To be fair in those cases, Ben and Michelle did something that legitimately got someone killed.
In Ben's case, Lee was kinda in a dangerous situation where walkers were on their tail, Kenny wanted to take advantage of the situation so Ben would end up dead, and Ben himself told Lee to just let him go and just make sure everyone else got to safety. People have a high enough connection and opinion of Lee to think that he wouldn't drop Ben or at least would be justified in doing so because of who they are.
Now, with Michelle, I'd argue its worse than with Ben because, while we know that Michelle was a thief, she obviously wasn't a killer until Omid startled her, thus Christa shooting her when she did was significant not only because Michelle killed Omid by accident but Christa shooting her when she was clearly shook up by it to the point of surrendering is both kind of a low blow and also so unexpected of her.
Yh Clem has been up to no good, but still, it was either between clem and his nephew or Conrad, I just (love) chose my clem and gabe over the goof, simple. Popped that fool, no regrets about it, period.
I agree. People don't think outside of the box. Also you never know what could possibly happen when Conrad lives, maybe you can use him or become a friend or maybe Conrad has more friends or stuff. Possibilities are endless. Shooting someone cold blood because you have to appeal to someone is kinda foolish and weak option. I think TellTale tried to say that to their players that "don't shoot Conrad, it's a trap!" but they failed a bit in that sense. To me it was an obvious trap for sure.
Michelle was definitely a dark moment in the series, but I think the scenario doesn't really stick with people because of how it played out. I don't think she's a murderer, she was clearly startled when Omid entered. But she really came off as a deplorable person, not just robbing a child but actively taunting her while she does so, and then for Christa to come in and find the father of her unborn child laying dead, some stranger who tried to rob them being the reason, it makes feeling sympathy a bit harder in that situation for the group we're with.
To be fair in those cases, Ben and Michelle did something that legitimately got someone killed.
In Ben's case, Lee was kinda in a dangero… moreus situation where walkers were on their tail, Kenny wanted to take advantage of the situation so Ben would end up dead, and Ben himself told Lee to just let him go and just make sure everyone else got to safety. People have a high enough connection and opinion of Lee to think that he wouldn't drop Ben or at least would be justified in doing so because of who they are.
Now, with Michelle, I'd argue its worse than with Ben because, while we know that Michelle was a thief, she obviously wasn't a killer until Omid startled her, thus Christa shooting her when she did was significant not only because Michelle killed Omid by accident but Christa shooting her when she was clearly shook up by it to the point of surrendering is both kind of a low blow and also so unexpected of her.
Michelle was definitely a dark moment in the series, but I think the scenario doesn't really stick with people because of how it played out.… more I don't think she's a murderer, she was clearly startled when Omid entered. But she really came off as a deplorable person, not just robbing a child but actively taunting her while she does so, and then for Christa to come in and find the father of her unborn child laying dead, some stranger who tried to rob them being the reason, it makes feeling sympathy a bit harder in that situation for the group we're with.
Shooting someone cold blood because you have to appeal to someone is kinda foolish and weak option.
Shooting someone who has a member of your family at gunpoint while forcing you to agree to his plans is a good enough reason to me.
I think TellTale tried to say that to their players that "don't shoot Conrad, it's a trap!" but they failed a bit in that sense. To me it was an obvious trap for sure.
Telltale knew most people would side with Clem anyway, which is why I think they gave us such a drastic option. They were definitely testing the player's loyalty to Clem there, thinking most people wouldn't just shoot someone like that, and they failed. But the reason why I think so many people chose that option was because Conrad wasn't only threatening Clem, he was threatening Gabe too. If he wouldn't have pointed a gun at him, maybe so many people wouldn't have killed him. But he lost all sympathy from many players when he did that because he crossed a line.
I agree. People don't think outside of the box. Also you never know what could possibly happen when Conrad lives, maybe you can use him or b… moreecome a friend or maybe Conrad has more friends or stuff. Possibilities are endless. Shooting someone cold blood because you have to appeal to someone is kinda foolish and weak option. I think TellTale tried to say that to their players that "don't shoot Conrad, it's a trap!" but they failed a bit in that sense. To me it was an obvious trap for sure.
The fact Conrad is determinant pretty much confirm his importance is close to none. Knowing the fate of determinant characters, we know he will have a pretty stupid death especially since his portrayal has been about him becoming more and more reckless in his actions.
