviously hardened her.
Kenny was psychotic and I don't believe the excuse of 'him losing his family' is a valid response to his behaviour, sorry.
Please look up the term psychotic. A psycho does not have a conscience yet Kenny showed numerous times throughout season 1 and 2 that he did. I admit he was on edge and going off the rails but as the Wellington ending and flashback in season 3 showed, Kenny obviously wasn't as psychotic as you make him out to be. Again as i have said to you, grief is something that can affect people in different ways and with some people it is much more severe than with others. I hope you can appreciate what i am trying to say the times i have repeated this.
I think the final straw for me to really not like Kenny was the final scene of S2. The fight in the truck stop place all starts because of him overreacting.
Overreacting?? Ok, if you had just had an argument in the truck exchanging hurtful things to each other, almost crashing, how would you feel about said person? Kenny never trusted Jane from the start and you know what, he was right not to. Even though he shouldn't have outright assumed Jane killed the baby, she went out of her way to make it seem like he was dead claiming it was an accident which turned out to be an outright lie all just to rile him up. I mean that's just sick and if you think that was an ok thing to do hiding a baby in a freezing cold car, alone, where walkers could have found a way in through the gap in the window,!then all the negative comments you have stated about Kenny is fucking laughable quite frankly when what she did is just as fucked up if not worse. I'd also like to point out the other reasons why Kenny didn't trust Jane. She left the group in episode 4 and was going to leave without telling anyone if Clem hadn't seen her. That to me was a very selfish act. She indirectly caused the Russians to ambush the group because she threatened Arvo with the gun whether you stole from him or not. Despite Kenny being offscreen, she constantly referred to AJ as an "it" making it seem like she didn't give a shit about him at all. She even asked Rebecca "what are you going to do with it" even before the baby was born implying she should get rid of it. It's things like this why Kenny didn't trust her and can be assumed he found out these things later. He even says "she didn't want the baby around" so he must have been informed of the way Jane was.
it's the main reason everybody hates Jane
That's not the main reason everybody hates her at all. Let me list the reasons I dislike Jane for:
In episode 3 she tells the group to smear themselves with walker guts. She says the line "You guys better get to smearing if you wanna live...or you can die here. Doesn't matter to me. Saying that shows she didn't care about the others wellbeing and only cared for herself.
She left her sister to die because she didn't want to be saved. Ok, i get it, they were cornered on a roof, she couldn't throw her or seemingly do anything physically to save her. Is this the truth? We will never know but we can assume this wasn't one of her lies on this occasion. I don't actually dislike Jane for this anyway because it wasn't her fault.
Jane constantly pressured Clem into leaving Sarah back at the trailer. The scene obviously reminded her of her sister not wanting to live. However the situation was different, Sarah could be saved where as with Jane's sister, they were trapped on the roof and could not be saved. I felt Jane's treatment of Sarah was wrong and should have done more to help her instead of "let's go you can't force her Clem". It just bothered me that she would be willing to leave Sarah like that without really trying when they had at least a bit of time to do so.
If Sarah was saved at the trailer, she AGAIN didn't want to save her after the deck collapsed. If Clem asks her to save Sarah, Jane will say "are you crazy, there's no getting to her. Pull me up". It's more so the attitude from her more than anything. I do appreciate the fact if you stay silent she'll go down to try and help her but regardless, it's her unwillingness to be selfless in that situation. Even Clem can say "you didn't even want to try and save her. Don't pretend your sorry".
As stated earlier, she leaves the group in episode 4 which comes across as very selfish especially as she would have left without saying anything to anyone. Sure she came back in the next episode but what's to say she didn't come back out of guilt? She was indirectly responsible for the Russian attack.n
When Luke was trapped under the ice, still alive and trying to get out, Jane was insisting on Clem to give up, that he couldn't be saved. I get why she was saying that, for Clem's safety and allnbut if it was me I would do everything in my power to try and save my friend especially knowing he was still alive trying to get out from under the ice. Again it's more her uninterested reaction to the situation and felt that leaving him was more important than trying to save him.
Hiding AJ in a freezing cold car just to prove a point to a little girl that her friend was dangerous when he was angry. Except doing what she did she ended up putting THREE lives in danger, herself, AJ's and Clementine being stuck in the middle. Sure, i get why Jane did what she did but whilst it was an unselfish thing she did for Clem's best interest in her eyes, it was actually selfish to AJ who did not deserve such treatment and it was just an evil thing to do to try and anger an already suffering man by making him think she had killed the baby. In my opinion Kenny would never have hurt Clem. He saw her as Duck's replacement. He even says in season 3 "you're the best second chance I could ask for" which meant being like a father again.
