So what? That doesn't mean anything. Brothers, sisters, parents.. and all other relatives.. are just normal people like everyone else. Sharing blood does not mean you have special privileges or get different treatment.
Eleanor's "cold, hurtful" betrayal was such weirdly placed that I went "whaat?" and not the good kind, but completely incongruous and absurd… more kind. She was suddenly standing in the middle of the crowd before Joan, just hanging around. There was so little development to her character and her arch was so narrow and empty that we can't feel worried or angry. It's unlogical as well, impossible to justify this treason or find any clarification of why did she do it.
If that was supposed to get my blood boiling, well it failed, as Eleanor was just there somewhere, not making a difference to the story. If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava or David, not someone who had 20 lines max and her screentime was about 10 minutes in total.
If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
I agree with you how disgusting Clint had been. Even after Max told the truth about Joan he still sided with Joan. If he didn't, this mess would never started.
David was right to not trust any of them.
Joan would have them get killed anyway before they left the gates of Richmond.
David already knew this.
If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
Not really, its just a trend I've seen in most violent video games. The most gruesome death that was shown for a woman in the games was Norma whom I can easily say doesn't belong in the attractive female character category. If its gruesome they simply hide the death or kill them quickly without showing the aftermath. I can't think that they would do a death similar to Badger.
Or it could just be a non violence against women approach in videogames as people like Anita Sarkeesian would just find more of a way to say video games are sexist against women
Not really, its just a trend I've seen in most violent video games. The most gruesome death that was shown for a woman in the games was Norm… morea whom I can easily say doesn't belong in the attractive female character category. If its gruesome they simply hide the death or kill them quickly without showing the aftermath. I can't think that they would do a death similar to Badger.
Or it could just be a non violence against women approach in videogames as people like Anita Sarkeesian would just find more of a way to say video games are sexist against women
I can't help but feel some people are overlooking some things that went down. Last you saw Eleanor and Tripp was the night before the "trial". You can later presume they were captured, since they have Tripp in custody. Eleanor reaction depends on how much she trusts you, meaning: how you handled the Conrad situation (Watch both situations to see how she reacts differently). Conrad Dead: 1:18:45 Conrad Alive: 1:21:45
If Conrad is alive you can presume that Joan is forcing Eleanor to turn against you using Tripp as leverage. If Conrad is dead, Joan manages to convince Eleanor that you are no good, which is the whole point of the staged trial: Joan is trying to take over and remove David out of the equation(since he is not a pushover like Lingard - controled trhough his addiction -and Clint - prob just a coward), creating a "Us and Them" situation and convincing her people that she is right, so that they swallow her greedyness disguised as justice. How well she does that depends on your past actions and those taken during the "trial": 1) Did you kill the driver? 2) Did you Kill Badger? 3) Did you kill Max? 4) Do you kill her? (right after you do you get the message: "everyone will remember that", she wins in a way!)
Although, some people have a point when it comes down to the murder of Tripp or Ava. It doens't make sense and it goes in the opposite direction of what she is trying to achieve! (assuming I'm right regarding her intentions)
I hope Tripp gets shot amids the chaos, Eleanor will then try to nurse him back up just to realize that it's too late, it will suddenly hit her that she actually loved Tripp, and in that moment when the man she loves is about to die in her arms I want Javi to slowly bend down to her ear and whisper ever so softly "You caused all thissssss".
Seriously though I don't really care what happens to her, she still has to live with the heavy consequences of her actions after all, but I find it incredibly amusing that many people saw the betrayal coming all the way from Episode 1/2, even if it didn't pan out exactly like they thought.
in that moment when the man she loves is about to die in her arms I want Javi to slowly bend down to her ear and whisper ever so softly "You caused all thissssss".
Wow, what a fuckin prick!
I find it incredibly amusing that many people saw the betrayal coming all the way from Episode 1/2, even if it didn't pan out exactly like they thought.
I always found the concept more annoying than anything, personally.
I hope Tripp gets shot amids the chaos, Eleanor will then try to nurse him back up just to realize that it's too late, it will suddenly hit … moreher that she actually loved Tripp, and in that moment when the man she loves is about to die in her arms I want Javi to slowly bend down to her ear and whisper ever so softly "You caused all thissssss".
