I just looked into it and it turns out it's one of TT's many blunders with communicating plot and it's up to everyone to interpret supposidl… morey. Supposidly they told the Voice Actor of Lee, Dave Fennoy that Lee killed both the wife and senator which is why he said so in an interview. But then fans say he didn't because Lee hints to her still being alive and that he only hurt her.
But In my story I 100 percent thought in both playtrhoughs that he killed both. Found them cheating and blanked. But I guess I could have been misinterperting. It's what was always conveyed to me. The dark under tone, the secrecy. But I think I might have been wrong.
Either way he still killed a dude over something that was his wife's fault. Which is still murder and still a brash and irresponsible decision. It's something he condemned for.
Literally everything as far as i'm concerned. Unless they knew ahead of time and were your friend or something than maybe. But just some random? It's just primative animalistic idiotic victim misappropriation to act like someone deserves to die because they fucked a girl you love without even knowing. The girl made a free decision. Can't fault the unaware pursuant.
Say you were smashing a girl, turns out she was married and never told you. Guy walks in, MURDERS you in cold blood. Definitely you deserved it. totally rational. It's just dumb. Anyone willing to kill people over a slut anyway is crazy. If anyone deserves to die it's the wife.
but when was it mentioned that the senator didn’t know about Lee? It was never confirmed that Lee’s wife kept Lee a secret from the guy she was fucking
Literally everything as far as i'm concerned. Unless they knew ahead of time and were your friend or something than maybe. But just some r… moreandom? It's just primative animalistic idiotic victim misappropriation to act like someone deserves to die because they fucked a girl you love without even knowing. The girl made a free decision. Can't fault the unaware pursuant.
Say you were smashing a girl, turns out she was married and never told you. Guy walks in, MURDERS you in cold blood. Definitely you deserved it. totally rational. It's just dumb. Anyone willing to kill people over a slut anyway is crazy. If anyone deserves to die it's the wife.
I hope you reread what you just said and think about it. It disturbs me that you think its ok to “kill” someone over an affair. Would you kill someone if they coughed near you too Melton?
Carley only ever said “you killed a state senator who was sleeping with your wife” so nothing was mentioned about him killing her too. I’m sure he can tell Hershel about his wife too
I just looked into it and it turns out it's one of TT's many blunders with communicating plot and it's up to everyone to interpret supposidl… morey. Supposidly they told the Voice Actor of Lee, Dave Fennoy that Lee killed both the wife and senator which is why he said so in an interview. But then fans say he didn't because Lee hints to her still being alive and that he only hurt her.
But In my story I 100 percent thought in both playtrhoughs that he killed both. Found them cheating and blanked. But I guess I could have been misinterperting. It's what was always conveyed to me. The dark under tone, the secrecy. But I think I might have been wrong.
Either way he still killed a dude over something that was his wife's fault. Which is still murder and still a brash and irresponsible decision. It's something he condemned for.
I mean, Kenny was and always has been a team player, even though he was actively playing against his teammates. Minerva just straight up switched teams. That said, I’d pick Minerva. At least her reason for working against her teammates checks out. Kenny had no reason to fight against his team(except when it came to Bonnie and Mike), and I don’t need someone like that. That’s why I said i’m killing Violet if she gets in my way again.
I hope you reread what you just said and think about it. It disturbs me that you think its ok to “kill” someone over an affair. Would you kill someone if they coughed near you too Melton?
Kenny always had to keep score with Lee, something that a real friend would never do.
Trust takes a hell of a long time to come by and if someone you think may be a friend doesn’t have your back all the time in a “zombie apocalypse” why should he have yours?
You didn't help me murder a guy in a meat locker, Lee?
Killed, it’s not murder when you don’t know for certain someone is dead. Besides, that isn’t the reason Kenny “kept score” with Lee. His relationship with Lee went sour at that point because Lee determinantly puts everyone in danger trying to save Larry (a guy who left Lee to die in the drugstore i might add) so it’s understandable for Kenny to be pretty pissed off with Lee for that especially because Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry punched him in the face.
You didn't agree with my plan to use a screaming girl as live walker bait?
Again i don’t blame him. Why should Lee be a dick about that when the fact is the girl couldn’t be saved and as cruel as it was, it was about survival and having her as bait helped not only them but the entire group as well.
You didn't drop a scared teenage boy from a bell tower?
Ben was putting everyone in danger, Kenny saw him as a threat so Lee deciding to keep someone who fucks up and a potential danger is kind of stupid in Kenny’s mind but again it’s understandable for him to have a problem with Lee about that even though I gave Ben the benefit of the doubt.
Suddenly it didn't matter that I defended his son from Larry in the pharmacy, saved him on the farm, gave him dwindling food rations, water, and finally ended Duck's life myself to spare Kenny pain - nope. Suddenly I was always a bastard.
Yes because the meat locker choice greatly damages the relationship because of how serious it was. You have to remind Kenny about the past things you did for his wife and son and when he is reminded he is totally fine with you at the end of Ep4
Yeah, Kenny is a bit of a racist. Don't worry, I'm not as touchy about that as some people, and I know Kenny isn't some Nazi or supremacist, but this part of his character is hard to ignore.
No I wouldn’t even call that racist. They are more stereotypical views. Black people for many many years have been stereotyped as criminals, picking locks, burglars whatever. Commie/communist again is a stereotype. If Kenny was truly racist he would not have married a Belgian woman nor would he have been romantically involved with Sarita an Indian lady.
It was either boat or nothing. Wellington or nothing. Anybody who thinks otherwise is gonna get an earful:
Yet they don’t have to follow what he does either. He was never going to stop anyone from going their separate ways to do what they wanted. At least he actually tried thinking of plans of what to do. More than can be said for other characters who wanted to stay put or just smile and nod to look stupid half the time.
Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead hands!
Words, nothing more and he didn’t mean it to be fair. He even says he would pull the car over during the argument with Jane when she wanted out.
He tells her he oughta slap her. Yep, instead of comforting her, he threatens violence.
No you have completely misinterpreted that wrong. “I oughta slap you” is like a father saying he’ll spank his daughter for being naughty. Kenny says “What if Lee hadn’t gone across Georgia looking for you” and Clementine actually said “Maybe Lee shouldn’t have”. What a horrible thing to say! Lee sacrificed himself to get her back including the rest of the group so is it surprising Kenny was shocked and annoyed by her response? And anyway, sticks and stones, his threat was as i said, like a father talking to his daughter when she had misbehaved that is all it was.
If Clementine gets up to try to physically stop him from beating Arvo, he headbutts her.
He doesn’t headbutt her, he ACCIDENTALLY elbows her as he is punching Arvo and then looks horrified at what he did to her. The thing is, it was stupid of her to go near him whilst he was doing that anyway. When she asks him to stop he does so.
If she gets in between him and Jane during their fight and picks him to reason with, he throws her to the ground and says "Get outta my way!"
Well what do you expect when she is getting involved and putting herself in danger by doing so? One would argue he shoved her out of the way to keep her from danger. Jane pushes her to the ground as well so it’s no different.
Kenny.
Jesus Christ does everyone love Kenny, but for me, he always had a side to him that rubbed me the wrong way. He definitely had red… moreeeming factors, don't get me wrong, and my respect for him grew tenfold when he made sure Alvie and Clementine made it into Wellington safely but man...
* Kenny always had to keep score with Lee, something that a real friend would never do. You didn't help me murder a guy in a meat locker, Lee? You didn't agree with my plan to use a screaming girl as live walker bait? You didn't drop a scared teenage boy from a bell tower? You had it out for me the whole time and were only thinking of yourself!
Suddenly it didn't matter that I defended his son from Larry in the pharmacy, saved him on the farm, gave him dwindling food rations, water, and finally ended Duck's life myself to spare Kenny pain - nope. Suddenly I was always a bastard.
* "You know, you're... urban?" "Fucking Commie piece of shit!" … [view original content]
So you have this bitch who kills her own sister in cold blood and you STILL rather her than Kenny.
Fucking hell
And you’re completely wrong, Kenny had every reason to go against his teams wishes. At least he was fucking honest about everything he ever did and you could trust the guy. Minerva on the other hand can eat shit and die. She pretends to help you then knocks Clem out and locks everyone in a cell. She also outright tries to kill Clementine. She could never ever be trusted and her reasons for switching sides was brainwash. She didn’t have a choice really. But seriously fuck that bitch
I mean, Kenny was and always has been a team player, even though he was actively playing against his teammates. Minerva just straight up swi… moretched teams. That said, I’d pick Minerva. At least her reason for working against her teammates checks out. Kenny had no reason to fight against his team(except when it came to Bonnie and Mike), and I don’t need someone like that. That’s why I said i’m killing Violet if she gets in my way again.
She pretends to help you then knocks Clem out and locks everyone in a cell
I personally never trusted her, the game’s just scripted to take that coarse. qif it were up to me I never would’ve taken my eyes off of Minerva from the moment we stepped foot on the boat. Yeah she can’t be trusted, but I expect that from someone who’s not my friend.
