Here's a question that was brought to mind earlier today: Which Season 1 character is THE one most people wish got more screentime, development, focus, etc.? Or, if you believe it's a considerably close poll, name the ones you see/believe get the most wishful thought.
Feel free to elaborate as to what is often/sometimes/occasionally cited as an area for their character to be showcased and/or what you think could've been done! Same goes for anything around or outside of the character(s)!
(And Lee doesn't count. Clementine and especially Kenny are also invalid for obvious reasons.)
One potential sentiment I feel like the released version of ANF missed out on is the idea that Gabe more or less adopted Marianna as his [honorary] sister after Hector turned, given that the latter wasn't even a Garcia originally.
.
Also, I kinda feel like she could've/should've been Kate's daughter from a previous encounter and thus Gabe's step-sister, particularly since I initially thought that was the case given the slight resemblance between the two.
(Not bothering with a pic since it wouldn't make any sense.)
Javier's Mastery of the Language
As you know, Javier's voice actor [in the final product] Jeff Schine is a white guy. This in part made it a bit noticeable to some that Javier didn't adequate speak fluent Spanish, even pronouncing Gabriel(and apparently Marianna)'s name as an average American would as opposed the Hispanic pronunciation. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrained in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time. With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or really relating with one of his family members. Would've been an interesting way to show off the duality of Javier the Wisecracking Baseball Player and Javier the Accommodating Family Man.
(Not bothering with a pic since it wouldn't make any sense.)
Javier's Mastery of the Language
As you know, Javier's voice actor [in the … morefinal product] Jeff Schine is a white guy. This in part made it a bit noticeable to some that Javier didn't adequate speak fluent Spanish, even pronouncing Gabriel(and apparently Marianna)'s name as an average American would as opposed the Hispanic pronunciation. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrained in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time. With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or… [view original content]
Here's a question that was brought to mind earlier today: Which Season 1 character is THE one most people wish got more screentime, developm… moreent, focus, etc.? Or, if you believe it's a considerably close poll, name the ones you see/believe get the most wishful thought.
Feel free to elaborate as to what is often/sometimes/occasionally cited as an area for their character to be showcased and/or what you think could've been done! Same goes for anything around or outside of the character(s)!
(And Lee doesn't count. Clementine and especially Kenny are also invalid for obvious reasons.)
Eh, I guess that'd make sense. Carley is apparently just an Expy of a Dead Rising character, while Doug is based on a friend of one of the develops.
Plus, the whole shipteasing biz didn't happen until Long Road Ahead (aka the episode where she gets herself killed)as one of that episode's bits of fanservice.
Btw, sorry it took so long to respond; I thought I did until I looked through my drafts.
Eh, I guess that'd make sense. Carley is apparently just an Expy of a Dead Rising character, while Doug is based on a friend of one of the d… moreevelops.
Plus, the whole shipteasing biz didn't happen until Long Road Ahead (aka the episode where she gets herself killed)as one of that episode's bits of fanservice.
Btw, sorry it took so long to respond; I thought I did until I looked through my drafts.
I personally think that Carley kissing Lee on the cheek was kind of forced... maybe it's just me.
Have you read the article about why more people saved Carley? It was interesting.
It's okay.
Okay, that is the right answer to that question: they simply gave Carley far more spotlight, relevance, and incentive compared to poor Doug, who had one major scene cut.
Here's a question that was brought to mind earlier today: Which Season 1 character is THE one most people wish got more screentime, developm… moreent, focus, etc.? Or, if you believe it's a considerably close poll, name the ones you see/believe get the most wishful thought.
Feel free to elaborate as to what is often/sometimes/occasionally cited as an area for their character to be showcased and/or what you think could've been done! Same goes for anything around or outside of the character(s)!
(And Lee doesn't count. Clementine and especially Kenny are also invalid for obvious reasons.)
Hello! I see you're not @Fangirl101 and yet you bumped my thread before I did. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all, it's just pretty unexpected.
Yeah, I probably should've expected Chuck would be one of first answers.
Late to this, probably already been mentioned, too but...
David. I liked him, (at least in his good, calm moments). But I think he did not get the character love he deserved. Ended up being painted as a crazy husband in the end.
I was hoping we'd be able to avoid the whole forced Love Triangle drama by the end of S3, but I guess not. How I saw Episode 5 was the possibility of David being redeemed, or at the very least being useful in his own element. It was clear that he's not the best at handling family matters (abandoning his family after being called to war, and to return not looking for them; still treating Gabe and Kate like shit after welcoming them back in), and managed to make the most for himself in the apocalypse. I thought we'd be able to see him be useful and very helpful for a change. Make Javi find a new reason to like his brother, and also for David to find a way he can provide for his family and actually, really, completely protect them for once.
His whole speech on the roof of EP5: "When I look out there, I see a sniper tower, a trench, etc." was pretty profound, and gave insight into who he was, and how he is able to lead and give something to the world. He also mentions his need to change, as it's "the one war I could never win." This would have been his time to prove himself, and to do some real good not just for his family, but for the good of the whole town.
I expected him to round up the survivors, lead them into battle, and manage to fortify Richmond from the horde. It would have been a great climactic moment, and maybe one of the best for David.
Too bad we did our own thing and he got paranoid over a non-existent 3-year long affair.
Ooh, a full true contribution_!_ Let's see what we--
David.
Oh, the irony(?), considering the long post I've been sittin on for quite a while...
I was hoping we'd be able to avoid the whole forced Love Triangle drama by the end of S3, but I guess not.
There was a love triangle?
Ended up being painted as a crazy husband in the end.
Eh, I think abusive jackass and/or envious brother is the term you wanted to use there.
Cause honestly speaking, his marriage to Kate did not matter much at all.
How I saw Episode 5 was the possibility of David being redeemed, or at the very least being useful in his own element.
