assuming AJ was dying, if I knew injecting him would give him "a peaceful way out", I would definietly do it, but we don't really know from what he was sick. I wouldn't use it as a precaution, it did seem like a super strong medicine which would take down a horse and AJ is just a small baby boy. I don't even know are babies are supposed to take injections of this kind of medicine? And how did Clem know how to make a proper injection? i wouldn't.. Also that syringe looked gross as hell.
It seems like a matter of preference imo. If didn't know what it does and cared about aj you'd give it to him because you thought it would help despite what the doctor said. The doctor who was high. If you dislike david and don't care about aj you'd spit in david's face and wouldn't inject aj with the medicine. Like someone said they did in their post. If you were aware about what it does and it's effects and cared about aj you wouldn't give it to him. If you were aware of what it does and the side effects and didn't like aj you'd give it to him in hopes it would end him. Etc.
At the time when ANF was announced there were many sites that had released stills from the game when it became available to pre-order. The one with AJ and Clem in particular being one of my favourite pictures in all of The Walking Dead games, observing the episode 4 teaser picture as well as the other one, I noticed the little similarities in the settings of both pictures (The second is a screen-capture of the background of episode 4, and was the best I could find). In the episode 4 image (screen capture) it looks like there is a mass shoot-out going on in Richmond. Although many changes have been done to the final script, the area of Richmond has stayed the same. David's outburst ending in episode 3, makes sense for the start of the attack on Richmond - so to see the other picture of AJ and Clem gives me the impression that moment in time is during the mass shoot-out of Richmond at the end of episode 3, going into episode 4. I think this due to Clem saying she'd go and find AJ if he's in Richmond. If this is the case there's a high chance that AJ is still alive in episode 4.
--- Just from my observations --- http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/99/walkingdead_1819913b.jpg?sid=7e9aadbfe30ef4a1ab46efb20076fa7c http://i.imgur.com/eeOQIhG.jpg
We as a player could only trust Clem's knowledge of AJ's condition. She seemed desperate and sure that AJ would die if he didn't get the ant… moreibiotics. Also the doctor was talking shit ("I can feel it when somebody has to die"?), he didn't give any reasoning as to why it wouldn't help (didn't say it was dangerous either).
My main problem with this injection business was, that Clem didn't just take the stuff and left. It was clear AJ was going to cry and everybody would hear them + she would have had time to be more careful, roll up his sleeve, clean the syringe, give him smaller and more doses, etc.
Just because a 3 year old isn't a pillar of a community, doesn't mean he should die. Honestly, logistically thinking about it, toddlers and babies are the absolute most important things in a zombie apocalypse. There's so few of them, how on earth is there even going to be a next generation? If you have a hundred 30 year olds and one 3 year old, you better fucking save that 3 year old to take care of those 30 year olds when/if they ever get too old to take care of themselves.
I didn't give him the medicine because I agree with TNF logic. If it wasn't going to help AJ and it could save another life that can actuall… morey contribute then that's where meds go.
I'm not a former Crawford resident but lets be honest. a 3 year old (whether sick or not) isn't exactly a pillar of a community
Having said that I also spat in David's face as opposed to saying goodbye. Mainly because I don't care about AJ and I have a very strong dislike for David. I'd prefer if his character could be killed very graphically (preferably by the player and not a cutscene/walker)
You have to understand Clem didn't know what we know, she was 100% convinced that he was going to die, since everyone was telling her that. Injecting him as a last resort would be better than to just let him die.
What if she killed him with that vaccine? If we found out that that choice decided about AJ's status, and the "inject" choice was actually b… moread? Maybe doing nothing - "letting him die" would naturally help his organism recover without the influence of strong drugs.
I injected the medicine because I thought Clem know about it based on her interaction with other medicine; she was not stupid and previous seasons implied so.
That's not exactly fair of you, it's a moral grey zone - do you give a toddler you care about medicine you steal from a group that a doctor states won't help or do you keep hold of it for the chance of coming across a situation where it will help, both sides are understandable to an extent. You might keep the medicine and it turns out if could've saved AJ, that is true but you might also decide to give it to AJ and it becomes the reason he dies, we can only wait and see.