Seriously though I don't really care what happens to her, she still has to live with the heavy consequences of her actions after all, but I find it incredibly amusing that many people saw the betrayal coming all the way from Episode 1/2, even if it didn't pan out exactly like they thought.
If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
If they wanted to turn someone black they could've chosen Ava
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
So what? That doesn't mean anything. Brothers, sisters, parents.. and all other relatives.. are just normal people like everyone else. Sharing blood does not mean you have special privileges or get different treatment.
Yes, that kind of was the idea lol. But, as the first word of the next sentence says, this is just a joke so there's no need to get pissed about it, let's stay civil.
I always found the concept more annoying than anything, personally.
You found annoying that some individuals thought early on that Eleanor would eventually turn on Javi and co? If that's what you mean, I don't really understand why and I would be happy to hear your reasoning on it. Or did you find the betrayal itself annoying?
in that moment when the man she loves is about to die in her arms I want Javi to slowly bend down to her ear and whisper ever so softly "You… more caused all thissssss".
Wow, what a fuckin prick!
I find it incredibly amusing that many people saw the betrayal coming all the way from Episode 1/2, even if it didn't pan out exactly like they thought.
I always found the concept more annoying than anything, personally.
Yes, that kind of was the idea lol. But, as the first word of the next sentence says, this is just a joke so there's no need to get pissed about it, let's stay civil.
That wasn't anger that was aimed at you, but rather incredulity that he'd be that insensitive.
You found annoying that some individuals thought early on that Eleanor would eventually turn on Javi and co? If that's what you mean, I don't really understand why and I would be happy to hear your reasoning on it. Or did you find the betrayal itself annoying?
Well first off, the betrayal that actually happened barely feels like a betrayal anyway because we've barely gotten any screentime for Eleanor, particularly for those who favored Tripp for whatever reason, and feels really tacked on to a situation that could have easily been summed up with having Joan say "Oh, we knew where you were all along--further proof of your brother's impotence as the Security Leader, no doubt. It was just easier to apprehend you when you were getting ready to put your plan to work under the likely assumption that you would have the element of surprise."
Second, that whole "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" thing is just...ugh! I didn't like how so many people hyper-focused on that undertone with Carley and Lilly and I don't like that idea being applied here & now. It doesn't help that this episode was already full of ship-teasing, to the point that Tripp was legitimately irritating to me. The only bright side is that the love triangle angle was nonexistent to begin with and Eleanor will almost certainly get some focus next episode where she'll have to face the reality of what she did.
Wow, what a fuckin prick!
Yes, that kind of was the idea lol. But, as the first word of the next sentence says, this is just a joke … moreso there's no need to get pissed about it, let's stay civil.
I always found the concept more annoying than anything, personally.
You found annoying that some individuals thought early on that Eleanor would eventually turn on Javi and co? If that's what you mean, I don't really understand why and I would be happy to hear your reasoning on it. Or did you find the betrayal itself annoying?
That wasn't anger that was aimed at you, but rather incredulity that he'd be that insensitive.
Ah, alright. Apologies for misunderstanding.
Well first off, the betrayal that actually happened barely feels like a betrayal anyway because we've barely gotten any screentime for Eleanor
Well Eleanor selling Javi out to Joan, the woman who ordered New Frontier to destroy her home and kill her friends in the process, effectively putting him and his family in a great danger when they were in it together since the arrival to Richmond rightfully feels like a betrayal to some. Although, I agree that Eleanor could have used some much needed screentime before that.
Second, that whole "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" thing is just...ugh! I didn't like how so many people hyper-focused on that undertone with Carley and Lilly and I don't like that idea being applied here & now.
To be fair I didn't see any of the early Eleanor detractors say she was shady because of the "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" trope. It was just a general, albeit paranoid, distrust towards her despite not one susbantial proof to back it up. It was just that feel that something is not right, you know?
Yes, that kind of was the idea lol. But, as the first word of the next sentence says, this is just a joke so there's no need to get pissed a… morebout it, let's stay civil.
