actually while there are some comparisons between Gabe and Kenny i think those comparisons fit more with Conrad since does have a similar character arc what with His Wife Dying and he becomes reckless and then later on Redeeming himself.
The difference is Kenny made up for it. He sacrificed so much and while at first Kenny was a dick in season 1, in season 2 he made up for it by wanting the best for clementine and AJ.
So far Gabe has little to make up for what hes done. All he's bothered about is saving his Dad and not realising the current situation. I'm willing to give Gabe a second change though just like i gave to Kenny
I can see you are just covering your ears yelling "la la la la Ican'thearyou la la la". Look I am not trying to degrade Kenny's character. I… more am just exposing the hypocrisy of Gabe haters and Kenny worshipers. Prime example, one which you yourself mentioned.
Christ, here we go again with this point. No matter what Kenny said he is still not responsible for Lee looking like an asshole. Lee is the one who had the option to kill or leave the girl. The only reason you think Kenny made Lee look like an asshole is because he informed Lilly of what he did or didn't do instead of keeping it to himself. There are consequences to your actions and this is it.
The exact thing can be said about Gabe exposing Javi to the group. In fact take a look for yourself:
Christ, here we go again with this point. No matter what Gabe said he is still not responsible for Javi looking like an asshole. Javi is the one who had the option to kill or leave C… [view original content]
You can basically say that about any character then? They have all done the same or similar shit Kenny AND Gabe has. By making these points against all characters you might as well be saying we should all be neutral toward them and not choose who we like and dont like.
He poured alcohol into Kate's wound
Clem injects drugs into a baby, without cleaning the needle or removing the clothing. She just j… moreams it straight thru AJ's shoulder.
determinantly shot at the feet of an unarmed man.
Clem shot at the head of an unarmed man, in a fit.
rushed out of a hiding space and indirectly got Javi stabbed.
In sea2epi2 Clem can have the choice to run into a group with AKs, while tied-up, to attempt to save Alvin. What was she trying to accomplish here?
ratted out Javi about Conrad.
Clem's no snitch, but Javi is the biggest snitch there is. Javi can snitch on Clem for two murders on two different ocassions. Javi can rat Clem when she kills Eli and when Clem killed Lingard. The Lingard one is the worst, he says Clem killed Lingard in public in front of everyone in the NF. Gabe doesn't really seem that bad if you compare it to that.
All im saying is that all of you guys are bias.
You see, in your entire little rant, you failed to mention a few key reasons as to why Kenny doesn't receive the same type of hatred that Gabe does, not to mention some of your points are just plain wrong. But don't fret because I'm certainty willing to outline them for you.
First of all, you claim that Kenny's whinging is just as bad as Gabe's. That's not true. What you need to understand here is that, while Kenny does do a hell of a lot of complaining, he has actual legit reasons for doing it. His "whinging", as you put it, is due to a strong motivation in wanting to truly aid the group for the better in both season 1 and 2. Whether you personally agree with those suggestions doesn't matter, what's important is to look at why he's complaining and why he's suggesting such things. In Kenny's mindset from season 1, he felt that getting a boat for the group was their best bet to safety, that it's what would benefit the group above all else. But, with his hot headed and stubborn nature, he reacts badly when one chooses to argue with that plan. Why? Because to him, you disagreeing with the plan is like putting everyone at risk, including his own family and Clementine. The boat, in a lot of ways, was his instrument of hope, even more so after losing his family. He needed to hold onto the belief that it'd help, so doubting it does naturally cause him to react in anger.
The Larry situation, another example you try to use to demonstrate Kenny's supposed "whinging", is perfectly understandable in its actual context. Again, Kenny believed that by killing Larry, he was ensuring the safety of everyone in the meat locker and thus, the entire group. Should he have been more considerate? Of course, but his family were in danger so he reacted without completely thinking it through. In the long run, though, it's very likely that Larry had died and so, Kenny had done what was necessary for the survival of the group.
"He whines because you don't want to fight Carver head on." He does that because he believes that by giving in to someone like Carver's demands, you're giving up and showing weakness. You need to remember that Kenny was a fighter. He, even with the odds against him, always had to keep fighting for those that he loved. Carver was an enemy to that. He had to fight him and while, he is of course acting reckless, his motivation, the most important aspect to truly comprehend a character, is, as always, an act of decency, him trying to protect the group. "He whines because you take Luke's side." Luke, in Kenny's opinion, was a threat to the safety of the group. Kenny's stubborn. When he has a plan and believes that it'll benefit the group, he sticks to it no matter what. "He whines and blames you for Saritas death whether or not you cut her arm off." Fair enough. Kenny acted wrong. But he was grieving and didn't actually mean what he was saying. As shown when he actually apologises for his action in the next scene. But you failed to mention that, for some reason... "He whines if you disagree with Wellington. He whines if you side with Jane." Basically the same reason as to why he reacts in anger about the boat and Luke.
Now, as I've outlined pretty much all of Kenny's apparent "whining" and his reasons for doing so, let's take a look at Gabe. In his introduction, Gabe complains about his sleeping conditions. In a zombie apocalypse, when the world's gone to shit and it's basically nearly a miracle to even have a blanket at night, he's moaning about having to sleep in a secured, warm van because it doesn't suit his fancy. Is he thinking about anyone else when he does this? Nope, it's simply because Gabe's uncomfortable. And so, because he's uncomfortable, he annoyingly suggests to fuck safety and to stay in a place that's clearly occupied because he doesn't want to sleep in a "shitty, cramped van"... It's also referenced, all in the same episode, that Gabe has given Kate a hard time simply because she isn't his real mother. Oh, and he whinges that two grown adults smoke weed. That's all in his introduction. And none of those instances of complaining are because he want to help, but because he's a spoilt brat that just wants to get his own way. When he does actually try to help, though, he doesn't and runs away when his step-mother needed him, and then whinges because he couldn't help despite not doing anything to actually make up for the fact he couldn't help. Now, if you could find a single instance where Kenny does any whinging that's remotely similar to those of Gabe's, then congratulations, you've done the impossible. But so far, all of you've done is just selected certain scenes and taken them out of context to try and back up your wrong assumptions.
