Sadly. There were some good characters, though.
I know that they told us some backstories on the AMA, but we should have learned about the characters in-game!!
Oh for sure!! We most certainly should have known within the game, not the AMA. That to me feels like they had to make something up because they lacked imagination when making the game
Sadly. There were some good characters, though.
I know that they told us some backstories on the AMA, but we should have learned about the characters in-game!!
Oh for sure!! We most certainly should have known within the game, not the AMA. That to me feels like they had to make something up because they lacked imagination when making the game
Honestly, i could write better episodes and characters than Telltale with what we were given in Season 3! I really wanted it to be good but have never felt so let down. Literally every character had no development, no background story except for Javier and David.
I really wanted it to be good but have never felt so let down.
Not even in Season 2?
Literally every character had no development, no background story except for Javier and David.
Well, to be completely fair here, I wouldn't exactly say there was no development so much as very little notable development. In which case, only Gabe and determinately Conrad really got any. Oh and ANF!Clementine, I guess.
Honestly, i could write better episodes and characters than Telltale with what we were given in Season 3! I really wanted it to be good but … morehave never felt so let down. Literally every character had no development, no background story except for Javier and David.
Sadly. There were some good characters, though.
I know that they told us some backstories on the AMA, but we should have learned about the characters in-game!!
Honestly....ANF was a mistake. Introducing new characters, one of them the main without us knowing them was just a bad idea. It is too bad because the characters did have potential.
Honestly, i could write better episodes and characters than Telltale with what we were given in Season 3! I really wanted it to be good but … morehave never felt so let down. Literally every character had no development, no background story except for Javier and David.
Nothing, really. Just it's one of the nicer things I've heard said about "Janiacs", actually.
I never really considered myself one, anyway. It was just that the two other options were Kenny and Luke, and she looked positively golden compared to both of those idiots.
Well that and she was fully behind David's plan(wish they'd did more with and them), associated the devastation with not being to save Mariana(before Ida came up even), and she seemed to have a thing about clinging to her relationships and perceived responsibilities in general.
I suppose. I just wish Kate's words and actions there felt more natural, as opposed to just setting the stage for the finale. (if you can call it that)
None taken. In fact, I find it a fascinating comment.
Oh-ho?
Or ever. The only reason she wanted to save Richmond is because s… morehe felt guilty.
Well that and she was fully behind David's plan(wish they'd did more with and them), associated the devastation with not being to save Mariana(before Ida came up even), and she seemed to have a thing about clinging to her relationships and perceived responsibilities in general.
Not that that's a bad thing, mind you. Just not a particularly clear-headed one.
Amen! I had a sickly feeling the first time i heard we’d be controlling a new protagonist but i didn’t worry too much because they said we’d be playing as Clem as well. WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT THAT WAS!!! They lied as usual. We didn’t get to “play” as Clem at all in Season 3! A few Q and E’s or dialogue choosing i certainly do not call gameplay! I believe at the time they said Javier and Clem’s gameplay would be shared equally. EQUALLY? LOL! Ugh.
You are right though. All the S3 characters could have had so much more potential if the damn writers knew what they were doing and didn’t rewrite scripts every damn second or if they had used some damn imagination to create some back stories to make them remotely interesting.
Honestly....ANF was a mistake. Introducing new characters, one of them the main without us knowing them was just a bad idea. It is too bad because the characters did have potential.
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs and character interaction. Basically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
Well, to be completely fair here, I wouldn't exactly say there was no development so much as very little notable development. In which case, only Gabe and determinately Conrad really got any. Oh and ANF!Clementine, I guess.
But did they though?? What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son? What do we know about Conrad apart from the fact he had a child once? How did Gabe develop through the game? How did Tripp and Eleanor meet? What do we know about their lives? Their past jobs? Family?
There was just nothing interesting about any character.
Also on a random note, to this day i still think one of the worst things Telltale ever did for Season 3 is how they made that guy who stabbed Javier have absolutely NO facial expressions during the struggle. It’s so so fucking awful that i piss myself laughing at the thought. Anyone else remember that? It’s like the laziest shit ever.
I really wanted it to be good but have never felt so let down.
Not even in Season 2?
Literally every character had no developm… moreent, no background story except for Javier and David.
Well, to be completely fair here, I wouldn't exactly say there was no development so much as very little notable development. In which case, only Gabe and determinately Conrad really got any. Oh and ANF!Clementine, I guess.
Nothing, really. Just it's one of the nicer things I've heard said about "Janiacs", actually.
That's saying a fuckin lot.
I never really considered myself one, anyway.
Really now? Huh....
It was just that the two other options were Kenny and Luke, and she looked positively golden compared to both of those idiots.
Er-her-her-her....disagree.
Though icidentally, that just helps bring what a shallow plot device, attempt at fanservice/pandering, and/or ratings trap Jane is to forefront in a straightforward manner. "Remember Clementine, when push comes to shove, you can make it on your own--which is exactly why you should be with me!"
I suppose. I just wish Kate's words and actions there felt more natural, as opposed to just setting the stage for the finale. (if you can call it that)
Yeah, well, maybe they shouldn't have benched/kitchened her before she could really do much of anything character-wise and then hastily attempt to make up for it at the eleventh hour. In the mess of an episode that is From the Gallows, no less!
Oh-ho?
Nothing, really. Just it's one of the nicer things I've heard said about "Janiacs", actually.
I never really considered myse… morelf one, anyway. It was just that the two other options were Kenny and Luke, and she looked positively golden compared to both of those idiots.
Well that and she was fully behind David's plan(wish they'd did more with and them), associated the devastation with not being to save Mariana(before Ida came up even), and she seemed to have a thing about clinging to her relationships and perceived responsibilities in general.
I suppose. I just wish Kate's words and actions there felt more natural, as opposed to just setting the stage for the finale. (if you can call it that)
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs and character interaction. Basically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
Yeah, pretty accurate.
But did they though??
...Yes?
What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son?
He fuckin loves pudding. Not as notable as Marianna literally praying for chocolate bars, but it was still a thing.
He has a small, but considerable tendency to [over]idealize people
He has a knack for tabletop games, from the typical checkers to the relatively obscure euchre(which I never heard of before, btw)
He is heavily implied to have something resembling an inferiority complex
He's generally at his happiest when he feels his presence and contributions to the group is helpful/appreciated
...I really grew to like Gabe by the end. No homo/pedo.
> What do we know about Conrad apart from the fact he had a child once?
...Tripp's known him for years? Okay, fair point.
The AMA did give him a fair bit more.
> How did Gabe develop through the game?
He openly acknowledges that he needs to "grow up" by being more active and helpful in the group(though he was already somewhat persnickety and self-aware before hand). This comes with an increased capacity to work cooperatively with the others, be more open about his feelings, tolerate conflicting views, accept the empathy/concern others show to him(especially with Kate), and think things through before acting.
He's also forced to acknowledge that David isn't as perfect as he's always considered him to be and accepts that he has flaws/issues. Even better, he actually attempts to work with this by attempting to appeal to David's better traits on his terms rather than try to force his own scenario like he initially did with Kate. It doesn't really work out, mind you, but.it's still a considerable change of pace.
How did Tripp and Eleanor meet?
One night stand, essentially.
What do we know about their lives?
They live in Prescott as the guardian and nurse, respectively.
Their past jobs?
Eleanor was an EMT.
The AMA reveals that Tripp worked as a dockworker. And little else.
Family?
Up until sometime before the game was gonna be shipped, Joan.
There was just nothing interesting about any character.
Again, I'm inclined to disagree with that absolute, but to each their own.
Hell, numerous people have claimed to find David an interesting or even "complex" character and I just had to take their word for it.
Also on a random note, to this day i still think one of the worst things Telltale ever did for Season 3 is how they made that guy who stabbed Javier have absolutely NO facial expressions during the struggle. It’s so so fucking awful that i piss myself laughing at the thought. Anyone else remember that? It’s like the laziest shit ever.
