Clem made the situation what it is. She's the one that points the gun at Eli first. Why even go that far? Clem should've just pointed the gun towards the ground initially.
Then I look back a few years ago on how Clem gave Lee so much shit about swearing and needless killing (asking me did I have to kill those St. John brothers from S1 and what not). Wish ghost Lee could whisper "swear" in her ears everytime she's a little Ms. Potty mouth and she feels guilty the whole game as did me. Touche
I like how she doesn't give a shit she killed someone over some bullets.
Immediately focuses on not getting caught, and trusting a hostage to bail you out of it.
She's so ruined dude.
It was really irresponsible of her but I'm unsure if it was out of character. Aside from Lee no one has really taught her proper gun safety that we have seen.
Then again Clementine has been out of character nearly the whole season.
I think the idea is that you have the right to kill if it's to protect/preserve of someone else or yourself from serious harm. Which wasn't the case at that point.
Yes. She was definitely out of hand with the aggression there, especially considering the drunken dealer was beaten and caving in to her demands.Though admittedly, I probably wouldn't be as angry/critical about it if she did regret doing it or better yet, hadn't outright killed him but still hurt him a fair bit with like a shot in the arm or something.
It's also worth noting that the bullets were apparently working until literally right as they were at the gates of Prescott clearing walkers with Tripp, meaning she was more or less threatening him into a refund because one or two bullets messed up on the way to see him and ended up accidentally murdering him when she wouldn't calm down.
I know Eli is essentially an acceptable target(which just makes it worse in my opinion), but at the same time, that's not how life works: you can't just decide to kill people just because you don't like them or their attitude--especially not in a place where you're a visitor on ice. If she was having a problem, she should've called Tripp(or Conrad/Francine if he's busy) and let him do his job by helping settle things. It doesn't help that unused dialogue has her realize that she could hang for doing that.
I realize Telltale pretty much dug themselves a hole with the whole #MyClementine thing, but the Clementine I remember wouldn't have been that blatantly careless with other people's lives.
Both are at fault. Too much stupid was happening in that scene.
Also is that how guns even work? Like her gun jammed and then later it j… moreust somehow unjammed and shot. I didn't see her mess with it during the argument. And the guns not a revolver. So shouldn't the jammed bullet still be stuck in the gun? I don't know much about guns.
The moment she shot him I was pissed at her so much...even if it was an accident it's because I fucking told her these past 2 seasons to NOT KILL PEOPLE ONLY IF NECESSARY.... But telltale wouldn't want ur choices to matter do they now................................
That had to have literally been the worst written The Walking Dead scene in all of the video games. The writers pretty much put you in a situation with no choice. No one conveniently notices as Eli tries to murder Javier, Clementine acts like a complete tool and flat out murders a man outside of player control. The whole scene was such fucking trash
It was definitely strange that she would shoot a loaded gun at someone when she was taught from the beginning to be safe with guns and they are not a toy. There wasn't a point in her story where she was that careless with someone else's life, so it was OOC for how I played her. It was wrong, and I did not lie for her.
Then I look back a few years ago on how Clem gave Lee so much shit about swearing and needless killing (asking me did I have to kill those S… moret. John brothers from S1 and what not). Wish ghost Lee could whisper "swear" in her ears everytime she's a little Ms. Potty mouth and she feels guilty the whole game as did me. Touche
I know he died, and I know it was at Clem's hands, but who cares? It's the end of the fucking world; boo-hoo, a random scumbag died (who almost got Clem killed). I never said it should be forgettable to kill, but in the world that she lives in, it needs to be easy to kill or she won't survive for long. Yes, it was a shitty thing to happen, but in that world, it's survival of the fittest plain and simple. If you've seen the absolute hell that Clem has gone through, you should understand that killing a man (albeit on accident) that almost got her killed shouldn't bother her at all.
Can you seriously tell me if you were in her shoes you wouldn't have reacted the same way? Clem is remorseful for the people closest to her (obviously only a few people) and ruthless to the ones she could care less about, which is exactly how she needs to act or else she will die. I agree, killing a man must be hard no matter what or who they are, and she should feel at least the tiniest amount of regret, but I seriously don't blame her if she doesn't feel that way.