"he is responsible for Shawns death". No, he's not. Kenny went to save his son when Duck was under threat. I'm sure anyone that's a parent could understand that if your child was in danger, it's by pure instinct that you'd rush to save them and not the person you hardly know. Shawn's death was an unfortunate event and one that no one can be blamed for. "He ultimately gets Lee killed because he stole supplies from the stranger." First of all, don't generalise the scene as though Kenny was the only person who took the supplies, when it was in fact most of the group who engaged in the theft. It was a joint effort. Not entirely to blame on Kenny. And secondly, the only person who can be blamed for Lee's death is the one who actually directly caused it- The Stranger by kidnapping Clementine. No one forced him to kidnap a child and the only person that can be held responsibly for his actions is himself. Overall, though, some of the points you mentioned in that paragraph aren't all that wrong, but they are subjective and based on one's own opinion. And anyway, I've seen very few people claim that Gave fucks up EVERYTHING, so I don't really believe that point has much basis in your argument, really.
On to your final point. "You know if you don't kill Larry, Kenny is ready to let you die when Danny points a gun at you because he is scared." Yeah, I agree with that. Kenny did appear to be scared in that scene. But that doesn't make him a coward. People get scared all the time. And as the season progresses, he more than makes up for it, anyhow and he proves to be one of the bravest character in the game. "He was ready to let Lee die in ep 3 when he was caught under all those walkers." He wasn't being a coward in that scene. He was and even as a Kenny fan I can admit this, just being a dick. He was still angry about Lee not backing him up in the meat locker. He was being spiteful, not cowardly. " he also sells you out by making Lee look like an asshole for killing the girl on the streets. " Great, another scenario you've used out of context. Kenny mentioned that to enforce his argument to leave the motel, to tell everyone just how bad things were getting. He didn't mention it to make Lee look like an asshole as you suggest, he was bringing it up to convince Lilly and the others to up and leave. "In season 2 he breaks down whenever anything happens, and hides away in a tent yelling at everyone while throwing a tantrum." And that's just complete bullshit, no offence. Kenny rarely broke down when something bad happened. Sure, he'd be angry but he was always the one coming up with the ideas. He was always the one trying to actually get things done, while much of the Cabin Group went about like headless chickens, clueless as to what to do next. Oh, and what you described as a "tantrum", is a little something called grief. It tends to happen when you lose someone you cared about, like Kenny just did with Sarita. He picks himself quite quickly in the next scenes and goes on to help the Rebecca give birth, and doesn't break down. But you also failed to mention that.
To finish this up, the reason Gabe's so unpopular and Kenny isn't, is actually fairly simple. One's well written and developed. The other, that obviously being Gabe, isn't. You stirring up shit and calling us Kenny fans hypocrites because we don't like an annoying and poor written cliche like Gabe, is just looking for an argument.
I wasn't here for a day and you are talking about you won our discussion lol.
I am not all day in a forum so you should be patient to read any answers of someone.
Just easy. How old are you?
This discussion isn't about winning.
You just can't stand you can't change my mind.
There is something you lack: empathy.
It is fine your favorite character was being a prick sometimes, no matter what he did wrong.
You even tried to blame 11 year old Clementine determinantly for being mean and causing Kenny do bad things lol. Just to make things look less worde gor Kenny.
I still can't agree/understand some lost nutcase is beating a helpless grieving kid who just screamed for a little moment, but easily stopped screaming after he was left alone.
So basically you are telling we have to understand why the cannibals slaughtered Mark to eat him for survival, we agree or understand Mariana was killed over a cup of pudding for survival and raiding other communities for survival is ok or understandable.
For every bad shit person we can agree/ understand why someone did something bad for survival. Like we can understand Nate for robbing and killing innocent peoples around for yay..survival.
You see, in your entire little rant, you failed to mention a few key reasons as to why Kenny doesn't receive the same type of hatred that Ga… morebe does, not to mention some of your points are just plain wrong. But don't fret because I'm certainty willing to outline them for you.
First of all, you claim that Kenny's whinging is just as bad as Gabe's. That's not true. What you need to understand here is that, while Kenny does do a hell of a lot of complaining, he has actual legit reasons for doing it. His "whinging", as you put it, is due to a strong motivation in wanting to truly aid the group for the better in both season 1 and 2. Whether you personally agree with those suggestions doesn't matter, what's important is to look at why he's complaining and why he's suggesting such things. In Kenny's mindset from season 1, he felt that getting a boat for the group was their best bet to safety, that it's what would benefit the group above all else. … [view original content]
Kenny was a well-developed character and Gabe is easily a predictable poorly-written character. End of story. Come call me a hypocrite if you can, you don't scare me.
Kenny was a well-developed character and Gabe is easily a predictable poorly-written character. End of story. Come call me a hypocrite if you can, you don't scare me.
I wasn't here for a day and you are talking about you won our discussion lol.
I am not all day in a forum so you should be patient to read any answers of someone. Just easy. How old are you?
I never said anything about winning a discussion, that was the other guy who said that but considering that i made the original comment on 5th May and you were online on the 5th, i assumed you had read or ignored it. Fair enough then. Next time i will give you time before making a conclusion. My age? Why? Older than you i am pretty sure of that.
This discussion isn't about winning.
As said above, i did not say that this discussion was about winning, the other person did.
You just can't stand you can't change my mind.
Pardon? Just can't stand you can't? What does that mean? Lol. Well you can't change my mind either dear sir/madam.
There is something you lack: empathy.
Ahh the personal insult again. First of all you know absolutely nothing about my actual life outside these boards so how do you figure i lack empathy? How can you have the nerve to say something like that when you are basing it on one topic of discussion despite the fact i have said about 3 or 4 times now that I don't agree with what Kenny did? You seem to have got it in your head that i lack empathy just because i make a valid point as to the reasons behind his actions towards Arvo. So for the 3rd or 4th time i will copy and paste this until you finally understand what i said:
Agreeing with something someone does is completely different to "understanding the reasons" behind an action. For example, such as Lee may not agree with the group stealing supplies from the station wagon but he understood why the group did it. For survival.
So please understand that I do NOT agree with Kenny's violence towards Arvo BUT i completely understand HIS REASONS BEHIND HIS ACTIONS whether it is right or wrong. Do you get it now????
It is fine your favorite character was being a prick sometimes, no matter what he did wrong.
My favourite character is Lee actually but of course you wouldn't think that because you don't know anything about me. Kenny is obviously one of my favs and the reason I talk more about him is because people tend to discuss him more than they do about Lee.
You even tried to blame 11 year old Clementine determinantly for being mean and causing Kenny do bad things lol.
The proof is in the game Bonbon. If you can't see this then you are beyond help. Whether you like it or not Clem is determinantely INDIRECTLY to blame for Kenny attacking Arvo. Do you know what indirectly means? Look it up.
