There is still a lot of questions about John.
He showed up in Arkham one day and NO ONE remembers how he got there? wtf is up with that?
… more
Then no one ever seems to talk about the season finale scene where hes talking in a much more Joker like voice wearing a suit. Implying what I always thought was that everything we saw from him was just an act.
First two eps now seem to complicate that. Did they decide against it? Or is he also playing a game with his buddies...
That entire scene at Wayne Tower was anxiety. Just holy shit it felt wrong to being doing such terrible things (Like leaving the guard, blaming Regina) but I needed to get in good and I really do care about John and want to help him however I may be able too.
Yeah, it started out fine for me (thought I'd be in and out easy) but when Harley and John entered the elevator right after me, ooh boy was that surprising. I did not feel good for that entire WEnt. section. Still, I didn't let Harley boss me around or my employees while I was there. I (tried) to maintain my sense of power.
That entire scene at Wayne Tower was anxiety. Just holy shit it felt wrong to being doing such terrible things (Like leaving the guard, blam… moreing Regina) but I needed to get in good and I really do care about John and want to help him however I may be able too.
It was damn excellent in execution though.
Harley is a doctor in Arkham and she bailed him out
Actually no. The doctor who released him was Joan Leland, the one who he convinced he was sane enough to leave. (Same doctor in opening of S1 Episode 4)
The entrance of the Mr.Freeze was disappointed and made me unsatisfied. However, Bane and Harley Quinn is good portrayed. Cant complain about this, tho.
What intrigues me by far the most is what the hell do they need Riddler's corpse for ?
Are they going to "revive" him somehow ? Now that could be a great way to introduce the Lazarus pit and Ra's but I doubt Telltale would go quite that far.
I thought it was really good! I think it's just below Episode 1 in terms of ranking though. It was a well written Bruce-centric episode. I r… moreeally like Bane and Harley but as many have said, Mr. Freeze is definitely the weakest character so far (that could change obviously). Great voice acting as usual, animation as well was really well done apart from a few scenes, action scenes are really cool and well choreographed (though sparse) and I'm loving the idea of Bruce infiltrating the Pact.
Nice to see our choices taking effect in this episode with Tiffany and Avesta as well. Joker is great as usual and I hope to keep being best buddies with him
The episode felt less polished than the previous one in my opinion. There was some stuttering at the start, Harley/Bane can be shot but act like it's nothing (no bullet holes or anything) which is disappointing considering Riddler's appearance changes from the fights with Batman. The hubs were nic… [view original content]
I don't mean so much design but the overall way tha finalt scene with him at the bar plays out. Especially the one if you choose Batman. It makes it seem like the whole goofy John persona is an act.
Yeah, Joker's Arkham origin is really strange. Hopefully we get that figured out this season.
As for his design change? I have a feeling that Telltale simply decided to scrap that look.
I absolutely love what they're doing with John. He just seems really sad, and I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming the Joker. Because as of yet, I don't think we've seen him do anything too terrible, just letting other people do it. I legitimately like him and want him as my friend. I'm hoping by the end of the game I can get him to leave the pact and renounce them.
Absolutely a fantastic episode. On paar with episode 1 for me. It felt like a bit to many introductions though, which shows with Victor. Although I think it was cool when he froze the gun, and that he came like immidietaly qfter John turned off the electricity. But it was... kinda weak. Everything else was great.
9/10 definitely.
A question though, can you get full majority when they vote you in to the pact? Victor voted me out, but the rest voted me in. Is it possible for Bane to vote you out or Victor to vite you in?
Absolutely a fantastic episode. On paar with episode 1 for me. It felt like a bit to many introductions though, which shows with Victor. Alt… morehough I think it was cool when he froze the gun, and that he came like immidietaly qfter John turned off the electricity. But it was... kinda weak. Everything else was great.
9/10 definitely.
A question though, can you get full majority when they vote you in to the pact? Victor voted me out, but the rest voted me in. Is it possible for Bane to vote you out or Victor to vite you in?
Bane and Freeze's votes are determinant. If Freeze believes you don't care about his wife he'll call you shallow and vote out, if he believes you genuinely care then he'll vote in. Bane's votes in if you're brutal with the thug. I haven't seen what happens if you don't get the majority votes.
