I tried to save Larry. I don't think he was going to turn. Remember when Sarita was going to turn? Her skin turned grayish and her eyes changed color and she made obvious groaning noises. Larry however did none of those things so maybe he could have been saved.
Could have phrased it a bit nicer, don't you think? And where did I say "hey some random stranger, get involved in something that has nothing to do with you"?
Where is he/she acting like a little shit?
I'm talking kill Larry, leave her at the house, drop ben, steal from the car yeeerp.
… more I killed Larry, I took her to Crawford, I told her we search for the boat and look for her parents, I didn't drop Ben, I didn't steal from the car.
I covered her, I shot Conrad, but I didn't kill Lingard. You're generalising.
No reason to call him/her a little shit. He/she won't just admit because there is nothing to admit. You were generalising. He/she responded, and so did I. Where's the problem? This is a public forum after all.
no I won't "just admit it"
Could have phrased it a bit nicer, don't you think? And where did I say "hey some random stranger, get involved in something that has nothing to do with you"?
No reason to call him/her a little shit. He/she won't just admit because there is nothing to admit. You were generalising. He/she responded, and so did I. Where's the problem? This is a public forum after all.
no I won't "just admit it"
Could have phrased it a bit nicer, don't you think? And where did I say "hey some random stranger, get involved in something that has nothing to do with you"?
OK so the way I see it it'd be forbidden to tell my opinion in, say, the debate dan and Kennyshouladieins1 have above this one here? That's usually how a forum works, you know? People debating. And if you go off to insult someone, for stating an opinion, you should expect someone to react to that. Also, you were generalising about people. I'd consider myself one of them you generalised, so I gave my opinion is all.
Just not exactly fair when they intentionally make me angry to get me banned again. As humiliating as being banned may be, it causes some funny and stimulating conversations with my friends. Maybe I'll just stick with the approach I used last time I was pissed at someone
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit. There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they had to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!! Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
Bringing him back was pandering..it is the lowest form of entertainment because it requires so little effort. He should have stayed dead.
… more
Lol you wouldn't have said that if it were anyone else would you? Well that of course is your opinion which is fine and although I agree that it was fan service as to why he was brought back, i am glad they did because the fact is the story still worked out ok more or less well and brought up some wonderful topics on this forum. I do agree that he shouldn't have had as much screen time as he did but obviously this was necessary for the story they ended up telling. Personally they probably wouldn't have written the cabin group any better if he hadn't been in the game though.
No one was in immediate danger in the meat locker. The Duck and Larry situations were not different.
sigh did you not read anything i said above? I gave you perfectly valid points as to why they WERE in immediate da… [view original content]
Just not exactly fair when they intentionally make me angry to get me banned again. As humiliating as being banned may be, it causes some fu… morenny and stimulating conversations with my friends. Maybe I'll just stick with the approach I used last time I was pissed at someone
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit.
They are pretty elaborate and coherent. And I agree with them.
There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they had to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!!
They were in immediate danger, because if Larry had died while Lilly is doing CPR, he'd have turned and as soon he did that, you wouldn't be able to quickly pick up the salt lick and drop it on him. You saw how long Kenny took to pick it up and carry. You'd probably drop the salt lick on Lilly by accident when Walker-Larry pulls her down to him and bites her. One down, two to go. Let's say Lee and Kenny manage to push him down, who offs him? Clementine? Lilly's about to die with a chewed-off face and will be a walker any minute, but oh, Lee and Kenny have to hold down Larry, so Clem is supposed to smash Larry's and Lilly's head in? With what? The salt lick? She can't lift that. Result: All are going to die.
Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
First off, no one dies immediately after a bite, as you were able to see countless times. He's a little boy and you can easily handle that (why everyone died when Kenny threw you out is beyond me). And you have time, and yes it's Kenny's son, so he gets that time.
Do you think if Lee or Kenny had that heart attack, Larry would reanimate? If you do believe that, you're naive. He knocked Lee out and left him to die in the drugstore, and tells him they'd be fine without him. He'd do the same what Kenny and determinantely Lee did.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
If he got a way out of not is debatable. Glenn's survival is a stretch as well, because it could've happened walkers start noshing Glenn's face while he screams. Maybe Kenny got covered in walker guts and managed to push through, without noticing what saved him. But that's just my take on that. And yes, he had a great "ending", but it was left ambiguous on purpose. When Christa asks Lee if he saw them dying, he replies with "No one was getting out of there.", he doesn't say "Yes." or "I saw them die." "No one was getting out of there." is somewhat deniability in believing they died, hoping Kenny got out. And that was enough for Telltale to get Kenny back. Stretch or not, I appreciate it.
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit. There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they … morehad to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!! Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did. Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not. Besides, most of the members commenting on this discussion, are already inclined to agree with you (maybe due to having a bias). That and the fact that I'm not going to argue over a video game character is exactly why I'm excusing myself from the conversation.
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it… more's not the "right" choice.
Um i suppose when David/Travis turned at the motor inn doesn't count then? Because the fact is, in TWD universe when someone dies they turn, Larry would have turned in minutes if he could not have been revived and even if he had survived he would have died shortly later anyway due to no immediate medical care for him so how is it not a right choice? It may not be moral to you but they would have all died if Larry hadn't been dealt with one way or another. There is no right or wrong when it comes to survival. It's just imperative.
Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all).