If she had convinced him to come by the fire then it does not happen because she calms him down or because he is just sat by the fire or whatever. My comment about the player being "mean" had nothing to do with what he did, i said players who didn't convince him were mean because they didn't want Kenny and the baby to come and sit by the fire and keep warm. That is what I was saying. I guess i will have to go into full detail of every single thing so that you don't misread from now on.
I still can't agree/understand some lost nutcase is beating a helpless grieving kid who just screamed for a little moment, but easily stopped screaming after he was left alone.
Sigh it really isn't hard to see what i am saying Bonbon. I have repeated myself several times and will continue to do so until you at least grasp what i said. Arvo screamed, twice, that would have been enough noise to alert walkers and put the group in danger. No one else knew if he would continue screaming, plus, Mike wasn't going to leave Arvo alone before Kenny stepped in so what if he did scream again? My question i have been constantly asking you that you have ignored is, what would you do if you were there in real life? Are you saying you would do nothing and continue to let him scream which would put your life in danger?
Kenny did what he did to Arvo (THAT I DON'T LIKE HIM DOING) BUT it was to protect everyone because walkers would show up if he kept making a noise. How can you honestly not see his reasons behind his actions? It's unbelievable you won't look at both sides of the coin. So one dimensional it really is. Here is the proof:
There is your proof that he wanted what was best for the group. It wasn't the best thing to do but took the initiative to stop the noise quickly. That is why i understand the reason behind what he did, even though i don't agree with the abuse. Finally as i feel the need to put him in a good light, i'll show you proof that he shows remorse/regret for knocking Arvo out:
And then his face here says it all:
So basically you are telling we have to understand why the cannibals slaughtered Mark to eat him for survival, we agree or understand Mariana was killed over a cup of pudding for survival and raiding other communities for survival is ok or understandable.
What are the differences of those characters Bonbon? Think about it for a moment...
Technically you can understand their reasons, however, the St John's and TNF raiding communities were all done for their own selfish needs. They were all selfishly looking out for themselves with no consideration for anyone else. Kenny on the other hand WAS looking out for the people he was with and not just himself. He had consideration for others unlike the St John's and TNF and that is what makes him a much better person than any of them and even you should admit that.
Badger on the other hand was just a psychopathic asshole who had no remorse and enjoyed shooting Mariana for no reason whatsoever. Even just before he died he was arrogant as hell and didn't care. Comparing these situations to Kenny is ridiculous because those characters were "genuine" antagonists. So in answer to your question, no you don't have to understand the St John's reasons or TNF/Badger because their reasons were motivated by greed and selfish beliefs for their own selves rather than for the good of other people like Kenny did and finally no i do not agree with what they did and if you think i do then you have no respect for me at all.
For every bad shit person we can agree/ understand why someone did something bad for survival. Like we can understand Nate for robbing and killing innocent peoples around for yay..survival.
Once again, what Nate did was in looking out for himself and took no one else's lives/feelings into consideration which also makes him similar to Badger in a lot ways. You don't have to understand his reasons because it's already there in plain sight. The same as i said before, greed and selfishness.
Very logical arguments Dan.
Lol you said this before i even posted haha! I think my points are very logical actually Bonbon. At least i am able to answer your questions or argue your points, unlike you seem to be able to do as i am still waiting for you answer mine.
I wasn't here for a day and you are talking about you won our discussion lol.
I am not all day in a forum so you should be patient to read… more any answers of someone.
Just easy. How old are you?
This discussion isn't about winning.
You just can't stand you can't change my mind.
There is something you lack: empathy.
It is fine your favorite character was being a prick sometimes, no matter what he did wrong.
You even tried to blame 11 year old Clementine determinantly for being mean and causing Kenny do bad things lol. Just to make things look less worde gor Kenny.
I still can't agree/understand some lost nutcase is beating a helpless grieving kid who just screamed for a little moment, but easily stopped screaming after he was left alone.
So basically you are telling we have to understand why the cannibals slaughtered Mark to eat him for survival, we agree or understand Mariana was killed over a cup of pudding for survival and raiding… [view original content]
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when someone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights. So it would be proper to beat Clem and Bonnie almost to death.
I wasn't here for a day and you are talking about you won our discussion lol.
I am not all day in a forum so you should be patient to rea… mored any answers of someone. Just easy. How old are you?
I never said anything about winning a discussion, that was the other guy who said that but considering that i made the original comment on 5th May and you were online on the 5th, i assumed you had read or ignored it. Fair enough then. Next time i will give you time before making a conclusion. My age? Why? Older than you i am pretty sure of that.
This discussion isn't about winning.
As said above, i did not say that this discussion was about winning, the other person did.
You just can't stand you can't change my mind.
Pardon? Just can't stand you can't? What does that mean? Lol. Well you can't change my mind either dear sir/madam.
There is something you lack: empathy.
Ahh the personal insult again. First… [view original content]
All I see are valid points which you refuse to counter.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights. So it would be proper to beat Clem and Bonnie almost to death.
Whether it be intentional or not, Arvo caused the panic on the ice, probably causing everyone to run (including Luke, but we didn't see that).
You can't blame either Clem nor Bonnie because their clear intention was to HELP/save Luke's life. No question it was stupid. Kenny even yelled Clementine should stop, not because it was a malicious intent, but because it was stupid to try. Kenny blamed neither of them or says "That's not on you." towards Clementine if she just covered Luke with her gun. He blamed Arvo for causing the panic. Whether it was Arvo's or Kenny's fault is debatable, if Kenny had eased up, maybe Arvo hadn't run. But in my playthrough I prevented most abuse and he still ran. So I guess Arvo gave a fuck and waited for the proper moment to get away coupled with fear of walkers.
I for one covered Luke and Bonnie went for him. And who does Bonnie blame? Clementine. And what exactly did she have to do with Luke's death in that moment other than not trying to get to him and putting more weight on the ice? Nothing. That's a + for humanity since people can get emotional as well. Not everything is logic.
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when so… moremeone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights. So it would be proper to beat Clem and Bonnie almost to death.
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
Calling you a hypocrite was justified because you were defending Arvo for his anger and grief over losing his sister but you were tearing Kenny apart for his anger what also highly contributed to his grief he has suffered previously such as when he lost Sarita recently. That is why i called you a hypocrite.
