Calling people shit birds, bitches and pieces of shit just because they make mistakes... thank god the walking dead isn't real. People are way too intolerant and violent.
Carver was eventually gonna kill Reggie regardless of the reason why. It just so happened that the gardening incident with Sarah gave him an excuse to do it sooner than later and use him as an example to make her fall in line.
Also, do you know why she "risked" their lives? There really wasn't anything stopping them from not kicking the front door open or getting through the skylight.
Uhh... she risked Jane, Luke, and clementines life, she got Reggie killed too... Reggie was the best character... Also a few times with carver she screwed up... Also she was really annoying
Because people make mistakes and have flaws, dude. That's life.
Besides, even characters who don't get labeled screw things up from time to time and otherwise cause more problems than they solve, namely Kenny, Luke, and Jane. Not everyone can be competent, brave, smart, balanced, agile, or whatever other word you want to describe the other characters all the time and it's not like any of these "screwups," "invalids," "liabilities," or whatever fantastically racist slur you wanna give them can't be or rather wasn't any those things some of the time.
People need to get that through their skull and grow up. If you don't like it, go somewhere else because this series is not(or rather never was) for you after all.
Carver was eventually gonna kill Reggie regardless of the reason why. It just so happened that the gardening incident with Sarah gave him an… more excuse to do it sooner than later and use him as an example to make her fall in line.
Also, do you know why she "risked" their lives? There really wasn't anything stopping them from not kicking the front door open or getting through the skylight.
I think a lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. He's not necessarily hating or criticising the characters, per say, but Telltale's constant usage of the same formula in each season thus far. He even admits that he likes Ben. What was being pointed out was that each of these characters seemed to fill the same role. They're the liabilities, the people who make mistakes despite often times having good intentions and never offering much else outside of those mistakes. The major issue with that comes from the fact these characters, more times than most, don't have anything to balance out their fuck ups, so it tends to give the sense that they're just plot devices to cause problems and make the more capable survivors look badass. Sure, they might have a likeable personality and an upsetting backstory (Or in Sarah's case, an apparent mental illness, or in Gabe's case, none of those), but it still doesn't move their role away from just being liabilities. And the worst thing? They never develop. Besides maybe Ben, all of these characters exited the story like they entered it.
As demonstrated by Ben, though, there's nothing too wrong with that setup, but after 3 seasons of it, it does get a little stale. As someone said earlier in this thread, I think it'd be a better idea for Telltale to balance out their characters' strengths and weakness, where nearly everyone, whether they're super capable in another field, could and can make blunders. They can easily have someone who's an excellent, let's say, hand-to-hand fighter, but on the other hand, they could be completely clueless in how to, I don't know, cook... Dumb example, I know, but you probably get the idea. Instead of just having one character being completely clueless about most things, give them other qualities that can make up for where they fail. It'd make things more fresh and probably decrease the amount of people that seem to dislike these types.
I think a lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. He's not necessarily hating or criticising the characters, per say, but Telltale'… mores constant usage of the same formula in each season thus far. He even admits that he likes Ben. What was being pointed out was that each of these characters seemed to fill the same role. They're the liabilities, the people who make mistakes despite often times having good intentions and never offering much else outside of those mistakes. The major issue with that comes from the fact these characters, more times than most, don't have anything to balance out their fuck ups, so it tends to give the sense that they're just plot devices to cause problems and make the more capable survivors look badass. Sure, they might have a likeable personality and an upsetting backstory (Or in Sarah's case, an apparent mental illness, or in Gabe's case, none of those), but it still doesn't move their role away from just bei… [view original content]
Carver was eventually gonna kill Reggie regardless of the reason why. It just so happened that the gardening incident with Sarah gave him an… more excuse to do it sooner than later and use him as an example to make her fall in line.
Also, do you know why she "risked" their lives? There really wasn't anything stopping them from not kicking the front door open or getting through the skylight.
