The main problem with the show is this.
The writers HAVE to make 16 episodes per season. Meaning when they get together they have to stretch out the content, and season 7 really shows the full effect of that.
The content of the story should NOT be determined by the size of the season.
The size of the season SHOULD be determined by the content of the story.
If they followed this format then we would get a much better story than we currently have.
I stopped watching the show during season 5. It had basically become a really lame soap opera that just happened to have zombies in it occasionally. Plus they butchered the few cool comic sequences they had to capitalize on, like "they're screwing with the wrong people" and the Negan kill being a cliffhanger. I pretty much only watch youtube clips of it now just to laugh at how bad it is.
And that bottom clip from s7? Wow, just wow. So much cringe. This show has tanked under Gimple.
I don't think it was the best, but I think it got unfairly maligned. All people cared about was the fact that they were still on the farm. Like they would just up and leave a safe place.
I actually felt Season 2 was the best. It was my favourite. The show doesn't need tons of action to be good. I liked the slow pace.
Episode… mores didn't feel like fillers like they do these days and we saw great character development with Shane and the other characters. I felt after Season 3 the series hasn't been as good but i'll always stay loyal
How can you say it tanked when you admit you stopped watching two seasons ago? YouTube clips are hardly going to give you a good indication of what's going on. Also, I've been hearing the whole "soap opera with zombies" thing since season two. Didn't George Romero coin that phrase? So they didn't get to use the f-bomb in that sequence. That's enough to make the whole scene butchered?
I stopped watching the show during season 5. It had basically become a really lame soap opera that just happened to have zombies in it occa… moresionally. Plus they butchered the few cool comic sequences they had to capitalize on, like "they're screwing with the wrong people" and the Negan kill being a cliffhanger. I pretty much only watch youtube clips of it now just to laugh at how bad it is.
And that bottom clip from s7? Wow, just wow. So much cringe. This show has tanked under Gimple.
The main problem with the show is this.
The writers HAVE to make 16 episodes per season. Meaning when they get together they have to stretc… moreh out the content, and season 7 really shows the full effect of that.
The content of the story should NOT be determined by the size of the season.
The size of the season SHOULD be determined by the content of the story.
If they followed this format then we would get a much better story than we currently have.
They lost over a million viewers between s5 and s6, and they lost 2 million viewers between s6 and s7. Downward trajectory in both ratings and quality, and I'm not the only one with this opinion. A lot of people have come to realize that the plot goes nowhere fast simply because they drag it out for 16 episodes a season. The dialogue and writing is pretty bad, I don't recall any show needing an after show to explain what just happened.
As for the f-bomb scene, yeah that's when you realize the restrictions that television and producers placed upon the show and that they didn't really care about doing the comic justice. They could've gotten away with the f-bomb too, just shows how they are playing it safe at this point.
How can you say it tanked when you admit you stopped watching two seasons ago? YouTube clips are hardly going to give you a good indication … moreof what's going on. Also, I've been hearing the whole "soap opera with zombies" thing since season two. Didn't George Romero coin that phrase? So they didn't get to use the f-bomb in that sequence. That's enough to make the whole scene butchered?
I tuned out midway through season 6 (after the escape from Alexandria or whatever it was called) growing somewhat bored of Rick and the group as a whole and them surviving everything. I remember tuning in out of boredom a few eps after, witnessing Maggie and Carol take down a base by themselves and then I didn't watch again until Negan bashed in some heads.
Started watching full time again midway through season 7. Now there is some guy with a tiger talking in a weird, nonsensical type of way, another group talking even worse than him, Negan as cartoonish as ever, Rick and his guys still surviving full on intense shootouts. It's insane but fun to laugh at and entertaining if you lower your expectations.
I stopped watching the show during season 5. It had basically become a really lame soap opera that just happened to have zombies in it occa… moresionally. Plus they butchered the few cool comic sequences they had to capitalize on, like "they're screwing with the wrong people" and the Negan kill being a cliffhanger. I pretty much only watch youtube clips of it now just to laugh at how bad it is.
And that bottom clip from s7? Wow, just wow. So much cringe. This show has tanked under Gimple.
Thats absolutely fine and you are entitled to your opinion and yeah most people didn't like it as it was soley based on the farm when realistically in a group you would want to stay there if its safe. I feel it was definitely unfairly treated
I don't think it was the best, but I think it got unfairly maligned. All people cared about was the fact that they were still on the farm. Like they would just up and leave a safe place.
It's insane but fun to laugh at and entertaining if you lower your expectations.
This basically sums up the show at this point lol. The fully automatic firefights and the fact that JDM doesn't seem to truly grasp Negan's character means I just can't take it seriously. Still good for some cringes and laughs.
I tuned out midway through season 6 (after the escape from Alexandria or whatever it was called) growing somewhat bored of Rick and the grou… morep as a whole and them surviving everything. I remember tuning in out of boredom a few eps after, witnessing Maggie and Carol take down a base by themselves and then I didn't watch again until Negan bashed in some heads.
Started watching full time again midway through season 7. Now there is some guy with a tiger talking in a weird, nonsensical type of way, another group talking even worse than him, Negan as cartoonish as ever, Rick and his guys still surviving full on intense shootouts. It's insane but fun to laugh at and entertaining if you lower your expectations.
In my opinion...ever since they entered Alexandria the series experienced downfall. It just doesnt have the original vibe anymore.
What keeps me interested in the WD TV series is fact that I have been watching it for 7 years and dont want to give up on it now and the second reason is Negan who is one of the best villains of all the time ....and also Jesus is badass
A lot of shows are doing aftershows these days. Its just another way to interact with fans and get and give immediate feedback. Your reasoning there is a bit strange.
As for the ratings, the show is almost eight years old. Its naturally going to taper off as it goes along. I cant think of any shows that don't do that. Its definitely an opinion that it's declined in quality. I don't share that opinion, and from the comments I read, with people complaining about every aspect of the show for the past seven seasons, its really hard to understand what people are judging their opinions on. Is the show too violent not violent enough? Does the show spend too much time on character building or are the characters not being built up enough? Everything from the music choices to the cgi, to how tall the grass on the lawn is. There's so much arm chair screenwriting but who could do better?
For instance, youre saying the plot is going nowhere. Do you really believe that? Are we not building up to a war? The show has been trying very hard to adhere more closely to the comics, and I think a lot of people who don't read the comics have a problem with that because they want to see the show doing a lot of out there things that aren't going to happen, like searching for a cure, or creating super zombies, or whatever, but I don't think a lot of people really appreciate the show for what it is.