These are just some of the reasons i do not like her.
If Jane walked there without Aj he could of waited after he'd asked where Aj was to get a response from her, but no.
Oh but he did wait for a response in which she responded "he's..." said in a very sad emotional way, a star studded acting performance in the way she delivered the line where as her response didn't need answering as she made it seem like AJ was dead from the way she said "he's...". Watch the scene again, you'll see what i mean.
His crazy ass goes sprinting into the snow storm in attempt to find him, when he returns he could of asked Jane yet again where Aj is calmly, exclaiming that he didn't see him,
Again what you fail to grasp is this. AJ was the one last true thing Kenny cared about besides Clem. He delivered Rebecca's baby, you could even say that he adopted him once Rebecca died. So say for arguments sake, AJ was Kenny's adopted son. What Jane did was make it appear that she had killed or left Kenny's adopted child to die. Are you telling me you wouldn't go ballistic and think the same thing if you didn't like nor trust this woman who had your child with her? I wouldn't call him crazy for running out to look for him. You think he's going to return and ask her calmly what happened despite the fact he already asked her and she deliberately hinted that AJ was dead so why ask again? She'd then lie again anyway.
this could of easily prevented the fight
No, what would have prevented the fight is Jane not pulling a fucking stupid stunt that she did to make him angry. If she hadn't done what she did then everything would have been fine. She was to blame for getting the ball rolling. She knew how he'd react and that he'd try to kill her, she even admits it when they are fighting on the ground by saying "i knew you would". Its funny how you make it seem like Jane is the victim here when if you actually look at the situation deeper, you'll see that she isn't innocent in all this either. What Kenny was doing was wrong but what she did was equally wrong and if you can't admit that then there is no point discussing this scene further with you.
but instead he thinks violence straight away and plans to attack Jane instantly,
Again refer to what I said earlier, if your child or someone you really cared about was missing and the person responsible (Jane) acted like the baby was dead how would you react? You'd be furious. You'd do more than shout at someone if the one thing you loved was taken away from you cruelly in such a way made you believe said person (Jane) had killed or caused to die. Ok, resorting to violence wouldn't be the first thing that would normally occur no and It's not right and I'm not justifying his actions for that but that's where Kenny's mental state comes into it, Jane set him off knowing he was on edge. Kenny is like a beast that needs to be tamed, if you tame the beast, he's harmless. Also i would argue that to begin with Kenny was only trying to hurt Jane but later on after they fight outside the rest stop, it became a fight to the death.
After Jane gets the better of him by successfully protecting herself and moving toward the other glass door, she proceeds to tell him not to attack her again, with that she puts her knife away; she could of easily stabbed him there and then, she had the weapon and he didn't, but no she proceeds to take the none violent option and put her weapon away.
Yes and why did she put the weapon away? Because she wanted Clem to see her do that so it makes her look innocent. Quite smart of her actually but i saw through her bullshit. It's a shame a lot of people fell for her tactic. She knew he would attack her once she put the knife away. She had to make it look more convincing that Kenny would attack her.
If Aj was somehow snatched out of Jane's arms by a walker and killed, that doesn't make her a murderer, at all!
No it doesn't but it sure would make her a liar if she had said that and Kenny still wouldn't believe her. He says to Clem later "she never wanted the baby around, she made that clear" which then brings me to the point i made earlier when she implied to Rebecca that she should get rid of the baby once it's been born, calling the baby an it and things like that. Kenny made assumption based on her past actions and after she made it seem like AJ was dead he accused her of killing him so yes he called her a murderer. He had no proof we know this and it was wrong in that sense to immediately accuse her of being a murderer. But all she had to was to confess what she had done, to say the baby was ok and Kenny would not have reacted how he did. You must see this? What if AJ had never cried to alert Clem that he was still alive? Would Jane have told Clem where he was or kept quiet and left making her believe AJ was dead just so they wouldn't have a noisy baby to deal with? Also what if Kenny kills Jane? Him or Clementine would never have known AJ was hidden away and they would have assumed he was dead and left and that innocent child would have frozen and starved to death all because she wouldn't confess what she was up to.
Kenny's explosiveness and constant overreacting of every situation was always so uncalled for, especially in this instance!
I disagree that his actions in EVERY situation was uncalled for. Some yes but not all.
