To be fair, Ben's was changed before his first appearance was completed and available, while Nick had been around for multiple episodes. How… moreever, given he doesn't/couldn't say/do much during In Harm's Way, it was still an option they could've taken.
What I meant is that A House Divided made him determinant right before the episode where not only was the Cabin Group's secrets were supposed to be revealed(her her), which was also the episode that had to juggle 22+ characters in roughly 90 minutes, with no established personal beef with Carver like the other 5 or most of what was relevant to his character dealt with. Add in the change in writers, Nick Breckon's plans either not being available or being ignored, and the increased focus on building up the rivalry between Luke and Kenny and it's clear why he barely said, much less did anything in the episode--there wasn't much material or room for him at that point!
Then in an episode that wa… [view original content]
Pretty much. You can definitely read between the lines of what was set up in the earlier episodes vs. what ended up happening in Season 2.5 to get an idea of what they wanted to do with/without staff commentary and while that's better than nothing, it's still a lot of disappointment that could've been avoided for the most part.
TWDazehnuu said:
It at least tried to stick to the Telltale formula which made S1 good, despite not doing so as well, instead of ditching it altogether as an attempt to become a wanna-be TV show.
That seems a little revisionist. Season 2 was what started some of the complaints people had about Telltale's current direction, with the removal of extensive hubs/puzzles and the focus on shorter episodes/streamlined gameplay.
The story is consistent. All the plot points that are brought up, get resolved in one way or another.
Uh, yeah, no, not really.
… more You can't really play as serious Javi or evil Javi in ANF because the choices aren't written for that.
Eh...you can go either with this, honestly. Hell, you can play Lee as a scumbag but he'll still ultimately earn the group's loyalty and die having freed Clementine and taught her how to survive.
There are no random AK-47s appearing out of nowhere just at the right time in Season 2.
When exactly was this?
In ANF endings depends on what Clem does, but it very unclear what influences her choice, and there is just no option to "tell her what to do", even if she trusts you. Having Clem trust you is actually worse, becuaase you can save less characters with it.
And this is one of the exact reasons I haven't bothered to fully complete the episode myself and don't really car… [view original content]
The murder of George (the guy Carver brings up while talking to Alvin in 203) and the shootout Clem saw the bodies from in Episode 201 were never really elaborated on that much.
Season 2 has a lot of problems on it's own, but when compared to ANF, it is superior in many different ways:
* You play as Clem, a char… moreacter from a previous game. Playing as Clem is a logical continuation of the story. Clementine in ANF brings no value to the story, she is just there for fan service. And since she is an NPC now, she often may act OOC, inconsistent with your Clementine from Season 2.
* The Episodes are longer. They are not long enough, but at least they are relatively long. ANF Episodes are jokingly short.
* The story is consistent. All the plot points that are brought up, get resolved in one way or another.
* Amount of plotholes is much smaller. There are no random AK-47s appearing out of nowhere just at the right time in Season 2.
* More options for roleplay. Your Clem can be kind and caring, or she can be strong and independent, or she can be evil and edgy. It's your choice how you want to play her. You can't r… [view original content]
Actually, I'm pretty sure it is very briefly summarized in a determinant line: if Kenny got Alvin killed at the Lodge, remind Bonnie that Carver killed him. Add in some of the things Rebecca, Alvin, and Carver hint at regarding him and you can put a very vague idea together of they're situation even if it isn't particularly detailed.
Still, wish we could've gotten that from Rebecca or Carver themselves.
The murder of George (the guy Carver brings up while talking to Alvin in 203) and the shootout Clem saw the bodies from in Episode 201 were never really elaborated on that much.
Luke's AK was the one Jane gave to Bonnie after she betrayed Troy. And Buricko/Vitali's situation was due to the names/models getting swapped around at some point.
Season 2 had a more logical confrontation with the main bad guys until you discover Arvo. Second season had Kenny a more reasonable and the most likeable version of Clementine at least to me and a rewind feature designed to prevent playthroughs of the entire season or episode just to get to a particular point in the story from altered choices for starters.