So you refuse to help an innocent toddler and rather leave him to die, because an adult, "a pillar of a community" >might< need it in … morethe future? Your morals are soo great. So you go with that heartless "only the strong survive" bullshit, right? Crawford fits you perfectly.
I couldn't take the risk myself. I had no idea what the hell vaconymmemnfffghfd does and the doctor was, despite being high, seemed aware of the possible repercussions and it's possible Clem be wrong on this and be acting irrationally. We don't know where she got that information and what AJ is sick with. Telltale seems dead serious about their choice making, especially with this recent episode, so it's possible that one option may lead to AJ's recovery or death. (What you brought up about what the medicine does makes me more confident of my choice). I'm still unsure if I can David's word about AJ yet (whom I've been surprisingly siding with a lot with a few exceptions recently, I'm impressed with his character arc.).
(That doesn't mean I want the baby dead. With AJ now being with Lingard maybe he can look at him again and find a more appropriate treatment)
Turns out as usual the choice matters for shit ss AJ seems to have recovered regardless if of course David isn't lying.
Btw does anyone know what was exactly wrong with AJ? How was he dying? Where did this all come about?
I couldn't take the risk myself. I had no idea what the hell vaconymmemnfffghfd does and the doctor was, despite being high, seemed aware of… more the possible repercussions and it's possible Clem be wrong on this and be acting irrationally. We don't know where she got that information and what AJ is sick with. Telltale seems dead serious about their choice making, especially with this recent episode, so it's possible that one option may lead to AJ's recovery or death. (What you brought up about what the medicine does makes me more confident of my choice). I'm still unsure if I can David's word about AJ yet (whom I've been surprisingly siding with a lot with a few exceptions recently, I'm impressed with his character arc.).
(That doesn't mean I want the baby dead. With AJ now being with Lingard maybe he can look at him again and find a more appropriate treatment)
Even if he dies, doing something is better than doing nothing at all.
It's like a car accident. You have NO idea how first aid works. Do you just stand there and wait? No. You do everything you can, even with the possibility to break someone's ribs during CPR or something else.
That's not exactly fair of you, it's a moral grey zone - do you give a toddler you care about medicine you steal from a group that a doctor … morestates won't help or do you keep hold of it for the chance of coming across a situation where it will help, both sides are understandable to an extent. You might keep the medicine and it turns out if could've saved AJ, that is true but you might also decide to give it to AJ and it becomes the reason he dies, we can only wait and see.
Just because a 3 year old isn't a pillar of a community, doesn't mean he should die. Honestly, logistically thinking about it, toddlers and … morebabies are the absolute most important things in a zombie apocalypse. There's so few of them, how on earth is there even going to be a next generation? If you have a hundred 30 year olds and one 3 year old, you better fucking save that 3 year old to take care of those 30 year olds when/if they ever get too old to take care of themselves.
Besides, just like with the arm choice in season 1, it was worth it to see it would work than to not try at all.
I understand your c… morehoice, however this time is wasn't the life of a man who was willingly going to sacrifice himself, but the life of a baby.
Lee knew very well he was going to die, he did want to live a little longer just to save Clem. They took off his arm too late, I believed they even said so. With AJ, he was just sick and if it that choice even matters (which I doubt), it should determine his status.
Right but it's still the same concept.
Lose the arm and you might not go zombie, as proven in the comics a couple times.
Inject the ki… mored and he might live.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the subject was of either, the main goal of both was survival.
Wait what? So you would rush blindly to save someone when you know you have no medical knowledge and you'll most likely kill that person than help? It's like recklessly jumping to the water to help drowning person while having no idea how to swim. It's disservice. To stay alive, you think about consequences, about what can happen. If you're experienced survivor like Clem, you don't let panic to get you, she's been through so much and she had developed habits and thinking necessary to survive.
It's still an absolute miracle (or more likely bad writing) that she's managed to stay alive for 3 years with a newborn baby while having absolutely no idea how to handle babies' needs and still being a child herself.
Even if he dies, doing something is better than doing nothing at all.
It's like a car accident. You have NO idea how first aid works. Do … moreyou just stand there and wait? No. You do everything you can, even with the possibility to break someone's ribs during CPR or something else.