If I came into a situation and found my partner dead and the person who did it was standing there...heat of the moment and raw emotional stress...the outcome would have been the same. And I suspect it would be the same for a lot of people.
To be fair in those cases, Ben and Michelle did something that legitimately got someone killed.
In Ben's case, Lee was kinda in a dangero… moreus situation where walkers were on their tail, Kenny wanted to take advantage of the situation so Ben would end up dead, and Ben himself told Lee to just let him go and just make sure everyone else got to safety. People have a high enough connection and opinion of Lee to think that he wouldn't drop Ben or at least would be justified in doing so because of who they are.
Now, with Michelle, I'd argue its worse than with Ben because, while we know that Michelle was a thief, she obviously wasn't a killer until Omid startled her, thus Christa shooting her when she did was significant not only because Michelle killed Omid by accident but Christa shooting her when she was clearly shook up by it to the point of surrendering is both kind of a low blow and also so unexpected of her.
To be fair though, Conrad could become a potential threat in the future as well, intentionally or not. For me, I just think that how the situation could be resolved without any pointless bloodshed. So I didn't kill him either.
I agree. People don't think outside of the box. Also you never know what could possibly happen when Conrad lives, maybe you can use him or b… moreecome a friend or maybe Conrad has more friends or stuff. Possibilities are endless. Shooting someone cold blood because you have to appeal to someone is kinda foolish and weak option. I think TellTale tried to say that to their players that "don't shoot Conrad, it's a trap!" but they failed a bit in that sense. To me it was an obvious trap for sure.
Why Conrad wanted to work with them, I have no idea.
I think it's less about working with them, and more about using them. Conrad's thinking that if they bring Clementine to them, they'll give them what they want-- Eleanor, medical help for Kate, etc.
They can use Clementine as a bargaining chip to get what they need from the New Frontier first, then proceed to stab them in the back afterwards.
It had been established by that point that the New Frontier are an organized group with laws and some kind of justice system, official proce… moredures of what to do with people who harm them, and also a system of "go ahead" to do something that isn't within the rules; all of this suggested that they are reasonable. The existence of dipshits like Badger doesn't negate the fact that the actual group was alright.
Why Conrad wanted to work with them, I have no idea.
betraying clementine at the end of episode 2 is RIGHT thing to do
Because you said that I have a feeling Telltale will look at this thread and make huge consequences for it. I hope they don't though. But anyways I felt like shooting Conrad wasn't right. The guy had suffered enough. Yeah sure he threatened Clementine and pointed a gun at Gabe's head but something just didn't feel right. I mean I'm not overprotective of Clem. And I do care about Gabe. But it turns out that David is the leader so it might change.
i cant believe how many people shoot conrad. javier just met clementine
And Javier just met Conrad after he met Clementine.
besides, its clementines fault she lied to everyone.
Clem had her reasons to keep the fact she was a part of the new frontier. Not everyone would of taken it well and overall believe her like Javier did. There are possible chances are people would of thought that she still is a part of the group and/or would've killed her.
Also a lot of people take trust into account when coming to their choices. So in this case why people didn't betray Clementine is because she trusts you enough to tell you that she was apart of a group and not to shoot you, even if you shot a man in front of it as well as save your life twice. Meanwhile Conrad had Gabe at gun point and wanted to shoot if he didn't get his own way. I can understand he is unstable after his wife's death but I wouldn't trust anyone who put my family at gun point either.
I can see why people did betray her and if you think that's a better choice good for you. You had reasons. But so do people who didn't betray Clem too.
It seems to me like you've never played the previous two TWD's before. Maybe you have, but I'm just judging by your post. I and many others give absolutely 0 fucks about any of the characters other than Clem at this point. Sure, Javier is sorta likable I GUESS, but none of the other characters are, especially GABE or CONRAD, tha fucker. I don't care what happens to them in later episodes. The only character that I would even give half a shit about if they died is Eleanor, and I have a feeling that she'll be another Carley. 99% of players that are loyal to the series will do whatever they can do to benefit Clem over anyone else, and I'm one of them. If I were playing this game as if I was Javier, or if I'd never played S1 or 2, or if Clem wasn't in it, It'd be a whole lot different but since Clem's in the picture, things change. I have been a TellTale fan since the first TWD game, and I really love their games, but they royally fucked this game up big time. They knew that we all thought that we'd be playing as Clem and did nothing to tell us otherwise. And unless they are all completely and utterly stupid they knew that we would do whatever is best for Clementine in the long run despite the new characters they added. They worked their asses off S1 and 2 to build up Clem as this super lovable character and they did a great job of it too. Then they just throw it all out the window with S3. Fucking shame on you, TellTale.
