Everybody say "Gimme dat Becca!"
For those unfamiliar with/who forgot the 400 Days characters, Becca is a supporting character in Shel's scenario. Shel is a character I tend to forget but her need to make sure her sister grows up right in a world like the Walking Dead's, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists. I mentioned in the 400 Days Longer Topic that I wish her story would have been longer. This would accomplish several things:
Develop her relationship with Stephanie so her "betrayal" means more and show how her dynamic with Becca changed over time.
Develop Roman a little more as well. Perhaps expanding on Dee's theft and ensuing karma while you're at it.
Also, show off the Cancer group a little more so we can get a better idea of who each of them are and why they ended up exchanging one tyrant for another.
Back on topic, Becca is listed on TVTropes as a Shadow Archetype: while Sarah and Jane seem to represent her innocent past and neutral/bitter future, she is Clementine at her brattiest and is quick to judge the mistakes, flaws, and wrong doings of others with overly harsh criticism and punishments. So, while Becca herself is also a character I can't say I particularly cared for, she is probably the 400 Days character who arguably deserved the most emphasis in Season 2. She fits the Evil/Nebulous child/teen archetype(alongside Sarah and maybe Michelle) that would have made her a neat adversary for Clementine to deal with. She(and/or Michelle, but I'll talk about her at a later date) seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attidude. She would most likely be determinately doomed to die at the hands of either Clementine(giving her/player a chance at payback), Troy(I guess because he likes hurting women, children, and women-children? Just throwing out ideas), Carver(To reinforce his villainy by having him kill someone who wholeheartedly supports him for being truly weak-willed), the Walkers(when they overrun Howe's Hardware, with the option of bringing her back later), or even Sarah(to show the breakdown of her character;YMMV on this one, though), but at least the 400 Days DLC would contribute a little more to Season 2's plot. At bare minimum, I feel like that would have been the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content.
Note: In case you're wondering, yes, this is cut and pasted straight from dan's old thread.
I normally wouldn't do something like this here, but since this thread has been out of commission long enough that I forgot my original rules/format, I'll just post my original impressions of my bae in the latest installment start to finish...Ava!
(Amiibo Hunt Successful!!!)
Ava seemed poised to finally give Clementine a proper "evil" counterpart, given her similar height, , having taken a quick liking to AJ, and her introduction by David(to whom she earned the honorary rank of second in command) somewhat mirroring an explanation Lee can give about Clementine. And a comment about a dropped flashback involving a "Carver-like character" from a December interview Melissa Hutchinson could've also been secretly referring to her, given she is introduced as a chummy member of the New Frontier back when they were worthy of being deemed good people by Edgy!Clem and seemed legitimately interested in both her and AJ.
She also could've turned out to be Conrad's estranged daughter, given he alludes to being a parent himself while suggesting Javier gives Gabe some space, the easy to make impression she was at least in her late teens to early 20s, and the story's themes about family, strained relationships, and justice/revenge could tie him in with her perfectly as a bonus backstory element. The fact that Thicker than Water retroactively confirmed that she had history in Prescott just added fuel to the fire for that theory.
Combining these two points, she'd be a genuinely compassionate babe despite her creepy(read:obviously evil) exterior, but something of a fatalist obsessed with having a baby to call her own in the apocalypse, both to satisfy a genuine desire to raise one due to her affinity for children and out of a Freudian chip on her shoulder caused by whatever fallout she had with Conrad. To this end, she'd end up capitalizing on whatever Clementine did to piss David off to take AJ for herself, reasoning that while she really did like Clementine and feels bad about having to separate the two, everything happens for a reason. All of this would thereby also make her a foil to Carver, Jane, and David himself.
One facet of how Gabe(and arguably Luke and Eleanor as well) feels like a wasted character is the distinction regarding his stance on life. Specifically, his ability to actually kill someone.
(Strike me down with all of your hatred...)
Something that's somewhat bothered me in Season Two as well is the fact that these games seemingly put so much stock into being able to shoot guns, being willing to kill people who oppose you, and generally being a deadly badass--everyone's obsessed with death! Survival is more than just killing before you're killed, you know: it's also about being smart, being pragmatic, and being careful. Guns are tool for protection, not for wantonly taking lives just because you have the power to do so.
One of the main traits of Gabe's characterization is his idealization of David, with his behavior and personal beliefs very much being rooted in how he believes his dad The Soldier would act. In Ties that Bind Part 2 , however, when put into a situation where he feels his uncle/ally Javier/Clementine's life is being threatened by the aggressive with vengeance Conrad, Gabe is quick to advocate shooting him if he doesn't back off but ultimately doesn't go as far as actually doing the deed, at worst only firing a warning shot to get his point across. And indeed in Thicker than Water, he for better or worse later gets extremely angry at [determinately] Javier and David himself for having actually killed Conrad and Clint, respectively. The obvious conclusion is that while his inherited preference for action/aggression means he wants to be able to kill if it's necessary, his morals ultimately prevent him from feeling comfortable with actually doing so, even if that's only limited to someone who was supposed to be an ally.
I feel like a key moment of positive Character Development with him would be a moment where he confronts and Badger, The Specialist, or better yet a nicer character who's attacked him or someone he cares about and has the at his undeniable mercy with every intention of killing them, determinately realizes how much he's behaving like Badger or initially Conrad and decides not to become a needless murderer, with later story events showing that this was indeed the right choice to make for once. Another situation that I was expecting that might clash with my point a bit here is one where he specifically is forced to shoot/kill someone to protect someone he cares about or maybe even being forced to shoot the rampant David when he uncontrollably attacks Javier after several consecutive incidents of aggravated assault. Then Javier, Ava, Clementine, or even David himself could talk to him about having taken a life and reassuring him that while discretion is a virtue he should try to hold onto, there will also be other situations where he needs to be ready to pull the trigger and move on if it's truly the only way.
Wasted plot: Javier trying to gather allies to overthrow Joan (depending on your choices if you spared Max or maybe convincing Lingard and Clint to aid you) and expose her crimes to everyone in Richmond, try to remove her out of power, take Richmond without violence and get justice once and for all.
I thought that would be the premise of episode 4, i wish that would've been an option. Even when you try to be a good guy the outcome its still the same.
I'm sure that was the original plan, judging by the episode selection screenshots for 4 & 5, but of course It didn't make the cut because it "didn't tell a authentic Walking Dead story".
Wasted plot: Javier trying to gather allies to overthrow Joan (depending on your choices if you spared Max or maybe convincing Lingard and C… morelint to aid you) and expose her crimes to everyone in Richmond, try to remove her out of power, take Richmond without violence and get justice once and for all.
I thought that would be the premise of episode 4, i wish that would've been an option. Even when you try to be a good guy the outcome its still the same.
I'm sure that was the original plan, judging by the episode selection screenshots for 4 & 5, but of course It didn't make the cut because it "didn't tell a authentic Walking Dead story".
Wasted plot: Javier trying to gather allies to overthrow Joan (depending on your choices if you spared Max or maybe convincing Lingard and C… morelint to aid you) and expose her crimes to everyone in Richmond, try to remove her out of power, take Richmond without violence and get justice once and for all.
I thought that would be the premise of episode 4, i wish that would've been an option. Even when you try to be a good guy the outcome its still the same.
WASTED CHARACTERS:
Eleanor - She was my favourite since the beginning and wanted to see where her character goes. To expand her screentim… moree and give her more development I would make leaving with her at night in Episode 1 canon to the story/non-determinant. I also think that it would be more exciting if we arrived at the junkyard at night. We wouldn't know if The New Frontier are there and it will be kinda hard to retrieve the rest of the Garcias. We'll also have the chance to ask her about her past. Or like you suggested in your Character Combination thread, have Tripp escort Kate to Richmond to get help while Eleanor stays with us.
