Trying to kill your own brother in a fit of rage whether or not he truly is in love with your wife does make him appear as a we4k b3tA cuckbo1 3edgy5me to some.
David's character is a lot more nuanced and complex than you are letting on. Not saying hes perfect but hes definitely not some we4k b3tA cuckbo1 3edgy5me
David's jealousy/inferiority complex towards Javi is much, much deeper than simply sucking one time at the batting cages. In the first scene of the game we learn that David's own father did not acknowledge him on his deathbed because he was too busy looking around the room for Javi. If that wouldn't deeply wound you and cause deep resentment towards your brother, then I don't know what would. We can also see many pictures of baseball prodigy Javi as a kid around the house, it must have been difficult being the less successful/favored sibling for his entire life. Complexes and wounds like that are formative especially during childhood so I don't see his jealousy as an outright weakness, but rather a product of his family dynamics growing up and something that significantly shaped how he views and values himself.
David was not a good father, but he was a good soldier. He straight up admits this to Javi, and says that he has always wanted to change but doesn't know if it is possible. This shows that David is at least aware of his own shortcomings and has the desire to change his ways. And yes, David the soldier always seems to triumph over David the father or David the brother, but he still tries to use his soldier skills for the good of the group (killing walkers, providing intel, trying to make executive decisions to keep the group safe).
By the time David explodes on Javi, he has found out his daughter was murdered by his own men, discovered his men had been raiding and looting behind his back, was framed and lied to about the raiding, was nearly executed publicly for crimes he didn't commit, and lost his second in command. Basically within the span of 2-3 days he was betrayed by (almost) everyone he trusted and was made to be the scapegoat despite protecting this community for years. Finding out that his brother was hooking up with his wife was likely the cinderblock that broke the camel's back.
that awkard moment when you're very sleepy and just came from reading Life Is Strage fanfictio and you're very confused on how could aybody think that Kate could be anything but pure perfection
The problem with Kate is not that she is unfaithful, she could not possibly have imagined during those four years she low-key hit on Javi Da… morevid was alive, and once she realized he was, after all, alive she definitely wanted to explain things to him and all.
The real problem with Kate though is that she is a fucking retard who either is too dumb to understand how humans work or who purposefully caused trouble. This idiot instead of outright telling David when they first met she is not interested in him anymore, keeps feeding him hope and plays along with his clearly still alive affection for her rather than just refusing it. Then, during a heated argument on what to do next during episode 5, the hair brained fool decides to break the news to David by implying, in both scenarios, that Javi's been fucking her, effectively turning him against us. And as we, of course, take the whole fall for her mess with David, she remains untouched but, oh!!… [view original content]
That's funny, cause I didn't pull any of those things from him. Perhaps that's what they were going for, yet trying to write a complex character akin to Paul Schrader, Terrence Malick, or the likes of writers as the such with goofy shortcomings and over-sights does not make a character come off that way.
The problem with David is that rather than subtly conveying hurt, he whines deliberately and it's absolutely dreadful, so while your arguments to him being "subtle" hold water, he's still terribly written in almost every attribute.
And him leaving his family behind with Javier isn't given time to feel earned, it's done within one batting cage scene where he whines and moans yet again about a past we barely know anything about.
Sure, I would love to.
* David's jealousy/inferiority complex towards Javi is much, much deeper than simply sucking one time at the bat… moreting cages. In the first scene of the game we learn that David's own father did not acknowledge him on his deathbed because he was too busy looking around the room for Javi. If that wouldn't deeply wound you and cause deep resentment towards your brother, then I don't know what would. We can also see many pictures of baseball prodigy Javi as a kid around the house, it must have been difficult being the less successful/favored sibling for his entire life. Complexes and wounds like that are formative especially during childhood so I don't see his jealousy as an outright weakness, but rather a product of his family dynamics growing up and something that significantly shaped how he views and values himself.