I mean yeah, it kinda is. If was anybody else, I would have gone along with Conrad, it really fucking sucks you had to shoot him. But he put himself in that situation, you could make the argument that Conrad was just trying to protect the group, but he should have listened to the Clem's whole story. Oh well, he's in hell with Francine now. Hopefully Badger will join them soon.
I agree. I had Javier shoot Conrad, yet I didn't do it for Clementine, but for Gabe. I don't like Gabriel, but he's part of Javier's family.… more Telltale has failed so far to make Javier's catalyst function between the player and Clementine work well because the two are just too friendly for it to be believable.
He can call her a friend several times. Ok... why, exactly? They met a few days ago under less than friendly circumstances, yet they seem to be best buddies at the end of Episode 2. Javier often just feels like a means to help players bond with Clem more directly. But it makes no sense at all in the story of the game for him to treat Clementine as players of the previous Seasons would.
Shooting him was absolutely glorious, nearly an entire episode of bitching and complaining stopped with a an accurate bullet to the face. Go… moreodbye conrad.
Even looking at this choice with a level not hating the episode head id still shoot him.
* Hes basically crazy, he could betray javier in the future or go on a shooting spree at richmond against the new frontier
2.. No reason his plan would work, new frontier haven't been that useful yet.
* Held family member hostage and was threatening a team member who has been way more useful so far and less whiny
* Betrayal is a worse crime than murder for me at this point
Had Conrad not pulled a gun out on Gabe then I may have considered where he was coming from. But the fact is Conrad held a gun to a child's … morehead, and I don't think he's justified even with Gabe pulling one out on him earlier. Gabe pulled a gun out because he was scared for his uncle's safety and had just lost his sister, and possibly lose his step-mother. Gabe is a kid who will make a lot of mistakes and act irrationally. I understand that Conrad is grieving too, but he's a man, an older man. You threaten a child's life in order to use another child as a bargaining chip even though he knows what Javier & Gabe just went through? That disgusted me. So no, I've gotta say that betraying Clementine is the wrong decision - not because it's our favorite girl, but because Conrad crossed the line.
I mean yeah, it kinda is. If was anybody else, I would have gone along with Conrad, it really fucking sucks you had to shoot him. But he put… more himself in that situation, you could make the argument that Conrad was just trying to protect the group, but he should have listened to the Clem's whole story. Oh well, he's in hell with Francine now. Hopefully Badger will join them soon.
I mean yeah, it kinda is. If was anybody else, I would have gone along with Conrad, it really fucking sucks you had to shoot him. But he put… more himself in that situation, you could make the argument that Conrad was just trying to protect the group, but he should have listened to the Clem's whole story. Oh well, he's in hell with Francine now. Hopefully Badger will join them soon.
I believe that she might've had a similar connection to her own dad that the hat reminded her of, given she seems more willing to take it if you tell her that. Plus, a hat can be useful on sunny days or if someone tries to grab you by the hair, so there is practical value.
Though hilariously enough, she does relent on demanding it if you keep refusing or just don't say anything, so maybe it was just a spur of the moment thing.
Javier didn't and doesn't know any of that.
Just like Lee/Sarita didn't know they would die irregardless of whether you cut their ar… morems to save them. Or the Stranger coming after you either way, or Arvo thinking you stole him even when you didn't. That's scripted events for you.
Oh, for sure! Some players aim for morality, others for group pragmatism, others for selective pragmatism, and others are just trying to keep the playable character alive at all costs.
Glad we understand each other.
The fuck?BETRAYING CLEMENTINE AT THE END OF EPISODE 2 IS RIGHT THING TO DO!?
First thing is,just like Conrad said in Episode 3,"The guy back in the tunnel,it wasn't me".So he admits that he shouldn't do it(using Clementine as bargaining chip).
So what the fuck is betraying Clementine is right thing to do?.Gabe the one who's so stupid and stubborn,told Tripp about it(shoot Conrad at the tunnel).
I dont understand with him(Gabe).After we save his asses(man,just like David says to Javi at the jail),this is how he treat Javi??