In general, we are looking at a genderbend Carley/Doug situation. Both Eleanor and Doug are very useful, but not shown enough. I would have loved it if Episode 5 was about her, but you know.
Mariana - She didn't need to die. I probably would have used Hector(Sorry, uncle Hector!) instead of her to be the v… [view original content]
Joan and Clint being turned into determinants and dissapearing especially because of the leaks showing that telltale already had scenarios planned for them and Eleanor even played a role in then making her character not as useless as it is in the real from the gallows.
This didn't happen in my game, soo, your problem. I liked the purpose of the scene, not the scene itself, mind you.
By the best character in the episode, I meant his role.
Joan and Clint being turned into determinants and dissapearing especially because of the leaks showing that telltale already had scenarios p… morelanned for them and Eleanor even played a role in then making her character not as useless as it is in the real from the gallows.
They ran off as Kenny was on his way out, remember. Arvo left first, Mike either points out that they can't stay or is told to just leave, and Bonnie is scared off by Kenny as he comes out.
Yah. I'm just tired of stuff like this disappearing into the fog. I still wanna know what happened to Bonnie, Arvo, and Mike after Kenny was able to get back the truck and took off on them.
Just gonna gather and leave this info here for a future post, here or elsewhere.
I apologize for any misunderstandings or dashed hopes you might have in advance. Please ignore!
As edgy said, Tripp is a very bland character who feels very undefined/inconsistent, we know almost nothing about, doesn't really contribute much(or almost anything) to the group dynamic, has a pretty dull design & color scheme, and has very little purpose/effect in the plot for the amount of screentime and prominence he gets.
The fact that the latter point is partially based around him becoming yet another [pretty shallow] clone of Kenny doesn't help.
Tripp was just a cheap/boring/forced version of Abraham. He was the worst character in ANF.
That's because there was a lot of characterization, screentime, development, and a relationship with Kenny in Season 1, to the point he's arguably the tritagonist. Meanwhile, Tripp barely has any characterization, a real direction, or even plot device purpose in ANF despite pretty obviously being meant to be seen as Javier's best friend.
Because he's really friggin bland and pointless, even by MY overly generous standards--he's arguably worse than Wyatt in that regard. Not to mention clearly being a obvious and quarter-assed Kenny 5.0.
Now granted, Above the Law definitely made an effort to downplay those issues, but he still doesn't have much to him as a character, at least as far as I can tell.
Nor gonna lie: Tripp was fuckin' done before the game even came out in my book.
Honestly, if it wasn't that brilliant twist, 'Tripp or Ava' would've been like 'Sarah or Jane' except if the choice actually mattered, Jane was more sympathetic(in both senses of the word), and Sarah had fuck all in characterization and spent an increasing amount of her screentime trying to get into Carlos's pants.
Except not [as?] funny or interesting.
I'd much rather they do that with a character that's not so close to being the same thing yet also missing the point of the original(again, like Tripp).
I at least contend that the idea of his and Ava's deaths was fairly clever in concept.
Still probably the worst character imo, though.
She was a medic who offered to sneak Javier and Clementine away in the night to help his family, before being put in charge of tending to Kate's wound and escorting her to Richmond. That's at least two more than the role Tripp has. Yeah,Tripp makes Javier the boss, after losing the town he was the (insertjobdescriptionhere) of to Badger. Hell, was that even his decision to make?
I thought he was just supposed to be the tough but reasonable authority type.
(overly trusting and forgiving)that's a case where I could've used some exposition to help get that across better, though that's a major issue with Tripp in general.
Also, one issue and/or fixaround that many have is the fact that Tripp is assumed to be the leader of Prescott when that was technically never confirmed or denied as far as I recall.
Well he was originally characterized as being serious about his job, reasonable in dealing with problems, and being more experienced/wise than the comparatively naive Eleanor. It was Part 2 where his character started to have issues and it didn't seem to be an intentional shift either.
he was very quick to simply flee Prescott once Eleanor got the Garcia's to an escape vehicle, how Eleanor and especially Conrad seemed far more torn about what happened then he does, is suddenly a lot more emotional and illogical at times(which is weird considering Conrad was supposed to be the jumpy one), and, while ultimately an example of how vague his role is, seemingly accepts Javier as the leader despite being the cause of their problems and arguably being more qualified for the role himself.
(Sounds like a guy that didn't want to step up to begin with, so that when someone else did he just went with it.)And that would've been cool--if they firmly established him as so.
Really, he was something of a plot device in Part 1, but unlike Mariana and Badger, was an acceptable and even necessary one. After all, you wanna introduce a friendly (and doomed) town without having to establish a leader or a security force? Here's Tripp: he takes care of things. This came with giving him certain traits and characteristics expected of the role, so you'll have to forgive me for being critical of a character for not acting consistently with the part he played at first when you give me nothing else to work with beyond his unspecified job description and the incidental fun fact that he and Eleanor used to be a thing.
Point blank period, if you're going to keep his character around long after his purpose is no longer relevant, actually expand on and do something interesting with him.
(Not everything has to be spelled out about a character.) but the fact that we know so little about Tripp is an example of why I'm so baffled about him.
the fact that Eleanor is the one who explained their exact relationship is probably another part of it.
, I think it would've went over better if they clarified that he wasn't the leader in part because I actually prefer that, but regardless, if my vibes from a character's first impressions doesn't line up with everything else about them, that's probably an issue with their portrayal just as much as my own interpretation. Maybe another playthrough of Ties that Bind is in order now that the Installment is over.
(In Episode 1 after Eleanor tells you about the rear gate and that you could leave tonight, she tells you something like "As for Tripp, you have to ask for forgiveness rather than permission." if you say "Sounds like trouble.")That...doesn't really make a lot of sense, but maybe I need to hear it for myself. Like, I sorta get a similar basic idea from that, but if anything, it sounds more like Tripp is a stubborn stickler for order, which again makes me think of him as a gruff but reasonable authority figure.
It also makes me think Eleanor did some freaky stuff to him, but let's not go there.
(I don't blame Eleanor for not wanting to be with Tripp. Not that I hate Tripp, but Eleanor's relationship with Tripp reminds me of Javi's relationship with Kate)
I think that's part of the only reason it's there. Unfortunately, it's pretty pointless at this point and Tripp didn't need to exist anymore because of that.
the height difference? That was the one saving grace of their dual determinant status.
If it wasn't for the twist on Joan's part, the Tripp or Ava choice could've been pretty damn one-sided.
(he has no real character so I have no reason to want him to live in the story. Utterly worthless character.Trip pre episode 4 wasnt the best but he at least had something of a character if a bit simplistic. Post episode 4 Tripp lost any character he had in the same scene as Gabe.)maybe that's the problem: it's not he has no character so much as it's ridiculously simple. I only really brought him up because some people alternate between who's the blandest of the two. She at least had something in the way of a purpose and reasoning for her actions, as far as I can tell.
To be fair, most of us thought that was stupid/lazy to begin with.
never before has he outright irritated me while I was going through an episode.
Found this in a certain older thread. Felt like it'd be a good suggestion for most.
(Also, keep the pointless flaming and petty shit to a fuckin minimum. Please and thank you!)
(Comment about Gabe pulling a gun and Clementine having to stop him)
Honestly, I think it'd be better if she talked the monster to death instead. Be a nice change of pace.