Ugh! It's lines like "Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood" that really piss me off due to how n… [view original content]
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit.
Without merit?? I just provided you proof and facts that backed up what i said and you just disregard my post saying it was without merit? Talk about being in denial!
There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they had to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!!
You really just don't listen to you? I mean no offence, i am not trying to annoy you but if u did actually read what i said you would have seen my point and actual evidence. KSDIS1 (which is what i will call you from now on), i already explained why there was an immediate threat so why are you still denying it when i literally just told you my reason which btw you didn't counter effectively? Here comes Mr Copy & Paste again:
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 minutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick anyway.
You keep on harping on about Kenny not waiting and that they should have the block ready even though gave you an example as to why someone wasn't going to hold up a heavy salt lick and wait for something to happen when that in itself is a risk. And what is this 24 seconds bullshit? He had the heart attack and a few minutes passed before the situation escalated into something more serious which would have occurred. The fact that above i again explained how there was no time to wait before making a decision. It is completely moronic to honestly say if you in real life were in that meat locker that you would wait to see if a man could be revived knowing that not only would he die upon revival due to lack of medical care but the fact at any second he would turn and kill everyone. You even admitted once he was beyond help and yet you criticise a man for hurting a woman's feelings over saving her damn life??? Jeez man!
At the very least you should explain why you think i am wrong about there being an immediate threat? So far you have just repeated yourself saying i am wrong without giving a good counter argument to my point. So one more time i ask you, how can you say there was no immediate danger when i have just given you a justified, fair reason as to why there was a danger given the lack of time they had to deal with him seeing as the minutes were ticking after that heart attack?
Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
It's not about "because it's Kenny's kid". If Larry or anyone had been bitten and the group were not trapped do you honestly think Kenny would kill them? No he would not because the situation is different and not immediately life threatening. Give him some damn credit rather than painting him in such a bad light over this.
I am pretty sure Lee had some idea that you don't turn immediately when bitten considering that he met the woman Irene at the motel in episode 1 and discovered she was bitten. She even explained how her boyfriend got bitten, got sick and died so Lee knew that you don't just die instantly and there is no reason why everyone else wouldn't have known this. You'd have thought during the 3 month time jump something will have been discussed. There is also the woman who ran out onto the street at the start of Long Road Ahead who got bitten on the leg and she didn't turn instantly and Kenny and Lee clearly saw that. So no, that theory of yours is invalid based upon this evidence i have presented.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
But that is my whole point KSDIS1! I do see her pov, I mentioned why before!! There wasn't time for Lilly!!! I've explained like 3 times now! You cannot give someone time when there isn't any time to take or even risking to give her time if it meant that her father would suddenly turn, pull her down and rip into her face! Please answer this question that you didn't answer before. What is more important? Someone's feelings or making sure that she and everyone else remains safe?
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
Fair enough. I understand your view here and i agree that it was a good arc to end on. I too wish they had explained in detail how he survived instead of the real lucky shit excuse LazyTale gave
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit. There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they … morehad to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!! Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit. There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they … morehad to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!! Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize… more his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did. Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not. Besides, most of the members commenting on this discussion, are already inclined to agree with you (maybe due to having a bias). That and the fact that I'm not going to argue over a video game character is exactly why I'm excusing myself from the conversation.
What I was trying to say is, when you say "We can't save these people because of reason XYZ." VS "We gotta help 'em!!!", the one who says the first will always be the bad guy, no matter how right he is. And it's awful it's looked at it like that.
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did.
My reply was not to change your opinion, it was to merely give you a different insight into the situation instead of just one view that you seemed to have that's all.
Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not.
This is where you are wrong and i am not trying to annoy you or cause an argument but it is not murder when you do not know if someone is alive or dead. Larry could have been either? The scene was left a mystery and that's that. And once again i have to say that it is ridiculous that you are honestly saying what Kenny did was in cold blood. Do you even know what killing in cold blood means?:
in cold blood
Fig. without feeling; with cruel intent. (Frequently said of a crime, especially murder.) The killer walked up and shot the woman in cold blood. How insulting! For a person to say something like that in cold blood is just horrible. intentionally and without emotion The jury must now decide if the two men are guilty of killing their parents in cold blood.
I am sorry but for you to say it was a fact is very stupid. Kenny did not do what he did with intent or without emotion. You saw how shocked and upset he was the moment he did it. So please again, don't say something that is completely false.
Besides, most of the members commenting on this discussion, are already inclined to agree with you (maybe due to having a bias).
Not necessarily. I tend to give valid and fair reasons in my post to do with the topic of discussion.
That and the fact that I'm not going to argue over a video game character is exactly why I'm excusing myself from the conversation.
So why are you here as well then? It's more than just discussing a game character though in some ways as we often compare and share what we would do in a real life situation like the meat locker scene for example. Sometimes it's very interesting
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize… more his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did. Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not. Besides, most of the members commenting on this discussion, are already inclined to agree with you (maybe due to having a bias). That and the fact that I'm not going to argue over a video game character is exactly why I'm excusing myself from the conversation.
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 minutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick anyway.
First off Dee(That's what I am going to call you) I am a RN...While CPR is being done Larry would be receiving oxygen. Now 1 thing I will agree with...he was a goner. But in my view...they could have allowed her more than 24 seconds to mourn.
