I Just Fixed Lilly's Character. Open This If You Don't Believe Me
Episode 2. Things that Lilly could've done differently that better reflect her old self.
Lilly offers Clem her hand
Lilly to Clem: God! I am so sorry, Clementine! I didn't know it was you!
Abel hurting AJ
Lilly to Abel: Stop! I don't care what they did to you, stop hurting the boy!
Abel shoots at you. Lilly does not.
Lilly to Abel: Hold your fire! We need them alive!
Lilly comes to school peacefully
Lilly to raiders: No matter what; don't kill Clementine. I need her alive.
Lilly to Clem: I don't know what you heard about us, Clementine, but trust me, we just want to help you. We have a strong community with good people. I'd like it if you were a part of that.
Episode 3
In the cell. Lilly doesnt hurt Louis.
Lilly to Clem: 1. I didn't want things to turn out like this, Clementine. I really didn't. But if you cooperate, I can convince the others that you're trustworthy. I can protect you and AJ if you just follow my lead. 2. I'm sorry for what I did after the motel. It was a terrible mistake. Not a day goes by where I regret it. I'm sorry you had to see that. But in that moment, I thought he/she betrayed us and he/she was the one that put you in danger.
Doesn't attempt to kill James or Tenn and doesn't fight you.
Lilly to Clem: Please, Clementine! I'm only doing this to protect you! The Delta is a good place, I know you don't trust me, but I swear, when you see this place; you'll change your mind. You and AJ will have hot showers, clean clothes, beds, isn't that what you want for him? I'm trying to give you both good lives; a real chance at having a life.
Spare her. She doesn't kill James.
Lilly to Clem: I... thank you, Clementine... thank you.
I'm not saying all these options after fantastic. But some of them would've helped make her passionate character. Some of these options go against her character, but that's the point. I hated Lilly in S1, but she had some redeeming qualities. I just feel like she could've had some in S4. If you have any ideas of how she could've been made into a more compelling character compared to the one we got in S4; please, discuss.
Comments
Honestly that does sound like better writing , I mean sure original was drama and impactful but still I see where you’re coming at and I love it.
I really wish Lily‘s character development wasn’t really too much of an antagonist per say but all well in an alternate reality we have the script with telltale games still in business.?
I would've liked to have Lilly be redeemable. I mean I don't have that much of a problem with her being evil since I don't think it's as unbelievable as the people on these forums make it out to be, but giving her a redemption arc would've definitely added a lot more depth.
Im fine with some of the dialogue here but not all of it. Some of it just sounded too goody goody to be acceptable. I’d keep her reaction to seeing Clem the same. Not have her passionately apologize JUST cause it’s Clem. Her lack of speech is far more believable. You gave her too strong a reaction. Especially considering she would’ve still had her foot on Clem’s neck and would’ve only been so very apologetic having known it was Clem. I just don’t buy that instant shift.
I wouldn’t have her bring up the S1 shooting either. It has very little relevance to present situation and just serves as fanservice dialogue to me. It offers nothing to the situation in the cell.
I would’ve preferred an apology on Mitch’s death and their forced raid on the school as well as an explanation of the plan from her mouth in an attempt to have Clem understand her side. Perhaps even a story of something that tragically happened at the Delta that forced their hand. Carley and Doug do not matter right now.
My biggest issue with some of these dialogue options is that they try too hard to appeal to the good side. There’s no subtly in it. If canon Lilly tries too hard to be evil, this one tries too hard to be good.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Lilly was never this caring type character you describe, not even many years ago in s1 when the apocalypse had just started. Even if you side with her on every single choice she will still steal the RV and leave Lee and Clem behind to die. She was always portrayed as capable and pragmatic, but also secretly scared and selfish, and I think TFS did justice to her character as a whole. The Lilly I read about in your post is a fantasy.
Sorry but no, her character just isn't like that.
Lilly was never that soft
It was a nice attempt of making Lilly into a nice person but what you described there isn’t Lilly at all.
As others have already said, this isn't like Lilly at all.
Way too fanserivce-y.
I never understood the problem with fan service
Hm. It seems that most people that opened this thread didn't believe you.