They lost over a million viewers between s5 and s6, and they lost 2 million viewers between s6 and s7. Downward trajectory in both ratings … moreand quality, and I'm not the only one with this opinion. A lot of people have come to realize that the plot goes nowhere fast simply because they drag it out for 16 episodes a season. The dialogue and writing is pretty bad, I don't recall any show needing an after show to explain what just happened.
As for the f-bomb scene, yeah that's when you realize the restrictions that television and producers placed upon the show and that they didn't really care about doing the comic justice. They could've gotten away with the f-bomb too, just shows how they are playing it safe at this point.
Okay yes the plot is going somewhere, but my point is that it gets there incredibly slowly and with little payoff. The show just starts feeling like a waiting game with constant cliffhangers for the next week. The comics don't go along this slowly and I truly believe if they shortened the number of episodes per season to 8, then it would feel much better paced and it wouldn't seem so drawn out.
I have no idea what you mean about people wanting a cure or super zombies. I haven't seen anyone wanting that. I have, however, seen people yearning for a higher quality of writing and some atmosphere and development as opposed to fully automatic machine gun battles.
Gimple said he wants the show to last another 20 years. The guy just has the strangest goals and has been pretty condescending towards fans on a few occasions. I just don't think his vision and influence has been good to the show for a while now.
A lot of shows are doing aftershows these days. Its just another way to interact with fans and get and give immediate feedback. Your reasoni… moreng there is a bit strange.
As for the ratings, the show is almost eight years old. Its naturally going to taper off as it goes along. I cant think of any shows that don't do that. Its definitely an opinion that it's declined in quality. I don't share that opinion, and from the comments I read, with people complaining about every aspect of the show for the past seven seasons, its really hard to understand what people are judging their opinions on. Is the show too violent not violent enough? Does the show spend too much time on character building or are the characters not being built up enough? Everything from the music choices to the cgi, to how tall the grass on the lawn is. There's so much arm chair screenwriting but who could do better?
For instance, youre saying the plot is going nowhere. Do you … [view original content]
I have seen people saying exactly those things. I'm surprised you haven't seen people say anything about a cure. That's been going on since season one.
I thought the comic was repetitive and slow myself, and that's why I stopped reading it but ymmv.
I think we all know the show is not going to last another 20 years. Only soap operas and police procedurals seem to do that. And possibly The Simpsons. I don't know about him being condescending but I cant say that I wouldn't get a bit of an attitude if I was working so hard on something and was just getting blasted constantly for it. I'm serious when I say fans don't ever seem to be satisfied no matter what the show tries to do. Would eight episodes work better? I doubt it. I feel like there would be too much of "Well, how did they get there so fast? Why are they doing this?" If they were going to go smaller, I would go with the standard 10 to 13 that most cable series are doing now. I mean, they do need time to develop a lot of characters and story and I just don't know how that gets done in only eight episodes. But I'm not a tv writer, that's why I try to trust that they know what they are doing.
So let me ask you, if you think his vision for the show is wrong, what do you think should be happening?
Okay yes the plot is going somewhere, but my point is that it gets there incredibly slowly and with little payoff. The show just starts fee… moreling like a waiting game with constant cliffhangers for the next week. The comics don't go along this slowly and I truly believe if they shortened the number of episodes per season to 8, then it would feel much better paced and it wouldn't seem so drawn out.
I have no idea what you mean about people wanting a cure or super zombies. I haven't seen anyone wanting that. I have, however, seen people yearning for a higher quality of writing and some atmosphere and development as opposed to fully automatic machine gun battles.
Gimple said he wants the show to last another 20 years. The guy just has the strangest goals and has been pretty condescending towards fans on a few occasions. I just don't think his vision and influence has been good to the show for a while now.
To answer your question, I personally enjoyed the atmosphere and intrigue of s1 and to a lesser degree s2. Like, finding a pistol or two was a big deal. Now we are having full blown machine gun battles without any main character casualties. Darabount did some questionable stuff, like the semi conscious walkers and the CDC, but ultimately it actually felt like a vast and dangerous world. Now we're moved from plot point to plot point with the same crazy action scenes and melodrama, but ultimately it just doesn't feel like it pays off the same way as it used to.
S1 and s2 used to feel like watching real people react to the zombie apocalypse. Now it is just Rick and his immortal band of loyal survivors and it gets incredibly tiresome.
I have seen people saying exactly those things. I'm surprised you haven't seen people say anything about a cure. That's been going on since … moreseason one.
I thought the comic was repetitive and slow myself, and that's why I stopped reading it but ymmv.
I think we all know the show is not going to last another 20 years. Only soap operas and police procedurals seem to do that. And possibly The Simpsons. I don't know about him being condescending but I cant say that I wouldn't get a bit of an attitude if I was working so hard on something and was just getting blasted constantly for it. I'm serious when I say fans don't ever seem to be satisfied no matter what the show tries to do. Would eight episodes work better? I doubt it. I feel like there would be too much of "Well, how did they get there so fast? Why are they doing this?" If they were going to go smaller, I would go with the standard 10 to 13 that most cable series are doing now. I mean… [view original content]
I actually liked season two quite a lot. It wasn't my favorite but I definitely understood what they were doing and I didn't think that it consisted of just them being on the farm and looking for Sophia. A lot happened that people seemed to dismiss, like the whole Randall debacle, and Shane showing what a psycho he is. Was.
Thats absolutely fine and you are entitled to your opinion and yeah most people didn't like it as it was soley based on the farm when realistically in a group you would want to stay there if its safe. I feel it was definitely unfairly treated
No, I get it. I hear that a lot. The only thing I can say to that is that its just not going to be the same level of fear and struggle that they had when the ZA just started. I mean, they said starting season three that they were going to focus on the bigger threat of the actual survivors and that's what we've been seeing. Eventually, you understand how to deal with the walkers and can easily avoid them, and it becomes more about trying to keep other groups from taking what you have, or treating to eat you. It is more of an action drama than pure straight horror these days, but years in, I'm not sure how it could be different. Every zombie movie Ive ever seen has the survivors falling pretty fast, especially when they have fast, running zombies, so we don't really get this scenario where people are trying to actually live with the zombies. I haven't watched Z-Nation or a show like that so maybe that show has more of the immediate threat you mean? I don't know.
As for them being "immortal", come on, lol. Theyre just not going to randomly kill off their stars en masse. The deaths, when they come, have to actually have some impact. Otherwise, it would be a Lost-type scenario where they were just mowing down redshirts left and right.
Anyway, I appreciate the input. It led to a very civil discussion, which I like.
To answer your question, I personally enjoyed the atmosphere and intrigue of s1 and to a lesser degree s2. Like, finding a pistol or two wa… mores a big deal. Now we are having full blown machine gun battles without any main character casualties. Darabount did some questionable stuff, like the semi conscious walkers and the CDC, but ultimately it actually felt like a vast and dangerous world. Now we're moved from plot point to plot point with the same crazy action scenes and melodrama, but ultimately it just doesn't feel like it pays off the same way as it used to.