May I add this is whole thing is happening right in front of Clementine, he's attempting to overpower and murder an innocent women right in front of Clementine's eyes.
You really show your ignorance by saying Jane is innocent in all this. I already explained above why she wasn't innocent either. In fact,
May I add this is whole thing is happening right in front of Clementine, he's attempting to overpower and murder an innocent women right in front of Clementine's eyes.
You really show your ignorance by saying Jane is innocent in all this. I already explained above why she wasn't innocent either. In fact, you go on about Kenny trying to kill her when she was doing the same damn thing. When she first slashed him with the knife, they go outside, Kenny is backing off at this point. Tell me, why doesn't Jane back down? She could have right? She had the upperhand, she had the knife. Instead she charges towards Kenny with the knife. How is that not trying to kill him either? Or raking at his eyes? They were both trying to kill each other at that point and if you can't see both sides of the coin then i think you should seriously watch/play that scene a few more times and be less biased.
Now when I say innocent, to his knowledge, she is innocent.
Er no? He doesn't think she's innocent at all. Are you honestly suggesting he was trying to kill her because he just wanted to for fun or something? He didn't think she was innocent which is why he so angry. What are you trying to say here?
I personally really do not like Kenny.
Lol no shit!
With everything he's done throughout the games, the cons definitely outweigh the pros, especially regarding S2.
Haha completely disagree. Of course in your game you obviously saw the worst side of him i suppose but not in mine.
now in many people's eyes Jane messed up at the end of the game with regards to hiding Aj to show Clem how crazy Kenny actually is, but the decision she made to do that, made sense to me, she well and truely exposed how psychotic he is
Again your misuse of the word psychotic. It is wrong in this context and I won't repeat what i said earlier.
yes I understand she put Aj's life in danger, but staying with Kenny was dangerous for them both anyway,
So putting AJ's life in danger makes her less dangerous than Kenny yeah? At least you know what you get with Kenny. Clem had known Jane for what? 3-5 days since Carver's place? Clem had known Kenny for a hell of a lot longer than Jane. I would rather trust someone I don't like than someone i hardly know especially in an apocalyptic world like that. Besides, I wouldn't trust Jane if i found out she had done what she did to make her sickening point. It annoys me as well that Jane didn't even ask Clem what she wanted to do, to either go with her or stay with Kenny. Instead she just forces her into the decision. Clem knows the man Kenny really he is at heart and that his violent actions were always brought on for a reason and NEVER for no reason at all (which by the way is what a REAL psychopath would do).
for Christ sake he let Clem drive a car at age 13, which she was inevitably going to crash...
Oh god haha so you even find something to nit pick here as well. Let's see here, so she's 13 and what? Are we following law guidelines that she's not old enough to drive? Lol. You don't get very far on foot you know. At least what Kenny did was sensible in trying to teach her how to drive, to be able to get place to place easier. Sure it didn't turn out well but shit happens. This was just a really lame nit pick im sorry but it was.
Hopefully you guys can share an actual opinion in this thread about both Jane and Kenny, instead of all the Kenny lovers wanted to burn me at the stake.
This is really disrespectful and makes it sound like you are provoking Kenny fans to attack you. Your comment in itself is an attack on Kenny fans and yet you are hoping we don't?
I really do think it's all down to personality. You prefer one character over the other because of the kind of person you are,
Not necessarily. It depends on how you first perceive them. First impressions count for everything. To some people their first impressions of Kenny aren't good. Like they will dislike him for not trying to help save Shawn Greene yet there are other people who will look at it in a way that he made a mistake or understand that he was looking out for his son, something any parent would have done. Some people (such as me) are more forgiving of his actions and attitude as a character where as others hold things against him and just don't like him. He is one of the best written characters ever in any game i have ever played and it's a shame Telltale will probably never create another like him.
Anyway thanks for reading and i am sorry it being so long winded. I don't mean to offend you in anything i say but we also have strong opinions as to why I don't agree with you on Kenny but it is your opinion and welcome to the Telltale forums.
How isn't it? I didn't agree with how you felt so you decided to come to this thread cause trouble... I've said you can have your opinion and I'd respect it, if you respected what I had to say too, which you clearly didn't.
I've said you can have your opinion
That's what I even said above!!!!!! I said you can have your opinion.
if you respected what I had to say too, which you clearly didn't.
May I add this is whole thing is happening right in front of Clementine, he's attempting to overpower and murder an innocent women right in … morefront of Clementine's eyes.
