Season 1 Discussion [Talk with some of the Wolf Season 2 team, reflect on S1 and give feedback, etc]
Nicole_M Former Telltale Staff
edited October 2017 in The Wolf Among Us
First of all I want to thank all of you for being such devoted fans of the series. Your support and enthusiasm has been incredible and we’re so excited to be bringing you a second season!
I’d like to take a page out of Alyssa’s book and pose some questions to you folks. As we reflect on the first season I’d love to hear your feedback on what you liked the most. This could be your favorite characters, themes, conversations, fights, or whatever you want to talk about. On the other side, what didn’t work for you? What could have been better?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Volunteer Mod edit: mostlypoptarts has requested people not post story ideas in particular.
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Hey guys! Thanks for stopping by on the forums!
Overall, in terms of the gameplay, I really liked the detective gameplay that Episode 1 had in particular, although I feel that the detective gameplay was kinda toned down from the ending scene in Episode 2 onwards. Instead of making puzzles that patronized the player with one blatantly easy answer (like the hotel room where it was obvious what was going on - Crane was infatuated with Snow and recreating her story), I liked the detective work in Episode 1 that was a bit more on the ambiguous side.
If you guys recall Rhy's echo eye from Tales from the Borderlands, I think you guys could reintroduce something similar with Bigby in Season 2, where he can use his "Wolf senses" to become more acutely aware of his surroundings with smell, hearing, etc.
Another interesting idea is that you guys could use the Relationship system from Batman: Enemy Within to have Bigby's relationship with the Fabletown community affect the story on a more fine scale, as well as some more puzzle gameplay with the investigations.
Overall, with Telltale's games - I feel that the approach of tailoring the gameplay to fit the story (instead of tailoring the story to fit the choice gameplay) results in some really interesting and unique ideas.
The atmosphere was something I really found compelling about Season 1. Lots of Telltale's games since Walking Dead Season 1 try to emulate comic art, but I feel that Wolf was the best about being distinct in doing so. I hope to see that Season 2 continues to keep its unique art style even with the jump in fidelity.
I really liked the ambiguity in choice making too! I'll add a bit more later, but I just wanted to get discussion going first.
Off topic: Do you guys mind if I update the title to specifically distinguish this is a thread with staff member involvement? It might get more attention (I also gave this thread a shout out in Telltale Talk!).
I liked the down time getting to know some of the characters. Drinking at the Trip Trap is a fond memory.
Best part about the combat and gameplay was the amount of options available. Do you smash the Woodsman into a comfy couch or the sink? Do you grab for an improvised weapon or use your hands? Left door or right door? Etc.
Go for it! Wasn't sure what to name it.
Hey guys thanks for doing this! I'd just liked to say that I really enjoyed the comic-style design like Blind said, from the character design to the environments. It would be fantastic if S2 has the same look as before. The detective-style hubs were awesome too, it'd be cool to hopefully see more of those in S2. Thanks again.
The fighting gameplay was one of the most enjoyable things for me too.
Yeah, the Trip Trap scene was a big standout from Episode 101. I loved the sardonic back-and-forth humor, followed by the fight scene.
Speaking of multiple genres, Episode 105 was also really good about seamlessly blending in multiple story genres in one short episode. Ep 5 gave us legal drama, interpersonal drama, psychological horror, action, and noir mystery all in one episode. That episode was definitely one of my favorite overall Telltale episodes.
From what I've observed with Alyssa's Walking Dead threads, she would make threads around a specific topic (hubs and puzzles, character relationships, choice screens, etc) - if you guys find you want to delve more into a specific topic, you are most welcome to make multiple threads later on after this if you find that you need to hone down discussion to a specific niche.
Don't worry about making several threads if you feel that you need to - this is discussion that is obviously beneficial both for you guys as staff and us as fans, so it won't be a problem!
Yeah! I liked the Season 1 gameplay, but I also want Telltale to experiment with more gameplay than just dialogue selection. They could draw a little inspiration from Tales from the Borderlands (Bigby could use his Wolf senses similar to Rhy's echo eye) and Batman (general detective puzzles, but obviously in a way that is more fittingly contextualized for Wolf)
For example, the Episode 102 interrogation with Dee or Woody would be really cool if Telltale expanded on that gameplay style in Season 2.
