About Conrad. Also I don't think he deserved to die.
I'm sorry for making this thread but I think some of the reasons that some people shot Conrad are a bit off. To start, Conrad isn't as bad as Joan, Badger, Carver, Max, or Lonnie. It does bother me and I wonder why most people who shot Conrad spared Max. I mean seriously? Conrad did threaten Clem and point a gun to Gabe's head but he apologizes later on. But that's nothing compared to what Max did considering Max raided and looted (possibly killing men,women, and children in the process). It's like "hey I killed Conrad because he threatened my daughter and pointed a gun at my nephew, but I decide to spare Max even though he raided, looted, and killed people in communities and settlements." One of the biggest reasons that people shot Conrad is because they didn't want to hurt Clem's feelings (because shes like a daughter to alot of people) and they didn't want to betray her trust. But the thing is, by shooting Conrad, you might have made things worse, not just for Javier, but possibly fucking things up for his family and the rest of the group. Not only do you lose a member of the group, but also a survivor of Prescott. Also by shooting him, Clem leaves you and Gabe to tell Tripp what happened to Conrad. You don't lose Clem's trust, she still helps you as if your a good friend to her. And also David is the leader so nothing bad would happen to her or anyone in the group. Even if she doesn't trust you, you keep Tripp's trust. So on one hand it would be her trust vs Tripp's trust. Even though we know Tripp gets mad and loses his trust in Javier I find it weird that in the next episode he forgives him. Sadly Clementine doesn't forgive you for not shooting Conrad which annoys me considering the fact that she herself was able to forgive Nick in S2 for almost killing her twice because Nick did it for protecting the group and for self defense. Conrad himself said that he would use Clem to get into Richmond faster for the group, give medical help for Kate, and it's clear he had a bad day after Francine died. So why the hell would Clem still be mad at Javier and Conrad? They did it for a purpose. Hell she forgave David for taking away AJ because he tried to do it for a good cause. Also the fact that Conrad redeems himself through episodes 3-5 and Clem is still mad at Javier for using her as trade. She should've been glad that Conrad is alive and that he was helping Javier and his family in Richmond ( and the fact that he stayed and helped Javier with his family to rebuild and change Richmond in the end of episode 5). Lets face it, Conrad is the best determinant character Telltale has created in TWDG franchise. Even if he doesn't appear that much ( I don't know how hard it is for Telltale to keep a determinant character alive until the end that most people killed), he still did alot more appeared more then any other determinant character in TWDG franchise. Another thing I wanted to mention. Conrad does leave the group in Episode 4 by "sitting it out" but in my opinion it was the right thing. If Conrad had stayed with the group, he would've been caught by Joan's people along with Tripp and Ava. I'm glad telltale had him show up later in the end so nothing would happen to him. Something else that annoys me. I've seen many Youtubers, Twitch users, and Mixer streamers who spared Conrad get alot of hate with people complaining that they accepted the plan and treat Clem like trash. It's still ridiculous how some people still don't know that he can live to the very end and say that he dies either way. Anyways that's my post. What do you guys think? Agree or disagree and why?
Comments
I agree he should be kept alive and i regret shooting him now but just to point out, my clem never forgave David, the wellington ending has her angry at david in episode 5 and doesnt forgive him
Most people killed him because they love Clementine,and i think that's extremely stupid even if you love Clem (the majority,not everyone i know there's people who have their reasons).
Some people say Telltale kept him alive only to prove people wrong because everyone thought he was gonna die in the next episodes i'm not sure if that's true.
There's also that scene if you let the time run out Conrad shoot Javi and Gabe,i remember someone from the staff saying that they regret doing that.
But yeah i love what they did with him,the only thing i didn't like is how he disappeared in episode 5 but other than that he had so many great moments.
Best scene from a New Frontier for me
Badger : "What ain't got the guts to kill another man ?"
Conrad : "No you're not a man,you're nothing".
Conrad basically dies after ep3 even if you keep him alive. He barely talks and adds nothing to the story. Personally I think Ben is the best determinant character telltale has created. He actually adds to the story and him being there changes the characters around him (Example: giving Kenny his redemption arc). After ep3, Conrad just comes in and does nothing why’ll you save his ass in a QTE.
Do you know how hard it is to keep a determinant character alive for a whole season? Cause I don't. Especially a character that not that many people saved (hell Conrad got more scenes as a determinant than Lingard did). Maybe it's not that Conrad doesn't have many scenes, it could be that ANF was the shortest season.
After you save Ben, he was only alive for the first half of episode five. He was good but I think he should have been alive a bit longer.
Yeah so does Conrad. You get different scenes and dialogue with Javier, Tripp, Gabe, and Elenoar.
Did you not play episode 4 with him alive? Telltale didn't put him in most scenes probably because they wanted to keep him alive. That's probably why they had him backout on the group so that he wouldn't get caught by Joan's people. And Conrad did kill that one guy with the AK47 that Javier was fighting with. As much as I liked Ben, I do appreciate what Conrad has done and what Telltale did with him. That's why I like Conrad more. He actually gets to be alive and helps Javier and his family rebuild Richmond.
You know I expected Clem to be loyal to Javier, but she leaves the whole group to face the New Frontier without her. For me it's like she left ditched Javier and the group to protect herself. It's funny because I find the relationship between Javier and Clem almost to be like the relationship Javier had with David. Clem "He may be playing nice, but I'd still watch your back." David fucks up the deal in episode 4. David: Javier, How did you get stuck with Clementine? She's trouble." Clementine kills Eli and expects Javier to defend her. Sorry if this is off topic with what your saying but your comment just made me think about this.
