What do you do when your fav toddler is sick?
Apparently you inject him with an unknown medicine.
83,8% of players:
This is the choice I was the most shocked with. I thought it would be the other way around. I don't know even how to explain it? Did you panic, or made that decision in the spur of the moment? Clicked on it by mistake? You literally had the doctor say it won't help. Considering AJ is around 2 years old, he is nowhere near old enough to be taking up such doses of medicine. I doubt Clementine even knew how to make a proper shot. The syringe should be clean and the shot shouldn't go through clothes.
Toddlers require a special care and extreme caution when dealing with their health, and bad or inappropriate treatment could very easily cause serious complications or even death. Why on gods name would you trust a word scribbled on a piece of paper? I've done some digging, and I found the real use of vancomycin. It's a strong antibiotic used mainly for skin problems, or heart's and kidney's infections. It's considered dangerous to give it to children, elders or nursing women. Quick application can easily cause cardiac arrest, also it should be used in the very small doses, and Clementine filled this damn syringe straight up full. I would hesitate to give it to a grown up man.
Worrying over the loved one - especially in Clem's situation - can befuddle the common sense and the panic causes unlogical and desperate choices, but for the love of boat, you don't go running around and you definitely do not inject toddlers with random fluids.
It would be interesting if AJ's status was determinant based on the choice of giving him the medicine or not.
Comments
The medicine was for his condition, but they said it wouldn't help because he would die anyway. The choice was more of a "give up when it's pretty obvious he's not going to make it" or not. There was no way you could know that medicine isn't safe for toddlers, and that's the point. You don't know if it will actually help, but it's a last ditch effort. Is it worth it? You decided it wasn't.
I didn't give him the medicine because I agree with TNF logic. If it wasn't going to help AJ and it could save another life that can actually contribute then that's where meds go.
I'm not a former Crawford resident but lets be honest. a 3 year old (whether sick or not) isn't exactly a pillar of a community
Having said that I also spat in David's face as opposed to saying goodbye. Mainly because I don't care about AJ and I have a very strong dislike for David. I'd prefer if his character could be killed very graphically (preferably by the player and not a cutscene/walker)
This whole scene was kind of a mess, so don't blame the player completely here. Clementine has this scrap of paper that had the name of some medicine. Never really explained where she got that name and what exactly was wrong with AJ. So just had to assume Clem knew what she was doing and hope they explain it a little later (the game never did though). Then she injects the needle through AJ's clothes, WTF!? I didn't think she would do that. In the end it didn't matter one single bit, because AJ lives no matter what. Now everyone is telling Clem he's a lost cause, but they ain't doctors and the only doctor there is high as shit. Then they take him away from Clem for stupid reasons that make no sense.
Well first off, it wasn't an unknown medicine. Clem had the name written down, someone clearly already told her what AJ needed. Probably the doctor. Second of all, the doctor was high as a fucking kite and seemed to be on thin ice with David. Wouldn't be surprised if the doctor was giving up on AJ because hes high all the time or lying because he had already been using too many of the drugs himself. Third of all, it's freaking AJ and Clem. Clem loves that boy more than anyone and obviously isn't some medical expert. She's just doing the right thing with the information presented to her.
I kind of see it as another theft choice.
Do you steal from someone else for someone you care about or not?
The mechanics of the scene are questionable. But the larger question of do I Steal the medicine that has a chance of saving my kid or not, seems very cut and dry to me. I steal the medicine and know that I at least did everything I could to save him. Its not a question of triage here, there are no mass casualties occurring at that moment, nobody is going to immediately die because I stole it. If some unknown person in the future may die because he doesn't have the meds, its a tragic thing and totally my fault, but I don't care, I'm gonna try every possible thing I can to heal my kid. The Greater Good vs the Immediate Good is a grey area, but I usually come down on the side of the Immediate Good, because the Greater Good is not always the correct choice either.
So you're saying this wasn't unknown medicine because Clementine can totally rely on a piece of paper? What if it has got "chloroform" written on it, assuming Clem wouldn't know what that means? I agree she was desperate, but come on. What if she mistook the bottle with something different, what if she read the name wrong or lost her precious paper and had to guess which one was right? You don't just jump straight to random syringe and inject it, especially in the middle of the apocalypse, when you should be more careful and logical.