A New Frontier has mostly awful flashbacks for big season 2 choices and characters..everyone's pissed at you for eating their pudding and taking their gas without asking that you had no idea was possibly theirs. And the no reason hot headed and jealous brother whom had a hot wife and kids while your still single and got canned from your great career with nothing else yet he's jealous of you because you can play baseball.
Unlike Carver who had motives and reasons Joan was more so evil just because.. like some Looney toon villain. I doubt Carver would go back on his word and still execute Ava or Tripp. That choice was a Tripp. Pun intended.
Unlike Carver who had motives and reasons Joan was more so evil just because.. like some Looney toon villain.
It was the other way around at first. Then the rewrites happened and Joan got Titan fueled blood transfusion from him between episodes(which is pretty much under an hour or two, btw).
Now both of them are egotistical psychos. The only difference is that Joan didn't coerce her friend's spouse so she can knock them up.
I doubt Carver would go back on his word and still execute Ava or Tripp.
"I came to see how the new girls are working out."
* a few seconds later *
"You had a task and you didn't get it done."(Which doesn't make any sense, but whatever.)
"Don't worry Bill, we'll get it done."
"Time's up, Reggie!"
Season 2 had a more logical confrontation with the main bad guys until you discover Arvo. Second season had Kenny a more reasonable and the … moremost likeable version of Clementine at least to me and a rewind feature designed to prevent playthroughs of the entire season or episode just to get to a particular point in the story from altered choices for starters.
A New Frontier has mostly awful flashbacks for big season 2 choices and characters..everyone's pissed at you for eating their pudding and taking their gas without asking that you had no idea was possibly theirs. And the no reason hot headed and jealous brother whom had a hot wife and kids while your still single and got canned from your great career with nothing else yet he's jealous of you because you can play baseball.
Unlike Carver who had motives and reasons Joan was more so evil just because.. like some Looney toon villain. I doubt Carver would go back on his word and still execute Ava or Tripp. That choice was a Tripp. Pun intended.
Carver's rationale behind Reggie was that he was a weak disabled and incompetent member even still they both can just exile folks from the group not kill them unless they're a immediate threat. Joan didn't really have much reason to kill Ava or Tripp other than to torment Javier and she attempted to murder David when she could of just exiled them all. These villains need so much more substance in these games. One last chance for them to nail it somehow but it seems unlikely. You mentioned something about a wicked Clem counterpart in the last game or reverse Lee, which could be interesting.. well on paper atleast..
Unlike Carver who had motives and reasons Joan was more so evil just because.. like some Looney toon villain.
It was the other way a… moreround at first. Then the rewrites happened and Joan got Titan fueled blood transfusion from him between episodes(which is pretty much under an hour or two, btw).
Now both of them are egotistical psychos. The only difference is that Joan didn't coerce her friend's spouse so she can knock them up.
I doubt Carver would go back on his word and still execute Ava or Tripp.
"I came to see how the new girls are working out."
* a few seconds later *
"You had a task and you didn't get it done."(Which doesn't make any sense, but whatever.)
"Don't worry Bill, we'll get it done."
"Time's up, Reggie!"
Carver's rationale behind Reggie was that he was a weak disabled and incompetent member
And not white. And as we all know, anyone who is disadvantaged in any way must be abused and killed off unless they're white(and whatever Jane is).
Fuck Season 2.5, maaan! Especially the Scruffy Carver Tennessee Ranger in a shit colored coat and the Edgy Self Insert "Feminist" Lesbian known as Peggy Jane.
even still they both can just exile folks from the group not kill them unless they're a immediate threat. Joan didn't really have much reason to kill Ava or Tripp and attempt to murder David when she could of just exiled them all.
Very fuckin true.
TtW!Joan at least wanted to teach Javier a lesson about betrayal(?) by making him gamble again. Which was a great twist and a neat concept for a villain for him; the problem is that it's Joan doing it.
You mentioned something about a wicked Clem counterpart in the last game or reverse Lee, which could be interesting.. well on paper atleast..
Fuck yeah, Huckleberry!
Reverse Lee was someone else and honestly I feel like that's been done enough, with or without the Stranger.
