Clementine seems a bit "cold"
I always tried to go with options that disagreed with killing throughout my playthroughs, but in the third season she kills many without appearing to show any remorse. I found that annoying. Also why the swearing.
Anyone agree/disagree
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Any semblance of character building in the first two seasons was thrown out so we could play someone else. It is very annoying, and one of the reasons some people were dissatisfied with ANF. The Final Season should give players a chance to fix this, though.
I hope so.
Yeah we're playing Clem again so i guess it's okay now.
I agree, I found it really annoying. In my Season 1 and Season 2 play through, my Clem had killed 0 people, didnt kill the stranger, didnt shoot Lee, didnt shoot Kenny, ect. Then ANF came Clem's just killing everyone. For me I found it just super strange, and kinda obviously showed Telltale didnt care too much about past choices.
It's basically an epic failure involved with the "#MyClementine" thing--except turned up to 11.
So rather than a Clementine that just doesn't necessarily act in accordance to the choices any given player made regarding her, we get the ANF!Clementine that also acts almost nothing like Clementine should.
She's been called "Mini-Jane" by some for a reason. And even that isn't good in it's own right.
whats the "#MyClementine" thing?
It's something of a marketing meme Telltale used on Twitter when Season 2 was about to be released.
I wonder how my choices will affe-
Huh. Alright then
I love it
I mean it wasnt a meme, it just became a meme because of how much of a lie it was lmao.
Never forget: SAVE THE GIRL!?!?!?
It was upsetting that Clem's personality in ANF wasn't tailored by how you developed her in the past seasons. In the first two seasons I was making decisions that were building her up to become a very calloused, hardened, lone-wolf character who is willing to kill in order to protect herself and those close to her. In my opinion I think this makes for more interesting and tragic development. For the most part I lucked out and Clementine acted the way she probably would have if I had been playing as her. Though I do feel bad for those of the fanbase who developed a softer more charismatic Clementine during season 2. It was a mistake making Javier the lead instead of Clem. Luckily, Clem will be returning as the lead for the final season and players will once again regain control over the majority of her personality.
I've had an idea. If they found the Garcia/new frontier storyline necessary they should have created another new character called Tangerine. They could replace Clem in s3 so no annoying things you didn't ask for would happen.
Looking back, I think I see what TTG was trying to do. In ANF, Clementine thinks AJ is dead. She essentially gives up on her hope and kind of stops caring. That's why she was had this reckless behavior when first meeting Javier and when she crossed paths with the New Frontier. When David reveals that AJ was alive, her character shifts a little bit to be less reckless and more helpful.
However, obviously seen in people's reactions to Clementine's change of character, TTG did quite execute that characterization in Clementine. The first fatal mistake is that they showed a screenshot of Clementine with AJ prior to the season's start. This made the I-lost-AJ dynamic hard to accept because that would mean TTG either A) revealed a massive spoiler in AJ fate (a.k.a he isn't dead) B ) pulled a ruse over the fans by teasing AJ, or C) had an even more massive rewrite as it was already clear there was one thanks to the slaughterhouse screenshot. Not only that, but TTG didn't make Clementine's emotions very convincing. She kind of just came off as a bratty teenager.
The swearing jerk that she was could of worked if they made it obvious Clem was hurting inside and this was her way of coping in a sense. A great place to show that would have been when Clem was holding Javier at gunpoint. Her dialogue in the game was too casual for knocking over a tree to crash a vehicle (not Hutchinson's acting but rather the written dialogue). Some cold, direct dialogue while she was rummage through the truck for supplies and to see who Javier was affiliated with would have helped. Line could include her demanding to see his brand, how she was ready to shot, and/or how she trust no one. Anything to show that something was seriously wrong with her would have helped. There also could have been dialogue to help convey this at Prescott if it had been more of a hub than what we got. People could have made looks or given side eye to you and Clem as you walked though Prescott. Exploring and people asking if you knew "that girl" would have been lovely. And I could go on with more examples.
Like I said, I think that is what TTG was trying to do. It would have made the drastic change in character more believable. However, the execution wasn't there and Clem became a jerk for half the season. Hopefully TTG will do a bit better in the dialogue and writing to better convey the emotions and feelings of the characters. While still polarizing since it wasn't a Clementine centered game , ANF could have been better and a nice game to possibly do a spin-off story. But alas, here we are at the final season. I just hoping for a good game to close everything up properly.
Or better yet, they could've just used Mariana or Ava instead.