(Reply)
Her calling him out and ordering him to back down in a blunt fashion. She knows he'll listen to her anyway, but she'll be finally getting serious about addressing his issues after so long of keeping quiet and letting Javier handle him. It'd be character development for both since Gabe was further established to not have interacted with anyone besides Mariana in a positive manner much over the years and showed signs of not wanting to listen to them even back then, while Clementine would be applying her anger or "strength" or whatever you wanna call it in a way that's constructive rather than destructive again.
Plus, I honestly doubt she realizes he likes her like that anyway and I'd rather keep it that way for the sake of not making it the focus.(PresentMe: )
Nor gonna lie: Tripp was fuckin' done before the game even came out in my book.
...What?
he was very quick to simply flee Prescott once Eleanor got the Garcia's to an escape vehicle
This really bothered me, too. He's been the protector of this town for years. I won't be surprised if they scrapped a "helping Eleanor get people to safety" subquest. I would have loved that... The 'tear gas' scene should have been drawn out. I can see Eleanor wanting to help the citizens get out of Prescott.
Point blank period, if you're going to keep his character around long after his purpose is no longer relevant, actually expand on and do something interesting with him.
THIS. Honestly, I think scrapping the "him knowing Badger" plot was a mistake. It would have given him depth, imo. It also creates an interesting background for him. Him having a rivalry(sorta) with Badger would have been nice. Turning out to be a former member of TNF would have been a good twist, having pissed of the organization and escaping.
To sum it up, I think the theme "Rivalry" would have added to the story. I used to imagine Eleanor and Dr Lingard as rivals, too.
That...doesn't really make a lot of sense, but maybe I need to hear it for myself.
She meant to say that he is forgiving/not the type to be mad at you for long.
It also makes me think Eleanor did some freaky stuff to him, but let's not go there.
For pudding's sake, Dabby! We talked about this! It's your dirty mind that makes you think that.
I am willing to believe Tripp fell for her when they met. Though we have no knowledge about how and when they met. He probably forced her into a relationship, but she wasn't ready. (Just like when he was like "We should be a thing", which clearly annoyed you.) I need answers!
Please, Telltale, make these The Player's Space episodes for ANF!
Just gonna gather and leave this info here for a future post, here or elsewhere.
I apologize for any misunderstandings or dashed hopes yo… moreu might have in advance. Please ignore!
As edgy said, Tripp is a very bland character who feels very undefined/inconsistent, we know almost nothing about, doesn't really contribute much(or almost anything) to the group dynamic, has a pretty dull design & color scheme, and has very little purpose/effect in the plot for the amount of screentime and prominence he gets.
The fact that the latter point is partially based around him becoming yet another [pretty shallow] clone of Kenny doesn't help.
Tripp was just a cheap/boring/forced version of Abraham. He was the worst character in ANF.
That's because there was a lot of characterization, screentime, development, and a relationship with Kenny in Season 1, to the point he's arguably the tritagonist. Meanwhile, Tripp barely has any char… [view original content]
This wasn't really a contributing post in and of itself. I just wanted to do some general posts about Tripp and sometimes I go back to older threads to gather miscellaneous older thoughts/material to consider/cannibalize when righting it/them. Sorry for the confusion!
But, since you decided to reply, I'll look over your concerns:
...What?
That screentime of Ava is pretty much the primary thing that re-energized my interest in "Season 3" after it gradually faded over time. Thus, my interest in her from before the game came out and my legitimate love of her when it finally did meant I was pretty much guaranteed to [intend to] choose her over him.
This really bothered me, too. He's been the protector of this town for years. I won't be surprised if they scrapped a "helping Eleanor get people to safety" subquest. I would have loved that... The 'tear gas' scene should have been drawn out. I can see Eleanor wanting to help the citizens get out of Prescott.
Yeah, pretty much. At the very least, they could've had her bring it up and have Clementine state that they have no time.
THIS. Honestly, I think scrapping the "him knowing Badger" plot was a mistake. It would have given him depth, imo. It also creates an interesting background for him. Him having a rivalry(sorta) with Badger would have been nice. Turning out to be a former member of TNF would have been a good twist, having pissed of the organization and escaping.
Yeah, they really should've kept (more of) the material regarding the strict rules of Prescott.
Funny idea to give him a bit of a rivalry with Badger, but it makes sense with what you suggest and it also gives him some more contrast with Conrad. Though it reminds me of that matchup list I made before Above the Law came out, where I left him off outside of potentially assisting Eleanor. Speaking of which...
To sum it up, I think the theme "Rivalry" would have added to the story. I used to imagine Eleanor and Dr Lingard as rivals, too.
Guilty. Then the game actually came out and "Dimitri" turned out to be a pretty chill dude, all things considered.
Not too sure about rivalry itself being a full out theme, though. Especially given how Season 2 turned out.
She meant to say that he is forgiving/not the type to be mad at you for long.
Admittedly, I didn't fulling read and/or think about some of these, so that one was just along for the ride.
For pudding's sake, Dabby! We talked about this! It's your dirty mind that makes you think that.
I am willing to believe Tripp fell for her when they met. Though we have no knowledge about how and when they met.
Yet another part of the problems.
He probably forced her into a relationship, but she wasn't ready. (Just like when he was like "We should be a thing", which clearly annoyed you.)
If that was the case, then it's triply dumb!
I need answers!
Please, Telltale, make these The Player's Space episodes for ANF!
Nor gonna lie: Tripp was fuckin' done before the game even came out in my book.
...What?
he was very quick to simply flee Pres… morecott once Eleanor got the Garcia's to an escape vehicle
This really bothered me, too. He's been the protector of this town for years. I won't be surprised if they scrapped a "helping Eleanor get people to safety" subquest. I would have loved that... The 'tear gas' scene should have been drawn out. I can see Eleanor wanting to help the citizens get out of Prescott.
Point blank period, if you're going to keep his character around long after his purpose is no longer relevant, actually expand on and do something interesting with him.
THIS. Honestly, I think scrapping the "him knowing Badger" plot was a mistake. It would have given him depth, imo. It also creates an interesting background for him. Him having a rivalry(sorta) with Badger would have been nice. Turning out to be a former mem… [view original content]
Say, remember how in pro-David/Gabe playthroughs or at least if you decide determinately to go to David's house, Javier can tell Gabe that Clementine hates his dad and that he should talk to her about that? Would've been nice to see that pay off for those who shot Conrad, assuming it didn't[whatever the fuck I was supposed to say here].
Note: Okay, so we're gonna do some weird ass crossover with my composite character thread by the end here, so I'm gonna have to ask you to pay attention while I break things down.
Let's talk about a ghost this time. A ghost I shall call...
Anita Garcia!
So first off, let's go into where her name comes from: Anita Garcia was the sister of Javier and David, the wife of Hector, and most notably, the mom of Marianna. I believe that was meant to be her in the family photo and while she was gonna be dead during ANF regardless, any actual mention in the story proper was presumably dummied out fairly late in development before/around the time the dialogue was changed to have Marianna be David's daughter instead.
Now I want to clarify that the reason I bring her up is because she is merely relevant to my point, ergo, this is actually not only about her but about another character--Gabe's mom! Or rather, because of the change I noted above, Gabe and Marianna's mom, whom, due to being unnamed and unseen, I shall dub Grace Garcia. And I think that is a somewhat fitting honorific because despite her relevance to the family dynamic, Grace is only really mentioned as a memory by the latter in the junkyard hub sequence(which I somehow missed on my first playthrough, btw), namely that she used to tell her a story that she always thought was kinda dumb but she appreciates it nonetheless. Which is a shame because given that family is a huge theme in ANF, you'd think we'd learn more about David's wife considering it was initially assumed that Gabe apparently resented Kate in part for not being, acting like, and/or even trying to replace her and even Mariana subtlely admits to secretly missing her, but nope. Gotta focus on her husbando. Then again, the same can somewhat be said for Mariana herself, but one thing at a time here.