Carver's rationale behind Reggie was that he was a weak disabled and incompetent member even still they both can just exile folks from the g… moreroup not kill them unless they're a immediate threat. Joan didn't really have much reason to kill Ava or Tripp other than to torment Javier and she attempted to murder David when she could of just exiled them all. These villains need so much more substance in these games. One last chance for them to nail it somehow but it seems unlikely. You mentioned something about a wicked Clem counterpart in the last game or reverse Lee, which could be interesting.. well on paper atleast..
I'd say primarily to feeling like an actual continuation of the series, apart from that it was honestly terrible story and character wise but at least it was pretty.
I'd settle for a reverse Clem more than a reverse Lee because it's in some ways like a what if scenario about if Clementine dropped all her morals and values then embraced the darker path sort of basically what Carver was talking about. Just like Sarah was a bit like a what if Clem didn't get any training for survival and was shielded from most all the horrors of their world until too late. But my issue with that is New Frontier Clementine was nearly close to being like a anti-Clem compared to how Clem use to be. She changed drastically from the previous seasons that this concept has been explored already a little.
Carver's rationale behind Reggie was that he was a weak disabled and incompetent member
And not white. And as we all know, anyone wh… moreo is disadvantaged in any way must be abused and killed off unless they're white(and whatever Jane is).
Fuck Season 2.5, maaan! Especially the Scruffy Carver Tennessee Ranger in a shit colored coat and the Edgy Self Insert "Feminist" Lesbian known as Peggy Jane.
even still they both can just exile folks from the group not kill them unless they're a immediate threat. Joan didn't really have much reason to kill Ava or Tripp and attempt to murder David when she could of just exiled them all.
Very fuckin true.
TtW!Joan at least wanted to teach Javier a lesson about betrayal(?) by making him gamble again. Which was a great twist and a neat concept for a villain for him; the problem is that it's Joan doing it.
You mentioned something about a wicked Clem counterpart in the last game o… [view original content]
Luke's AK was the one Jane gave to Bonnie after she betrayed Troy. And Buricko/Vitali's situation was due to the names/models getting swapped around at some point.
Hell, you can play Lee as a scumbag but he'll still ultimately earn the group's loyalty and die having freed Clementine and taught her how to survive.
But there is an option to play as a scumbag. And it works. My Lee was evil as fuck, and it felt good. Plus, all the surviving characters (except Ben I think) can get mad at Lee and refuse to help at the end of Episode 4. It depends on how you treated them.
When exactly was this?
Episode 5, if you choose to go save Richmond, there are just two guns lying in the corner, and Javi is like "Oh look. we will need these". They aren't there if you go after Gabe, or Javi doesn't notice them. They are just there as a plot point.
The story is consistent. All the plot points that are brought up, get resolved in one way or another.
Uh, yeah, no, not really.
… more You can't really play as serious Javi or evil Javi in ANF because the choices aren't written for that.
Eh...you can go either with this, honestly. Hell, you can play Lee as a scumbag but he'll still ultimately earn the group's loyalty and die having freed Clementine and taught her how to survive.
There are no random AK-47s appearing out of nowhere just at the right time in Season 2.
When exactly was this?
In ANF endings depends on what Clem does, but it very unclear what influences her choice, and there is just no option to "tell her what to do", even if she trusts you. Having Clem trust you is actually worse, becuaase you can save less characters with it.
And this is one of the exact reasons I haven't bothered to fully complete the episode myself and don't really car… [view original content]
They didn't come out of nowehere. There was an established character Arvo with established connection to his sister (and possibly more people). Arvo knew about Clem's group and told the Russians, who set up an ambush.
because season 2 had 6 characters that i found interesting overrall and thought were good: Kenny,Luke,Bonnie ,Jane ((before the final choice i loved the person and character currently i hate her as a person but still love her character)) and also Carver ((Pretty decent villain too bad he died so early.)) while in ANF there were only 2 characters that i cared about: Gabe and David ((I used to like Kate at the start but she just got worse and worse during and after Above the Law.))
EDIT: Also Sarah for some reason i completely forgot about her lol.
Because Season 2 actually felt like a continuation from the previous season. It at least tried to stick to the Telltale formula which made S1 good, despite not doing so as well, instead of ditching it altogether as an attempt to become a wanna-be TV show. And most importantly, it maintained that gritty atmosphere which makes you feel so immersed; it's hard to explain. ANF just felt so corny.