Absolutely a fantastic episode. On paar with episode 1 for me. It felt like a bit to many introductions though, which shows with Victor. Alt… morehough I think it was cool when he froze the gun, and that he came like immidietaly qfter John turned off the electricity. But it was... kinda weak. Everything else was great.
9/10 definitely.
A question though, can you get full majority when they vote you in to the pact? Victor voted me out, but the rest voted me in. Is it possible for Bane to vote you out or Victor to vite you in?
I absolutely love what they're doing with John. He just seems really sad, and I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming… more the Joker. Because as of yet, I don't think we've seen him do anything too terrible, just letting other people do it. I legitimately like him and want him as my friend. I'm hoping by the end of the game I can get him to leave the pact and renounce them.
He got 2 bullets on his shoulder and he was like "WHATEVER"
I guess it depends if you have good relationship with Waller, right ? Otherwise, I guess she wont give it to you.
I got Bane's vote by being brutal in the beating of his gang member and I got Freeze's vote by telling him that the love he and his wife shared was admirable and that there was technology at Wayne Enterprises that could help with his research.
Absolutely a fantastic episode. On paar with episode 1 for me. It felt like a bit to many introductions though, which shows with Victor. Alt… morehough I think it was cool when he froze the gun, and that he came like immidietaly qfter John turned off the electricity. But it was... kinda weak. Everything else was great.
9/10 definitely.
A question though, can you get full majority when they vote you in to the pact? Victor voted me out, but the rest voted me in. Is it possible for Bane to vote you out or Victor to vite you in?
I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming the Joker
I doubt that, because despite the fact that we didn't see him doing anything too terrible yet, he enjoys watching other dish out the violence way too much. That and I don't think that Telltale will deviate from the canon that much, at least not with as famous character as the Joker.
I absolutely love what they're doing with John. He just seems really sad, and I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming… more the Joker. Because as of yet, I don't think we've seen him do anything too terrible, just letting other people do it. I legitimately like him and want him as my friend. I'm hoping by the end of the game I can get him to leave the pact and renounce them.
Well, there's homage and then there's innovation. We've seen the canon version of joker a hundred thousand times. This would be a new spin to it. And while John may sometimes display psychopathic tendencies, he also sometimes seems like a genuine guy who's just trying to get over his insanity.
I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming the Joker
I doubt that, because despite the fact that we didn't see h… moreim doing anything too terrible yet, he enjoys watching other dish out the violence way too much. That and I don't think that Telltale will deviate from the canon that much, at least not with as famous character as the Joker.
Telltale's take on the Joker is definatly something new and I'm glad that not only him but also other characters are a little different than what we are used to with the canon. It makes the game a lot more interesting. Unfortunatley I still think that John will end up becoming the Joker just like Harvey still became Two-Face.
Well, there's homage and then there's innovation. We've seen the canon version of joker a hundred thousand times. This would be a new spin t… moreo it. And while John may sometimes display psychopathic tendencies, he also sometimes seems like a genuine guy who's just trying to get over his insanity.
He probably will, but just like I did with Harvey, in game I will act as though John is simply a man trying to suppress his insanity and looking for friends, but finding them in the wrong place. Until he actually becomes the Joker, I won't be acting as if I even know the Joker exists, because Bruce doesn't yet.
Telltale's take on the Joker is definatly something new and I'm glad that not only him but also other characters are a little different than… more what we are used to with the canon. It makes the game a lot more interesting. Unfortunatley I still think that John will end up becoming the Joker just like Harvey still became Two-Face.
He probably will, but just like I did with Harvey, in game I will act as though John is simply a man trying to suppress his insanity and loo… moreking for friends, but finding them in the wrong place. Until he actually becomes the Joker, I won't be acting as if I even know the Joker exists, because Bruce doesn't yet.
John said that Riddler was the closest thing they had to a leader in The Pact, but based on the emails on Riddler's computer on Episode 1 (in which a person named H, most likely Harley, was scolding him for going against Batman) and in the democratic system they have when it comes to making decisions, we could say that Riddler probably was one of the most influential members of The Pact, but he still had to answer to Bane, Freeze, Harley and John.
Lot of tense moments/choices in this episode, with Bruce dealing with Harley and John in Wayne Enterprises and then trying to get his way in with the Pact. It almost makes you feel kind of powerless, which is also fitting given it was mostly a Bruce-centered episode with only one Batman sequence at the beginning.