I can't believe I have to ask this in this case, but 'redeemed' of what?
still treating Gabe and Kate like shit after welcoming them back in
You think so? I thought he was [mostly] treating them pretty well, all things considered.
Up til From the Gallows at least.
It was clear that he's not the best at handling family matters (abandoning his family after being called to war, and to return not looking for them; ), and managed to make the most for himself in the apocalypse. I thought we'd be able to see him be useful and very helpful for a change.
To be fair, he seemed useful enough already.
His whole speech on the roof of EP5: "When I look out there, I see a sniper tower, a trench, etc." was pretty profound, and gave insight into who he was, and how he is able to lead and give something to the world. He also mentions his need to change, as it's "the one war I could never win." This would have been his time to prove himself, and to do some real good not just for his family, but for the good of the whole town.
Oh, is that what he said? Huh.
I honestly check'd out during that scene.
I expected him to round up the survivors, lead them into battle, and manage to fortify Richmond from the horde.
I expected Javier/Tripp, thatPaulGuy, and Ava/Max/Gabe to do that personally, but I guess that was still too much to expect.
Too bad we did our own thing and he got paranoid over a non-existent 3-year long affair.
Late to this, probably already been mentioned, too but...
David. I liked him, (at least in his good, calm moments). But I think he did not … moreget the character love he deserved. Ended up being painted as a crazy husband in the end.
I was hoping we'd be able to avoid the whole forced Love Triangle drama by the end of S3, but I guess not. How I saw Episode 5 was the possibility of David being redeemed, or at the very least being useful in his own element. It was clear that he's not the best at handling family matters (abandoning his family after being called to war, and to return not looking for them; still treating Gabe and Kate like shit after welcoming them back in), and managed to make the most for himself in the apocalypse. I thought we'd be able to see him be useful and very helpful for a change. Make Javi find a new reason to like his brother, and also for David to find a way he can provide for his family and actually, really, completel… [view original content]
Eh, I think abusive jackass and/or envious brother is the term you wanted to use there.
Cause honestly speaking, his marriage to Kate did not matter much at all.
Yeah, didn't know what to put there. He was just a huge jerk, in summary.
I can't believe I have to ask this in this case, but 'redeemed' of what?
"Redeemed" of the horrible treatment of his brother, his wife, and (in EP5 at least) Gabe. Maybe that wasn't the right word to use, but he would have been a big help in cleaning up Richmond, and that would have been great.
You think so? I thought he was [mostly] treating them pretty well, all things considered.
Up til From the Gallows at least.
Ehh, it's been a while since I've played ANF so I don't have all the specifics of David's relationship to others. The only moments that really stick out to me were when he was a huge jerk. (and yes, I'm counting flashbacks too.)
Kate didn't like to be around him, he mostly treated Javier like crap (blaming and lashing out at him). Didn't always give me good vibes.
May have been too late to post this, since my memory of him is kinda blurry. But, just pitching in my two cents. I know something felt kinda off about his whole story arc once I'd finished the season.
Ooh, a full true contribution_!_ Let's see what we--
David.
Oh, the irony(?), considering the long post I've been sittin on fo… morer quite a while...
I was hoping we'd be able to avoid the whole forced Love Triangle drama by the end of S3, but I guess not.
There was a love triangle?
Ended up being painted as a crazy husband in the end.
Eh, I think abusive jackass and/or envious brother is the term you wanted to use there.
Cause honestly speaking, his marriage to Kate did not matter much at all.
How I saw Episode 5 was the possibility of David being redeemed, or at the very least being useful in his own element.
I can't believe I have to ask this in this case, but 'redeemed' of what?
still treating Gabe and Kate like shit after welcoming them back in
You think so? I thought he was [mostly] treating them pretty well, all things considered.
Up til From the Gallows at least.
… [view original content]
I just saw this for the first time. I'm not even a big Kenny fan, but just thinking about the possibilities.
I know it would have been technically unfeasible to do so many different outcomes, but to think about it. Damn it, man...
I just saw this for the first time. I'm not even a big Kenny fan, but just thinking about the possibilities.
I know it would have been technically unfeasible to do so many different outcomes, but to think about it. Damn it, man...
Bumping this back for some long held off plans and encouraging more creative personal contributions.
For those who may have been confused about what can generally be done here:
What characters, plot points, locations, or smaller elements/traits of any of the three did you find interesting and think could've used more time, focus, and/or development in the story? And in what ways could that have been done?
Hey ya'll--DabigRG here! It’s been such a long time since I last did a proper entry, hasn’t it? Truth be told, I had another two or three planned, with one in particular that I’ve kinda been wanting to do having the data cannibalizing done and ready for cohesive drafting –but I just didn’t have the time and energy to dedicate to adequately posting it. So, for the sake of finally getting things going again, I’m officially postponing that in favor of something different. Someone easy to understand and get behind from a slightly cross-installment perspective—Edith!
---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----
Guard of a Failed Fantasy
(Btw, if someone could find me a place to get a good modelswap of ANF!Edith, that'd be frosty)
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It has been argued that the direction towards the goal of Season 2 is a journey to Wellington, Ohio –a place where there’s fresh lots of land and cold winters so the walkers get slow. Both Christa and Kenny were struggling to deal with their losses and grievances in trying to get Clementine and/or AJ to the place. And should she choose to stick by him even after the group falls apart and a deadly fight in the snow concludes with him killing Jane, Clementine and AJ can indeed make it to the big camp up near Michigan. There, awaiting at the front(?) gates was Gatekeeper Edith, whose job was is to access the survivor’s who reach the community and hand out supplies to those who can’t enter.