Stranger or not, Eli died all the same. Him being a "random survivor" doesn't change a damn thing, she straight up murdered a man and all sh… moree did was to think how to get away with it.
Killing people shouldn't be easy or forgettable. It's not some magic gate you go through to become a cold-blooded monster, people slowly turn into one, and even seemingly small things are parts of this transformation. Clementine is very young and vulnerable to changes, it's quite easy for her to take a wrong turn and end up forever changed, especially now, when she doesn't have anyone to watch over her.
I wouldn't have been pretending. Motherfucker not only sold me faulty merchandise but then attacked me for calling him out on it? I would've ripped his arm off and beaten him to death with it.
The fact that the world has ended doesn't justify murder or cannot serve as an excuse for killing others.
Following your logic, Clementine could kill people left and right as long as they are insignificant and nameless faces in the crowd. You say this is just a world she has to live now, however that's the very exact reason of why Eli's murder was extremely wrong. The world doesn't revolve around her. The fact that someone is a stranger doesn't mean they can't be a husband/wife, father/mother or just a person important for someone's else, that has their goals, dreams, etc.
After dead started walking, each life is doubly important and playing God - taking lives - is something that you refrain from doing until it's absolutely necessary. It should be number one rule in a young girl's mind, especially after she's been through such horrors.
It's so easy to get lost in the post-apocalyptic reality, especially telling yourself you did what you had to, which is just a misleading, desperate lie. You kill when necessary, for example in self-defense, but it was neither self-defence nor necessary. If she just shrugs shoulders and goes "meh" afterwards, she's gonna do it again, and again, and again, and finally she comes to the point which is impossible for her to go back. She's gonna become a monster that Lee tried his best to protect her from.
Can you seriously tell me if you were in her shoes you wouldn't have reacted the same way?
I wouldn't. Obviously I'd like to hear his part of the story and maybe even give him a chance to explain himself, and if we butted heads, I would inform people who run Prescott that they are keeping a lying scum under their roof, a person who can get them killed. Because it's a community and they've got their own rules and ways of doing things.
You know, she could've shown Eli his bullets don't fire not by pointing a gun at his face.
I know he died, and I know it was at Clem's hands, but who cares? It's the end of the fucking world; boo-hoo, a random scumbag died (who alm… moreost got Clem killed). I never said it should be forgettable to kill, but in the world that she lives in, it needs to be easy to kill or she won't survive for long. Yes, it was a shitty thing to happen, but in that world, it's survival of the fittest plain and simple. If you've seen the absolute hell that Clem has gone through, you should understand that killing a man (albeit on accident) that almost got her killed shouldn't bother her at all.
Can you seriously tell me if you were in her shoes you wouldn't have reacted the same way? Clem is remorseful for the people closest to her (obviously only a few people) and ruthless to the ones she could care less about, which is exactly how she needs to act or else she will die. I agree, killing a man must be hard no matter what or who they are, and she should f… [view original content]
Guy deserved it, accident or not. Based on how peace-loving Clem is (or was), it does seem out of character that she doesn't regret it at LEAST a little, but with how the world of TWD treats her, I don't exactly blame her for not really giving a shit.
Clem shooting Eli was reckless and honestly out of character. She was never the type to get mad... or at least to that level. She is usually silent angry... nearly a robot with emotions.
Eli did not try to kill Javier or Clem until Clem pointed a gun with bullets in his face and pulled the trigger. He had a calm down... don't care attitude until that point. Because of that... I don't think he sold her blank bullets on purpose. Clem just lost it and was kenny mode at the time but at least kenny be right.
Clem has never really showed remorse over killing anyone even in the first game except for Lee... kinda... So I think it would be out of character for her to show remorse. Clem has been a borderline psychopath since even the first game. It's just that the innocence is gone... mostly. She only cares about a very select group of people... anybody else she can be borderline evil to.
We as the player love Clem and so we are bais in her favor but she was in the wrong in this particular scene. The game says something like he was a scumbag to the viewer so it seem like Clem isn't a monster... but the way she acted for that whole scene is definitely something a psychopath would do. What is most telling is how fast she went from accidentally killing someone face to protect myself face. It was in the span of like two seconds. Only psychopaths can do stuff like that.