So ultimately, that leaves us with technically TWO family members that had no relevance to the story proper, one of which ended up being unnamed and nominally playing the small but important role of both in the backstory. So, because Grace was reworked into Kate before the game was ready to be officially promoted and Gabe’s mom also goes unnamed and unmentioned(for some reason), I elect we follow through with the final product’s example and make all three the same character.
This wasn't really a contributing post in and of itself. I just wanted to do some general posts about Tripp and sometimes I go back to older threads to gather miscellaneous older thoughts/material to consider/cannibalize when righting it/them. Sorry for the confusion!
Ah, that makes sense, it's okay!
But, since you decided to reply, I'll look over your concerns:
Aww, didn't you miss having convos with me?
That screentime of Ava is pretty much the primary thing that re-energized my interest in "Season 3" after it gradually faded over time. Thus, my interest in her from before the game came out and my legitimate love of her when it finally did meant I was pretty much guaranteed to [intend to] choose her over him.
I seriously think your love for her is adorable.
I really love and miss her myself. I always imagined her disappearing in the end. Not that... becoming determinant and dying.
Yeah, pretty much. At the very least, they could've had her bring it up and have Clementine state that they have no time.
Can't it be someone else? I know Clementine will be rude to her. But we needed interactions between these two...
Though it reminds me of that matchup list I made before Above the Law came out, where I left him off outside of potentially assisting Eleanor.
Who? Conrad? I do remember Clemenem suggesting having Conrad be Eleanor's assistant instead of owning a bar. This is actually pretty neat!
Speaking of which...
Go on! I am curious.
Guilty. Then the game actually came out and "Dimitri" turned out to be a pretty chill dude, all things considered.
I did so after Episode 3 and 4 came out. I ain't guilty.
Glad he didn't end up a villain. I can't imagine him evil!
Not too sure about rivalry itself being a full out theme, though. Especially given how Season 2 turned out.
I didn't mean it as being a main theme. As a secondary/minor one only.
If that was the case, then it's triply dumb!
I see what you did there~
Agreed, I suppose.
If you prefer streams, that's okay, you know. I would love ANF streams. I'll have to dedicate one or two days to watch the S1 and S2 ones. I am sure there's interesting stuff there.
This wasn't really a contributing post in and of itself. I just wanted to do some general posts about Tripp and sometimes I go back to older… more threads to gather miscellaneous older thoughts/material to consider/cannibalize when righting it/them. Sorry for the confusion!
But, since you decided to reply, I'll look over your concerns:
...What?
That screentime of Ava is pretty much the primary thing that re-energized my interest in "Season 3" after it gradually faded over time. Thus, my interest in her from before the game came out and my legitimate love of her when it finally did meant I was pretty much guaranteed to [intend to] choose her over him.
This really bothered me, too. He's been the protector of this town for years. I won't be surprised if they scrapped a "helping Eleanor get people to safety" subquest. I would have loved that... The 'tear gas' scene should have been drawn out. I can see Eleanor wanting to help the… [view original content]
I really love and miss her myself. I always imagined her disappearing in the end. Not that... becoming determinant and dying.
Yeah, me too.
Can't it be someone else? I know Clementine will be rude to her. But we needed interactions between these two...
I was actually trying to think of who'd work best there and Clementine applied a little more than Tripp for exactly those reasons.
Who? Conrad? I do remember Clemenem suggesting having Conrad be Eleanor's assistant instead of owning a bar. This is actually pretty neat!
No, Tripp. He was the only character without any clear motivation or role in the group to make him feel deserving of an archenemy/rival of his own. Especially once you take the prediction that Max would pull a Heel-Face Turn in account.
And while Conrad helping Eleanor out at one point is indeed something I considered, it was for if he's still around during From the Gallows rather than his actual occupation.
Go on! I am curious.
I was just the Eleanor vs. Lingard thing immediately below.
I did so after Episode 3 and 4 came out. I ain't guilty.
...Wha...?
Glad he didn't end up a villain. I can't imagine him evil!
Same here.
I see what you did there~
If you prefer streams, that's okay, you know. I would love ANF streams. I'll have to dedicate one or two days to watch the S1 and S2 ones. I am sure there's interesting stuff there.
True, but I meant that I haven't watched Player's Opinion before so I have no room to have much of an opinion.
This wasn't really a contributing post in and of itself. I just wanted to do some general posts about Tripp and sometimes I go back to older… more threads to gather miscellaneous older thoughts/material to consider/cannibalize when righting it/them. Sorry for the confusion!
Ah, that makes sense, it's okay!
But, since you decided to reply, I'll look over your concerns:
Aww, didn't you miss having convos with me?
That screentime of Ava is pretty much the primary thing that re-energized my interest in "Season 3" after it gradually faded over time. Thus, my interest in her from before the game came out and my legitimate love of her when it finally did meant I was pretty much guaranteed to [intend to] choose her over him.
I seriously think your love for her is adorable.
I really love and miss her myself. I always imagined her disappearing in the end. Not that... becoming determinant and dying.
Yeah, pre… [view original content]
I understood what you were trying to say.
But yes, I agree, it would have been nice to pay off. Seriously, he should have told them only if we treated him bad.
For example, if you leave with Kate in Above The Law, Gabe will be either happy or angry to see you depending on how you treat him. He is the perfect example of how character relationships should work. The "Conrad's murder reveal" scene was poorly done.
Say, remember how in pro-David/Gabe playthroughs or at least if you decide determinately to go to David's house, Javier can tell Gabe that C… morelementine hates his dad and that he should talk to her about that? Would've been nice to see that pay off for those who shot Conrad, assuming it didn't[whatever the fuck I was supposed to say here].
Oh, good! Cause I copied that from an older post of mine and I couldn't figure out what the fuck that was supposed to mean.
Honestly, I'm not completely sure why I specified the Shoot Conrad scenarios back then since it has little to nothing to do with that.
But yes, I agree, it would have been nice to pay off. Seriously, he should have told them only if we treated him bad.
For example, if you leave with Kate in Above The Law, Gabe will be either happy or angry to see you depending on how you treat him. He is the perfect example of how character relationships should work. The "Conrad's murder reveal" scene was poorly done.
Damn straight! They missed a huge opportunity with him in general that I should make a post about assuming I somehow haven't already.
I understood what you were trying to say.
But yes, I agree, it would have been nice to pay off. Seriously, he should have told them only i… moref we treated him bad.
For example, if you leave with Kate in Above The Law, Gabe will be either happy or angry to see you depending on how you treat him. He is the perfect example of how character relationships should work. The "Conrad's murder reveal" scene was poorly done.
Honestly, I'm not completely sure why I specified the Shoot Conrad scenarios back then since it has little to nothing to do with that.
Mistakes like that happen.
But our choices regarding Gabe should have influenced his decision whether to tell Tripp about it, so it's good that you brought it up.
Damn straight! They missed a huge opportunity with him in general that I should make a post about assuming I somehow haven't already.
You definitely should! I saw the one above, about his ability to kill, and you did a great job!
I understood what you were trying to say.
Oh, good! Cause I copied that from an older post of mine and I couldn't figure out what t… morehe fuck that was supposed to mean.
Honestly, I'm not completely sure why I specified the Shoot Conrad scenarios back then since it has little to nothing to do with that.
But yes, I agree, it would have been nice to pay off. Seriously, he should have told them only if we treated him bad.