Prior to S3, these 'screw-up' characters added realism to the rag tag group of people - Ben being the most realistic as the outbreak was new. There would be plenty of less capable people who lived simply because they ran when others didn't. This is portrayed in S2 somewhat less successfully as the cast was simply too large to allow for enough character development for a lot of them to shine. This is why Sarah is frequently displayed as S2's 'screw-up' character, as they spent a lot more time with her than they did Nick.
S3 starts making us question these characters and how they are added to the group dynamic because a great deal more time has passed due to the time-skip. They can still include these characters, however if they have been a part of any group for any amount of time in order to portray it well - they need better written situations. One of the main mistakes early on was allowing the children to wander an unexplored area by themselves. Paring them each with one adult would've easily resolved that, added more interaction, and would've been a good early decision to give players so that they could either get to relate to Gabe or Mariana.
S4 can still have these characters as long as they're handled in a reasonable fashion. If they are members of the group, someone has to be paired with them, and they have to have a reason for being in harm's way - ex. the group has to relocate thus everyone has to move, or perhaps the 'screw-up' is a botanist needed to identify edible plants while scavenging. They could even add a less capable doctor needed to enter an abandoned clinic or hospital with the group to collect medicine - which would prevent the group members from any instinct to simply abandon them to their fate as they'd be vital members otherwise in spite of their inabilities in dire situations.
I think a lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. He's not necessarily hating or criticising the characters, per say, but Telltale'… mores constant usage of the same formula in each season thus far. He even admits that he likes Ben. What was being pointed out was that each of these characters seemed to fill the same role. They're the liabilities, the people who make mistakes despite often times having good intentions and never offering much else outside of those mistakes. The major issue with that comes from the fact these characters, more times than most, don't have anything to balance out their fuck ups, so it tends to give the sense that they're just plot devices to cause problems and make the more capable survivors look badass. Sure, they might have a likeable personality and an upsetting backstory (Or in Sarah's case, an apparent mental illness, or in Gabe's case, none of those), but it still doesn't move their role away from just bei… [view original content]
What she couldn't cut the plant because she was too stupid to be able to. She wasn't afraid of Carver if she was she wouldn't have been dumb enough to talk when Carver was giving out instructions
It can if you're afraid of messing up with Carver again and getting in trouble for it.
Besides, Sarita got bit fairly long after Sarah left and it's not like Carlos(and originally Mike) wasn't screaming too.
I dunno if you're being sarcastic or not but you don't know how someone with PTSD works. Here is a definition for you.
Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a mental disorder that can develop after a person is exposed to a traumatic event, such as sexual assault, warfare, traffic collisions, or other threats on a person's life. Symptoms may include disturbing thoughts, feelings, or dreams related to the events, mental or physical distress to trauma-related cues, attempts to avoid trauma-related cues, alterations in how a person thinks and feels, and an increase in the fight-or-flight response. These symptoms last for more than a month after the event. Young children are less likely to show distress but instead may express their memories through play. A person with PTSD is at a higher risk for suicide and intentional self-harm
Also, how the fuck is she responsible for Reggie and Sarita's death? Sarah did nothing wrong.
She ain't the one who shot Carlos, she ain't the one who ordered Carver's men to accidentally kill him, she ain't the one who had this idea, escape through the herd.
Sarah screamed because her father died in front of her, wouldn't you have done that same? She was being realistic. Also, that escape plan is one of the worst ideas everyone could have done. I would have stayed in Carver's place until the walkers clear. Also also, Sarita made her decision to protect Sarah, she didn't even know her for a long time.
She isn't the one who told Carver to kill Reggie, she isn't the one who pushed him off the edge. Reggie lied about his lost arm because of a walker, it was definitely a punishment by Carver, you can tell that by his attitude and his stupid defense on him. Carver was planning to kill Reggie later on but he did that earlier because he found another excuse for him to kill him.
Sarah was more a burden or libility than screw up. Ben and Nick were screw ups.
Given the fancy terminology there, mind explaining the difference for the audience?
Gabe is somehow both
This got a laugh outta me, for some reason.
What she couldn't cut the plant because she was too stupid to be able to. She wasn't afraid of Carver if she was she wouldn't have been dumb enough to talk when Carver was giving out instructions
I dunno if you're being sarcastic or not but you don't know how someone with PTSD works. Here is a definition for you.