S1 and s2 used to feel like watching real people react to the zombie apocalypse. Now it is just Rick and his immortal band of loyal survivors and it gets incredibly tiresome.
Not sure if I explained this well
I actually liked season two quite a lot. It wasn't my favorite but I definitely understood what they were doing and I didn't think that it c… moreonsisted of just them being on the farm and looking for Sophia. A lot happened that people seemed to dismiss, like the whole Randall debacle, and Shane showing what a psycho he is. Was.
As for them being "immortal", come on, lol. Theyre just not going to randomly kill off their stars en masse. The deaths, when they come, have to actually have some impact. Otherwise, it would be a Lost-type scenario where they were just mowing down redshirts left and right.
Then don't have Rick's team in constant shootouts with them surviving and the other team dying. Either kill them off or find other ways to create drama or it starts getting predictable and boring. Might wanna stop with all the fakeouts as well (Judith, Glenn dumpster, Rick and motherfucking deer, Michonne in the shootout last episode). I don't accept the argument that they have all got better at surviving either. Guys like Merle, Shane, The Governor were all much tougher than Carl and Gabriel and indeed most of Rick's crew yet they all died. Andrea was developing into a pretty tough survivor yet she died. The show used to kill off a lot of people in the early days.
No, I get it. I hear that a lot. The only thing I can say to that is that its just not going to be the same level of fear and struggle that … morethey had when the ZA just started. I mean, they said starting season three that they were going to focus on the bigger threat of the actual survivors and that's what we've been seeing. Eventually, you understand how to deal with the walkers and can easily avoid them, and it becomes more about trying to keep other groups from taking what you have, or treating to eat you. It is more of an action drama than pure straight horror these days, but years in, I'm not sure how it could be different. Every zombie movie Ive ever seen has the survivors falling pretty fast, especially when they have fast, running zombies, so we don't really get this scenario where people are trying to actually live with the zombies. I haven't watched Z-Nation or a show like that so maybe that show has more of the immediate threat you m… [view original content]
I understand that walkers aren't the main threat after several years of survival. Walkers are predictable, humans are not. Still though, I wish we could see a conflict with a human threat where the good guys aren't just straight up slaughtering redshirts. The gunplay is really cheesy and even the comic shies away from too much of it. I just want to see conflicts of a higher level of maturity and realism.
They don't have to kill off their stars en masse, but they definitely need to stop being so predictable. This shows fans always act like it is one of those shows where anybody can die at any time, but it simply isn't true anymore like it is for shows like Game of Thrones. Anyone can die at any time... except for Rick, Carl, Michonne, Carol, Daryl, etc.... Just switch it up a bit, keep us guessing. And whether they acknowledge it or not, the show has a canon storyline from the comic books. The producers can't keep teasing Rick's death when we know he will be around for quite a while. It is very predictable writing that acts like it is better than it is.
But yeah, appreciate the discussion. It is nice to be able to discuss and share differing opinions without bloodshed. As my last point I also want to say that Jeffrey Dean Morgan is doing a disservice to Negan's character and should have been casted as someone else.
No, I get it. I hear that a lot. The only thing I can say to that is that its just not going to be the same level of fear and struggle that … morethey had when the ZA just started. I mean, they said starting season three that they were going to focus on the bigger threat of the actual survivors and that's what we've been seeing. Eventually, you understand how to deal with the walkers and can easily avoid them, and it becomes more about trying to keep other groups from taking what you have, or treating to eat you. It is more of an action drama than pure straight horror these days, but years in, I'm not sure how it could be different. Every zombie movie Ive ever seen has the survivors falling pretty fast, especially when they have fast, running zombies, so we don't really get this scenario where people are trying to actually live with the zombies. I haven't watched Z-Nation or a show like that so maybe that show has more of the immediate threat you m… [view original content]
see a conflict with a human threat where the good guys aren't just straight up slaughtering redshirts
Yes this is something else I forgot to add. Rick's team are not only amazing at surviving but they are also overpowered when it comes to killing. The episode where Maggie and Carol took out a base by themselves despite being kidnapped is a good example of this.
I understand that walkers aren't the main threat after several years of survival. Walkers are predictable, humans are not. Still though, I… more wish we could see a conflict with a human threat where the good guys aren't just straight up slaughtering redshirts. The gunplay is really cheesy and even the comic shies away from too much of it. I just want to see conflicts of a higher level of maturity and realism.
They don't have to kill off their stars en masse, but they definitely need to stop being so predictable. This shows fans always act like it is one of those shows where anybody can die at any time, but it simply isn't true anymore like it is for shows like Game of Thrones. Anyone can die at any time... except for Rick, Carl, Michonne, Carol, Daryl, etc.... Just switch it up a bit, keep us guessing. And whether they acknowledge it or not, the show has a canon storyline from the comic books. The producers can't keep teasing Rick's dea… [view original content]
If I recall correctly, Dale only died because of behind the scenes drama with the actor. He was supposed to die much later. Kinda ruins the moment for me. And actually it was pretty silly, if I recall how the zombie killed him. Snuck up in an open empty field and then used it's super zombie strength on him.
Listen dude or madam you can disagree that's fine but there really is no need for sarcasm because you didn't like what I said. Show me at le… moreast some respect for my opinion please!
The "generic background character's" as you put them, Jimmy and Patricia yes granted they did only exist to die in the finale but when has there ever not been a set of characters that have existed just to die immediately or for dramatic/plot reasons? Btw Lori didn't tell Rick to kill him, she told him what Shane had done to Otis and that he was dangerous. Nothing more so naturally she was surprised when he did.
Beth was a background character that season and look how she she eventually grew as a character. We got to see a sensitive storyline where she wanted to commit suicide which i felt was an important thing to show on screen. Otis died so we could see the beginning of change in Shane which led him to be the main antagonist of Season 2. I liked the storylin… [view original content]
If I recall correctly, Dale only died because of behind the scenes drama with the actor. He was supposed to die much later. Kinda ruins the moment for me. And actually it was pretty silly, if I recall how the zombie killed him. Snuck up in an open empty field and then used it's super zombie strength on him.
And? Just because the actor decided to leave didn't mean the character's death was silly. I don't think it was silly at all. That of course is your opinion.
For me it was well executed given the fact that the reason he died was thanks to Carl's stupidity, something that weighs on him heavily going into Season 3 (he mentions his regret in that season). The zombie had wandered onto the farm, found and killed a cow and Dale turned up not long after it had happened. Dale is an old man so is it that surprising that he was overpowered?