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when someone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
Lol you are the one who is acting butthurt with my fair and reasonable points when discussing Kenny's actions and not willing to even listen to what i say because you only view the scene in one dimension which is what i have been saying all along.
If you had any insight you would consider what i have said and why i have explained and shown my evidence of Kenny's reasons for what he did but instead you avoid the discussion and focus on one aspect of the argument as well as insult me further lol, so it seems pointless.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights.
Who was it that ran across the ice? Arvo did. He is the reason the ice started breaking up so how is that bullshit when it's a fact that happened in the game? Were you even playing the same game? You are blinded so much that you want to push the blame onto someone else for his actions on the ice. And no I don't blame Bonnie or Clem for trying to save Luke, why would i? You need to replay that scene and see that Arvo was solely to blame. Sorry but its true. The ice would not have cracked otherwise. The whole scene was stupid anyway in my opinion.
The whole group shouldn't have walked across. They should have found another way round.
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when so… moremeone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights. So it would be proper to beat Clem and Bonnie almost to death.
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
Calling you a hypocrite was justified because you w… moreere defending Arvo for his anger and grief over losing his sister but you were tearing Kenny apart for his anger what also highly contributed to his grief he has suffered previously such as when he lost Sarita recently. That is why i called you a hypocrite.
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when someone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
Lol you are the one who is acting butthurt with my fair and reasonable points when discussing Kenny's actions and not willing to even listen to what i say because you only view the scene in one dimension which is what i have been saying all along.
If you had any insight you would consider what i have said and why i have explained and shown my evidence of Kenny's reasons for what he did but instead… [view original content]
You are the butthurt one with constant whining about personal insults but you started this. You behave like an unsatisfied child.
Hence why i said "personal". The fact you don't know anything about me in real life and saying "i have something wrong with me" gives me every right to be offended. I hadn't said anything horrible to you UNTIL you said that to me and it was uncalled for just because you didn't like my views on Kenny.
Well i have said my piece. You still fail to answer my question or reply with constructive posts to what i have said so what more can i do when you continue to ignore?
Huh, really? I did a second run after S1 finished, but I remember Clem being upset Ben didn't come back(for whatever reason) but not Kenny riling up the group because of what happened. I only let Ben drop that one time though, I didn't when I bought the games on next Gen.
Huh, really? I did a second run after S1 finished, but I remember Clem being upset Ben didn't come back(for whatever reason) but not Kenny r… moreiling up the group because of what happened. I only let Ben drop that one time though, I didn't when I bought the games on next Gen.
Well damn, Completely forgot how she knew. Still though, that's not as bad as someone spitefully selling you out, she asks what he meant by "you did what you had to". That's just some slimy stuff, on Gabes part.
Can it not be that people just have different opinions? I like Ben which doesn't make it "Controversial!!!" Nor does it mean your a "hypocrite" if you hate Ben and Like Sarah or Gabe.
Say whatever the fuck you want, but first chance I get to pop/drop Gabe's ass I'm taking it.
Life's hard, but it's especially harder when you're stupid. Why, and I mean, why the HELL would he rat Javi out and cause a rift in the group in the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE when people are supposed to have each other's backs? Because of Gabe aka, the lil shithead, the group was weakened. Also, imagine if s1 ep1 Clem would've freaked and denied when Lee, at Hershel's farm, said he was her neighbour. What would've happened? If I were Hershel I wouldn't offer shelter to liars (rightfully so) and Lee & Clem would've died. Even at that age she was smarter than lil shithead Gabe.
I get that not all kids can be Clementime, but if tiny s1 Clem knew what to do then... I don't know what to tell ya.
Who even throws a FAMILY MEMBER under the bus anyway?
I could be wrong but don't people hate Gabe because he is a hotheaded teen who makes bad choices? But clem is also sometimes a hotheaded teen who has made even more bad choices but people still like clem. This just doesn't add up
Kenny = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
Gabe = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
When you break them down to their core, they are pretty similar. I realized the only reason most can not see this aside from being biased in this comparison is that Kenny has had the chance to redeem himself but Gabe hasn't, but the season isn't over yet and that can change.
That's what I was getting at. Although I can see why Clem is still more of an appealing character because her stepping out of line is rare. However, Kenny has made the same amount of mistakes if not more than Gabe. But because he is Kenny he gets a free pass.
I could be wrong but don't people hate Gabe because he is a hotheaded teen who makes bad choices? But clem is also sometimes a hotheaded teen who has made even more bad choices but people still like clem. This just doesn't add up
That's the point. He made a stupid decision because he was feeling heart broken and powerless after losing his sister. His entire arc is about wanting to make a difference but nobody taking the time to explain things to him (unless you the player choose to through Javi). In fact if you do so he calms down significantly. He is going through a similar situation to Clem in season two where nobody listens to her or trusts her except he is vocal about it.
He caused that there is no more cabin group? As far as i know they were the ones that found him on the ski lodge. He was protective about most of them except Jane. Gabe pulling out gun on Conrad was totally stupid decision, Javi would handle it
Kenny = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
Gabe = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
Whe… moren you break them down to their core, they are pretty similar. I realized the only reason most can not see this aside from being biased in this comparison is that Kenny has had the chance to redeem himself but Gabe hasn't, but the season isn't over yet and that can change.
Nothing you said is true or wrong. And actually nothing I said is true or wrong lol.
All what we did is assuming this and that.
Like I see most of your posts are about assuming things anyway.
Doesn't matter what is truth, in Telltale games it is about personal experiences and choices.
I have seen lots of peoples did say Kenny is an asshole, Kenny is nice, Gabe is a prick, Gabe is nice.
My version of Kenny is a man with a good heart but acting like a prick when things doesn't go his way and he easily get angered and agressive and beating/killing peoples. Some people hate this behavior, others think it is cool and badass.
I guess you chose to watch Carver to die..just an example.
And wether it is Arvo's fault or not, he wasn't the one who broke the ice from Luke. This was a bad accident.
But finally we can assume it was Jane's fault since she started this mess from the very beginning.
In fact everyone is right or wrong about their opinions lol.
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
Calling you a hypocrite was justified because you w… moreere defending Arvo for his anger and grief over losing his sister but you were tearing Kenny apart for his anger what also highly contributed to his grief he has suffered previously such as when he lost Sarita recently. That is why i called you a hypocrite.
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when someone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
Lol you are the one who is acting butthurt with my fair and reasonable points when discussing Kenny's actions and not willing to even listen to what i say because you only view the scene in one dimension which is what i have been saying all along.