Posttraumatic s… moretress disorder (PTSD) is a mental disorder that can develop after a person is exposed to a traumatic event, such as sexual assault, warfare, traffic collisions, or other threats on a person's life. Symptoms may include disturbing thoughts, feelings, or dreams related to the events, mental or physical distress to trauma-related cues, attempts to avoid trauma-related cues, alterations in how a person thinks and feels, and an increase in the fight-or-flight response. These symptoms last for more than a month after the event. Young children are less likely to show distress but instead may express their memories through play. A person with PTSD is at a higher risk for suicide and intentional self-harm
Also, how the fuck is she responsible for Reggie and Sarita's death? Sarah did nothing wrong.
She a… [view original content]
Ben and Nick tried to do something but messed up
Sarah just didnt really do/try anything at all, she wouldnt move etc.
They were different kinds of inept
What she couldn't cut the plant because she was too stupid to be able to.
She literally says she's afraid of messing up if you help her.
She wasn't afraid of Carver if she was she wouldn't have been dumb enough to talk when Carver was giving out instructions
You're right, she wasn't very afraid of him...at first. But after he forced Carlos to slap her, she was messed emotionally for quite a while, possibly leading to her being left alone in the greenhouse awaiting her next assignment.
What she couldn't cut the plant because she was too stupid to be able to. She wasn't afraid of Carver if she was she wouldn't have been dumb enough to talk when Carver was giving out instructions
He was also there to be tragic comic relief, given that he helped the Cabin Group with their escape but got left behind to take the fall and was voiced by a comedian.
Me as well. Ben was great. I was only slightly annoyed by him sometimes.
Nick was a bit worse, what with his itchy trigger finger thinking he can make everything great by shooting it.
And Gabe... I know he wants to do good, but he tries too hard to do it and sometimes he doesn't even help out! He doesn't understand what he's doing, really...
No, she didn't. Carver was clearly gunning for him for "being weak" and just needed an excuse. He straight up said that to Clementine later. And even if he had killed him because Sarah didn't pick enough berries for his dumb ass, that still wouldn't be her fault, but the fault of the madman who murdered someone for no real reason. And even if you want to argue that she provided him the excuse he needed, Carver was responsible for putting her in that distracted, anxious state to begin with when he forced Carlos to smack her, so that's triple the reason why it's on Carver and no one else.
Other than that she nearly got Clem, Luke and Jane killed in the trailer
There's a pretty significant chasm-sized difference between actively making bad decisions that get people killed, and being stuck in a shutdown state where you don't even notice what's happening around you due to extreme shock and anxiety. Conflating the two is stupid on numerous levels.
At least he done some stuff though.
All of those characters you mentioned "did some stuff". The difference, as mentioned, is that Gabe actively makes things worse, and at least once he has done it with full intent. None of the other characters ever actively intended to divide the group further than they already are like Gabe has, determinant though it may have been.
Well Ben tended to fuck up all the time, and sadly never got a redemption except if you save him in episode 4 and he stands up to Kenny and … moreeven then never done anything useful.
Let's not forget Nick in Season 2 who never done anything of note other than killing Matthew who was trying to help the group so yep there is another one.
Sarah was a sheltered girl who was not fit to survive in this world, and she got Reggie killed. Other than that she nearly got Clem, Luke and Jane killed in the trailer and either died there herself or made it only a little farther before dying anyway.
Gabe on the other hand has most of his bad points being determinant at least, and he actually helps when needed. So far Gabe has been the least useless, but still makes some bad decisions which sucks. At least he done some stuff though.
I really don't like that there has always been one person who continuously fucks things up for everyone and I hope if the… [view original content]
Comments
Then you haven't played gta 5 online.
Carver was eventually gonna kill Reggie regardless of the reason why. It just so happened that the gardening incident with Sarah gave him an excuse to do it sooner than later and use him as an example to make her fall in line.
Also, do you know why she "risked" their lives? There really wasn't anything stopping them from not kicking the front door open or getting through the skylight.
Because people make mistakes and have flaws, dude. That's life.