One thing I really liked from TWAU, was the handling of Prince Lawrence, he was a pretty neat determinant character. Plus, I liked that if you go to his apartment three different things can happen based on whether you lie, tell a half-truth or tell the truth (Lawrence stays silently in his chair and lives, Lawrence points the gun at Dee and demands to know what happened to his wife causing him to live and using the gun to try commiting suicide either resulting in living or not if Bigby interferes in time, respectively).
I'd definitely like to have a chance to catch up with the determinant characters, the aforementioned Lawrence and Dum.
For what I liked in Season 1 and would really like to have continued in Season 2 would be
-Playing as Bigby
-The Hubs were all really unique and fun to explore
Also for season 2, please make sure returning characters look the same. I really hope Season 2 models are really just more polygon models with sharper textures and not some weird new "remix" (kenny and jane) Also, please dont make season 2 for "New comers" just make a it a sequel that fans will enjoy, and new players can also enjoy, just dont build the game from a perspective of "The vast majority will be new comers" because its simply not true.
Also, it would be pretty cool if Bigby had a "smell" ability, kinda like Rhys' echo eye from Borderlands, Press Q and not some objects will appear with a "scent" for Bigby to smell and gain more details about the object, or event that happened, during hubs
I'm gonna be honest, the thing that made the game so damn memorable for me was the atmosphere of the whole thing. The urban locations, both those with and without that more mystic touch in them (like the business office). The color schemes in each one of those locations. The calm, soothing soundtrack (apart from action/tense scenes of course) which integrated perfectly with the mystery aspect of the game. It all went together very perfectly.
I liked the whole dealing with the Crooked man in episode 5. The whole uncertainty aspect around it. How he was talking his way out of it all until Nerissa came and lied. I liked his character and the overall plot. It was pretty complex and well made.
I particularly liked the Bigby's apartment scenes. Seeing the Big Bad Wolf during his down time talking with Colin and "resting", the one in episode 4 with Swineheart, Snow and Colin, Snow questioning Bigby's... methodology. They felt like calm, well written scenes. It felt well paced (not that the rest of the game didn't).
I think the only things I had contention with were episode 4 (I don't know why, but it seems to be unanimous) and the unresolved/dropped plot of the detective mundie that interrogated Bigby.
The themes that go with hiding from Mundies, due to lack of Glamour has always been an interesting concept to me. Like with Mr. Toad in Ep1.
I know that the detective was originally having a bigger role, but in the final product they didn't really introduce/present her as something big. It was a few minutes scene and since everyone in the whole precinct gets all the momories from that day erased, it didn't really feel like a loose thread.
Heya! Thank you so much for stopping by!
I think the one thing that made the first game so memorable to me is the atmosphere. There is such a strong sense of environment to Fabletown. It felt like such a strange place, yet it is so relatable because it still takes place in our world. The gritty darkness of the atmosphere seems to make everything feel a lot more real and impactful. Maybe a little more scene in Bigby's office, would be cool to have more scenes there, if it makes sense of course.
Now that I have mentioned Fabletown, the next thing that I liked were the characters. It is interesting to interact with characters that we knew from Fairy Tales and it further helps makes me feel interested in this world. But yeah, I greatly enjoy the interaction between the characters. I don't know why, but I greatly enjoyed the small moments in Episode 1 where Bigby talked to Colin in his apartment and Snow White in the taxi cab. So some moments like these are great.
Also please keep Bigby as the main character. I really love to play as him. He is such a cool character. He is also the character who has the most potential for interesting stories, since he must have done quite a lot of stuff during his time as Sheriff both on and behind the scenes. There is also the fact that Bigby still serve as a main link to the previous Season. Sure, the events of the previous season may or may not be referenced, but Bigby is still our link to that time so our attachment will remain if we play as him.
Now for some things that I didn't so much.
I think the short lengths of Episode 4 or 5 made things feel a little to rushed in my opinions. I still enjoy them, but I wish they were longer.