Ah, yes, The Specialist, or as I initially called him, "Kelvin." Good times, bad food.
So, two things on that note:
1. I'll take your Specialist and raise you one Fern.
2. The Bossman did a post detailing this in the...Details thread: That was actually a legitimate bug in the last two episode's programming that caused certain character's facial animations to not trigger properly(or not at all). It also affected Lingard, Rafa, Clint, and especially Fern. Telltale later released an update/patch that fixed it.
Not even in Season 2?
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs … moreand character interaction. Basically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
Well, to be completely fair here, I wouldn't exactly say there was no development so much as very little notable development. In which case, only Gabe and determinately Conrad really got any. Oh and ANF!Clementine, I guess.
But did they though?? What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son? What do we know about Conrad apart from the fact he had a child once? How did Gabe develop through the game? How did Tripp and Eleanor meet? What do we know about their lives? Their past jobs? Family?
There was just nothing interesting about any character.
Also on a random note, to this day i still… [view original content]
He fuckin loves pudding. Not as notable as Marianna literally praying for chocolate bars, but it was still a thing.
He loves pudding yet there could have been a story to go with how he developed a liking for it. You know? Something more interesting than just saying it. Why didn’t Telltale write him to say “i remember dad getting me this pudding once because this or that etc, something for us to imagine.
He has a small, but considerable tendency to [over]idealize people
But doesn’t he then completely change in the episodes following? To me it’s like his character wasn’t consistent at all, like he changed personality each episode because to me it felt like Telltale didn’t know what to do with him.
He has a knack for tabletop games, from the typical checkers to the relatively obscure euchre(which I never heard of before, btw)
Again that’s fine and all but why not a backstory to do with it? Or was it mentioned? I rarely gave a shit when playing S3 as you know so i may have missed it. I remember him mentioning that though but again why couldn’t Telltale give a bit more for us to go on than that he had knack for it? How did he get good? He could have said “i used to love playing board games (we in the UK say board games instead of table top lol) with Mariana, she hated losing”, you know what i mean? Something humorous or something that can make me look at that scene and enjoy it and that Mariana got a mention. That’s why Season 1 succeeded a lot when it came to talking about events from the past. We were told something like for example, Clem learned to do leaf rubbings taught by her teacher Miss Moore at a botanical garden, that gave us a scenario to imagine that scene and it’s nice.
He is heavily implied to have something resembling an inferiority complex
I guess this is one thing that remains present through the game but i still feel his character development was all over the place. Kind of like a roller coaster, up and down, up and down.
He's generally at his happiest when he feels his presence and contributions to the group is helpful/appreciated
Lol isn’t anyone? Haha but ok if you say so.
Tripp's known him for years? Okay, fair point. The AMA did give him a fair bit more.
As @Fangirl101 said, we should have learned his backstory (and everyone else’s) in game not the AMA! It’s like she said, it’s as if they made it up on the spot and that is bad of them it really is. It proves how badly they fucked up.
He openly acknowledges that he needs to "grow up" by being more active and helpful in the group(though he was already somewhat persnickety and self-aware before hand). This comes with an increased capacity to work cooperatively with the others, be more open about his feelings, tolerate conflicting views, accept the empathy/concern others show to him(especially with Kate), and think things through before acting. He's also forced to acknowledge that David isn't as perfect as he's always considered him to be and accepts that he has flaws/issues. Even better, he actually attempts to work with this by attempting to appeal to David's better traits on his terms rather than try to force his own scenario like he initially did with Kate. It doesn't really work out, mind you, but.it's still a considerable change of pace.
I’m not saying i don’t believe you as this could very well be the case but would it be too much trouble for you to share what scenes they are possibly in picture form and quotes? That would help me understand the scenes you refer to. That would be greatly appreciated though time consuming i imagine.
One night stand, essentially.
“Ooh details Tripp? Oh nothing else? It’s ok Mr Kenny No2 (or 3 if you count David), it wasn’t your fault that you had no real backstory, that was Telltales lol”
They live in Prescott as the guardian and nurse, respectively.
I actually meant before the apocalypse or before Prescott. Apologies for not being clearer. When i talk about character development, i always want to know the past lives of any character because again as i said before, it gives me some imagination to work with. I can picture a scene and it helps me work towards connecting to said character. An example, Omid and Christa lived in an apartment in San Fransisco and they owned a cat. Omid was obviously a reckless driver having his licence suspended twice, Christa’s parents owned a house similar to the one with the dead couple and her parents liked kung fu movies. I know all this isn’t a big thing, but i really like it when i learn these type of things. It helps me relate a lot more to the characters. That’s why i wish Season 3 was written better.
Eleanor was an EMT.
Great but once again, why not explain more like how and why did she want to become an EMT? Why not make an interesting story like she wanted to originally become an astronaut or something out of the blue like that? Or give her parents a mention, did she have a brother or sister? What hobbies does/did she like? This again applies to any character. Something for us to bond over them with or just something that makes them more interesting instead of plain boring!
The AMA reveals that Tripp worked as a dockworker. And little else
It shouldn’t have been difficult to add a few fucking lines of dialogue to explain he worked as a dockworker. After all, Telltale did say the episode was SO BIG THAT THEY COULDN’T FIT IT INTO ONE EPISODE!!! Ugh that still pisses me off beyond belief.
Up until sometime before the game was gonna be shipped, Joan.
More rewrites. Typical. That may have even be interesting if that had stayed in the final cut.
Again, I'm inclined to disagree with that absolute, but to each their own.
And you are entitled to disagree.
Hell, numerous people have claimed to find David an interesting or even "complex" character and I just had to take their word for it.
David was just Telltale’s pathetic attempt to make another Kenny, except badly written most of the time.
The Bossman did a post detailing this in the...Details thread: That was actually a legitimate bug in the last two episode's programming that caused certain character's facial animations to not trigger properly(or not at all).
Ah i did not know this. Thank god for that!
I don’t think i got the bugs from the other characters but i definitely did with the bearded guy. I thought to myself how awful it was the first time and i was surprised that Telltale would have been so lazy (even for them) to not make facial expressions on the character. So thanks for clearing that up. I might replay it to see if it has indeed been fixed.
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs and character interaction. Bas… moreically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
Yeah, pretty accurate.
But did they though??
...Yes?
What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son?
* He fuckin loves pudding. Not as notable as Marianna literally praying for chocolate bars, but it was still a thing.
* He has a small, but considerable tendency to [over]idealize people
* He has a knack for tabletop games, from the typical checkers to the relatively obscure euchre(which I never heard of before, btw)
* He is heavily implied to have something resembling an inferiority complex
* He's generally at his happiest when he feels his presence and contributions to the group is helpful/app… [view original content]
She annoyed me the first time. But then again I was dumb teenager, and I was afraid of any females that exhibited masculine traits or characteristics. And boy was I a dumb Kennyfan. But I realized sucking up to him when he always treats you (either Lee or Clem) like shit is just a sign of mental illness, or at least stockholm syndrome on the part of the player.
"Remember Clementine, when push comes to shove, you can make it on your own--which is exactly why you should be with me!"
what is a character arc? We've been over this already. Jane has a fabulously simple but poignant character arc.
Nothing, really. Just it's one of the nicer things I've heard said about "Janiacs", actually.
That's saying a fuckin lot.
I n… moreever really considered myself one, anyway.
Really now? Huh....
It was just that the two other options were Kenny and Luke, and she looked positively golden compared to both of those idiots.
Er-her-her-her....disagree.
Though icidentally, that just helps bring what a shallow plot device, attempt at fanservice/pandering, and/or ratings trap Jane is to forefront in a straightforward manner. "Remember Clementine, when push comes to shove, you can make it on your own--which is exactly why you should be with me!"