And on a personal level, Kenny.
This! THIS! Sums it up perfectly though i would have been more harsh about S3
The murder of George (the guy Carver brings up while talking to Alvin in 203) and the shootout Clem saw the bodies from in Episode 201 were never really elaborated on that much.
I actually find it worse... marginally.
The pacing was abysmal and not one single piece of information was learned throughout Season 2, n… moreothing pertinent anyway. Season 2 starts with Clem alone in the woods or with one person and ends with her alone in the woods or with one person.
Beyond that, although the character interactions were arguably worse in ANF, nothing genuine came from interacting with the stupid, marginally-above-the-mentally-retarded-IQ-level characters S2 constantly slung at you throughout 7 hours of total game time before giggling and giving you multiple shitty endings.
It was glib, depressing, uninteresting, unpleasant, boring, and an overall inane fare of sloppy writing, pacing, and structure.
The only thing that Season 2 had that continued on from season 1 was Clementine and then the return of Kenny, and even then, both characters were altered differently to how they were in season 1. Christa and Omid were killed of right at the start (Yes, i know we didn't see Christa die, but i highly doubt she will return). It also got rid of hubs and puzzles which made the new characters hard to form connections with like season 1 because there wasn't enough scenes to create those relationships. Season 2 was mainly about Clementine and Kenny, where as Season 1, we played as Lee and guided Clementine, but we also had major storylines towards the other characters and besides Carley's death to shock the fans, all of the characters who got killed had a meaning behind it, unlike season 2 with you trying your hardest to help Sarah, only to have her die regardless and in stupid ways or trying to help Nick build himself up again, only to have him as a background character after episode 2 and then die off screen. And then Arvo shooting Clementine and Arvo, Mike and Bonnie running off and we never hear of them again. Season 2 was a mess and it had good moments, but it was season 2 that started the downhill of quality in the walking dead series and the short episodes as well. They wrote themselves into a wall by having so many different endings, that they had no choice, but to bring a new story into the series. I personally believe that they could've kept going, but with the amount of different endings, they didn't have the motivation or drive to put a lot of work into a season 3 that was based of the endings of season 2. Still, i enjoyed ANF, it will never top Season 1, but it is a lot better than people claim it isn't. ANF got mostly negative reviews because Clementine wasn't the player character, if she wasn't in season 2 , i would put money down that most fans would've hated it a lot more then ANF.
It also got rid of hubs and puzzles which made the new characters hard to form connections with like season 1 because there wasn't enough scenes to create those relationships.
It didn't get rid of them, just use them fairly sparsely and really halfass most of the ones we did get.
"Say Sarah, how do you feel about Nick exercising poor gun control by shooting that guy on the bridge? And where would you stand regarding your dad wanting to kick his hickey ass to the curb?"
* Useless button clicks on Sarah's face *
"Wisdom for the ages."
The only thing that Season 2 had that continued on from season 1 was Clementine and then the return of Kenny, and even then, both characters… more were altered differently to how they were in season 1. Christa and Omid were killed of right at the start (Yes, i know we didn't see Christa die, but i highly doubt she will return). It also got rid of hubs and puzzles which made the new characters hard to form connections with like season 1 because there wasn't enough scenes to create those relationships. Season 2 was mainly about Clementine and Kenny, where as Season 1, we played as Lee and guided Clementine, but we also had major storylines towards the other characters and besides Carley's death to shock the fans, all of the characters who got killed had a meaning behind it, unlike season 2 with you trying your hardest to help Sarah, only to have her die regardless and in stupid ways or trying to help Nick build himself up again, only to have him as a… [view original content]
And the season 2 characters took a bit hit because of it. Obviously Clementine and Kennys roles overshadowed them, but they lack of development from getting rid of things that help that part of the game didn't help.
It also got rid of hubs and puzzles which made the new characters hard to form connections with like season 1 because there wasn't enough sc… moreenes to create those relationships.
It didn't get rid of them, just use them fairly sparsely and really halfass most of the ones we did get.