A huge problem with this flashback is there wasn't enough information conveyed to the player about what was going on. It's not something that should be up for interpretation, the writers just falied to do their jobs properly. Hell you couldn't even figure out what part in the time line this flash back was till the end of it and it seems TT skipped A LOT, especially if you chose to refuse Ava in the previous flashback about joining the New Frontier. The setting was also weird. Why is everything out in the open like a camp, where are we and why are we here? The whole thing was just executed poorly like the other flashbacks so they could get to the feels moment, being torn away from AJ.
And considering that Clementine used an syringe filled at the brim with Vancomycin, I'd be surprised if AJ doesn't end up suffering, or worse dying, from the horrid side effects of having too much of the drug (or any drug for that matter) in his systems.
Wait what? So you would rush blindly to save someone when you know you have no medical knowledge and you'll most likely kill that person tha… moren help? It's like recklessly jumping to the water to help drowning person while having no idea how to swim. It's disservice. To stay alive, you think about consequences, about what can happen. If you're experienced survivor like Clem, you don't let panic to get you, she's been through so much and she had developed habits and thinking necessary to survive.
It's still an absolute miracle (or more likely bad writing) that she's managed to stay alive for 3 years with a newborn baby while having absolutely no idea how to handle babies' needs and still being a child herself.
With the piece of paper Clem had I thought it was obvious that the vancomycin was a prescription given by the doctor, therefore it wasn't a unknown medicine and she knew this was the one she needed to save AJ with. The only problem I had was with the dosage, but since the doctor didn't correct her (despite him being high he was clearly concerned about the amount of medicine left and I feel would have told her if she was using too much) I trusted the provided context of the game even if it might not fly in realistic terms.
The game did not present the choice as "inject aj and risk killing him with Clem's limited knowledge", it was presented as "this can potentially save aj's live if not used otherwise however you are denying this medicine for another". Logistics of the scene be damned, it's the moral decision of what the player is presented with that matters to the statistical result.
How am I selfish, if by your logic you would kill someone rather than progressive help by thinking something through? What an argument to call other people names, we simply have different opinions, that's all. No need to be rude.
Another thing is, why NF even bothered to take AJ away from Clem if he was "dying" when they told her they wouldn't waste more resources to help him, meaning he would be dead very soon?
How is that making any sense, it seems to happen just for Clem and AJ to get separated and for AJ's status to remain unknown. Unless [inject] or [put back] choice has caused some major plot changes, actually killing or helping AJ, which would be an actual suprise and irrefutable argument for 'choices defining your story'.
Sometimes doing nothing is better than taking action, such as if the action is what causes or accelerates a loved ones death.
There's a difference with these two situations, on the one hand you have medicine that you have no idea how it will affect an infant with a doctor stating it won't aid him, on the other hand, you're in a car accident, you might not be able to do anything depending on the severity of a person's injuries, personally I would call an ambulance first and foremost so that they can offer the aid the crash victim needs and then I would apply the basic first aid that school had taught me and if there were other people around, there's a likely hood that they would aid as well, there are allot of factors to take in with every situation but deciding on whether to give unknown medicine to an infant and deciding what actions to take after witnessing a car accident are two very different things.
Even if he dies, doing something is better than doing nothing at all.
It's like a car accident. You have NO idea how first aid works. Do … moreyou just stand there and wait? No. You do everything you can, even with the possibility to break someone's ribs during CPR or something else.
Clementine had it written down but does she know what effects the medicine would have upon consumption? For all we know whoever told her what AJ needed could've been lying or even just guessing. We won't really know until the next couple episodes but this decision probably won't have an effect on the game, apart from one line of dialogue.
Well first off, it wasn't an unknown medicine. Clem had the name written down, someone clearly already told her what AJ needed. Probably the… more doctor. Second of all, the doctor was high as a fucking kite and seemed to be on thin ice with David. Wouldn't be surprised if the doctor was giving up on AJ because hes high all the time or lying because he had already been using too many of the drugs himself. Third of all, it's freaking AJ and Clem. Clem loves that boy more than anyone and obviously isn't some medical expert. She's just doing the right thing with the information presented to her.
Clementine had it written down but does she know what effects the medicine would have upon consumption? For all we know whoever told her wha… moret AJ needed could've been lying or even just guessing. We won't really know until the next couple episodes but this decision probably won't have an effect on the game, apart from one line of dialogue.
