The Prescott connection and history is definitely I wanna work in and expand upon in the next episode, something the real deal unfortunately neglected to do.
I honestly forgot about Christa, though. I'll have to make a note of that as well.
Really, I'm looking notes on how to effectively characterize and to a lesser extent, utilize ANF!Clementine. So if you got any more thoughts on that, this thread is still a thing for that type of...thing.
Seeing how she survived on her own...how did she go about scavenging? What was her relationship with Prescott like? What were the 16 months with Christa like?
That's okay, this thread has unfortunately been a little too vague/complicated for most people to comprehensively contribute to, even if I keep stubbornly finding uses for it.
strength of character...
Not quite what I was going for, but this is a good post nonetheless.
consider that when Ben told Lee it was his fault...someone like Kenny would have thrown him off. Lee's strength of character comes from learning the hard way what letting your emotions run free does. He went down that path and killed a senator...he learned and used the lesson to maintain control.
Words of Wisdom and Understanding, bebe
And we love 'im for it.
Kenny never had this strength....in many ways Kenny is the weakest character in the series when it comes to personal control and the strength to fight your worst nature.
Eh, somewhat. There are characters like Carver, Nate, and especially Badger who exceed(?) him in this regard.
Oh boy, can't wait for Old Man dan to see this and start a long-winded, constant argument--may Vince Mcmahon be wise!
Lee never let his fear get in the way of his goal to save Clem...he walked into a herd and faced the stranger...all for a little girl that was not his.
To be fair, that was kinda the point of Kenny being a main character.
Another one with strength...Christa...she lost her husband...and then lost her baby....yet she carried on because she had Clem to watch over. Christa was emotionally dead inside when we saw her after the 16 months...but she carried on because she had an obligation...that is strength of character.
Sorry for being late to this...strength of character...consider that when Ben told Lee it was his fault...someone like Kenny would have thro… morewn him off. Lee's strength of character comes from learning the hard way what letting your emotions run free does. He went down that path and killed a senator...he learned and used the lesson to maintain control.
Kenny never had this strength....in many ways Kenny is the weakest character in the series when it comes to personal control and the strength to fight your worst nature.
Lee never let his fear get in the way of his goal to save Clem...he walked into a herd and faced the stranger...all for a little girl that was not his.
Another one with strength...Christa...she lost her husband...and then lost her baby....yet she carried on because she had Clem to watch over. Christa was emotionally dead inside when we saw her after the 16 months...but she carried on because she had an obligation...that is strength of character.
Okay, this is a discourse bomb waiting to happen, so it might as well happen here: How you think Kenny would've fared and/or been received/viewed if the Wellington ending wasn't a thing?
“Conveying Characterization” is close enough for me there's probably a more relevant thread for this, but I'm too lazy to keep searching so here we go. @SargeantMario101 you wanted me to counter your claims.
Let’s see here…
All three of them are prismatic, just as you said.
I believe you meant pragmatic. (Likely the crime of auTo-coRReCt anyways back to the discussion)
It only makes sense for people to be pragmatic in the apocalypse, being pragmatic yourself or being surrounded by pragmatic people is what keeps you alive. How does this make them the same person? Pretty much everyone who survives in the apocalypse survives because they have were or have become pragmatic. Molly, Jane, and Ava are only a small fraction of the pragmatic characters in this series. Lee(determinant), Clementine(determinant), Chuck, Carley(well except for the whole battery dilemma), Doug(wasn’t much of a fighter but he was pragmatic in other ways.), Kate, Christa, Javier(determinant), Pete, etc. the list goes on and on… There are plenty of characters I have missed.
All three of them have dead sisters.
There are millions of Americans who have sisters. If a global disaster was to occur much of the remaining people in America are bound to have dead sisters. If having a dead younger sister means they are clones of each other that must mean almost all of the survivors in this franchise are nothing but clones of each other.