Kenny had every reason to go against his teams wishes.
When Carver had everyone hostage in the cabin, I told Kenny not to shoot because Carver would kill them yet he still took the shot, and caused Walter to get killed. You’re saying Kenny had the rights to his teammates’ lives?
She didn’t have a choice really.
She did. It was either join them or die. I think she should’ve died but no one wants to so...
So you have this bitch who kills her own sister in cold blood and you STILL rather her than Kenny.
Fucking hell
And you’re completely … morewrong, Kenny had every reason to go against his teams wishes. At least he was fucking honest about everything he ever did and you could trust the guy. Minerva on the other hand can eat shit and die. She pretends to help you then knocks Clem out and locks everyone in a cell. She also outright tries to kill Clementine. She could never ever be trusted and her reasons for switching sides was brainwash. She didn’t have a choice really. But seriously fuck that bitch
When Carver had everyone hostage in the cabin, I told Kenny not to shoot because Carver would kill them yet he still took the shot, and caused Walter to get killed. You’re saying Kenny had the rights to his teammates’ lives?
Well first of all Kenny didn’t owe any of them anything, they weren’t even his friends, they invaded his home and brought Carver to him yet he was trying to help despite that. Sure he still took the shot but Kenny has always been like that, he makes mistakes, regrets it later but i don’t think he should be hated for actually trying to do something which was more than what could be said for Luke who seemed to just hide away somewhere when his friends needed him. Later on Kenny doesn’t shoot if Clem either grabs the gun off him or tells him not to shoot so he does eventually listen to reason.
It’s like i said, the cabin group are the reason Kenny and Sarita got taken hostage by them in the end. That’s not a good enough example for me and even if it was, i am not going to hold a grudge against him.
She did. It was either join them or die. I think she should’ve died but no one wants to so...
How is it a choice to join them or die? She wouldn’t choose to die would she? Lol. So she had no choice but to join them. Point is, i would never prefer someone who kills their own sister in cold blood over someone like Kenny.
She pretends to help you then knocks Clem out and locks everyone in a cell
I personally never trusted her, the game’s just scripted … moreto take that coarse. qif it were up to me I never would’ve taken my eyes off of Minerva from the moment we stepped foot on the boat. Yeah she can’t be trusted, but I expect that from someone who’s not my friend.
Kenny had every reason to go against his teams wishes.
When Carver had everyone hostage in the cabin, I told Kenny not to shoot because Carver would kill them yet he still took the shot, and caused Walter to get killed. You’re saying Kenny had the rights to his teammates’ lives?
She didn’t have a choice really.
She did. It was either join them or die. I think she should’ve died but no one wants to so...
But seriously fuck that bitch
Yeah
Well first of all Kenny didn’t owe any of them anything
If I used that to justify Jane leaving the group and killing herself you would’ve told me she was still wrong for doing so, but ok.
They weren’t even his friends
So it’s ok for him to go around getting innocent people who are on the run killed?
they invaded his home and brought Carver to him
the cabin group are the reason Kenny and Sarita got taken hostage by them in the end.
They invaded his home, huh? Get your facts straight and stop making things up, boy.
Also, don’t blame them, blame Bonnie. Carver wouldn’t have known they were there if she hadn’t told him they were
so he does eventually listen to reason
If you don’t say anything he takes the shot, even after getting walter killed. He only stopped when Sarita’s life got threatened. He only cares about those he has power over.
How is it a choice to join them or die?
You saw what happened to Mitch and heard what happened to Minnie. Mitch fought back and got killed, and Minnie wouldn’t stop resisting. If they both complied, you think they would’ve died? That’s how it’s a choice.
Point is, i would never prefer someone who kills their own sister in cold blood over someone like Kenny
In what context do you prefer him over her? Like, you’re saying you prefer Kenny on your team than Minerva, or you prefer Kenny in the game than Minerva? I’m confused
When Carver had everyone hostage in the cabin, I told Kenny not to shoot because Carver would kill them yet he still took the shot, and caus… moreed Walter to get killed. You’re saying Kenny had the rights to his teammates’ lives?
Well first of all Kenny didn’t owe any of them anything, they weren’t even his friends, they invaded his home and brought Carver to him yet he was trying to help despite that. Sure he still took the shot but Kenny has always been like that, he makes mistakes, regrets it later but i don’t think he should be hated for actually trying to do something which was more than what could be said for Luke who seemed to just hide away somewhere when his friends needed him. Later on Kenny doesn’t shoot if Clem either grabs the gun off him or tells him not to shoot so he does eventually listen to reason.
It’s like i said, the cabin group are the reason Kenny and Sarita got taken hostage by them in the end. That’s not a good … [view original content]
So your response was way, way late so I'm gonna have to gather my memory again to respond to you.
You were right about that scene with Arvo. I remembered it wrong. Kenny does indeed accidentally elbow Clementine as he's rearing his fist back to beat on Arvo.
Kenny throwing her to the ground in his fight against Jane also wasn't as big of a deal as I made it because again, yeah, she was in the way of two very angry, violent people and simply getting a shove was probably the best thing that could've happened to her.
3.
Lee determinately puts everyone in danger trying to save Larry (a guy who left Lee to die in the drugstore i might add) so it’s understandable for Kenny to be pretty pissed off with Lee for that especially because Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry punched him in the face.
I may understand Kenny being angry about Lee endangering them all, but again, Lee calls him out on the fact that it's easy for him to "do what has to be done" when it doesn't involve anyone close to him, but as you saw, as soon as his son got bit, he went into denial just as Lily did. He wasn't willing to blow his kid's brains out just as Lily wasn't willing to have a salt lick dropped on her dad's skull while she was in the middle of CPR.
I can also understand his side of things with Ben and the girl in the street, but again, Ben had to call him out on the fact that he isn't the only one suffering. Even Season Two has Clementine determinately call him out on his behavior, telling him that she had to shoot Lee, so stop putting his pain before everyone else's! Kenny has always had this selfish side of him!
You have to remind Kenny about the past things you did for his wife and son and when he is reminded he is totally fine with you at the end of Ep4
But it's hard for most people to pick the "Clementine is my family option" because Kenny's tirade on you feels unfair and unreasonable, which is why I saw a lot of let's players get fed up and choose the "go fuck yourself" option. Kenny claims that Lee has been looking out for himself more than his friends, which is such a load of bullshit it defies words. He asks "would you be there for me? Because there's been a lot of times where you ain't been". I wish there was an option that said: "NAME THEM." which would force him to be specific. Otherwise you're sitting there with your mouth open. JonesGotGame also made a great point in his Let's Play where he countered: "I can't even COUNT the amount of times you haven't been there for me!" It feels pretty shitty to save him from a walker grabbing him on the sidewalk in Episode 4, yet have him not even help you while a door and walkers are pinning you to the floor in the drugstore.
Okay, we'll call it stereotypical thinking. Doesn't make it any less offensive or backwards, but whatever.
Kenny is a lot like Lily. He craves control. When he says "She's staying" at the ski lodge, there's no room for a choice on Clementine's part. Sarita tries to gently correct him but Kenny's statements remain declarations, not offers. "She's staying for good." "Only if she wants." "Of course she wants to. Right, Clem?" Is he literally physically forcing her? No, but this behavior continues. He will constantly guilt trip Clementine: "Remember that OTHER time we had a working car and sat around on our asses, Clem?" and antagonize the rest of the group for not agreeing with him. Don't forget the biggest one: "Look, I don't give two shits about what you people think. I got this truck going so I say where we go, and we're heading fucking North." The group won't always agree, but flat out saying, "Fuck you people. It's my way or the highway." is anti-social/cooperative to the extreme.
He didn't "volunteer" to pull over. He said "I'll pull over" out of anger, not a genuine offer. When Jane did specifically want out, he taunted her. "Running away again? What a fucking shocker!"
However this I will not bend on:
Kenny says “What if Lee hadn’t gone across Georgia looking for you” and Clementine actually said “Maybe Lee shouldn’t have”.
That's called survivor's guilt. Yes, to Kenny that would sound very ungrateful but that's not how it is to Clementine. Remember that this option shows up after Jane tells her a story about 4 people coming down to try to help a member of their group who was already bitten, and then he bit a chunk out of an old lady's neck. So she's probably thinking, "Was it really worth it to save me, if it meant losing Lee?"
Kenny always had to keep score with Lee, something that a real friend would never do.
Trust takes a hell of a long time to come by a… morend if someone you think may be a friend doesn’t have your back all the time in a “zombie apocalypse” why should he have yours?
You didn't help me murder a guy in a meat locker, Lee?
Killed, it’s not murder when you don’t know for certain someone is dead. Besides, that isn’t the reason Kenny “kept score” with Lee. His relationship with Lee went sour at that point because Lee determinantly puts everyone in danger trying to save Larry (a guy who left Lee to die in the drugstore i might add) so it’s understandable for Kenny to be pretty pissed off with Lee for that especially because Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry punched him in the face.
You didn't agree with my plan to use a screaming girl as live walker bait?