You really show your ignorance by saying Jane is innocent in all this. I already explained above why she wasn't innocent either. In fact, you go on about Kenny trying to kill her when she was doing the same damn thing. When she first slashed him with the knife, they go outside, Kenny is backing off at this point. Tell me, why doesn't Jane back down? She could have right? She had the upperhand, she had the knife. Instead she charges towards Kenny with the knife. How is that not trying to kill him either? Or raking at his eyes? They were both trying to kill each other at that point and if you can't see both sides of the coin then i think you should seriously watch/play that scene a few more times and be less biased.
Now when I say innocent, to his knowledge, she is … [view original content]
Well you started by involving yourself negatively into this thread, I didn't start with you, you chose to come here and disagree, which is okay, if you disagreed in a polite manner, which you clearly didn't. I've asked many times for you to stop instigating this argument politely, yet you've refused the offer and continued to comment negatively, which isn't what I wanted when I created the discussion. So for the 4th time, I'd really appreciate if you'd stop commenting negatively, If you can be polite about things then please stay, if you don't you can manage that, then please leave me alone, thank you.
Comments
What the fuck is wrong with you? I just told him to take it easy on you.
So what?
She definitely dug her own grave with her plan. She wanted Kenny out of the picture so she either was expecting to be able to do it herself, or she wanted Clem to do her dirty work. When she had the knife to her throat she could call off the whole thing by telling the truth. She didn't. She was waiting for Clem to kill Kenny when Jane herself told Clem to stay out of it. My Clem did just that. She stayed out of it. Jane has only herself to blame for her death.
I think Kenny was a great guy and all, and he did alot of things to help Clementine, but I also think that peoples relation to Kenny, AS Lee in season 1 skewed their perception of him in season 2, I based my opinion of Kenny from Clems perspective, and while Lee and Kenny were great friends, Clem barely knew the guy, I mostly stayed neutral, both in season 1 and season 2, so I always supported who I thought was right, or if they were both wrong, I would not get mixed up.
I like the alone ending, which is the one I got, I had my doubts about Kenny throughout the entirety of season 2, I was happy to see him, but he was turning into something, where I could not follow him, so when it came down to it, I put Kenny down, while it was not an easy decision, I had to think of Clems safety, yes, Kenny always had Clems safety in mind, but seeing how he went off on Jane, there is no way I could be sure he would not snap at Clem one day. I also think that his dying goodbye is a sad, but great moment for him, because he realizes what he became, and he thanks Clem for what she did.
That being said, as soon as Jane revealed her plan, and that AJ was alive, I left her sorry ass in the cold, she was the conduit, it was all her fault, the argument between Kenny and Jane didnt have to happen, Jane acted very selfishly, and for that, I will never forgive her, I thought Jane was a decent person, who had been broken by the losses she had sustained, but as opposed to Kenny, she chose to bury her loss deep within herself, and survive, but Kenny got consumed by his loss.
Started, instigated, it's the same thing. She knew how Kenny was broken and she intentionally pushed him over the edge by faking AJ's death, the one thing that kept him going at that point. That's a terrible thing to do. Whatever her intentions were. When she used the knife on Kenny and he was defenseless, she charged at him and even pushes Clem out of the way when she tried to stop her. She wanted a fight and she had no intentions of stopping. Turns out things didn't go her way and she ended up losing the fight, which was when she could still stop it all by revealing the truth. The fact that she was willing to let Clem go through the trauma of killing the last person alive from her first group is just diabolic. Kenny's actions were clouded by anger, he couldn't control himself, but Jane knew exactly what she was doing the whole time. That's far worse in my book.
Oh I'm sorry it's hard for me to see that when all you've done is give me shit this whole thread.
I just understand why you've had to be so inconsiderate and rude...
So she doesn't get worried before hand?
Yeah I'd think it'll be best if you just stopped commenting, we clearly have differnet opinions and I personally don't like your attitude, let's just leave it if you can't talk nicely.
Lol Are you serious? You say they don't take anyone's opinions seriously and then you call THEIR opinion wrong? You started this discussion. You wanted to know why people like Kenny and why Jane doesn't get a lot of love. People are giving their opinions, there's nothing wrong in having a discussion on why you don't agree with this or that and explain how you view it. Just because you see it in a different way, doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong.
Everything said here is almost perfectly correct and extremely valid, however I wouldn't say it was 'ALL' her fault. The argument didn't have to happen you're right don't get me wrong, she instigated it and that's not right. However kenny started the argument, she instigated and he started, pushing blame on to both parties, I'd say. But yeah apart from that, you're spot on.