That wasn't anger that was aimed at you, but rather incredulity that he'd be that insensitive.
You found annoying that some individuals thought early on that Eleanor would eventually turn on Javi and co? If that's what you mean, I don't really understand why and I would be happy to hear your reasoning on it. Or did you find the betrayal itself annoying?
Well first off, the betrayal that actually happened barely feels like a betrayal anyway because we've barely gotten any screentime for Eleanor, particularly for those who favored Tripp for whatever reason, and feels really tacked on to a situation that could have easily been summed up with having Joan say "Oh, we knew where you were all along--further proof of your brother's impotence as the Security Leader,… [view original content]
To be fair I didn't see any of the early Eleanor detractors say she was shady because of the "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" trope. It was just a general, albeit paranoid, distrust towards her despite not one susbantial proof to back it up. It was just that feel that something is not right, you know?
Eleanor as an alternative love interest and Eleanor as a spy/traitor were the two main subjects revolving around her for a while. And there were a few claiming that the fact that she was flirting with Javier was all the proof they needed of the latter, so I think my concern was justified.
That wasn't anger that was aimed at you, but rather incredulity that he'd be that insensitive.
Ah, alright. Apologies for misunderst… moreanding.
Well first off, the betrayal that actually happened barely feels like a betrayal anyway because we've barely gotten any screentime for Eleanor
Well Eleanor selling Javi out to Joan, the woman who ordered New Frontier to destroy her home and kill her friends in the process, effectively putting him and his family in a great danger when they were in it together since the arrival to Richmond rightfully feels like a betrayal to some. Although, I agree that Eleanor could have used some much needed screentime before that.
Second, that whole "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" thing is just...ugh! I didn't like how so many people hyper-focused on that undertone with Carley and Lilly and I don't like that idea being applied here & now.
To be… [view original content]
I hope she'll live, in my play through (Conrad is alive) she did it out of fear over anything else. She didn't know that Joan would turn on her like that.
This is one of the things I'll give the episode credit for-- I thought it did a good job of exploring the concept of what constitutes family; who you consider it to be, and which 'family' is the one worth fighting for. David might be family by blood, but is when you look at him as a person, in comparison to some of your other allies, is he really worth risking your life to fight for? Despite the episode's name being Thicker Than Water, I think it did a good job trying to stay neutral on the concept of family. I remember in the reddit AMA they did a while back where one of the designers said the internal pitch of episode 4 was something to the effect of "who is your true family in this situation?"
And I, for one, thought the episode did a relatively good job with that. Of course, I can't help but shake the feeling I'm going to be one of the only people on here that feels that way. But screw it, I'm gonna say it anyways.
So what? That doesn't mean anything. Brothers, sisters, parents.. and all other relatives.. are just normal people like everyone else. Sharing blood does not mean you have special privileges or get different treatment.
Well, you do have a good point there. Thank you.
Telltale's The Walking Dead always had this "family"-theme with people completely unrelated by blood. Like, Lee & Clementine, Kenny & Clementine, Clementine & AJ etc.
True friends can be way more of a "family" than any person you share your "blood" and basically your DNA with. And the game shows that constantly, which is great. I do have the feeling Telltale now tries to show the opposite by introducing people who may be considered "family" by blood, but not family in the emotional sense.
This is one of the things I'll give the episode credit for-- I thought it did a good job of exploring the concept of what constitutes family… more; who you consider it to be, and which 'family' is the one worth fighting for. David might be family by blood, but is when you look at him as a person, in comparison to some of your other allies, is he really worth risking your life to fight for? Despite the episode's name being Thicker Than Water, I think it did a good job trying to stay neutral on the concept of family. I remember in the reddit AMA they did a while back where one of the designers said the internal pitch of episode 4 was something to the effect of "who is your true family in this situation?"
And I, for one, thought the episode did a relatively good job with that. Of course, I can't help but shake the feeling I'm going to be one of the only people on here that feels that way. But screw it, I'm gonna say it anyways.