And that's about it, I can't think of something else that others posters haven't already said. I wish you guys good luck making Season 2. I will be buying and playing it. I really miss the world of Fables since the main comic ended years ago. So thank you for making Season 2.
Oh gosh....where do we start?
TWAU had amazing atmosphere...film noir with a very hard edge. Titty bars and prostitutes with all the trappings of financial slavery a lot of those situations include.
Bigby was the alpha dog and we loved him for it. He was not always fair...hell we could play him as a real prick...but that was the beauty of the game...Snow was his reason for being a better person....keep that dynamic alive.
VIOLENT FIGHTS....Not only were some gruesome...but they looked like they hurt.
A mystery wrapped in a box of social commentary is a hard thing to do right...the first game did it so well...how government failed the little people and they had no choice but to seek the not so tender care of the criminal under world...and see how the weight of the obligations to that under world made good people do and put up with horrible things.
DO NOT PC THIS UP...And this is coming from a bisexual woman...Bigby is the star...and we love him and the world he lives in...because on some level...we know that even if it is a game...that shit happens every day...and it makes us feel good that someone is taking down the scum.
I agree that Ep 4 was short, but although Ep 5 was also short - I didn't mind the short pace as it was a super high quality that put all of its minutes to good use. (I have a bit of a high standard for giving exceptions to not caring about shorter episodes, so I'd definitely still want to encourage longer episodes on average anyways).
First of all, thanks for asking!
In general, I liked the way Season 1 went. The "comic" feel is important, as well as the feeling that some characters are keeping secrets from others. It's really interesting to hear how everything appears from different viewpoints.
One thing I think could have been better is that I sometimes felt I was whisked away from what I was doing when I hit a particular hot spot. For example, I remember there's a picture of various characters, with some commentary whenever you select each one. When you find the right one, though, that scene is over, even if there are some characters you didn't have a chance to select. Whenever there is more to discover about a scene, even if it isn't that important to the story, I would like some way to stay at it, until I choose to move forward.
(I'm from the Sam & Max era at Telltale, and I really like the ability to look at everything in all the locations where I end up.)
Ditto on that! Some players like to explore hubs to the fullest extent that they can. Also, perhaps more clearly telegraphing what a player needs to click/do to advance the story (maybe via story dialogue, camera angles, etc) is worth considering. Also, on hub areas, adding more non essential items/areas to "Examine" would be cool.
Maybe you can even work in some light weight puzzles or other context sensitive interactions with your inventory items in hub areas, so that they serve more of a purpose instead of being mostly cosmetic like in your Walking Dead-era titles. Like, you don't have to go old-school point and click adventure game levels of having everything in your inventory be used on everything in the hub to figure out a puzzle - your modern games have items/actions in a hub only show up contextually, but you haven't yet done a lot of puzzles in the format. I think it would be neat if you guys had some puzzles in Wolf 2 with the inventory being used.
Let me start by the art style, which to this day is by far my favorite in any game I've ever played. I hope the changes in Season 2 won't be too radical, though I understand that some changes need to be done. I think the change between TWD Season 1 to TWD Season 2 was handled pretty well. The graphics were improved, but the overall feeling was still very much there. On the other hand, ANF was a bit of an overkill for me in terms of the art style. It bothered me way more than it should have, which ruined a big portion of the experience for me.
The intro to each episode where Bigby is walking down the streets was just god damn beautiful, there's no other way to put it. I hope there's one in Season 2 too (and this might go too far but I hope it has the same music, or at least be a variation of the original one). Even to this day when I see it, it still sends chills down to my spine.
Heck, even the menu was near perfect. Not too complicated, not too simple. It's a minor thing to some, but to me the menu screens in your games (before Batman) were always great and unique in their own way.
But what I ultimately liked the most about TWAU was the perfect balance between the action sequences and the slower character interaction parts. While I like the slower parts way more, the action sequences were done so damn well that I can't help but to enjoy them. Finding the balance between them is very important and I hope there's no fight scenes in S2 just for the sake of action, if you know what I mean. They are cool and all, but not necessary every second scene (S1 did a perfect job in this, I'm refering more to your recent games. Especially ANF).