I guess I understand where you're coming from, although I would still think there should be more dialogue and action paths for her depending on options chosen in previous seasons. Maybe I was remembering lee quotes too much "Clementine is one of the few good things left in the world" and then within the first episode of s3 you realize that there is nothing truly good about her. She has just become that survival jerk you spent hours in previous seasons trying so hard to avoid.
My Clementine's actions made sense for the most part, considering Lee and Kenny had raised her to be able to make the hard choices. She shot the stranger, shot Lee, watched Kenny kill Carver, etc. It seemed like Kenny's death had made her very cold and distant in the present day, but she eventually bounced back after being with people again and finding a new purpose of searching for AJ. Most out of character moment for me was her willingly leaving AJ with TNF without a fight.
Yeah I went a similar route as far as developing my Clementine's personality. So in ANF the way she acted actualy made sense. Most people like to make their Lee a perfect saint but I prefer to develop him as somebody who had been hardened by the apocalypse and his past and is willing to sacrifice is humanity for the well being of the group. My Lee taught Clementine that sometimes you have to make the hard decisions to survive. In season two the lessons my version of Lee taught Clementine really had an impact on her, and she always did what she felt necessary to survive and didn't give a damn about what others thought of her. For me this actually flowed pretty well with how she acted when ANF came around. When I played the first episode of ANF I actually thought (_Holy crap the choices I made as her in past seasons really tailored how she is acting now! Good job Telltale! _) Then I tried to look up the other versions of her and was dissapointed to see that there weren't any. Throughout ANF she for the most part she acted the way I had developed her in previous seasons. Except for the AJ seperation scene. AJ was Clementine's son and she was highly protective over him yet when David and Ava took AJ away Clementine really didn't put up much of a fight. This was so bizarre considering how she talked about AJ and the way she took care of him in the other flashbacks.
A lot of people like Lee, but I'm not sure where you got that most people tried to make him a perfect saint. I still really like him, but I drove that pitchfork straight into that cannibals chest in episode 2. It was a really big moment when I realized that Clem had saw me do that, and realizing I didn't need to, I did it out of pure anger towards him. It actually made an unsettling connection that I had done that when thinking about what Lee had done prior to the game, and cemented how wrong it was to act on those impulses. There's such a huge divide between what we would do, and what the people who look up to us would take away from that. There are necessary things, but generally we want those we've helped raise to live better, and be better, than we were.
I understand what you mean. When I look back at it, the idea could have worked with the multiple endings. They would have to treat the first episode as an intersection or junction point where all the different Clementines crossed paths (if that made any sense). Essentially, Clem losing AJ and beating herself up for it could have been a shared event across all the different paths. For that first episode, small tweaks in dialogue and the way lines were said could have been a good starting point as dialogue becomes more divergent by episode 3. Considering that all endings have Clem leaving Richmond, you can have another shared event amongst the paths. Then the final season can diverge again.
Just trying to justify the different endings of Season 2 for having a remerging point is hard. TTG really wrote themselves in a corner with those multiple endings.
I would do a more survival style Clem just to fit better in with s3, but telling an 8 yr old that killing people would be a good choice in certain circumstances wouldn't sit right with me. Also in the dairy I was thinking along the lines of "How hypocritical would it be to kill these guys just because they were killing some guys." I guess I'm turning into my father, trying to turn most situations into a lesson.
Honestly, I think the best thing they could have done with ANF was have Clem not show up until episode 3. This would have allowed for the Garcias to build up some time with us, the player, prior to Clementine's spotlight coming into the story. Clementine's best time to enter would have been at Richmond. Maybe having her be an assistant to Lingard, Ava, or David would be a better way to represent the different S2 endings. Each role provides different dialogue options, emotions, and how she feels about David (ranging from tolerating him at best to hating his guts at worst). Interacting with her reveals how her allegiance to the NF is very weak. While Joan's actions would be the tipping point to which Clem severs herself from the NF, your dialogue with her will determine how helpful she is to you and whether she helps you overturn Joan's rule because you persuaded her or because your actions are convenient to her leaving. Just an idea...
I only wish someone at Telltale had had these kind of ideas before s3 was released. Although having played s3 more times than id like to admit, I think the s2 endings would be the best end for the old characters, the new season did not do them much justice, perhaps maybe some cameos here and there Just to let you know how they are doing but nothing major.
Exactly. Some people impose their own values on Lee but you have to remember that he was on his way to prison for killing his wife's lover in a fit of rage. He had a good heart and good intentions for Clem but he wasn't a saint.