People getting themselves hurt or killed for helping Batman still seems to be a consistent theme this season.
I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't see Bullock turn up.
It's hard to gauge exactly how Harley feels about John. They seem very similar in terms of their tastes/desires, but Harley seems view him as more of a puppy dog then a romantic interest, which is fittingly similar to how Joker's sometimes viewed Harley. I'm curious if John becoming The Joker might make her genuinely interested in him as a lover, assuming she lives that long.
I wonder if part of what will lead to John becoming The Joker is him trying to "man up" to impress Harley? I feel like she's going to end up being as much of a catalyst for John's transformation into the Clown Prince of Crime as Bruce/us. I'm already getting Bruce/Selina/Harvey vibes with Bruce/Harley/John. But so far it just doesn't seem like John has the drive or the aggressiveness he needs to be the Joker, but that could be because he's so focused on Harley.
I'm curious to see where they go with Tiffany. It seems obvious she's eventually going to find out Bruce is Batman, Alfred even says as much, but I guess how well she takes it will depend on how honest with her you've been across the season since it was key to protecting her from Harley in this episode.
I liked them acknowledging Harley was Bi-Sexual by having her comment about possibly kissing Tiffany while she was holding her down, on-top of all the obvious flirting with Bruce.
If Avesta was the one who really figured out our identity, I do kind of want to have a conversation with her to discuss that and how she found out. On-top of just checking in to see how she's doing depending on the choices you made in episode 1.
I'm guessing whoever was left behind at the raid will come back being ticked off we left them behind...either that or they're in police custody, and we'll have the chance to personally interrogate them. I'm leaning towards the former though.
I'm curious to see what's going to happen with Selina next episode. She seems to be working with The Pact for just the money, and she seemed bemused when she saw Bruce with them, so I'm wondering how she'll play it and what choice we'll have in the matter. I guess depending on our choices in season 1 she could make things easier or harder with us in the Pact. Maybe even want to reconcile after how we left things last time?
They are using the classic character myths so far(Joker in Arkham, Harley is a doctor in Arkham and she bailed him out, Bane is so familiar with Arkham Origin version) so I guessed they would use this one as well.
This episode was tricky for me. I have always tried to be as honest as I can as Batman to my friends and allies, but these past two episodes are forcing me to make a choice between what I believe is "I tell you the truth and you get hurt in the foreseeable future because of this" or "I lie to you, and I feel guilty for not telling you the whole truth, and you might not help me later"
It is very difficult to read John's true motives...but I was very surprised to find that I was part of under ten percent of players to refuse the pinky swear with John...like, am I the only person that noticed that he only wanted to pinky swear after he said he didn't kill Riddler? Also, I was in the minority for how I dealt with Willy, whom truly just wanted to medicine when I offered him the money to buy more. Moreover, in Joker's room, there is literally a picture with the Riddler and a drawn in arrow piercing his neck
I don't know how much longer I can stay within this Pact until I can't escape breaking Batman's code or having my cover compromised...which is more worth it? I think we all know the answer.
That entire scene at Wayne Tower was anxiety. Just holy shit it felt wrong to being doing such terrible things (Like leaving the guard, blam… moreing Regina) but I needed to get in good and I really do care about John and want to help him however I may be able too.
It was damn excellent in execution though.
This episode was tricky for me. I have always tried to be as honest as I can as Batman to my friends and allies, but these past two episodes… more are forcing me to make a choice between what I believe is "I tell you the truth and you get hurt in the foreseeable future because of this" or "I lie to you, and I feel guilty for not telling you the whole truth, and you might not help me later"
It is very difficult to read John's true motives...but I was very surprised to find that I was part of under ten percent of players to refuse the pinky swear with John...like, am I the only person that noticed that he only wanted to pinky swear after he said he didn't kill Riddler? Also, I was in the minority for how I dealt with Willy, whom truly just wanted to medicine when I offered him the money to buy more. Moreover, in Joker's room, there is literally a picture with the Riddler and a drawn in arrow piercing his neck
I don't know how much longer I can… [view original content]
This episode was tricky for me. I have always tried to be as honest as I can as Batman to my friends and allies, but these past two episodes… more are forcing me to make a choice between what I believe is "I tell you the truth and you get hurt in the foreseeable future because of this" or "I lie to you, and I feel guilty for not telling you the whole truth, and you might not help me later"
It is very difficult to read John's true motives...but I was very surprised to find that I was part of under ten percent of players to refuse the pinky swear with John...like, am I the only person that noticed that he only wanted to pinky swear after he said he didn't kill Riddler? Also, I was in the minority for how I dealt with Willy, whom truly just wanted to medicine when I offered him the money to buy more. Moreover, in Joker's room, there is literally a picture with the Riddler and a drawn in arrow piercing his neck
I don't know how much longer I can… [view original content]
That was a pretty great episode! Loved that it was mostly Bruce-centered one as well, because I usually find the Bruce parts of the story more interesting to play than the Batman ones. Were it not for the annoying bug where Blake grew his head back, (so I had to replay the first episode once again) I'd probably enjoy it more, but eh...
