The comparisons between S2 Kenny & David and why I disagree- LOSS & BETRAYAL!
People often accuse David of being a rehash of S2 Kenny and I really have to disagree with this. Just to clarify, this isn't to decide who is a better character, I'm just disagreeing with the comparisons.
The main difference between the two is Loss and Betrayel. Whenever David gets angry or acts violently, this is when people make the comparisons. But the thing is David isn't insane. Just hold on before you rush to defend Kenny okay? I'm just saying that in Season 2 after everything Kenny lost he was starting to get a little unstable and going off the deep end. But the thing with David is that he acts this way when he suffers a betrayal and gets enraged by it. If David kills Lonnie it's because he turned against him. At the end of episode 4 if David kills Clint it's because he felt betrayed by the New Frontier. Then episode 5 when David attacks Javi, it's because he feels betrayed as Javi ends up with Kate (obviously he still does it if you didn't but the point is that David thinks you did) Now you could say that when David attacked Fern and killed Rufus he didn't suffer any betrayel. But personally I just think that David felt that he was eliminating a threat, he wasn't acting crazy in any way. So my point is that David isn't the same as Kenny. When he does violent things, it's because he's angry and feels betrayed, obviously loyalty is a big deal with David. With Kenny he starts to go crazy and violent because of all his suffered- Losing Duck, Katjia, getting beat down by Carver and then losing Sarita.
So that's it, I just don't like these comparisons between the two and really disagree with them. Feel free to share your thoughts and let me know if you agree or disagree. 
Comments
david tries to kill his own brother in front of his family and hits his son in the face with a wrench. he's worse than whatever the hell kenny was.
This isn't about whose worse or whose better.
If you were to lineup half of Davids actions and dialogue in EP5 with Kenny in EP5 S2 you can obviously tell they are quite similar. I'm not saying both characters are similar, however telltale did make David into the Kenny 2.0 in EP5.
I'd only really see the David VS Javi similar to the Kenny VS Jane fight and even that was quite different.
David was just out of line. He had no reason to fight Javi, especially if you rejected Kate's feelings. I fought him back, screw that "I love you" choice. David, to me, was just an asshole this whole season. At first I liked him but after this episode I dislike him now.
Kenny had a reason to be angry in Ep.5. Poor guy had lost his family a few years ago, then gets beaten half to death, then his girlfriend dies, then he believes AJ was killed by Jane.
Well, let's see, they're both guys the story constantly says are great, totally deep and complex men who you must hate/love in your love/hate, often at the expense of other characters. So yeah, same thing--the angry dad climax strikes again!
Also, Kenny was upset by what he was tricked into believing was the Loss of AJ and so he attacked Jane for her Betrayal.
I can't even compare Kenny with David. Kenny had good reasons to be angry and David was way out of line, he tried to kill his brother when I just told him that I never touched Kate.
I've seen more people thinking Tripp is a discount Kenny. But now that you say it, I can definitely see what people mean, although I don't agree with people that thinks that.
Tripp is similar with his anger but managed to see logic in episode 5 when he talked to Javier about what he would do if someone threatens his family.
If he is he's a more flawed version of Kenny with less redeemable qualities. The only trait they both share really is hot-headed, which Kenny was as he was more protective than David.
First of all, I would like to thank you for starting an interesting discussion about the actual content of the game that doesn't involve whining about X or Y aspect of the game. They are getting rare these days.
We ( me included ) may have exagerrated the similarities between the two characters. We tend to reduce them to three or four characteristics at best, acting like they are exactly the same...when they are not. Nevertheless, David and Kenny share undeniable similarities and they both stand out as two very interesting characters pretty much for the same reasons.
They are, indeed, both hot-headed idiots with their heart in the right place, both guilty of terrifying their group, both some kids father figure who kind of ''replaced'' the child they think they've lost. They are both convinced their way is ''the'' way to protect everyone's safety. They are both genuinely caring people/protective kind of people. They are also both family oriented ( David himself can call himself a ''soldier'' all he wants, but I, for one, think he values family very very highly ).
When David took care of A.J he thought he had lost Gabe and Marianna. He eventually had to leave him because he cared for him. From David's word himself, A.J was like ''his third child''. David is pretty expressive in terms of facial expressions, the guilt he feels for A.J was all over his face. Kenny is also pretty expressive.
I am not sure I have to explain why Kenny considered both Clementine and A.J as family and cared about them more than anybody else. How obvious is it ?
I already said David just kept on being betrayed and that it was one of the main theme of the game. It was probably even more important for him than it may have been for someone who weren't used to the battlefield. Indeed, soldiers are told unity, loyalty, and cooperation are mandatory to ensure a group's survival. We cannot say either New frontier's community leaders or David's family were an exemple of perfect unity, loyalty and cooperation.
However, it's not because David was betrayed that he didn't lose anything. I am sure, if you were to ask him, he'd say he ''lost'' his vocation, his father, his mother, his uncle, his daughter, his community, his family/his family's trust ( twice in his mind ), his best friend, his brother ( determinant )... basically well... everything ? In a way or another.
Of course, since some of them are alive the loss will be very different than Kenny's. Kenny's loss are very permanent. They are mostly death, over and over again. In any case, just like David's, he loses what he cares about the most. For Kenny, what he cares about the most is his family.
Now their similaties don't mean they go about it the exact same way. In fact, each of these vary of intensity depending on who, of them both, we are talking about.
David is Kate's opposite, as he is very ''selfless''. David and Kate switch opinion in the last episode and it's more than just mood swings from Telltale. Again, It all revolves around betrayal. So, as said before, Loyalty, responsabilities, selflessness those are things David values particularly. The fact the community he took care of was about to watch him get hanged without saying anything ( him, the security leader, so responsable of THEIR security ) over something he knew was false, may not have convinced him to protect them from further arm. Especially when his own men blame his family for what happened and decide to defend Joan instead.