Yeah, yeah, coming from a guy who just told me to grow up for no reason.
How about YOU leave if you don't have anything nice to say? I didn't even tell you shit
What's even the point when she just finds out anyway?
I never even said your opinion sucks. Why are you making so many invalid points?
Not true.
So Clementine hearing the gun is worse then Jane hanging herself, reanimating, possibly getting loose and attacking Clem and AJ if she did? What the hell?!
Kenny also pushed Clem out of the way and he also intended to kill someone from the group, you arguement to backing up kenny also can back up Jane, Kenny ran at Jane when she was defenceless, he also pushed Clem out the way and also intended on killing someone. And you say she had no intention of stopping, she tried stopping straight away when she intiatally put her knife away, after that I saw it as she was defending herself.
That's all I've said this whole time! Everyone is entitiles to their opinion! I've not said anyone's opinion is wrong, I've even vouched the fact that their isn't a wrong answer, it's how people look at the situations given about the characters, so I don't know where that came from!
I leave my own discussion? How about you don't come in here and try starting for no reason, how about that.
That's the choice Jane made.
I don't know what Janes reasoning was, I'm not the character myself.
Why are you continuing to comment when I've politely asked you to not say anything else negative since we're not going to get anywhere with it.
How isn't it? I didn't agree with how you felt so you decided to come to this thread cause trouble... I've said you can have your opinion and I'd respect it, if you respected what I had to say too, which you clearly didn't.
Politely? You just told me to grow up.
Because somewhere in his mind he assumed that Jane killed aj in cold blood, hence him calling her a baby killer
Sighs
You are obviously very new here. You'll actually find on these forums that more people dislike Kenny than like him but other places on the web it is different so i am not sure why you think this.
Anyway in response to your post (and i am sure gonna have a field day here):
It was more the fact people were surprised and happy that he had survived after the noble thing he did in saving Christa or trying to save Ben. People thought he was dead and a lot of people who were fans or neutral were happy to see him and also given that he was a season 1 character which brought on the so called feels.
Lol he's not "looked up to" by everyone but everyone views him differently. Some, like me respect him for reasons I have stated many times in the past.
You see that to me is just a guy being honest about his feelings. Sure it comes across as rude but he tells you exactly what he thinks of you or in the given situation. He says things that people don't want to hear. And yep if you disagree with him on things he treats you differently and that is how his character was made by Telltale to love or hate him. I wonder if you have actually seen the game if your Lee and Kenny are friends instead of enemies.
It's very different and may give you another perspective
Lol um?? Please highlight when Kenny scolded Lee for swearing in front of Clem??? That's laughable considering he and many others swear in front of her and i know he didn't ever tell Lee "don't swear in front of Clem". So Im really not sure why you are making this up.
And now i must ask you to look at it from his point of view instead of being one dimensional (no offence intended btw). You say you understand that he just lost "his girl Sarita" but if you did understand you would get why he reacted horribly to Clem. Yes other people have lost their loved ones too but everyone is different and deals with grief differently and unfortunately, the way he deals with grief is in an angry way. Some cry, some want to be alone, there are many different reasons. I didn't like the way he treated her and it wasn't right but i forgave him because i know he didn't mean those horrible things he said to her. He apologised in the following episode for the things he said to her as well but i suppose you missed that scene.
Again refer to my above reply.
When someone is broken you shouldn't help break them further by being horrible back. 2 wrongs don't make a right. If i was there i would try to help someone i consider a friend, i would try to bring them back from the trauma he or she have gone through. As i said, everyone reacts differently and you need to understand that.
And now i must ask you, have you even asked yourself why he treats people in the group like crap? There is always a reason for why he does unlike Larry who was just a horrible fuck with every single sentence that came out of his gob. At least Kenny can be nice at times and even you should admit that. Everything Kenny did was always in his mind in the best interests for the group. Sure I admit that he didn't always think things through and rushed into decisions without thinking but the point is, the intention was there. He could have left the group to fend for themselves but he stayed. He got the RV working for not just his family but for everyone in the hopes they'd find somewhere better given the fact they were starving and being hounded by bandits every 5 seconds. Same in season 2, he gets a truck working for the group, not himself, but the group. You question why he treats people like crap yeah? Well if i did those things and people moaned at me for not wanting to do this and that then I would be pretty pissed off too. You see i am trying to give you another perspective to his character. Not changing your opinion, its fine you don't like him, but i wanted to share that despite the way he treats people sometimes, he is still someone who does what he feels is right for others.