Also as i explained, the scene was very sad and surprising at the time and compared to some other character deaths, i found this to be one of the saddest "in my opinion".
Point is you have your views and i have mine. We should leave it there because neither will think otherwise
If I recall correctly, Dale only died because of behind the scenes drama with the actor. He was supposed to die much later. Kinda ruins the … moremoment for me. And actually it was pretty silly, if I recall how the zombie killed him. Snuck up in an open empty field and then used it's super zombie strength on him.
Shane Walsh is, in my opinion, one of the most complex and developed character the tv show have had to this day. He had such presence ( and I am not talking about the fact he obviously had quite a good amount of screentime ) even now people are interested in the ''what if he was still alive'' '' how would he have delt with X ''... The fact not everyone likes and/or understands him brings debates which is usually very telling if we are trying to find an actual well written, realistic and morally grey character.
Shane Walsh is, in my opinion, one of the most complex and developed character the tv show have had to this day. He had such presence ( and … moreI am not talking about the fact he obviously had quite a good amount of screentime ) even now people are interested in the ''what if he was still alive'' '' how would he have delt with X ''... The fact not everyone likes and/or understands him brings debates which is usually very telling if we are trying to find an actual well written, realistic and morally grey character.
The show used to kill off a lot of people in the early days.
Season 7 killed more major characters than the first two seasons and the same amount as Season 3, except that Season 7's deaths actually contributed to the story and were well handled, and Season 3's deaths sacrificed potential storytelling for shock value and sucked shit. The only good, fitting death that didn't screw up potential storytelling in Season 3 was Lori's. As for Season 2, Dale only died because the actor wanted out, which is why his death scene was stupid and contrived as hell. Shane was expected to die, and nobody cared about Sophia. Not exactly a cutthroat season as far as character deaths go; most of the main group was perfectly safe in Season 2. And nobody major died in Season 1 at all.
And while the miraculous shootouts are indeed silly, let's not pretend the early seasons were any less ridiculous with plot armor. In fact, Season 3 had some of the worst examples.
Guys like Merle, Shane, The Governor were all much tougher than Carl and Gabriel and indeed most of Rick's crew yet they all died.
Shane wasn't tough at all, first of all. Physically imposing, sure, but he was a mental wreck who started losing it pretty damn quick, already aiming a gun at his supposed best friend within a day or two of his return. Shane was never going to survive, being the weak willed shit that he was who couldn't handle losing the woman he was pining after.
As for the Governor and Merle, most of Rick's group has survived thus far because they're not borderline suicidal, self-destructive, and idiotic in making villainous plans (Governor) or erratic as hell to the point of actively seeking trouble and eventually going on a suicide mission because they've alienated everyone around them (Merle). They respond to threats that crop up rather than go looking for them like both of these characters. This is why bad guys in this world die despite it being a survival of the fittest world. Because when you go looking for trouble like all the bad guys in this series do, you make enemies and you make situations worse for yourself until it eventually catches up with you.
As for them being "immortal", come on, lol. Theyre just not going to randomly kill off their stars en masse. The deaths, when they come, hav… moree to actually have some impact. Otherwise, it would be a Lost-type scenario where they were just mowing down redshirts left and right.
Then don't have Rick's team in constant shootouts with them surviving and the other team dying. Either kill them off or find other ways to create drama or it starts getting predictable and boring. Might wanna stop with all the fakeouts as well (Judith, Glenn dumpster, Rick and motherfucking deer, Michonne in the shootout last episode). I don't accept the argument that they have all got better at surviving either. Guys like Merle, Shane, The Governor were all much tougher than Carl and Gabriel and indeed most of Rick's crew yet they all died. Andrea was developing into a pretty tough survivor yet she died. The show used to kill off a lot of people in the early days.
You act like the base had a big group in it when there was only three women they needed to worry about by the time they started fighting back. And they didn't even fight the reinforcements that showed up after the fact, they just tricked them. They survived through trickery and surprise, not going head to head with an army regiment.
And let's not forget that Carol was beaten and being tortured by the end of Season 6 by a single dude. The characters are always either triumphant or totally screwed depending on the circumstances. They don't breeze past challenges. Hell, that base attack you mentioned functioned as a big drama magnet for Carol and to a lesser extent Maggie, so it's not like they got out unscathed. Like you said, they should either kill characters or do something else to build drama, right? Well, that's exactly what they do, all the damn time. The present threat of death is just a part of the world. The characters' storylines are always about more than avoiding death.
see a conflict with a human threat where the good guys aren't just straight up slaughtering redshirts
Yes this is something else I f… moreorgot to add. Rick's team are not only amazing at surviving but they are also overpowered when it comes to killing. The episode where Maggie and Carol took out a base by themselves despite being kidnapped is a good example of this.
Bottom line is that they were kidnapped and tied up I think and still managed to escape and kill their kidnappers and kill everyone else in the base who somehow didn't notice/hear what was going on. They also escaped without so much as a scratch. That's ridiculous. I know a lot of people like Carol and Maggie but there is just no getting out of it that that is ridiculous. I don't accept that.
The show killed Shane, Merle, The Governor etc because it wanted them out of the show rather than them being more incompetent than Rick's guys in my opinion. I also felt that The Governor was conviniently dumbed down towards the end of his reign (killing Hershel instead of the bigger threat Michonne and then him and all his men convieniently forgetting Michonne was there so she could kill him). Didn't he also have a tank in one of the battles yet somehow didn't do much damage with it? Lmao.
Just like Negan and his guys were dumbed down/weakened in the last episode. A walker managed to distract every single one of his guys and they were unable to kill none of Rick's guys? Yeah right...
You act like the base had a big group in it when there was only three women they needed to worry about by the time they started fighting bac… morek. And they didn't even fight the reinforcements that showed up after the fact, they just tricked them. They survived through trickery and surprise, not going head to head with an army regiment.
And let's not forget that Carol was beaten and being tortured by the end of Season 6 by a single dude. The characters are always either triumphant or totally screwed depending on the circumstances. They don't breeze past challenges. Hell, that base attack you mentioned functioned as a big drama magnet for Carol and to a lesser extent Maggie, so it's not like they got out unscathed. Like you said, they should either kill characters or do something else to build drama, right? Well, that's exactly what they do, all the damn time. The present threat of death is just a part of the world. The characters' storylines are always about more than avoiding death.