Plot twists were made very well. I liked how we the players in the beginning felt like the identity of the killer was the main point of the story, but in the end it turned out to be something much more complex than that.
You guys have my trust. See you around.
I want us to adventure to The Farm and know about the conditions of problems that we heard in S1 and know how Toad and his Child is doing and what kind of things we will face this Season 2. I also like to know who we face off in this season two? We will face a uprising of Fables living the hard life? Or we will face any new challenges of the Sheriff we now protect and guard Fabletown and I hope we can find out more about Nerissa from last season.
Then why did the Tweedles have a file saying to keep an eye on her in a later episode?
Here’s a friendly Community Manager reminder:
Please do not post unsolicited ideas for the upcoming season.
It gets into really wonky legal territory, and I may have to edit it out of your comments.
Talking about what worked/didn’t work in Season 1 is fine, but any sort of “you could do this plotline” or story pitch for Season 2 is gonna give our legal team a heart attack... and I like them, so please don't do that.
Er, do my suggestions of potential new gameplay ideas count? If so, I can snip those.
The art style to me is the first thing I think of when TWAU comes up (well, that and the 'glass him' meme) so if you change that I don't care how good the game is - I won't be touching it.
Anyway, people here have already talked about the stuff they love about the game (that I agree with) so I'll mention some of the things I didn't like:
The mystery gets practically solved by itself, even if you miss multiple key items during the hub sections or intentionally give bad answers (Crane having an apple fetish for example, lol). Having multiple suspects that become available for questioning or even just able to point out things if you link evidence together would be a neat concept (and I think you did something similar with Batman, which I haven't played) and give players something to think and talk about for example. (Why was X here if they said they were doing Y? Nothing wrong with having red herrings either.) I also like Poogers555's idea of the 'smell' ability like Rhys's ECHO eye.
There isn't really any way for you to look at the evidence you've found and try to piece things together. TWAU has an inventory but we're not allowed to actively analyse the items. I guess there's the thing in the menu that gives you a biography of the fables characters but that's more of a 'here's who this character is and what their place is in the story' than a way for the player to think about what they've been told/given and how it can help them catch the criminal.
Hubs are always good and TWAU had plenty of them but I feel like some of them weren't very useful. Johann the Butcher had a lab with a lot of information but it didn't really add anything to the story or neccesarily help Bigby in any way (some leads won't always go anywhere, I understand that but in this case you had to make an uninformed choice of either the butchers or the pawnshop). Or maybe I'm just stupid, which in my defence I'll argue that the information wasn't telegraphed well enough.
That's really about it. TWAU was a incredible game with a fantastic soundtrack and visual style with a really well written morally grey protagonist, so if you're able to recapture that for the sequel then I have no doubt it'll be good. I hope this feedback was helpful to you.
Should be fine - doesn't get into anything too specific.
Before I start I want to say that many things have already been said.
I really want to see:
an interesting feature that added something more in TFTBL but it has always been little exploited in my opinion. With the potential of a new story based on solving a new mystery, it needs something to find important evidence for the case. Puzzle areas to solve through this skill. Some examples: see traces that people leave on the road, imprints left on objects, smells odours in the air, etc ...
I loved the TWD S1 hubs, gave you the opportunity to find some interesting object, explore the gaming area and above all have a lot of dialog options with characters and always find something more. I would also like to see some more choices on which path to take before and after.
Please reuse the same atmosphere of the first season, it is one of the things that attracted me more, bright and dark colors. The songs include much of the atmosphere that gave a sense of melancholy and loneliness that allowed me impersonate bigby.
I do not know what to add, I've always found the inventory a little-exploited feature. You could put the option to choose to hold an object or not or even to link them to solve some mistery.
And please bring back the option [glass him] for nostalgic people!
That's it for now, sorry if my english is not very well, hope you read this guys, you're the best!
My feedback on The Wolf Among Us Season 1: Voice Acting by Adam Harrington and the rest of the major cast was amazing. Adam Harrington did an amazing job voicing Bigby.