But stepping out of my save them at all costs mode...I would still have tried. It was the right thing to do. Also I have no clue where you get your 4 minutes thing from Dee...if you are meaning because of lack of air...it is around 6 minutes and that is partially what the CPR is for as he would more than likely be suffering from Stagnant hypoxia.
You know...when I think about all that work to get into the pharmacy.....FUCK YOU TELLTALE!!!!
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit.
Without merit?? I just provided you proof and facts that backed up what i said… more and you just disregard my post saying it was without merit? Talk about being in denial!
There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they had to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!!
You really just don't listen to you? I mean no offence, i am not trying to annoy you but if u did actually read what i said you would have seen my point and actual evidence. KSDIS1 (which is what i will call you from now on), i already explained why there was an immediate threat so why are you still denying it when i literally just told you my reason which btw you didn't counter effectively? Here comes Mr Copy & Paste again:
Larry had a heart attack, he stopp… [view original content]
Even though Lee risked his life and had to put down his zombified brother to save that old fuck's selfish ass? If he did went fully trust Lee, then fine, I get it. But trying to kill and constantly threatening the man who saved his ungrateful ass is nothing short of being an ungrateful, hateful prick.
Ugh Dee? You have to remind me of that awful 400 Days character? Lol.
I am a RN...
Ooh a registered nurse? Well i did not know this. My mum is a health/mental health nurse too so i have a lot if background knowledge when it comes to things like this. We should talk sometime lol!
Now 1 thing I will agree with...he was a goner. But in my view...they could have allowed her more than 24 seconds to mourn.
But stepping out of my save them at all costs mode...I would still have tried. It was the right thing to do.
You agree that Larry was a goner right so i must ask YET again (as you still haven't answered my fair question) and i am going to bold this.
Are someone's feelings more important than saving yourself and everyone else's life from a potential threat??
Please answer. As shitty as that is, which is more important?
My point still stands valid when i put to you that there was no time to stand around waiting. 5 seconds, 10 seconds or your favourite 24 seconds, no. Minutes had already passed when they discussed what to do about Larry so how do you figure they'd still have 24 seconds to wait/mourn? I'm sorry honey but i just can't see your reasoning here that you think they had the time or should have waited when the evidence presented to you says otherwise. I can't see you doing that if you were in that room in real life. It's just foolish to me to risk allowing a man to turn who would overpower the group just to spare the feelings of a woman. Even if they had waited, say he turned, the first thing he'd do is grab Lilly or determinant Lee. If they get bitten or die of blood loss or if their guts are spilled instantly depending on how severe the attack is then 1 threat becomes 3 doesn't it? And that is the point i have been trying to get across.
Also I have no clue where you get your 4 minutes thing from Dee...if you are meaning because of lack of air...it is around 6 minutes and that is partially what the CPR is for as he would more than likely be suffering from Stagnant hypoxia.
About the 3rd or 4th paragraph down, it says it takes 4-6 minutes for brain cells to die, in other words said person is virtually dead if not revived after that long so let's call it quits by saying you and i were both right about the 4 and 6 minute thing.
You know...when I think about all that work to get into the pharmacy.....FUCK YOU TELLTALE!!!!
Lol agreed, though at least the old git survived a further 3 months after getting him the pills from the pharmacy.
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 min… moreutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick any… [view original content]
Ahh fuck Larry....but imo...two grown males could have stopped Larry if he should have turned real fast. Now sure the issue is end Larry now or give Lilly time...you have your view and I have mine. Plus crushing his head in front of Clem...I would love to have seen a scene where she woke up from a nightmare because of that.
First off Dee(That's what I am going to call you)
Ugh Dee? You have to remind me of that awful 400 Days character? Lol.
I am a… more RN...
Ooh a registered nurse? Well i did not know this. My mum is a health/mental health nurse too so i have a lot if background knowledge when it comes to things like this. We should talk sometime lol!
Now 1 thing I will agree with...he was a goner. But in my view...they could have allowed her more than 24 seconds to mourn.
But stepping out of my save them at all costs mode...I would still have tried. It was the right thing to do.
You agree that Larry was a goner right so i must ask YET again (as you still haven't answered my fair question) and i am going to bold this.
Are someone's feelings more important than saving yourself and everyone else's life from a potential threat??
Please answer. As shitty as that is, which is more important?
My point still stands valid when… [view original content]
Even though Lee risked his life and had to put down his zombified brother to save that old fuck's selfish ass? If he did went fully trust Le… moree, then fine, I get it. But trying to kill and constantly threatening the man who saved his ungrateful ass is nothing short of being an ungrateful, hateful prick.
Ahh fuck Larry....but imo...two grown males could have stopped Larry if he should have turned real fast. Now sure the issue is end Larry no… morew or give Lilly time...you have your view and I have mine. Plus crushing his head in front of Clem...I would love to have seen a scene where she woke up from a nightmare because of that.
Yeah I forgot about Dee...so you are just Dan.
Yes, in my view she should have been given a couple of more minutes. It also would give Lee time to explain to Clem what they had to do...no reason to traumatize her.
two grown males could have stopped Larry if he should have turned real fast
Well both of them would be able to hold Larry down but n… moreot just the one. Not a guy his size anyway.
Not to continue this but KSDIS1 you still haven't answered my question lol:
Are someone's feelings more important than saving yourself and everyone else's life from a potential threat??