Your comparison makes about as much sense as me showing clips from Season 7 of Ezekiel having a heart to heart with Carol as his true self, talking about why and when he started putting on his king persona, or Morgan's mental breakdown, or Richard's emotional recollection of his daughter's death, or Tara talking to Judith to let out her growing feelings of deceiving the group to someone, or Rick talking to Michonne about acceptance and how he had to accept Judith isn't his child... and comparing them to Hershel's unlimited shotgun sequence, or Carl's endless trips out of the house with absolutely no one noticing, or Lori whispering in Rick's ear like a cliche villainess while the camera closes in on Rick's face with ridiculously cheesy music, or Lori flipping the car like an idiot, or Dale's painfully stupid death scene, or the group spending ten moronic minutes trying to get the stupid well-walker out of the well.
And there's plenty of other stupid moments from Season 2 to choose from too, same with Season 7. And there were also plenty of great, emotional character moments to choose from in Season 7 as well. I won't deny Season 7 is more spectacle than any other season, but fuck it, I'll take spectacle over endless monotony like Season 2. And I'm not opposed to long stretches of character development, either. After all, Season 4 is my favorite season, and people often complain about how slow it moved when it spent all that time developing its characters and telling their stories. It's just that Season 4's stories were interesting, and Season 2's stories were painfully boring with half-assed character development for everyone except Rick, Hershel, Shane, and Daryl.
Bottom line is that they were kidnapped and tied up I think and still managed to escape and kill their kidnappers and kill everyone else in the base who somehow didn't notice/hear what was going on.
Yeah, I don't think you remember that sequence. They jumped Molly after getting free of their binds and Paula showed up literally right after and saw what they did, and went searching for them. Then 'Chelle surprise attacked them a little later because she was already alerted by all the noise, and died because it was two against one. Then Paula confronted them and died. And that was it, other than the dudes they hid from afterwards and burned alive because they walked into a trap.
If they had kidnapped the two of them for the purposes of killing them, I'd agree. But they didn't. They wanted their friend back, so they didn't kill them on the spot and were instead waiting for more backup. This gave Carol time to cut herself free with her little crucifix, and get Maggie free so they could plan a surprise attack.
They also escaped without so much as a scratch
Not true. Glenn is later shown examining several bruises on Maggie's back, which are then explained to have been the impetus for her pregnancy complications. Carol also got kicked around a bit by the one dude who went nuts.
The show killed Shane, Merle, The Governor etc because it wanted them out of the show rather than them being more incompetent than Rick's guys in my opinion
Well, yeah... obviously people die when the writers decide it's time, but they were nevertheless incompetent in their own rights for all the reasons I stated.
I also felt that The Governor was conviniently dumbed down towards the end of his reign (killing Hershel instead of the bigger threat Michonne and then him and all his men convieniently forgetting Michonne was there so she could kill him)
No, he was always stupid. Every decision he ever made in Season 3 was stupid. He had a great setup and ruined it all over a pointless war that was also his own fault. He was also open to being killed countless times and only didn't due to plot armor. He was almost as bad as Negan in that regard. Almost.
As for not killing Michonne., she was not a perceived threat to any of his men. They were more focused on the bullets flying their way. They knew nothing about her or how dangerous she was, especially since she was tied up. And the Governor had just gotten shot and was retreating while she rolled off in the opposite direction, got loose and retreated somewhere. You can argue plot armor for him not choosing Michonne, and I certainly wouldn't disagree, but he threatened Hershel for the specific purpose of going after the more defenseless target to scare Rick into giving in (and has long since put aside his grievances with Michonne after coming to terms with the fact that he was delusional about Penny), and then killed him because he lost it when his plan failed.
Didn't he also have a tank in one of the battles yet somehow didn't do much damage with it? Lmao.
Not to the characters, no, but the tank was the singular reason the prison fell at all. That also wasn't the Governor's stupidity, surprisingly, but the ineptness of the people commanding it.
Just like Negan and his guys were dumbed down/weakened in the last episode. A walker managed to distract every single one of his guys and they were unable to kill none of Rick's guys? Yeah right...
A walker seemingly just appearing and piling on top of their leader and possibly killing him? Why wouldn't that distract them all? That made perfect sense, since the group used that literal first second of distraction to fight back. Not being able to kill any of the group, though? Yeah, that's plot armor for you, although there were casualties on Rick's side, just not main characters. Rosita was also shot and put out of commission early on.
They also weren't really weakened at all, as it was pretty clear Alexandria was losing that whole skirmish. It was only when the Kingdom and Hilltop intervened that the Saviors got their asses kicked.
Bottom line is that they were kidnapped and tied up I think and still managed to escape and kill their kidnappers and kill everyone else in … morethe base who somehow didn't notice/hear what was going on. They also escaped without so much as a scratch. That's ridiculous. I know a lot of people like Carol and Maggie but there is just no getting out of it that that is ridiculous. I don't accept that.
The show killed Shane, Merle, The Governor etc because it wanted them out of the show rather than them being more incompetent than Rick's guys in my opinion. I also felt that The Governor was conviniently dumbed down towards the end of his reign (killing Hershel instead of the bigger threat Michonne and then him and all his men convieniently forgetting Michonne was there so she could kill him). Didn't he also have a tank in one of the battles yet somehow didn't do much damage with it? Lmao.
Just like Negan and his guys were dumbed down/weakened in … [view original content]
If I recall correctly, Dale only died because of behind the scenes drama with the actor. He was supposed to die much later. Kinda ruins the … moremoment for me. And actually it was pretty silly, if I recall how the zombie killed him. Snuck up in an open empty field and then used it's super zombie strength on him.
And? Just because the actor decided to leave didn't mean the character's death was silly. I don't think it was silly at all. That of course is your opinion.
For me it was well executed given the fact that the reason he died was thanks to Carl's stupidity, something that weighs on him heavily going into Season 3 (he mentions his regret in that season). The zombie had wandered onto the farm, found and killed a cow and Dale turned up not long after it had happened. Dale is an old man so is it that surprising that he was overpowered?
Also as i explained, the scene was very sad and surprising at the time and compared to some other… [view original content]
I disagree on both of the things you said. For a lot of us it does not suck and we don't need to "wake up". If you don't like it that's fine just don't say things like that which will cause arguments no doubt
I agree with you. For me ever since they left the prison mid season 4 it's slowly gone down hill in my opinion. Season 5 was ok but i definitely agree with you that the original vibe is not there anymore. I always loved the group struggling to survive where as now they don't struggle the same. Yes they have Negan to deal with but thanks to having communities they work together. I also preferred past seasons because we only had a handful of character's to focus on. Nowadays there are just far too many. Half of them don't get the screentime necessary for me to get attached to them like i did for those in past seasons. I care more about T Dog than pretty much every newish character on the show these days lol (i did like T Dog by the way, i felt he didn't get enough credit).
Even some of the main characters don't even get the same amount of focus due to having to switch between everyone.
But yeah that's the main reason I don't enjoy the show as much as i used to, however, i'll stay loyal and continue to watch as long as my fav characters are still around
In my opinion...ever since they entered Alexandria the series experienced downfall. It just doesnt have the original vibe anymore.