The gameplay was awesome but I wanted more investigation and I enjoyed the fighting and if we failed a QTE Bigby would take the hit and have marks on his character model such as when fighting the Woodsman in episode 1 that was a cool feature. Also for choices I enjoyed the overall dialogue with the choices representing good cop, neutral cop, and bad cop or silent.
The story was great I enjoyed it a lot. For Season 2 I hope that our choices will impact the story a bit more.
More detective scenes for Bigby would be nice.
Maybe some larger hubs would be nice as it would give us more details about the world the Fables inhabit. Also items that we pick up or find should impact some dialogue or relationships. Such as when we give Faith the matchbook in the first episode it should make the characters react differently to Bigby based on whether or not we give them items.
Thank you TellTale for listening to feedback from me and many more of your fans it is not something that is done by other gaming companies but I appreciate your team approaching the fans for feedback on one of your products, it shows that you still care about your games!
Hi, so I was thinking about this topic the entire day at work to give the best answer as I could, here we go:
Undeniably one of the key features of this game and why it was so appealing to so many people is that it was seeping the 1980's neo-noir. Many things contributed to that - the art style, the music, but also writing, directing and acting was crucial when it came to nailing down that incredible noir feeling. The game UI was also contributing to that more so than in the other TTG titles I think, the main menu is in my opinion the best as it gets you into the mood pretty much instantly with the atmospheric music, the font, and Bigby walking like a badass that he is. I hope that the UI will be at least somewhat recreated in the new season.
As mentioned above, a big part of nailing down the amazing 80's noir atmosphere was the art-style. To be honest, I don't think I am the only one to say that even today TWAU is still the best looking TTG game. It was simple, yet sophisticated and it didn't need 200k poly models and 4k textures or 200 shaders to get that comic-book feeling just right. The dark purple / red colour palette is also that makes it almost iconic, I just loved everything about that art-style. One of the biggest concerns for many people (especially after the past few TTG titles) is how character models are going to be handled on the new engine. Needless to say, ANF Kenny and Jane situation caused quite a bit of a fire in the community and probably a lot of us are worried that there is at least a glimmer of chance that poor art-style direction may lead to another disaster like that. Hopefully that won't happen, but in general you could literally copy-paste models from the season 1 and I'm pretty sure not a whole lot of people would complain. Only and I mean ONLY raise the polycount and texture resoution, do not remake from scratch please.
Characters & Decisions
What I liked about the TWAU the most were probably the characters. A lot of them felt relatable, depending on what kind of person you are (at least that was my impression). The relationships felt natural, and one of the biggest and best things about the game is that your relations with other fables were up to you. I always thought that choices in TWAU are not as much as what consequences of your direct actions will be, but who your Bigby is. It was great in a sense that the game is not just about solving a mystery, there is much more depth to it as you are trying to catch the killer and shape up these relationships on the side, making your Bigby become either The Sheriff or The Wolf.
Acting & Directing
This is a bit more technical talk, but TWAU is still probably one of top favorites when it comes to the story and how it was brought to life by the actors. Adam and Erin nailed their respective characters almost too well, and so did everyone else who contributed. I'm not sure how to relay that with words, but you can feel a certain depth to the story and the characters, it's not just one-dimensional performance, you can see different layers to these characters ex. Bigby knocking Dee's teeth out in one scene, but feeling compassionate for Snow in the next one. This complexity makes the game that much more believable, despite being a fantasy about fables living in our world, it does contribute to escalating immersion into a whole new level. I don't know how Adam and Erin did this, but I want to go as far as saying that this game would not be the same at all without these two.
To be honest, this is one of my fav games of all time so I genuinely do not have a whole lot that I disliked. The episode length could've been slightly extended especially for the later episodes, I could wait a bit longer between each ep to get a longer one in return, if it will be of a high quality. Other than that, as many have said maybe involving player in solving the mystery a little bit more actively would be a good idea, Batman did a good job with mixing it up a bit so having something more than "Point and click this to progress the story automatically" may be a good thing. There is not much else to say from my end, so it's really down to NOT messing up something that is already perfect.