But we do know. And I believe that old players are still the majority in the whole fanbase. It could sorta be explained with Wellington ending, as it was shown that Clementine could write and read, but with the other endings it's just a huge plothole, unless NF somewhat happened to teach children basic stuff.
now that I'm thinking about it, AJ could have serious complications... thats why little children get smaller doses of medicine compared to adults, mixed with food or water. their bodies are not used to such radical support and it's definitely dangerous to inject so much of strong vancomycin. the experienced person should of done it, not Clementine.
And considering that Clementine used an syringe filled at the brim with Vancomycin, I'd be surprised if AJ doesn't end up suffering, or wors… moree dying, from the horrid side effects of having too much of the drug (or any drug for that matter) in his systems.
With the piece of paper Clem had I thought it was obvious that the vancomycin was a prescription given by the doctor, therefore it wasn't a … moreunknown medicine and she knew this was the one she needed to save AJ with. The only problem I had was with the dosage, but since the doctor didn't correct her (despite him being high he was clearly concerned about the amount of medicine left and I feel would have told her if she was using too much) I trusted the provided context of the game even if it might not fly in realistic terms.
The game did not present the choice as "inject aj and risk killing him with Clem's limited knowledge", it was presented as "this can potentially save aj's live if not used otherwise however you are denying this medicine for another". Logistics of the scene be damned, it's the moral decision of what the player is presented with that matters to the statistical result.
But we do know. And I believe that old players are still the majority in the whole fanbase. It could sorta be explained with Wellington endi… moreng, as it was shown that Clementine could write and read, but with the other endings it's just a huge plothole, unless NF somewhat happened to teach children basic stuff.
While Lee believed he was going to die when he got bit, there was still a chance he would survive if they had removed the origin point in time, obviously they didn't. If you choose to remove the arm, it is believed there is a chance he will survive and it certainly seems more likely since Lee is suffering less from the effects, just like with AJ and the medicine.
The objective of both was to survive and unfortunately both are predetermined regardless of what choice we make but still, the point was that it doesn't matter who they are or what say they had in the matter. Removing the arm and giving AJ medicine is simply for the hopes of both their survival, that's all i was getting at.
It's fine to get more sentimental for AJ given how young he is but I'd still make that same choice regardless of how young/old he was.
Lee knew very well he was going to die, he did want to live a little longer just to save Clem. They took off his arm too late, I believed th… moreey even said so. With AJ, he was just sick and if it that choice even matters (which I doubt), it should determine his status.
Comments
How would Clem know the proper dosage? I was scared of just over dosing him, and killing him outright.
assuming AJ was dying, if I knew injecting him would give him "a peaceful way out", I would definietly do it, but we don't really know from what he was sick. I wouldn't use it as a precaution, it did seem like a super strong medicine which would take down a horse and AJ is just a small baby boy. I don't even know are babies are supposed to take injections of this kind of medicine? And how did Clem know how to make a proper injection? i wouldn't.. Also that syringe looked gross as hell.
It seems like a matter of preference imo. If didn't know what it does and cared about aj you'd give it to him because you thought it would help despite what the doctor said. The doctor who was high. If you dislike david and don't care about aj you'd spit in david's face and wouldn't inject aj with the medicine. Like someone said they did in their post. If you were aware about what it does and it's effects and cared about aj you wouldn't give it to him. If you were aware of what it does and the side effects and didn't like aj you'd give it to him in hopes it would end him. Etc.
At the time when ANF was announced there were many sites that had released stills from the game when it became available to pre-order. The one with AJ and Clem in particular being one of my favourite pictures in all of The Walking Dead games, observing the episode 4 teaser picture as well as the other one, I noticed the little similarities in the settings of both pictures (The second is a screen-capture of the background of episode 4, and was the best I could find). In the episode 4 image (screen capture) it looks like there is a mass shoot-out going on in Richmond. Although many changes have been done to the final script, the area of Richmond has stayed the same. David's outburst ending in episode 3, makes sense for the start of the attack on Richmond - so to see the other picture of AJ and Clem gives me the impression that moment in time is during the mass shoot-out of Richmond at the end of episode 3, going into episode 4. I think this due to Clem saying she'd go and find AJ if he's in Richmond. If this is the case there's a high chance that AJ is still alive in episode 4.