"Say Sarah, how do you feel about Nick exercising poor gun control by shooting that guy on the bridge? And where would you stand regarding your dad wanting to kick his hickey ass to the curb?"
* Useless button clicks on Sarah's face *
"Wisdom for the ages."
And the season 2 characters took a bit hit because of it. Obviously Clementine and Kennys roles overshadowed them, but they lack of development from getting rid of things that help that part of the game didn't help.
Sarah will remember that
Not really. I think it's generally agreed Joan was just a flat-out terrible character who did next to nothing, and Telltale tried to push the "morally ambiguous" angle with David even while he kept pulling some of the most reprehensible shit seen on the series so far. Carver was a refreshingly honest asshole in comparison.
Clearly, you've never been mad at a family man then. That's very realistic and it's in character.
No, it's not. At least not in the way the writers chose to portray it. Gabe might have had conflicted emotions about his father, but none of that came across in the actual episode. His constant switching between hating and loving David had no transition, no organic process. As a result, most viewers got the impression Gabe was simply a flaky idiot instead of a son who loved his dad despite all of his flaws.
The story is consistent. All the plot points that are brought up, get resolved in one way or another.
Uh, yeah, no, not really.
… more You can't really play as serious Javi or evil Javi in ANF because the choices aren't written for that.
Eh...you can go either with this, honestly. Hell, you can play Lee as a scumbag but he'll still ultimately earn the group's loyalty and die having freed Clementine and taught her how to survive.
There are no random AK-47s appearing out of nowhere just at the right time in Season 2.
When exactly was this?
In ANF endings depends on what Clem does, but it very unclear what influences her choice, and there is just no option to "tell her what to do", even if she trusts you. Having Clem trust you is actually worse, becuaase you can save less characters with it.
And this is one of the exact reasons I haven't bothered to fully complete the episode myself and don't really car… [view original content]
Michelle is definitely a Starter Villain and pretty unique/offbeat one to boot. So much so that her barely 10 minutes of screentime somehow makes her a more impactful and personal antagonist than the other two and honestly makes me wish they'd done more with her.
Call it indirect Hype Backlash or not, but Carver is honestly one of my most hated characters for the wrong reasons. He was apparently set up as this morally ambiguous bad guy who the Cabin Group has this complicated personal history with, which not only goes undelivered upon but completely flies out the window the moment you see him in person and probably even before that. He honestly just came off an egotistical psychopath and an insufferable smug tyrant who just uses Darwinism as an excuse to control, hurt, and dick with people, occasionally both at once.
I don't really count Troy since he's really just a dickish minion who doesn't really do more than what Carver expects of him and then barely even that.
And while Arvo grew on me over time, he's almost firmly in Designated Villain territory and doesn't really do much anything antagonistic until his final scene, most of which was more forced than it should've been, somewhat unnecessary, and shirks what actually could've been done with his character.
Max is a bizarre case of a character being given the room to be more than what he could've been and then getting cut out when there was more that could've been done with him. He had a motivation and personal code that humanized him, but still had a hand in some things that not only made him still a bit of an antagonist but it also caused his to risk putting a strain on his relationships. His character was thus the subject of an interesting choice that put him in a position to grow as a character, but he simply disappeared from the story before anything more could be done with his character.
Badger was almost universally despised for better or worse, which is both his purpose for existing and a result of how blatantly weak a character and/or plot device he is.
I personally really like Joan initially, given she actually had an understandable motivation that made her truly morally grey . But then her character underwent a drastic shift in personality and she was suddenly reduced to just an avarious politician rather than being a comfortable middle ground from start to finish. The fact that she's just left hanging without so much as a transition didn't help.
And since you decided to include him, David sucked in part because he's basically another clone of Kenny who's attempt to replicate the ending of Season 2.5 ultimately serves to underline why Kenny was the superior character. And the morally ambiguous angle fails mainly due to the fact that they overcompensated in trying to make him seem like this great guy despite the fact that most of his influence of the center of the story is primarily negative. I mean despite the initial effort to make her a complex antagonist, it's relatively clear that Joan was mainly introduced(or rather reassigned, according to the AMA) to be the villain so David didn't have to be, with Thicker than Water suddenly making her a straw fraud for presumably no other reason than to ensure he looks good compared her and then he's more or less made the Final Boss in From the Gallows with little to no transition.
