Bigger psychopath: Lily in Season 1 or Shane in the TV series?
Both went psycho on their group and have killed a member of their group Carly/Doug and Randall. But which do you think was a bigger threat? Lily in the Games or Shane in the TV series?
Also do you think letting Randall free from being held hostage was a smart thing to think about doing? Or was Shane right?
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Still haven't watched the TV show, but I'd definitely say Shane from what little I've heard/seen.
To be fair Shane only goes insane because Lori keeps being inconsistent and pushing him hell she even tells Rick to Kill Shane then curses at Rick for killing him later.
Dude, like, spoilers and stuff.
Why would you go into here and not expect spoilers? Season 2 of the show was released like five-six years ago.
Sorry dabig thought you had watched it already .
Damn it, I liked both of them
And I wouldn't say they went "psycho" - both of them had literally nobody left in their lives as far as they were aware. Lilly with her dad, and Shane with Lori/Carl (and an extension Rick, I suppose). Both of them were clearly feeling increasingly alienated from their respective groups, ended up looking as though they were the odd ones out that everybody else wanted to avoid, and then ended up lashing out with all the weight of their situations crashing down around them. Honestly though, I think this really made them some of the most fascinating characters the Walking Dead ever produced.
So while I really wouldn't use that term (since if you're basing it off of killing other group members, you could also put people like Kenny, Lee and Rick onto that list - though I know that's not what you mean), I'd probably have to say Shane's overall mental state went downhill more than Lilly's did. Lilly, for all intents and purposes, shot Carly (and tried to shoot Ben if you chose Doug) because of things like stress, paranoia, the desperation of their situation, and the fact that she believed that one of their own people had been giving the bandits supplies. She was right about Ben after all incidentally, but I'd argue that with a little more help (and if we had the opportunity to try and do so), that situation might've been avoided. Hell, if people (such as myself) were getting really worried about the woman, then maybe having one more chat could've opened up some more dialogue and gone a long way to helping Lilly heal and realize that there were still some people who cared; Lee and Clem in particular.
But then again, with how stubborn she could sometimes be, maybe she wouldn't have wanted that. Maybe it would've felt too much like "coddling", as she mentioned before.
Shane's problems may have reached a boiling point with Otis, but it was really his relationship with Lori as well as Rick's return that really kicked everything off. He became obsessed with Lori and Carl, believing in his own mind that Rick was not only incapable of protecting them, but that his presence there was tearing things apart. Shane was jealous of the family dynamic that Rick had, and it drove him to some pretty dark places; culminating in the fight they had at the junkyard and the standoff they had out in the field.
Shooting somebody for thinking they fucked their whole group over is one thing, but trying to kill your best friend after sleeping with their wife is another.
Just felt like giving my two cents on something I'm vaguely familiar with.
No, still haven't found the time/source. I was half joking anyway, though.
Shane was pretty inconsistently written imo so it's hard to say just how crazy he was. After killing the fat dude during the supply run for no reason (to protect himself from the walkers is BS as he had time to scrap with the guy for a good while before they caught up), he is later seen shaving his head and looking completely batshit insane, yet after that ep he seems pretty normal at times when the plot wanted him to be from what I remember.
Having said that, still probably Shane though. He has a higher body count and was crazier for longer. Lilly's crazyness was a slow decline and started with the death of Larry.
Shane was crazy. Lilly just thought she was going crazy and may have accidentally killed whoever.
Shane gave himself a new haircut so he could start anew, just like Clem.
Well, more like the despair and paranoia she had building for a while finally reached a point where she shot Carley for getting a little too brazen at the wrong moment or accidentally shot Doug after he noticed her just saying fuck it and trying to execute Ben on the spot.
yeah but she wasn't paranoid she was right. Someone was stealing from the group.
And that was making her more paranoid(Paranoia involves intense anxious or fearful feelings and thoughts often related to persecution, threat, or conspiracy). She didn't actually know who was doing or how they doing it but the extra stress on top of having to look her dad's murderer(s) in the eye everyday and feeling that she might not have anyone who cares in the group was causing her to become a bit unhinged.
I felt Lilly was more justiified in her breakdown than Shane was. Shane started seeing killing as the best option, whereas Lilly killed someone in the heat of the moment during an extremely stessful situation.