I suppose. I just wish Kate's words and actions there felt more natural, as opposed to just setting the stage for the finale. (if you can call it that)
Yeah, well, maybe they shouldn't have benched/kitchened her before she could really do much of anything character-… [view original content]
About the specialist... man, talk about breaking something by trying to fix what isn't broken. (I just tried to elaborate on this in a thread I made.)
Do you remember anything that bad happening in season 1 or 2? I mean, there was invisible Duck, but that never actually happened to me.
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs and character interaction. Bas… moreically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
Yeah, pretty accurate.
But did they though??
...Yes?
What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son?
* He fuckin loves pudding. Not as notable as Marianna literally praying for chocolate bars, but it was still a thing.
* He has a small, but considerable tendency to [over]idealize people
* He has a knack for tabletop games, from the typical checkers to the relatively obscure euchre(which I never heard of before, btw)
* He is heavily implied to have something resembling an inferiority complex
* He's generally at his happiest when he feels his presence and contributions to the group is helpful/app… [view original content]
I am really sorry but the last thing i want to do is to bring up a Kenny argument but i have to reply to this:
But I realized sucking up to him when he always treats you (either Lee or Clem) like shit is just a sign of mental illness, or at least stockholm syndrome on the part of the player.
Mental illness? Stockholm syndrome? So every person who sided with Kenny suffer with those things do they?
First of all Stockholm syndrome is when a hostage becomes affectionate or trustworthy to their captor over time. When did Kenny take Clementine or Lee hostage?
Now to the “mentally ill” comment. I assume this is more about Season 2 Kenny yes? Well you can think Kenny is mentally ill if you like but the fact that he clearly knows what he was doing during the Wellington scene clearly deflates that view quite frankly because a mentally ill person would not do or have the thinking capacity to do what he did. I also think you should perhaps look at it from this perspective, which is this, if you were Kenny, after being alone for many many months, you meet a woman who ultimately saves your life and becomes your new girlfriend as you both eventually find a ski lodge and live a seemingly happy life, only for a group of people to show up that are being chased by a mad man, you’re taken hostage, forced to do hard labour, get your eye bashed in, your new girlfriend later dies, you end up stranded in the middle of nowhere, freezing cold, then the stress of helping a pregnant woman deliver her baby, then the stress and responsibility of helping care for that baby after his mother dies, trying to find the baby food and water as well as somewhere warm and safe. Finally, a fucked up woman (regardless of her intent of what she was trying to do) decided to make you believe the baby you cared so much about is dead, knowing how much it meant to you, knowing how angry you’d get, fucking with your emotions,using sociopathic type behaviour, tell me, how would you feel after everything i just said?? Just picture yourself in Kenny’s shoes for a moment. After all of what i said, that would make most people fricken angry, that i am sure of. Most would have probably committed suicide or broke down and been unable to “cease to function”. And i think Kenny only tried to kill Jane after she slashed him with her knife and charged towards him outside. Before that it was nothing more than an aggressive fist fight.
I know you will probably disagree and disregard what i said which is fine, but i wanted to share that view with you and why i disagree.
I’d also like to add that he doesn’t “always” treat you like shit. He is honest with his feelings when someone like Lee or anyone else doesn’t agree with him and depending on the situation as far as i am concerned, i don’t blame him. There needs to be more people (in this case, game characters) like Kenny who tells you exactly what you don’t want to hear. Sure it comes across as asshole type behaviour but again, to me, it’s honesty. If he kept quiet, smiled or was just a typical Yes Man, then that’s just someone who is two faced or someone who “sucks up” to the opinion of the other person. There are always 2 sides to a story/opinion so what makes Lee’s, Clementines or other characters views more important than Kenny’s? Again i am asking this from “his” point of view. I am not saying he is always right about things because in my opinion, he’s not. But please tell me that? I just don’t think thats fair to say players who suck up to him have a mental illness. I could give you a thousand reasons as to why i feel that is wrong.
That's saying a fuckin lot.
I know.
Really now? Huh....
She annoyed me the first time. But then again I was dumb teen… moreager, and I was afraid of any females that exhibited masculine traits or characteristics. And boy was I a dumb Kennyfan. But I realized sucking up to him when he always treats you (either Lee or Clem) like shit is just a sign of mental illness, or at least stockholm syndrome on the part of the player.
"Remember Clementine, when push comes to shove, you can make it on your own--which is exactly why you should be with me!"
what is a character arc? We've been over this already. Jane has a fabulously simple but poignant character arc.
He's a hypocrite. Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
He talks a big game, but makes Lee and Clementine do everything.
And he treats you like crap if you don't agree to do everything 100 percent his way and act like his servant.
I am really sorry but the last thing i want to do is to bring up a Kenny argument but i have to reply to this:
But I realized sucking … moreup to him when he always treats you (either Lee or Clem) like shit is just a sign of mental illness, or at least stockholm syndrome on the part of the player.
Mental illness? Stockholm syndrome? So every person who sided with Kenny suffer with those things do they?
First of all Stockholm syndrome is when a hostage becomes affectionate or trustworthy to their captor over time. When did Kenny take Clementine or Lee hostage?
Now to the “mentally ill” comment. I assume this is more about Season 2 Kenny yes? Well you can think Kenny is mentally ill if you like but the fact that he clearly knows what he was doing during the Wellington scene clearly deflates that view quite frankly because a mentally ill person would not do or have the thinking capacity to do what he did. I also think you should pe… [view original content]
You could have at least countered my points in my last post instead of disregarding it dude! sigh
He's a hypocrite.
Explain why you think he is. What scene? What was hypocritical? Make me understand your view?
Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
Again, details? Explain what particular scene you are referring to? And don’t say “all the time” or something like that because we know that isn’t true. When Kenny “takes something out” on someone, 90% of the time he actually doesn’t mean it and is just his way of getting his frustration out which isn’t right and of course shouldn’t but it is understandable as to why. Like on the train to Lee for is example, he was very upset that his son was dying and couldn’t accept it and yes he couldn’t handle it which is totally understandable unless you know what it feels like to lose a child, but then, everyone is different. He said some mean things on the train but you know he didn’t mean it hence why the player has the option to knock sense into him for him to realise the situation. What a lot of people (especially Kenny haters)!fail to realise is that when you talk him down instead of fight on the train you see that the reason Kenny is angry/upset is that the guilt of Shawn Greene’s death has followed him the whole time and shares how deeply he regrets it to which Lee says all the right things to him so that he doesn’t blame himself about it. I really loved that scene.
He talks a big game, but makes Lee and Clementine do everything.
The reason Lee and Clem “do everything” is because if they didn’t then the player wouldn’t have any gameplay to enjoy at all would they? Also it’s funny how you say Kenny talks a big game when also none of the other non playable characters do jack shit and gets Lee/Clem to do everything too, especially in Season 2. Please explain the scenes you are describing that he “talks a big game” please?
And he treats you like crap if you don't agree to do everything 100 percent his way and act like his servant.
I’ll copy and paste what i said in my first post about this seeing as you bypassed it:
he doesn’t “always” treat you like shit. He is honest with his feelings when someone like Lee or anyone else doesn’t agree with him and depending on the situation as far as i am concerned, i don’t blame him. There needs to be more people (in this case, game characters) like Kenny who tells you exactly what you don’t want to hear. Sure it comes across as asshole type behaviour but again, to me, it’s honesty. If he kept quiet, smiled or was just a typical Yes Man, then that’s just someone who is two faced or someone who “sucks up” to the opinion of the other person. There are always 2 sides to a story/opinion so what makes Lee’s, Clementines or other characters views more important than Kenny’s? Again i am asking this from “his” point of view. I am not saying he is always right about things because in my opinion, he’s not. But please tell me that? I just don’t think thats fair to say players who suck up to him have a mental illness. I could give you a thousand reasons as to why i feel that is wrong.
Kenny never forces you to “be his servant”, sure he disagrees but he never forces you to something you don’t want to do. He’s just very vocal about it as i said above. He’s not afraid of speaking his mind and that is what you and most of the other haters can’t stand. That is a realistic human trait right there Louche.