Again i don’t blame him. Why should Lee be a dick about that when … [view original content]
Yeah exactly and the sad fact is, there are people like that. Butthurt people who have never got over a few insults here and there from Kenny or whatever else he did to hurt their widdle feewings!
Thanks for the reply, i realise your post was made a while back but someone bumped the thread and i happened to see it only now.
I may understand Kenny being angry about Lee endangering them all, but again, Lee calls him out on the fact that it's easy for him to "do what has to be done" when it doesn't involve anyone close to him, but as you saw, as soon as his son got bit, he went into denial just as Lily did. He wasn't willing to blow his kid's brains out just as Lily wasn't willing to have a salt lick dropped on her dad's skull while she was in the middle of CPR.
Of course! I mean who could kill their loved one under such circumstances? That is why someone else had to do something right? Kenny dealt with Larry and Lee dealt with Duck. I see people call out Kenny for not dealing with Duck so quickly like he did with Larry but let me just explain something first of all. The situation with Larry was very different to that of Duck. Larry wasn’t bitten, his heart gave in and he was clinically dead, moments away from turning and the group were trapped in a room with a guy who could easily overpower them due to his size. Kenny did what no one else had the balls to do to keep everyone safe otherwise they’d have died.
Now with Duck, he was bitten and was dying slowly, the group had time to deal with him, they weren’t trapped, they had weapons and he was only a small boy who could be held down if necessary as they also had more people to help.
But anyway, yes I wouldn’t expect anyone to do the hard thing for their own loved one. Not at least without some guidance.
I can also understand his side of things with Ben and the girl in the street, but again, Ben had to call him out on the fact that he isn't the only one suffering.
You’re right and it’s good when Ben did because Kenny then realised he had never thought about it that way, it put a new perspective on things. Kenny never used his dead family as an excuse for any sympathy though, he never asked for anyone to feel sorry for him.
Even Season Two has Clementine determinately call him out on his behavior, telling him that she had to shoot Lee, so stop putting his pain before everyone else's! Kenny has always had this selfish side of him!
I do agree, he often doesn’t think things through, he does see things one way more often than not. People like Lee and Clem need to make him see that sometimes and it showed in both seasons when Kenny eventually sees reason.
But it's hard for most people to pick the "Clementine is my family option" because Kenny's tirade on you feels unfair and unreasonable, which is why I saw a lot of let's players get fed up and choose the "go fuck yourself" option. Kenny claims that Lee has been looking out for himself more than his friends, which is such a load of bullshit it defies words. He asks "would you be there for me? Because there's been a lot of times where you ain't been". I wish there was an option that said: "NAME THEM." which would force him to be specific. Otherwise you're sitting there with your mouth open. JonesGotGame also made a great point in his Let's Play where he countered: "I can't even COUNT the amount of times you haven't been there for me!" It feels pretty shitty to save him from a walker grabbing him on the sidewalk in Episode 4, yet have him not even help you while a door and walkers are pinning you to the floor in the drugstore.
Ok fair enough i see what you’re saying. I reckon a possible reason that he says “you weren’t there for me” etc could be because the writers assume you went more down the path of being against him. What they should have done is a far more mutual stance or have him say something nicer, something that doesn’t offend the sensitive people. I don’t know.
Okay, we'll call it stereotypical thinking. Doesn't make it any less offensive or backwards, but whatever.
Oh i know. I never said it wasn’t offensive. It was of course.
Kenny is a lot like Lily. He craves control. When he says "She's staying" at the ski lodge, there's no room for a choice on Clementine's part. Sarita tries to gently correct him but Kenny's statements remain declarations, not offers. "She's staying for good." "Only if she wants." "Of course she wants to. Right, Clem?" Is he literally physically forcing her? No, but this behavior continues.
Well i agree that Kenny and Lilly were fighting for control of the motor inn and saw the world in different ways, they both wanted what was best for their families basically but i disagree somewhat with Clem. I think what he was saying at the dinner table about her staying for good was more like his way of saying he knows what’s best for the child which of course was wrong of him but given that he was a father and probably did the same thing with Duck, he looked at Clem like his daughter. He did call her by his son’s name after all. Does that make sense? I guess it’s like a parent’s control of their kid but i don’t think it was intentional manipulation.
He will constantly guilt trip Clementine: "Remember that OTHER time we had a working car and sat around on our asses, Clem?"
I don’t feel it was guilt tripping. I think he was just making a point that the last time they sat on their asses, the shit hit the fan when the bandits attacked the motel and this time he wanted to make sure something similar didn’t happen. I don’t think reminding someone of that is guilt tripping.
and antagonize the rest of the group for not agreeing with him. Don't forget the biggest one: "Look, I don't give two shits about what you people think. I got this truck going so I say where we go, and we're heading fucking North." The group won't always agree, but flat out saying, "Fuck you people. It's my way or the highway." is anti-social/cooperative to the extreme.
Well he got a truck working for everyone and no one seemed appreciative for starters hence the “they act like i just shit in their cereal” quote. I’m not saying the way he spoke to the group was great but if everyone was always talking behind your back or against you on what you think is best, would you happily sit back and accept it? I don’t think so. He speaks his mind and being an ass is his way of dealing with it. I also look deeper into the situation of how desperate Kenny was to find Wellington because time was running out for AJ with little food etc for him and no one else apart from Clem seemed to care much about the baby so his behaviour could have been fueled by that also. Nothing was stopping the group from doing what they wanted though, they could have gone their separate ways if they really didn’t want to go with him.
He didn't "volunteer" to pull over. He said "I'll pull over" out of anger, not a genuine offer. When Jane did specifically want out, he taunted her. "Running away again? What a fucking shocker!"
Ok fair enough.
That's called survivor's guilt. Yes, to Kenny that would sound very ungrateful but that's not how it is to Clementine. Remember that this option shows up after Jane tells her a story about 4 people coming down to try to help a member of their group who was already bitten, and then he bit a chunk out of an old lady's neck. So she's probably thinking, "Was it really worth it to save me, if it meant losing Lee?"
It’s not implied that Clem was thinking that due to Jane’s story though. I’m sure there is an option similar when she talks to Luke in Episode 1 in the cabin about blaming herself for Lee’s death. Well anyway, even if that were true, my point was, what Kenny said to her wasn’t a threat of violence in being an asshole, it was as i said, like a father saying he’ll spank his daughter for being naughty. He was never going to carry out what he said. I personally don’t think he would ever have physically harmed Clem intentionally.
Thanks for reading. Not intending it for it to be a big debate so i’ll respectively say I agree on some things with you but not on everything.
So your response was way, way late so I'm gonna have to gather my memory again to respond to you.
* You were right about that scene wit… moreh Arvo. I remembered it wrong. Kenny does indeed accidentally elbow Clementine as he's rearing his fist back to beat on Arvo.
* Kenny throwing her to the ground in his fight against Jane also wasn't as big of a deal as I made it because again, yeah, she was in the way of two very angry, violent people and simply getting a shove was probably the best thing that could've happened to her.
3.
Lee determinately puts everyone in danger trying to save Larry (a guy who left Lee to die in the drugstore i might add) so it’s understandable for Kenny to be pretty pissed off with Lee for that especially because Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry punched him in the face.
I may understand Kenny being angry about Lee endangering them all, but again, Lee calls him out on the fact that it's easy for … [view original content]
If I used that to justify Jane leaving the group and killing herself you would’ve told me she was still wrong for doing so, but ok.
No kid gloves, stop assuming about me. Jane didn’t owe the group anything either. If she left and didn’t come back that was fine. However, killing herself and leaving 2 kids to fend for themselves was fucking wrong and everyone knows it, even die hard Jane fans have admitted that. It was shit writing anyway so i don’t even care about that outcome with her. It should have been handled differently.
So it’s ok for him to go around getting innocent people who are on the run killed?
It wasn’t deliberate and you know it. I already said he was trying to help and the only one doing so with balls enough to try instead of allowing himself to be taken hostage or hiding away like Luke. It’s like i said, they shouldn’t have turned up in the first place, they caused it and Kenny did not owe them anything. Fuck the haters who just moan to as usual try to shit on anything Kenny related.
They invaded his home, huh? Get your facts straight and stop making things up, boy.
Ohhh deary me! So i said “invaded” and you took it literally like they were breaking in and shit right? For fucks sake, you know what i meant smart ass! They turned up at where he was living, technically they were kind of invading when snooping around trying to get in but whatever, the point is, they were responsible for the later events with Carver
Also, don’t blame them, blame Bonnie. Carver wouldn’t have known they were there if she hadn’t told him they were
Oh trust me i do blame her of course but the chances are they would have found them either way given how close they were when Clem saw them by the bridge. The gunfire killing walkers would have led them there too, not to mention when Nick shot Matthew on the bridge.
If you don’t say anything he takes the shot, even after getting walter killed.