As fate would have it, Clementine, Alvin Jr., and Kenny would fall into the latter category, as the settlement was over capacity and there simply wasn’t enough room left inside, meaning she had to turn people away despite her disagreement with the policy. She would then be touched by the old dog’s pleas to at least take in the children, as they don’t require as much maintenance as an adult and deserve a place where they’ll meet new people and make friends—where they won’t have to sleep with a gun next to them every night and can be kids for a while. Edith eventually accepts to personally adopt them against orders that she will accept his pleas and should the girl agree to honor the trip Christa set her on, watches Clementine exchange a tearful goodbye and accept Kenny’s cap on the baby’s behalf before entering the gates opposite of his leaving with the bag of supplies and a refusal to look back.
Unfortunately, whether the two make it there and enter or not, it seems that this safe place for the two wouldn’t be safe for very long…. As time went on and things inevitably got harder in the post-apocalyptic world, Wellington’s strategy would get to a point where it was no longer feasible to uphold and they would have to prioritize the continued survival of their home over that of visitors and charity cases. This sudden cut off of desperately needed resources would seriously anger a number of local scavenging families who would band together in order to demand they be given the food necessary to support their families or they would have no choice to take the place by force. Edith’s fellow Gate Guard would inevitably fail to convince the families to leave and the settlement would become under deadly siege by the starving scavengers. Tragically, Edith would become a casualty of this attack, as she is shot through the back of the forehead while escaping to the trees with the children, forcing Clementine to uncover the thankfully unharmed AJ from Edith’s corpse and continue fleeing with him as a group of scavengers manage to nick her cheek with giving chase.
Considering how Wellington was established as a safe haven in the first episode of Season 2, it’s real shame that not only is the settlement itself is ultimately left unexplored, but that Edith herself doesn’t even survive long enough for her character to get some development. This is a woman who personally protected the community at the front gate for who knows how long and had to deal with the different orders she was given as she constantly met different travelers she either happily approved or sadly sent packin’, not to mention personally took responsibility for Clementine and Alvie when she was under strict orders not to let anyone else in. And despite her duties to the people and dwellings of Wellington, she would eventually become something of a nervous wreck and prioritize getting her two adopted wards to safety when the reality of all of her work blew up ingloriously. It also feels like a really weird missed opportunity that we should lose a character that was not only pretty much brand new and not bogged down by previous gameplay choices, but also do so in a story where the raiding of other settlements is a significant plot point driving the story.
Thus, the plot and cast could’ve been conveniently enhanced a bit by having Edith survive the fall of Wellington and meet/accompany Clementine during the two years between Season 2’s endings and her meeting with Javier. In addition to the obvious opportunities to learn about her life before the outbreak, chronicling her career afterwards, and exploring her bonds to Clementine and AJ, there would also be opportunities to explore what kind of regrets, struggles, and trauma may be plaguing her caring being from both before, during, and after the events leading to Wellington’s downfall.
In the scenario where Clementine actually does enter Wellington, perhaps we could get an extra flashback or two showing their interactions at a previous point, where we’d learn more about Edith herself, share stories about Clementine’s experiences with her, witness some of the family members’ earlier visits, and indications that there were increasingly less supplies she could afford to hand out, with Edith half-heartedly claiming that their public survival strategy would do them well in the end. And if we were lucky, we could’ve even gotten an encounter with the Leader she disobeyed for the kids’ sake, and even see some of the safe haven. Thus, the flashback in which the families scornfully raid the place could potentially be even longer, as Edith/Clementine could choose to aid a few people in getting to safety while Clementine/Edith gathers some things of either her own and/or of the other’s to take or console AJ a bit in his fear induced by the ransacking.
In the scenario where Clementine either refuses to enter the place or simply never sees it at all, perhaps Edith actually and either fails in barely surviving or, even worse, is forced to save herself(and maybe others) at the behest of a coworker or even her normally strict Leader. She could then meet Clementine further down the road and regretful inform her of what eventually happened to two of her friends’ intended destination for refuge.
Either way, perhaps she would eventually end up in Prescott, Virginia, where she would finally have a safe place to rest her head, deal with her regrets, and where she could maybe serve once again as a Gatekeeper in the events where Tripp has to take care of something. Assuming she’s able to handle the potentially stressful and even triggering sense of déjà vu the significantly rougher variant of the position could have, that is. Thus, Javier Clementine and/or Javier could offer her some compassion and absorption as they get recounts of all she had been through before, during, and after Wellington’ downfall when they meet with and interact with her. The many people she let in, befriended, and [mostly] lost within the community. The several survivors she had to turn away, possibly doom, or even fire on. How the government she was a part of chose to give out care packages out of the goodness of their hearts to those they couldn’t allow inside, believing people would appreciate such compensatory kindness and how they never thought that it would ultimately cause the settlement to have fire rained upon it. She could even act as a varying source of incite and commentary on Clementine’s current character when Javier walks around the town.
And of course, when Badger would give the unauthorized order to raid the western town, flood it with the New Frontier’s walker troops, and pretty much destroy the town itself completely, Edith would have to experience losing another community (and later nearly two) and perhaps would have to consider what actions/options should and shouldn’t be taken to ensure that such a travesty never has to be experienced again.
(PS. Sorry this took so many weeks to actually finish.)
(This is only here because I love this savefile-chapter-pics. The REAL image is below.)
Fittingly enough, Season 2's premiere episode All That Remains follows Clementine as she loses the only two guardians she has left to one of the more common, if opportunistic types of survivors in the outbreak--Scavengers! After accidentally costing Omid his life due to making herself vulnerable to just Junior Scavenger Michelle sixteen months prior, Clementine would have a solemn campfire broken up by Victor, "Ralph", and Winston, a trio of hungry Scavengers she finds holding Christa at gunpoint. Smelling their cooking weasel and inquiring as to where the rest of her group is, one or both of the females would do what they could to give the other an opening to escape--which in Clementine's case, meant throwing a rock right into the lancer's. Once Clementine's presence is the discovered, Winston would chase the girl through the woods while the other two stay behind to deal with Christa. Voicing his increasing frustration and making several attempts to wring her in by force, the deranged scavenger is finally killed near the fuckin river when his final attempt to tussle with Clementine fails and the two find themselves struggling to escape separate walkers. Clementine breaking free of her's gets him knocked over and pinned by a walker, killing the apparently not very tasty scavenger with a bite to the neck and allowing the girl to make an unintentional aquatic escape.