I know people gonna says:
"Hey!If you dont want Gabe tell Tripp about it(shoot Conrad at the tunnel),just kill Conrad in Episode 3.So Gabe will not tell Tripp about it cuz he didn't know any shit!"
But still...I dont want to betray Clem.Fuck Tripp,Eleanor,Gabe and Kate!Let 'em die.I dont care(but I care about Ava).Just let Javi and Clem go find Alvin Junior.
I think that's just some people's default insult for dead people they don't like, really. Francine was really just a Victim of Circumstance, when you get down to it.
Comments
To be fair in those cases, Ben and Michelle did something that legitimately got someone killed.
In Ben's case, Lee was kinda in a dangerous situation where walkers were on their tail, Kenny wanted to take advantage of the situation so Ben would end up dead, and Ben himself told Lee to just let him go and just make sure everyone else got to safety. People have a high enough connection and opinion of Lee to think that he wouldn't drop Ben or at least would be justified in doing so because of who they are.
Now, with Michelle, I'd argue its worse than with Ben because, while we know that Michelle was a thief, she obviously wasn't a killer until Omid startled her, thus Christa shooting her when she did was significant not only because Michelle killed Omid by accident but Christa shooting her when she was clearly shook up by it to the point of surrendering is both kind of a low blow and also so unexpected of her.
The innocent guy who sold her bullets that don't fire which could've killed her?
I wanted to kill Conrad ever since he got the grudge so it wasn't hard.
Killing Omid was murder, killing Michelle was justice.
A bit of a Knight Templar, I see?
Yh Clem has been up to no good, but still, it was either between clem and his nephew or Conrad, I just (love) chose my clem and gabe over the goof, simple. Popped that fool, no regrets about it, period.
It's clementine duh.
I agree.
I agree. People don't think outside of the box. Also you never know what could possibly happen when Conrad lives, maybe you can use him or become a friend or maybe Conrad has more friends or stuff. Possibilities are endless. Shooting someone cold blood because you have to appeal to someone is kinda foolish and weak option. I think TellTale tried to say that to their players that "don't shoot Conrad, it's a trap!" but they failed a bit in that sense. To me it was an obvious trap for sure.
Michelle was definitely a dark moment in the series, but I think the scenario doesn't really stick with people because of how it played out. I don't think she's a murderer, she was clearly startled when Omid entered. But she really came off as a deplorable person, not just robbing a child but actively taunting her while she does so, and then for Christa to come in and find the father of her unborn child laying dead, some stranger who tried to rob them being the reason, it makes feeling sympathy a bit harder in that situation for the group we're with.
I never understood why she was suddenly obsessed with Clementine's hat. Shouldn't it be just another junk?
Shooting someone who has a member of your family at gunpoint while forcing you to agree to his plans is a good enough reason to me.
Telltale knew most people would side with Clem anyway, which is why I think they gave us such a drastic option. They were definitely testing the player's loyalty to Clem there, thinking most people wouldn't just shoot someone like that, and they failed. But the reason why I think so many people chose that option was because Conrad wasn't only threatening Clem, he was threatening Gabe too. If he wouldn't have pointed a gun at him, maybe so many people wouldn't have killed him. But he lost all sympathy from many players when he did that because he crossed a line.
The fact Conrad is determinant pretty much confirm his importance is close to none. Knowing the fate of determinant characters, we know he will have a pretty stupid death especially since his portrayal has been about him becoming more and more reckless in his actions.
If I came into a situation and found my partner dead and the person who did it was standing there...heat of the moment and raw emotional stress...the outcome would have been the same. And I suspect it would be the same for a lot of people.
Pure pettiness lol
To be fair though, Conrad could become a potential threat in the future as well, intentionally or not. For me, I just think that how the situation could be resolved without any pointless bloodshed. So I didn't kill him either.
I was thinking about it but then he put a gun on Gabes head. That sealed his fate, screw him
Terribly biased.
Michelle might have had an emotional connection to the team depicted on the cap due to her pre-apocalyptic life.
I think it's less about working with them, and more about using them. Conrad's thinking that if they bring Clementine to them, they'll give them what they want-- Eleanor, medical help for Kate, etc.
They can use Clementine as a bargaining chip to get what they need from the New Frontier first, then proceed to stab them in the back afterwards.