Personally would be funnier with ghost Lee I think, if Clementine ever had a episode where she starts to loose it.
Like when Rick went insane over Lori being dead. But whatever floats your boat.
You're absolutely right that the apocalypse doesn't justify murder, and I know it wasn't a good thing that Clem killed him, but I highly doubt she would ever purposefully murder an unarmed man.
I never said she should be allowed to murder people left and right; what I said was - in a firefight - it's completely fine to kill, seeing as it's considered self-defense. The world she lives in demands survival of the fittest; I didn't mean for it to sound like she's justified in murdering every person she ever meets, but only that she should know how to kill without hesitation if it's absolutely necessary to do so.
The world doesn't revolve around her.
Blasphemy!
The fact that someone is a stranger doesn't mean they can't be a husband/wife, father/mother or just a person important for someone's else, that has their goals, dreams, etc.
I know this, as there are multiple points of views (completely different groups) in that world, and seeing those different groups does prove the fact that other people do matter in that world, but survivors killing their enemies is a lot more frequent than it was before the apocalypse, and killing people to survive is the norm in that world. Of course, she should of at least felt a little bad about murdering Eli, but she wasn't emotionally attached to him (she barely is with anyone anymore) that it makes sense she only cared about how to get away with it. After all the people she's lost, can you really blame her?
After dead started walking, each life is doubly important
Debatable.
Only the decent people truly mattered, but nature didn't agree with that: naturally, only the strong -- and those protected by the strong -- survived, who in turn created a stronger generation of people. Don't get me wrong, there are still decent people in that world, but not too many are left.
taking lives - is something that you refrain from doing until it's absolutely necessary. It should be number one rule in a young girl's mind, especially after she's been through such horrors.
I agree with the fact that you should only kill when absolutely necessary, and I agree that Clem should think that way (let's be honest: she does... mostly), but after all she's been through -- everyone she's ever loved or known have all died right in front of her eyes -- it has to be hard for her to keep her humanity intact, and for the most part she does.
Throughout the apocalypse, Clem has survived on her own for like 2 and a half years (not straight but in total) of it -- and most people die, even while in groups -- yet a teenager has been able to keep only herself and a baby alive for close to 2 years, and at that point survival is all that matters to her. If what you say is true about Clem becoming a monster that can't stop killing, then she should be that very thing by now, but she isn't. Clem isn't a psychopath, and she won't become a serial killer.
give him a chance to explain himself
They were arguing for quite a while, and I'm sure he told her his side of the story, which he probably lied about. He gave her faulty bullets that almost got her killed and that alone deserves a bullet to the head (that's a hyperbole if you were wondering).
Eli probably already knew his bullets were faulty and he just didn't care.
The fact that the world has ended doesn't justify murder or cannot serve as an excuse for killing others.
Following your logic, Clementin… moree could kill people left and right as long as they are insignificant and nameless faces in the crowd. You say this is just a world she has to live now, however that's the very exact reason of why Eli's murder was extremely wrong. The world doesn't revolve around her. The fact that someone is a stranger doesn't mean they can't be a husband/wife, father/mother or just a person important for someone's else, that has their goals, dreams, etc.
After dead started walking, each life is doubly important and playing God - taking lives - is something that you refrain from doing until it's absolutely necessary. It should be number one rule in a young girl's mind, especially after she's been through such horrors.
It's so easy to get lost in the post-apocalyptic reality, especially telling yourself you did what … [view original content]
Comments
Clem made the situation what it is. She's the one that points the gun at Eli first. Why even go that far? Clem should've just pointed the gun towards the ground initially.
Then I look back a few years ago on how Clem gave Lee so much shit about swearing and needless killing (asking me did I have to kill those St. John brothers from S1 and what not). Wish ghost Lee could whisper "swear" in her ears everytime she's a little Ms. Potty mouth and she feels guilty the whole game as did me. Touche
It was really irresponsible of her but I'm unsure if it was out of character. Aside from Lee no one has really taught her proper gun safety that we have seen.