Yes because he needs someone to stop him or get him to think/see sense, he has always been like that, hot headed. If you stay silent its the players fault he shoots anyway. Doesn’t give me a reason enough to hate him though like some snowflakes. It doesn’t change the fact either that what he did wasn’t intentional in getting them killed. He showed remorse for his mistakes which can’t be said for some people we know.
He only stopped when Sarita’s life got threatened. He only cares about those he has power over.
Ahh said like a true horrible Janiac. No he only cares about people he considers family or those he knows he can trust and at that point he realised he was facing a losing battle anyway.
Best not to continue this actually before it gets very heated. I’ll never see things from your view and vice versa so there is no point discussing this further.
You saw what happened to Mitch and heard what happened to Minnie. Mitch fought back and got killed, and Minnie wouldn’t stop resisting. If they both complied, you think they would’ve died? That’s how it’s a choice.
But if you are given a choice whether to die or join Delta it’s not really a choice is it? Unless you don’t care about dying. Sorry I’m confused as to why that is considered a choice.
In what context do you prefer him over her? Like, you’re saying you prefer Kenny on your team than Minerva, or you prefer Kenny in the game than Minerva? I’m confused
Both i guess. I’d rather have someone in my group i know i can trust instead of someone like Minerva. Trust is the most important thing in a zombie apocalypse. And I obviously prefer Kenny as a character to Minerva.
Well first of all Kenny didn’t owe any of them anything
If I used that to justify Jane leaving the group and killing herself you wou… moreld’ve told me she was still wrong for doing so, but ok.
They weren’t even his friends
So it’s ok for him to go around getting innocent people who are on the run killed?
they invaded his home and brought Carver to him
the cabin group are the reason Kenny and Sarita got taken hostage by them in the end.
They invaded his home, huh? Get your facts straight and stop making things up, boy.
Also, don’t blame them, blame Bonnie. Carver wouldn’t have known they were there if she hadn’t told him they were
so he does eventually listen to reason
If you don’t say anything he takes the shot, even after getting walter killed. He only stopped when Sarita’s life got threatened. He only cares about those he has power over.
How is it a choice to join them or die?
… [view original content]
In a way I like the fact that TT made the game's storylines vague as possible when it comes to anything that's not directly adjacent to the gameplay or anything that's not directly related to the choices you make.
It makes room for great headcanoning. The fact that we don't really what the fuck happened with Lee and the Senator means it's up to the player to construe their own interpretations which is actually fun from a personal POV. It means that most people will always have a specific viewpoint of the TWD series that's unique to their own.
The fact that TT told Fennoy personally that Lee killed his wife, but the in-game continuity doesn't show any proof of that and somewhat hints to that not happening, to me comes off as deliberate gaslighting by TT in order stir people to come up with their own interpretation. It means that nothing surrounding the Lee and senator situation is 100 percent canon.
I just looked into it and it turns out it's one of TT's many blunders with communicating plot and it's up to everyone to interpret supposidl… morey. Supposidly they told the Voice Actor of Lee, Dave Fennoy that Lee killed both the wife and senator which is why he said so in an interview. But then fans say he didn't because Lee hints to her still being alive and that he only hurt her.
But In my story I 100 percent thought in both playtrhoughs that he killed both. Found them cheating and blanked. But I guess I could have been misinterperting. It's what was always conveyed to me. The dark under tone, the secrecy. But I think I might have been wrong.
Either way he still killed a dude over something that was his wife's fault. Which is still murder and still a brash and irresponsible decision. It's something he condemned for.
He had lines and something resembling motivation before that, you know. That's just something of an extension.
It'd also help to go with him and Bonnie first instead of Jane. Which is admittedly easy not to do.
Ohhh deary me! So i said “invaded” and you took it literally like they were breaking in and shit right?
Speak what actually happened if you're trying to make clear points. Don't go using words like "Invaded" because then that leads to replies like the one I left you.
he has always been like that, hot headed.
That's turned many people away, fueled arguments, and got people killed. That's unacceptable.
If you stay silent its the players fault he shoots anyway. Doesn’t give me a reason enough to hate him though like some snowflakes
What's one more dead body to the pile, right?
No he only cares about people he considers family or those he knows he can trust
No, he only cares about those who don't disagree with him. People like him only listen to themselves and fight against you when you think differently. You can see that in S1 and S2.
But if you are given a choice whether to die or join Delta it’s not really a choice is it? Unless you don’t care about dying
Or unless you believe in your own freedom and your right to reject your enslavement, so much that you're willing to face death. That's pretty extreme, but yeah.
Both i guess. I’d rather have someone in my group I know I can trust instead of someone like Minerva.
In any case, I'd still choose Minnie. She's a devoted team player. Since when has she went against the team(Delta)?
Trust is the most important thing in a zombie apocalypse.
You need someone you can trust to listen to what you and everyone has to say.
If I used that to justify Jane leaving the group and killing herself you would’ve told me she was still wrong for doing so, but ok.
… moreNo kid gloves, stop assuming about me. Jane didn’t owe the group anything either. If she left and didn’t come back that was fine. However, killing herself and leaving 2 kids to fend for themselves was fucking wrong and everyone knows it, even die hard Jane fans have admitted that. It was shit writing anyway so i don’t even care about that outcome with her. It should have been handled differently.
So it’s ok for him to go around getting innocent people who are on the run killed?
It wasn’t deliberate and you know it. I already said he was trying to help and the only one doing so with balls enough to try instead of allowing himself to be taken hostage or hiding away like Luke. It’s like i said, they shouldn’t have turned up in the first place, they caused it and Kenny did not owe them anything.… [view original content]
I agree. It's actually pretty brilliant how season 1 unraveled. It creates a plot that the player himself really does have to interpret his own canon storyline with his core principles. It's something early TT was god tier at doing. You really did feel that your decisions changed the entire story. It was evident. Sadly the decisions became less important as time went.
I played the entire 1st season thinking Lee walked in on his wife cheating and killed them both, I don't know why I did. But I did 3 playthroughs and that was always my idealogies. Until I came here and seen people saying it was just the senator. I was so unaware. And looking back I don't recall them ever saying he killed the wife, but it was just obvious to me. I don't know what conveyed it. But just the tone and his secrecy.
In a way I like the fact that TT made the game's storylines vague as possible when it comes to anything that's not directly adjacent to the … moregameplay or anything that's not directly related to the choices you make.
It makes room for great headcanoning. The fact that we don't really what the fuck happened with Lee and the Senator means it's up to the player to construe their own interpretations which is actually fun from a personal POV. It means that most people will always have a specific viewpoint of the TWD series that's unique to their own.
The fact that TT told Fennoy personally that Lee killed his wife, but the in-game continuity doesn't show any proof of that and somewhat hints to that not happening, to me comes off as deliberate gaslighting by TT in order stir people to come up with their own interpretation. It means that nothing surrounding the Lee and senator situation is 100 percent canon.
I think it's less a matter of them actively getting him to believe that so much as another case of story details being altered over the course of the development and certain people who worked on it remembering different aspects of it. What happened with Danny the Prisoner and Alvin are other examples.
That's not to say that couldn't be the case, though.
In a way I like the fact that TT made the game's storylines vague as possible when it comes to anything that's not directly adjacent to the … moregameplay or anything that's not directly related to the choices you make.
It makes room for great headcanoning. The fact that we don't really what the fuck happened with Lee and the Senator means it's up to the player to construe their own interpretations which is actually fun from a personal POV. It means that most people will always have a specific viewpoint of the TWD series that's unique to their own.
The fact that TT told Fennoy personally that Lee killed his wife, but the in-game continuity doesn't show any proof of that and somewhat hints to that not happening, to me comes off as deliberate gaslighting by TT in order stir people to come up with their own interpretation. It means that nothing surrounding the Lee and senator situation is 100 percent canon.
Lee acted irrationally, and was charged with Murder accordingly. He had no way of knowing if the Senator knew or not, we have no way of knowing but it's pretty rare that the wife leads on that they are taken during an affair. And even if he did, Lee still acted 100 percent irrationally and killed someone over his wife's unfaithfulness. Unless it was Lee's personal friend, that Senator holds no reason to be faithful to Lee. His wife 100 percent does. If Lee killed the wife, I wouldn't care. But the Senator? And not the wife? A bit idiotic. I never got the rationale of beating up a dude who was unaware.
but when was it mentioned that the senator didn’t know about Lee? It was never confirmed that Lee’s wife kept Lee a secret from the guy she was fucking
Well yeah, I'm glad we're having a friendly discussion instead of a big fight. I appreciate it.
That is why someone else had to do something right? Kenny dealt with Larry and Lee dealt with Duck.
Determinately of course. Because Kenny can still shoot Duck if Lee tells him to. Also the boy in the attic. Since almost no one chooses this, it's interesting to see those alternate events. I liked how Kenny told Clem that Lee "helped him do the right thing" in the ski resort with this option.
The situation with Larry was very different to that of Duck. Larry wasn’t bitten, his heart gave in and he was clinically dead, moments away from turning and the group were trapped in a room with a guy who could easily overpower them due to his size. Kenny did what no one else had the balls to do to keep everyone safe otherwise they’d have died.