All three of them have a fetish for Clementine
So does Lee, Sarah, Kenny, Luke, Christa, Omid, and Gabe. That must mean Molly, Lee, Sarah, Kenny, Christa, Omid, Gabe, Luke, Jane, and Ava are the same person! Just because certain people all take a liking to someone it does not mean they are the same person.
Molly & Jane both end up leaving the group at the end of episode 4
Can’t argue with the fact that they both leave at the end of episode 4, but the fact that Jane comes back in episode 5 whether you consider it bad writing or not shows that Telltale took a different direction with Molly and Jane.
Also as a bonus, Jane at one point uses the exact same combat animation that Molly uses to take out a walker.
That doesn’t mean shit. Numerous gaming companies reuse animations all of the time. Telltale has been reusing facial animations, body movement animations, combat animations, etc. since season 1.
I shouldn’t have even started this argument in the first place. Usually by now people’s opinions are set in stone but I figured I might as well finish what I started. I’m not trying to make you like or hate these characters in anyway but saying that they are all clones of each other is just not true. My writing likely came across as blunt and rude but that was not my intention. I’m sorry if I have offended you.
Jesus fucking christ... where do I even begin with this?
First off, yes, in a outbreak like the one in The Walking Dead universe, plenty of people would be pragmatic, and plenty of Americans have sisters. Here's the thing though, this is a story we're talking about. These are characters. And when you give characters several, very specific, similar traits, it makes the story feel rehashed, oversaturated, redundant, etc. A good example of the former is Alvin & Rebecca. I'm sure we can all agree that they're more or less replacements for Omid & Christa. This is the problem that Jane & Ava have (especially the former).
The statement about bad writing with Jane returning is a whole different argument. That I'm not gonna bother with, unless you really want to.
I should have mentioned this in my original post, but oh well. Admittedly, while Amid the Ruins did have a garbage truck load of reused animations, (even ones outside of TWD, looking at you Bigby Clementine), you mean to tell me that out of all the animations that they could have recycled for Jane, that they, by pure coincidence, had her use the one that Molly preformed ONE TIME, as opposed to all the other possible animations? Yeah, I don't think so.
“Conveying Characterization” is close enough for me there's probably a more relevant thread for this, but I'm too lazy to keep searching so … morehere we go. @SargeantMario101 you wanted me to counter your claims.
Let’s see here…
All three of them are prismatic, just as you said.
I believe you meant pragmatic. (Likely the crime of auTo-coRReCt anyways back to the discussion)
It only makes sense for people to be pragmatic in the apocalypse, being pragmatic yourself or being surrounded by pragmatic people is what keeps you alive. How does this make them the same person? Pretty much everyone who survives in the apocalypse survives because they have were or have become pragmatic. Molly, Jane, and Ava are only a small fraction of the pragmatic characters in this series. Lee(determinant), Clementine(determinant), Chuck, Carley(well except for the whole battery dilemma), Doug(wasn’t much of a fighter but he was pragmatic in other ways.)… [view original content]
“Conveying Characterization” is close enough for me there's probably a more relevant thread for this, but I'm too lazy to keep searching so here we go.
Oh, you're more than welcome to do so, dude. This is the kind of conversations I wished this thread would've kicked off more of in it's major revamp.
“Conveying Characterization” is close enough for me there's probably a more relevant thread for this, but I'm too lazy to keep searching so … morehere we go. @SargeantMario101 you wanted me to counter your claims.
Let’s see here…
All three of them are prismatic, just as you said.
I believe you meant pragmatic. (Likely the crime of auTo-coRReCt anyways back to the discussion)
It only makes sense for people to be pragmatic in the apocalypse, being pragmatic yourself or being surrounded by pragmatic people is what keeps you alive. How does this make them the same person? Pretty much everyone who survives in the apocalypse survives because they have were or have become pragmatic. Molly, Jane, and Ava are only a small fraction of the pragmatic characters in this series. Lee(determinant), Clementine(determinant), Chuck, Carley(well except for the whole battery dilemma), Doug(wasn’t much of a fighter but he was pragmatic in other ways.)… [view original content]
Here's the thing though, this is a story we're talking about. These are characters. And when you give characters several, very specific, similar traits, it makes the story feel rehashed, oversaturated, redundant, etc.