And thanks for not calling me that awful 400 days character lol
I agree with trying to save Larry, but I think the circumstances between the two of them might've been pretty different. With a heart attack, it's more an immediate emergency, and given the fact that Larry had collapsed just moments before he was killed, his body probably wouldn't have changed that quickly (meaning the skin change probably wouldn't have happened for at least a while, even after he turned). You can die from a heart attack pretty quickly if things aren't properly done.
With Sarita, she was sick well into the night and for most of the next morning before Kenny put her down. Whatever infection is in the walkers likely took more time against the body's immune system, overpowering it and changing her appearance and overall health. It's more a slower thing than what happened to Larry, so by the time it was her turn to go, she would've more closely resembled a walker than Larry would've. It's kind of the same thing with Duck.
I did try to save the old hardass, though, despite him giving me hell almost the entire time of knowing him. I wasn't about to kill Lilly's dad without at least giving it a shot first.
I tried to save Larry. I don't think he was going to turn. Remember when Sarita was going to turn? Her skin turned grayish and her eyes chan… moreged color and she made obvious groaning noises. Larry however did none of those things so maybe he could have been saved.
Yes, in my view she should have been given a couple of more minutes. It also would give Lee time to explain to Clem what they had to do...no reason to traumatize her.
Wow, then i am truly sorry to say this but in that situation you are really moronic and are no better than someone like Ben who puts people in danger. You would be a risk to the group because you would actually put someone's personal feelings before the safety of your family and friends. That is stupid and will get you killed.
And once again, they did NOT have a couple more minutes and i stated evidence as to why they didn't, why is that not sinking in? Lee did not have the time to tell Clem what was happening (besides she knew and was shielding her eyes and ears from it anyway) so why ignore the facts here? Trust me, i would have given Lilly all the time in the world if they had plenty of time but they just didn't and that is the whole point of what i am saying.
Sorry if I sounded harsh but it is baffling how anyone could say what you have about this.
Yes, in my view she should have been given a couple of more minutes. It also would give Lee time to explain to Clem what they had to do...no reason to traumatize her.
Because I have compassion...and sorry but they would have been able to dispatch Larry walker. We are fighting monsters Dan...no reason we have to become monsters ourselves.
Yes, in my view she should have been given a couple of more minutes. It also would give Lee time to explain to Clem what they had to do...no… more reason to traumatize her.
Wow, then i am truly sorry to say this but in that situation you are really moronic and are no better than someone like Ben who puts people in danger. You would be a risk to the group because you would actually put someone's personal feelings before the safety of your family and friends. That is stupid and will get you killed.
And once again, they did NOT have a couple more minutes and i stated evidence as to why they didn't, why is that not sinking in? Lee did not have the time to tell Clem what was happening (besides she knew and was shielding her eyes and ears from it anyway) so why ignore the facts here? Trust me, i would have given Lilly all the time in the world if they had plenty of time but they just didn't and that is the whole point of what i am saying.
S… [view original content]
I have compassion as well, and if Larry was bit and Lilly in denial, as Kenny was, I would give her all the time she needs. But that wasn't the case in the meat locker.
And I don't see them both deal with a Walker-Larry. Both can hold him down, but how do they off him? With their bare fists? Don't forget the context. If Lilly gets killed by Larry while doing CPR, she's out of the game and soon to be a walker while Kenny and Lee are busy holding down Larry. Who is supposed to off him and Lilly in that time? One alone won't be able to hold down Larry, let alone handle him.
Because I have compassion...and sorry but they would have been able to dispatch Larry walker. We are fighting monsters Dan...no reason we have to become monsters ourselves.
Because I have compassion...and sorry but they would have been able to dispatch Larry walker.
Compassion is not a priority over saving your own life and others around you. You are saying you would let yourself and everyone die just so Lilly isn't upset, even though she too would die anyway so what are you even saying this for?? Lol it makes no sense. And had Larry turned you do not know if they would be able to dispatch walker Larry the same as i don't know either. But as I explained with an extremely strong and likely outcome, they would need 2 men just to hold Larry down whilst someone else kills him which wouldn't have happened because Lilly wouldn't be able to put her walker dad down for emotional reasons and Clem couldn't do it so that leaves Lee or Kenny and if one lets him go, Larry would more than likely overpower the other and all hell breaks loose. So I don't think putting Larry down is as easy as you claim based on what i have just theorised.
We are fighting monsters Dan...no reason we have to become monsters ourselves.
Its not about becoming monsters, it's about doing something difficult to stay alive and keep those you care about alive regardless of compassion/feelings which become redundant in a life or death situation.
Because I have compassion...and sorry but they would have been able to dispatch Larry walker. We are fighting monsters Dan...no reason we have to become monsters ourselves.
Morally speaking, if you helped Kenny kill Larry, with there being no sure sign of him reanimating as a walker (which there wasn't), then it… more's not the "right" choice. Larry wasn't an immediate threat to the group's survival rate, and Kenny didn't need to murder him in cold blood (or at all). Which apparently, Lee seems to think the same way, because he can even say it himself (to Kenny determinately): "You murdered Larry." It was a rash action, that regardless of intent, came with severe consequences, as best said by Carlos in Season Two of The Walking Dead.
Helping Kenny kill Larry saves everyone else in the locker, but you're still technically murdering one of your group (Larry still sucks, though) but trying to save Larry means you want to save someone's life but it still kinda endangers everyone else.