There's a little easter egg if you choose to help Lily though. If you do enough compressions on Larry's chest, you see his lips move just before Kenny drops the salt lick on him. Either he was reanimating or taking a revived breath. We'll never know now, but I think I agree that I don't think cardiac arrest works like that. You'd need more assistance than just manual resuscitation.
I'll also be really honest. If I were in that situation, I would've sided with Kenny too. I only did what I did to spare Clementine, and I didn't want to ruin my relationship with Lily. I just didn't have the heart to take her dad away from her.
It wasn't like Kenny was even heartless in that situation. He admitted that he cried when the family dog had to be put down but that if they were gonna survive this shit, some of them had to be willing to do the hard things.
Now with Duck, he was bitten and was dying slowly, the group had time to deal with him, they weren’t trapped, they had weapons and he was only a small boy who could be held down if necessary as they also had more people to help.
Yeah, that's really fair. One was an emergency situation and the other wasn't. There is a game over "Duck" ending though that's both morbid and a bit hilarious.
I reckon a possible reason that he says “you weren’t there for me” etc could be because the writers assume you went more down the path of being against him
Oh yeah, this was definitely more of a meta game-code problem. The same thing happens with James in the Final Season. Killing even a single walker under the wrong circumstances has James stating that "you didn't even try to spare them." However, if a walker grabs you and then you kill it, he'll be more understanding: "you killed the ones you had to. No one can blame you for that." So yeah, the writing gets weird there, because it can get a bit laughably binary.
In fact, I've complained about scenarios like these a bunch in Telltale Games. Bonnie's smug declaration that it must be nice for Clementine to be a little girl, not being asked to do a damn thing made me want to kick her head off. All because you covered Luke, instead of trying to walk across the ice to reach him. Especially when you've spent the entire game doing the group's dirty work, so for her to have the gall to say that is aggravating.
I think what he was saying at the dinner table about her staying for good was more like his way of saying he knows what’s best for the child which of course was wrong of him but given that he was a father and probably did the same thing with Duck, he looked at Clem like his daughter.
Oh he definitely did try to put himself in a fatherly role for Clementine, down to demanding that she doesn't have alcohol and being disappointed in her if she does (and to be fair, he's right. An eleven year old has no business getting tipsy!). The thing is, unlike Lee, he didn't give her nearly as much freedom or genuine respect. Kenny values loyalty above anything else, and he's needy, hence why he keeps telling Clementine she needs him on his side, to trust him and believe in him, even when his ideas are dangerously stupid or reckless. If Kenny was acting as a father, he erred on the abusive side at times. Not physically of course, but emotionally? Definitely.
I don’t feel it was guilt tripping. I think he was just making a point that the last time they sat on their asses, the shit hit the fan when the bandits attacked the motel and this time he wanted to make sure something similar didn’t happen.
No, you're right. Bad example. Here's a better one.
Clem: We should go back.
Kenny: Now Clem-
Jane: It's our best shot.
Kenny: Oh I get it. Just ganging up on Kenny now.
Clem: Kenny, come on...
Kenny: Nah, I see how this is gonna go. She's filling your head with bullshit.
This is what I mean when I say that Kenny often doesn't let Clementine think for herself, which is what Jane points out, though of course, she didn't behave any better later on.
I’m not saying the way he spoke to the group was great but if everyone was always talking behind your back or against you on what you think is best, would you happily sit back and accept it?
That's true too. Nothing seemed fair in Season Two. Everyone already had predisposed negative opinions about Kenny and it seemed that everything he did had to be picked through with a fine comb. Even me, who is looking at him critically right now, wanted to tell them several times to just leave the man alone!
It’s not implied that Clem was thinking that due to Jane’s story though. I’m sure there is an option similar when she talks to Luke in Episode 1 in the cabin about blaming herself for Lee’s death. Well anyway, even if that were true, my point was, what Kenny said to her wasn’t a threat of violence in being an asshole, it was as i said, like a father saying he’ll spank his daughter for being naughty. He was never going to carry out what he said. I personally don’t think he would ever have physically harmed Clem intentionally.
Okay, I'll admit I drew my own conclusion there. They didn't spell it out, but that's the motivation I got out of that line. It seemed more than Clementine just being a brat for the sake of an "eviltine" choice. Also, Kenny's parenting and discipline style seems very old-fashioned, almost Southern if you get what I mean. He definitely seems like the type who would be into spanking or physical punishment, and he did say that his father was a hard man but that he taught him respect.
Thanks for the reply, i realise your post was made a while back but someone bumped the thread and i happened to see it only now.
I may… more understand Kenny being angry about Lee endangering them all, but again, Lee calls him out on the fact that it's easy for him to "do what has to be done" when it doesn't involve anyone close to him, but as you saw, as soon as his son got bit, he went into denial just as Lily did. He wasn't willing to blow his kid's brains out just as Lily wasn't willing to have a salt lick dropped on her dad's skull while she was in the middle of CPR.
Of course! I mean who could kill their loved one under such circumstances? That is why someone else had to do something right? Kenny dealt with Larry and Lee dealt with Duck. I see people call out Kenny for not dealing with Duck so quickly like he did with Larry but let me just explain something first of all. The situation with Larry was very different to that of Duc… [view original content]
Speak what actually happened if you're trying to make clear points. Don't go using words like "Invaded" because then that leads to replies like the one I left you.
You know what? I am sticking to what i said on second thought, they did invade his home technically, they were on his, Walter and Sarita’s property looking around so that in a normal world is trespassing and an invasion of privacy so screw your attempts to say i was wrong with my choice of words.
That's turned many people away, fueled arguments, and got people killed. That's unacceptable.
Yet you never ever look at things from Kenny’s view do you. Like you always think it’s his fault when that is not always true. Said like a true anti Kenny spawn. Bravo. Kenny is honest and speaks his mind and sure often comes across as a “mean o’l prick” and people are like “waaaa howibble widdle man waaaa i don’t like him”. Kenny never asked anyone to stay, why didn’t they leave sooner if they were so butthurt by his straight to the point responses? And you blame him for arguments but if i was part of a debate and disagreed do you think i should keep my mouth shut to spare the feelings of others? Fuck that because again being honest is very important. I respect Kenny because he’s not some typical yes-man who just nods and agrees to every decision without having his own. Now as for “getting people killed”, i already explained that he knows he made a mistake if the player decides to let him keep shooting, he talks about regrets with Alvin especially. But if you have a loved one who is a hostage you can’t just give up and show you are weak because that more often than not is what gets you killed. I think even Lee said something similar to Clem in Season 1 in the train station how being weak and having fear is what will get you killed.
If Kenny gave himself up straight away, how does he know that Carver wouldn’t shoot him along with everyone else on the spot once rounded up? Or if he was going to kill just the new faces and take back Rebecca and the original gang? Bet you never thought of it like that did you? No because it’s Kenny. Anyone else you would have had a kind word for.
Fucking pointless because everything i said will just fall in deaf ears to you anyway so i think this should be put to bed now. There is no reasoning with someone like you.
No, he only cares about those who don't disagree with him. People like him only listen to themselves and fight against you when you think differently. You can see that in S1 and S2.
If he didn’t care at all about anyone in the group, why did he stay? Why not pull a Jane and run away? He didn’t owe them anything but he still helped the group out such as delivering Rebecca’s baby, fought alongside the group against the Russians and fixed up a truck for everyone. In the end it is a fucking zombie apocalypse and everyone should watch each other’s backs, it’s not like a normal situation. If someone has a different view, I don’t think there is anything wrong with speaking out and saying so. I think the reason for the hate for him when he disagrees is because he comes across rude to you lot and that sensitive people just can’t stand it yet if he was nice as pie when disagreeing i imagine people wouldn’t hate him then. Pretty sad to be honest. I bet if it was the other way around and another member of the group disagrees with something Kenny thought of, they won’t get any hate for it right? No because they get a free pass because it’s not Kenny.
In any case, I'd still choose Minnie. She's a devoted team player. Since when has she went against the team(Delta)?
Kenny has never outright betrayed a group and joined someone else though and that is what makes him a million times better than Minerva. I’d rather die than shoot my own sibling in cold blood. So fuck that bitch.
You need someone you can trust to listen to what you and everyone has to say.
If you have someone who is a handful, maybe not the nicest guy around but you know you can trust him because he won’t go and knife you when your back is turned or run off with supplies or does some other shit to betray you, then that person is ok in my book. He doesn’t even have to be a friend but i would trust him.
Answer me this seeing as you think Kenny is always wrong, what makes the rest of the groups opinion more valid than Kenny’s? I am not saying his opinion is better over everyone else’s but what makes their’s more valid? You say he should listen to the rest of the group but why can’t they listen to him? Who wins here? No one i guess. This is why groups often don’t work. Molly and Jane’s loner life is probably better overall.
Look this is going nowhere as usual so lets call it quits. I’d rather not spend 3 hours at a time replying endlessly to stuff we’ll never see eye to eye on
Ohhh deary me! So i said “invaded” and you took it literally like they were breaking in and shit right?