He isn't in your eyes just because he only appears horrible but as i said earlier, look at the reasons behind his actions and maybe you'll consider the view that everything he does is always in the interest of other people and not just himself. For example, he'll scold Lee if he decides not to feed his son OR Clementine which shows that he cares about the wellbeing of kids before himself. Same in season 2, when AJ was born, Kenny made the baby Clem the number 1 priority. People like yourself just view him as like an enemy just because he can be an asshole but never look past that and see the good things about him or the reasons why as to why he can be nasty.
Again you show how new you are here because on this website, more people seemingly like Jane but in other places on the web they don't.
If she understood this then she wouldn't have done the evil thing she did at the end of season 2. If she was any sort of decent person she'd try to help a grieving unstable person or respect the feelings of the little girl she was trying to force the decision on making over her unstable friend.
Lol sorry but i am shaking my head here but your opinion of course but this was funny.
Well i'd love to hear your reasons as to why you think this!! Please explain.
Exactly my earlier point.
Yes, yes it is a very valid excuse.
Lol you just don't get it do you? As i said everyone deals with grief differently. Not everyone is going to act like Kenny did of course not. You again just seem to look in a straight line about this. Did you ever consider that he received some slight brain damage after what Carver did to him? Bet you didn't consider that did you? I personally don't think that was the case but losing his whole family, his determinant best friend (Lee) and then Sarita and even when Rebecca died, i just think all those deaths messed him up. It affected him more than others and that's that. Everyone is different. Clem certainly appears colder than she did in season 3 previously though so being alone for so long has obviously hardened her.
Please look up the term psychotic. A psycho does not have a conscience yet Kenny showed numerous times throughout season 1 and 2 that he did. I admit he was on edge and going off the rails but as the Wellington ending and flashback in season 3 showed, Kenny obviously wasn't as psychotic as you make him out to be. Again as i have said to you, grief is something that can affect people in different ways and with some people it is much more severe than with others. I hope you can appreciate what i am trying to say the times i have repeated this.
Overreacting?? Ok, if you had just had an argument in the truck exchanging hurtful things to each other, almost crashing, how would you feel about said person? Kenny never trusted Jane from the start and you know what, he was right not to. Even though he shouldn't have outright assumed Jane killed the baby, she went out of her way to make it seem like he was dead claiming it was an accident which turned out to be an outright lie all just to rile him up. I mean that's just sick and if you think that was an ok thing to do hiding a baby in a freezing cold car, alone, where walkers could have found a way in through the gap in the window,!then all the negative comments you have stated about Kenny is fucking laughable quite frankly when what she did is just as fucked up if not worse. I'd also like to point out the other reasons why Kenny didn't trust Jane. She left the group in episode 4 and was going to leave without telling anyone if Clem hadn't seen her. That to me was a very selfish act. She indirectly caused the Russians to ambush the group because she threatened Arvo with the gun whether you stole from him or not. Despite Kenny being offscreen, she constantly referred to AJ as an "it" making it seem like she didn't give a shit about him at all. She even asked Rebecca "what are you going to do with it" even before the baby was born implying she should get rid of it. It's things like this why Kenny didn't trust her and can be assumed he found out these things later. He even says "she didn't want the baby around" so he must have been informed of the way Jane was.
That's not the main reason everybody hates her at all. Let me list the reasons I dislike Jane for:
In episode 3 she tells the group to smear themselves with walker guts. She says the line "You guys better get to smearing if you wanna live...or you can die here. Doesn't matter to me. Saying that shows she didn't care about the others wellbeing and only cared for herself.
She left her sister to die because she didn't want to be saved. Ok, i get it, they were cornered on a roof, she couldn't throw her or seemingly do anything physically to save her. Is this the truth? We will never know but we can assume this wasn't one of her lies on this occasion. I don't actually dislike Jane for this anyway because it wasn't her fault.
Jane constantly pressured Clem into leaving Sarah back at the trailer. The scene obviously reminded her of her sister not wanting to live. However the situation was different, Sarah could be saved where as with Jane's sister, they were trapped on the roof and could not be saved. I felt Jane's treatment of Sarah was wrong and should have done more to help her instead of "let's go you can't force her Clem". It just bothered me that she would be willing to leave Sarah like that without really trying when they had at least a bit of time to do so.