In a sequel you are bound to run into characters with similar characteristics. If you have the mindset of, “If they possess several similar characteristics then that must mean they are the same character!” you should probably steer clear of sequels because you will only get disappointed. The same can be said for Ben and Sarah. They both see a friend in Clementine, they both rely on others to protect them, they both make stupid decisions and mistakes, they aren’t very logical or practical, they are both a lesser youth character, and they often unintentionally put themselves and the group in danger.
A good example of the former is Alvin & Rebecca. I'm sure we can all agree that they're more or less replacements for Omid & Christa.
You think Alvin and Rebecca are remakes of Christa and Omid? Hmmm they are both a couple where the woman is an ornery pregnant lady and the man tends to be a more trusting and nice person. MmmHmm yeah, that means they are clones of each other.
Admittedly, while Amid the Ruins did have a garbage truck load of reused animations, (even ones outside of TWD, looking at you Bigby Clementine),
So you’re saying that Clementine and Bigby Wolf are the same character now?
you mean to tell me that out of all the animations that they could have recycled for Jane, that they, by pure coincidence, had her use the one that Molly preformed ONE TIME, as opposed to all the other possible animations? Yeah, I don't think so.
Hmmm in season 1 episode 1 for Kenny they reused a single axe swing animation that had previously only been used by Lee. You’re totally right! Kenny is must be Lee 2.0 because he used a single animation because they used the same animation! Wow we are so good at noticing 2.0 characters! Molly and Jane are both athletic women who are good at stabbing walkers having similar movements makes sense. Look at the Olympics for example often women performing the same event use the same movements and techniques. So, does that mean Olympians are all carbon copies of each other? Telltale isn’t the only gaming company that reuses animations from other games, other companies do it all of the time.
We could easily go on and on but I doubt we will ever see eye to eye perhaps it is best to agree to disagree. Too da loo!
Jesus fucking christ... where do I even begin with this?
First off, yes, in a outbreak like the one in The Walking Dead universe, plenty … moreof people would be pragmatic, and plenty of Americans have sisters. Here's the thing though, this is a story we're talking about. These are characters. And when you give characters several, very specific, similar traits, it makes the story feel rehashed, oversaturated, redundant, etc. A good example of the former is Alvin & Rebecca. I'm sure we can all agree that they're more or less replacements for Omid & Christa. This is the problem that Jane & Ava have (especially the former).
The statement about bad writing with Jane returning is a whole different argument. That I'm not gonna bother with, unless you really want to.
I should have mentioned this in my original post, but oh well. Admittedly, while Amid the Ruins did have a garbage truck load of reused animations, (even ones outside of … [view original content]
Okay, this is a discourse bomb waiting to happen, so it might as well happen here: How you think Kenny would've fared and/or been received/viewed if the Wellington ending wasn't a thing?
I would assume that there would have been a story of a place like Wellington....I can think of a few scenarios that would have been interesting and outcomes.
They find the cold dead remains of Wellington, a town that has been over run. Kenny is a man who has to have a plan he can believe in...usually it is one he comes up with and damn any one else and their ideas. Just like when in season 1 they found no boats in Savanna I think Kenny would spiral down into self pity and need Clem to try and pull him out of it. It could be that his anger about the situation forces her to leave him. The outcome would be that Kenny has learned nothing and is a broken man.
There is no Wellington...but Kenny force marches them looking for it, not listening to anyone who says there is no such thing. Clem may suggest that they need to head south and look for shelter elsewhere...he may use AJ's frailty against Clem to keep her going....eventually the choice would be...do you continue on this death march or leave Kenny? Would that be an act of betrayal that Kenny would not forgive. The player would want to take AJ...and Kenny would not want that...This ends in blood.