It is worth noting that there is fair a bit of both uncommonly seen and unused content. Let's start off with the fact that if Clementine decide to sneak away or simply continues to watch Victor and Ralph interrogate Christa, Winston will notice her presence and stab Christa in the back of the leg for lying to them. And should she should get caught by him and is successfully dragged back towards camp, Victor eventually catches up to tell him they gotta go and to forget about the girl, suggesting he just finish her--a suggestion Winston "gladly" takes with his gun. Also, if she doesn't angle him towards the approaching walker when he manages pin her in one area, he will notice the walker when it trips(?) and awkwardly let go, allowing it to get her; there's a number of ways she die at this point, actually.
As for unused content, it seems that the fight with Winston yielded minor but significant differences throughout development. For one thing, it seemed like he would get progressively enraged throughout their (apparently longer) chase, as he goes from saying doesn't want to hurt a kid/hit a girl and calmly pointing out that her and Christa's resistance is futile(not those words, obviously) to declaring he's gonna smack the shit outta her and constantly shouting/cursing at her. Clementine would also apparently begged him to either stop chasing her or not to hurt Christa at one point, which has him tell her to stop fucking running and get the fuck over here--now. Eventually, the pursuit would have a different ending--he would trip and fall into the river/lake alongside Clementine, though it's possible that he would have been seemingly nowhere to be seen when she came to on the banks. And according an anonymous account of apparent original details(recently shared by @SargeantMario101), Clementine was apparently gonna be shot in the shoulder by him at one point before this happens(hence her holding her bloody arm with hostility in the earliest version of the episode's title menu), with Winston explicitly drowning in the river afterwards.
With all of this in mind and the episode's lack of a consistent and/or present antagonist, it would have been feasible for Winston to return one last time, possibly acting as a more straightforward Big Bad in the episode by capping off Clementine's constant streak of losses with a rematch. Having lost his spear and track of his own group, the mutually alone, washed up, depleted, scavenger would no doubt be livid to see that Clementine survived the currents as well--with the one "bright" spot being that he gets the chance to finish her himself at his one pace. With both reeling from their possible losses, this sequence could honestly take place at any point between Clementine falling into the river and Clementine being on the path to meeting new people--with Winston taunting her about Christa's ambiguous fate at the hands of his buddies. Perhaps he could stumble upon the fallen camp Sam would lead her to, giving Clementine a chance to fight alongside the dog for food and for tooth. Or maybe he'd outright show up at her lowest point as a emissary of death itself in the forest, where Luke(and Pete) would come to her as a symbolic hero of divine intervention. And while we're at it, maybe both can even even have sustained injuries, making the fight "equal" in it's difficulty and adrenaline. Either way, the final encounter would likely end in his death or at least in its impending approach, unaware/aware of his scavenger group's [near] complete downfall.
P.S. One may also be forgiven for thinking that the walker that breaks into the Cabin Group's shed is actually a turned(and persistent) Winston, but alas, this is actually not the case--he's actually the former owner of the Cabin!
It's okay.
He disappeared after Episode 3, so it's normal to forget about him. Throughout Episodes 4 and 5 of ANF I was like: "Where the heck is Max???"
Amid the Ruins town. It's brought up in conversation multiple times throughout the game, theres a map in the ruins center that even shows it… more across the river.
Interestingly there is an achievement that looks like we were supposed to be going there by the end of the episode....
During the dev commentary, Jason Latino episode director spoke about how they had planned something for the town.
"If you look through the viewfinder in the earlier walk scene you can see in the background the town, like the church steeple and stuff like that.... I don't know if you go there in episode 5 but that was the original location we were trying to establish this thing and then I think that the team for episode 5 found something more interesting to do... but we were trying to establish this setting"
Can't really blame him for it, it's a common thread throughout Season 2 that things were changed and straight up forgotten from prior episodes. I… [view original content]
Like, I won't say either are overly dumb locations and have come up with one or two potentially interesting scenarios for it myself, but I don't really get why that's considered such a loss with that Season.
Aside from his body being present(and not commented on?) at David's "hearing" if Javier/he shot him in the warehouse, yeah.
It is worth noting that he did have a list/entry/whatever intended to be used in the credits, so it's not like he was completely forgotten.
It's okay.
He disappeared after Episode 3, so it's normal to forget about him. Throughout Episodes 4 and 5 of ANF I was like: "Where the heck is Max???"
Whatever makes you happy, Whatever you want--Gabriel will leave you to it.
Dutiful Prodigal Son
the worst/bad ending of ANF is the Teamup to Save Richmond ending, where among other things, Gabe outright dies. There's a couple of reasons why that aspect in itself bothers me, but I'll focus on the fact that it didn't really fit with how his character [arc] had been going up to that point and felt like something of a [habitual] copout.
Ultimately, I went as far as to say that the [downer?] ending would've worked much better as a "Gabe Leaves/Self-Exiles" type of thing. Somewhat overwhelmed with some combination of guilt and shame, Gabe would decide that it'd be better if he just left so Javier and Kate can live their lives together without anything. Obviously, he's clearly not thinking straight in the wake of all of the loss that's occurred and there'd be an option to talk some sense into him that is dependent on your relationship with him , but in one of the less positive scenarios, Javier and Clementine wouldn't [be able to] convince him and could only see him off as leaves Richmond down the road his dad was angrily driving them on, feeling bad that things got that bad within him and having to come up with someway to explain not bringing him back to Kate.