If Sarah was saved at the trailer, she AGAIN didn't want to save her after the deck collapsed. If Clem asks her to save Sarah, Jane will say "are you crazy, there's no getting to her. Pull me up". It's more so the attitude from her more than anything. I do appreciate the fact if you stay silent she'll go down to try and help her but regardless, it's her unwillingness to be selfless in that situation. Even Clem can say "you didn't even want to try and save her. Don't pretend your sorry".
As stated earlier, she leaves the group in episode 4 which comes across as very selfish especially as she would have left without saying anything to anyone. Sure she came back in the next episode but what's to say she didn't come back out of guilt? She was indirectly responsible for the Russian attack.n
When Luke was trapped under the ice, still alive and trying to get out, Jane was insisting on Clem to give up, that he couldn't be saved. I get why she was saying that, for Clem's safety and allnbut if it was me I would do everything in my power to try and save my friend especially knowing he was still alive trying to get out from under the ice. Again it's more her uninterested reaction to the situation and felt that leaving him was more important than trying to save him.
Hiding AJ in a freezing cold car just to prove a point to a little girl that her friend was dangerous when he was angry. Except doing what she did she ended up putting THREE lives in danger, herself, AJ's and Clementine being stuck in the middle. Sure, i get why Jane did what she did but whilst it was an unselfish thing she did for Clem's best interest in her eyes, it was actually selfish to AJ who did not deserve such treatment and it was just an evil thing to do to try and anger an already suffering man by making him think she had killed the baby. In my opinion Kenny would never have hurt Clem. He saw her as Duck's replacement. He even says in season 3 "you're the best second chance I could ask for" which meant being like a father again.
These are just some of the reasons i do not like her.
Oh but he did wait for a response in which she responded "he's..." said in a very sad emotional way, a star studded acting performance in the way she delivered the line where as her response didn't need answering as she made it seem like AJ was dead from the way she said "he's...". Watch the scene again, you'll see what i mean.
Again what you fail to grasp is this. AJ was the one last true thing Kenny cared about besides Clem. He delivered Rebecca's baby, you could even say that he adopted him once Rebecca died. So say for arguments sake, AJ was Kenny's adopted son. What Jane did was make it appear that she had killed or left Kenny's adopted child to die. Are you telling me you wouldn't go ballistic and think the same thing if you didn't like nor trust this woman who had your child with her? I wouldn't call him crazy for running out to look for him. You think he's going to return and ask her calmly what happened despite the fact he already asked her and she deliberately hinted that AJ was dead so why ask again? She'd then lie again anyway.
No, what would have prevented the fight is Jane not pulling a fucking stupid stunt that she did to make him angry. If she hadn't done what she did then everything would have been fine. She was to blame for getting the ball rolling. She knew how he'd react and that he'd try to kill her, she even admits it when they are fighting on the ground by saying "i knew you would". Its funny how you make it seem like Jane is the victim here when if you actually look at the situation deeper, you'll see that she isn't innocent in all this either. What Kenny was doing was wrong but what she did was equally wrong and if you can't admit that then there is no point discussing this scene further with you.
Again refer to what I said earlier, if your child or someone you really cared about was missing and the person responsible (Jane) acted like the baby was dead how would you react? You'd be furious. You'd do more than shout at someone if the one thing you loved was taken away from you cruelly in such a way made you believe said person (Jane) had killed or caused to die. Ok, resorting to violence wouldn't be the first thing that would normally occur no and It's not right and I'm not justifying his actions for that but that's where Kenny's mental state comes into it, Jane set him off knowing he was on edge. Kenny is like a beast that needs to be tamed, if you tame the beast, he's harmless. Also i would argue that to begin with Kenny was only trying to hurt Jane but later on after they fight outside the rest stop, it became a fight to the death.
Yes and why did she put the weapon away? Because she wanted Clem to see her do that so it makes her look innocent. Quite smart of her actually but i saw through her bullshit. It's a shame a lot of people fell for her tactic. She knew he would attack her once she put the knife away. She had to make it look more convincing that Kenny would attack her.
No it doesn't but it sure would make her a liar if she had said that and Kenny still wouldn't believe her. He says to Clem later "she never wanted the baby around, she made that clear" which then brings me to the point i made earlier when she implied to Rebecca that she should get rid of the baby once it's been born, calling the baby an it and things like that. Kenny made assumption based on her past actions and after she made it seem like AJ was dead he accused her of killing him so yes he called her a murderer. He had no proof we know this and it was wrong in that sense to immediately accuse her of being a murderer. But all she had to was to confess what she had done, to say the baby was ok and Kenny would not have reacted how he did. You must see this? What if AJ had never cried to alert Clem that he was still alive? Would Jane have told Clem where he was or kept quiet and left making her believe AJ was dead just so they wouldn't have a noisy baby to deal with? Also what if Kenny kills Jane? Him or Clementine would never have known AJ was hidden away and they would have assumed he was dead and left and that innocent child would have frozen and starved to death all because she wouldn't confess what she was up to.