* David was not a good father, but he was a good soldier. He straight up admits this to Javi, and… [view original content]
Kate is fickle and unfaithful this proves it.
that awkard moment when you're very sleepy and just came from reading Life Is Strage f… moreanfictio and you're very confused on how could aybody think that Kate could be anything but pure perfection
it sounded funny in my head sry guys
please punch me before i say more weird shit
Unfaithful to David before or after the being separated from him? I mean, there was no evidence that she was cheating on him before the apocalypse. During it, while she thought David was dead, she started falling in love with Javier. David and Kate had been separated for years (two? three? four?) and most people died. It would have been justifiable for her to think that he might have died. You can't cheat on a dead spouse. Sooo... after, when they reunited, and David assumed that they would resume being married, and she didn't want that... well, I don't know when would have been a good time for them to have a heart to heart about... "Hey, honey, I don't think this is going to work anymore. Let's break up/get a divorce. Plus, I kind of developed feelings for your brother. We cool?" I mean, it was kind of a tricky situation. Under ordinary circumstances, trying to seduce one's brother-in-law is a huge no-no. They weren't living under ordinary circumstances. Give the girl a break.
I think everyone knew she was unfaithful to David, that was the whole plot between them. Speaking of which, she had reasons to be disloyal to him, David was no better.
It sounded to me like he was a soldier who was having a hard time readjusting to life as a civilian. It isn't uncommon for soldiers who have served in war to feel this way. That's kind of an archetype. So, we should have been able to get a sense of David's character based on people like him that we either know ourselves firsthand, or have read about/seen depicted in other medium.
That's funny, cause I didn't pull any of those things from him. Perhaps that's what they were going for, yet trying to write a complex chara… morecter akin to Paul Schrader, Terrence Malick, or the likes of writers as the such with goofy shortcomings and over-sights does not make a character come off that way.
The problem with David is that rather than subtly conveying hurt, he whines deliberately and it's absolutely dreadful, so while your arguments to him being "subtle" hold water, he's still terribly written in almost every attribute.
And him leaving his family behind with Javier isn't given time to feel earned, it's done within one batting cage scene where he whines and moans yet again about a past we barely know anything about.
I think it was implied that they might have had an abusive relationship. Just because we didn't see David beating Kate or see bruises doesn't mean that the relationship wasn't unhealthy. She was walking on eggshells and worried about his temper because she broke a glass. Remember? Plus, they didn't really know how much he knew or how he had changed during their separation. So. Wouldn't it make sense for Kate to be afraid of David? She needed to stay on his good side for her safety, and while she was healing, until she could get away from him. Yeah, she made a vow but sometimes there are perfectly good reasons to want to end a marriage. An abusive spouse is one of them.
David and Kate had been married pre-apocalypse. Their past bond was not his imagination, Kate should've told him she did not wish for such b… moreond to keep on existing, that it was a new life or something, that they didn't know each other anymore, etc... anything but playing along with it and scheming to convince his brother to abandon him by running away with her and his son the second he turns his back to her? I didn't really mind it, but I'm pretty sure it's a kinda heinous thing to do... morally speaking.
Do you also remember how David ended up actually being understanding and quickly dismissed the accident with the cup? Of course, he was upset, who wouldn't be, but ultimately quickly let it go.
Their marriage clearly wasn't healthy, for both sides. They were both unhappy and they both didn't get along. It was "abusive" for both sides; David was clearly in shambles and unhappy in episode 4's flashback and so was Kate in episode 2's.
Anyways, the thing is, neither side decided to end it, and ultimately, years after separation, David tried to revive their marriage once they met again, while Kate simply didn't. And it's totally fair to not want to revive such bond after so many years of separation, don't get me wrong, what I don't find fair, however, is not that she didn't immediately tell him the truth, maybe she was afraid because she didn't know him anymore, sure, that's fair; the problem is that when she does tell him the truth, she does it in the worst and most provocative manner possible, being completely dismissive and un-understanding of David's feelings. And to make everything even better she decides to implicate us, even in the scenario where we refused to get involved with her.
I recall in episode 4 Kate saying something along the lines of them having a long conversation with David once it was all over, that would've been ideal... except in episode 5 Kate goes and contradicts her own plan. She decides that the "conversation" would be her screaming at him, villainizing him completely, not letting him speak at all proceeded by her passionately kissing his brother in front of him? Just wonder how David felt. How is this not emotional abuse and provocation against David?