I don't think there's any real wrong OR right choice in this scenario.
You should also take into consideration, how quickly he went from being "shocked and upset" to being composed and content. Without having a bias towards the character, Kenny lacked true empathy, guilt, remorse, or shame. He didn't want to cause unnecessary problems, and he knew that help would be needed in escaping the meat locker, which is why he tried to be at peace with the other survivors (namely Lilly, and Lee determinately).
Why am I here? To discuss the topic of conversation, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean arguing.
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize… more his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did.
My reply was not to change your opinion, it was to merely give you a different insight into the situation instead of just one view that you seemed to have that's all.
Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not.
This is where you are wrong and i am not trying to annoy you or cause an argument but it is not murder when you do not know if someone is alive or dead. Larry could have been either? The scene was left a mystery and that's that. And once again i have to say that it is ridiculous that you are honestl… [view original content]
What are you basing your percentage on? Do you not remember how Larry had a heart attack in the first episode and survived long enough to get some more nitroglycerin pills? Meaning that, his chances of survival are as good as they were back then. He didn't die from his first heart attack, and he didn't necessarily die from his second one either. It's quite simple actually.
You should also take into consideration, how quickly he went from being "shocked and upset" to being composed and content. Without having a bias towards the character, Kenny lacked true empathy, guilt, remorse, or shame. He didn't want to cause unnecessary problems, and he knew that help would be needed in escaping the meat locker, which is why he tried to be at peace with the other survivors (namely Lilly, and Lee determinately).
And? He still showed his shock regardless of how quick it was and he tried to apologise/talk to Lilly afterwards and I don't believe for a minute that it was only to get her to help him escape the meat locker at all. And he did show a form of guilt/empathy for his actions when Lee speaks to him afterwards he says "do you think i liked doing what I did? I'm the guy who couldn't bear to watch the family dog get put down". That there is a form of regret but he also looked at it as a difficult but necessary thing to do to keep everyone safe. There was also the scene when he talked to Lee alone in the woods before they found the station wagon. Sure it wasn't to the extent of guilt and regret he had when Shawn Greene died for example, but nevertheless, it was enough for him to want to talk it through with Lee showing a form of guilt. He also brings it up in the following episode saying to Lee his concerns about Lilly which also suggests he has guilt over it.
The point was that as horrible as it was, it was necessary to do in order to keep everyone safe as i have repeated in several posts.
Why am I here? To discuss the topic of conversation, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean arguing.
You should also take into consideration, how quickly he went from being "shocked and upset" to being composed and content. Without having a … morebias towards the character, Kenny lacked true empathy, guilt, remorse, or shame. He didn't want to cause unnecessary problems, and he knew that help would be needed in escaping the meat locker, which is why he tried to be at peace with the other survivors (namely Lilly, and Lee determinately).
Why am I here? To discuss the topic of conversation, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean arguing.
What are you basing your percentage on? Do you not remember how Larry had a heart attack in the first episode and survived long enough to get some more nitroglycerin pills? Meaning that, his chances of survival are as good as they were back then. He didn't die from his first heart attack, and he didn't necessarily die from his second one either. It's quite simple actually.
Except the second heart attack put him unconscious and he had stopped breathing which meant that the pills were vital to his survival at that time which they did not have
What are you basing your percentage on? Do you not remember how Larry had a heart attack in the first episode and survived long enough to ge… moret some more nitroglycerin pills? Meaning that, his chances of survival are as good as they were back then. He didn't die from his first heart attack, and he didn't necessarily die from his second one either. It's quite simple actually.
Comments
I tried to save Larry. I don't think he was going to turn. Remember when Sarita was going to turn? Her skin turned grayish and her eyes changed color and she made obvious groaning noises. Larry however did none of those things so maybe he could have been saved.
Could have phrased it a bit nicer, don't you think? And where did I say "hey some random stranger, get involved in something that has nothing to do with you"?
No reason to call him/her a little shit. He/she won't just admit because there is nothing to admit. You were generalising. He/she responded, and so did I. Where's the problem? This is a public forum after all.
Most conversations irl take place in public but that doesn't mean for some random to get involved.
Guys Kenny says to all of you:
Let's all get along lol
OK so the way I see it it'd be forbidden to tell my opinion in, say, the debate dan and Kennyshouladieins1 have above this one here? That's usually how a forum works, you know? People debating. And if you go off to insult someone, for stating an opinion, you should expect someone to react to that. Also, you were generalising about people. I'd consider myself one of them you generalised, so I gave my opinion is all.
I try to but people take things more seriously than they should.
Oh i know. I myself feel very strongly on certain topics. Its fine
Just not exactly fair when they intentionally make me angry to get me banned again. As humiliating as being banned may be, it causes some funny and stimulating conversations with my friends. Maybe I'll just stick with the approach I used last time I was pissed at someone
Yes I read your points...and they were without merit. There was no immediate threat to them...Larry was prostrate on the ground...all they had to do was have the block ready...that's it....but no 24 seconds into the heart attack Kenny had already decided to kill Larry and it had to be done now!! Duck was bitten...and for all they knew at that time...it could turn him instantly...yet because he is Kenny's kid...he gets time.
And no..I do not think you have ever tried seeing things from Lilly's pov. I am not saying that smashing his head in is a bad idea...but she needed time.