As much as I like both characters, Shane was a lot more mental than Lily was and had more reason to do what she did. She had just lost her father to someone she was in constant debate with. Her home the motor inn was under attack by rapists and murderers and was losing supplies to stay alive. Shane started to go nuts when Rick returned as he thought his purpose (Lori and Carl) was being ripped away from him). Shane also did a lot more insane shit then Lily did as we only saw Lily act insane once with Carley.
Shane from TV series, most definitely.
I fucking hated the whole Shane/Rick debaucle, literally the plot of that season was: Rick is an idiot, but he does everything he can to be a goody twoshoe person, even help Hershel herd walkers, and everyone loves Rick, whereas Shane is this demonized "crazy person", who everybody hates, because he does some hard shit, but out of the two, Shane seems way smarter and reasonable in some cases, if I was Shane, I would also go crazy if everyone treated me like I was some sort of demon for trying to do the safe thing, not to mention, from season 3 till 5 (havent seen 6 and 7 yet, as theyre not available in my country yet), Rick literally does a bunch of the same shit that everyone was demonizing Shane for doing, but suddenly he is a hero and everyone should praise him, while Shane was a crazy person
Wtf kind of question is that? Of course Shane is more insane! Insane Shane!!!
The tv version of Shane was developed a lot more than the comic version. The comic version definitely was more insane than Lilly. The tv version I would rate about the same as Lilly. They both broke following the loss of their established family units.
I'm not insane!
First of all, none of them were psychopaths, none of them went ''psycho''.
It's a complete misunderstanding of their characters to think they lacked empathy to the point of fitting the psychopath description. I have had psychopaths as favorite characters and I have had characters who broke because they suffered. Both Lilly and Shane are part of the latter category.
I am willing to answer who's the one that seemed closer to the ''beyond saving'' state. The same will be done with the question of who is the one who was a bigger threat.
Shane was the one who was closer to the beyond saving state. However, they both ultimately were even when it comes to threats.
Shane's main turning point wasn't only when Rick came back, it was the night he killed Otis. Both Rick and Shane used to work in the field of law enforcement. As partner's, it was their job to ensure the communities survival while following strict orders to limitate casualties. Both used to do it together and Shane kept going as Rick were thought dead. Rick's return wasn't solely negative for the group but some of the decisions he made clearly endangered people. Solutions Shane proposed, at times, may have prevented some unecessary deaths. Shane definitly cared for Lori and Carl, but more than spending time with them he cared about their survival. If Shane is so loud and insistant when he thinks something is a bad idea that's definitly because he cares.
When Rick came back for Merle with half of the group's weapon and almost all of the people who could shoot, after Glenn's car made enough sound for walkers from miles to hear, he said he thought it was a bad Idea but Rick didn't care.
When Shane pointed out it was time to stop searching for Sophia because she was probably dead and Daryl almost lost his life looking for her Rick didn't listen.
Shane is the one who teached the group how to shoot, so how to defend themselves. He was also the one who protected Hershell barn by killing the walkers who stayed a few feet from them. And even when his actions were the reasons Sophia was ''found'', he felt guilty and apologized to Carol. What does it mean if not that he cares about her too. He cares about Andrea when he tries to turn her into a capable member of the group. He cares about Daryl who wasn't a fan of him when the fact Daryl almost died was the reason he brought up to stop looking for Sophia. Shane cared a lot; Psychopath don't.
Shane didn't only ''think'' he was a better leader than Rick. Shane was, in fact, a better decision maker than Rick was. What Shane lacked is a control of his emotions as well as a capacity of dealing with the aftermath of those decisions. Rick knew Shane wouldn't be able to live with the fact he killed his best friend. I don't even sincerely think Shane went there having in mind to kill Rick rather than die himself. Because if Shane cared about ''people'' he cared about Rick the most. That must sound ridiculous since he definitly thought about killing him prior this episode but that's the truth.
Shane was too far gone because he had no support except from Andrea. He couldn't talk to his best friend about how hurt he felt for losing Lori and Carl because it's his family. He couldn't talk to him about what he did to Otis because Rick wasn't able to understand it was the best decision at the time. He couldn't talk about being lonely because they saw him as ''crazy'' and ''evil'' instead of trying to understand his perspective on things. Shane was very right and very logic most of the time. He was just very emotional too and I am sure it's something he has always been, so even if the decision he made were pragmatic and moral in a utilitarist standpoint, they didn't feel like such, and people just kept on making it sound like they weren't.