So any chance you could re-read my original post and reply to each section i made? I would appreciate it.
He's a hypocrite. Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
He talks a big game, but makes Lee and Clementine do everythin… moreg.
And he treats you like crap if you don't agree to do everything 100 percent his way and act like his servant.
You could have at least countered my points in my last post instead of disregarding it dude! sigh
He's a hypocrite.
Explain wh… morey you think he is. What scene? What was hypocritical? Make me understand your view?
Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
Again, details? Explain what particular scene you are referring to? And don’t say “all the time” or something like that because we know that isn’t true. When Kenny “takes something out” on someone, 90% of the time he actually doesn’t mean it and is just his way of getting his frustration out which isn’t right and of course shouldn’t but it is understandable as to why. Like on the train to Lee for is example, he was very upset that his son was dying and couldn’t accept it and yes he couldn’t handle it which is totally understandable unless you know what it feels like to lose a child, but then, everyone is different. He said some mean things on the train… [view original content]
Javier and Clementine's dynamic
(Ignore this, I'm not done)
One of the main sources of discussion since the first minute long teaser was on the nature of the team up between Clementine and the newcomer Javier Garcia. Many assumed that and, as the game went into official promotion mode in anticipation from the game's release, this seemed to indeed be the case. Some seemed to think that the teaser having Javier hand Clementine another bullet meant that he was withholding her ammo to keep her under his control. While I always though that was absolutely ridiculous conclusion, it did seem like a pragmatic survival strategy and a clever way to show if there was any trust issues. One of the initial reasons I personally disliked Mariana was because her very existence ultimately served to cheapen the already disappointing dychotomy by inherently making Clementine a Replacement Goldfish, not to mention keeping him from being distinct by immediately establishing a Lee parallel in him early in the game. . . .
Aw, I remember this. Back when Javi didn't have the backpack. They are in Prescott! Good memories. I was having all of these theories and thoughts...
I recently recalled certain stuff that was said the game and Javier(and Clementine):
Javier and Clementine would be very similar and very different at same time characters/people.
Javier would experience similar loss to Clementine's. I assume that he was supposed to lose a lot of people.
There would be a subplot which was going to be about finding out everything that has happened to Clementine after Season 2 from Javier's POV.
It was months ago so I don't remember where I read this.
Wait a minute! Weren't you going to make a post about Tripp as well? You piled up all of that stuff...
Javier and Clementine's dynamic
(Ignore this, I'm not done)
One of the main sources of discussion since the first minute long teaser was… more on the nature of the team up between Clementine and the newcomer Javier Garcia. Many assumed that and, as the game went into official promotion mode in anticipation from the game's release, this seemed to indeed be the case.
Some seemed to think that the teaser having Javier hand Clementine another bullet meant that he was withholding her ammo to keep her under his control. While I always though that was absolutely ridiculous conclusion, it did seem like a pragmatic survival strategy and a clever way to show if there was any trust issues.
One of the initial reasons I personally disliked Mariana was because her very existence ultimately served to cheapen the already disappointing dychotomy by inherently making Clementine a Replacement Goldfish, not to mention keeping him from being distinct by immediately establishing a Lee parallel in him early in the game.
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I've always felt the Luke and Sarah (Sarah esp, always kept away from the others, kept in the dark by her father) were wasted characters as well as Carver too, I would have liked to things went to a slow build knowing you have to escape, but are kept there for a while longer (maybe a few episodes, with carver attacking with each escape attempt, maybe seeing all this forces Bonnie to act against caver, possibly being killed or escaping with you as you make your escape with her, I could go on, but I think you get my point
I've always felt the Luke and Sarah (Sarah esp, always kept away from the others, kept in the dark by her father) were wasted characters
Yeah, those two are the biggest ones besides maybe Christa in Season 2.
as well as Carver too,
...He could've been a far better character, yes.
I would have liked to things went to a slow build knowing you have to escape, but are kept there for a while longer
I've seen a number of people say that and yes I definitely agree. That episode was so weak in part because it didn't give much time for anything to really be explored or sink in.
I've always felt the Luke and Sarah (Sarah esp, always kept away from the others, kept in the dark by her father) were wasted characters as … morewell as Carver too, I would have liked to things went to a slow build knowing you have to escape, but are kept there for a while longer (maybe a few episodes, with carver attacking with each escape attempt, maybe seeing all this forces Bonnie to act against caver, possibly being killed or escaping with you as you make your escape with her, I could go on, but I think you get my point
Thanks for the agreements, I also wish that Clem showing Sarah about guns in ep 2 would have lead to something, but no... in the escape from Howe's I also wished they didn't have to have t use the guts idea, why not use the Van you were moved to Howe's in, you would have had t eventually leave it, and made a choice who to help, and maybe it would have lead to Carlos, and Sarita getting attacked still, season 2, and 3 really for that matter were disappointments in quality esp when comparing it to season 1, but regardless like I said I could go on, but I am sure my point has been made... and then some, I hope...
Wasted Characters:
-Carley/Doug- I'll admit that their deaths served a purpose unlike many on this list. However, I love both of them so much and would have loved to see Carley and Lee continue to build a relationship. As for Doug, I would have loved to see his skills be put to use(like Eugene). That being said, Lilly's betrayal was a pivotal moment in the series. Instead of killing Carley/Doug, Lilly could have killed Mark(who would have survived SFH. Travis would have gone back to the motel with Ben, therefore replacing some of Mark's role by becoming the meat). Beyond Season 1, I think Carley/Doug could have been one of the very few characters to survive trough the present. A constant reminder that your choices matter, even ones made in the first episode. Carley could have become a mother figure for Clem while Doug would serve the big brother role.
-Kenny(post S2)- Talk about a giant finger to those who decided to stick with Kenny. After him being one of the main characters throughout two entire seasons he's abruptly killed off in a car crash. Not cool. If you went with Kenny, I would have had him captured by The New Frontier. He's alive, but not a central character this season. It would have kept him alive without killing him or forcing him into the spotlight for the third time in a row. He would be freed near the end of TTW and would play a role in FTG. If you stayed in Wellington, Kenny would appear again at a later date(maybe S4). If you kept him alive but decided to go on your own with AJ, Kenny would never be seen again.
-Christa and Omid- I don't like the fact that they killed Omid for shock value. I personally believe it would have been more powerful if Michelle accidentally shot Christa in the stomach, keeping her alive, but killing the baby. Both survive the 16 months and get separated from Clem. They appear as prisoners at Howe's in IHW. Christa befriends Rebecca and helps deliver the baby in place of Kenny. Christa couldn't save her own baby, but she could save AJ. Omid would be killed during the shootout. Christa would also die during the shootout saving AJ from being shot.
I also wish that Clem showing Sarah about guns in ep 2 would have lead to something, but no...
Which is especially egregious considering her final scene is a (near)climactic shootout to Defend the Observation Deck while Rebecca is having her baby.
why not use the Van you were moved to Howe's in, you would have had t eventually leave it, and made a choice who to help,
Oh my goodness, that would've been amazing! Would've been a good way to give Luke, Carlos or even Mike something important to do after Kenny was the one to kill Carver.
Thanks for the agreements, I also wish that Clem showing Sarah about guns in ep 2 would have lead to something, but no... in the escape from… more Howe's I also wished they didn't have to have t use the guts idea, why not use the Van you were moved to Howe's in, you would have had t eventually leave it, and made a choice who to help, and maybe it would have lead to Carlos, and Sarita getting attacked still, season 2, and 3 really for that matter were disappointments in quality esp when comparing it to season 1, but regardless like I said I could go on, but I am sure my point has been made... and then some, I hope...
So here's a somewhat pointlessquirky question: Which Season/Installment had more wasted characters? Feel free to list which ones come to mind in some way.
Depends on what kind of criteria we re dealing with.
If its killed off before they had a chance then its season 2
and if its the Writers forgot to develop 80% of the cast then its ANF.