If you had any insight you would consider what i have said and why i have explained and shown my evidence of Kenny's reasons for what he did but instead… [view original content]
That's what I was getting at. Although I can see why Clem is still more of an appealing character because her stepping out of line is rare. … moreHowever, Kenny has made the same amount of mistakes if not more than Gabe. But because he is Kenny he gets a free pass.
What do you mean who cares? Gabe was acting like a whiny bitch to Javier for saving his stupid life and he still acts like a liability after 4 years of apocalypse. Clementine and Mariana are WAY smarter than this piece of shit.
From what I remember, Kenny wasn't protective of any other characters but Clementine and Sarita, and then AJ. As for Gabe's actions, he made a rash decision that, in the end, was for safety in his perspective.
He caused that there is no more cabin group? As far as i know they were the ones that found him on the ski lodge. He was protective about most of them except Jane. Gabe pulling out gun on Conrad was totally stupid decision, Javi would handle it
Whilst I agree with some of your points, you have to remember than Kenny isn't just 'whining', he's, for the most part (Episode 3 onwards), grieving for his lost ones (Duck, Katjaa, Sarita, even Lee). Whilst many other people have lost loved ones as well and have gone past the grieving stage, Kenny never really had the chance to, as he was constantly faced with peril that would endanger his loved ones and he to, was willing to give up his life if it meant the safety of those he cared for. Does Kenny whine? Yes, like all characters, but he mostly grieves and goes through a depressive state of mind. If you can't understand and forgive Gabe for his 'whining', then I'm sure you can do the same for Kenny.
Your second paragraph, I greatly agree on, mostly during the parts where Kenny is willing to let Lee die if you don't agree with his actions or perspective at certain points and he has definitely endangered many other characters with his actions, however, your example for him 'fucking up' in Season 2 is easily justified by his emotional state. He's a wreck, he was beaten to a pulp and either saw his loved one with a bite mark with Clementine having not done anything about it (from his perspective) otherwise seeing Clementine chop off his loved one's arm, causing her to die in the middle of the walker horde, so it's a rather justified response. Remember, Kenny is only human with human emotions, there are times where humans lose control of their pragmatic/logical reactions and give in to their emotional/irrational ones.
Again, you do make some valid points about Kenny being a bit of a coward at some points in time, but don't disregard the moments where he's one of the bravest of them all - Kenny was the only person to go back and help Lee regardless of how he felt about him, he was the only one to actually show skepticism towards the St. John's before anyone even considered that they might be bad people, he did what was best for the group by taking the rations that were left alone in the open (possibly saving the group's lives, he can also help Lee with Danny (although at a cost), he's the only one who's really willing to challenge Lilly's mindset on staying at the motel, he was willing to sacrifice himself to save Christa (Whom he assumed was pregnant) and to give Ben a merciful death (which I honestly think was a shoddy send off for S1 Kenny, they could've just had him shoot Ben then rejoin the group without locking the gate, then have the Christa and radio scene happen after), he was the only one willing to challenge Carver's group (at a cost, or multiple), he was the only one that stood up for Clementine when Carver was trying to find who stole the radio and he managed to pull himself together to ensure that Rebecca gave birth successfully. How many moments of heroism or confidence has Gabe had to at least contrast his mistakes and cowardice again?
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actually while there are some comparisons between Gabe and Kenny i think those comparisons fit more with Conrad since does have a similar character arc what with His Wife Dying and he becomes reckless and then later on Redeeming himself.
Typical that he/she couldn't make a valid argument or answer my questions to the points i made
The difference is Kenny made up for it. He sacrificed so much and while at first Kenny was a dick in season 1, in season 2 he made up for it by wanting the best for clementine and AJ.
So far Gabe has little to make up for what hes done. All he's bothered about is saving his Dad and not realising the current situation. I'm willing to give Gabe a second change though just like i gave to Kenny
You can basically say that about any character then? They have all done the same or similar shit Kenny AND Gabe has. By making these points against all characters you might as well be saying we should all be neutral toward them and not choose who we like and dont like.
You see, in your entire little rant, you failed to mention a few key reasons as to why Kenny doesn't receive the same type of hatred that Gabe does, not to mention some of your points are just plain wrong. But don't fret because I'm certainty willing to outline them for you.
First of all, you claim that Kenny's whinging is just as bad as Gabe's. That's not true. What you need to understand here is that, while Kenny does do a hell of a lot of complaining, he has actual legit reasons for doing it. His "whinging", as you put it, is due to a strong motivation in wanting to truly aid the group for the better in both season 1 and 2. Whether you personally agree with those suggestions doesn't matter, what's important is to look at why he's complaining and why he's suggesting such things. In Kenny's mindset from season 1, he felt that getting a boat for the group was their best bet to safety, that it's what would benefit the group above all else. But, with his hot headed and stubborn nature, he reacts badly when one chooses to argue with that plan. Why? Because to him, you disagreeing with the plan is like putting everyone at risk, including his own family and Clementine. The boat, in a lot of ways, was his instrument of hope, even more so after losing his family. He needed to hold onto the belief that it'd help, so doubting it does naturally cause him to react in anger.
The Larry situation, another example you try to use to demonstrate Kenny's supposed "whinging", is perfectly understandable in its actual context. Again, Kenny believed that by killing Larry, he was ensuring the safety of everyone in the meat locker and thus, the entire group. Should he have been more considerate? Of course, but his family were in danger so he reacted without completely thinking it through. In the long run, though, it's very likely that Larry had died and so, Kenny had done what was necessary for the survival of the group.
"He whines because you don't want to fight Carver head on." He does that because he believes that by giving in to someone like Carver's demands, you're giving up and showing weakness. You need to remember that Kenny was a fighter. He, even with the odds against him, always had to keep fighting for those that he loved. Carver was an enemy to that. He had to fight him and while, he is of course acting reckless, his motivation, the most important aspect to truly comprehend a character, is, as always, an act of decency, him trying to protect the group. "He whines because you take Luke's side." Luke, in Kenny's opinion, was a threat to the safety of the group. Kenny's stubborn. When he has a plan and believes that it'll benefit the group, he sticks to it no matter what. "He whines and blames you for Saritas death whether or not you cut her arm off." Fair enough. Kenny acted wrong. But he was grieving and didn't actually mean what he was saying. As shown when he actually apologises for his action in the next scene. But you failed to mention that, for some reason... "He whines if you disagree with Wellington. He whines if you side with Jane." Basically the same reason as to why he reacts in anger about the boat and Luke.