So naturally, this would inevitably spark discussion/debate about where he's possibly going, whether letting him go or talking him out of it was the right thing, and of course, could he return in a future installment--like, say, "Clementine's Story." And then, when that video featuring little interview and clips with the crew that both precedes and reveals the fact that the next game is in fact The Final Season.
Which, among other things, would probably encourage debate about whether Gabe could show up there if you got that ending, should he be involved in it, how might he be involved in and/or influence it, and, most importantly, whether he'd have any real relevance or even precedence of showing up there. I won't say how the debate on that point would be outlined and represented, but I will point out that those with the proper amount of Fridge Logic at the time would correctly realize that he in fact won't be in it and that [those who got] that ending would be the last time he's seen in the soon-to-be-ending series....
What do you think could've been done with them?
How could they have affected the plot if they had been utilized more?
Why does Marlon give you mixed feelings?
Wasted characters
* Russell
* Skel/Becca
* Luke (To an extent, although his death scene was fascinating)
* Rest of the 400 Days char… moreacters
* Peter
* Gill
* Nick (His death felt premature)
* Ava
* Francine
* Greg (Michonne episode)
* Michelle
* Marlon (Mixed feelings about this one)
This is one of my favourite discussions, but I feel like it isn't being used to its full potential (hehe). Anyways, I believe the grittiness of Amid The Ruins could've been amplified if Nick were bitten and Clem and Jane had to kill him, but they don't have any weapons which results in them slitting a knife in his brain, very gritty indeed. I don't think there have been any actual bite victims in S2, so this could be interesting.
This is one of my favourite discussions, but I feel like it isn't being used to its full potential (hehe).
Yeah, unfortunately, other priorities, procrastination, and/or this weird pickiness about getting certain things done lately have interfered with my ability to make healthily paced posts here for a good while now.
That, plus, I suppose many people feel more comfortable doing a list of things when they come here and going into somewhat detailed explanations whenever it happens to naturally come up.
Funnily enough though, I was in the process of considering getting back to work on getting any of the topics I have planned done when I had the idea to link this thread when my other one.
Anyways, I believe the grittiness of Amid The Ruins could've been amplified if Nick were bitten and Clem and Jane had to kill him,
I assume as in still alive with a bite rather than already having died?
but they don't have any weapons which results in them slitting a knife in his brain, very gritty indeed.
Good Lord!
I don't think there have been any actual bite victims in S2, so this could be interesting.
I suppose that is a topic that could've been explored more than it was, yes.
This is one of my favourite discussions, but I feel like it isn't being used to its full potential (hehe). Anyways, I believe the grittiness… more of Amid The Ruins could've been amplified if Nick were bitten and Clem and Jane had to kill him, but they don't have any weapons which results in them slitting a knife in his brain, very gritty indeed. I don't think there have been any actual bite victims in S2, so this could be interesting.
Comments
Here's a question that was brought to mind earlier today: Which Season 1 character is THE one most people wish got more screentime, development, focus, etc.? Or, if you believe it's a considerably close poll, name the ones you see/believe get the most wishful thought.
Feel free to elaborate as to what is often/sometimes/occasionally cited as an area for their character to be showcased and/or what you think could've been done! Same goes for anything around or outside of the character(s)!
(And Lee doesn't count. Clementine and especially Kenny are also invalid for obvious reasons.)
One potential sentiment I feel like the released version of ANF missed out on is the idea that Gabe more or less adopted Marianna as his [honorary] sister after Hector turned, given that the latter wasn't even a Garcia originally.
.
Also, I kinda feel like she could've/should've been Kate's daughter from a previous encounter and thus Gabe's step-sister, particularly since I initially thought that was the case given the slight resemblance between the two.
(Not bothering with a pic since it wouldn't make any sense.)
Javier's Mastery of the Language
As you know, Javier's voice actor [in the final product] Jeff Schine is a white guy. This in part made it a bit noticeable to some that Javier didn't adequate speak fluent Spanish, even pronouncing Gabriel(and apparently Marianna)'s name as an average American would as opposed the Hispanic pronunciation. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrained in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time.
With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or really relating with one of his family members. Would've been an interesting way to show off the duality of Javier the Wisecracking Baseball Player and Javier the Accommodating Family Man.
I love how you say that he pronounces Mariana's name wrong while you are the one spelling it wrong.
Did I? Okay, that was admittedly a coincidence.
DOUG MATTERS.
True. Even the creators have said they wished they did more with him in the final product.
Yes, and they should have.
Back then, a friend of mine told me that the writers liked him more than Carley, too.
Eh, I guess that'd make sense. Carley is apparently just an Expy of a Dead Rising character, while Doug is based on a friend of one of the develops.
Plus, the whole shipteasing biz didn't happen until Long Road Ahead (aka the episode where she gets herself killed)as one of that episode's bits of fanservice.
Btw, sorry it took so long to respond; I thought I did until I looked through my drafts.
I personally think that Carley kissing Lee on the cheek was kind of forced... maybe it's just me.
Have you read the article about why more people saved Carley? It was interesting.
It's okay.
No, I haven't, but I assume the two main answers were "miniskirtz and sharpshooter."
Huh?
It's Carley, c'mon.
Well, the article was kinda like an interview with Jake Rodkin.
Linkage?
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/28/telltale-why-fewer-people-saved-doug-in-the-walking-dead.aspx
There ya go.
Thanks!
Okay, that is the right answer to that question: they simply gave Carley far more spotlight, relevance, and incentive compared to poor Doug, who had one major scene cut.
Chuck!!
Hello! I see you're not @Fangirl101 and yet you bumped my thread before I did. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all, it's just pretty unexpected.
Yeah, I probably should've expected Chuck would be one of first answers.
Late to this, probably already been mentioned, too but...
David. I liked him, (at least in his good, calm moments). But I think he did not get the character love he deserved. Ended up being painted as a crazy husband in the end.