Besides, even characters who don't get labeled screw things up from time to time and otherwise cause more problems than they solve, namely Kenny, Luke, and Jane. Not everyone can be competent, brave, smart, balanced, agile, or whatever other word you want to describe the other characters all the time and it's not like any of these "screwups," "invalids," "liabilities," or whatever fantastically racist slur you wanna give them can't be or rather wasn't any those things some of the time.
People need to get that through their skull and grow up. If you don't like it, go somewhere else because this series is not(or rather never was) for you after all.
It's actually parenting that is too good that it is bad.
True actually, but... I can't think of a good come-back..
That's why it's called 'bad parenting'. It becomes 'bad' in the end right?
I think a lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. He's not necessarily hating or criticising the characters, per say, but Telltale's constant usage of the same formula in each season thus far. He even admits that he likes Ben. What was being pointed out was that each of these characters seemed to fill the same role. They're the liabilities, the people who make mistakes despite often times having good intentions and never offering much else outside of those mistakes. The major issue with that comes from the fact these characters, more times than most, don't have anything to balance out their fuck ups, so it tends to give the sense that they're just plot devices to cause problems and make the more capable survivors look badass. Sure, they might have a likeable personality and an upsetting backstory (Or in Sarah's case, an apparent mental illness, or in Gabe's case, none of those), but it still doesn't move their role away from just being liabilities. And the worst thing? They never develop. Besides maybe Ben, all of these characters exited the story like they entered it.
As demonstrated by Ben, though, there's nothing too wrong with that setup, but after 3 seasons of it, it does get a little stale. As someone said earlier in this thread, I think it'd be a better idea for Telltale to balance out their characters' strengths and weakness, where nearly everyone, whether they're super capable in another field, could and can make blunders. They can easily have someone who's an excellent, let's say, hand-to-hand fighter, but on the other hand, they could be completely clueless in how to, I don't know, cook... Dumb example, I know, but you probably get the idea. Instead of just having one character being completely clueless about most things, give them other qualities that can make up for where they fail. It'd make things more fresh and probably decrease the amount of people that seem to dislike these types.
Thanks, but I guess I could've not been as harsh. Also I forgot Nick. Does Duck count?
REGGIE IS THE BEST AND HE COULD HAVE LIVED MUCH LONGER!!!
Prior to S3, these 'screw-up' characters added realism to the rag tag group of people - Ben being the most realistic as the outbreak was new. There would be plenty of less capable people who lived simply because they ran when others didn't. This is portrayed in S2 somewhat less successfully as the cast was simply too large to allow for enough character development for a lot of them to shine. This is why Sarah is frequently displayed as S2's 'screw-up' character, as they spent a lot more time with her than they did Nick.
S3 starts making us question these characters and how they are added to the group dynamic because a great deal more time has passed due to the time-skip. They can still include these characters, however if they have been a part of any group for any amount of time in order to portray it well - they need better written situations. One of the main mistakes early on was allowing the children to wander an unexplored area by themselves. Paring them each with one adult would've easily resolved that, added more interaction, and would've been a good early decision to give players so that they could either get to relate to Gabe or Mariana.
S4 can still have these characters as long as they're handled in a reasonable fashion. If they are members of the group, someone has to be paired with them, and they have to have a reason for being in harm's way - ex. the group has to relocate thus everyone has to move, or perhaps the 'screw-up' is a botanist needed to identify edible plants while scavenging. They could even add a less capable doctor needed to enter an abandoned clinic or hospital with the group to collect medicine - which would prevent the group members from any instinct to simply abandon them to their fate as they'd be vital members otherwise in spite of their inabilities in dire situations.
So because Kenny said you have to say it too?
I don't mind screw up characters as long as they are determinant.
looks at Gabe
Sarah was more a burden or libility than screw up. Ben and Nick were screw ups.
Gabe is somehow both
Actually, I'd definitely say Sarah's disposition at the end was very different from how she was at the beginning, for better or worse.
Given the fancy terminology there, mind explaining the difference for the audience?
This got a laugh outta me, for some reason.
