Bissexual Clementine

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  • probably done intentionally, since these threads (the comparatively few that there are) "coincidentally" are as controversial as character vs. character threads (or misleading information)

    Chibikid posted: »

    Well this thread blew up quickly.

  • @IforIas we still have to try to keep this civil. I get what you mean, but if we can't keep this discussion serious, we can kiss this topic and constructive criticism goodbye.

  • edited April 2018

    Personally, I'll be fine without any sort of teenage romance in the final Season. It always fails to be in any way interesting or unique in media. Really not my cup of tea.

  • Just a reminder, let's please avoid dragging personal attacks and insults into your arguments. You can criticize an idea without making things get personal, so let's stick with that. I had to clean up a few posts and I'm leaving an open heads up to ask that we stay on topic from here out.

  • As long as it's only optional, I don't care. But it would be even better if romance won't be a part of TFS AT ALL.

  • This is important for the story because...?

  • I think if they cover a romance in the final season, it would be great to give choice. I didn't like Clem and Gabe and I would love to have the option for bisexual Clementine. But I would rather not have a romance, unless we maybe get a bigger time jump, which I also don't really want.

  • I'm reminded of how someone earlier said "you got Javier, let us have Clem," and I'm wondering how having Clem be another straight za survivor is necessary.

  • agreed, but at this point, it wouldn't be too early anymore

    trishaharry posted: »

    I think if they cover a romance in the final season, it would be great to give choice. I didn't like Clem and Gabe and I would love to have

  • What does this even mean?

  • Agree

    LeeClemKen posted: »

    As long as it's only optional, I don't care. But it would be even better if romance won't be a part of TFS AT ALL.

  • I don’t know, why is having her be bi necessary? Why is throwing any political shit in a game about zombies necessary? In a time when everything has now become politicized, I would like one thing to act as an escape from the overall shitty state of the world thank you very much.

    I'm reminded of how someone earlier said "you got Javier, let us have Clem," and I'm wondering how having Clem be another straight za survivor is necessary.

  • The best option is if she is asexual so there is no romance at all

  • Is this thread actually still going?

  • there are plenty of games like that for you, we should get some too--our identity should not be considered a political statement. and to say that this game is apolitical without Clem being gay or trans is false. look at crawford's and Jane's treatment of anyone who's different. all those instances of lee dealing with race. why must the oppressed be denied opportunities to see themselves as heroes in media when what little appearance they get is slanderous?

    I don’t know, why is having her be bi necessary? Why is throwing any political shit in a game about zombies necessary? In a time when everyt

  • edited April 2018

    No game ever made should even have gender identity politics, sexual orientation bs or anything like that in it unless it is a game like mafia 3 where race and gender is essential to the story to capture historical accuracy or something like that.

    I don’t know, why is having her be bi necessary? Why is throwing any political shit in a game about zombies necessary? In a time when everyt

  • there are plenty of games like that for you, we should get some too

    I can think of several games, and other forms of media, that have gay or bi main characters, so stop acting like you don't have any. It seems like your making a lot of implications about me with that statement, I'm avoiding saying anything because I don't want to put words in your mouth.

    look at crawford's and Jane's treatment of anyone who's different.

    What Crawford did at least was relevant to the story and theme of the episode. As for Jane, what are you even talking about? Are you referring to her treatment towards Arvo? Her treatment of him had NOTHING to do with his physical disability, but because he was a complete stranger doing shady shit like hiding medical supplies and could possibly be a part of a bigger group.

    all those instances of lee dealing with race.

    Like what, Kenny's "urban" comment in Starved For Help, that's literally the only time any emphasis is put on Lee's race throughout the entirety of Season 1, and the series as a whole. And it's not even like that impacts Kenny's view of Lee, his view of him is solely dependent on the choices you make. He can be completely loyal to Lee and view him as a friend based on your choices. Other than that one tiny instance, which was meant to be more humorous than making any sort of political statement, Lee's race is essentially irrelevant. They could have made him white and that, along with one determinant dialogue option in regards to Larry, would have been the only thing that changed.

    This implication that a game or character is somehow magically better because it's "progressive" or features "representation" is asinine. A game should be judged on story, gameplay, characters, and overall quality, features like race, gender, religion, sexuality should be completely ignored when judging anything, and I don't just mean for video games. We are not defined by what we are, but who we are, and it's time people stop viewing themselves as belonging to some sort of group or collective and see themselves as individuals. As Melton said, unless it in someway contributes to the overall plot or is essential to the story, it shouldn't even be a focus.

    there are plenty of games like that for you, we should get some too--our identity should not be considered a political statement. and to say

  • well, since you're cherry-picking examples and 'examples,' how about you make clear why exactly being lgbt is political but being straight and cisgender is not. if you can't, you have no argument, because the next post that I'm prompted to, I will definitely point out where your justifications from that last post are misleading. (and no, you replying isn't immediate grounds for rebuttal and whatnot)

    there are plenty of games like that for you, we should get some too I can think of several games, and other forms of media, that hav

  • Essentially.