What kee… moreps me interested in the WD TV series is fact that I have been watching it for 7 years and dont want to give up on it now and the second reason is Negan who is one of the best villains of all the time ....and also Jesus is badass
I found Negan acting super good, but this Season did went downhill to me compared to the other ones, specially after the shit cliffhanger at the end of Season 6 which lead me to not even care about two character I liked a lot dying on the beginning of Season 7 to Negan.
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The main problem with the show is this.
The writers HAVE to make 16 episodes per season. Meaning when they get together they have to stretch out the content, and season 7 really shows the full effect of that.
The content of the story should NOT be determined by the size of the season.
The size of the season SHOULD be determined by the content of the story.
If they followed this format then we would get a much better story than we currently have.
I stopped watching the show during season 5. It had basically become a really lame soap opera that just happened to have zombies in it occasionally. Plus they butchered the few cool comic sequences they had to capitalize on, like "they're screwing with the wrong people" and the Negan kill being a cliffhanger. I pretty much only watch youtube clips of it now just to laugh at how bad it is.
And that bottom clip from s7? Wow, just wow. So much cringe. This show has tanked under Gimple.
I don't think it was the best, but I think it got unfairly maligned. All people cared about was the fact that they were still on the farm. Like they would just up and leave a safe place.
How can you say it tanked when you admit you stopped watching two seasons ago? YouTube clips are hardly going to give you a good indication of what's going on. Also, I've been hearing the whole "soap opera with zombies" thing since season two. Didn't George Romero coin that phrase? So they didn't get to use the f-bomb in that sequence. That's enough to make the whole scene butchered?
So, how would you have introduced all those new communities if we got less episodes?
They lost over a million viewers between s5 and s6, and they lost 2 million viewers between s6 and s7. Downward trajectory in both ratings and quality, and I'm not the only one with this opinion. A lot of people have come to realize that the plot goes nowhere fast simply because they drag it out for 16 episodes a season. The dialogue and writing is pretty bad, I don't recall any show needing an after show to explain what just happened.
As for the f-bomb scene, yeah that's when you realize the restrictions that television and producers placed upon the show and that they didn't really care about doing the comic justice. They could've gotten away with the f-bomb too, just shows how they are playing it safe at this point.
I tuned out midway through season 6 (after the escape from Alexandria or whatever it was called) growing somewhat bored of Rick and the group as a whole and them surviving everything. I remember tuning in out of boredom a few eps after, witnessing Maggie and Carol take down a base by themselves and then I didn't watch again until Negan bashed in some heads.
Started watching full time again midway through season 7. Now there is some guy with a tiger talking in a weird, nonsensical type of way, another group talking even worse than him, Negan as cartoonish as ever, Rick and his guys still surviving full on intense shootouts. It's insane but fun to laugh at and entertaining if you lower your expectations.
Thats absolutely fine and you are entitled to your opinion and yeah most people didn't like it as it was soley based on the farm when realistically in a group you would want to stay there if its safe. I feel it was definitely unfairly treated
This basically sums up the show at this point lol. The fully automatic firefights and the fact that JDM doesn't seem to truly grasp Negan's character means I just can't take it seriously. Still good for some cringes and laughs.
In my opinion...ever since they entered Alexandria the series experienced downfall. It just doesnt have the original vibe anymore.
What keeps me interested in the WD TV series is fact that I have been watching it for 7 years and dont want to give up on it now and the second reason is Negan who is one of the best villains of all the time ....and also Jesus is badass
A lot of shows are doing aftershows these days. Its just another way to interact with fans and get and give immediate feedback. Your reasoning there is a bit strange.
As for the ratings, the show is almost eight years old. Its naturally going to taper off as it goes along. I cant think of any shows that don't do that. Its definitely an opinion that it's declined in quality. I don't share that opinion, and from the comments I read, with people complaining about every aspect of the show for the past seven seasons, its really hard to understand what people are judging their opinions on. Is the show too violent not violent enough? Does the show spend too much time on character building or are the characters not being built up enough? Everything from the music choices to the cgi, to how tall the grass on the lawn is. There's so much arm chair screenwriting but who could do better?
For instance, youre saying the plot is going nowhere. Do you really believe that? Are we not building up to a war? The show has been trying very hard to adhere more closely to the comics, and I think a lot of people who don't read the comics have a problem with that because they want to see the show doing a lot of out there things that aren't going to happen, like searching for a cure, or creating super zombies, or whatever, but I don't think a lot of people really appreciate the show for what it is.
Okay yes the plot is going somewhere, but my point is that it gets there incredibly slowly and with little payoff. The show just starts feeling like a waiting game with constant cliffhangers for the next week. The comics don't go along this slowly and I truly believe if they shortened the number of episodes per season to 8, then it would feel much better paced and it wouldn't seem so drawn out.
I have no idea what you mean about people wanting a cure or super zombies. I haven't seen anyone wanting that. I have, however, seen people yearning for a higher quality of writing and some atmosphere and development as opposed to fully automatic machine gun battles.
Gimple said he wants the show to last another 20 years. The guy just has the strangest goals and has been pretty condescending towards fans on a few occasions. I just don't think his vision and influence has been good to the show for a while now.
I have seen people saying exactly those things. I'm surprised you haven't seen people say anything about a cure. That's been going on since season one.
I thought the comic was repetitive and slow myself, and that's why I stopped reading it but ymmv.
I think we all know the show is not going to last another 20 years. Only soap operas and police procedurals seem to do that. And possibly The Simpsons. I don't know about him being condescending but I cant say that I wouldn't get a bit of an attitude if I was working so hard on something and was just getting blasted constantly for it. I'm serious when I say fans don't ever seem to be satisfied no matter what the show tries to do. Would eight episodes work better? I doubt it. I feel like there would be too much of "Well, how did they get there so fast? Why are they doing this?" If they were going to go smaller, I would go with the standard 10 to 13 that most cable series are doing now. I mean, they do need time to develop a lot of characters and story and I just don't know how that gets done in only eight episodes. But I'm not a tv writer, that's why I try to trust that they know what they are doing.
So let me ask you, if you think his vision for the show is wrong, what do you think should be happening?
I guess people need to wake up to realize that the tv show had always sucked.
To answer your question, I personally enjoyed the atmosphere and intrigue of s1 and to a lesser degree s2. Like, finding a pistol or two was a big deal. Now we are having full blown machine gun battles without any main character casualties. Darabount did some questionable stuff, like the semi conscious walkers and the CDC, but ultimately it actually felt like a vast and dangerous world. Now we're moved from plot point to plot point with the same crazy action scenes and melodrama, but ultimately it just doesn't feel like it pays off the same way as it used to.