Kenny's greatest weakness is his inability to work with others on anything other than what he wants...he is not a team player and any sane group would have kicked him out or killed him.
I would assume that there would have been a story of a place like Wellington....I can think of a few scenarios that would have been interest… moreing and outcomes.
* They find the cold dead remains of Wellington, a town that has been over run. Kenny is a man who has to have a plan he can believe in...usually it is one he comes up with and damn any one else and their ideas. Just like when in season 1 they found no boats in Savanna I think Kenny would spiral down into self pity and need Clem to try and pull him out of it. It could be that his anger about the situation forces her to leave him. The outcome would be that Kenny has learned nothing and is a broken man.
* There is no Wellington...but Kenny force marches them looking for it, not listening to anyone who says there is no such thing. Clem may suggest that they need to head south and look for shelter elsewhere...he may use AJ's frailty against Clem to keep her going....eventually the… [view original content]
The interesting thing about the history of Wellington is that known from this locality through rumors, told by other survivors. But at no point in the game do we stumble with other survivors, which in a way is kind of boring ..
The interesting thing about the history of Wellington is that known from this locality through rumors, told by other survivors. But at no point in the game do we stumble with other survivors, which in a way is kind of boring ..
Comments
The Prescott connection and history is definitely I wanna work in and expand upon in the next episode, something the real deal unfortunately neglected to do.
I honestly forgot about Christa, though. I'll have to make a note of that as well.
Really, I'm looking notes on how to effectively characterize and to a lesser extent, utilize ANF!Clementine. So if you got any more thoughts on that, this thread is still a thing for that type of...thing.
Thanks!
That's okay, this thread has unfortunately been a little too vague/complicated for most people to comprehensively contribute to, even if I keep stubbornly finding uses for it.
Not quite what I was going for, but this is a good post nonetheless.
Words of Wisdom and Understanding, bebe
And we love 'im for it.
Eh, somewhat. There are characters like Carver, Nate, and especially Badger who exceed(?) him in this regard.
Oh boy, can't wait for Old Man dan to see this and start a long-winded, constant argument--may Vince Mcmahon be wise!
To be fair, that was kinda the point of Kenny being a main character.
True day.
Okay, this is a discourse bomb waiting to happen, so it might as well happen here: How you think Kenny would've fared and/or been received/viewed if the Wellington ending wasn't a thing?
“Conveying Characterization” is close enough for me there's probably a more relevant thread for this, but I'm too lazy to keep searching so here we go. @SargeantMario101 you wanted me to counter your claims.
Let’s see here…
I believe you meant pragmatic. (Likely the crime of auTo-coRReCt anyways back to the discussion)
It only makes sense for people to be pragmatic in the apocalypse, being pragmatic yourself or being surrounded by pragmatic people is what keeps you alive. How does this make them the same person? Pretty much everyone who survives in the apocalypse survives because they have were or have become pragmatic. Molly, Jane, and Ava are only a small fraction of the pragmatic characters in this series. Lee(determinant), Clementine(determinant), Chuck, Carley(well except for the whole battery dilemma), Doug(wasn’t much of a fighter but he was pragmatic in other ways.), Kate, Christa, Javier(determinant), Pete, etc. the list goes on and on… There are plenty of characters I have missed.
There are millions of Americans who have sisters. If a global disaster was to occur much of the remaining people in America are bound to have dead sisters. If having a dead younger sister means they are clones of each other that must mean almost all of the survivors in this franchise are nothing but clones of each other.
So does Lee, Sarah, Kenny, Luke, Christa, Omid, and Gabe. That must mean Molly, Lee, Sarah, Kenny, Christa, Omid, Gabe, Luke, Jane, and Ava are the same person! Just because certain people all take a liking to someone it does not mean they are the same person.
Can’t argue with the fact that they both leave at the end of episode 4, but the fact that Jane comes back in episode 5 whether you consider it bad writing or not shows that Telltale took a different direction with Molly and Jane.