Then again Clementine has been out of character nearly the whole season.
I think the idea is that you have the right to kill if it's to protect/preserve of someone else or yourself from serious harm. Which wasn't the case at that point.
Yes. She was definitely out of hand with the aggression there, especially considering the drunken dealer was beaten and caving in to her demands.Though admittedly, I probably wouldn't be as angry/critical about it if she did regret doing it or better yet, hadn't outright killed him but still hurt him a fair bit with like a shot in the arm or something.
It's also worth noting that the bullets were apparently working until literally right as they were at the gates of Prescott clearing walkers with Tripp, meaning she was more or less threatening him into a refund because one or two bullets messed up on the way to see him and ended up accidentally murdering him when she wouldn't calm down.
I know Eli is essentially an acceptable target(which just makes it worse in my opinion), but at the same time, that's not how life works: you can't just decide to kill people just because you don't like them or their attitude--especially not in a place where you're a visitor on ice. If she was having a problem, she should've called Tripp(or Conrad/Francine if he's busy) and let him do his job by helping settle things. It doesn't help that unused dialogue has her realize that she could hang for doing that.
I realize Telltale pretty much dug themselves a hole with the whole #MyClementine thing, but the Clementine I remember wouldn't have been that blatantly careless with other people's lives.
Yeah, pretty much. Eli himself acknowledge that despite being drunk.
The moment she shot him I was pissed at her so much...even if it was an accident it's because I fucking told her these past 2 seasons to NOT KILL PEOPLE ONLY IF NECESSARY.... But telltale wouldn't want ur choices to matter do they now................................
That had to have literally been the worst written The Walking Dead scene in all of the video games. The writers pretty much put you in a situation with no choice. No one conveniently notices as Eli tries to murder Javier, Clementine acts like a complete tool and flat out murders a man outside of player control. The whole scene was such fucking trash
It was definitely strange that she would shoot a loaded gun at someone when she was taught from the beginning to be safe with guns and they are not a toy. There wasn't a point in her story where she was that careless with someone else's life, so it was OOC for how I played her. It was wrong, and I did not lie for her.
What if AJ now knows how to talk and does this everytime Clem swears?
I know he died, and I know it was at Clem's hands, but who cares? It's the end of the fucking world; boo-hoo, a random scumbag died (who almost got Clem killed). I never said it should be forgettable to kill, but in the world that she lives in, it needs to be easy to kill or she won't survive for long. Yes, it was a shitty thing to happen, but in that world, it's survival of the fittest plain and simple. If you've seen the absolute hell that Clem has gone through, you should understand that killing a man (albeit on accident) that almost got her killed shouldn't bother her at all.
Can you seriously tell me if you were in her shoes you wouldn't have reacted the same way? Clem is remorseful for the people closest to her (obviously only a few people) and ruthless to the ones she could care less about, which is exactly how she needs to act or else she will die. I agree, killing a man must be hard no matter what or who they are, and she should feel at least the tiniest amount of regret, but I seriously don't blame her if she doesn't feel that way.
I wouldn't have been pretending. Motherfucker not only sold me faulty merchandise but then attacked me for calling him out on it? I would've ripped his arm off and beaten him to death with it.
The fact that the world has ended doesn't justify murder or cannot serve as an excuse for killing others.
Following your logic, Clementine could kill people left and right as long as they are insignificant and nameless faces in the crowd. You say this is just a world she has to live now, however that's the very exact reason of why Eli's murder was extremely wrong. The world doesn't revolve around her. The fact that someone is a stranger doesn't mean they can't be a husband/wife, father/mother or just a person important for someone's else, that has their goals, dreams, etc.
After dead started walking, each life is doubly important and playing God - taking lives - is something that you refrain from doing until it's absolutely necessary. It should be number one rule in a young girl's mind, especially after she's been through such horrors.
It's so easy to get lost in the post-apocalyptic reality, especially telling yourself you did what you had to, which is just a misleading, desperate lie. You kill when necessary, for example in self-defense, but it was neither self-defence nor necessary. If she just shrugs shoulders and goes "meh" afterwards, she's gonna do it again, and again, and again, and finally she comes to the point which is impossible for her to go back. She's gonna become a monster that Lee tried his best to protect her from.