Eeeh...debatable.
Not really. I think it's generally agreed Joan was just a flat-out terrible character who did next to nothing, and… more Telltale tried to push the "morally ambiguous" angle with David even while he kept pulling some of the most reprehensible shit seen on the series so far. Carver was a refreshingly honest asshole in comparison.
Granted. I'm pretty sure he never outright hated him, mind you, but I suppose I can agree that it definitely could've been handled better than it was. He at least has the benefit of being a bit of a tsundere from the beginning to make it more consistent, at least.
Clearly, you've never been mad at a family man then. That's very realistic and it's in character.
No, it's not. At least not in the … moreway the writers chose to portray it. Gabe might have had conflicted emotions about his father, but none of that came across in the actual episode. His constant switching between hating and loving David had no transition, no organic process. As a result, most viewers got the impression Gabe was simply a flaky idiot instead of a son who loved his dad despite all of his flaws.
Comments
Sigh...Season 2 really is a disappointment. There was so much experimentation, but it ended up causing the season to fall flat on its face.
Pretty much. You can definitely read between the lines of what was set up in the earlier episodes vs. what ended up happening in Season 2.5 to get an idea of what they wanted to do with/without staff commentary and while that's better than nothing, it's still a lot of disappointment that could've been avoided for the most part.
That seems a little revisionist. Season 2 was what started some of the complaints people had about Telltale's current direction, with the removal of extensive hubs/puzzles and the focus on shorter episodes/streamlined gameplay.
What plot points weren't consistent and resolved in Season 2?
Personally I find that A New Frontier is the better season, but this question is entirely subjective.
The murder of George (the guy Carver brings up while talking to Alvin in 203) and the shootout Clem saw the bodies from in Episode 201 were never really elaborated on that much.
Because season 2 had Lee and Kenny in it.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it is very briefly summarized in a determinant line: if Kenny got Alvin killed at the Lodge, remind Bonnie that Carver killed him. Add in some of the things Rebecca, Alvin, and Carver hint at regarding him and you can put a very vague idea together of they're situation even if it isn't particularly detailed.
Still, wish we could've gotten that from Rebecca or Carver themselves.
Luke's AK was the one Jane gave to Bonnie after she betrayed Troy. And Buricko/Vitali's situation was due to the names/models getting swapped around at some point.
ANF had Kenny in it too and he just ensured people would be pissy. Again!
Season 2 had a more logical confrontation with the main bad guys until you discover Arvo. Second season had Kenny a more reasonable and the most likeable version of Clementine at least to me and a rewind feature designed to prevent playthroughs of the entire season or episode just to get to a particular point in the story from altered choices for starters.
A New Frontier has mostly awful flashbacks for big season 2 choices and characters..everyone's pissed at you for eating their pudding and taking their gas without asking that you had no idea was possibly theirs. And the no reason hot headed and jealous brother whom had a hot wife and kids while your still single and got canned from your great career with nothing else yet he's jealous of you because you can play baseball.
Unlike Carver who had motives and reasons Joan was more so evil just because.. like some Looney toon villain. I doubt Carver would go back on his word and still execute Ava or Tripp. That choice was a Tripp. Pun intended.
It was the other way around at first. Then the rewrites happened and Joan got Titan fueled blood transfusion from him between episodes(which is pretty much under an hour or two, btw).
Now both of them are egotistical psychos. The only difference is that Joan didn't coerce her friend's spouse so she can knock them up.
"I came to see how the new girls are working out."
* a few seconds later *
"You had a task and you didn't get it done."(Which doesn't make any sense, but whatever.)
"Don't worry Bill, we'll get it done."
"Time's up, Reggie!"
Because of...
Continuation!!
Carver's rationale behind Reggie was that he was a weak disabled and incompetent member even still they both can just exile folks from the group not kill them unless they're a immediate threat. Joan didn't really have much reason to kill Ava or Tripp other than to torment Javier and she attempted to murder David when she could of just exiled them all. These villains need so much more substance in these games. One last chance for them to nail it somehow but it seems unlikely. You mentioned something about a wicked Clem counterpart in the last game or reverse Lee, which could be interesting.. well on paper atleast..