    The best option is if she is asexual so there is no romance at all

  • This is nuts...just have a male friend and a female friend...have an optional kiss and be done with it...the straits can be happy...the gay peeps can be happy....and we can argue about it till the next TWD game comes out with a whole new cast...then we will argue about x being an asshole and y being a saint.....TWD Circle of LIFE!!!

  • .then we will argue about x being an asshole and y being a saint.....TWD Circle of LIFE!!!

    That fact that this was a thing that happened during ANF is proof that this series had fallen into a rut and the fanbase is incredibly fickle and disjointed.

    This is nuts...just have a male friend and a female friend...have an optional kiss and be done with it...the straits can be happy...the gay

  • it was ambiguous, had to be clarified outside of the game/official media, tacked on at the last minute, and, from the looks of it, entirely choice-based. being an orientation isn't a choice, and it certainly isn't shown well when it's ambiguous. non-straights should have the same in-your-face positive representation that straights do, and it's not gonna hurt anyone to do it well. and it can and has been done without putting sex into it.

    DabigRG posted: »

    .then we will argue about x being an asshole and y being a saint.....TWD Circle of LIFE!!! That fact that this was a thing that happ

  • edited April 2018

    Cherry-picking? These are actual facts, based on dialogue, character motivations, and the situations they were placed in. But fine, you point to me an example where someone brought up or had a problem with Lee's race and how the writers were making some sort of political statement with it. Or how Jane was some closeted ableist.

    I'm not saying every single instance of gay or bi characters was meant to be political, and even if they were, they were executed in a way that very few people actually had a problem with. The gold standard of something like this should be something like Ellie and Riley from TLOU. It wasn't something just thrown in at random, forced, completely in your face, or anything like that. The writers spent hours developing the bond and friendship between the two, it felt natural because of their chemistry. You yourself were just complaining about the execution of Javi in ANF, and that right there is when it can become a problem, the execution, as well as the intention. Are the writers doing it because they genuinely want to develop a connection, possible relationship, between two characters, or just to show off how progressive they are? Again, it comes down to content and quality. I've voiced frustrations over plenty of straight romances (I've been one of the most vocal regarding Clem and Gabe's because it was forced, in your face, and poorly executed), so don't go saying my problem with this is solely because I, a longtime advocate for gay marriage, don't want gay or bi characters in a game. In large part, I have little faith they can execute it properly and the fans won't stop themselves from making a big deal out of it, on both sides. You can have those characters in it, but treat them the same as any straight character if you want to avoid it being politicized, don't make them out to be special or somehow more important based solely on the fact that they're gay or bi. And the problem is studios and other content creators don't take that into account, which is why some become politicized and attacked, and others are welcomed and beloved.

    well, since you're cherry-picking examples and 'examples,' how about you make clear why exactly being lgbt is political but being straight a

  • Actually, I was referring to the whole "[Team]Kate vs. David" thing that started around Above the Law. :neutral:

    Sorry bout dat!

    it was ambiguous, had to be clarified outside of the game/official media, tacked on at the last minute, and, from the looks of it, entirely

  • okay, fair enough.

    with Lee, on top of Kenny's then-minor racism, he also put up with Larry's. even if Larry wasn't antagonizing Lee over being black, he still called Lee 'boy' when addressing him, which is racist infantilization of a grown man. Larry could be just referring to Lee being younger than him, but he doesn't afford this to any other adults in the group even though he clearly shows distaste for anyone who's not Lilly or Clem. additionally, everyone assumes Clem is Lee's daughter immediately with 2 exceptions; Carley, who's done enough research to know that they're not related, and Christa, who is the only other black survivor Lee meets (although to be fair, it could just be because of something else, like her pregnancy, her distrust, or Lee and Clem somehow interacting in a non-familial way).

    as for Jane, I wasn't at all referring to arvo, but to Sarah and Jaime. she left her sister to die because Jaime had depression, and she assumed Sarah wanted to die too just because her ptsd was affecting her. she is very much like crawford in that she would let anyone who needs a little help in surviving be left to fend for themselves.

    and for what it's worth, I agree about lacking faith in telltale's ability to write romances of any sort. it seems they went this route in the past 3 or so games with little romantic chemistry between Batman and catwoman, Javier and Kate, and Jesse and Petra. but I have hope that they can pull it off this season (I sorely hope I'm not wrong or else I'm no longer a customer), and I do feel that we need some rectifying over the whole Gabentine shtick, so I figure why not do it gay? it couldn't possibly be worse than ANf, at least.