Now, as I've outlined pretty much all of Kenny's apparent "whining" and his reasons for doing so, let's take a look at Gabe. In his introduction, Gabe complains about his sleeping conditions. In a zombie apocalypse, when the world's gone to shit and it's basically nearly a miracle to even have a blanket at night, he's moaning about having to sleep in a secured, warm van because it doesn't suit his fancy. Is he thinking about anyone else when he does this? Nope, it's simply because Gabe's uncomfortable. And so, because he's uncomfortable, he annoyingly suggests to fuck safety and to stay in a place that's clearly occupied because he doesn't want to sleep in a "shitty, cramped van"... It's also referenced, all in the same episode, that Gabe has given Kate a hard time simply because she isn't his real mother. Oh, and he whinges that two grown adults smoke weed. That's all in his introduction. And none of those instances of complaining are because he want to help, but because he's a spoilt brat that just wants to get his own way. When he does actually try to help, though, he doesn't and runs away when his step-mother needed him, and then whinges because he couldn't help despite not doing anything to actually make up for the fact he couldn't help. Now, if you could find a single instance where Kenny does any whinging that's remotely similar to those of Gabe's, then congratulations, you've done the impossible. But so far, all of you've done is just selected certain scenes and taken them out of context to try and back up your wrong assumptions.
"he is responsible for Shawns death". No, he's not. Kenny went to save his son when Duck was under threat. I'm sure anyone that's a parent could understand that if your child was in danger, it's by pure instinct that you'd rush to save them and not the person you hardly know. Shawn's death was an unfortunate event and one that no one can be blamed for. "He ultimately gets Lee killed because he stole supplies from the stranger." First of all, don't generalise the scene as though Kenny was the only person who took the supplies, when it was in fact most of the group who engaged in the theft. It was a joint effort. Not entirely to blame on Kenny. And secondly, the only person who can be blamed for Lee's death is the one who actually directly caused it- The Stranger by kidnapping Clementine. No one forced him to kidnap a child and the only person that can be held responsibly for his actions is himself. Overall, though, some of the points you mentioned in that paragraph aren't all that wrong, but they are subjective and based on one's own opinion. And anyway, I've seen very few people claim that Gave fucks up EVERYTHING, so I don't really believe that point has much basis in your argument, really.
On to your final point. "You know if you don't kill Larry, Kenny is ready to let you die when Danny points a gun at you because he is scared." Yeah, I agree with that. Kenny did appear to be scared in that scene. But that doesn't make him a coward. People get scared all the time. And as the season progresses, he more than makes up for it, anyhow and he proves to be one of the bravest character in the game. "He was ready to let Lee die in ep 3 when he was caught under all those walkers." He wasn't being a coward in that scene. He was and even as a Kenny fan I can admit this, just being a dick. He was still angry about Lee not backing him up in the meat locker. He was being spiteful, not cowardly. " he also sells you out by making Lee look like an asshole for killing the girl on the streets. " Great, another scenario you've used out of context. Kenny mentioned that to enforce his argument to leave the motel, to tell everyone just how bad things were getting. He didn't mention it to make Lee look like an asshole as you suggest, he was bringing it up to convince Lilly and the others to up and leave. "In season 2 he breaks down whenever anything happens, and hides away in a tent yelling at everyone while throwing a tantrum." And that's just complete bullshit, no offence. Kenny rarely broke down when something bad happened. Sure, he'd be angry but he was always the one coming up with the ideas. He was always the one trying to actually get things done, while much of the Cabin Group went about like headless chickens, clueless as to what to do next. Oh, and what you described as a "tantrum", is a little something called grief. It tends to happen when you lose someone you cared about, like Kenny just did with Sarita. He picks himself quite quickly in the next scenes and goes on to help the Rebecca give birth, and doesn't break down. But you also failed to mention that.
To finish this up, the reason Gabe's so unpopular and Kenny isn't, is actually fairly simple. One's well written and developed. The other, that obviously being Gabe, isn't. You stirring up shit and calling us Kenny fans hypocrites because we don't like an annoying and poor written cliche like Gabe, is just looking for an argument.
I wasn't here for a day and you are talking about you won our discussion lol.
I am not all day in a forum so you should be patient to read any answers of someone.
Just easy. How old are you?
This discussion isn't about winning.
You just can't stand you can't change my mind.
There is something you lack: empathy.
It is fine your favorite character was being a prick sometimes, no matter what he did wrong.
You even tried to blame 11 year old Clementine determinantly for being mean and causing Kenny do bad things lol. Just to make things look less worde gor Kenny.
I still can't agree/understand some lost nutcase is beating a helpless grieving kid who just screamed for a little moment, but easily stopped screaming after he was left alone.
So basically you are telling we have to understand why the cannibals slaughtered Mark to eat him for survival, we agree or understand Mariana was killed over a cup of pudding for survival and raiding other communities for survival is ok or understandable.
For every bad shit person we can agree/ understand why someone did something bad for survival. Like we can understand Nate for robbing and killing innocent peoples around for yay..survival.
Very logical arguments Dan.
Kenny was a well-developed character and Gabe is easily a predictable poorly-written character. End of story. Come call me a hypocrite if you can, you don't scare me.
hypocrite.
I never said anything about winning a discussion, that was the other guy who said that but considering that i made the original comment on 5th May and you were online on the 5th, i assumed you had read or ignored it. Fair enough then. Next time i will give you time before making a conclusion. My age? Why? Older than you i am pretty sure of that.
As said above, i did not say that this discussion was about winning, the other person did.
Pardon? Just can't stand you can't? What does that mean? Lol. Well you can't change my mind either dear sir/madam.
Ahh the personal insult again. First of all you know absolutely nothing about my actual life outside these boards so how do you figure i lack empathy? How can you have the nerve to say something like that when you are basing it on one topic of discussion despite the fact i have said about 3 or 4 times now that I don't agree with what Kenny did? You seem to have got it in your head that i lack empathy just because i make a valid point as to the reasons behind his actions towards Arvo. So for the 3rd or 4th time i will copy and paste this until you finally understand what i said:
Agreeing with something someone does is completely different to "understanding the reasons" behind an action. For example, such as Lee may not agree with the group stealing supplies from the station wagon but he understood why the group did it. For survival.
So please understand that I do NOT agree with Kenny's violence towards Arvo BUT i completely understand HIS REASONS BEHIND HIS ACTIONS whether it is right or wrong. Do you get it now????