I was hoping we'd be able to avoid the whole forced Love Triangle drama by the end of S3, but I guess not. How I saw Episode 5 was the possibility of David being redeemed, or at the very least being useful in his own element. It was clear that he's not the best at handling family matters (abandoning his family after being called to war, and to return not looking for them; still treating Gabe and Kate like shit after welcoming them back in), and managed to make the most for himself in the apocalypse. I thought we'd be able to see him be useful and very helpful for a change. Make Javi find a new reason to like his brother, and also for David to find a way he can provide for his family and actually, really, completely protect them for once.
His whole speech on the roof of EP5: "When I look out there, I see a sniper tower, a trench, etc." was pretty profound, and gave insight into who he was, and how he is able to lead and give something to the world. He also mentions his need to change, as it's "the one war I could never win." This would have been his time to prove himself, and to do some real good not just for his family, but for the good of the whole town.
I expected him to round up the survivors, lead them into battle, and manage to fortify Richmond from the horde. It would have been a great climactic moment, and maybe one of the best for David.
Too bad we did our own thing and he got paranoid over a non-existent 3-year long affair.
Ooh, a full true contribution_!_ Let's see what we--
Oh, the irony(?), considering the long post I've been sittin on for quite a while...
There was a love triangle?
Eh, I think abusive jackass and/or envious brother is the term you wanted to use there.
Cause honestly speaking, his marriage to Kate did not matter much at all.
I can't believe I have to ask this in this case, but 'redeemed' of what?
You think so? I thought he was [mostly] treating them pretty well, all things considered.
Up til From the Gallows at least.
To be fair, he seemed useful enough already.
Oh, is that what he said? Huh.
I honestly check'd out during that scene.
I expected Javier/Tripp, thatPaulGuy, and Ava/Max/Gabe to do that personally, but I guess that was still too much to expect.
Yeah, seriously.
Yeah, didn't know what to put there. He was just a huge jerk, in summary.
"Redeemed" of the horrible treatment of his brother, his wife, and (in EP5 at least) Gabe. Maybe that wasn't the right word to use, but he would have been a big help in cleaning up Richmond, and that would have been great.
Ehh, it's been a while since I've played ANF so I don't have all the specifics of David's relationship to others. The only moments that really stick out to me were when he was a huge jerk.
(and yes, I'm counting flashbacks too.)
Kate didn't like to be around him, he mostly treated Javier like crap (blaming and lashing out at him). Didn't always give me good vibes.
May have been too late to post this, since my memory of him is kinda blurry. But, just pitching in my two cents.
I know something felt kinda off about his whole story arc once I'd finished the season.
I just saw this for the first time. I'm not even a big Kenny fan, but just thinking about the possibilities.
I know it would have been technically unfeasible to do so many different outcomes, but to think about it. Damn it, man...
I like how they seemingly editted out the dialogue to make inserting Kenny lines in easier...and yet did NEITHER!
Bumping this back for some long held off plans and encouraging more creative personal contributions.
For those who may have been confused about what can generally be done here:
What characters, plot points, locations, or smaller elements/traits of any of the three did you find interesting and think could've used more time, focus, and/or development in the story? And in what ways could that have been done?
I hate you
Hey ya'll--DabigRG here! It’s been such a long time since I last did a proper entry, hasn’t it? Truth be told, I had another two or three planned, with one in particular that I’ve kinda been wanting to do having the data cannibalizing done and ready for cohesive drafting –but I just didn’t have the time and energy to dedicate to adequately posting it. So, for the sake of finally getting things going again, I’m officially postponing that in favor of something different. Someone easy to understand and get behind from a slightly cross-installment perspective—Edith!
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Guard of a Failed Fantasy
(Btw, if someone could find me a place to get a good modelswap of ANF!Edith, that'd be frosty)
.
It has been argued that the direction towards the goal of Season 2 is a journey to Wellington, Ohio –a place where there’s fresh lots of land and cold winters so the walkers get slow. Both Christa and Kenny were struggling to deal with their losses and grievances in trying to get Clementine and/or AJ to the place. And should she choose to stick by him even after the group falls apart and a deadly fight in the snow concludes with him killing Jane, Clementine and AJ can indeed make it to the big camp up near Michigan. There, awaiting at the front(?) gates was Gatekeeper Edith, whose job was is to access the survivor’s who reach the community and hand out supplies to those who can’t enter.
As fate would have it, Clementine, Alvin Jr., and Kenny would fall into the latter category, as the settlement was over capacity and there simply wasn’t enough room left inside, meaning she had to turn people away despite her disagreement with the policy. She would then be touched by the old dog’s pleas to at least take in the children, as they don’t require as much maintenance as an adult and deserve a place where they’ll meet new people and make friends—where they won’t have to sleep with a gun next to them every night and can be kids for a while. Edith eventually accepts to personally adopt them against orders that she will accept his pleas and should the girl agree to honor the trip Christa set her on, watches Clementine exchange a tearful goodbye and accept Kenny’s cap on the baby’s behalf before entering the gates opposite of his leaving with the bag of supplies and a refusal to look back.
Unfortunately, whether the two make it there and enter or not, it seems that this safe place for the two wouldn’t be safe for very long…. As time went on and things inevitably got harder in the post-apocalyptic world, Wellington’s strategy would get to a point where it was no longer feasible to uphold and they would have to prioritize the continued survival of their home over that of visitors and charity cases. This sudden cut off of desperately needed resources would seriously anger a number of local scavenging families who would band together in order to demand they be given the food necessary to support their families or they would have no choice to take the place by force. Edith’s fellow Gate Guard would inevitably fail to convince the families to leave and the settlement would become under deadly siege by the starving scavengers. Tragically, Edith would become a casualty of this attack, as she is shot through the back of the forehead while escaping to the trees with the children, forcing Clementine to uncover the thankfully unharmed AJ from Edith’s corpse and continue fleeing with him as a group of scavengers manage to nick her cheek with giving chase.