I feel that's the purpose. I feel like the real intention behind having David reappear is exploring that exact concept-- he may be family by blood, but is he family in an emotionally fundamental sense? On one hand, while there is some underlying loyalty in the fact that he's Javier's brother, there's also the dilemma of whether or not that bond is worth the trouble David represents.
In all honesty, the more I think about it, I think David might just be one of the best characters of the season. He might not exactly be the most... trustworthy guy, but he's conflicting as hell, and has some real dimension and complexity to him. Kate was right-- he's the kind of person that thrives in a brawl. In a fight. He may be a father, but he even admits it himself-- it's not truly the life he wants to live, and he's more or less pretending that it is. In his own twisted way, he thinks going back to the army is helping his family... his internal attempt to rationalize the dilemma of family vs. himself. It adds some extra layers to why he's so keen on calling Javi out for being the selfish one-- he's just as guilty of it himself, he just doesn't want to admit it. He probably takes it out on Javi because he knows, deep down, that Javier knows exactly how he's feeling. The conflicting emotions and all that. Despite his violent behavior towards Javier, I think he's leaning on him a lot more than people realize-- again, in his own twisted way, he's looking to Javier for some form of guidance. Javier was the golden brother in the family, and David's always felt like he's living in the shadow. Part of his anger is just the jealousy that stems from that. Furthermore, I'd imagine that being by your father's deathbed, only for your father to be more worried about his other son-- your own brother, who isn't even there-- would definitely weigh pretty heavily on a person. There's a feeling of contempt and anguish from that that I don't think Javier could ever hope to fully understand.
Maybe it's just me, but I think his character is interesting as fuck.
Well, you do have a good point there. Thank you.
Telltale's The Walking Dead always had this "family"-theme with people completely unrelate… mored by blood. Like, Lee & Clementine, Kenny & Clementine, Clementine & AJ etc.
True friends can be way more of a "family" than any person you share your "blood" and basically your DNA with. And the game shows that constantly, which is great. I do have the feeling Telltale now tries to show the opposite by introducing people who may be considered "family" by blood, but not family in the emotional sense.
I am almost certain the implication is that this betrayal was Eleanor attempting to appeal to Joan– thinking she could ensure the safety of everyone by talking to her, or working out some kind of deal. We have to remember that she hasn't seen firsthand just how much of a snake Joan was. How manipulative and underhanded she is, and what she was willing to stoop to in order to achieve her goals or retain her position. I imagine Eleanor very quickly regretted everything the second she saw Tripp get pulled out onto the stage, though. At that point, it becomes very apparent that nobody meant anything to Joan, except as a means to an end. Lingard was right on the money– she is a cruel bitch.
Comments
So what? That doesn't mean anything. Brothers, sisters, parents.. and all other relatives.. are just normal people like everyone else. Sharing blood does not mean you have special privileges or get different treatment.
My god, there is a very inappropriate race-related joke that could be made here, but I'm not going to be the one who makes it
I'm glad you didn't make that choice homie, it could've been dark
Damn, now I'm curious
I agree with you how disgusting Clint had been. Even after Max told the truth about Joan he still sided with Joan. If he didn't, this mess would never started.
David was right to not trust any of them.
Joan would have them get killed anyway before they left the gates of Richmond.
David already knew this.
I wasn't gonna say anything about it initially either.
Oh, was that their excuse...?
I honestly have no clue what Eleanor thought since she acts surprised Tripp gets killed yet she's the reason he got captured.
Not really, its just a trend I've seen in most violent video games. The most gruesome death that was shown for a woman in the games was Norma whom I can easily say doesn't belong in the attractive female character category. If its gruesome they simply hide the death or kill them quickly without showing the aftermath. I can't think that they would do a death similar to Badger.
Or it could just be a non violence against women approach in videogames as people like Anita Sarkeesian would just find more of a way to say video games are sexist against women
I know. Just referrencing Jane(and apparently Tavia), to be honest.
I can't help but feel some people are overlooking some things that went down. Last you saw Eleanor and Tripp was the night before the "trial". You can later presume they were captured, since they have Tripp in custody. Eleanor reaction depends on how much she trusts you, meaning: how you handled the Conrad situation (Watch both situations to see how she reacts differently).