For example, if you leave with Kate in Above The Law, Gabe will be either happy or angry to see you depending on how you treat him. He is the perfect example of how character relationships should work. The "Conrad's murder reveal" scene was poorly done.
Damn straight! They missed a huge opportunity with him in general that I should make a post about assuming I somehow haven't already.
Honestly, I'm not completely sure why I specified the Shoot Conrad scenarios back then since it has little to nothing to do with that.
… more
Mistakes like that happen.
But our choices regarding Gabe should have influenced his decision whether to tell Tripp about it, so it's good that you brought it up.
Damn straight! They missed a huge opportunity with him in general that I should make a post about assuming I somehow haven't already.
You definitely should! I saw the one above, about his ability to kill, and you did a great job!
I was actually trying to think of who'd work best there and Clementine applied a little more than Tripp for exactly those reasons.
I think you're right. If it was Tripp, players would get suspicious of him. I've seen comments on Youtube saying how Tripp didn't even bother to get his people to safety. Well, good to see that people noticed this! I remember one Youtuber pointing it out on that during his playthrough.
No, Tripp. He was the only character without any clear motivation or role in the group to make him feel deserving of an archenemy/rival of his own.
Agreed about that. But the him 'knowing Badger' plot would have made sense. Taking into account what Ms. Alyssa said about him being the most effective defender of Prescott and the deleted audio where he recognizes Badger by name, would lead to the assumption that Tripp was able to fight him off a lot of times.
Especially once you take the prediction that Max would pull a Heel-Face Turn in account.
I am glad he did. I always imagined him helping us out, joining our group, becoming Javi's right hand man/close friend, and... s-surviving the the game. I just need a minute.
I genuinely thought that he would be one of the few characters to survive in the end. I still can't believe they gave us an option to kill him...
And while Conrad helping Eleanor out at one point is indeed something I considered, it was for if he's still around during From the Gallows rather than his actual occupation.
I actually thought he was helping her off-screen.
...Wha...?
I meant to say that I imagined Eleanor and Lingard as rivals after Episode 3 and 4 came out. Sorry if I confused you!
True, but I meant that I haven't watched Player's Space before so I have no room to have much of an opinion.
I haven't, either. They started doing them for Minecraft, Guardians of The Galaxy and Batman. They talk about ideas that didn't make it to the final game and why they didn't, I think.
Aww, didn't you miss having convos with me?
Maybe...
seriously think your love for her is adorable.
I really love and m… moreiss her myself. I always imagined her disappearing in the end. Not that... becoming determinant and dying.
Yeah, me too.
Can't it be someone else? I know Clementine will be rude to her. But we needed interactions between these two...
I was actually trying to think of who'd work best there and Clementine applied a little more than Tripp for exactly those reasons.
Who? Conrad? I do remember Clemenem suggesting having Conrad be Eleanor's assistant instead of owning a bar. This is actually pretty neat!
No, Tripp. He was the only character without any clear motivation or role in the group to make him feel deserving of an archenemy/rival of his own. Especially once you take the prediction that Max would pull a Heel-Face Turn in account.
And while Conrad helping Eleanor … [view original content]
I think you're right. If it was Tripp, players would get suspicious of him. I've seen comments on Youtube saying how Tripp didn't even bother to get his people to safety. Well, good to see that people noticed this! I remember one Youtuber pointing it out on that during his playthrough.
Exactly.
Agreed about that. But the him 'knowing Badger' plot would have made sense. Taking into account what Ms. Alyssa said about him being the most effective defender of Prescott and the deleted audio where he recognizes Badger by name, would lead to the assumption that Tripp was able to fight him off a lot of times.
Hmm...I never really put much thought into that. I just assumed that Prescott was on relatively neutral terms with the New Frontier and Badger coming there with hostile intent was unusual.
Still, Badger is already a very personal enemy for Conrad and Javier and I'd like to think a correctly written Tripp, while not necessarily indifferent about him, would be able to conduct himself in a more composed/professional manner compared to them. The way he acts in at least relevant scenes in the game proper definitely fits with that idea.
I am glad he did. I always imagined him helping us out, joining our group, becoming Javi's right hand man/close friend, and... s-surviving the the game.
I genuinely thought that he would be one of the few characters to survive in the end. I still can't believe they gave us an option to kill him...
Yeah, it does suck that he didn't officially make the cut.
Maybe...
I was actually trying to think of who'd work best there and Clementine applied a little more than Tripp for exactly … morethose reasons.
I think you're right. If it was Tripp, players would get suspicious of him. I've seen comments on Youtube saying how Tripp didn't even bother to get his people to safety. Well, good to see that people noticed this! I remember one Youtuber pointing it out on that during his playthrough.
No, Tripp. He was the only character without any clear motivation or role in the group to make him feel deserving of an archenemy/rival of his own.
Agreed about that. But the him 'knowing Badger' plot would have made sense. Taking into account what Ms. Alyssa said about him being the most effective defender of Prescott and the deleted audio where he recognizes Badger by name, would lead to the assumption that Tripp was able to fight him off a lot of times.
Especially once you take … [view original content]
Hmm...I never really put much thought into that. I just assumed that Prescott was on relatively neutral terms with the New Frontier and Badger coming there with hostile intent was unusual.
I personally believe he was going to turn out to be a former member of TNF.
I need my answers. There were a lot of rewrites, I love learning about scrapped stuff.
Yeah, it does suck that he didn't officially make the cut.
For Episode 5? Yes, it does.
Hopefully we revisit him, see what's going on with him.
(I need to watch that movie at some point.)
I think you're right. If it was Tripp, players would get suspicious of him. I've seen comm… moreents on Youtube saying how Tripp didn't even bother to get his people to safety. Well, good to see that people noticed this! I remember one Youtuber pointing it out on that during his playthrough.
Exactly.
Agreed about that. But the him 'knowing Badger' plot would have made sense. Taking into account what Ms. Alyssa said about him being the most effective defender of Prescott and the deleted audio where he recognizes Badger by name, would lead to the assumption that Tripp was able to fight him off a lot of times.
Hmm...I never really put much thought into that. I just assumed that Prescott was on relatively neutral terms with the New Frontier and Badger coming there with hostile intent was unusual.
Still, Badger is already a very personal enemy for Conrad and Javier and I'd like t… [view original content]
Hmm...I never really put much thought into that. I just assumed that Prescott was on relatively neutral terms with the New Frontier and Badg… moreer coming there with hostile intent was unusual.
I personally believe he was going to turn out to be a former member of TNF.
I need my answers. There were a lot of rewrites, I love learning about scrapped stuff.
Yeah, it does suck that he didn't officially make the cut.
For Episode 5? Yes, it does.
Hopefully we revisit him, see what's going on with him.
As revealed/confirmed by his voice actor Dan White, Mike was originally supposed to be Ralph, one of the guys that cornered Christa by the river, which is why their models look so similar. The original result of the gunshot Clementine hears as she runs away from the group had the bullet nick "Ralph" on the left side of his face and damage his ear. When Mike is officially introduced to the players presumably the following morning of arriving in Carver's Camp, Clementine would recognize him and alert Kenny to his identity. "Ralph" reappearing in Episode 3 would mean that the players would have an opportunity to have him explain what has happened with Christa, but since the writers wanted to keep her disappearance a mystery for the indefinite future, not to mention it was similar to what they were already planning to do with Bonnie (a character is part of a group of bad guys, eventually defects over to the player's group, tries to earn player's trust, etc.), they 'recreated' him as a new character instead and, eventually, he and Bonnie would become sidelined but appreciated comic relief in Amid the Ruins before playing major roles in the plot of No Going Back that would end in their betrayal. Leaving the "Ralph" subplot in the game would have helped propagate a theme of gaining trust, make his penultimate betrayal more poignant, and possibly give us a deliberately vague clue to Christa's whereabouts.