S1 and s2 used to feel like watching real people react to the zombie apocalypse. Now it is just Rick and his immortal band of loyal survivors and it gets incredibly tiresome.
Not sure if I explained this well
I actually liked season two quite a lot. It wasn't my favorite but I definitely understood what they were doing and I didn't think that it consisted of just them being on the farm and looking for Sophia. A lot happened that people seemed to dismiss, like the whole Randall debacle, and Shane showing what a psycho he is. Was.
No, I get it. I hear that a lot. The only thing I can say to that is that its just not going to be the same level of fear and struggle that they had when the ZA just started. I mean, they said starting season three that they were going to focus on the bigger threat of the actual survivors and that's what we've been seeing. Eventually, you understand how to deal with the walkers and can easily avoid them, and it becomes more about trying to keep other groups from taking what you have, or treating to eat you. It is more of an action drama than pure straight horror these days, but years in, I'm not sure how it could be different. Every zombie movie Ive ever seen has the survivors falling pretty fast, especially when they have fast, running zombies, so we don't really get this scenario where people are trying to actually live with the zombies. I haven't watched Z-Nation or a show like that so maybe that show has more of the immediate threat you mean? I don't know.
As for them being "immortal", come on, lol. Theyre just not going to randomly kill off their stars en masse. The deaths, when they come, have to actually have some impact. Otherwise, it would be a Lost-type scenario where they were just mowing down redshirts left and right.
Anyway, I appreciate the input. It led to a very civil discussion, which I like.
Ive been watching the show for seven seasons and I don't "realize" that.
Totally agree dude! Glad to hear you liked the season as well. I feel it's very underrated
Then don't have Rick's team in constant shootouts with them surviving and the other team dying. Either kill them off or find other ways to create drama or it starts getting predictable and boring. Might wanna stop with all the fakeouts as well (Judith, Glenn dumpster, Rick and motherfucking deer, Michonne in the shootout last episode). I don't accept the argument that they have all got better at surviving either. Guys like Merle, Shane, The Governor were all much tougher than Carl and Gabriel and indeed most of Rick's crew yet they all died. Andrea was developing into a pretty tough survivor yet she died. The show used to kill off a lot of people in the early days.
I understand that walkers aren't the main threat after several years of survival. Walkers are predictable, humans are not. Still though, I wish we could see a conflict with a human threat where the good guys aren't just straight up slaughtering redshirts. The gunplay is really cheesy and even the comic shies away from too much of it. I just want to see conflicts of a higher level of maturity and realism.
They don't have to kill off their stars en masse, but they definitely need to stop being so predictable. This shows fans always act like it is one of those shows where anybody can die at any time, but it simply isn't true anymore like it is for shows like Game of Thrones. Anyone can die at any time... except for Rick, Carl, Michonne, Carol, Daryl, etc.... Just switch it up a bit, keep us guessing. And whether they acknowledge it or not, the show has a canon storyline from the comic books. The producers can't keep teasing Rick's death when we know he will be around for quite a while. It is very predictable writing that acts like it is better than it is.
But yeah, appreciate the discussion. It is nice to be able to discuss and share differing opinions without bloodshed. As my last point I also want to say that Jeffrey Dean Morgan is doing a disservice to Negan's character and should have been casted as someone else.
Yes this is something else I forgot to add. Rick's team are not only amazing at surviving but they are also overpowered when it comes to killing. The episode where Maggie and Carol took out a base by themselves despite being kidnapped is a good example of this.
It's hit and miss in my opinion.
Seasons 3, 2, and 6 were probably the worst. (Or my least favorite I guess I should say.)
The TV series started to dip in quality the minute they started giving Kirkman more control.
A lot of stuff that works in comic books just does not work on TV.
Too many communities at the moment. I'll sound like a comic purist, but three groups against Negan was a good amount, it wasn't overwhelming.
If I recall correctly, Dale only died because of behind the scenes drama with the actor. He was supposed to die much later. Kinda ruins the moment for me. And actually it was pretty silly, if I recall how the zombie killed him. Snuck up in an open empty field and then used it's super zombie strength on him.
Considering your avatar is the worst character on the show bar none, your opinion means shit.
And? Just because the actor decided to leave didn't mean the character's death was silly. I don't think it was silly at all. That of course is your opinion.
For me it was well executed given the fact that the reason he died was thanks to Carl's stupidity, something that weighs on him heavily going into Season 3 (he mentions his regret in that season). The zombie had wandered onto the farm, found and killed a cow and Dale turned up not long after it had happened. Dale is an old man so is it that surprising that he was overpowered?
Also as i explained, the scene was very sad and surprising at the time and compared to some other character deaths, i found this to be one of the saddest "in my opinion".
Point is you have your views and i have mine. We should leave it there because neither will think otherwise
Shane Walsh is, in my opinion, one of the most complex and developed character the tv show have had to this day. He had such presence ( and I am not talking about the fact he obviously had quite a good amount of screentime ) even now people are interested in the ''what if he was still alive'' '' how would he have delt with X ''... The fact not everyone likes and/or understands him brings debates which is usually very telling if we are trying to find an actual well written, realistic and morally grey character.
You can be a complex piece of shit. But you're still a piece of shit. And shane is a piece of shit.
Season 7 killed more major characters than the first two seasons and the same amount as Season 3, except that Season 7's deaths actually contributed to the story and were well handled, and Season 3's deaths sacrificed potential storytelling for shock value and sucked shit. The only good, fitting death that didn't screw up potential storytelling in Season 3 was Lori's. As for Season 2, Dale only died because the actor wanted out, which is why his death scene was stupid and contrived as hell. Shane was expected to die, and nobody cared about Sophia. Not exactly a cutthroat season as far as character deaths go; most of the main group was perfectly safe in Season 2. And nobody major died in Season 1 at all.
And while the miraculous shootouts are indeed silly, let's not pretend the early seasons were any less ridiculous with plot armor. In fact, Season 3 had some of the worst examples.
Shane wasn't tough at all, first of all. Physically imposing, sure, but he was a mental wreck who started losing it pretty damn quick, already aiming a gun at his supposed best friend within a day or two of his return. Shane was never going to survive, being the weak willed shit that he was who couldn't handle losing the woman he was pining after.
As for the Governor and Merle, most of Rick's group has survived thus far because they're not borderline suicidal, self-destructive, and idiotic in making villainous plans (Governor) or erratic as hell to the point of actively seeking trouble and eventually going on a suicide mission because they've alienated everyone around them (Merle). They respond to threats that crop up rather than go looking for them like both of these characters. This is why bad guys in this world die despite it being a survival of the fittest world. Because when you go looking for trouble like all the bad guys in this series do, you make enemies and you make situations worse for yourself until it eventually catches up with you.