Something I'm not proud of is that I unintentionally most of the bad choices this episode. Tiffany hates me, Alfred is stressed and Harley got left behind even though I didn't want to. At first I wanted to replay mainly because of the last choice, but after some thinking I just let it go. Even though it was worded poorly, I went after the pact member who I thought would cause more havoc, which was probably Telltale's intention. Plus, knowing Telltale, I believe the remaining pact member who got left behind will show up later in the next episode and be like "Oi, you fuckers left me!", so no biggie.
At least I impressed all the pact members, so it's something.
I thought the whole episode was excellent, except for this bit in background text on the Gotham Media Feed: "There are very few things that are worth mentioning in articles like this as nobody seems to care." :-/ I do. I care. And there are a few typos here and there in the codex, but blah. Episode's a 9+ for me, great work.
Somehow, everyone mentioned in the epilogue was happy, satisfied, or (positively) worried, good guys and bad, so I'm threading an interesting line at the moment. Really interested in seeing Selina's role this season.
That was a pretty great episode! Loved that it was mostly Bruce-centered one as well, because I usually find the Bruce parts of the story mo… morere interesting to play than the Batman ones. Were it not for the annoying bug where Blake grew his head back, (so I had to replay the first episode once again) I'd probably enjoy it more, but eh...
Something I'm not proud of is that I unintentionally most of the bad choices this episode. Tiffany hates me, Alfred is stressed and Harley got left behind even though I didn't want to. At first I wanted to replay mainly because of the last choice, but after some thinking I just let it go. Even though it was worded poorly, I went after the pact member who I thought would cause more havoc, which was probably Telltale's intention. Plus, knowing Telltale, I believe the remaining pact member who got left behind will show up later in the next episode and be like "Oi, you fuckers left me!", so no biggie.
At least I impressed all the pact members, so it's something.
If you look at it like that, then sure. But I'd rather have good relationships with characters I actually like. Bane is on the meh side right now, but of course they still have time to flesh him out.
Comments
Yeah, Joker's Arkham origin is really strange. Hopefully we get that figured out this season.
As for his design change? I have a feeling that Telltale simply decided to scrap that look.
Correct.
That entire scene at Wayne Tower was anxiety. Just holy shit it felt wrong to being doing such terrible things (Like leaving the guard, blaming Regina) but I needed to get in good and I really do care about John and want to help him however I may be able too.
It was damn excellent in execution though.
Yeah, it started out fine for me (thought I'd be in and out easy) but when Harley and John entered the elevator right after me, ooh boy was that surprising. I did not feel good for that entire WEnt. section. Still, I didn't let Harley boss me around or my employees while I was there. I (tried) to maintain my sense of power.
Thats true. But Harley gave the reports to Dr.Leland. She convinced that Joker is sane enough to leave Arkham.
I hope Mr. Freeze gets more time because I feel like his backstory is the most interesting and could potentially become less of a villain.
What intrigues me by far the most is what the hell do they need Riddler's corpse for ?
Are they going to "revive" him somehow ? Now that could be a great way to introduce the Lazarus pit and Ra's but I doubt Telltale would go quite that far.
That is a possibility.
Yep
I look forward to the tension between Harley and Catwoman because of Bruce.
I don't mean so much design but the overall way tha finalt scene with him at the bar plays out. Especially the one if you choose Batman. It makes it seem like the whole goofy John persona is an act.