--- Just from my observations ---
http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/99/walkingdead_1819913b.jpg?sid=7e9aadbfe30ef4a1ab46efb20076fa7c
http://i.imgur.com/eeOQIhG.jpg
Clem most likely came to camp with AJ so they could get separated for the sake of the plot.
Just because a 3 year old isn't a pillar of a community, doesn't mean he should die. Honestly, logistically thinking about it, toddlers and babies are the absolute most important things in a zombie apocalypse. There's so few of them, how on earth is there even going to be a next generation? If you have a hundred 30 year olds and one 3 year old, you better fucking save that 3 year old to take care of those 30 year olds when/if they ever get too old to take care of themselves.
You have to understand Clem didn't know what we know, she was 100% convinced that he was going to die, since everyone was telling her that. Injecting him as a last resort would be better than to just let him die.
Turns out as usual the choice matters for shit ss AJ seems to have recovered regardless if of course David isn't lying.
Btw does anyone know what was exactly wrong with AJ? How was he dying? Where did this all come about?
I injected the medicine because I thought Clem know about it based on her interaction with other medicine; she was not stupid and previous seasons implied so.
That's not exactly fair of you, it's a moral grey zone - do you give a toddler you care about medicine you steal from a group that a doctor states won't help or do you keep hold of it for the chance of coming across a situation where it will help, both sides are understandable to an extent. You might keep the medicine and it turns out if could've saved AJ, that is true but you might also decide to give it to AJ and it becomes the reason he dies, we can only wait and see.
I couldn't take the risk myself. I had no idea what the hell vaconymmemnfffghfd does and the doctor was, despite being high, seemed aware of the possible repercussions and it's possible Clem be wrong on this and be acting irrationally. We don't know where she got that information and what AJ is sick with. Telltale seems dead serious about their choice making, especially with this recent episode, so it's possible that one option may lead to AJ's recovery or death. (What you brought up about what the medicine does makes me more confident of my choice). I'm still unsure if I can David's word about AJ yet (whom I've been surprisingly siding with a lot with a few exceptions recently, I'm impressed with his character arc.).
(That doesn't mean I want the baby dead. With AJ now being with Lingard maybe he can look at him again and find a more appropriate treatment)
Good thing Aj is OP
Vancomycin is an antibiotic used for treating infections. AJ had some sort of sickness or infection, probably from being in the cold.
Vancomycin is an antibiotic, pretty standard stuff for treating infants and keeping them alive.
Even if he dies, doing something is better than doing nothing at all.
It's like a car accident. You have NO idea how first aid works. Do you just stand there and wait? No. You do everything you can, even with the possibility to break someone's ribs during CPR or something else.
Exactly.
Right but it's still the same concept.
Lose the arm and you might not go zombie, as proven in the comics a couple times.
Inject the kid and he might live.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the subject was of either, the main goal of both was survival.
Actually it's supposed to be used with extreme caution while treating children and should be given in very specific doses, every couple of hours.
im busted now thanks poogs
Lee knew very well he was going to die, he did want to live a little longer just to save Clem. They took off his arm too late, I believed they even said so. With AJ, he was just sick and if it that choice even matters (which I doubt), it should determine his status.
Wait what? So you would rush blindly to save someone when you know you have no medical knowledge and you'll most likely kill that person than help? It's like recklessly jumping to the water to help drowning person while having no idea how to swim. It's disservice. To stay alive, you think about consequences, about what can happen. If you're experienced survivor like Clem, you don't let panic to get you, she's been through so much and she had developed habits and thinking necessary to survive.
It's still an absolute miracle (or more likely bad writing) that she's managed to stay alive for 3 years with a newborn baby while having absolutely no idea how to handle babies' needs and still being a child herself.
A huge problem with this flashback is there wasn't enough information conveyed to the player about what was going on. It's not something that should be up for interpretation, the writers just falied to do their jobs properly. Hell you couldn't even figure out what part in the time line this flash back was till the end of it and it seems TT skipped A LOT, especially if you chose to refuse Ava in the previous flashback about joining the New Frontier. The setting was also weird. Why is everything out in the open like a camp, where are we and why are we here? The whole thing was just executed poorly like the other flashbacks so they could get to the feels moment, being torn away from AJ.