For the same reason in Season 1:
Desperation: Did you remove Lee's arm?
How are you going to cut your fucking arm when you are in an empty place, surrounded by walkers that could go in any minute, and you need yourself at full strength to save Clementine? cutting the arm was something that should have happened immediately after getting bit, not after, and a normal person after that kind of cut is going to feel like shit, worse than a bit of fever.
If Lee, a 37 years old teacher, can do the irresponsible thing of mutilating himself when he needs to save a little girl, then Clem, a 13 years old kid, can act in desperation and not let AJ die.
But he wasn't exactly dying, wasn't he? He was strong enough to cry, to grin, to even speak. People on the verge of death don't do that. Clem said that she had tried everything, so AJ's sickness has been going for some time now, and he still was alive enough to move his head, arms, etc., when really sick toddler would just lie lifeless barely breathing.
Well, Lee being alone was one of the many outcomes, so in most cases Lee would be with other people who could help him handle it (more or less, Ben just fukin' faints). And it wasn't so irresponsible to begin with. He strongly believed cutting an infected arm would buy him some time, but he knew he would die, just a little later. With Clementine, she tries to keep AJ alive.
They are both sacrifices for someone life.
After all Clem got kicked and if we believe her exaggeration, the NF "left her to die", she knew what was risking, and if the shot could have killed AJ, well, he was supposed to die anyway, she couldn't just sit there, at least not a Clementine that really cares about AJ, after all, drug or not, she says:
"I thought he was going to be the one.. finally. The one who didn't die"
I don't think that would make sense if she just lets him die.
It's pretty clear that the doctor had been looking at AJ and had diagnosed him. I can almost guarantee that Clem took the name from his notes and diagnosis. As far as Clem taking the wrong medicine, she reads all of the labels carefully and clearly. If you choose medicine other than the vancomycin she reads them first and puts them back. And lastly she definitely didn't automatically jump to the syringe and just fill it up with whatever. In my game I looked at the syringe first and she said "I hope i dont have to use that". I looked at every other pill bottle before the vancomycin before she reluctantly realized that AJ's medicine had to be administered via syringe. I see what you're trying to say but Clem clearly takes precaution, especially considering she is under the stress of being caught stealing at any moment. Plus she is taking medicine from a well supplied doctors tent, not a trash can or something unhygenic.
And chloroform? Really dude?
What if she killed him with that vaccine? If we found out that that choice decided about AJ's status, and the "inject" choice was actually bad? Maybe doing nothing - "letting him die" would naturally help his organism recover without the influence of strong drugs.
If she knew in the first place she had to use that specific drug, then is because the Doctor may have said something like that was the only cure, but since he was so weak it would do nothing to him, there are a lot of variables, and Clem isn't exactly stupid.
It was pretty much stated that he was going to die by the doctor. He said that the medicine wouldn't help AJ so there was no point in using it. That scene should have been set up better, it was pretty ambiguous when it shouldn't have been. Who even gave the paper to Clementine anyway?
I understand, however it still was too dangerous for me to do it.
What Clementine should've done was to calm down and collect her thoughts, as any experienced survivor should be able to do. She could've left AJ somewhere else, then sneak up to that camp, steal the medicine and head back; there was no reason for her to risk that much. Similar situation happened in the Cabin, when Clem had to sew up her arm. She didn't do it straight after she found the supplies, crouching in the bathroom or something. She's gathered all the needed supplies, being thoughtful and smart, then used the best of them in the safest environment she could find, after she figured out what do to.
There was no use for bringing AJ with her, as he wasn't dying in her arms. It was just for the show, for that scene to be dramatic, tearful and intense, also for AJ to speak.
Chloroform was a joke. And I'm a dudette.
I wouldn't have injected him because I know Telltale doesn't have the balls to kill off a toddler.
I don't think it was her handwriting, so she most likely stole it from somewhere. But how and when, if she got kicked out from Richmond? No idea.
I can eventually blame the writing.
I had the same thought about AJ's status after the medicine scene.
What if injecting an unknown medicine into AJ ends up killing him before Clementine finds him again in the next episode or the finale, when the majority thought that it would have saved his life? Just like how from Amid the Ruins, the majority had thought that chopping off Sarita's infected arm in the middle of a walker herd would save her, but had ended up killing her instead?