I absolutely love what they're doing with John. He just seems really sad, and I'm getting the feeling he can actually be saved from becoming the Joker. Because as of yet, I don't think we've seen him do anything too terrible, just letting other people do it. I legitimately like him and want him as my friend. I'm hoping by the end of the game I can get him to leave the pact and renounce them.
Absolutely a fantastic episode. On paar with episode 1 for me. It felt like a bit to many introductions though, which shows with Victor. Although I think it was cool when he froze the gun, and that he came like immidietaly qfter John turned off the electricity. But it was... kinda weak. Everything else was great.
9/10 definitely.
A question though, can you get full majority when they vote you in to the pact? Victor voted me out, but the rest voted me in. Is it possible for Bane to vote you out or Victor to vite you in?
Its totally possible for everyone to agree to Bruce's inclusion to the Pact.
Bane and Freeze's votes are determinant. If Freeze believes you don't care about his wife he'll call you shallow and vote out, if he believes you genuinely care then he'll vote in. Bane's votes in if you're brutal with the thug. I haven't seen what happens if you don't get the majority votes.
We also tried to save Harvey from becoming Two-Face and look how it ended up.
You just have to call her when you're trapped. If you do, she'll give you the anti venom. You get info on Harley's father from Gordon if you call him.
I got Bane's vote by being brutal in the beating of his gang member and I got Freeze's vote by telling him that the love he and his wife shared was admirable and that there was technology at Wayne Enterprises that could help with his research.
That doesn't mean everything will be like that. I mean it probably will be, but hell, im an optimist.
I had the information from Harley's father because I called Gordon for help. So same thing goes for Waller as I see. Thanks for the information.
Disregard this post. Apparently I suck at quoting other people at this forum.
I doubt that, because despite the fact that we didn't see him doing anything too terrible yet, he enjoys watching other dish out the violence way too much. That and I don't think that Telltale will deviate from the canon that much, at least not with as famous character as the Joker.
Well, there's homage and then there's innovation. We've seen the canon version of joker a hundred thousand times. This would be a new spin to it. And while John may sometimes display psychopathic tendencies, he also sometimes seems like a genuine guy who's just trying to get over his insanity.
Telltale's take on the Joker is definatly something new and I'm glad that not only him but also other characters are a little different than what we are used to with the canon. It makes the game a lot more interesting. Unfortunatley I still think that John will end up becoming the Joker just like Harvey still became Two-Face.
He probably will, but just like I did with Harvey, in game I will act as though John is simply a man trying to suppress his insanity and looking for friends, but finding them in the wrong place. Until he actually becomes the Joker, I won't be acting as if I even know the Joker exists, because Bruce doesn't yet.
Good. We all should play the game in a way to make it the most fun for ourselves.
So was harley always the leader or did riddler lead before her?
John said that Riddler was the closest thing they had to a leader in The Pact, but based on the emails on Riddler's computer on Episode 1 (in which a person named H, most likely Harley, was scolding him for going against Batman) and in the democratic system they have when it comes to making decisions, we could say that Riddler probably was one of the most influential members of The Pact, but he still had to answer to Bane, Freeze, Harley and John.
Even with Two-Face our choices still determined how much of a villain he had become.
Lot of tense moments/choices in this episode, with Bruce dealing with Harley and John in Wayne Enterprises and then trying to get his way in with the Pact. It almost makes you feel kind of powerless, which is also fitting given it was mostly a Bruce-centered episode with only one Batman sequence at the beginning.
People getting themselves hurt or killed for helping Batman still seems to be a consistent theme this season.
I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't see Bullock turn up.
It's hard to gauge exactly how Harley feels about John. They seem very similar in terms of their tastes/desires, but Harley seems view him as more of a puppy dog then a romantic interest, which is fittingly similar to how Joker's sometimes viewed Harley. I'm curious if John becoming The Joker might make her genuinely interested in him as a lover, assuming she lives that long.
I wonder if part of what will lead to John becoming The Joker is him trying to "man up" to impress Harley? I feel like she's going to end up being as much of a catalyst for John's transformation into the Clown Prince of Crime as Bruce/us. I'm already getting Bruce/Selina/Harvey vibes with Bruce/Harley/John. But so far it just doesn't seem like John has the drive or the aggressiveness he needs to be the Joker, but that could be because he's so focused on Harley.