As for would I have complained if it had been someone else they brought back...it depends...Kenny I had issue with because A. there was no way out of that alley...and B. he had a great ending.
No one did anything to make you angry, especially not intentionally. You gotta stay calm.
They are pretty elaborate and coherent. And I agree with them.
They were in immediate danger, because if Larry had died while Lilly is doing CPR, he'd have turned and as soon he did that, you wouldn't be able to quickly pick up the salt lick and drop it on him. You saw how long Kenny took to pick it up and carry. You'd probably drop the salt lick on Lilly by accident when Walker-Larry pulls her down to him and bites her. One down, two to go. Let's say Lee and Kenny manage to push him down, who offs him? Clementine? Lilly's about to die with a chewed-off face and will be a walker any minute, but oh, Lee and Kenny have to hold down Larry, so Clem is supposed to smash Larry's and Lilly's head in? With what? The salt lick? She can't lift that. Result: All are going to die.
First off, no one dies immediately after a bite, as you were able to see countless times. He's a little boy and you can easily handle that (why everyone died when Kenny threw you out is beyond me). And you have time, and yes it's Kenny's son, so he gets that time.
Do you think if Lee or Kenny had that heart attack, Larry would reanimate? If you do believe that, you're naive. He knocked Lee out and left him to die in the drugstore, and tells him they'd be fine without him. He'd do the same what Kenny and determinantely Lee did.
If he got a way out of not is debatable. Glenn's survival is a stretch as well, because it could've happened walkers start noshing Glenn's face while he screams. Maybe Kenny got covered in walker guts and managed to push through, without noticing what saved him. But that's just my take on that. And yes, he had a great "ending", but it was left ambiguous on purpose. When Christa asks Lee if he saw them dying, he replies with "No one was getting out of there.", he doesn't say "Yes." or "I saw them die." "No one was getting out of there." is somewhat deniability in believing they died, hoping Kenny got out. And that was enough for Telltale to get Kenny back. Stretch or not, I appreciate it.
Let's just agree to disagree, because nothing that you say will convince me otherwise. What Kenny did was morally wrong. You can rationalize his actions all you want, and with whatever fancy terminology that you would like, but it still doesn't take away from what he did. Kenny murdered Larry, in what is in fact cold blood. Whether Kenny derived pleasure from his rash actions, that is up for question, but the question of morality concerning those actions is not. Besides, most of the members commenting on this discussion, are already inclined to agree with you (maybe due to having a bias). That and the fact that I'm not going to argue over a video game character is exactly why I'm excusing myself from the conversation.
Without merit?? I just provided you proof and facts that backed up what i said and you just disregard my post saying it was without merit? Talk about being in denial!
You really just don't listen to you? I mean no offence, i am not trying to annoy you but if u did actually read what i said you would have seen my point and actual evidence. KSDIS1 (which is what i will call you from now on), i already explained why there was an immediate threat so why are you still denying it when i literally just told you my reason which btw you didn't counter effectively? Here comes Mr Copy & Paste again:
Larry had a heart attack, he stopped breathing, when that happens, you have 4 minutes to save someone's life. Did you know that? After 4 minutes the body shuts down and we die. In the time Larry had the heart attack, whilst the group were talking about what to do how long do you think passed in that time? A few minutes at least right? Lilly was giving Larry CPR and there was no response in those few minutes, he still wasn't breathing. Now upon knowing this you are still seriously telling me that the group were not in any immediate danger???? Despite the fact i have just given you a clear reason as to why they were in a very dangerous moment? I think the rate of how fast David/Travis turned after dying and then turning is also enough evidence as to how quickly someone can turn. Don't forget that the group only had David/Travis's death/turn to go on to truly understand the time frame of when someone turns. But the majority turn pretty quick anyway.
You keep on harping on about Kenny not waiting and that they should have the block ready even though gave you an example as to why someone wasn't going to hold up a heavy salt lick and wait for something to happen when that in itself is a risk. And what is this 24 seconds bullshit? He had the heart attack and a few minutes passed before the situation escalated into something more serious which would have occurred. The fact that above i again explained how there was no time to wait before making a decision. It is completely moronic to honestly say if you in real life were in that meat locker that you would wait to see if a man could be revived knowing that not only would he die upon revival due to lack of medical care but the fact at any second he would turn and kill everyone. You even admitted once he was beyond help and yet you criticise a man for hurting a woman's feelings over saving her damn life??? Jeez man!
At the very least you should explain why you think i am wrong about there being an immediate threat? So far you have just repeated yourself saying i am wrong without giving a good counter argument to my point. So one more time i ask you, how can you say there was no immediate danger when i have just given you a justified, fair reason as to why there was a danger given the lack of time they had to deal with him seeing as the minutes were ticking after that heart attack?
It's not about "because it's Kenny's kid". If Larry or anyone had been bitten and the group were not trapped do you honestly think Kenny would kill them? No he would not because the situation is different and not immediately life threatening. Give him some damn credit rather than painting him in such a bad light over this.
I am pretty sure Lee had some idea that you don't turn immediately when bitten considering that he met the woman Irene at the motel in episode 1 and discovered she was bitten. She even explained how her boyfriend got bitten, got sick and died so Lee knew that you don't just die instantly and there is no reason why everyone else wouldn't have known this. You'd have thought during the 3 month time jump something will have been discussed. There is also the woman who ran out onto the street at the start of Long Road Ahead who got bitten on the leg and she didn't turn instantly and Kenny and Lee clearly saw that. So no, that theory of yours is invalid based upon this evidence i have presented.