Speak what actually happened… more if you're trying to make clear points. Don't go using words like "Invaded" because then that leads to replies like the one I left you.
he has always been like that, hot headed.
That's turned many people away, fueled arguments, and got people killed. That's unacceptable.
If you stay silent its the players fault he shoots anyway. Doesn’t give me a reason enough to hate him though like some snowflakes
What's one more dead body to the pile, right?
No he only cares about people he considers family or those he knows he can trust
No, he only cares about those who don't disagree with him. People like him only listen to themselves and fight against you when you think differently. You can see that in S1 and S2.
But if you are given a choice whether to die or join Del… [view original content]
molly from season one. there are so many grounded and mature characters in the game, and then suddenly there’s a smug ninja teen who is s1ck at parkour, is as stealthy as batman, and gave her badazz weapon a name. i get that twd as a series has characters that border on being superheroes (hi michonne/jesus) but i can usually tolerate them.
Comments
Minerva
Gabe
Probably.
Leave the boy alone!
What’s wrong with killing someone who slept with your wife?
He's a fucking snitch
Minerva. She deserves soooooo much more hate.
Literally everything as far as i'm concerned. Unless they knew ahead of time and were your friend or something than maybe. But just some random? It's just primative animalistic idiotic victim misappropriation to act like someone deserves to die because they fucked a girl you love without even knowing. The girl made a free decision. Can't fault the unaware pursuant.
Say you were smashing a girl, turns out she was married and never told you. Guy walks in, MURDERS you in cold blood. Definitely you deserved it. totally rational. It's just dumb. Anyone willing to kill people over a slut anyway is crazy. If anyone deserves to die it's the wife.
but when was it mentioned that the senator didn’t know about Lee? It was never confirmed that Lee’s wife kept Lee a secret from the guy she was fucking
I just have to ask you this question. Who do you prefer now, Minerva or Kenny? You have to choose one of them
I hope you reread what you just said and think about it. It disturbs me that you think its ok to “kill” someone over an affair. Would you kill someone if they coughed near you too Melton?
Carley only ever said “you killed a state senator who was sleeping with your wife” so nothing was mentioned about him killing her too. I’m sure he can tell Hershel about his wife too
I mean, Kenny was and always has been a team player, even though he was actively playing against his teammates. Minerva just straight up switched teams. That said, I’d pick Minerva. At least her reason for working against her teammates checks out. Kenny had no reason to fight against his team(except when it came to Bonnie and Mike), and I don’t need someone like that. That’s why I said i’m killing Violet if she gets in my way again.
Yes
Trust takes a hell of a long time to come by and if someone you think may be a friend doesn’t have your back all the time in a “zombie apocalypse” why should he have yours?
Killed, it’s not murder when you don’t know for certain someone is dead. Besides, that isn’t the reason Kenny “kept score” with Lee. His relationship with Lee went sour at that point because Lee determinantly puts everyone in danger trying to save Larry (a guy who left Lee to die in the drugstore i might add) so it’s understandable for Kenny to be pretty pissed off with Lee for that especially because Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry punched him in the face.
Again i don’t blame him. Why should Lee be a dick about that when the fact is the girl couldn’t be saved and as cruel as it was, it was about survival and having her as bait helped not only them but the entire group as well.
Ben was putting everyone in danger, Kenny saw him as a threat so Lee deciding to keep someone who fucks up and a potential danger is kind of stupid in Kenny’s mind but again it’s understandable for him to have a problem with Lee about that even though I gave Ben the benefit of the doubt.
Yes because the meat locker choice greatly damages the relationship because of how serious it was. You have to remind Kenny about the past things you did for his wife and son and when he is reminded he is totally fine with you at the end of Ep4
No I wouldn’t even call that racist. They are more stereotypical views. Black people for many many years have been stereotyped as criminals, picking locks, burglars whatever. Commie/communist again is a stereotype. If Kenny was truly racist he would not have married a Belgian woman nor would he have been romantically involved with Sarita an Indian lady.
Yet they don’t have to follow what he does either. He was never going to stop anyone from going their separate ways to do what they wanted. At least he actually tried thinking of plans of what to do. More than can be said for other characters who wanted to stay put or just smile and nod to look stupid half the time.
Words, nothing more and he didn’t mean it to be fair. He even says he would pull the car over during the argument with Jane when she wanted out.
No you have completely misinterpreted that wrong. “I oughta slap you” is like a father saying he’ll spank his daughter for being naughty. Kenny says “What if Lee hadn’t gone across Georgia looking for you” and Clementine actually said “Maybe Lee shouldn’t have”. What a horrible thing to say! Lee sacrificed himself to get her back including the rest of the group so is it surprising Kenny was shocked and annoyed by her response? And anyway, sticks and stones, his threat was as i said, like a father talking to his daughter when she had misbehaved that is all it was.
He doesn’t headbutt her, he ACCIDENTALLY elbows her as he is punching Arvo and then looks horrified at what he did to her. The thing is, it was stupid of her to go near him whilst he was doing that anyway. When she asks him to stop he does so.
Well what do you expect when she is getting involved and putting herself in danger by doing so? One would argue he shoved her out of the way to keep her from danger. Jane pushes her to the ground as well so it’s no different.
Then you’re a fucking psycho mate.
Man: cough cough excuse m...
Melton stabs man just for coughing
So you have this bitch who kills her own sister in cold blood and you STILL rather her than Kenny.
Fucking hell
And you’re completely wrong, Kenny had every reason to go against his teams wishes. At least he was fucking honest about everything he ever did and you could trust the guy. Minerva on the other hand can eat shit and die. She pretends to help you then knocks Clem out and locks everyone in a cell. She also outright tries to kill Clementine. She could never ever be trusted and her reasons for switching sides was brainwash. She didn’t have a choice really. But seriously fuck that bitch
I personally never trusted her, the game’s just scripted to take that coarse. qif it were up to me I never would’ve taken my eyes off of Minerva from the moment we stepped foot on the boat. Yeah she can’t be trusted, but I expect that from someone who’s not my friend.
When Carver had everyone hostage in the cabin, I told Kenny not to shoot because Carver would kill them yet he still took the shot, and caused Walter to get killed. You’re saying Kenny had the rights to his teammates’ lives?
She did. It was either join them or die. I think she should’ve died but no one wants to so...
Yeah
Ehh he’d deserve it for being a coughing dickhead
Wow. You'd have to really hate Kenny then.
Well first of all Kenny didn’t owe any of them anything, they weren’t even his friends, they invaded his home and brought Carver to him yet he was trying to help despite that. Sure he still took the shot but Kenny has always been like that, he makes mistakes, regrets it later but i don’t think he should be hated for actually trying to do something which was more than what could be said for Luke who seemed to just hide away somewhere when his friends needed him. Later on Kenny doesn’t shoot if Clem either grabs the gun off him or tells him not to shoot so he does eventually listen to reason.
It’s like i said, the cabin group are the reason Kenny and Sarita got taken hostage by them in the end. That’s not a good enough example for me and even if it was, i am not going to hold a grudge against him.
How is it a choice to join them or die? She wouldn’t choose to die would she? Lol. So she had no choice but to join them. Point is, i would never prefer someone who kills their own sister in cold blood over someone like Kenny.
Why?
If you pick Minnie over him.
If I used that to justify Jane leaving the group and killing herself you would’ve told me she was still wrong for doing so, but ok.
So it’s ok for him to go around getting innocent people who are on the run killed?
They invaded his home, huh? Get your facts straight and stop making things up, boy.
Also, don’t blame them, blame Bonnie. Carver wouldn’t have known they were there if she hadn’t told him they were
If you don’t say anything he takes the shot, even after getting walter killed. He only stopped when Sarita’s life got threatened. He only cares about those he has power over.
You saw what happened to Mitch and heard what happened to Minnie. Mitch fought back and got killed, and Minnie wouldn’t stop resisting. If they both complied, you think they would’ve died? That’s how it’s a choice.
In what context do you prefer him over her? Like, you’re saying you prefer Kenny on your team than Minerva, or you prefer Kenny in the game than Minerva? I’m confused
Mitch
So your response was way, way late so I'm gonna have to gather my memory again to respond to you.
You were right about that scene with Arvo. I remembered it wrong. Kenny does indeed accidentally elbow Clementine as he's rearing his fist back to beat on Arvo.
Kenny throwing her to the ground in his fight against Jane also wasn't as big of a deal as I made it because again, yeah, she was in the way of two very angry, violent people and simply getting a shove was probably the best thing that could've happened to her.
3.
I may understand Kenny being angry about Lee endangering them all, but again, Lee calls him out on the fact that it's easy for him to "do what has to be done" when it doesn't involve anyone close to him, but as you saw, as soon as his son got bit, he went into denial just as Lily did. He wasn't willing to blow his kid's brains out just as Lily wasn't willing to have a salt lick dropped on her dad's skull while she was in the middle of CPR.