    Cherry-picking? These are actual facts, based on dialogue, character motivations, and the situations they were placed in. But fine, you poin

  • edited April 2018

    even if Larry wasn't antagonizing Lee over being black, he still called Lee 'boy' when addressing him, which is [racist] infantilization of a grown man. Larry could be just referring to Lee being younger than him, but he doesn't afford this to any other adults in the group even though he clearly shows distaste for anyone who's not Lilly or Clem.

    No real further thoughts here. I just wanted to compliment you for covering all three(?) bases/views on the matter here. :smile:

    with little romantic chemistry between Batman and catwoman,

    Well, that can't be a good sign.

    I do feel that we need some rectifying over the whole Gabentine shtick, so I figure why not do it gay?

    Is this A New Frontier or the Legend of Korra?
    Cause it's an easy mistake.

    okay, fair enough. with Lee, on top of Kenny's then-minor racism, he also put up with Larry's. even if Larry wasn't antagonizing Lee over

  • oof, don't get me started on all the things korra messed up on

    DabigRG posted: »

    even if Larry wasn't antagonizing Lee over being black, he still called Lee 'boy' when addressing him, which is [racist] infantilization of

  • Yeah it seems people are afraid of another romance because Telltale is not really good at this,i can understand but i'm not sure how they could possibly do worse than Gabe at this point.

    okay, fair enough. with Lee, on top of Kenny's then-minor racism, he also put up with Larry's. even if Larry wasn't antagonizing Lee over

  • edited April 2018

    You know what, please do. Let's have a tangent of actual interest.
    No offense to actual LGBT reps

    oof, don't get me started on all the things korra messed up on

  • i'm not sure how they could possibly do worse than Gabe at this point.

    Simple: Write an actual romance subplot that happens to suck/drag instead of just retconning in some flavor text(if you can call it that) to profit your audience's shallow hangups.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Yeah it seems people are afraid of another romance because Telltale is not really good at this,i can understand but i'm not sure how they could possibly do worse than Gabe at this point.

  • No offence. But why on earth would anyone want another Romance Plot in TFS. And way better, who would even want the choice to make Clem BI. Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality.

  • Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality.

    I think we just don't have anything else to talk about lol.
    And all of this started when they gave us the option with Javi to flirt with Jesus at the end of the game.
    (I actually hate that,it's so out of place i don't understand why they did this).

    LONEWOLF150 posted: »

    No offence. But why on earth would anyone want another Romance Plot in TFS. And way better, who would even want the choice to make Clem BI. Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality.

  • Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality.
    No: they've been at that low for a while.

    LONEWOLF150 posted: »

    No offence. But why on earth would anyone want another Romance Plot in TFS. And way better, who would even want the choice to make Clem BI. Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality.

  • (I actually hate that,it's so out of place i don't understand why they did this).

    To pander to the people who thought he was cool.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality. I think we just don't have anything else to talk about lol. And

  • I'll take that or her last name.

    DabigRG posted: »

    Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality. No: they've been at that low for a while.

  • The latter is objectively more important.

    I'll take that or her last name.

  • *is not

    they're both equal

    DabigRG posted: »

    The latter is objectively more important.

  • One is a basic reflection of background, the other is a political uproar waiting to happen.

    they're both equal

    Tell that to the Asians.

    *is not they're both equal

  • DeltinoDeltino Moderator
    edited April 2018

    (I actually hate that,it's so out of place i don't understand why they did this).

    I imagine it's mainly because of the comic. Jesus being gay is relatively common knowledge as far as the comics are concerned. Someone probably felt that adding a scene like that would have been a humorous little moment. I truly get the impression that it was intended as an innocent joke, nothing more. Not Telltale trying to make a statement, or trying to be progressive, or anything like that, just poking some fun at the comic readers and/or people familiar with the character of Jesus.

    But I'll be honest here; if there's one thing the internet has taught me, it's that people have a knack for blowing things way out of proportion, or twisting something innocent into a problem. People misinterpret things way more than they care to admit. Hell, I admit that I'm guilty of it.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Has the fanbase gone that low that they need to know her sexuality. I think we just don't have anything else to talk about lol. And

This discussion has been closed.