Because you said that I have a feeling Telltale will look at this thread and make huge consequences for it. I hope they don't though. But anyways I felt like shooting Conrad wasn't right. The guy had suffered enough. Yeah sure he threatened Clementine and pointed a gun at Gabe's head but something just didn't feel right. I mean I'm not overprotective of Clem. And I do care about Gabe. But it turns out that David is the leader so it might change.
How?
Michelle was criminal scum and killed Omid. Christa neutralized her and cleaned the world from one more criminal being.
And Javier just met Conrad after he met Clementine.
Clem had her reasons to keep the fact she was a part of the new frontier. Not everyone would of taken it well and overall believe her like Javier did. There are possible chances are people would of thought that she still is a part of the group and/or would've killed her.
Also a lot of people take trust into account when coming to their choices. So in this case why people didn't betray Clementine is because she trusts you enough to tell you that she was apart of a group and not to shoot you, even if you shot a man in front of it as well as save your life twice. Meanwhile Conrad had Gabe at gun point and wanted to shoot if he didn't get his own way. I can understand he is unstable after his wife's death but I wouldn't trust anyone who put my family at gun point either.
I can see why people did betray her and if you think that's a better choice good for you. You had reasons. But so do people who didn't betray Clem too.
It seems to me like you've never played the previous two TWD's before. Maybe you have, but I'm just judging by your post. I and many others give absolutely 0 fucks about any of the characters other than Clem at this point. Sure, Javier is sorta likable I GUESS, but none of the other characters are, especially GABE or CONRAD, tha fucker. I don't care what happens to them in later episodes. The only character that I would even give half a shit about if they died is Eleanor, and I have a feeling that she'll be another Carley. 99% of players that are loyal to the series will do whatever they can do to benefit Clem over anyone else, and I'm one of them. If I were playing this game as if I was Javier, or if I'd never played S1 or 2, or if Clem wasn't in it, It'd be a whole lot different but since Clem's in the picture, things change. I have been a TellTale fan since the first TWD game, and I really love their games, but they royally fucked this game up big time. They knew that we all thought that we'd be playing as Clem and did nothing to tell us otherwise. And unless they are all completely and utterly stupid they knew that we would do whatever is best for Clementine in the long run despite the new characters they added. They worked their asses off S1 and 2 to build up Clem as this super lovable character and they did a great job of it too. Then they just throw it all out the window with S3. Fucking shame on you, TellTale.
Yes, I also thought of Clem, in this scene.
I mean yeah, it kinda is. If was anybody else, I would have gone along with Conrad, it really fucking sucks you had to shoot him. But he put himself in that situation, you could make the argument that Conrad was just trying to protect the group, but he should have listened to the Clem's whole story. Oh well, he's in hell with Francine now. Hopefully Badger will join them soon.
It was the same for Luke
agreed
agreed
XD
i fully agree
Well, 90% of players think otherwise.
That's ridiculous. Spoilers should NEVER be in topic titles.
It's a little too late for a reply, don't you think?
Not sure why Francine would be there given what we see of her.
I believe that she might've had a similar connection to her own dad that the hat reminded her of, given she seems more willing to take it if you tell her that. Plus, a hat can be useful on sunny days or if someone tries to grab you by the hair, so there is practical value.
Though hilariously enough, she does relent on demanding it if you keep refusing or just don't say anything, so maybe it was just a spur of the moment thing.
Regardless.
Oh yeah...
Why's Francine in hell?
The fuck?BETRAYING CLEMENTINE AT THE END OF EPISODE 2 IS RIGHT THING TO DO!?
First thing is,just like Conrad said in Episode 3,"The guy back in the tunnel,it wasn't me".So he admits that he shouldn't do it(using Clementine as bargaining chip).
So what the fuck is betraying Clementine is right thing to do?.Gabe the one who's so stupid and stubborn,told Tripp about it(shoot Conrad at the tunnel).
I dont understand with him(Gabe).After we save his asses(man,just like David says to Javi at the jail),this is how he treat Javi??
I know people gonna says:
"Hey!If you dont want Gabe tell Tripp about it(shoot Conrad at the tunnel),just kill Conrad in Episode 3.So Gabe will not tell Tripp about it cuz he didn't know any shit!"
But still...I dont want to betray Clem.Fuck Tripp,Eleanor,Gabe and Kate!Let 'em die.I dont care(but I care about Ava).Just let Javi and Clem go find Alvin Junior.
I think that's just some people's default insult for dead people they don't like, really. Francine was really just a Victim of Circumstance, when you get down to it.