However, Kate cares about her guilt because she thinks SHE armed the community. She wants atonement. She had no concerns for what would become of this community or any other community, before she started feeling guilty about what happened.
David took care of the community before, for no other reason than the fact he was ''perfect for the job''.
When he learned about Joan's raids he wanted to ''make things right'' and, obviously, to confront her for doing these morally questionable things behind his back.
It takes us to another important point :
David has strong moral codes :
His strong moral codes are the reason why Joan never allowed Max to tell David about the raids.
David takes care of people until they fuck him over. Kate doesn't take care of people unless her own tranquility is involved.
David cares about justice and all that shit.
When his dad has cancer he thinks it's important for the family to know. He cares more about Kate and Gabe's safety than his own. He thinks stealing from other communities his morally wrong. He thinks Javier missing his dads death is a big deal. He thinks Javier never visitting except from the time he got broke and needed some place to stay is wrong and so on...
Kenny ? Kenny mostly cares about his ''family' ( 'season 1 : Katjaa Duck; season 2 : Clementine, A.J ). He also cares for the people who are actively ensuring his family's safety. He is not a bad guy, that's not what I am trying to say. In fact Kenny too grew to be selfless when it ends up to life and death situations ( cf Ben ). I wouldn't say however that it's a ''defining'' and important characteristic of his character.
Kenny is a family man, David has soldiers strong moral codes.
Kenny doesn't help the guy Duck caused the death of back in the earliest episodes. Kenny will leave Lee to die if you help Lilly with Larry. He won't help with Clementine if you didn't side with him enough... You get the idea, Kenny is, overall, a very stubborn character.
You'll have to go very far to get David to leave someone to die. It will need well... some kind of betrayal and not in the ''I didn't want to destroy someone's brain with a salt lick in front of his daughter, even though it may or may not have been the right thing to do'' kind.
When David is worried for his children, he will give them strict oders and talk to them like he would to lower ranked soldiers. He'll give useful advices and be logic oriented. Even before the apocalypse David had a strong idea of what Gabe/a Man should be or shouldn't be... The fact he was bitter about ''Prince Javi'' situation ( to quote him ) didn't help. It had some important consequences on Gabe's development and personnality. Gabe kept that in mind and still has a strong opinion on what a good son/bad son is or a real man. He wants to appear capable in everyone's eyes.
I remember Kenny as being way softer with Clem... I think he would have wanted Duck, Clem and A.J to keep their innocence and wouldn't want them to mature too fast. Kenny will mostly get angry at those who endanger them and/or do not protect them instead of at them for endangering their own life. Even with Ben who's not in the ''family'' he'll eventually see him as ''just a kid''.
It's not a way to try and say anyone is ''better'' than anyone. David's soldier backround shaped him as a person. Kenny having a son such as Duck, who probably needs more attention than Clem, and having his family since the beginning of the apocalypse heavely shaped him in another way.
That's the whole point of them having different backstory.
Sure, they can both be pragmatic and sensitive but David will mostly act because of a certain moral code one disrespected or a ''safety first'' soldier logic when Kenny will do it because of his feelings for his family sometimes knowingly endangering people's safety.
David and Kenny were both unstable and had some kind of emotional breakdown in the end.
David lost it because of the multiple loss/betrayal he went through, a jealousy he always felt for his brother, as well as, I suppose, a PTSD he still keeps even if you keep him alive.
Kenny did because of the multiple loss he went through and the way everyone kept on treating him.
Their fight with Javier and Jane were both the result of countless ''little things'' that aren't solely Javier and Jane's fault.
The only thing they have in common is that their concept of family seems wicked and destructive.
I would say David is far worse than Kenny. He scares his own family and hits his son more than once, one time with a wrench and he didn't even care. Kenny never did anything like that to Duck. Also Kenny's anger got worse over time, while David's always seem to be there from the start.
Agreed.
IIRC, Kenny could be reasoned with, and if somebody made a decision for the group, he stuck with it, save for the saltlick and stealing from the Stranger. He chose to try to save Ben even after Ben had a hand in losing him everything. Kenny is rash and looks out for himself first, but there were times where he was shown to have his heart in the right place.
David is different in that he will not tolerate other people going against his plans or desires. He sees people as soldiers to be commanded. I don't see any way that he would save Ben, and when the group went against his desire for violent revenge, he took it upon himself to escalte it to that point even though it would put the whole group in danger.
My point is, Ken is a much more reasonable man, and looks out for his people more than wanting to be in charge of them.
I wouldn't say Kenny can be reasoned with. No matter how much you beg him not to he still murders Jane. Or if you beg him not to kill Carver, he still does it.
Well, Kenny had his reasons. David tries to kill Javier even if you never touched Kate's lips, he was trying to kill him for NOTHING, he can't even accept the fact that he says "I love you".
I'm not comparing or trying to say one character is better than the other (Though everyone seems to think that that's exactly what I'm doing) I was just pointing out that Kenny really isn't at all willing to listen to reason. More often than not he demands that things go his way and refuses to listen to anyone elses plan. The only real time that things didn't go Kenny's way is if Clem refuses to go into Wellington. EDIT: Or if Lee doesn't drop Ben.
This. Kenny became an angry, unlikable asshole over time; David was always a petty, abusive asshole.
David is a soldier and was jealous of his dashing brother !
Kenny is not at all a jealous person, nor a soldier, the only thing that these 2 had in commun it is that they are hot blood which love their kid(s)
I never saw David as a remake version of Kenny, Kenny would never have joined a group like new frontiere