That doesn’t mean shit. Numerous gaming companies reuse animations all of the time. Telltale has been reusing facial animations, body movement animations, combat animations, etc. since season 1.
I shouldn’t have even started this argument in the first place. Usually by now people’s opinions are set in stone but I figured I might as well finish what I started. I’m not trying to make you like or hate these characters in anyway but saying that they are all clones of each other is just not true. My writing likely came across as blunt and rude but that was not my intention. I’m sorry if I have offended you.
Jesus fucking christ... where do I even begin with this?
First off, yes, in a outbreak like the one in The Walking Dead universe, plenty of people would be pragmatic, and plenty of Americans have sisters. Here's the thing though, this is a story we're talking about. These are characters. And when you give characters several, very specific, similar traits, it makes the story feel rehashed, oversaturated, redundant, etc. A good example of the former is Alvin & Rebecca. I'm sure we can all agree that they're more or less replacements for Omid & Christa. This is the problem that Jane & Ava have (especially the former).
The statement about bad writing with Jane returning is a whole different argument. That I'm not gonna bother with, unless you really want to.
I should have mentioned this in my original post, but oh well. Admittedly, while Amid the Ruins did have a garbage truck load of reused animations, (even ones outside of TWD, looking at you Bigby Clementine), you mean to tell me that out of all the animations that they could have recycled for Jane, that they, by pure coincidence, had her use the one that Molly preformed ONE TIME, as opposed to all the other possible animations? Yeah, I don't think so.
Oh, you're more than welcome to do so, dude. This is the kind of conversations I wished this thread would've kicked off more of in it's major revamp.
In a sequel you are bound to run into characters with similar characteristics. If you have the mindset of, “If they possess several similar characteristics then that must mean they are the same character!” you should probably steer clear of sequels because you will only get disappointed. The same can be said for Ben and Sarah. They both see a friend in Clementine, they both rely on others to protect them, they both make stupid decisions and mistakes, they aren’t very logical or practical, they are both a lesser youth character, and they often unintentionally put themselves and the group in danger.
You think Alvin and Rebecca are remakes of Christa and Omid? Hmmm they are both a couple where the woman is an ornery pregnant lady and the man tends to be a more trusting and nice person. MmmHmm yeah, that means they are clones of each other.
So you’re saying that Clementine and Bigby Wolf are the same character now?
Hmmm in season 1 episode 1 for Kenny they reused a single axe swing animation that had previously only been used by Lee. You’re totally right! Kenny is must be Lee 2.0 because he used a single animation because they used the same animation! Wow we are so good at noticing 2.0 characters! Molly and Jane are both athletic women who are good at stabbing walkers having similar movements makes sense. Look at the Olympics for example often women performing the same event use the same movements and techniques. So, does that mean Olympians are all carbon copies of each other? Telltale isn’t the only gaming company that reuses animations from other games, other companies do it all of the time.
We could easily go on and on but I doubt we will ever see eye to eye perhaps it is best to agree to disagree. Too da loo!
Not sure I understand sweetness....do you mean if Wellington had let him in or if there was no Wellington in the game?
(Are you The Greedy or did you just forget a comma there...?)
If there was no Wellington ending or overly happy ending.
I would assume that there would have been a story of a place like Wellington....I can think of a few scenarios that would have been interesting and outcomes.
Kenny's greatest weakness is his inability to work with others on anything other than what he wants...he is not a team player and any sane group would have kicked him out or killed him.
I think that the Wellington ending is one of the best scenes in season 2 but the two scenarios you described could have also been interesting.
The interesting thing about the history of Wellington is that known from this locality through rumors, told by other survivors. But at no point in the game do we stumble with other survivors, which in a way is kind of boring ..
Yeah, that's a serious blank space with what is sometimes called the end goal the Season was supposedly building to.
With that said, this is also an area where the Russians were wasted if you think about it.