And considering that Clementine used an syringe filled at the brim with Vancomycin, I'd be surprised if AJ doesn't end up suffering, or worse dying, from the horrid side effects of having too much of the drug (or any drug for that matter) in his systems.
Enough with the flashbacks already, it's doing nothing for Javiers timeskip story and frankly I don't give a damn about mister goofball.
His avatar is the answer to whatever questions any of you reading this may ask.
[removed]
With the piece of paper Clem had I thought it was obvious that the vancomycin was a prescription given by the doctor, therefore it wasn't a unknown medicine and she knew this was the one she needed to save AJ with. The only problem I had was with the dosage, but since the doctor didn't correct her (despite him being high he was clearly concerned about the amount of medicine left and I feel would have told her if she was using too much) I trusted the provided context of the game even if it might not fly in realistic terms.
The game did not present the choice as "inject aj and risk killing him with Clem's limited knowledge", it was presented as "this can potentially save aj's live if not used otherwise however you are denying this medicine for another". Logistics of the scene be damned, it's the moral decision of what the player is presented with that matters to the statistical result.
How am I selfish, if by your logic you would kill someone rather than progressive help by thinking something through? What an argument to call other people names, we simply have different opinions, that's all. No need to be rude.
Another thing is, why NF even bothered to take AJ away from Clem if he was "dying" when they told her they wouldn't waste more resources to help him, meaning he would be dead very soon?
How is that making any sense, it seems to happen just for Clem and AJ to get separated and for AJ's status to remain unknown. Unless [inject] or [put back] choice has caused some major plot changes, actually killing or helping AJ, which would be an actual suprise and irrefutable argument for 'choices defining your story'.
Sometimes doing nothing is better than taking action, such as if the action is what causes or accelerates a loved ones death.
There's a difference with these two situations, on the one hand you have medicine that you have no idea how it will affect an infant with a doctor stating it won't aid him, on the other hand, you're in a car accident, you might not be able to do anything depending on the severity of a person's injuries, personally I would call an ambulance first and foremost so that they can offer the aid the crash victim needs and then I would apply the basic first aid that school had taught me and if there were other people around, there's a likely hood that they would aid as well, there are allot of factors to take in with every situation but deciding on whether to give unknown medicine to an infant and deciding what actions to take after witnessing a car accident are two very different things.
Clementine had it written down but does she know what effects the medicine would have upon consumption? For all we know whoever told her what AJ needed could've been lying or even just guessing. We won't really know until the next couple episodes but this decision probably won't have an effect on the game, apart from one line of dialogue.
It was clear that the doctor had been treating AJ and diagnosing him. Odds are that Clem got the name from him or took it from his journal.
We're just going to have to assume that the girl we raised isnt a complete dumbass.
Because the "newcomers" don't know that Lee found her at the age of 8.
Because stealing from Arvo or the stranger's vehicle choice mattered so much.
But we do know. And I believe that old players are still the majority in the whole fanbase. It could sorta be explained with Wellington ending, as it was shown that Clementine could write and read, but with the other endings it's just a huge plothole, unless NF somewhat happened to teach children basic stuff.
now that I'm thinking about it, AJ could have serious complications... thats why little children get smaller doses of medicine compared to adults, mixed with food or water. their bodies are not used to such radical support and it's definitely dangerous to inject so much of strong vancomycin. the experienced person should of done it, not Clementine.
that wasn't a prescription, the doctor was 100% against injecting AJ with vancomycin. Clem most likely stole it or found somewhere.
The choices from this season prove that.
While Lee believed he was going to die when he got bit, there was still a chance he would survive if they had removed the origin point in time, obviously they didn't. If you choose to remove the arm, it is believed there is a chance he will survive and it certainly seems more likely since Lee is suffering less from the effects, just like with AJ and the medicine.
The objective of both was to survive and unfortunately both are predetermined regardless of what choice we make but still, the point was that it doesn't matter who they are or what say they had in the matter. Removing the arm and giving AJ medicine is simply for the hopes of both their survival, that's all i was getting at.
It's fine to get more sentimental for AJ given how young he is but I'd still make that same choice regardless of how young/old he was.
Although she did filled the syringe up, but before she injected AJ she did squirts 2/3 of the meds out. Soooo yea...