And not white. And as we all know, anyone who is disadvantaged in any way must be abused and killed off unless they're white(and whatever Jane is).
Fuck Season 2.5, maaan! Especially the Scruffy Carver Tennessee Ranger in a shit colored coat and the Edgy Self Insert "Feminist" Lesbian known as Peggy Jane.
Very fuckin true.
TtW!Joan at least wanted to teach Javier a lesson about betrayal(?) by making him gamble again. Which was a great twist and a neat concept for a villain for him; the problem is that it's Joan doing it.
Fuck yeah, Huckleberry!
Reverse Lee was someone else and honestly I feel like that's been done enough, with or without the Stranger.
I'd say primarily to feeling like an actual continuation of the series, apart from that it was honestly terrible story and character wise but at least it was pretty.
Yeah, we're pissy because of his shit death.
Meh.
I'd settle for a reverse Clem more than a reverse Lee because it's in some ways like a what if scenario about if Clementine dropped all her morals and values then embraced the darker path sort of basically what Carver was talking about. Just like Sarah was a bit like a what if Clem didn't get any training for survival and was shielded from most all the horrors of their world until too late. But my issue with that is New Frontier Clementine was nearly close to being like a anti-Clem compared to how Clem use to be. She changed drastically from the previous seasons that this concept has been explored already a little.
My point was more that the Russians kind of felt like a Deus Ex Machina in some regards, to be kind of honest.
Well, Diabolus Ex Machina, but I suppose. Personally, I always felt like they were wasted characters.
It was a shit death...good thing it didn't happen in my playthrough though.
But there is an option to play as a scumbag. And it works. My Lee was evil as fuck, and it felt good. Plus, all the surviving characters (except Ben I think) can get mad at Lee and refuse to help at the end of Episode 4. It depends on how you treated them.
Episode 5, if you choose to go save Richmond, there are just two guns lying in the corner, and Javi is like "Oh look. we will need these". They aren't there if you go after Gabe, or Javi doesn't notice them. They are just there as a plot point.
They didn't come out of nowehere. There was an established character Arvo with established connection to his sister (and possibly more people). Arvo knew about Clem's group and told the Russians, who set up an ambush.
because season 2 had 6 characters that i found interesting overrall and thought were good: Kenny,Luke,Bonnie ,Jane ((before the final choice i loved the person and character currently i hate her as a person but still love her character)) and also Carver ((Pretty decent villain too bad he died so early.)) while in ANF there were only 2 characters that i cared about: Gabe and David ((I used to like Kate at the start but she just got worse and worse during and after Above the Law.))
EDIT: Also Sarah for some reason i completely forgot about her lol.
This! THIS! Sums it up perfectly though i would have been more harsh about S3
And Christa's disappearance or with how she lost her baby.
Absolutely correct!
The only thing that Season 2 had that continued on from season 1 was Clementine and then the return of Kenny, and even then, both characters were altered differently to how they were in season 1. Christa and Omid were killed of right at the start (Yes, i know we didn't see Christa die, but i highly doubt she will return). It also got rid of hubs and puzzles which made the new characters hard to form connections with like season 1 because there wasn't enough scenes to create those relationships. Season 2 was mainly about Clementine and Kenny, where as Season 1, we played as Lee and guided Clementine, but we also had major storylines towards the other characters and besides Carley's death to shock the fans, all of the characters who got killed had a meaning behind it, unlike season 2 with you trying your hardest to help Sarah, only to have her die regardless and in stupid ways or trying to help Nick build himself up again, only to have him as a background character after episode 2 and then die off screen. And then Arvo shooting Clementine and Arvo, Mike and Bonnie running off and we never hear of them again. Season 2 was a mess and it had good moments, but it was season 2 that started the downhill of quality in the walking dead series and the short episodes as well. They wrote themselves into a wall by having so many different endings, that they had no choice, but to bring a new story into the series. I personally believe that they could've kept going, but with the amount of different endings, they didn't have the motivation or drive to put a lot of work into a season 3 that was based of the endings of season 2. Still, i enjoyed ANF, it will never top Season 1, but it is a lot better than people claim it isn't. ANF got mostly negative reviews because Clementine wasn't the player character, if she wasn't in season 2 , i would put money down that most fans would've hated it a lot more then ANF.