But that is my whole point KSDIS1! I do see her pov, I mentioned why before!! There wasn't time for Lilly!!! I've explained like 3 times now! You cannot give someone time when there isn't any time to take or even risking to give her time if it meant that her father would suddenly turn, pull her down and rip into her face! Please answer this question that you didn't answer before. What is more important? Someone's feelings or making sure that she and everyone else remains safe?
Fair enough. I understand your view here and i agree that it was a good arc to end on. I too wish they had explained in detail how he survived instead of the real lucky shit excuse LazyTale gave
What Dan and Tobi said.
Sadly, the moral argument will always win over the logical argument.
Without logic, morality wouldn't exist.
What I was trying to say is, when you say "We can't save these people because of reason XYZ." VS "We gotta help 'em!!!", the one who says the first will always be the bad guy, no matter how right he is. And it's awful it's looked at it like that.
My reply was not to change your opinion, it was to merely give you a different insight into the situation instead of just one view that you seemed to have that's all.
This is where you are wrong and i am not trying to annoy you or cause an argument but it is not murder when you do not know if someone is alive or dead. Larry could have been either? The scene was left a mystery and that's that. And once again i have to say that it is ridiculous that you are honestly saying what Kenny did was in cold blood. Do you even know what killing in cold blood means?:
in cold blood
Fig. without feeling; with cruel intent. (Frequently said of a crime, especially murder.) The killer walked up and shot the woman in cold blood. How insulting! For a person to say something like that in cold blood is just horrible.
intentionally and without emotion The jury must now decide if the two men are guilty of killing their parents in cold blood.
I am sorry but for you to say it was a fact is very stupid. Kenny did not do what he did with intent or without emotion. You saw how shocked and upset he was the moment he did it. So please again, don't say something that is completely false.
Not necessarily. I tend to give valid and fair reasons in my post to do with the topic of discussion.
So why are you here as well then? It's more than just discussing a game character though in some ways as we often compare and share what we would do in a real life situation like the meat locker scene for example. Sometimes it's very interesting
First off Dee(That's what I am going to call you) I am a RN...While CPR is being done Larry would be receiving oxygen. Now 1 thing I will agree with...he was a goner. But in my view...they could have allowed her more than 24 seconds to mourn.
But stepping out of my save them at all costs mode...I would still have tried. It was the right thing to do. Also I have no clue where you get your 4 minutes thing from Dee...if you are meaning because of lack of air...it is around 6 minutes and that is partially what the CPR is for as he would more than likely be suffering from Stagnant hypoxia.
You know...when I think about all that work to get into the pharmacy.....FUCK YOU TELLTALE!!!!
Even though Lee risked his life and had to put down his zombified brother to save that old fuck's selfish ass? If he did went fully trust Lee, then fine, I get it. But trying to kill and constantly threatening the man who saved his ungrateful ass is nothing short of being an ungrateful, hateful prick.
Thank you.
Ugh Dee? You have to remind me of that awful 400 Days character? Lol.
Ooh a registered nurse? Well i did not know this. My mum is a health/mental health nurse too so i have a lot if background knowledge when it comes to things like this. We should talk sometime lol!
You agree that Larry was a goner right so i must ask YET again (as you still haven't answered my fair question) and i am going to bold this.
Are someone's feelings more important than saving yourself and everyone else's life from a potential threat??
Please answer. As shitty as that is, which is more important?
My point still stands valid when i put to you that there was no time to stand around waiting. 5 seconds, 10 seconds or your favourite 24 seconds, no. Minutes had already passed when they discussed what to do about Larry so how do you figure they'd still have 24 seconds to wait/mourn? I'm sorry honey but i just can't see your reasoning here that you think they had the time or should have waited when the evidence presented to you says otherwise. I can't see you doing that if you were in that room in real life. It's just foolish to me to risk allowing a man to turn who would overpower the group just to spare the feelings of a woman. Even if they had waited, say he turned, the first thing he'd do is grab Lilly or determinant Lee. If they get bitten or die of blood loss or if their guts are spilled instantly depending on how severe the attack is then 1 threat becomes 3 doesn't it? And that is the point i have been trying to get across.
I found this:
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/11/long-persons-heart-stopped-wouldnt-try-revive/
About the 3rd or 4th paragraph down, it says it takes 4-6 minutes for brain cells to die, in other words said person is virtually dead if not revived after that long so let's call it quits by saying you and i were both right about the 4 and 6 minute thing.
Lol agreed, though at least the old git survived a further 3 months after getting him the pills from the pharmacy.
Ahh fuck Larry....but imo...two grown males could have stopped Larry if he should have turned real fast. Now sure the issue is end Larry now or give Lilly time...you have your view and I have mine. Plus crushing his head in front of Clem...I would love to have seen a scene where she woke up from a nightmare because of that.
Yeah I forgot about Dee...so you are just Dan.
I don't think Larry knew what Lee had to go through to get him that medicine (e.g. kill his own walker brother).
Well both of them would be able to hold Larry down but not just the one. Not a guy his size anyway.
Not to continue this but KSDIS1 you still haven't answered my question lol:
Are someone's feelings more important than saving yourself and everyone else's life from a potential threat??