I disagree that his actions in EVERY situation was uncalled for. Some yes but not all.
You really show your ignorance by saying Jane is innocent in all this. I already explained above why she wasn't innocent either. In fact,
I'd say that's much better than telling you to fuck off.
You really show your ignorance by saying Jane is innocent in all this. I already explained above why she wasn't innocent either. In fact, you go on about Kenny trying to kill her when she was doing the same damn thing. When she first slashed him with the knife, they go outside, Kenny is backing off at this point. Tell me, why doesn't Jane back down? She could have right? She had the upperhand, she had the knife. Instead she charges towards Kenny with the knife. How is that not trying to kill him either? Or raking at his eyes? They were both trying to kill each other at that point and if you can't see both sides of the coin then i think you should seriously watch/play that scene a few more times and be less biased.
Er no? He doesn't think she's innocent at all. Are you honestly suggesting he was trying to kill her because he just wanted to for fun or something? He didn't think she was innocent which is why he so angry. What are you trying to say here?
Lol no shit!
Haha completely disagree. Of course in your game you obviously saw the worst side of him i suppose but not in mine.
Again your misuse of the word psychotic. It is wrong in this context and I won't repeat what i said earlier.
So putting AJ's life in danger makes her less dangerous than Kenny yeah? At least you know what you get with Kenny. Clem had known Jane for what? 3-5 days since Carver's place? Clem had known Kenny for a hell of a lot longer than Jane. I would rather trust someone I don't like than someone i hardly know especially in an apocalyptic world like that. Besides, I wouldn't trust Jane if i found out she had done what she did to make her sickening point. It annoys me as well that Jane didn't even ask Clem what she wanted to do, to either go with her or stay with Kenny. Instead she just forces her into the decision. Clem knows the man Kenny really he is at heart and that his violent actions were always brought on for a reason and NEVER for no reason at all (which by the way is what a REAL psychopath would do).
Oh god haha so you even find something to nit pick here as well. Let's see here, so she's 13 and what? Are we following law guidelines that she's not old enough to drive? Lol. You don't get very far on foot you know. At least what Kenny did was sensible in trying to teach her how to drive, to be able to get place to place easier. Sure it didn't turn out well but shit happens. This was just a really lame nit pick im sorry but it was.
This is really disrespectful and makes it sound like you are provoking Kenny fans to attack you. Your comment in itself is an attack on Kenny fans and yet you are hoping we don't?
Not necessarily. It depends on how you first perceive them. First impressions count for everything. To some people their first impressions of Kenny aren't good. Like they will dislike him for not trying to help save Shawn Greene yet there are other people who will look at it in a way that he made a mistake or understand that he was looking out for his son, something any parent would have done. Some people (such as me) are more forgiving of his actions and attitude as a character where as others hold things against him and just don't like him. He is one of the best written characters ever in any game i have ever played and it's a shame Telltale will probably never create another like him.
Anyway thanks for reading and i am sorry it being so long winded. I don't mean to offend you in anything i say but we also have strong opinions as to why I don't agree with you on Kenny but it is your opinion and welcome to the Telltale forums.
That's what I even said above!!!!!! I said you can have your opinion.
I don't care, that's still an insult.
Okay... what do you want an apology?
Yes and I'll leave you alone.
Are you done yet? I think I've 3 times now that you'd stop trying to continue the argument, that'd be nice, thank you.
Yeah that's not happening, I'm not going to apologise for you being rude.
Shame on you.
Thanks for the welcoming, and yeah you seem very opinionated like myself, not afraid to voice what you think, fair play man.
Because you were rude it's a shame on me? Okay.
Give me locations where I was fucking rude, kiddo.
Well you started by involving yourself negatively into this thread, I didn't start with you, you chose to come here and disagree, which is okay, if you disagreed in a polite manner, which you clearly didn't. I've asked many times for you to stop instigating this argument politely, yet you've refused the offer and continued to comment negatively, which isn't what I wanted when I created the discussion. So for the 4th time, I'd really appreciate if you'd stop commenting negatively, If you can be polite about things then please stay, if you don't you can manage that, then please leave me alone, thank you.