It didn't get rid of them, just use them fairly sparsely and really halfass most of the ones we did get.
"Say Sarah, how do you feel about Nick exercising poor gun control by shooting that guy on the bridge? And where would you stand regarding your dad wanting to kick his hickey ass to the curb?"
* Useless button clicks on Sarah's face *
"Wisdom for the ages."
And the season 2 characters took a bit hit because of it. Obviously Clementine and Kennys roles overshadowed them, but they lack of development from getting rid of things that help that part of the game didn't help.
Sarah will remember that
Yep. Also
Shoutout to @marcost3
Not really. I think it's generally agreed Joan was just a flat-out terrible character who did next to nothing, and Telltale tried to push the "morally ambiguous" angle with David even while he kept pulling some of the most reprehensible shit seen on the series so far. Carver was a refreshingly honest asshole in comparison.
No, it's not. At least not in the way the writers chose to portray it. Gabe might have had conflicted emotions about his father, but none of that came across in the actual episode. His constant switching between hating and loving David had no transition, no organic process. As a result, most viewers got the impression Gabe was simply a flaky idiot instead of a son who loved his dad despite all of his flaws.
Well, let's go down the list then:
Michelle is definitely a Starter Villain and pretty unique/offbeat one to boot. So much so that her barely 10 minutes of screentime somehow makes her a more impactful and personal antagonist than the other two and honestly makes me wish they'd done more with her.
Call it indirect Hype Backlash or not, but Carver is honestly one of my most hated characters for the wrong reasons. He was apparently set up as this morally ambiguous bad guy who the Cabin Group has this complicated personal history with, which not only goes undelivered upon but completely flies out the window the moment you see him in person and probably even before that. He honestly just came off an egotistical psychopath and an insufferable smug tyrant who just uses Darwinism as an excuse to control, hurt, and dick with people, occasionally both at once.
I don't really count Troy since he's really just a dickish minion who doesn't really do more than what Carver expects of him and then barely even that.
And while Arvo grew on me over time, he's almost firmly in Designated Villain territory and doesn't really do much anything antagonistic until his final scene, most of which was more forced than it should've been, somewhat unnecessary, and shirks what actually could've been done with his character.
Max is a bizarre case of a character being given the room to be more than what he could've been and then getting cut out when there was more that could've been done with him. He had a motivation and personal code that humanized him, but still had a hand in some things that not only made him still a bit of an antagonist but it also caused his to risk putting a strain on his relationships. His character was thus the subject of an interesting choice that put him in a position to grow as a character, but he simply disappeared from the story before anything more could be done with his character.
Badger was almost universally despised for better or worse, which is both his purpose for existing and a result of how blatantly weak a character and/or plot device he is.
I personally really like Joan initially, given she actually had an understandable motivation that made her truly morally grey . But then her character underwent a drastic shift in personality and she was suddenly reduced to just an avarious politician rather than being a comfortable middle ground from start to finish. The fact that she's just left hanging without so much as a transition didn't help.
And since you decided to include him, David sucked in part because he's basically another clone of Kenny who's attempt to replicate the ending of Season 2.5 ultimately serves to underline why Kenny was the superior character. And the morally ambiguous angle fails mainly due to the fact that they overcompensated in trying to make him seem like this great guy despite the fact that most of his influence of the center of the story is primarily negative. I mean despite the initial effort to make her a complex antagonist, it's relatively clear that Joan was mainly introduced(or rather reassigned, according to the AMA) to be the villain so David didn't have to be, with Thicker than Water suddenly making her a straw fraud for presumably no other reason than to ensure he looks good compared her and then he's more or less made the Final Boss in From the Gallows with little to no transition.
Granted. I'm pretty sure he never outright hated him, mind you, but I suppose I can agree that it definitely could've been handled better than it was. He at least has the benefit of being a bit of a tsundere from the beginning to make it more consistent, at least.