So here's a somewhat pointlessquirky question: Which Season/Installment had more wasted characters? Feel free to list which ones come to mind in some way.
So let s talk about Russel:
His entire storyline in 400 days was that he left a group that was doing well because their leader was a tyrant and then he eventually ((determinantly)) leaves Nate too.... So why would he stay with carver exactly?
im pretty sure that if it wasnt determinant for him to go to Howe s Then he d probably be a part of the Cabin group because he would want to escape Howe s after Carver starts going crazy.
I think what they were going for there was drawing the line being some random psycho wanderer and a settlement leader who happens to be a psycho.
Steven was a brazen gangbanger who killed people to rob on as a routine.
Nate was a hedonistic trucker who'd do that and possibly worse on a whim, even making light of Russell's trauma before carelessly doing the same.
Carver, while definitely an insufferable Darwinistic egotist, was in charge of leading a place for survivors to call a community and presumably only indulged in that type of behavior outside of the public eye and under the veneer that its "necessary."
Basically, Russell was forced to settle for what superficially seems like the lesser of the evils, if he was even aware of Carver's capabilities at all.
So let s talk about Russel:
His entire storyline in 400 days was that he left a group that was doing well because their leader was a tyrant… more and then he eventually ((determinantly)) leaves Nate too.... So why would he stay with carver exactly?
im pretty sure that if it wasnt determinant for him to go to Howe s Then he d probably be a part of the Cabin group because he would want to escape Howe s after Carver starts going crazy.
Depends on what kind of criteria we re dealing with.
If its killed off before they had a chance then its season 2
and if its the Writers forgot to develop 80% of the cast then its ANF.
Thanks, and yeah there would have been enough to do to keep characters busy, and together, though there could have been more lives lost, but just me, and not what I am looking for suggesting that...
I also wish that Clem showing Sarah about guns in ep 2 would have lead to something, but no...
Which is especially egregious conside… morering her final scene is a (near)climactic shootout to Defend the Observation Deck while Rebecca is having her baby.
why not use the Van you were moved to Howe's in, you would have had t eventually leave it, and made a choice who to help,
Oh my goodness, that would've been amazing! Would've been a good way to give Luke, Carlos or even Mike something important to do after Kenny was the one to kill Carver.
I don't really feel like replying to a huge wall of text, no.
I don't even dislike Kenny, I'm just sick of people sucking his dick.
I'm just going to answer that Jane part, she wanted to prove to Clem Kenny was unstable and she did. You're being dishonest about the scene. Jane drew her knife as a warning then put it back. As soon as she put her knife away, Kenny cowardly charged her, slammed her into the glass wall with incredible force and tried choking her ala Lee in season 1.
Considering Jane is half his size I can hardly blame her for taking her knife out again at that point and slashing him.
You could have at least countered my points in my last post instead of disregarding it dude! sigh
He's a hypocrite.
Explain wh… morey you think he is. What scene? What was hypocritical? Make me understand your view?
Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
Again, details? Explain what particular scene you are referring to? And don’t say “all the time” or something like that because we know that isn’t true. When Kenny “takes something out” on someone, 90% of the time he actually doesn’t mean it and is just his way of getting his frustration out which isn’t right and of course shouldn’t but it is understandable as to why. Like on the train to Lee for is example, he was very upset that his son was dying and couldn’t accept it and yes he couldn’t handle it which is totally understandable unless you know what it feels like to lose a child, but then, everyone is different. He said some mean things on the train… [view original content]
I don't really feel like replying to a huge wall of text, no.
Then how can a conversation/debate even be discussed if you aren’t willing to reply? I admit that i do always tend to type a lot on these forums but that is only because as a fan, i am very passionate about certain things.
I don't even dislike Kenny, I'm just sick of people sucking his dick.
You should be thankful that the majority on these forums actually don’t like him. I feel the same as you except the other way round, i am sick of nothing but negativity for him when i personally don’t feel it is deserved. I don’t mind people disliking him, however, it is the ones that say disturbing shit like hoping he dies painfully or hates on him for literally every single thing, even when he does good. Those people i cannot stand and are just seriously depressing people.
I'm just going to answer that Jane part, she wanted to prove to Clem Kenny was unstable and she did.
It was a point that she didn’t have to even make though! Why you ask? Because Clementine is her own person, she can see how Kenny was and can make up her own mind. What Jane did was forcing a decision onto her to get her to leave/kill her friend. Simply put, Jane wanted Clem to herself, a replacement for the sister she lost. Jane’s “point” put 3 lives in danger:
AJ - if Jane had died and the baby didn’t cry alerting them, Kenny and Clem would have left never realising that he was still alive in the car. Also leaving the baby in the car could have alerted walkers, the window was slightly open giving access. AJ was in danger.
Clementine - she was stuck in the middle and her life was at risk because BOTH of them were fighting, pushing her out of the way when she tried to stop it.
Herself - she knew Kenny would try to kill her and put her own life at risk for a stupid reason when it could have been all avoided.
Jane knew how he’d react and wouldn’t you if you were led to believe she had killed or caused the baby or someone you care about to die? Especially if you didn’t like or trust someone like that? It’s just totally messed up in the head to even consider hiding a baby in a freezing car, faking it’s death to put your own life and Clem’s at risk when nothing would have happened if she hadn’t done it. It’s like i said before, she should have asked Clem what she wanted and then fucked off if Clem wanted to stay with him instead of forcing her.
You're being dishonest about the scene.
Oh i am being very honest Louche. I have explained as much.
Jane drew her knife as a warning then put it back.
She did that knowing that Kenny would charge towards her and deliberately put her knife away in front of Clementine. She wanted her to see her put it away. She was playing the victim. Watch the scene again. It’s a form of manipulation. She knew he would go for her and by putting the knife away makes Clementine think shes innocent but she is by no means innocent in this by any stretch.
Kenny and Jane were both in the wrong for different reasons and i have always said that. But you cannot ignore that she is the reason it all started in the first place. Kenny would not have attacked her if she hadn’t done what she did. If i was Clementine in that situation i would never trust Jane or forgive her after that. One last thing, Jane was trying to kill Kenny as well outside the rest stop. She charged at him when he was backing off. She could have stopped the fight there and then but she wanted the fight as Kenny even says himself later.
Joan was conspicuously absent in the Episode 3 flashback, where David claims she would back him up on the decision to kick Clementine out for stealing from them. This, combined with the reveal that she had been authorizing raids on other settlements, seemed like it was actually an opening for some important backstory for her during that period. Perhaps it was during this time that she developed/honed her diplomacy skills by reaching out and getting the support of many of the settlements she would later resort to stealing from, assuming this wasn't the actual setup.
Additionally, this also meant that she and Clementine had little to no knowledge with each other, creating an odd but interesting disconnect in their respective places in the story.
Yah. We should get another chance to see this in TFS. With AJ back in the picture and Clem's determination to keep what little family she has left, something really big should happen to test how far she would go for family. She's seen so many of them die and knows what it's like to be left with no one. I doubt she would let that happen again while she still stands. A few new family groups would be nice to see, too, with Clem learning more about parenthood from them.
Comments
Sadly.
There were some good characters, though.
I know that they told us some backstories on the AMA, but we should have learned about the characters in-game!!
Oh for sure!! We most certainly should have known within the game, not the AMA. That to me feels like they had to make something up because they lacked imagination when making the game
I kinda feel this way, too. Like they made up the backstories on the spot.
For all we know, they might've. Tripp and to an extent, Joan in particular kinda stand out for that reason.
Honestly, i could write better episodes and characters than Telltale with what we were given in Season 3! I really wanted it to be good but have never felt so let down. Literally every character had no development, no background story except for Javier and David.
Not even in Season 2?
Well, to be completely fair here, I wouldn't exactly say there was no development so much as very little notable development. In which case, only Gabe and determinately Conrad really got any. Oh and ANF!Clementine, I guess.