Conrad Dead: 1:18:45
Conrad Alive: 1:21:45
If Conrad is alive you can presume that Joan is forcing Eleanor to turn against you using Tripp as leverage. If Conrad is dead, Joan manages to convince Eleanor that you are no good, which is the whole point of the staged trial: Joan is trying to take over and remove David out of the equation(since he is not a pushover like Lingard - controled trhough his addiction -and Clint - prob just a coward), creating a "Us and Them" situation and convincing her people that she is right, so that they swallow her greedyness disguised as justice. How well she does that depends on your past actions and those taken during the "trial": 1) Did you kill the driver? 2) Did you Kill Badger? 3) Did you kill Max? 4) Do you kill her? (right after you do you get the message: "everyone will remember that", she wins in a way!)
Although, some people have a point when it comes down to the murder of Tripp or Ava. It doens't make sense and it goes in the opposite direction of what she is trying to achieve! (assuming I'm right regarding her intentions)
In all honesty, I saw it coming. I'm just kinda 'meh' about it.
I lost Tripp because her. He was my second favourite behind David. Sorry Ele, but you'll be dead in next episode.
Did you forget that Clem has already been in herd and hasn't died?
Do you think Tripp would approve of that?
My god. It doesn't take much for Telltale to make nearly everyone hate a character...
Well it's not like she wanted him dead, right?
Definitely not. She freaks out if you choose Ava and completely breaks down if he dies.
Javier doesn't know that
Well to me I didn't feel like it affected the plan so I can forgive her.
I hope Tripp gets shot amids the chaos, Eleanor will then try to nurse him back up just to realize that it's too late, it will suddenly hit her that she actually loved Tripp, and in that moment when the man she loves is about to die in her arms I want Javi to slowly bend down to her ear and whisper ever so softly "You caused all thissssss".
Seriously though I don't really care what happens to her, she still has to live with the heavy consequences of her actions after all, but I find it incredibly amusing that many people saw the betrayal coming all the way from Episode 1/2, even if it didn't pan out exactly like they thought.
Wow, what a fuckin prick!
I always found the concept more annoying than anything, personally.
what? is this tne south of the trend?
what? is this tne south of the trend?
In a Hispanic family blood is everything.
Yes, that kind of was the idea lol. But, as the first word of the next sentence says, this is just a joke so there's no need to get pissed about it, let's stay civil.
You found annoying that some individuals thought early on that Eleanor would eventually turn on Javi and co? If that's what you mean, I don't really understand why and I would be happy to hear your reasoning on it. Or did you find the betrayal itself annoying?
That wasn't anger that was aimed at you, but rather incredulity that he'd be that insensitive.
Well first off, the betrayal that actually happened barely feels like a betrayal anyway because we've barely gotten any screentime for Eleanor, particularly for those who favored Tripp for whatever reason, and feels really tacked on to a situation that could have easily been summed up with having Joan say "Oh, we knew where you were all along--further proof of your brother's impotence as the Security Leader, no doubt. It was just easier to apprehend you when you were getting ready to put your plan to work under the likely assumption that you would have the element of surprise."
Second, that whole "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" thing is just...ugh! I didn't like how so many people hyper-focused on that undertone with Carley and Lilly and I don't like that idea being applied here & now. It doesn't help that this episode was already full of ship-teasing, to the point that Tripp was legitimately irritating to me. The only bright side is that the love triangle angle was nonexistent to begin with and Eleanor will almost certainly get some focus next episode where she'll have to face the reality of what she did.
That is the hispanic's problem then, neiter mine, nor the world's.
Ah, alright. Apologies for misunderstanding.
Well Eleanor selling Javi out to Joan, the woman who ordered New Frontier to destroy her home and kill her friends in the process, effectively putting him and his family in a great danger when they were in it together since the arrival to Richmond rightfully feels like a betrayal to some. Although, I agree that Eleanor could have used some much needed screentime before that.
To be fair I didn't see any of the early Eleanor detractors say she was shady because of the "Two chicks seem to like the same guy, so clearly one of them is bad" trope. It was just a general, albeit paranoid, distrust towards her despite not one susbantial proof to back it up. It was just that feel that something is not right, you know?