My favourite character is Lee actually but of course you wouldn't think that because you don't know anything about me. Kenny is obviously one of my favs and the reason I talk more about him is because people tend to discuss him more than they do about Lee.
The proof is in the game Bonbon. If you can't see this then you are beyond help. Whether you like it or not Clem is determinantely INDIRECTLY to blame for Kenny attacking Arvo. Do you know what indirectly means? Look it up.
If she had convinced him to come by the fire then it does not happen because she calms him down or because he is just sat by the fire or whatever. My comment about the player being "mean" had nothing to do with what he did, i said players who didn't convince him were mean because they didn't want Kenny and the baby to come and sit by the fire and keep warm. That is what I was saying. I guess i will have to go into full detail of every single thing so that you don't misread from now on.
Sigh it really isn't hard to see what i am saying Bonbon. I have repeated myself several times and will continue to do so until you at least grasp what i said. Arvo screamed, twice, that would have been enough noise to alert walkers and put the group in danger. No one else knew if he would continue screaming, plus, Mike wasn't going to leave Arvo alone before Kenny stepped in so what if he did scream again? My question i have been constantly asking you that you have ignored is, what would you do if you were there in real life? Are you saying you would do nothing and continue to let him scream which would put your life in danger?
Kenny did what he did to Arvo (THAT I DON'T LIKE HIM DOING) BUT it was to protect everyone because walkers would show up if he kept making a noise. How can you honestly not see his reasons behind his actions? It's unbelievable you won't look at both sides of the coin. So one dimensional it really is. Here is the proof:
There is your proof that he wanted what was best for the group. It wasn't the best thing to do but took the initiative to stop the noise quickly. That is why i understand the reason behind what he did, even though i don't agree with the abuse. Finally as i feel the need to put him in a good light, i'll show you proof that he shows remorse/regret for knocking Arvo out:
And then his face here says it all:
What are the differences of those characters Bonbon? Think about it for a moment...
Technically you can understand their reasons, however, the St John's and TNF raiding communities were all done for their own selfish needs. They were all selfishly looking out for themselves with no consideration for anyone else. Kenny on the other hand WAS looking out for the people he was with and not just himself. He had consideration for others unlike the St John's and TNF and that is what makes him a much better person than any of them and even you should admit that.
Badger on the other hand was just a psychopathic asshole who had no remorse and enjoyed shooting Mariana for no reason whatsoever. Even just before he died he was arrogant as hell and didn't care. Comparing these situations to Kenny is ridiculous because those characters were "genuine" antagonists. So in answer to your question, no you don't have to understand the St John's reasons or TNF/Badger because their reasons were motivated by greed and selfish beliefs for their own selves rather than for the good of other people like Kenny did and finally no i do not agree with what they did and if you think i do then you have no respect for me at all.
Once again, what Nate did was in looking out for himself and took no one else's lives/feelings into consideration which also makes him similar to Badger in a lot ways. You don't have to understand his reasons because it's already there in plain sight. The same as i said before, greed and selfishness.
Lol you said this before i even posted haha! I think my points are very logical actually Bonbon. At least i am able to answer your questions or argue your points, unlike you seem to be able to do as i am still waiting for you answer mine.
PRAISE OUR LORD
You called me hypocrite before at the very beginning, so who is hypocrite again?
You think it is just you can go on a personal tour when someone think different, but feeling butthurt when someone is doing the same with you.
And wow, you are telling it was Arvo's fault it even his intention to get Luke killed? The same bull shit when you are telling it was Clem's or Bonnie's fault to get Luke killed because they broke the ice with their weights. So it would be proper to beat Clem and Bonnie almost to death.
All I see are valid points which you refuse to counter.
Whether it be intentional or not, Arvo caused the panic on the ice, probably causing everyone to run (including Luke, but we didn't see that).
You can't blame either Clem nor Bonnie because their clear intention was to HELP/save Luke's life. No question it was stupid. Kenny even yelled Clementine should stop, not because it was a malicious intent, but because it was stupid to try. Kenny blamed neither of them or says "That's not on you." towards Clementine if she just covered Luke with her gun. He blamed Arvo for causing the panic. Whether it was Arvo's or Kenny's fault is debatable, if Kenny had eased up, maybe Arvo hadn't run. But in my playthrough I prevented most abuse and he still ran. So I guess Arvo gave a fuck and waited for the proper moment to get away coupled with fear of walkers.
I for one covered Luke and Bonnie went for him. And who does Bonnie blame? Clementine. And what exactly did she have to do with Luke's death in that moment other than not trying to get to him and putting more weight on the ice? Nothing. That's a + for humanity since people can get emotional as well. Not everything is logic.
Calling you a hypocrite was justified because you were defending Arvo for his anger and grief over losing his sister but you were tearing Kenny apart for his anger what also highly contributed to his grief he has suffered previously such as when he lost Sarita recently. That is why i called you a hypocrite.
Lol you are the one who is acting butthurt with my fair and reasonable points when discussing Kenny's actions and not willing to even listen to what i say because you only view the scene in one dimension which is what i have been saying all along.
If you had any insight you would consider what i have said and why i have explained and shown my evidence of Kenny's reasons for what he did but instead you avoid the discussion and focus on one aspect of the argument as well as insult me further lol, so it seems pointless.
Who was it that ran across the ice? Arvo did. He is the reason the ice started breaking up so how is that bullshit when it's a fact that happened in the game? Were you even playing the same game? You are blinded so much that you want to push the blame onto someone else for his actions on the ice. And no I don't blame Bonnie or Clem for trying to save Luke, why would i? You need to replay that scene and see that Arvo was solely to blame. Sorry but its true. The ice would not have cracked otherwise. The whole scene was stupid anyway in my opinion.
The whole group shouldn't have walked across. They should have found another way round.
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Hence why i said "personal". The fact you don't know anything about me in real life and saying "i have something wrong with me" gives me every right to be offended. I hadn't said anything horrible to you UNTIL you said that to me and it was uncalled for just because you didn't like my views on Kenny.
Well i have said my piece. You still fail to answer my question or reply with constructive posts to what i have said so what more can i do when you continue to ignore?
I think I'm going to tell a mod about this.
Huh, really? I did a second run after S1 finished, but I remember Clem being upset Ben didn't come back(for whatever reason) but not Kenny riling up the group because of what happened. I only let Ben drop that one time though, I didn't when I bought the games on next Gen.