This...so much.. @DabigRG and I have been discussing the lack of in-game info on the characters was a lamentable waste of potential.
Honestly....ANF was a mistake. Introducing new characters, one of them the main without us knowing them was just a bad idea. It is too bad because the characters did have potential.
Nothing, really. Just it's one of the nicer things I've heard said about "Janiacs", actually.
I never really considered myself one, anyway. It was just that the two other options were Kenny and Luke, and she looked positively golden compared to both of those idiots.
I suppose. I just wish Kate's words and actions there felt more natural, as opposed to just setting the stage for the finale. (if you can call it that)
Amen! I had a sickly feeling the first time i heard we’d be controlling a new protagonist but i didn’t worry too much because they said we’d be playing as Clem as well. WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT THAT WAS!!! They lied as usual. We didn’t get to “play” as Clem at all in Season 3! A few Q and E’s or dialogue choosing i certainly do not call gameplay! I believe at the time they said Javier and Clem’s gameplay would be shared equally. EQUALLY? LOL! Ugh.
You are right though. All the S3 characters could have had so much more potential if the damn writers knew what they were doing and didn’t rewrite scripts every damn second or if they had used some damn imagination to create some back stories to make them remotely interesting.
Season 2 disappointed me as each episode went on due to the slightly shorter episodes, less gameplay and hubs and character interaction. Basically the game was a lot less quality than Season 1 and it showed a lot. But Season 3 made Season 2 look like the best game in the world!
But did they though?? What do we know about Gabe apart from being David’s annoying, bratty teenage son? What do we know about Conrad apart from the fact he had a child once? How did Gabe develop through the game? How did Tripp and Eleanor meet? What do we know about their lives? Their past jobs? Family?
There was just nothing interesting about any character.
Also on a random note, to this day i still think one of the worst things Telltale ever did for Season 3 is how they made that guy who stabbed Javier have absolutely NO facial expressions during the struggle. It’s so so fucking awful that i piss myself laughing at the thought. Anyone else remember that? It’s like the laziest shit ever.
That's saying a fuckin lot.
Really now? Huh....
Er-her-her-her....disagree.
Though icidentally, that just helps bring what a shallow plot device, attempt at fanservice/pandering, and/or ratings trap Jane is to forefront in a straightforward manner. "Remember Clementine, when push comes to shove, you can make it on your own--which is exactly why you should be with me!"
Yeah, well, maybe they shouldn't have benched/kitchened her before she could really do much of anything character-wise and then hastily attempt to make up for it at the eleventh hour. In the mess of an episode that is From the Gallows, no less!
Yeah, pretty accurate.
...Yes?
...I really grew to like Gabe by the end.
> What do we know about Conrad apart from the fact he had a child once?
...Tripp's known him for years? Okay, fair point.
The AMA did give him a fair bit more.
> How did Gabe develop through the game?
He openly acknowledges that he needs to "grow up" by being more active and helpful in the group(though he was already somewhat persnickety and self-aware before hand). This comes with an increased capacity to work cooperatively with the others, be more open about his feelings, tolerate conflicting views, accept the empathy/concern others show to him(especially with Kate), and think things through before acting.
He's also forced to acknowledge that David isn't as perfect as he's always considered him to be and accepts that he has flaws/issues. Even better, he actually attempts to work with this by attempting to appeal to David's better traits on his terms rather than try to force his own scenario like he initially did with Kate. It doesn't really work out, mind you, but.it's still a considerable change of pace.
One night stand, essentially.
They live in Prescott as the guardian and nurse, respectively.
Eleanor was an EMT.
The AMA reveals that Tripp worked as a dockworker. And little else.
Up until sometime before the game was gonna be shipped, Joan.
Again, I'm inclined to disagree with that absolute, but to each their own.
Hell, numerous people have claimed to find David an interesting or even "complex" character and I just had to take their word for it.
Ah, yes, The Specialist, or as I initially called him, "Kelvin." Good times, bad food.
So, two things on that note:
1. I'll take your Specialist and raise you one Fern.
2. The Bossman did a post detailing this in the...Details thread: That was actually a legitimate bug in the last two episode's programming that caused certain character's facial animations to not trigger properly(or not at all). It also affected Lingard, Rafa, Clint, and especially Fern. Telltale later released an update/patch that fixed it.
He loves pudding yet there could have been a story to go with how he developed a liking for it. You know? Something more interesting than just saying it. Why didn’t Telltale write him to say “i remember dad getting me this pudding once because this or that etc, something for us to imagine.
But doesn’t he then completely change in the episodes following? To me it’s like his character wasn’t consistent at all, like he changed personality each episode because to me it felt like Telltale didn’t know what to do with him.
Again that’s fine and all but why not a backstory to do with it? Or was it mentioned? I rarely gave a shit when playing S3 as you know so i may have missed it. I remember him mentioning that though but again why couldn’t Telltale give a bit more for us to go on than that he had knack for it? How did he get good? He could have said “i used to love playing board games (we in the UK say board games instead of table top lol) with Mariana, she hated losing”, you know what i mean? Something humorous or something that can make me look at that scene and enjoy it and that Mariana got a mention. That’s why Season 1 succeeded a lot when it came to talking about events from the past. We were told something like for example, Clem learned to do leaf rubbings taught by her teacher Miss Moore at a botanical garden, that gave us a scenario to imagine that scene and it’s nice.
I guess this is one thing that remains present through the game but i still feel his character development was all over the place. Kind of like a roller coaster, up and down, up and down.
Lol isn’t anyone? Haha but ok if you say so.
As @Fangirl101 said, we should have learned his backstory (and everyone else’s) in game not the AMA! It’s like she said, it’s as if they made it up on the spot and that is bad of them it really is. It proves how badly they fucked up.
I’m not saying i don’t believe you as this could very well be the case but would it be too much trouble for you to share what scenes they are possibly in picture form and quotes? That would help me understand the scenes you refer to. That would be greatly appreciated though time consuming i imagine.
“Ooh details Tripp? Oh nothing else? It’s ok Mr Kenny No2 (or 3 if you count David), it wasn’t your fault that you had no real backstory, that was Telltales lol”
I actually meant before the apocalypse or before Prescott. Apologies for not being clearer. When i talk about character development, i always want to know the past lives of any character because again as i said before, it gives me some imagination to work with. I can picture a scene and it helps me work towards connecting to said character. An example, Omid and Christa lived in an apartment in San Fransisco and they owned a cat. Omid was obviously a reckless driver having his licence suspended twice, Christa’s parents owned a house similar to the one with the dead couple and her parents liked kung fu movies. I know all this isn’t a big thing, but i really like it when i learn these type of things. It helps me relate a lot more to the characters. That’s why i wish Season 3 was written better.
Great but once again, why not explain more like how and why did she want to become an EMT? Why not make an interesting story like she wanted to originally become an astronaut or something out of the blue like that? Or give her parents a mention, did she have a brother or sister? What hobbies does/did she like? This again applies to any character. Something for us to bond over them with or just something that makes them more interesting instead of plain boring!
It shouldn’t have been difficult to add a few fucking lines of dialogue to explain he worked as a dockworker. After all, Telltale did say the episode was SO BIG THAT THEY COULDN’T FIT IT INTO ONE EPISODE!!! Ugh that still pisses me off beyond belief.
More rewrites. Typical. That may have even be interesting if that had stayed in the final cut.
And you are entitled to disagree.
David was just Telltale’s pathetic attempt to make another Kenny, except badly written most of the time.
Ah i did not know this. Thank god for that!
I don’t think i got the bugs from the other characters but i definitely did with the bearded guy. I thought to myself how awful it was the first time and i was surprised that Telltale would have been so lazy (even for them) to not make facial expressions on the character. So thanks for clearing that up. I might replay it to see if it has indeed been fixed.
I know.