I can also understand his side of things with Ben and the girl in the street, but again, Ben had to call him out on the fact that he isn't the only one suffering. Even Season Two has Clementine determinately call him out on his behavior, telling him that she had to shoot Lee, so stop putting his pain before everyone else's! Kenny has always had this selfish side of him!
But it's hard for most people to pick the "Clementine is my family option" because Kenny's tirade on you feels unfair and unreasonable, which is why I saw a lot of let's players get fed up and choose the "go fuck yourself" option. Kenny claims that Lee has been looking out for himself more than his friends, which is such a load of bullshit it defies words. He asks "would you be there for me? Because there's been a lot of times where you ain't been". I wish there was an option that said: "NAME THEM." which would force him to be specific. Otherwise you're sitting there with your mouth open. JonesGotGame also made a great point in his Let's Play where he countered: "I can't even COUNT the amount of times you haven't been there for me!" It feels pretty shitty to save him from a walker grabbing him on the sidewalk in Episode 4, yet have him not even help you while a door and walkers are pinning you to the floor in the drugstore.
Okay, we'll call it stereotypical thinking. Doesn't make it any less offensive or backwards, but whatever.
Kenny is a lot like Lily. He craves control. When he says "She's staying" at the ski lodge, there's no room for a choice on Clementine's part. Sarita tries to gently correct him but Kenny's statements remain declarations, not offers. "She's staying for good." "Only if she wants." "Of course she wants to. Right, Clem?" Is he literally physically forcing her? No, but this behavior continues. He will constantly guilt trip Clementine: "Remember that OTHER time we had a working car and sat around on our asses, Clem?" and antagonize the rest of the group for not agreeing with him. Don't forget the biggest one: "Look, I don't give two shits about what you people think. I got this truck going so I say where we go, and we're heading fucking North." The group won't always agree, but flat out saying, "Fuck you people. It's my way or the highway." is anti-social/cooperative to the extreme.
He didn't "volunteer" to pull over. He said "I'll pull over" out of anger, not a genuine offer. When Jane did specifically want out, he taunted her. "Running away again? What a fucking shocker!"
However this I will not bend on:
That's called survivor's guilt. Yes, to Kenny that would sound very ungrateful but that's not how it is to Clementine. Remember that this option shows up after Jane tells her a story about 4 people coming down to try to help a member of their group who was already bitten, and then he bit a chunk out of an old lady's neck. So she's probably thinking, "Was it really worth it to save me, if it meant losing Lee?"
Yeah exactly and the sad fact is, there are people like that. Butthurt people who have never got over a few insults here and there from Kenny or whatever else he did to hurt their widdle feewings!
Thanks for the reply, i realise your post was made a while back but someone bumped the thread and i happened to see it only now.
Of course! I mean who could kill their loved one under such circumstances? That is why someone else had to do something right? Kenny dealt with Larry and Lee dealt with Duck. I see people call out Kenny for not dealing with Duck so quickly like he did with Larry but let me just explain something first of all. The situation with Larry was very different to that of Duck. Larry wasn’t bitten, his heart gave in and he was clinically dead, moments away from turning and the group were trapped in a room with a guy who could easily overpower them due to his size. Kenny did what no one else had the balls to do to keep everyone safe otherwise they’d have died.
Now with Duck, he was bitten and was dying slowly, the group had time to deal with him, they weren’t trapped, they had weapons and he was only a small boy who could be held down if necessary as they also had more people to help.
But anyway, yes I wouldn’t expect anyone to do the hard thing for their own loved one. Not at least without some guidance.
You’re right and it’s good when Ben did because Kenny then realised he had never thought about it that way, it put a new perspective on things. Kenny never used his dead family as an excuse for any sympathy though, he never asked for anyone to feel sorry for him.
I do agree, he often doesn’t think things through, he does see things one way more often than not. People like Lee and Clem need to make him see that sometimes and it showed in both seasons when Kenny eventually sees reason.
Ok fair enough i see what you’re saying. I reckon a possible reason that he says “you weren’t there for me” etc could be because the writers assume you went more down the path of being against him. What they should have done is a far more mutual stance or have him say something nicer, something that doesn’t offend the sensitive people. I don’t know.
Oh i know. I never said it wasn’t offensive. It was of course.
Well i agree that Kenny and Lilly were fighting for control of the motor inn and saw the world in different ways, they both wanted what was best for their families basically but i disagree somewhat with Clem. I think what he was saying at the dinner table about her staying for good was more like his way of saying he knows what’s best for the child which of course was wrong of him but given that he was a father and probably did the same thing with Duck, he looked at Clem like his daughter. He did call her by his son’s name after all. Does that make sense? I guess it’s like a parent’s control of their kid but i don’t think it was intentional manipulation.
I don’t feel it was guilt tripping. I think he was just making a point that the last time they sat on their asses, the shit hit the fan when the bandits attacked the motel and this time he wanted to make sure something similar didn’t happen. I don’t think reminding someone of that is guilt tripping.
Well he got a truck working for everyone and no one seemed appreciative for starters hence the “they act like i just shit in their cereal” quote. I’m not saying the way he spoke to the group was great but if everyone was always talking behind your back or against you on what you think is best, would you happily sit back and accept it? I don’t think so. He speaks his mind and being an ass is his way of dealing with it. I also look deeper into the situation of how desperate Kenny was to find Wellington because time was running out for AJ with little food etc for him and no one else apart from Clem seemed to care much about the baby so his behaviour could have been fueled by that also. Nothing was stopping the group from doing what they wanted though, they could have gone their separate ways if they really didn’t want to go with him.
Ok fair enough.
It’s not implied that Clem was thinking that due to Jane’s story though. I’m sure there is an option similar when she talks to Luke in Episode 1 in the cabin about blaming herself for Lee’s death. Well anyway, even if that were true, my point was, what Kenny said to her wasn’t a threat of violence in being an asshole, it was as i said, like a father saying he’ll spank his daughter for being naughty. He was never going to carry out what he said. I personally don’t think he would ever have physically harmed Clem intentionally.
Thanks for reading. Not intending it for it to be a big debate so i’ll respectively say I agree on some things with you but not on everything.
No kid gloves, stop assuming about me. Jane didn’t owe the group anything either. If she left and didn’t come back that was fine. However, killing herself and leaving 2 kids to fend for themselves was fucking wrong and everyone knows it, even die hard Jane fans have admitted that. It was shit writing anyway so i don’t even care about that outcome with her. It should have been handled differently.
It wasn’t deliberate and you know it. I already said he was trying to help and the only one doing so with balls enough to try instead of allowing himself to be taken hostage or hiding away like Luke. It’s like i said, they shouldn’t have turned up in the first place, they caused it and Kenny did not owe them anything. Fuck the haters who just moan to as usual try to shit on anything Kenny related.
Ohhh deary me! So i said “invaded” and you took it literally like they were breaking in and shit right? For fucks sake, you know what i meant smart ass! They turned up at where he was living, technically they were kind of invading when snooping around trying to get in but whatever, the point is, they were responsible for the later events with Carver
Oh trust me i do blame her of course but the chances are they would have found them either way given how close they were when Clem saw them by the bridge. The gunfire killing walkers would have led them there too, not to mention when Nick shot Matthew on the bridge.
Yes because he needs someone to stop him or get him to think/see sense, he has always been like that, hot headed. If you stay silent its the players fault he shoots anyway. Doesn’t give me a reason enough to hate him though like some snowflakes. It doesn’t change the fact either that what he did wasn’t intentional in getting them killed. He showed remorse for his mistakes which can’t be said for some people we know.
Ahh said like a true horrible Janiac. No he only cares about people he considers family or those he knows he can trust and at that point he realised he was facing a losing battle anyway.
Best not to continue this actually before it gets very heated. I’ll never see things from your view and vice versa so there is no point discussing this further.
But if you are given a choice whether to die or join Delta it’s not really a choice is it? Unless you don’t care about dying. Sorry I’m confused as to why that is considered a choice.
Both i guess. I’d rather have someone in my group i know i can trust instead of someone like Minerva. Trust is the most important thing in a zombie apocalypse. And I obviously prefer Kenny as a character to Minerva.
In a way I like the fact that TT made the game's storylines vague as possible when it comes to anything that's not directly adjacent to the gameplay or anything that's not directly related to the choices you make.
It makes room for great headcanoning. The fact that we don't really what the fuck happened with Lee and the Senator means it's up to the player to construe their own interpretations which is actually fun from a personal POV. It means that most people will always have a specific viewpoint of the TWD series that's unique to their own.
The fact that TT told Fennoy personally that Lee killed his wife, but the in-game continuity doesn't show any proof of that and somewhat hints to that not happening, to me comes off as deliberate gaslighting by TT in order stir people to come up with their own interpretation. It means that nothing surrounding the Lee and senator situation is 100 percent canon.
Mike because the only time he talks or is involved is when Arvo is going through something bad and that's disappointing really, in my opinion
He had lines and something resembling motivation before that, you know. That's just something of an extension.
It'd also help to go with him and Bonnie first instead of Jane. Which is admittedly easy not to do.