I wouldn't. Obviously I'd like to hear his part of the story and maybe even give him a chance to explain himself, and if we butted heads, I would inform people who run Prescott that they are keeping a lying scum under their roof, a person who can get them killed. Because it's a community and they've got their own rules and ways of doing things.
You know, she could've shown Eli his bullets don't fire not by pointing a gun at his face.
Guy deserved it, accident or not. Based on how peace-loving Clem is (or was), it does seem out of character that she doesn't regret it at LEAST a little, but with how the world of TWD treats her, I don't exactly blame her for not really giving a shit.
Clem shooting Eli was reckless and honestly out of character. She was never the type to get mad... or at least to that level. She is usually silent angry... nearly a robot with emotions.
Eli did not try to kill Javier or Clem until Clem pointed a gun with bullets in his face and pulled the trigger. He had a calm down... don't care attitude until that point. Because of that... I don't think he sold her blank bullets on purpose. Clem just lost it and was kenny mode at the time but at least kenny be right.
Clem has never really showed remorse over killing anyone even in the first game except for Lee... kinda... So I think it would be out of character for her to show remorse. Clem has been a borderline psychopath since even the first game. It's just that the innocence is gone... mostly. She only cares about a very select group of people... anybody else she can be borderline evil to.
We as the player love Clem and so we are bais in her favor but she was in the wrong in this particular scene. The game says something like he was a scumbag to the viewer so it seem like Clem isn't a monster... but the way she acted for that whole scene is definitely something a psychopath would do. What is most telling is how fast she went from accidentally killing someone face to protect myself face. It was in the span of like two seconds. Only psychopaths can do stuff like that.
I'd love to see what Lee would say about it
Personally would be funnier with ghost Lee I think, if Clementine ever had a episode where she starts to loose it.
Like when Rick went insane over Lori being dead. But whatever floats your boat.
You're absolutely right that the apocalypse doesn't justify murder, and I know it wasn't a good thing that Clem killed him, but I highly doubt she would ever purposefully murder an unarmed man.
I never said she should be allowed to murder people left and right; what I said was - in a firefight - it's completely fine to kill, seeing as it's considered self-defense. The world she lives in demands survival of the fittest; I didn't mean for it to sound like she's justified in murdering every person she ever meets, but only that she should know how to kill without hesitation if it's absolutely necessary to do so.
Blasphemy!
I know this, as there are multiple points of views (completely different groups) in that world, and seeing those different groups does prove the fact that other people do matter in that world, but survivors killing their enemies is a lot more frequent than it was before the apocalypse, and killing people to survive is the norm in that world. Of course, she should of at least felt a little bad about murdering Eli, but she wasn't emotionally attached to him (she barely is with anyone anymore) that it makes sense she only cared about how to get away with it. After all the people she's lost, can you really blame her?
Debatable.
Only the decent people truly mattered, but nature didn't agree with that: naturally, only the strong -- and those protected by the strong -- survived, who in turn created a stronger generation of people. Don't get me wrong, there are still decent people in that world, but not too many are left.
I agree with the fact that you should only kill when absolutely necessary, and I agree that Clem should think that way (let's be honest: she does... mostly), but after all she's been through -- everyone she's ever loved or known have all died right in front of her eyes -- it has to be hard for her to keep her humanity intact, and for the most part she does.
Throughout the apocalypse, Clem has survived on her own for like 2 and a half years (not straight but in total) of it -- and most people die, even while in groups -- yet a teenager has been able to keep only herself and a baby alive for close to 2 years, and at that point survival is all that matters to her. If what you say is true about Clem becoming a monster that can't stop killing, then she should be that very thing by now, but she isn't. Clem isn't a psychopath, and she won't become a serial killer.
They were arguing for quite a while, and I'm sure he told her his side of the story, which he probably lied about. He gave her faulty bullets that almost got her killed and that alone deserves a bullet to the head (that's a hyperbole if you were wondering).
Eli probably already knew his bullets were faulty and he just didn't care.