Of course, this horrible way to deal with things is instead applauded and called a brave emancipation just because Kate is a woman and therefore inevitably a victim, even though there's absolutely no evidence proving that the marriage wasn't dysfunctional due to both sides, David and Kate.
I think it was implied that they might have had an abusive relationship. Just because we didn't see David beating Kate or see bruises doesn'… moret mean that the relationship wasn't unhealthy. She was walking on eggshells and worried about his temper because she broke a glass. Remember? Plus, they didn't really know how much he knew or how he had changed during their separation. So. Wouldn't it make sense for Kate to be afraid of David? She needed to stay on his good side for her safety, and while she was healing, until she could get away from him. Yeah, she made a vow but sometimes there are perfectly good reasons to want to end a marriage. An abusive spouse is one of them.
And this basically sums up one of the bigger problems with ANF's plot and this series since Season 2.5. It seems like everything has to be a competition or a popularity contest in the middle of what is initially pushed as a complex conflict but for one reason or another, it seems everything has to end with someone getting screwed over and/or with a big antagonist to be fought.
In this case, they wanted to push David as this oh so deep individual who plays a villainous role, but it flops/backfires particularly hard since they spent most of the previous two episodes trying to convince you of how great he supposedly is, even downplaying the positive qualities/actions of characters like Joan(though I guess this isn't downplaying so much as revoking), Kate, and Lingard and putting comparatively little to no effort going into giving characters like Kate much overt depth or sympathetic POV. And that in turn led to some people being convinced there was supposed to be this intense enmity between Kate and David when really it was just a matter of one being more unhappy and distant than the other.
Personally, I couldn't care less for David when it's all said and done, but that's mostly because of how unconvincing some of the drama around him was.
Do you also remember how David ended up actually being understanding and quickly dismissed the accident with the cup? Of course, he was upse… moret, who wouldn't be, but ultimately quickly let it go.
Their marriage clearly wasn't healthy, for both sides. They were both unhappy and they both didn't get along. It was "abusive" for both sides; David was clearly in shambles and unhappy in episode 4's flashback and so was Kate in episode 2's.
Anyways, the thing is, neither side decided to end it, and ultimately, years after separation, David tried to revive their marriage once they met again, while Kate simply didn't. And it's totally fair to not want to revive such bond after so many years of separation, don't get me wrong, what I don't find fair, however, is not that she didn't immediately tell him the truth, maybe she was afraid because she didn't know him anymore, sure, that's fair; the problem is that when she does tell him the truth, she doe… [view original content]
And there in lies the issue, other mediums have tackled PTSD and an individuals inability to readjust far more pertinently than having a man whine about losing a batting cage match.
It's almost insulting in a way to use the "PTSD" argument with any fictional character when they act like an infant pouting as opposed to being genuinely damage both psychologically and physically.
It sounded to me like he was a soldier who was having a hard time readjusting to life as a civilian. It isn't uncommon for soldiers who have… more served in war to feel this way. That's kind of an archetype. So, we should have been able to get a sense of David's character based on people like him that we either know ourselves firsthand, or have read about/seen depicted in other medium.
Calm down. She wasn't a very good character to begin with. And for once I was defending her. I never said the problem with her had to do with her betraying David since I understand why she did, but what she did afterwards was the issue. She still destroyed any brotherly relationship David and Javier could have had and wanted Javier to ditch David various times because of her own personal experience with him. And don't say she was doing what was best for Javier because if you side with David he's actually pretty decent to him. Still an awful character like her though.
Unfaithful to David before or after the being separated from him? I mean, there was no evidence that she was cheating on him before the apoc… morealypse. During it, while she thought David was dead, she started falling in love with Javier. David and Kate had been separated for years (two? three? four?) and most people died. It would have been justifiable for her to think that he might have died. You can't cheat on a dead spouse. Sooo... after, when they reunited, and David assumed that they would resume being married, and she didn't want that... well, I don't know when would have been a good time for them to have a heart to heart about... "Hey, honey, I don't think this is going to work anymore. Let's break up/get a divorce. Plus, I kind of developed feelings for your brother. We cool?" I mean, it was kind of a tricky situation. Under ordinary circumstances, trying to seduce one's brother-in-law is a huge no-no. They weren't living under ordinary circumstances. Give the girl a break.