She annoyed me the first time. But then again I was dumb teenager, and I was afraid of any females that exhibited masculine traits or characteristics. And boy was I a dumb Kennyfan. But I realized sucking up to him when he always treats you (either Lee or Clem) like shit is just a sign of mental illness, or at least stockholm syndrome on the part of the player.
what is a character arc? We've been over this already. Jane has a fabulously simple but poignant character arc.
About the specialist... man, talk about breaking something by trying to fix what isn't broken. (I just tried to elaborate on this in a thread I made.)
Do you remember anything that bad happening in season 1 or 2? I mean, there was invisible Duck, but that never actually happened to me.
I am really sorry but the last thing i want to do is to bring up a Kenny argument but i have to reply to this:
Mental illness? Stockholm syndrome? So every person who sided with Kenny suffer with those things do they?
First of all Stockholm syndrome is when a hostage becomes affectionate or trustworthy to their captor over time. When did Kenny take Clementine or Lee hostage?
Now to the “mentally ill” comment. I assume this is more about Season 2 Kenny yes? Well you can think Kenny is mentally ill if you like but the fact that he clearly knows what he was doing during the Wellington scene clearly deflates that view quite frankly because a mentally ill person would not do or have the thinking capacity to do what he did. I also think you should perhaps look at it from this perspective, which is this, if you were Kenny, after being alone for many many months, you meet a woman who ultimately saves your life and becomes your new girlfriend as you both eventually find a ski lodge and live a seemingly happy life, only for a group of people to show up that are being chased by a mad man, you’re taken hostage, forced to do hard labour, get your eye bashed in, your new girlfriend later dies, you end up stranded in the middle of nowhere, freezing cold, then the stress of helping a pregnant woman deliver her baby, then the stress and responsibility of helping care for that baby after his mother dies, trying to find the baby food and water as well as somewhere warm and safe. Finally, a fucked up woman (regardless of her intent of what she was trying to do) decided to make you believe the baby you cared so much about is dead, knowing how much it meant to you, knowing how angry you’d get, fucking with your emotions,using sociopathic type behaviour, tell me, how would you feel after everything i just said?? Just picture yourself in Kenny’s shoes for a moment. After all of what i said, that would make most people fricken angry, that i am sure of. Most would have probably committed suicide or broke down and been unable to “cease to function”. And i think Kenny only tried to kill Jane after she slashed him with her knife and charged towards him outside. Before that it was nothing more than an aggressive fist fight.
I know you will probably disagree and disregard what i said which is fine, but i wanted to share that view with you and why i disagree.
I’d also like to add that he doesn’t “always” treat you like shit. He is honest with his feelings when someone like Lee or anyone else doesn’t agree with him and depending on the situation as far as i am concerned, i don’t blame him. There needs to be more people (in this case, game characters) like Kenny who tells you exactly what you don’t want to hear. Sure it comes across as asshole type behaviour but again, to me, it’s honesty. If he kept quiet, smiled or was just a typical Yes Man, then that’s just someone who is two faced or someone who “sucks up” to the opinion of the other person. There are always 2 sides to a story/opinion so what makes Lee’s, Clementines or other characters views more important than Kenny’s? Again i am asking this from “his” point of view. I am not saying he is always right about things because in my opinion, he’s not. But please tell me that? I just don’t think thats fair to say players who suck up to him have a mental illness. I could give you a thousand reasons as to why i feel that is wrong.
He's a hypocrite. Can't handle the heat, but takes it out on everyone else.
He talks a big game, but makes Lee and Clementine do everything.
And he treats you like crap if you don't agree to do everything 100 percent his way and act like his servant.
...
You could have at least countered my points in my last post instead of disregarding it dude! sigh
Explain why you think he is. What scene? What was hypocritical? Make me understand your view?
Again, details? Explain what particular scene you are referring to? And don’t say “all the time” or something like that because we know that isn’t true. When Kenny “takes something out” on someone, 90% of the time he actually doesn’t mean it and is just his way of getting his frustration out which isn’t right and of course shouldn’t but it is understandable as to why. Like on the train to Lee for is example, he was very upset that his son was dying and couldn’t accept it and yes he couldn’t handle it which is totally understandable unless you know what it feels like to lose a child, but then, everyone is different. He said some mean things on the train but you know he didn’t mean it hence why the player has the option to knock sense into him for him to realise the situation. What a lot of people (especially Kenny haters)!fail to realise is that when you talk him down instead of fight on the train you see that the reason Kenny is angry/upset is that the guilt of Shawn Greene’s death has followed him the whole time and shares how deeply he regrets it to which Lee says all the right things to him so that he doesn’t blame himself about it. I really loved that scene.
The reason Lee and Clem “do everything” is because if they didn’t then the player wouldn’t have any gameplay to enjoy at all would they? Also it’s funny how you say Kenny talks a big game when also none of the other non playable characters do jack shit and gets Lee/Clem to do everything too, especially in Season 2. Please explain the scenes you are describing that he “talks a big game” please?
I’ll copy and paste what i said in my first post about this seeing as you bypassed it:
he doesn’t “always” treat you like shit. He is honest with his feelings when someone like Lee or anyone else doesn’t agree with him and depending on the situation as far as i am concerned, i don’t blame him. There needs to be more people (in this case, game characters) like Kenny who tells you exactly what you don’t want to hear. Sure it comes across as asshole type behaviour but again, to me, it’s honesty. If he kept quiet, smiled or was just a typical Yes Man, then that’s just someone who is two faced or someone who “sucks up” to the opinion of the other person. There are always 2 sides to a story/opinion so what makes Lee’s, Clementines or other characters views more important than Kenny’s? Again i am asking this from “his” point of view. I am not saying he is always right about things because in my opinion, he’s not. But please tell me that? I just don’t think thats fair to say players who suck up to him have a mental illness. I could give you a thousand reasons as to why i feel that is wrong.
Kenny never forces you to “be his servant”, sure he disagrees but he never forces you to something you don’t want to do. He’s just very vocal about it as i said above. He’s not afraid of speaking his mind and that is what you and most of the other haters can’t stand. That is a realistic human trait right there Louche.
So any chance you could re-read my original post and reply to each section i made? I would appreciate it.
Oh dan....you never change.
Neither do you
Javier and Clementine's dynamic
(Ignore this, I'm not done)
One of the main sources of discussion since the first minute long teaser was on the nature of the team up between Clementine and the newcomer Javier Garcia. Many assumed that and, as the game went into official promotion mode in anticipation from the game's release, this seemed to indeed be the case.
Some seemed to think that the teaser having Javier hand Clementine another bullet meant that he was withholding her ammo to keep her under his control. While I always though that was absolutely ridiculous conclusion, it did seem like a pragmatic survival strategy and a clever way to show if there was any trust issues.
One of the initial reasons I personally disliked Mariana was because her very existence ultimately served to cheapen the already disappointing dychotomy by inherently making Clementine a Replacement Goldfish, not to mention keeping him from being distinct by immediately establishing a Lee parallel in him early in the game.
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Aw, I remember this. Back when Javi didn't have the backpack. They are in Prescott! Good memories. I was having all of these theories and thoughts...
I recently recalled certain stuff that was said the game and Javier(and Clementine):
It was months ago so I don't remember where I read this.
Wait a minute! Weren't you going to make a post about Tripp as well? You piled up all of that stuff...
I've always felt the Luke and Sarah (Sarah esp, always kept away from the others, kept in the dark by her father) were wasted characters as well as Carver too, I would have liked to things went to a slow build knowing you have to escape, but are kept there for a while longer (maybe a few episodes, with carver attacking with each escape attempt, maybe seeing all this forces Bonnie to act against caver, possibly being killed or escaping with you as you make your escape with her, I could go on, but I think you get my point
Yeah, those two are the biggest ones besides maybe Christa in Season 2.
...He could've been a far better character, yes.
I've seen a number of people say that and yes I definitely agree. That episode was so weak in part because it didn't give much time for anything to really be explored or sink in.