Conrad the savage.
There's also one thing which annoyed me is how Conrad treat Clem like shit in episode 2 if you make the deal and they never talk about this again it's disappointing.
And yeah the game expect you to side with Clementine all the time which is not a good thing at all,everyone is gonna side with Clem because "oh my god look at her she's badass".
I killed Conrad but I also killed Max. It blows my mind that people wanted to spare him just because he is slightly more even-tempered than Badger. Max started the whole bullshit situation by harassing Javier even if you tried giving the gas back to him. He had been raiding and looting and deserved to die just as much as Badger and Lonnie.
I agree he's an asshole who did kinda start it all yet he blames Javier for all the lives lost. Then he says he tried to get Badger to stop raiding Prescott. But since I'm one of the people who don't believe in killing people in an apocalypse I spared him. I do wish though that there was a choice after you spare him to kill him or at least kick him in the balls but there wasn't
My only guess is that Conrad apologizes to Clem offscreen when they are in quarantine but yeah it does suck that we don't get the scene.
I actually didn't side with Clem on ANF on my first run. I didn't defend her for shooting Eli, I accepted the plan, I let David in, and I refused to kill Lingard. But she still thinks Javi makes the right call. While I'm happy that she still trusts him, it does feel kinda weird that she doesn't mention me not siding with her when she shot Eli.
A mite late to dee game, aren't you lad/lass?
I was among the few who sided with Conrad originally for a number of reasons. On top of just generally making the group dynamics and overall conflict more interesting, he was the primary thing making ANF!Clementine more tolerable. Thus, while I liked and appreciated what the rest of his character arc entailed, I also saw their vitriol's disappearance as one of the few disappointments with Above the Law.
To be fair, I can understand why some others would choose to shoot him. And I also still think that what happens if the timer runs out was a step too far.
I should probably state that I also spared and legitimately liked Max, in large part because he was essentially the New Frontier's answer to Conrad in Part 2 morality-wise. While his involvement in the backdoor raids was something of a surprise(albeit one that gave a previous line more context), the whole situation added up well enough in my head that I saw another reason to accept his offer to come clean. His history and/or friendship with Clementine and David was another neat little facet that I wouldn't have minded seeing more expounding on. Shame he disappeared from the plot during the direction shift despite his major role.
Conrad survived all the way to the end in my game, still amazed by that.
No matter how extremely flawed most of these arguments are, there’s no arguing against fan logic cos they’ll keep firing back despite you making better points than they are, so it’s best just letting them do their own thing. But yeah, killing Conrad but letting Joan and Max live just because it’s Clem is kinda stupid if you ask me.
Did he deserve to die? Probably not. Did it feel wrong to shoot him in the head? No. Even if I knew how things could have turned out, I'd still shoot him. I think it was the right thing to do.
I would still shoot him because I would not let anyone point a gun to people I care about. I think Conrad is the most overrated determinant character, is he the best because he survived through the entire season? The only time he was useful was in Episode 3, other than that, he did absolutely nothing, he got lazy development in the last 2 episodes, just less screentime, the only reason Telltale kept him alive is because they wanted to avoid that backlash they have been getting since TWD Season 2.
What's worse is that they kept a determinant character who was killed by a lot of players alive and not the ones who deserved a chance like Sarah, Nick, Kenny and Jane.
What to expect a game treated like shit?
Uh, you wanna rephrase that a bit?
To be fair, she and Conrad seemingly never really liked each other anyway and probably just amended things their own way offscreen. Or not.
And Javier was ultimately the one to approve/make the choice to take her captive.
In real life, if I was a good shot, and someone is holding my nephew at gunpoint, he' going down, I don't care if he deserves it or not. So, in Javier's shoes, I would totally put a bullet through his skull. And I did. Nobody touches my family. As for Max, I wanted to kill him too, but he had some dirt on Joan, and I couldn't just let this valuable information die (even though it still amounted to nothing xD).
Agreed with everything you said. I didn't spare Max because I forgave him, but because I was hoping he would incriminate Joan. It's just smart to have a witness on your side.
Although I was biased because I liked Max's character, but from a logical standpoint, I think he needs to be spared just for his evidence alone.
Actually, he does more or less act as a skip and/or failsafe for two QTEs in Thicker than Water, where he saves Javier.
He also essentially sums up his arc and the determinate consequence(s) of the finale when he shows up near the end.
Honestly, I wish it stayed that way, for the most part.
To be fair, he was paranoid about an earlier encounter with another group and unfortunately, Javier gave him reason to suspect he was at least something similar.
Technically, Javier was in a position where he got mixed up with a previous encounter they had and ended up attacking Lonnie. Which, combined with determinately shooting Rufus and having to [let Clementine][help] fight back against Badger's personal stakeout, made him seem guilty of instigating most of the stuff that went wrong afterwards.
Which he did. Unfortunately, Badger and his crew was bent on not only raiding the settlement, but destroying it entirely just to get to get back at Javier.
David pistol whips him after the deal is accepted, giving him a black eye as a result.
Yeah, I actually quite liked their interactions for what it's worth.
With that said, I don't think amending things was in either of their interests at the time and by extension, any resolution would've came sometime after they got kicked out by the Council Guard.
Same here. Not always because i was actively siding with her, but it certainly didn't bother me much as time went on.
Kinda get the idea Telltale would rather people forget that situation, despite it's inherent purpose.
To be somewhat fair, there were immediately clear benefits to not killing those two compared to Conrad, who kinda had the odds more than stacked against him.