Speak what actually happened if you're trying to make clear points. Don't go using words like "Invaded" because then that leads to replies like the one I left you.
That's turned many people away, fueled arguments, and got people killed. That's unacceptable.
What's one more dead body to the pile, right?
No, he only cares about those who don't disagree with him. People like him only listen to themselves and fight against you when you think differently. You can see that in S1 and S2.
Or unless you believe in your own freedom and your right to reject your enslavement, so much that you're willing to face death. That's pretty extreme, but yeah.
In any case, I'd still choose Minnie. She's a devoted team player. Since when has she went against the team(Delta)?
You need someone you can trust to listen to what you and everyone has to say.
I agree. It's actually pretty brilliant how season 1 unraveled. It creates a plot that the player himself really does have to interpret his own canon storyline with his core principles. It's something early TT was god tier at doing. You really did feel that your decisions changed the entire story. It was evident. Sadly the decisions became less important as time went.
I played the entire 1st season thinking Lee walked in on his wife cheating and killed them both, I don't know why I did. But I did 3 playthroughs and that was always my idealogies. Until I came here and seen people saying it was just the senator. I was so unaware. And looking back I don't recall them ever saying he killed the wife, but it was just obvious to me. I don't know what conveyed it. But just the tone and his secrecy.
I think it's less a matter of them actively getting him to believe that so much as another case of story details being altered over the course of the development and certain people who worked on it remembering different aspects of it. What happened with Danny the Prisoner and Alvin are other examples.
That's not to say that couldn't be the case, though.
Lee acted irrationally, and was charged with Murder accordingly. He had no way of knowing if the Senator knew or not, we have no way of knowing but it's pretty rare that the wife leads on that they are taken during an affair. And even if he did, Lee still acted 100 percent irrationally and killed someone over his wife's unfaithfulness. Unless it was Lee's personal friend, that Senator holds no reason to be faithful to Lee. His wife 100 percent does. If Lee killed the wife, I wouldn't care. But the Senator? And not the wife? A bit idiotic. I never got the rationale of beating up a dude who was unaware.
Well yeah, I'm glad we're having a friendly discussion instead of a big fight. I appreciate it.
Determinately of course. Because Kenny can still shoot Duck if Lee tells him to. Also the boy in the attic. Since almost no one chooses this, it's interesting to see those alternate events. I liked how Kenny told Clem that Lee "helped him do the right thing" in the ski resort with this option.
There's a little easter egg if you choose to help Lily though. If you do enough compressions on Larry's chest, you see his lips move just before Kenny drops the salt lick on him. Either he was reanimating or taking a revived breath. We'll never know now, but I think I agree that I don't think cardiac arrest works like that. You'd need more assistance than just manual resuscitation.
I'll also be really honest. If I were in that situation, I would've sided with Kenny too. I only did what I did to spare Clementine, and I didn't want to ruin my relationship with Lily. I just didn't have the heart to take her dad away from her.
It wasn't like Kenny was even heartless in that situation. He admitted that he cried when the family dog had to be put down but that if they were gonna survive this shit, some of them had to be willing to do the hard things.
Yeah, that's really fair. One was an emergency situation and the other wasn't. There is a game over "Duck" ending though that's both morbid and a bit hilarious.
Oh yeah, this was definitely more of a meta game-code problem. The same thing happens with James in the Final Season. Killing even a single walker under the wrong circumstances has James stating that "you didn't even try to spare them." However, if a walker grabs you and then you kill it, he'll be more understanding: "you killed the ones you had to. No one can blame you for that." So yeah, the writing gets weird there, because it can get a bit laughably binary.
In fact, I've complained about scenarios like these a bunch in Telltale Games. Bonnie's smug declaration that it must be nice for Clementine to be a little girl, not being asked to do a damn thing made me want to kick her head off. All because you covered Luke, instead of trying to walk across the ice to reach him. Especially when you've spent the entire game doing the group's dirty work, so for her to have the gall to say that is aggravating.
Oh he definitely did try to put himself in a fatherly role for Clementine, down to demanding that she doesn't have alcohol and being disappointed in her if she does (and to be fair, he's right. An eleven year old has no business getting tipsy!). The thing is, unlike Lee, he didn't give her nearly as much freedom or genuine respect. Kenny values loyalty above anything else, and he's needy, hence why he keeps telling Clementine she needs him on his side, to trust him and believe in him, even when his ideas are dangerously stupid or reckless. If Kenny was acting as a father, he erred on the abusive side at times. Not physically of course, but emotionally? Definitely.
No, you're right. Bad example. Here's a better one.
This is what I mean when I say that Kenny often doesn't let Clementine think for herself, which is what Jane points out, though of course, she didn't behave any better later on.
That's true too. Nothing seemed fair in Season Two. Everyone already had predisposed negative opinions about Kenny and it seemed that everything he did had to be picked through with a fine comb. Even me, who is looking at him critically right now, wanted to tell them several times to just leave the man alone!
Okay, I'll admit I drew my own conclusion there. They didn't spell it out, but that's the motivation I got out of that line. It seemed more than Clementine just being a brat for the sake of an "eviltine" choice. Also, Kenny's parenting and discipline style seems very old-fashioned, almost Southern if you get what I mean. He definitely seems like the type who would be into spanking or physical punishment, and he did say that his father was a hard man but that he taught him respect.
Yet another pointless Kenny debate has begun. Siiigh....
Don’t join in then. At least it’s civil and not a fucking train wreck like most are
You know what? I am sticking to what i said on second thought, they did invade his home technically, they were on his, Walter and Sarita’s property looking around so that in a normal world is trespassing and an invasion of privacy so screw your attempts to say i was wrong with my choice of words.
Yet you never ever look at things from Kenny’s view do you. Like you always think it’s his fault when that is not always true. Said like a true anti Kenny spawn. Bravo. Kenny is honest and speaks his mind and sure often comes across as a “mean o’l prick” and people are like “waaaa howibble widdle man waaaa i don’t like him”. Kenny never asked anyone to stay, why didn’t they leave sooner if they were so butthurt by his straight to the point responses? And you blame him for arguments but if i was part of a debate and disagreed do you think i should keep my mouth shut to spare the feelings of others? Fuck that because again being honest is very important. I respect Kenny because he’s not some typical yes-man who just nods and agrees to every decision without having his own. Now as for “getting people killed”, i already explained that he knows he made a mistake if the player decides to let him keep shooting, he talks about regrets with Alvin especially. But if you have a loved one who is a hostage you can’t just give up and show you are weak because that more often than not is what gets you killed. I think even Lee said something similar to Clem in Season 1 in the train station how being weak and having fear is what will get you killed.
If Kenny gave himself up straight away, how does he know that Carver wouldn’t shoot him along with everyone else on the spot once rounded up? Or if he was going to kill just the new faces and take back Rebecca and the original gang? Bet you never thought of it like that did you? No because it’s Kenny. Anyone else you would have had a kind word for.
Fucking pointless because everything i said will just fall in deaf ears to you anyway so i think this should be put to bed now. There is no reasoning with someone like you.
If he didn’t care at all about anyone in the group, why did he stay? Why not pull a Jane and run away? He didn’t owe them anything but he still helped the group out such as delivering Rebecca’s baby, fought alongside the group against the Russians and fixed up a truck for everyone. In the end it is a fucking zombie apocalypse and everyone should watch each other’s backs, it’s not like a normal situation. If someone has a different view, I don’t think there is anything wrong with speaking out and saying so. I think the reason for the hate for him when he disagrees is because he comes across rude to you lot and that sensitive people just can’t stand it yet if he was nice as pie when disagreeing i imagine people wouldn’t hate him then. Pretty sad to be honest. I bet if it was the other way around and another member of the group disagrees with something Kenny thought of, they won’t get any hate for it right? No because they get a free pass because it’s not Kenny.
Kenny has never outright betrayed a group and joined someone else though and that is what makes him a million times better than Minerva. I’d rather die than shoot my own sibling in cold blood. So fuck that bitch.
If you have someone who is a handful, maybe not the nicest guy around but you know you can trust him because he won’t go and knife you when your back is turned or run off with supplies or does some other shit to betray you, then that person is ok in my book. He doesn’t even have to be a friend but i would trust him.
Answer me this seeing as you think Kenny is always wrong, what makes the rest of the groups opinion more valid than Kenny’s? I am not saying his opinion is better over everyone else’s but what makes their’s more valid? You say he should listen to the rest of the group but why can’t they listen to him? Who wins here? No one i guess. This is why groups often don’t work. Molly and Jane’s loner life is probably better overall.
Look this is going nowhere as usual so lets call it quits. I’d rather not spend 3 hours at a time replying endlessly to stuff we’ll never see eye to eye on
molly from season one. there are so many grounded and mature characters in the game, and then suddenly there’s a smug ninja teen who is s1ck at parkour, is as stealthy as batman, and gave her badazz weapon a name. i get that twd as a series has characters that border on being superheroes (hi michonne/jesus) but i can usually tolerate them.