Thanks for the agreements, I also wish that Clem showing Sarah about guns in ep 2 would have lead to something, but no... in the escape from Howe's I also wished they didn't have to have t use the guts idea, why not use the Van you were moved to Howe's in, you would have had t eventually leave it, and made a choice who to help, and maybe it would have lead to Carlos, and Sarita getting attacked still, season 2, and 3 really for that matter were disappointments in quality esp when comparing it to season 1, but regardless like I said I could go on, but I am sure my point has been made... and then some, I hope...
Wasted Characters:
-Carley/Doug- I'll admit that their deaths served a purpose unlike many on this list. However, I love both of them so much and would have loved to see Carley and Lee continue to build a relationship. As for Doug, I would have loved to see his skills be put to use(like Eugene). That being said, Lilly's betrayal was a pivotal moment in the series. Instead of killing Carley/Doug, Lilly could have killed Mark(who would have survived SFH. Travis would have gone back to the motel with Ben, therefore replacing some of Mark's role by becoming the meat). Beyond Season 1, I think Carley/Doug could have been one of the very few characters to survive trough the present. A constant reminder that your choices matter, even ones made in the first episode. Carley could have become a mother figure for Clem while Doug would serve the big brother role.
-Kenny(post S2)- Talk about a giant finger to those who decided to stick with Kenny. After him being one of the main characters throughout two entire seasons he's abruptly killed off in a car crash. Not cool. If you went with Kenny, I would have had him captured by The New Frontier. He's alive, but not a central character this season. It would have kept him alive without killing him or forcing him into the spotlight for the third time in a row. He would be freed near the end of TTW and would play a role in FTG. If you stayed in Wellington, Kenny would appear again at a later date(maybe S4). If you kept him alive but decided to go on your own with AJ, Kenny would never be seen again.
-Christa and Omid- I don't like the fact that they killed Omid for shock value. I personally believe it would have been more powerful if Michelle accidentally shot Christa in the stomach, keeping her alive, but killing the baby. Both survive the 16 months and get separated from Clem. They appear as prisoners at Howe's in IHW. Christa befriends Rebecca and helps deliver the baby in place of Kenny. Christa couldn't save her own baby, but she could save AJ. Omid would be killed during the shootout. Christa would also die during the shootout saving AJ from being shot.
Which is especially egregious considering her final scene is a (near)climactic shootout to Defend the Observation Deck while Rebecca is having her baby.
Oh my goodness, that would've been amazing! Would've been a good way to give Luke, Carlos or even Mike something important to do after Kenny was the one to kill Carver.
So here's a somewhat pointlessquirky question: Which Season/Installment had more wasted characters? Feel free to list which ones come to mind in some way.
Depends on what kind of criteria we re dealing with.
If its killed off before they had a chance then its season 2
and if its the Writers forgot to develop 80% of the cast then its ANF.
So let s talk about Russel:
His entire storyline in 400 days was that he left a group that was doing well because their leader was a tyrant and then he eventually ((determinantly)) leaves Nate too.... So why would he stay with carver exactly?
im pretty sure that if it wasnt determinant for him to go to Howe s Then he d probably be a part of the Cabin group because he would want to escape Howe s after Carver starts going crazy.
I think what they were going for there was drawing the line being some random psycho wanderer and a settlement leader who happens to be a psycho.
Steven was a brazen gangbanger who killed people to rob on as a routine.
Nate was a hedonistic trucker who'd do that and possibly worse on a whim, even making light of Russell's trauma before carelessly doing the same.
Carver, while definitely an insufferable Darwinistic egotist, was in charge of leading a place for survivors to call a community and presumably only indulged in that type of behavior outside of the public eye and under the veneer that its "necessary."
Basically, Russell was forced to settle for what superficially seems like the lesser of the evils, if he was even aware of Carver's capabilities at all.
Either way. Or both. It's really up to you.
Thanks, and yeah there would have been enough to do to keep characters busy, and together, though there could have been more lives lost, but just me, and not what I am looking for suggesting that...
I don't really feel like replying to a huge wall of text, no.
I don't even dislike Kenny, I'm just sick of people sucking his dick.
I'm just going to answer that Jane part, she wanted to prove to Clem Kenny was unstable and she did. You're being dishonest about the scene. Jane drew her knife as a warning then put it back. As soon as she put her knife away, Kenny cowardly charged her, slammed her into the glass wall with incredible force and tried choking her ala Lee in season 1.
Considering Jane is half his size I can hardly blame her for taking her knife out again at that point and slashing him.
Then how can a conversation/debate even be discussed if you aren’t willing to reply? I admit that i do always tend to type a lot on these forums but that is only because as a fan, i am very passionate about certain things.
You should be thankful that the majority on these forums actually don’t like him. I feel the same as you except the other way round, i am sick of nothing but negativity for him when i personally don’t feel it is deserved. I don’t mind people disliking him, however, it is the ones that say disturbing shit like hoping he dies painfully or hates on him for literally every single thing, even when he does good. Those people i cannot stand and are just seriously depressing people.
It was a point that she didn’t have to even make though! Why you ask? Because Clementine is her own person, she can see how Kenny was and can make up her own mind. What Jane did was forcing a decision onto her to get her to leave/kill her friend. Simply put, Jane wanted Clem to herself, a replacement for the sister she lost. Jane’s “point” put 3 lives in danger:
AJ - if Jane had died and the baby didn’t cry alerting them, Kenny and Clem would have left never realising that he was still alive in the car. Also leaving the baby in the car could have alerted walkers, the window was slightly open giving access. AJ was in danger.
Clementine - she was stuck in the middle and her life was at risk because BOTH of them were fighting, pushing her out of the way when she tried to stop it.
Herself - she knew Kenny would try to kill her and put her own life at risk for a stupid reason when it could have been all avoided.
Jane knew how he’d react and wouldn’t you if you were led to believe she had killed or caused the baby or someone you care about to die? Especially if you didn’t like or trust someone like that? It’s just totally messed up in the head to even consider hiding a baby in a freezing car, faking it’s death to put your own life and Clem’s at risk when nothing would have happened if she hadn’t done it. It’s like i said before, she should have asked Clem what she wanted and then fucked off if Clem wanted to stay with him instead of forcing her.
Oh i am being very honest Louche. I have explained as much.
She did that knowing that Kenny would charge towards her and deliberately put her knife away in front of Clementine. She wanted her to see her put it away. She was playing the victim. Watch the scene again. It’s a form of manipulation. She knew he would go for her and by putting the knife away makes Clementine think shes innocent but she is by no means innocent in this by any stretch.
Kenny and Jane were both in the wrong for different reasons and i have always said that. But you cannot ignore that she is the reason it all started in the first place. Kenny would not have attacked her if she hadn’t done what she did. If i was Clementine in that situation i would never trust Jane or forgive her after that. One last thing, Jane was trying to kill Kenny as well outside the rest stop. She charged at him when he was backing off. She could have stopped the fight there and then but she wanted the fight as Kenny even says himself later.
I wish the Family theme in ANF was explored outside of the Garcias.
Clementine and Joan not knowing each other
Joan was conspicuously absent in the Episode 3 flashback, where David claims she would back him up on the decision to kick Clementine out for stealing from them. This, combined with the reveal that she had been authorizing raids on other settlements, seemed like it was actually an opening for some important backstory for her during that period. Perhaps it was during this time that she developed/honed her diplomacy skills by reaching out and getting the support of many of the settlements she would later resort to stealing from, assuming this wasn't the actual setup.
Additionally, this also meant that she and Clementine had little to no knowledge with each other, creating an odd but interesting disconnect in their respective places in the story.
Yah. We should get another chance to see this in TFS. With AJ back in the picture and Clem's determination to keep what little family she has left, something really big should happen to test how far she would go for family. She's seen so many of them die and knows what it's like to be left with no one. I doubt she would let that happen again while she still stands. A few new family groups would be nice to see, too, with Clem learning more about parenthood from them.