This of course would open up the option for Clementine to confront him about what he had a part in and perhaps even forgive him depending on the circumstances. Perhaps Nick can be the one to advise Clementine on this path, since he probably feels guilty that he never got to make it up to Walter before Carver killed him. Clementine can take advantage of this moment to reveal how she felt when she had to run away and lose contact with Christa or when Omid got shot or when she had to deal with the fact that she killed Lee by shooting/leaving him. He begins to furrowedly confess that he is starting to get some of the apprehension she had with being around him, not to mention the bitterness she has no doubt been repressing. While she could've easily kept all of this dirty laundry to herself or had him be dealt with and/or taken out anonymously, he's happy that she was [wo]man enough to accept her feelings and personally confronted him over it. He agrees that he'd rather those circumstances back then didn't cause any more confusion and hopes that it won't get in the way of a settlement for peace now. Though it's ultimately up to Clementine whether she wants to forgive Mike for what he was a part of, the general idea is that Mike is fine with your decision either way because he knows that what he did was terrible and he shouldn't expect her to trust him just because he apologized. If she chooses not to forgive him, Clementine will continue to tolerate his presence in favor of just working together out of an alliance of convenience since they're both trapped in a position where there is a bigger threat controlling their lives, to which Mike respectfully accepts her stance and goes about his business.
(Note: Those who read either my original post in @dan290786 's thread or perhaps one in my rewrite thread would probably realize I'm leaving an relatively significant additional element out here, but that's honestly extraneous and would distract from the point.)
Mike the Scavenger
As revealed/confirmed by his voice actor Dan White, Mike was originally supposed to be Ralph, one of the guys that c… moreornered Christa by the river, which is why their models look so similar. The original result of the gunshot Clementine hears as she runs away from the group had the bullet nick "Ralph" on the left side of his face and damage his ear. When Mike is officially introduced to the players presumably the following morning of arriving in Carver's Camp, Clementine would recognize him and alert Kenny to his identity. "Ralph" reappearing in Episode 3 would mean that the players would have an opportunity to have him explain what has happened with Christa, but since the writers wanted to keep her disappearance a mystery for the indefinite future, not to mention it was similar to what they were already planning to do with Bonnie (a character is part of a group of bad guys, eventually defects over to the player's group,… [view original content]
More or less. Ralph completely disappears from the story after one scene unlike Winston and Victor and certain little things about Mike's actions and placement in the story makes a little more sense knowing he was originally a scavenger, so I honestly don't see the harm in considering it so since it was supposed to be the case.
Comments
Yep.
I had this planned for a while, but I could never find the time or energy to do it until yesterday.
It's perfectly okay, love.
I've been planning to write something in this thread, too, so I did 5 days ago!
Yeah, thanks for indirectly reminding me!
No problem!
I'm just gonna post this here and expand on it later.
Everybody say "Gimme dat Becca!"
For those unfamiliar with/who forgot the 400 Days characters, Becca is a supporting character in Shel's scenario. Shel is a character I tend to forget but her need to make sure her sister grows up right in a world like the Walking Dead's, despite Becca's harsh demeanor, made her the most sympathetic of the 400 days protagonists. I mentioned in the 400 Days Longer Topic that I wish her story would have been longer. This would accomplish several things:
Develop her relationship with Stephanie so her "betrayal" means more and show how her dynamic with Becca changed over time.
Develop Roman a little more as well. Perhaps expanding on Dee's theft and ensuing karma while you're at it.
Also, show off the Cancer group a little more so we can get a better idea of who each of them are and why they ended up exchanging one tyrant for another.
Back on topic, Becca is listed on TVTropes as a Shadow Archetype: while Sarah and Jane seem to represent her innocent past and neutral/bitter future, she is Clementine at her brattiest and is quick to judge the mistakes, flaws, and wrong doings of others with overly harsh criticism and punishments. So, while Becca herself is also a character I can't say I particularly cared for, she is probably the 400 Days character who arguably deserved the most emphasis in Season 2. She fits the Evil/Nebulous child/teen archetype(alongside Sarah and maybe Michelle) that would have made her a neat adversary for Clementine to deal with. She(and/or Michelle, but I'll talk about her at a later date) seems like the type of person that would have bought Carver's "the strongest must keep the sheep in the pin" B.S., could function as a "rival" for Edgy!Clementine(which I can't say I'm a fan of, but still), made the normal roles of the settlement relevant, and, at the same time, served to show the type of behavior that Carver is encouraging. Her character would be rounded out by the implications that her relationship with Shel has gotten worse since the last time we saw her, and also recurring the earlier hints that she is a troubled teen trying to put on a brave face with a cold attidude. She would most likely be determinately doomed to die at the hands of either Clementine(giving her/player a chance at payback), Troy(I guess because he likes hurting women, children, and women-children? Just throwing out ideas), Carver(To reinforce his villainy by having him kill someone who wholeheartedly supports him for being truly weak-willed), the Walkers(when they overrun Howe's Hardware, with the option of bringing her back later), or even Sarah(to show the breakdown of her character;YMMV on this one, though), but at least the 400 Days DLC would contribute a little more to Season 2's plot. At bare minimum, I feel like that would have been the type of thing to make Episode 3 feel a little more substantial in length/content.
Note: In case you're wondering, yes, this is cut and pasted straight from dan's old thread.
400 days cast for wasted characters.
Wellington for wasted location. S2 seemed to be almost all about it, then S3 threw it away.
I normally wouldn't do something like this here, but since this thread has been out of commission long enough that I forgot my original rules/format, I'll just post my original impressions of my bae in the latest installment start to finish...Ava!
(Amiibo Hunt Successful!!!)
Ava seemed poised to finally give Clementine a proper "evil" counterpart, given her similar height, , having taken a quick liking to AJ, and her introduction by David(to whom she earned the honorary rank of second in command) somewhat mirroring an explanation Lee can give about Clementine. And a comment about a dropped flashback involving a "Carver-like character" from a December interview Melissa Hutchinson could've also been secretly referring to her, given she is introduced as a chummy member of the New Frontier back when they were worthy of being deemed good people by Edgy!Clem and seemed legitimately interested in both her and AJ.
She also could've turned out to be Conrad's estranged daughter, given he alludes to being a parent himself while suggesting Javier gives Gabe some space, the easy to make impression she was at least in her late teens to early 20s, and the story's themes about family, strained relationships, and justice/revenge could tie him in with her perfectly as a bonus backstory element. The fact that Thicker than Water retroactively confirmed that she had history in Prescott just added fuel to the fire for that theory.
Combining these two points, she'd be a genuinely compassionate babe despite her creepy(read:obviously evil) exterior, but something of a fatalist obsessed with having a baby to call her own in the apocalypse, both to satisfy a genuine desire to raise one due to her affinity for children and out of a Freudian chip on her shoulder caused by whatever fallout she had with Conrad. To this end, she'd end up capitalizing on whatever Clementine did to piss David off to take AJ for herself, reasoning that while she really did like Clementine and feels bad about having to separate the two, everything happens for a reason. All of this would thereby also make her a foil to Carver, Jane, and David himself.
One facet of how Gabe(and arguably Luke and Eleanor as well) feels like a wasted character is the distinction regarding his stance on life. Specifically, his ability to actually kill someone.
(Strike me down with all of your hatred...)
Something that's somewhat bothered me in Season Two as well is the fact that these games seemingly put so much stock into being able to shoot guns, being willing to kill people who oppose you, and generally being a deadly badass--everyone's obsessed with death! Survival is more than just killing before you're killed, you know: it's also about being smart, being pragmatic, and being careful. Guns are tool for protection, not for wantonly taking lives just because you have the power to do so.