Considering how Wellington was established as a safe haven in the first episode of Season 2, it’s real shame that not only is the settlement itself is ultimately left unexplored, but that Edith herself doesn’t even survive long enough for her character to get some development. This is a woman who personally protected the community at the front gate for who knows how long and had to deal with the different orders she was given as she constantly met different travelers she either happily approved or sadly sent packin’, not to mention personally took responsibility for Clementine and Alvie when she was under strict orders not to let anyone else in. And despite her duties to the people and dwellings of Wellington, she would eventually become something of a nervous wreck and prioritize getting her two adopted wards to safety when the reality of all of her work blew up ingloriously. It also feels like a really weird missed opportunity that we should lose a character that was not only pretty much brand new and not bogged down by previous gameplay choices, but also do so in a story where the raiding of other settlements is a significant plot point driving the story.
Thus, the plot and cast could’ve been conveniently enhanced a bit by having Edith survive the fall of Wellington and meet/accompany Clementine during the two years between Season 2’s endings and her meeting with Javier. In addition to the obvious opportunities to learn about her life before the outbreak, chronicling her career afterwards, and exploring her bonds to Clementine and AJ, there would also be opportunities to explore what kind of regrets, struggles, and trauma may be plaguing her caring being from both before, during, and after the events leading to Wellington’s downfall.
In the scenario where Clementine actually does enter Wellington, perhaps we could get an extra flashback or two showing their interactions at a previous point, where we’d learn more about Edith herself, share stories about Clementine’s experiences with her, witness some of the family members’ earlier visits, and indications that there were increasingly less supplies she could afford to hand out, with Edith half-heartedly claiming that their public survival strategy would do them well in the end. And if we were lucky, we could’ve even gotten an encounter with the Leader she disobeyed for the kids’ sake, and even see some of the safe haven. Thus, the flashback in which the families scornfully raid the place could potentially be even longer, as Edith/Clementine could choose to aid a few people in getting to safety while Clementine/Edith gathers some things of either her own and/or of the other’s to take or console AJ a bit in his fear induced by the ransacking.
In the scenario where Clementine either refuses to enter the place or simply never sees it at all, perhaps Edith actually and either fails in barely surviving or, even worse, is forced to save herself(and maybe others) at the behest of a coworker or even her normally strict Leader. She could then meet Clementine further down the road and regretful inform her of what eventually happened to two of her friends’ intended destination for refuge.
Either way, perhaps she would eventually end up in Prescott, Virginia, where she would finally have a safe place to rest her head, deal with her regrets, and where she could maybe serve once again as a Gatekeeper in the events where Tripp has to take care of something. Assuming she’s able to handle the potentially stressful and even triggering sense of déjà vu the significantly rougher variant of the position could have, that is. Thus, Javier Clementine and/or Javier could offer her some compassion and absorption as they get recounts of all she had been through before, during, and after Wellington’ downfall when they meet with and interact with her. The many people she let in, befriended, and [mostly] lost within the community. The several survivors she had to turn away, possibly doom, or even fire on. How the government she was a part of chose to give out care packages out of the goodness of their hearts to those they couldn’t allow inside, believing people would appreciate such compensatory kindness and how they never thought that it would ultimately cause the settlement to have fire rained upon it. She could even act as a varying source of incite and commentary on Clementine’s current character when Javier walks around the town.
And of course, when Badger would give the unauthorized order to raid the western town, flood it with the New Frontier’s walker troops, and pretty much destroy the town itself completely, Edith would have to experience losing another community (and later nearly two) and perhaps would have to consider what actions/options should and shouldn’t be taken to ensure that such a travesty never has to be experienced again.
(PS. Sorry this took so many weeks to actually finish.)
Scrappin up for a fight--The Scavenger, Winston!
(This is only here because I love this savefile-chapter-pics. The REAL image is below.)
Fittingly enough, Season 2's premiere episode All That Remains follows Clementine as she loses the only two guardians she has left to one of the more common, if opportunistic types of survivors in the outbreak--Scavengers! After accidentally costing Omid his life due to making herself vulnerable to just Junior Scavenger Michelle sixteen months prior, Clementine would have a solemn campfire broken up by Victor, "Ralph", and Winston, a trio of hungry Scavengers she finds holding Christa at gunpoint. Smelling their cooking weasel and inquiring as to where the rest of her group is, one or both of the females would do what they could to give the other an opening to escape--which in Clementine's case, meant throwing a rock right into the lancer's. Once Clementine's presence is the discovered, Winston would chase the girl through the woods while the other two stay behind to deal with Christa. Voicing his increasing frustration and making several attempts to wring her in by force, the deranged scavenger is finally killed near the fuckin river when his final attempt to tussle with Clementine fails and the two find themselves struggling to escape separate walkers. Clementine breaking free of her's gets him knocked over and pinned by a walker, killing the apparently not very tasty scavenger with a bite to the neck and allowing the girl to make an unintentional aquatic escape.
It is worth noting that there is fair a bit of both uncommonly seen and unused content. Let's start off with the fact that if Clementine decide to sneak away or simply continues to watch Victor and Ralph interrogate Christa, Winston will notice her presence and stab Christa in the back of the leg for lying to them. And should she should get caught by him and is successfully dragged back towards camp, Victor eventually catches up to tell him they gotta go and to forget about the girl, suggesting he just finish her--a suggestion Winston "gladly" takes with his gun. Also, if she doesn't angle him towards the approaching walker when he manages pin her in one area, he will notice the walker when it trips(?) and awkwardly let go, allowing it to get her; there's a number of ways she die at this point, actually.