I give my love to everyone who worked on the Season 1, and I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for the team who will be working on Season 2. Cheers!
Posting for the first time in months to say that I loved Nerissa and Woody. That's all.
A good point that I think someone else mentioned that I want to reiterate; I liked the fight scenes that allowed you to customize how the fight plays out, like the fight with Woodsman in Episode 101.
Also, on an off topic note - I have added a "Talking with Telltale" tag to this thread. When Staff members make more threads like these (or Alyssa's Walking Dead Season 4 Feedback threads) in the future, staff members are free to apply this tag to their thread so that people can more easily find the feedback threads and keep their eyes peeled for new threads.
One of the best parts of TWAU was the style of it. Just the overall atmosphere, tone, aesthetics, it worked perfectly. The neon colors, sharp shadows, the music, everything about that worked pretty much perfectly.
Gameplay-wise I suppose expanding on the detective stuff is something S1 could've done, the fact that there are no real story consequences is a little weird.
I'm gonna go out of my way to say this because I think it should be true of Telltale's Series' across the board but game over screens for the QTEs aren't good. In general, the QTEs feel like more of an annoyance than anything else, so getting a game over screen for missing some is just really frustrating. And, I might be in the minority, but in this case, I do think that less gameplay would be better, just let the story play out, don't interrupt it with unnecessary gameplay. Unpopular opinion, I know, but, eh
Okay, so, I've never gotten a confirmation on this at all, so I don't know if this was the intent of the original writers for Season one, but Wolf1 always read as sort of allegorical for systemic issues in society to me. You know, government corruption, the gap between the rich and the poor, oppression of minorities, crime, abuse of power by those in positions of authority. The writing from that particular reading I've always found to be brilliant, and I was honestly more invested in that stuff than the detective story. So, if those themes or ideas could be expanded on in Wolf2, that'd be a dream come true. I love the whole thing of the surface level story being a murder mystery, but the subtext beneath being an allegorical critic of systemic issues, and I hope that general format of a genre-fiction surface level story running parallel to a more thematically deep story in the subtext continues.
Also, please don't give a definitive answer to Faith/Nerrisa mystery. It works better being left ambiguously. (though personally, I believe it was Faith the whole time using a Nerrisa glamour).
I've got more to say, so I'll probably return to this thread later. It's late rn and I'm tired :P
Oh, one last thing! Specific message for Nicole Martinez if she reads this thread: You're one of my favorite writers working for Telltale! I hope you're the lead writer for the second season of Wolf and I can't wait to see what you and the other writers working on this create!
I think a simple fighting system similar to Minecraft Season two's could be fun.
Oh yeah, something else I wanted to point out - Wolf Among Us was pretty good at having a unique art style among all the Telltale games that try to emulate comic art styles, whereas the other post-Walking Dead Telltale series (Batman, Borderlands, etc) with comic art kind of veered more towards emulating Walking Dead.
This isn't so much of a Wolf specific point of feedback as it is a general point of feedback for any other potential future games; I think it would go further towards making each game's presentation unique if the games strive more towards having an art style that tries to emulate the source material - even in the more fine minutiae, instead of taking the Walking Dead approach of having sketch lines on characters and environments. Wolf was the best game about making itself separate and distinct in its art style; it was also good about emulating the source material in the smaller touches, such as hard shadows, saturated ink styling, inverted shadows, etc.
If you guys work on other comic games down the line, or more Batman/Walking Dead/etc, I think it would be cool if you guys took the Wolf approach of art design where you made each comic-styled game more unique and really paid attention to the fine minutiae of specific comic artists and how they would handle things like shadows, background environment textures, etc.
I really hope the art style stays the same with all the bright neon colours and whatnot. I'd just love it if every scene and frame would look like it was ripped straight out of a comic book panel, similar to the original reveal screenshots for Season 1.
Season 1 had moments of this but didn't quite do it due to the low res/poly models.
Yes that is another thing I liked about Season 1 the art style the 80's neon lights noir art style is unique and not really used often in videogames. I just hope for bigger hubs and more character interactions while in hub areas. Also making items we pick up change certain aspects of the game.
Aww thank you