Lilly was similar to Shane because she also felt like it was her job to take care of the group. She also had people questioning the pragmatic decision she made everyday...Without any support except from Larry's and...maybe Lee's. For Lilly as well; loneliness and, therefore, the inabillity to open up about the tons of feelings she had, ultimately led her to reach the breaking point. Everyday she had to pick who ate and who didn't, and for a long time the groups she tried to take care of did nothing but judge her for her temperament rather than try to understand her.
When Lilly says she has a bad feeling about leaving the motel they went to the barn anyway. When Lilly suspected someone in the group was stealing supplies from them she feared she couldn't tell anyone because she didn't know who to trust anymore ( except from Lee ).
Her established family was Larry and even if he wasn't the best at it he was the only one in canon who would systematically support her and have her back. When she lost that, it's understandable she snapped.
Both Shane and Lilly snapped when the group they tried to save was put in danger. Lilly because of Ben, Shane because of Randall.
Carley's insults toward Lilly were ridiculous but it was probably what most of the group could feel about her at times. She had enough of those, she clearly wasn't in the mood to recieve any of them. I think Lilly would have eventually calmed down if she had stayed. I think Shane, however, would have only turned out worst and worst as time passed. Lilly might get angry but she isn't ''that'' impatient and ''that'' overwhelmed by her emotions 99% of the time. Shane was.
What Lilly did was probably never gonna happen again, Shane would have gotten angry at Rick for as long as Rick kept ignoring his sides of things to make bad decisions instead.
Shane's death was one of the reason Rick became a better leader. It was what Shane wanted from him that night, to be able to take the difficult decisions and to prove he could take care of his family. If Shane was alive after Lori hinted the baby might have been his, he wouldn't have been able to handle anymore stupid decisions from Rick, who, I remind you, took his place as a leader quite naturally. Shane alive means Rick didn't kill him. Rick doesn't kill him means Rick doesn't change. Rick doesn't change means Shane gets angrier.
Agreed. Lilly was under so much stress. After the death of her father, Kenny (and detrimental Lee) still won't stop fighting with her at every turn. She's trying her best to keep everyone alive. If the bandits didn't show up right after confirmation of supplies being stolen, I don't think she would have snapped to that degree. It was the last straw for her. It's unforgivable what she did, but you can tell how much she regretted her actions afterwards. Shane goes crazy over time with very little happening to provoke it. Rick, his supposed best friend returns after Shane slept with Lori. It was wrong that he did it in the first place, yet in his mind Rick ruined everything for him. He starts acting out and defying Rick's every move basically out of jealousy. It's just so much more unacceptable imo. And it happens over a pretty long period of time.
Killed a member of the group? Checked.
Did he attack other members of his group? Checked.
Was he obsessed with something? Checked.
Kenny was bigger psycho.
I don't think I'd necessarily say either of them were psychopaths. They had basically let the stress get to them and they got fed up. More so Shane than Lilly as Lilly did what she did (in her own mind) for the group as she was convinced there was a traitor and they had to go. "I was trying to protect all of us." With Shane the main thing was that he was happy with Lori and Carl but then it felt like Rick just came back took it away from him. "I'm a better father than you Rick, I can be here and I'll for them but you come back here and just destroy everything!" The other thing was that Rick was so damn moral in the first two seasons and Shane felt that he was risking their lives by doing the wrong thing so he could stand by his morals. "It ain't hard man, the right choice is the one that keeps us alive!" So the thing with Shane was that he felt that Rick took everything from him and that he was a better father and a better leader than Rick.
When will people stop shitting in my favourite character?
no
you're
inshane
tee hee hee you funny!
Lily had no reason to do what she did. Shane killing Odis was fucking selfish and prickish. But he did it to get to the truck and save him to bring supplies to his group, but he does go insane afterwards. Lily was just mad so she shot someone. Lily isn't justified, neither Shane.
I wouldn't say either of them were justified in basic instance, however when compared with one another Lily had more reason to act out and be the way she was than Shane
If people think Shane is crazy, then they're a hypocrite if they don't think Rick is right now.
Rick essentially turned into Shane, but just much further into the story.
I always wondered how things would've gone had they not tried to kill each other back then, and the both of them were still leading side by side.
None is psycopath
I'd say Season 5 was Rick's breaking point after they escape Terminus.
It probably wouldn't work out. Eventually they'd start fighting over the group and what to do. Especially if Shane was there during Negan's plot line.