One of the main traits of Gabe's characterization is his idealization of David, with his behavior and personal beliefs very much being rooted in how he believes his dad The Soldier would act. In Ties that Bind Part 2 , however, when put into a situation where he feels his uncle/ally Javier/Clementine's life is being threatened by the aggressive with vengeance Conrad, Gabe is quick to advocate shooting him if he doesn't back off but ultimately doesn't go as far as actually doing the deed, at worst only firing a warning shot to get his point across. And indeed in Thicker than Water, he for better or worse later gets extremely angry at [determinately] Javier and David himself for having actually killed Conrad and Clint, respectively. The obvious conclusion is that while his inherited preference for action/aggression means he wants to be able to kill if it's necessary, his morals ultimately prevent him from feeling comfortable with actually doing so, even if that's only limited to someone who was supposed to be an ally.
I feel like a key moment of positive Character Development with him would be a moment where he confronts and Badger, The Specialist, or better yet a nicer character who's attacked him or someone he cares about and has the at his undeniable mercy with every intention of killing them, determinately realizes how much he's behaving like Badger or initially Conrad and decides not to become a needless murderer, with later story events showing that this was indeed the right choice to make for once. Another situation that I was expecting that might clash with my point a bit here is one where he specifically is forced to shoot/kill someone to protect someone he cares about or maybe even being forced to shoot the rampant David when he uncontrollably attacks Javier after several consecutive incidents of aggravated assault. Then Javier, Ava, Clementine, or even David himself could talk to him about having taken a life and reassuring him that while discretion is a virtue he should try to hold onto, there will also be other situations where he needs to be ready to pull the trigger and move on if it's truly the only way.
Wasted plot: Javier trying to gather allies to overthrow Joan (depending on your choices if you spared Max or maybe convincing Lingard and Clint to aid you) and expose her crimes to everyone in Richmond, try to remove her out of power, take Richmond without violence and get justice once and for all.
I thought that would be the premise of episode 4, i wish that would've been an option. Even when you try to be a good guy the outcome its still the same.
I'm sure that was the original plan, judging by the episode selection screenshots for 4 & 5, but of course It didn't make the cut because it "didn't tell a authentic Walking Dead story".
They always scrap the good stuff.
Oh yeah, that was definitely a ripoff! Though I'm pretty sure a four way civil war was supposed to happen anyway.
Yeah.
This didn't happen in my game, soo, your problem. I liked the purpose of the scene, not the scene itself, mind you.
By the best character in the episode, I meant his role.
When the thumbnails look better than the episodes.
Joan and Clint being turned into determinants and dissapearing especially because of the leaks showing that telltale already had scenarios planned for them and Eleanor even played a role in then making her character not as useless as it is in the real from the gallows.
Agreed, thoughI liked the purpose of the scene and the scene in concept...
But the implementation SUCKED!
Yep. Legit moral choice lost in pro-David playthroughs, too.
They ran off as Kenny was on his way out, remember. Arvo left first, Mike either points out that they can't stay or is told to just leave, and Bonnie is scared off by Kenny as he comes out.
K'yeah!
Just gonna gather and leave this info here for a future post, here or elsewhere.
I apologize for any misunderstandings or dashed hopes you might have in advance. Please ignore!
Found this in a certain older thread. Felt like it'd be a good suggestion for most.
(Also, keep the pointless flaming and petty shit to a fuckin minimum. Please and thank you!)
...What?
This really bothered me, too. He's been the protector of this town for years. I won't be surprised if they scrapped a "helping Eleanor get people to safety" subquest. I would have loved that... The 'tear gas' scene should have been drawn out. I can see Eleanor wanting to help the citizens get out of Prescott.
THIS. Honestly, I think scrapping the "him knowing Badger" plot was a mistake. It would have given him depth, imo. It also creates an interesting background for him. Him having a rivalry(sorta) with Badger would have been nice. Turning out to be a former member of TNF would have been a good twist, having pissed of the organization and escaping.
To sum it up, I think the theme "Rivalry" would have added to the story. I used to imagine Eleanor and Dr Lingard as rivals, too.
She meant to say that he is forgiving/not the type to be mad at you for long.
For pudding's sake, Dabby! We talked about this! It's your dirty mind that makes you think that.
I am willing to believe Tripp fell for her when they met. Though we have no knowledge about how and when they met. He probably forced her into a relationship, but she wasn't ready. (Just like when he was like "We should be a thing", which clearly annoyed you.)
I need answers!
Please, Telltale, make these The Player's Space episodes for ANF!
This wasn't really a contributing post in and of itself. I just wanted to do some general posts about Tripp and sometimes I go back to older threads to gather miscellaneous older thoughts/material to consider/cannibalize when righting it/them. Sorry for the confusion!
But, since you decided to reply, I'll look over your concerns:
That screentime of Ava is pretty much the primary thing that re-energized my interest in "Season 3" after it gradually faded over time. Thus, my interest in her from before the game came out and my legitimate love of her when it finally did meant I was pretty much guaranteed to [intend to] choose her over him.
Yeah, pretty much. At the very least, they could've had her bring it up and have Clementine state that they have no time.
Yeah, they really should've kept (more of) the material regarding the strict rules of Prescott.
Funny idea to give him a bit of a rivalry with Badger, but it makes sense with what you suggest and it also gives him some more contrast with Conrad. Though it reminds me of that matchup list I made before Above the Law came out, where I left him off outside of potentially assisting Eleanor. Speaking of which...
Guilty. Then the game actually came out and "Dimitri" turned out to be a pretty chill dude, all things considered.
Not too sure about rivalry itself being a full out theme, though. Especially given how Season 2 turned out.
Admittedly, I didn't fulling read and/or think about some of these, so that one was just along for the ride.
Yet another part of the problems.
If that was the case, then it's triply dumb!
Agreed, I suppose.
Say, remember how in pro-David/Gabe playthroughs or at least if you decide determinately to go to David's house, Javier can tell Gabe that Clementine hates his dad and that he should talk to her about that? Would've been nice to see that pay off for those who shot Conrad, assuming it didn't[whatever the fuck I was supposed to say here].
Note: Okay, so we're gonna do some weird ass crossover with my composite character thread by the end here, so I'm gonna have to ask you to pay attention while I break things down.
Let's talk about a ghost this time. A ghost I shall call...
Anita Garcia!
So first off, let's go into where her name comes from: Anita Garcia was the sister of Javier and David, the wife of Hector, and most notably, the mom of Marianna. I believe that was meant to be her in the family photo and while she was gonna be dead during ANF regardless, any actual mention in the story proper was presumably dummied out fairly late in development before/around the time the dialogue was changed to have Marianna be David's daughter instead.
Now I want to clarify that the reason I bring her up is because she is merely relevant to my point, ergo, this is actually not only about her but about another character--Gabe's mom! Or rather, because of the change I noted above, Gabe and Marianna's mom, whom, due to being unnamed and unseen, I shall dub Grace Garcia. And I think that is a somewhat fitting honorific because despite her relevance to the family dynamic, Grace is only really mentioned as a memory by the latter in the junkyard hub sequence(which I somehow missed on my first playthrough, btw), namely that she used to tell her a story that she always thought was kinda dumb but she appreciates it nonetheless. Which is a shame because given that family is a huge theme in ANF, you'd think we'd learn more about David's wife considering it was initially assumed that Gabe apparently resented Kate in part for not being, acting like, and/or even trying to replace her and even Mariana subtlely admits to secretly missing her, but nope. Gotta focus on her husbando. Then again, the same can somewhat be said for Mariana herself, but one thing at a time here.