As for unused content, it seems that the fight with Winston yielded minor but significant differences throughout development. For one thing, it seemed like he would get progressively enraged throughout their (apparently longer) chase, as he goes from saying doesn't want to hurt a kid/hit a girl and calmly pointing out that her and Christa's resistance is futile(not those words, obviously) to declaring he's gonna smack the shit outta her and constantly shouting/cursing at her. Clementine would also apparently begged him to either stop chasing her or not to hurt Christa at one point, which has him tell her to stop fucking running and get the fuck over here--now. Eventually, the pursuit would have a different ending--he would trip and fall into the river/lake alongside Clementine, though it's possible that he would have been seemingly nowhere to be seen when she came to on the banks. And according an anonymous account of apparent original details(recently shared by @SargeantMario101), Clementine was apparently gonna be shot in the shoulder by him at one point before this happens(hence her holding her bloody arm with hostility in the earliest version of the episode's title menu), with Winston explicitly drowning in the river afterwards.
(Surfs Up!)
Credit to @Graysonn
With all of this in mind and the episode's lack of a consistent and/or present antagonist, it would have been feasible for Winston to return one last time, possibly acting as a more straightforward Big Bad in the episode by capping off Clementine's constant streak of losses with a rematch. Having lost his spear and track of his own group, the mutually alone, washed up, depleted, scavenger would no doubt be livid to see that Clementine survived the currents as well--with the one "bright" spot being that he gets the chance to finish her himself at his one pace. With both reeling from their possible losses, this sequence could honestly take place at any point between Clementine falling into the river and Clementine being on the path to meeting new people--with Winston taunting her about Christa's ambiguous fate at the hands of his buddies. Perhaps he could stumble upon the fallen camp Sam would lead her to, giving Clementine a chance to fight alongside the dog for food and for tooth. Or maybe he'd outright show up at her lowest point as a emissary of death itself in the forest, where Luke(and Pete) would come to her as a symbolic hero of divine intervention. And while we're at it, maybe both can even even have sustained injuries, making the fight "equal" in it's difficulty and adrenaline. Either way, the final encounter would likely end in his death or at least in its impending approach, unaware/aware of his scavenger group's [near] complete downfall.
P.S. One may also be forgiven for thinking that the walker that breaks into the Cabin Group's shed is actually a turned(and persistent) Winston, but alas, this is actually not the case--he's actually the former owner of the Cabin!
Holy shit, I completely forgot Max existed
It's all coming back now
It's okay.
He disappeared after Episode 3, so it's normal to forget about him. Throughout Episodes 4 and 5 of ANF I was like: "Where the heck is Max???"
I'm quoting this post, but anyone(particularly veterans) can answer: What exactly did ya'll expect to get with the church and/or the town?
Yeah, I never understood why people are so sad about the church.
Like, I won't say either are overly dumb locations and have come up with one or two potentially interesting scenarios for it myself, but I don't really get why that's considered such a loss with that Season.
Aside from his body being present(and not commented on?) at David's "hearing" if Javier/he shot him in the warehouse, yeah.
It is worth noting that he did have a list/entry/whatever intended to be used in the credits, so it's not like he was completely forgotten.
Whatever makes you happy, Whatever you want--Gabriel will leave you to it.
Dutiful Prodigal Son
the worst/bad ending of ANF is the Teamup to Save Richmond ending, where among other things, Gabe outright dies. There's a couple of reasons why that aspect in itself bothers me, but I'll focus on the fact that it didn't really fit with how his character [arc] had been going up to that point and felt like something of a [habitual] copout.
Ultimately, I went as far as to say that the [downer?] ending would've worked much better as a "Gabe Leaves/Self-Exiles" type of thing. Somewhat overwhelmed with some combination of guilt and shame, Gabe would decide that it'd be better if he just left so Javier and Kate can live their lives together without anything. Obviously, he's clearly not thinking straight in the wake of all of the loss that's occurred and there'd be an option to talk some sense into him that is dependent on your relationship with him , but in one of the less positive scenarios, Javier and Clementine wouldn't [be able to] convince him and could only see him off as leaves Richmond down the road his dad was angrily driving them on, feeling bad that things got that bad within him and having to come up with someway to explain not bringing him back to Kate.
So naturally, this would inevitably spark discussion/debate about where he's possibly going, whether letting him go or talking him out of it was the right thing, and of course, could he return in a future installment--like, say, "Clementine's Story." And then, when that video featuring little interview and clips with the crew that both precedes and reveals the fact that the next game is in fact The Final Season.
Which, among other things, would probably encourage debate about whether Gabe could show up there if you got that ending, should he be involved in it, how might he be involved in and/or influence it, and, most importantly, whether he'd have any real relevance or even precedence of showing up there. I won't say how the debate on that point would be outlined and represented, but I will point out that those with the proper amount of Fridge Logic at the time would correctly realize that he in fact won't be in it and that [those who got] that ending would be the last time he's seen in the soon-to-be-ending series....
And then last E3(or whatever it was) happened....
Wasted characters
What do you think could've been done with them?
How could they have affected the plot if they had been utilized more?
Why does Marlon give you mixed feelings?
This is one of my favourite discussions, but I feel like it isn't being used to its full potential (hehe). Anyways, I believe the grittiness of Amid The Ruins could've been amplified if Nick were bitten and Clem and Jane had to kill him, but they don't have any weapons which results in them slitting a knife in his brain, very gritty indeed. I don't think there have been any actual bite victims in S2, so this could be interesting.
Yeah, unfortunately, other priorities, procrastination, and/or this weird pickiness about getting certain things done lately have interfered with my ability to make healthily paced posts here for a good while now.
That, plus, I suppose many people feel more comfortable doing a list of things when they come here and going into somewhat detailed explanations whenever it happens to naturally come up.
Funnily enough though, I was in the process of considering getting back to work on getting any of the topics I have planned done when I had the idea to link this thread when my other one.
I assume as in still alive with a bite rather than already having died?
Good Lord!
I suppose that is a topic that could've been explored more than it was, yes.