Eleanor as an alternative love interest and Eleanor as a spy/traitor were the two main subjects revolving around her for a while. And there were a few claiming that the fact that she was flirting with Javier was all the proof they needed of the latter, so I think my concern was justified.
Javier is Hispanic. Ya you can play him how you want but there is a reason to make the game about family and make the main characters Hispanic.
This doesn't mean that Clementine can't teach them how to do that.
I hope she'll live, in my play through (Conrad is alive) she did it out of fear over anything else. She didn't know that Joan would turn on her like that.
This is one of the things I'll give the episode credit for-- I thought it did a good job of exploring the concept of what constitutes family; who you consider it to be, and which 'family' is the one worth fighting for. David might be family by blood, but is when you look at him as a person, in comparison to some of your other allies, is he really worth risking your life to fight for? Despite the episode's name being Thicker Than Water, I think it did a good job trying to stay neutral on the concept of family. I remember in the reddit AMA they did a while back where one of the designers said the internal pitch of episode 4 was something to the effect of "who is your true family in this situation?"
And I, for one, thought the episode did a relatively good job with that. Of course, I can't help but shake the feeling I'm going to be one of the only people on here that feels that way. But screw it, I'm gonna say it anyways.
Well, you do have a good point there. Thank you.
Telltale's The Walking Dead always had this "family"-theme with people completely unrelated by blood. Like, Lee & Clementine, Kenny & Clementine, Clementine & AJ etc.
True friends can be way more of a "family" than any person you share your "blood" and basically your DNA with. And the game shows that constantly, which is great. I do have the feeling Telltale now tries to show the opposite by introducing people who may be considered "family" by blood, but not family in the emotional sense.
I feel that's the purpose. I feel like the real intention behind having David reappear is exploring that exact concept-- he may be family by blood, but is he family in an emotionally fundamental sense? On one hand, while there is some underlying loyalty in the fact that he's Javier's brother, there's also the dilemma of whether or not that bond is worth the trouble David represents.
In all honesty, the more I think about it, I think David might just be one of the best characters of the season. He might not exactly be the most... trustworthy guy, but he's conflicting as hell, and has some real dimension and complexity to him. Kate was right-- he's the kind of person that thrives in a brawl. In a fight. He may be a father, but he even admits it himself-- it's not truly the life he wants to live, and he's more or less pretending that it is. In his own twisted way, he thinks going back to the army is helping his family... his internal attempt to rationalize the dilemma of family vs. himself. It adds some extra layers to why he's so keen on calling Javi out for being the selfish one-- he's just as guilty of it himself, he just doesn't want to admit it. He probably takes it out on Javi because he knows, deep down, that Javier knows exactly how he's feeling. The conflicting emotions and all that. Despite his violent behavior towards Javier, I think he's leaning on him a lot more than people realize-- again, in his own twisted way, he's looking to Javier for some form of guidance. Javier was the golden brother in the family, and David's always felt like he's living in the shadow. Part of his anger is just the jealousy that stems from that. Furthermore, I'd imagine that being by your father's deathbed, only for your father to be more worried about his other son-- your own brother, who isn't even there-- would definitely weigh pretty heavily on a person. There's a feeling of contempt and anguish from that that I don't think Javier could ever hope to fully understand.
Maybe it's just me, but I think his character is interesting as fuck.
I am almost certain the implication is that this betrayal was Eleanor attempting to appeal to Joan– thinking she could ensure the safety of everyone by talking to her, or working out some kind of deal. We have to remember that she hasn't seen firsthand just how much of a snake Joan was. How manipulative and underhanded she is, and what she was willing to stoop to in order to achieve her goals or retain her position. I imagine Eleanor very quickly regretted everything the second she saw Tripp get pulled out onto the stage, though. At that point, it becomes very apparent that nobody meant anything to Joan, except as a means to an end. Lingard was right on the money– she is a cruel bitch.
She's dead first chance I get. I've had it with traitor bullshit in these games, and its her fault that Tripp or Ava dies.