Lol that's no excuse for getting both Sarita and Reggie killed PTSD doesn't stop you from harvesting from a fucking plant
It can if you're afraid of messing up with Carver again and getting in trouble for it.
Besides, Sarita got bit fairly long after Sarah left and it's not like Carlos(and originally Mike) wasn't screaming too.
What she couldn't cut the plant because she was too stupid to be able to. She wasn't afraid of Carver if she was she wouldn't have been dumb enough to talk when Carver was giving out instructions
I dunno if you're being sarcastic or not but you don't know how someone with PTSD works. Here is a definition for you.
Also, how the fuck is she responsible for Reggie and Sarita's death? Sarah did nothing wrong.
She ain't the one who shot Carlos, she ain't the one who ordered Carver's men to accidentally kill him, she ain't the one who had this idea, escape through the herd.
Sarah screamed because her father died in front of her, wouldn't you have done that same? She was being realistic. Also, that escape plan is one of the worst ideas everyone could have done. I would have stayed in Carver's place until the walkers clear. Also also, Sarita made her decision to protect Sarah, she didn't even know her for a long time.
She isn't the one who told Carver to kill Reggie, she isn't the one who pushed him off the edge. Reggie lied about his lost arm because of a walker, it was definitely a punishment by Carver, you can tell that by his attitude and his stupid defense on him. Carver was planning to kill Reggie later on but he did that earlier because he found another excuse for him to kill him.
Ben and Nick tried to do something but messed up
Sarah just didnt really do/try anything at all, she wouldnt move etc.
They were different kinds of inept
She had PTSD, for fuck's sakes. Learn biology.
Lol i never said she killed them directly but saying she's not a screw up is complete bullshit
But saying that her PTSD is not an excuse for her problems is the bullshit.
Kenny is almost as good as Reggie, so yes...
And Gabe caused trouble on purpose.
Actually I copy and pasted the definition of sarcasm in there
Ok so I want to edit my post but I don't know how, because I was really harsh and Sarah kinda wasn't a screw up as much as Nick, she's just annoying.
Why would you compare a major character with a character that served nothing to the story?
She literally says she's afraid of messing up if you help her.
You're right, she wasn't very afraid of him...at first. But after he forced Carlos to slap her, she was messed emotionally for quite a while, possibly leading to her being left alone in the greenhouse awaiting her next assignment.
Also, the trope gets slightly more annoying with each new series.
Ben > Nick > Gabe
Well my school is fuckin useless.
I think you should ask a mod
Here ya go, Derpy.
Thanks
REGGIE SERVED MOTIVATION!!! Also Kenny talked with Reggie.
Kenny didn't trust Reggie and Reggie was just there just to give us another reason to hate Carver.
He was also there to be tragic comic relief, given that he helped the Cabin Group with their escape but got left behind to take the fall and was voiced by a comedian.
I never hated Ben and Nick but Gabe did give me good reasons to hate him.
Me as well. Ben was great. I was only slightly annoyed by him sometimes.
Nick was a bit worse, what with his itchy trigger finger thinking he can make everything great by shooting it.
And Gabe... I know he wants to do good, but he tries too hard to do it and sometimes he doesn't even help out! He doesn't understand what he's doing, really...
No, she didn't. Carver was clearly gunning for him for "being weak" and just needed an excuse. He straight up said that to Clementine later. And even if he had killed him because Sarah didn't pick enough berries for his dumb ass, that still wouldn't be her fault, but the fault of the madman who murdered someone for no real reason. And even if you want to argue that she provided him the excuse he needed, Carver was responsible for putting her in that distracted, anxious state to begin with when he forced Carlos to smack her, so that's triple the reason why it's on Carver and no one else.
There's a pretty significant chasm-sized difference between actively making bad decisions that get people killed, and being stuck in a shutdown state where you don't even notice what's happening around you due to extreme shock and anxiety. Conflating the two is stupid on numerous levels.
All of those characters you mentioned "did some stuff". The difference, as mentioned, is that Gabe actively makes things worse, and at least once he has done it with full intent. None of the other characters ever actively intended to divide the group further than they already are like Gabe has, determinant though it may have been.