You act like the base had a big group in it when there was only three women they needed to worry about by the time they started fighting back. And they didn't even fight the reinforcements that showed up after the fact, they just tricked them. They survived through trickery and surprise, not going head to head with an army regiment.
And let's not forget that Carol was beaten and being tortured by the end of Season 6 by a single dude. The characters are always either triumphant or totally screwed depending on the circumstances. They don't breeze past challenges. Hell, that base attack you mentioned functioned as a big drama magnet for Carol and to a lesser extent Maggie, so it's not like they got out unscathed. Like you said, they should either kill characters or do something else to build drama, right? Well, that's exactly what they do, all the damn time. The present threat of death is just a part of the world. The characters' storylines are always about more than avoiding death.
Bottom line is that they were kidnapped and tied up I think and still managed to escape and kill their kidnappers and kill everyone else in the base who somehow didn't notice/hear what was going on. They also escaped without so much as a scratch. That's ridiculous. I know a lot of people like Carol and Maggie but there is just no getting out of it that that is ridiculous. I don't accept that.
The show killed Shane, Merle, The Governor etc because it wanted them out of the show rather than them being more incompetent than Rick's guys in my opinion. I also felt that The Governor was conviniently dumbed down towards the end of his reign (killing Hershel instead of the bigger threat Michonne and then him and all his men convieniently forgetting Michonne was there so she could kill him). Didn't he also have a tank in one of the battles yet somehow didn't do much damage with it? Lmao.
Just like Negan and his guys were dumbed down/weakened in the last episode. A walker managed to distract every single one of his guys and they were unable to kill none of Rick's guys? Yeah right...
Your comparison makes about as much sense as me showing clips from Season 7 of Ezekiel having a heart to heart with Carol as his true self, talking about why and when he started putting on his king persona, or Morgan's mental breakdown, or Richard's emotional recollection of his daughter's death, or Tara talking to Judith to let out her growing feelings of deceiving the group to someone, or Rick talking to Michonne about acceptance and how he had to accept Judith isn't his child... and comparing them to Hershel's unlimited shotgun sequence, or Carl's endless trips out of the house with absolutely no one noticing, or Lori whispering in Rick's ear like a cliche villainess while the camera closes in on Rick's face with ridiculously cheesy music, or Lori flipping the car like an idiot, or Dale's painfully stupid death scene, or the group spending ten moronic minutes trying to get the stupid well-walker out of the well.
And there's plenty of other stupid moments from Season 2 to choose from too, same with Season 7. And there were also plenty of great, emotional character moments to choose from in Season 7 as well. I won't deny Season 7 is more spectacle than any other season, but fuck it, I'll take spectacle over endless monotony like Season 2. And I'm not opposed to long stretches of character development, either. After all, Season 4 is my favorite season, and people often complain about how slow it moved when it spent all that time developing its characters and telling their stories. It's just that Season 4's stories were interesting, and Season 2's stories were painfully boring with half-assed character development for everyone except Rick, Hershel, Shane, and Daryl.
Yeah, I don't think you remember that sequence. They jumped Molly after getting free of their binds and Paula showed up literally right after and saw what they did, and went searching for them. Then 'Chelle surprise attacked them a little later because she was already alerted by all the noise, and died because it was two against one. Then Paula confronted them and died. And that was it, other than the dudes they hid from afterwards and burned alive because they walked into a trap.
If they had kidnapped the two of them for the purposes of killing them, I'd agree. But they didn't. They wanted their friend back, so they didn't kill them on the spot and were instead waiting for more backup. This gave Carol time to cut herself free with her little crucifix, and get Maggie free so they could plan a surprise attack.
Not true. Glenn is later shown examining several bruises on Maggie's back, which are then explained to have been the impetus for her pregnancy complications. Carol also got kicked around a bit by the one dude who went nuts.
Well, yeah... obviously people die when the writers decide it's time, but they were nevertheless incompetent in their own rights for all the reasons I stated.
No, he was always stupid. Every decision he ever made in Season 3 was stupid. He had a great setup and ruined it all over a pointless war that was also his own fault. He was also open to being killed countless times and only didn't due to plot armor. He was almost as bad as Negan in that regard. Almost.
As for not killing Michonne., she was not a perceived threat to any of his men. They were more focused on the bullets flying their way. They knew nothing about her or how dangerous she was, especially since she was tied up. And the Governor had just gotten shot and was retreating while she rolled off in the opposite direction, got loose and retreated somewhere. You can argue plot armor for him not choosing Michonne, and I certainly wouldn't disagree, but he threatened Hershel for the specific purpose of going after the more defenseless target to scare Rick into giving in (and has long since put aside his grievances with Michonne after coming to terms with the fact that he was delusional about Penny), and then killed him because he lost it when his plan failed.
Not to the characters, no, but the tank was the singular reason the prison fell at all. That also wasn't the Governor's stupidity, surprisingly, but the ineptness of the people commanding it.
A walker seemingly just appearing and piling on top of their leader and possibly killing him? Why wouldn't that distract them all? That made perfect sense, since the group used that literal first second of distraction to fight back. Not being able to kill any of the group, though? Yeah, that's plot armor for you, although there were casualties on Rick's side, just not main characters. Rosita was also shot and put out of commission early on.
They also weren't really weakened at all, as it was pretty clear Alexandria was losing that whole skirmish. It was only when the Kingdom and Hilltop intervened that the Saviors got their asses kicked.
yeah, whatever.
I disagree on both of the things you said. For a lot of us it does not suck and we don't need to "wake up". If you don't like it that's fine just don't say things like that which will cause arguments no doubt
I agree with you. For me ever since they left the prison mid season 4 it's slowly gone down hill in my opinion. Season 5 was ok but i definitely agree with you that the original vibe is not there anymore. I always loved the group struggling to survive where as now they don't struggle the same. Yes they have Negan to deal with but thanks to having communities they work together. I also preferred past seasons because we only had a handful of character's to focus on. Nowadays there are just far too many. Half of them don't get the screentime necessary for me to get attached to them like i did for those in past seasons. I care more about T Dog than pretty much every newish character on the show these days lol (i did like T Dog by the way, i felt he didn't get enough credit).
Even some of the main characters don't even get the same amount of focus due to having to switch between everyone.
But yeah that's the main reason I don't enjoy the show as much as i used to, however, i'll stay loyal and continue to watch as long as my fav characters are still around
I found Negan acting super good, but this Season did went downhill to me compared to the other ones, specially after the shit cliffhanger at the end of Season 6 which lead me to not even care about two character I liked a lot dying on the beginning of Season 7 to Negan.