And thanks for not calling me that awful 400 days character lol
Yes, in my view she should have been given a couple of more minutes. It also would give Lee time to explain to Clem what they had to do...no reason to traumatize her.
Why did I even bother clicking on this thread?
Kenny should've handled that better.
I agree with trying to save Larry, but I think the circumstances between the two of them might've been pretty different. With a heart attack, it's more an immediate emergency, and given the fact that Larry had collapsed just moments before he was killed, his body probably wouldn't have changed that quickly (meaning the skin change probably wouldn't have happened for at least a while, even after he turned). You can die from a heart attack pretty quickly if things aren't properly done.
With Sarita, she was sick well into the night and for most of the next morning before Kenny put her down. Whatever infection is in the walkers likely took more time against the body's immune system, overpowering it and changing her appearance and overall health. It's more a slower thing than what happened to Larry, so by the time it was her turn to go, she would've more closely resembled a walker than Larry would've. It's kind of the same thing with Duck.
I did try to save the old hardass, though, despite him giving me hell almost the entire time of knowing him. I wasn't about to kill Lilly's dad without at least giving it a shot first.
Wow, then i am truly sorry to say this but in that situation you are really moronic and are no better than someone like Ben who puts people in danger. You would be a risk to the group because you would actually put someone's personal feelings before the safety of your family and friends. That is stupid and will get you killed.
And once again, they did NOT have a couple more minutes and i stated evidence as to why they didn't, why is that not sinking in? Lee did not have the time to tell Clem what was happening (besides she knew and was shielding her eyes and ears from it anyway) so why ignore the facts here? Trust me, i would have given Lilly all the time in the world if they had plenty of time but they just didn't and that is the whole point of what i am saying.
Sorry if I sounded harsh but it is baffling how anyone could say what you have about this.
Because I have compassion...and sorry but they would have been able to dispatch Larry walker. We are fighting monsters Dan...no reason we have to become monsters ourselves.
I have compassion as well, and if Larry was bit and Lilly in denial, as Kenny was, I would give her all the time she needs. But that wasn't the case in the meat locker.
And I don't see them both deal with a Walker-Larry. Both can hold him down, but how do they off him? With their bare fists? Don't forget the context. If Lilly gets killed by Larry while doing CPR, she's out of the game and soon to be a walker while Kenny and Lee are busy holding down Larry. Who is supposed to off him and Lilly in that time? One alone won't be able to hold down Larry, let alone handle him.
Compassion is not a priority over saving your own life and others around you. You are saying you would let yourself and everyone die just so Lilly isn't upset, even though she too would die anyway so what are you even saying this for?? Lol it makes no sense. And had Larry turned you do not know if they would be able to dispatch walker Larry the same as i don't know either. But as I explained with an extremely strong and likely outcome, they would need 2 men just to hold Larry down whilst someone else kills him which wouldn't have happened because Lilly wouldn't be able to put her walker dad down for emotional reasons and Clem couldn't do it so that leaves Lee or Kenny and if one lets him go, Larry would more than likely overpower the other and all hell breaks loose. So I don't think putting Larry down is as easy as you claim based on what i have just theorised.
Its not about becoming monsters, it's about doing something difficult to stay alive and keep those you care about alive regardless of compassion/feelings which become redundant in a life or death situation.
No sure sign ? I assume you didnt notice that without nitroglycerin pills, his survival chance is %0.
No problem mate.
Eh, I can see both sides of it really.
Helping Kenny kill Larry saves everyone else in the locker, but you're still technically murdering one of your group (Larry still sucks, though) but trying to save Larry means you want to save someone's life but it still kinda endangers everyone else.
I don't think there's any real wrong OR right choice in this scenario.
You should also take into consideration, how quickly he went from being "shocked and upset" to being composed and content. Without having a bias towards the character, Kenny lacked true empathy, guilt, remorse, or shame. He didn't want to cause unnecessary problems, and he knew that help would be needed in escaping the meat locker, which is why he tried to be at peace with the other survivors (namely Lilly, and Lee determinately).
Why am I here? To discuss the topic of conversation, of course, but that doesn't necessarily mean arguing.
What are you basing your percentage on? Do you not remember how Larry had a heart attack in the first episode and survived long enough to get some more nitroglycerin pills? Meaning that, his chances of survival are as good as they were back then. He didn't die from his first heart attack, and he didn't necessarily die from his second one either. It's quite simple actually.
And? He still showed his shock regardless of how quick it was and he tried to apologise/talk to Lilly afterwards and I don't believe for a minute that it was only to get her to help him escape the meat locker at all. And he did show a form of guilt/empathy for his actions when Lee speaks to him afterwards he says "do you think i liked doing what I did? I'm the guy who couldn't bear to watch the family dog get put down". That there is a form of regret but he also looked at it as a difficult but necessary thing to do to keep everyone safe. There was also the scene when he talked to Lee alone in the woods before they found the station wagon. Sure it wasn't to the extent of guilt and regret he had when Shawn Greene died for example, but nevertheless, it was enough for him to want to talk it through with Lee showing a form of guilt. He also brings it up in the following episode saying to Lee his concerns about Lilly which also suggests he has guilt over it.
The point was that as horrible as it was, it was necessary to do in order to keep everyone safe as i have repeated in several posts.
Okey dokey
Except the second heart attack put him unconscious and he had stopped breathing which meant that the pills were vital to his survival at that time which they did not have