Only Clementine really cares, but she didn't know until Kenny said so.
Than I am a hypocrite.
Well her and to a lesser extent Vernon, but whatever.
Btw, Kenny's a dick.
Well damn, Completely forgot how she knew. Still though, that's not as bad as someone spitefully selling you out, she asks what he meant by "you did what you had to". That's just some slimy stuff, on Gabes part.
Can it not be that people just have different opinions? I like Ben which doesn't make it "Controversial!!!" Nor does it mean your a "hypocrite" if you hate Ben and Like Sarah or Gabe.
Kenny and Gabe are not similar at all
Say whatever the fuck you want, but first chance I get to pop/drop Gabe's ass I'm taking it.
Life's hard, but it's especially harder when you're stupid. Why, and I mean, why the HELL would he rat Javi out and cause a rift in the group in the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE when people are supposed to have each other's backs? Because of Gabe aka, the lil shithead, the group was weakened. Also, imagine if s1 ep1 Clem would've freaked and denied when Lee, at Hershel's farm, said he was her neighbour. What would've happened? If I were Hershel I wouldn't offer shelter to liars (rightfully so) and Lee & Clem would've died. Even at that age she was smarter than lil shithead Gabe.
I get that not all kids can be Clementime, but if tiny s1 Clem knew what to do then... I don't know what to tell ya.
Who even throws a FAMILY MEMBER under the bus anyway?
I could be wrong but don't people hate Gabe because he is a hotheaded teen who makes bad choices? But clem is also sometimes a hotheaded teen who has made even more bad choices but people still like clem. This just doesn't add up
Kenny = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
Gabe = impulsive, whiny, quick to anger and prone to mood swings
When you break them down to their core, they are pretty similar. I realized the only reason most can not see this aside from being biased in this comparison is that Kenny has had the chance to redeem himself but Gabe hasn't, but the season isn't over yet and that can change.
That's what I was getting at. Although I can see why Clem is still more of an appealing character because her stepping out of line is rare. However, Kenny has made the same amount of mistakes if not more than Gabe. But because he is Kenny he gets a free pass.
Gabe is nothing like kenny kenny is a man and gabe is a bitch.
He wants to be Kenny so bad
He can't be cus kenny hate kids like him he always did cus he knew what kined of shitbirds they are.
That's the point. He made a stupid decision because he was feeling heart broken and powerless after losing his sister. His entire arc is about wanting to make a difference but nobody taking the time to explain things to him (unless you the player choose to through Javi). In fact if you do so he calms down significantly. He is going through a similar situation to Clem in season two where nobody listens to her or trusts her except he is vocal about it.
No, Gabe doesn't. He is judging Javier's choice no matter what.
Nothing you said is true or wrong. And actually nothing I said is true or wrong lol.
All what we did is assuming this and that.
Like I see most of your posts are about assuming things anyway.
Doesn't matter what is truth, in Telltale games it is about personal experiences and choices.
I have seen lots of peoples did say Kenny is an asshole, Kenny is nice, Gabe is a prick, Gabe is nice.
My version of Kenny is a man with a good heart but acting like a prick when things doesn't go his way and he easily get angered and agressive and beating/killing peoples. Some people hate this behavior, others think it is cool and badass.
I guess you chose to watch Carver to die..just an example.
And wether it is Arvo's fault or not, he wasn't the one who broke the ice from Luke. This was a bad accident.
But finally we can assume it was Jane's fault since she started this mess from the very beginning.
In fact everyone is right or wrong about their opinions lol.
Just calm down Dan.
My Kenny didn't judge my choice of siding with him. Gabe told me to shoot Conrad and he blames me for that even if he is the one who told me to.
Who cares.
I have seen many teens this rude to their parents over much less stuff than this.
Sometimes I wanna 'kill' my teenage little sister.
What do you mean who cares? Gabe was acting like a whiny bitch to Javier for saving his stupid life and he still acts like a liability after 4 years of apocalypse. Clementine and Mariana are WAY smarter than this piece of shit.
From what I remember, Kenny wasn't protective of any other characters but Clementine and Sarita, and then AJ. As for Gabe's actions, he made a rash decision that, in the end, was for safety in his perspective.
Whilst I agree with some of your points, you have to remember than Kenny isn't just 'whining', he's, for the most part (Episode 3 onwards), grieving for his lost ones (Duck, Katjaa, Sarita, even Lee). Whilst many other people have lost loved ones as well and have gone past the grieving stage, Kenny never really had the chance to, as he was constantly faced with peril that would endanger his loved ones and he to, was willing to give up his life if it meant the safety of those he cared for. Does Kenny whine? Yes, like all characters, but he mostly grieves and goes through a depressive state of mind. If you can't understand and forgive Gabe for his 'whining', then I'm sure you can do the same for Kenny.
Your second paragraph, I greatly agree on, mostly during the parts where Kenny is willing to let Lee die if you don't agree with his actions or perspective at certain points and he has definitely endangered many other characters with his actions, however, your example for him 'fucking up' in Season 2 is easily justified by his emotional state. He's a wreck, he was beaten to a pulp and either saw his loved one with a bite mark with Clementine having not done anything about it (from his perspective) otherwise seeing Clementine chop off his loved one's arm, causing her to die in the middle of the walker horde, so it's a rather justified response. Remember, Kenny is only human with human emotions, there are times where humans lose control of their pragmatic/logical reactions and give in to their emotional/irrational ones.
Again, you do make some valid points about Kenny being a bit of a coward at some points in time, but don't disregard the moments where he's one of the bravest of them all - Kenny was the only person to go back and help Lee regardless of how he felt about him, he was the only one to actually show skepticism towards the St. John's before anyone even considered that they might be bad people, he did what was best for the group by taking the rations that were left alone in the open (possibly saving the group's lives, he can also help Lee with Danny (although at a cost), he's the only one who's really willing to challenge Lilly's mindset on staying at the motel, he was willing to sacrifice himself to save Christa (Whom he assumed was pregnant) and to give Ben a merciful death (which I honestly think was a shoddy send off for S1 Kenny, they could've just had him shoot Ben then rejoin the group without locking the gate, then have the Christa and radio scene happen after), he was the only one willing to challenge Carver's group (at a cost, or multiple), he was the only one that stood up for Clementine when Carver was trying to find who stole the radio and he managed to pull himself together to ensure that Rebecca gave birth successfully. How many moments of heroism or confidence has Gabe had to at least contrast his mistakes and cowardice again?