Okay. I agree that what she did after was a pretty shit thing to do. She wanted Javi, for very selfish reasons, to stay with her instead of staying with David. She manipulated David into believing something had happened between her and Javi (even if you reject her) whether or not anything happens. And David is too hot-headed and distrusting of Javi to believe that his brother didn't hook up with Kate or to stop and actually think about it. She did destroy that relationship, and yes, that is an awful thing to do.
As far as the whole did she or didn't she cheat on David and what kind of person does that make Kate... I may have been responding to other people who have written about Kate.
I also thought it was awful of her to try to get Gabe to stay with her instead of staying with his dad. She was just his step-mom while David was his dad. That was crap.
Calm down. She wasn't a very good character to begin with. And for once I was defending her. I never said the problem with her had to do wit… moreh her betraying David since I understand why she did, but what she did afterwards was the issue. She still destroyed any brotherly relationship David and Javier could have had and wanted Javier to ditch David various times because of her own personal experience with him. And don't say she was doing what was best for Javier because if you side with David he's actually pretty decent to him. Still an awful character like her though.
Comments
Trying to kill your own brother in a fit of rage whether or not he truly is in love with your wife does make him appear as a we4k b3tA cuckbo1 3edgy5me to some.
Sure, I would love to.
that awkard moment when you're very sleepy and just came from reading Life Is Strage fanfictio and you're very confused on how could aybody think that Kate could be anything but pure perfection
it sounded funny in my head sry guys
please punch me before i say more weird shit
she's not stupid... she's evil and too smart for our own good
That's funny, cause I didn't pull any of those things from him. Perhaps that's what they were going for, yet trying to write a complex character akin to Paul Schrader, Terrence Malick, or the likes of writers as the such with goofy shortcomings and over-sights does not make a character come off that way.
The problem with David is that rather than subtly conveying hurt, he whines deliberately and it's absolutely dreadful, so while your arguments to him being "subtle" hold water, he's still terribly written in almost every attribute.
And him leaving his family behind with Javier isn't given time to feel earned, it's done within one batting cage scene where he whines and moans yet again about a past we barely know anything about.
Wakey wakey, Raven, eggs and bakey!
Kate sucks and will always suck.
Terrible character from beginning to end.
Unfaithful to David before or after the being separated from him? I mean, there was no evidence that she was cheating on him before the apocalypse. During it, while she thought David was dead, she started falling in love with Javier. David and Kate had been separated for years (two? three? four?) and most people died. It would have been justifiable for her to think that he might have died. You can't cheat on a dead spouse. Sooo... after, when they reunited, and David assumed that they would resume being married, and she didn't want that... well, I don't know when would have been a good time for them to have a heart to heart about... "Hey, honey, I don't think this is going to work anymore. Let's break up/get a divorce. Plus, I kind of developed feelings for your brother. We cool?" I mean, it was kind of a tricky situation. Under ordinary circumstances, trying to seduce one's brother-in-law is a huge no-no. They weren't living under ordinary circumstances. Give the girl a break.
I hate the word cuck and the world view this seems to come from.
It sounded to me like he was a soldier who was having a hard time readjusting to life as a civilian. It isn't uncommon for soldiers who have served in war to feel this way. That's kind of an archetype. So, we should have been able to get a sense of David's character based on people like him that we either know ourselves firsthand, or have read about/seen depicted in other medium.
I think it was implied that they might have had an abusive relationship. Just because we didn't see David beating Kate or see bruises doesn't mean that the relationship wasn't unhealthy. She was walking on eggshells and worried about his temper because she broke a glass. Remember? Plus, they didn't really know how much he knew or how he had changed during their separation. So. Wouldn't it make sense for Kate to be afraid of David? She needed to stay on his good side for her safety, and while she was healing, until she could get away from him. Yeah, she made a vow but sometimes there are perfectly good reasons to want to end a marriage. An abusive spouse is one of them.