So ultimately, that leaves us with technically TWO family members that had no relevance to the story proper, one of which ended up being unnamed and nominally playing the small but important role of both in the backstory. So, because Grace was reworked into Kate before the game was ready to be officially promoted and Gabe’s mom also goes unnamed and unmentioned(for some reason), I elect we follow through with the final product’s example and make all three the same character.
Ah, that makes sense, it's okay!
Aww, didn't you miss having convos with me?
I seriously think your love for her is adorable.
I really love and miss her myself.
I always imagined her disappearing in the end. Not that... becoming determinant and dying.
Can't it be someone else? I know Clementine will be rude to her. But we needed interactions between these two...
Who? Conrad? I do remember Clemenem suggesting having Conrad be Eleanor's assistant instead of owning a bar. This is actually pretty neat!
Go on! I am curious.
I did so after Episode 3 and 4 came out. I ain't guilty.
Glad he didn't end up a villain. I can't imagine him evil!
I didn't mean it as being a main theme. As a secondary/minor one only.
I see what you did there~
If you prefer streams, that's okay, you know. I would love ANF streams. I'll have to dedicate one or two days to watch the S1 and S2 ones. I am sure there's interesting stuff there.
Maybe...
Yeah, me too.
I was actually trying to think of who'd work best there and Clementine applied a little more than Tripp for exactly those reasons.
No, Tripp. He was the only character without any clear motivation or role in the group to make him feel deserving of an archenemy/rival of his own. Especially once you take the prediction that Max would pull a Heel-Face Turn in account.
And while Conrad helping Eleanor out at one point is indeed something I considered, it was for if he's still around during From the Gallows rather than his actual occupation.
I was just the Eleanor vs. Lingard thing immediately below.
...Wha...?
Same here.
True, but I meant that I haven't watched Player's Opinion before so I have no room to have much of an opinion.
I understood what you were trying to say.
But yes, I agree, it would have been nice to pay off. Seriously, he should have told them only if we treated him bad.
For example, if you leave with Kate in Above The Law, Gabe will be either happy or angry to see you depending on how you treat him. He is the perfect example of how character relationships should work. The "Conrad's murder reveal" scene was poorly done.
Oh, good! Cause I copied that from an older post of mine and I couldn't figure out what the fuck that was supposed to mean.
Honestly, I'm not completely sure why I specified the Shoot Conrad scenarios back then since it has little to nothing to do with that.
Damn straight! They missed a huge opportunity with him in general that I should make a post about assuming I somehow haven't already.
Mistakes like that happen.
But our choices regarding Gabe should have influenced his decision whether to tell Tripp about it, so it's good that you brought it up.
You definitely should! I saw the one above, about his ability to kill, and you did a great job!
I think you're right. If it was Tripp, players would get suspicious of him. I've seen comments on Youtube saying how Tripp didn't even bother to get his people to safety. Well, good to see that people noticed this! I remember one Youtuber pointing it out on that during his playthrough.
Agreed about that. But the him 'knowing Badger' plot would have made sense. Taking into account what Ms. Alyssa said about him being the most effective defender of Prescott and the deleted audio where he recognizes Badger by name, would lead to the assumption that Tripp was able to fight him off a lot of times.
I am glad he did.
I always imagined him helping us out, joining our group, becoming Javi's right hand man/close friend, and... s-surviving the the game. I just need a minute. 
I genuinely thought that he would be one of the few characters to survive in the end. I still can't believe they gave us an option to kill him...
I actually thought he was helping her off-screen.
I meant to say that I imagined Eleanor and Lingard as rivals after Episode 3 and 4 came out. Sorry if I confused you!
I haven't, either. They started doing them for Minecraft, Guardians of The Galaxy and Batman. They talk about ideas that didn't make it to the final game and why they didn't, I think.
(I need to watch that movie at some point.)
Exactly.
Hmm...I never really put much thought into that. I just assumed that Prescott was on relatively neutral terms with the New Frontier and Badger coming there with hostile intent was unusual.
Still, Badger is already a very personal enemy for Conrad and Javier and I'd like to think a correctly written Tripp, while not necessarily indifferent about him, would be able to conduct himself in a more composed/professional manner compared to them. The way he acts in at least relevant scenes in the game proper definitely fits with that idea.
Yeah, it does suck that he didn't officially make the cut.
I personally believe he was going to turn out to be a former member of TNF.
I need my answers. There were a lot of rewrites, I love learning about scrapped stuff.
For Episode 5? Yes, it does.
Hopefully we revisit him, see what's going on with him.
That would've been interesting as well.
Same.
Yeah, hopefully.
Mike the Scavenger
As revealed/confirmed by his voice actor Dan White, Mike was originally supposed to be Ralph, one of the guys that cornered Christa by the river, which is why their models look so similar. The original result of the gunshot Clementine hears as she runs away from the group had the bullet nick "Ralph" on the left side of his face and damage his ear. When Mike is officially introduced to the players presumably the following morning of arriving in Carver's Camp, Clementine would recognize him and alert Kenny to his identity. "Ralph" reappearing in Episode 3 would mean that the players would have an opportunity to have him explain what has happened with Christa, but since the writers wanted to keep her disappearance a mystery for the indefinite future, not to mention it was similar to what they were already planning to do with Bonnie (a character is part of a group of bad guys, eventually defects over to the player's group, tries to earn player's trust, etc.), they 'recreated' him as a new character instead and, eventually, he and Bonnie would become sidelined but appreciated comic relief in Amid the Ruins before playing major roles in the plot of No Going Back that would end in their betrayal. Leaving the "Ralph" subplot in the game would have helped propagate a theme of gaining trust, make his penultimate betrayal more poignant, and possibly give us a deliberately vague clue to Christa's whereabouts.
This of course would open up the option for Clementine to confront him about what he had a part in and perhaps even forgive him depending on the circumstances. Perhaps Nick can be the one to advise Clementine on this path, since he probably feels guilty that he never got to make it up to Walter before Carver killed him. Clementine can take advantage of this moment to reveal how she felt when she had to run away and lose contact with Christa or when Omid got shot or when she had to deal with the fact that she killed Lee by shooting/leaving him. He begins to furrowedly confess that he is starting to get some of the apprehension she had with being around him, not to mention the bitterness she has no doubt been repressing. While she could've easily kept all of this dirty laundry to herself or had him be dealt with and/or taken out anonymously, he's happy that she was [wo]man enough to accept her feelings and personally confronted him over it. He agrees that he'd rather those circumstances back then didn't cause any more confusion and hopes that it won't get in the way of a settlement for peace now. Though it's ultimately up to Clementine whether she wants to forgive Mike for what he was a part of, the general idea is that Mike is fine with your decision either way because he knows that what he did was terrible and he shouldn't expect her to trust him just because he apologized. If she chooses not to forgive him, Clementine will continue to tolerate his presence in favor of just working together out of an alliance of convenience since they're both trapped in a position where there is a bigger threat controlling their lives, to which Mike respectfully accepts her stance and goes about his business.
(Note: Those who read either my original post in @dan290786 's thread or perhaps one in my rewrite thread would probably realize I'm leaving an relatively significant additional element out here, but that's honestly extraneous and would distract from the point.)
I enjoyed reading that.
So, you consider Mike and Ralph the same person?
More or less. Ralph completely disappears from the story after one scene unlike Winston and Victor and certain little things about Mike's actions and placement in the story makes a little more sense knowing he was originally a scavenger, so I honestly don't see the harm in considering it so since it was supposed to be the case.