I'm curious to see where they go with Tiffany. It seems obvious she's eventually going to find out Bruce is Batman, Alfred even says as much, but I guess how well she takes it will depend on how honest with her you've been across the season since it was key to protecting her from Harley in this episode.
I liked them acknowledging Harley was Bi-Sexual by having her comment about possibly kissing Tiffany while she was holding her down, on-top of all the obvious flirting with Bruce.
If Avesta was the one who really figured out our identity, I do kind of want to have a conversation with her to discuss that and how she found out. On-top of just checking in to see how she's doing depending on the choices you made in episode 1.
I'm guessing whoever was left behind at the raid will come back being ticked off we left them behind...either that or they're in police custody, and we'll have the chance to personally interrogate them. I'm leaning towards the former though.
I'm curious to see what's going to happen with Selina next episode. She seems to be working with The Pact for just the money, and she seemed bemused when she saw Bruce with them, so I'm wondering how she'll play it and what choice we'll have in the matter. I guess depending on our choices in season 1 she could make things easier or harder with us in the Pact. Maybe even want to reconcile after how we left things last time?
Telltale's Bane is actually voiced by the same voice actor who did Bane in Arkham Origins.
This episode was tricky for me. I have always tried to be as honest as I can as Batman to my friends and allies, but these past two episodes are forcing me to make a choice between what I believe is "I tell you the truth and you get hurt in the foreseeable future because of this" or "I lie to you, and I feel guilty for not telling you the whole truth, and you might not help me later"
It is very difficult to read John's true motives...but I was very surprised to find that I was part of under ten percent of players to refuse the pinky swear with John...like, am I the only person that noticed that he only wanted to pinky swear after he said he didn't kill Riddler? Also, I was in the minority for how I dealt with Willy, whom truly just wanted to medicine when I offered him the money to buy more. Moreover, in Joker's room, there is literally a picture with the Riddler and a drawn in arrow piercing his neck
I don't know how much longer I can stay within this Pact until I can't escape breaking Batman's code or having my cover compromised...which is more worth it? I think we all know the answer.
You can just tell Harley it wont happen again and she backs off and starts flirting with you when Bruce touches her hand.
I've replayed episode 2 multiple times, once was just to leave Bane instead of Harley, the others were just because the episode was so much fun.
My only gripe about episode 2 is that it felt pretty short, an extra 10 or 15 minutes with maybe another Batman scene would've been enough for me.
Overall it was a great episode though, if Telltale keeps it up Batman is going to top WD S1 on my top Telltale games list.
Glad more people are mentioning this "detail" in John Doe's room. Like, "hey I killed that guy DO YOU SEE IT NOW ??".
Yes, we took notice.
Where at in John's room is the picture of Riddler? I've never even noticed it
That was a pretty great episode! Loved that it was mostly Bruce-centered one as well, because I usually find the Bruce parts of the story more interesting to play than the Batman ones. Were it not for the annoying bug where Blake grew his head back, (so I had to replay the first episode once again) I'd probably enjoy it more, but eh...
Something I'm not proud of is that I unintentionally most of the bad choices this episode. Tiffany hates me, Alfred is stressed and Harley got left behind even though I didn't want to. At first I wanted to replay mainly because of the last choice, but after some thinking I just let it go. Even though it was worded poorly, I went after the pact member who I thought would cause more havoc, which was probably Telltale's intention. Plus, knowing Telltale, I believe the remaining pact member who got left behind will show up later in the next episode and be like "Oi, you fuckers left me!", so no biggie.
At least I impressed all the pact members, so it's something.
I thought the whole episode was excellent, except for this bit in background text on the Gotham Media Feed: "There are very few things that are worth mentioning in articles like this as nobody seems to care." :-/ I do. I care. And there are a few typos here and there in the codex, but blah. Episode's a 9+ for me, great work.
Somehow, everyone mentioned in the epilogue was happy, satisfied, or (positively) worried, good guys and bad, so I'm threading an interesting line at the moment. Really interested in seeing Selina's role this season.
Tbh I feel leaving harley will work out better because who'd you rather have pissed at you her or bane?
If you look at it like that, then sure. But I'd rather have good relationships with characters I actually like. Bane is on the meh side right now, but of course they still have time to flesh him out.