And it is sort of meta gaming for me to say this, but i noticed that in Telltale games the "bad" or darker choices usually seem to have the better payoff storywise. That, and the fact that Clem needs to be able to do anything necessary for her to survive, are the reasons I taught her those lessons as Lee and why i continued acting in accordance with those lessons in s2.
Maybe the darker choices are better but I could never bring myself to make them, especially with a child in the picture. I think the most controversial choice I made including s2 was to kill Larry in the meat locker. The rest were all anti killing and theft etc.
Allot of people are comparing her to Jane, but even Jane wasn't as cold as ANF Clem, Jane at least showed quite a bit of remorse after killing Vitali to save Kenny, it feels like Telltale tried to force her character into becoming the typical 'badass' character, shoot first and ask questions later. What's worse about the decisions that don't affect Clementine's personality are the ones that affect her decisions, so just because she shot Kenny she wants to shoot David? That was over a year ago and my Clementine also shot Lee which had no effect. Also she kisses Gabe if she goes with Jane? I'm sorry but what?
Honestly Clementine has become so bland, generic and uninteresting that by the end of ANF i could have cared less whether she died or what happened to her.
I actually thought those were some of the better correlations.
Okay, just the Kenny one, but to be fair, the entire setup that involves the Jane one was unnecessary.
Eh, I'm still not entirely for the Kenny one, I understand the situation would've left a mark on Clementine but I still find it difficult to believe how much of an impact it had on her due to her lack of an actual relationship with Kenny, none in Season One and a quite mixed relationship in Season Two that transpires into a perfect family prior to ANF?
To be honest, I'm actually quite surprised that they're doing the worst on their main project that got them their fame and the other games they've been making throughout have often been of higher quality and even length. Perhaps Telltale is trying too hard to be perfect or simply overworking themselves?
This is not a surprise, a lot is railroaded in one direction, like the diverse endings of season 2 were forced into one ending in ANF. Clementines personality is no exception, just some very weak flavour is added that almost totally forgets your previous interactions.
I didn't make him a saint either. I'm not saying that everybody made him one but typically in my experience I saw that most people make him this perfect saint. I'm not judging those who do I just personally like to develop my characters with flaws that they have to overcome when I plays these games.
True enough.
Honestly, I kinda got the sense that they lose more interest in it as they go along and that particularly comes through with how they use Clementine.
I agree that was definitely one of the most bizarre decisions made in ANF. Jane always emphasized to Clementine that it is typically better to avoid getting attached to other people. The Jane ending is the one that makes the least sense for this scenario to occur.
Jane was also supposed to be a Shadow Archetype to Clementine(and Luke) to show what she could be like in the future. Which includes her promiscuity, I guess.
Ironically, the one thing Clementine might still have a better handle over, as far as we've seen.
I've been feeling that too, they've stripped Clementine's main character title off what could've been her most important season yet and they deviated from their original story-line to try and be closer to the comics, I understand why it's needed for say, Game of Thrones, but I think that The Final Season should have nothing to do with the comics. To be honest, that was part of the allure for me, a different story in the same setting.
Honestly, I don't think any decision would've gone great with Clementine kissing Gabe or not.
100% agree, my favorite part of Season 1 was how this was a story that was completely stand alone (aside from Glen and Hershel cameos) from the comics but told a story that I found to be way WAY more compelling to play. Its just sad knowing how well the series was doing without trying to connect and be like the comics, just for Telltale to go "But what if, we were more like the comics, something no one is asking for?" and just watching Season 3 just be a disappointing mess.
As happy as I am Clem is going to be the focus of Season 4, the damage is honestly done. Clem is the focus of Season 1 and Season 2, then Season 3 goes "oops" and now Season 4 she is back to the focus. Thats already really clunky, plus Clem doesnt even feel like Clem anymore, so I think it'll be strange. I really hope Season 4 is going to be great, but theres always going to be that extremely clunky chapter of ANF just showing up and causing a hiccup in the series.
true
I think TT knew ahead of time that the Vast Majority of People would be supportive of Clementine for most decisions due to Fan Bias. I'm guessing they made her a scumbag in ANF mainly to provide balance against that Bias.
If Conrad's excessive development for the 10% of players who kept him alive is accurate, they were probably right. No idea how they thought this was a great way to handle the game, though.
Considering the vast majority sided with Clem even when she was doing things out of character debunks this. I mean did Telltale think everyone is not going to side with the character everyone bought the game for? Guess they thought this game actually was going to have new comers lmao