That's what I was thinking, it's also weird choice of words when the crowd play says: "You didn't risk using the medicine". Why risk, if everyone was A-agreed that injection will help?
I was thinking about that as well. If Clem had left after getting the medicine and administered it somewhere else then Ava wouldnt have caught her. I do think she made the right call by bringing AJ, it is better than leaving him alone in the woods where anything could have happened. Worst case he gets abducted or eaten, best case he gets hypothermia from being in the snow without blankets or warmth.
I know it was a joke, it is just absurd to imagine Clem giving AJ chloroform lol. And sorry about that dudette I didn't realize
I think Clementine knew how to leave AJ alone without having him exposed to danger or scared, I mean it's been years and she had to wonder off sometimes, a baby would only be a ticking bomb in some situations.
It's okay, it's mainly the username's fault, don't worry.
I'm not so sure about that. The only time that we saw Clem leave him alone, he gets upset and attracts walkers which leads to Clem losing a finger. Idk, personally if it were MY baby I would never leave them alone in those conditions.
And yeah, it's mainly your profile picture throwing me off. Is that... baby face Lee?
So you wait for a toddler to stop moving before you try the best you can? That's what I call "sick".
She's probably been avoiding these situations to constantly keep an eye on AJ, but I bet that at one point she had to sneak up somewhere, scout ahead or check unfamiliar surroundings, and it would be best to do it alone first and eventually get back instead to get trapped or something.
It's Lee without his stubble; almost 3 years here and people are still getting confused.
So you refuse to help an innocent toddler and rather leave him to die, because an adult, "a pillar of a community" >might< need it in the future? Your morals are soo great. So you go with that heartless "only the strong survive" bullshit, right? Crawford fits you perfectly.
I was responding to a comment talking about medicine not making a difference as AJ would still end up dead. Please do not take something out of context.
I injected him for two reasons:
1. They were saying this because a toddler is no help to a group, basically it's a 'let him die, for someone who is older'
2. Doctor was CLEARLY high, the way he spoke I doubt he meant what he said, I wouldn't be surprised if he has looked after AJ.
I guess I played it as a 14 year old girl with no medical knowledge? To me the choice was either "Save AJ," or "Let AJ Die." If I can save mah baby then fuck everyone else! I also spat in Davids face... cause I'm an asshole. lol
Well guess what, it saved his fucking life.
We don't really know that for sure since we haven't seen him alive in the present time.
...fair point.
It's not out of context. It's what you wrote. Try to explain yourself better when making a point.
A better question: How is Clem able to read the medicine? She only has a first grade education. Rivaroxaban and vancomycin that incredible that she can pronounce those words and able to spell vancomydin.(assuming that is her handwriting on the paper.)
Very good point, I think TT totally overlooked the issue of Clem skipping basic education.
Read the comment I replied to, then my answer.
@Yellowsno above assumed that giving the medicine or putting it back will result the same outcome, therefore nothing matters as AJ will die anyway. I said the two options are different, because I couldn't see any direct indication that AJ was straight up going to die, so I pointed out how would really sick toddler react. By confronting this behavior with current AJ status, I say he wasn't any close to dying, so the medicine Clementine injected him could've done more harm than good.
I don't understand why you're looking for a fight, this is just a discussion.
I gave AJ the medicine because, while I have no knowledge of medicine as I'm sure Clem doesn't either. The bit of paper she had told me she had found a medical book of some kind and ripped out the medicine name because trying to remember the name of a specific medicine can be tough. Besides, just like with the arm choice in season 1, it was worth it to see it would work than to not try at all.
I understand your choice, however this time is wasn't the life of a man who was willingly going to sacrifice himself, but the life of a baby.
We as a player could only trust Clem's knowledge of AJ's condition. She seemed desperate and sure that AJ would die if he didn't get the antibiotics. Also the doctor was talking shit ("I can feel it when somebody has to die"?), he didn't give any reasoning as to why it wouldn't help (didn't say it was dangerous either).
My main problem with this injection business was, that Clem didn't just take the stuff and left. It was clear AJ was going to cry and everybody would hear them + she would have had time to be more careful, roll up his sleeve, clean the syringe, give him smaller and more doses, etc.