Do you also remember how David ended up actually being understanding and quickly dismissed the accident with the cup? Of course, he was upset, who wouldn't be, but ultimately quickly let it go.
Their marriage clearly wasn't healthy, for both sides. They were both unhappy and they both didn't get along. It was "abusive" for both sides; David was clearly in shambles and unhappy in episode 4's flashback and so was Kate in episode 2's.
Anyways, the thing is, neither side decided to end it, and ultimately, years after separation, David tried to revive their marriage once they met again, while Kate simply didn't. And it's totally fair to not want to revive such bond after so many years of separation, don't get me wrong, what I don't find fair, however, is not that she didn't immediately tell him the truth, maybe she was afraid because she didn't know him anymore, sure, that's fair; the problem is that when she does tell him the truth, she does it in the worst and most provocative manner possible, being completely dismissive and un-understanding of David's feelings. And to make everything even better she decides to implicate us, even in the scenario where we refused to get involved with her.
I recall in episode 4 Kate saying something along the lines of them having a long conversation with David once it was all over, that would've been ideal... except in episode 5 Kate goes and contradicts her own plan. She decides that the "conversation" would be her screaming at him, villainizing him completely, not letting him speak at all proceeded by her passionately kissing his brother in front of him? Just wonder how David felt. How is this not emotional abuse and provocation against David?
Of course, this horrible way to deal with things is instead applauded and called a brave emancipation just because Kate is a woman and therefore inevitably a victim, even though there's absolutely no evidence proving that the marriage wasn't dysfunctional due to both sides, David and Kate.
And this basically sums up one of the bigger problems with ANF's plot and this series since Season 2.5. It seems like everything has to be a competition or a popularity contest in the middle of what is initially pushed as a complex conflict but for one reason or another, it seems everything has to end with someone getting screwed over and/or with a big antagonist to be fought.
In this case, they wanted to push David as this oh so deep individual who plays a villainous role, but it flops/backfires particularly hard since they spent most of the previous two episodes trying to convince you of how great he supposedly is, even downplaying the positive qualities/actions of characters like Joan(though I guess this isn't downplaying so much as revoking), Kate, and Lingard and putting comparatively little to no effort going into giving characters like Kate much overt depth or sympathetic POV. And that in turn led to some people being convinced there was supposed to be this intense enmity between Kate and David when really it was just a matter of one being more unhappy and distant than the other.
Personally, I couldn't care less for David when it's all said and done, but that's mostly because of how unconvincing some of the drama around him was.
Guess I'm not the one saying weird shit anymore. Thanks bud
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
oh yes Kate yess harder harder in yaassss
And there in lies the issue, other mediums have tackled PTSD and an individuals inability to readjust far more pertinently than having a man whine about losing a batting cage match.
It's almost insulting in a way to use the "PTSD" argument with any fictional character when they act like an infant pouting as opposed to being genuinely damage both psychologically and physically.
LoL....you go girl.
A word doesn't have a systemic "world view."
Calm down. She wasn't a very good character to begin with. And for once I was defending her. I never said the problem with her had to do with her betraying David since I understand why she did, but what she did afterwards was the issue. She still destroyed any brotherly relationship David and Javier could have had and wanted Javier to ditch David various times because of her own personal experience with him. And don't say she was doing what was best for Javier because if you side with David he's actually pretty decent to him. Still an awful character like her though.
Okay. I agree that what she did after was a pretty shit thing to do. She wanted Javi, for very selfish reasons, to stay with her instead of staying with David. She manipulated David into believing something had happened between her and Javi (even if you reject her) whether or not anything happens. And David is too hot-headed and distrusting of Javi to believe that his brother didn't hook up with Kate or to stop and actually think about it. She did destroy that relationship, and yes, that is an awful thing to do.
As far as the whole did she or didn't she cheat on David and what kind of person does that make Kate... I may have been responding to other people who have written about Kate.
I also thought it was awful of her to try to get Gabe to stay with her instead of staying with his dad. She was just his step-mom while David was his dad. That was crap.
Kate will always suck the worst.
Considering how the thread was started with a gendered slur with half the thread being insults, I'm gonna go ahead and close this one down.