I wonder why that is.
Maybe not super nice towards Lee. But Lilly smiles at Clem often. Once at the motel just before Ben shows up and one during Jolene's video. Lilly goes over to talk to her. And she asks about Clem's mom in the drugstore. Sure she may not have been nice to Lee all the time but she was never mean to Clem in S1
Not all these options are outstanding but I think it's a better Lilly than the one we got in S4
The apology comes from kicking her in the face. She was unaware it was Clem and feels shitty for her action
Well, not every option is awesome. But I feel like some of them would've fixed her a bit. She's constantly saying she's trying to protect the group in S1. Even after shooting Carely/Doug. It's not too big of a stretch to believe she'd want to protect Clem again in S4
We didn't see her nice side from Lee's perspective. But you see in some scenes in S1, Lilly has a soft spot for Clem. She smiles at her at the motel in Ep.2 and talks to her in Jolene's video. Lilly may not have liked everybody but she's had nothing against Clem. Plus, she's always going on about how she's trying to protect the group in S1. I can see her wanting to protect Clem in S4 after seeing her again. Especially is Lilly knows of a place like Delta
How is Lilly like before S4? From what I've seen; people are going off how Lilly treated Lee, not Clem. Lilly has short but sweet interactions with Clem in S1. We can't judge how she would treat Clem based on how she treated Lee
She's passionate about protecting the group in S1. She hates Kenny and Lee but she sticks around for a couple weeks after Ep.2. She only left when she was forced to. Plus the evil bitch she was in S4; she's has nice moments with Clem in Ep.2. Helping her stand, the face she gives when you said you were family. That looks like softness to me. But don't confuse softness for weakness.
I get it, but why would Lilly care so much about Clem after 8 years of seperation and after being part of a big group for probably years? Can she be nice? Probably, yeah. But the way you wrote her seems more like how someone would act who knows what happened to Clem over all these years.
It makes no sense for Lilly to act like this, not necesserily because of her character but mostly because of the circumstance sorrounding that reunion.
Probably because people think Lilly is better off being a stone cold character rather than one with emotion. She was nice to Clem in S1, I can't see her being that big of a bitch in S4. I think some of my options would've made her a more likable character in S4. Instead of the monster she is now.
I don't think she was meant to be likeable this season.
She doesn't have to do everything I described, but some of them would've made the final choice with her more of a harder one.
I'm not saying that, man. But I feel like some of these options would've given her more depth. Instead of just being a bitch that tries to kill you in every scene she's in.
You've gotta be trolling dud sad that no-one noticed
I like the idea, but that makes Lilly way too caring. I feel she should have been in a more gray area. Its hard to make a compelling villain when they are just "Im bad bro watch me cut a guys tongue out lmao."
They easily could have made something more interesting, make it so they still kidnap kids and all that but make them actually convincing in saying the Delta is actually some really good place. It adds more mystery and intrigue to it, wondering if the Delta actually is a bunch of good people and they do want the kids to live there in harmony after the war is done. Because you really cant see them as anything else other than "the bad guys" when all they do is kill and torture kids. They could have done something more gray keeping the player guessing if the Delta truly is "all bad" or not, but nope they just make Lilly over the top evil so theres no other way of seeing the Delta other than them being bad guys who are bad cuz they are.
Yeah no, lily never was this caring and never this passionate ever, Lily was written as she should be the only wrong the writers did was to give some explanation on how she became so ruthless, maybe have a conversation with clem about it, but everything else she did so far was not unrealistic....she was an asshole from the start, just like carley said about her: she's just a scared little girl and that line reminded me when she begged AJ to not kill her....so satisfying.
Like I said, my options would go against her current character because the way she is now kinda sucks. I'm thinking of ways Lilly could've been at least a sympathetic villain.
Hard to believe especially her being a leader in a community going through war and wanting kids to fight by thier side lol
That's why I listed some action and dialouge options for her; in an attempt to make her a villain that you can't help feel some sympathy for
Hm...that's weird. It almost feels like this is meant to be mockingly brown-nosing.
Can't quite put my finger on why, though.
For who?
I guess for both some of the people who take issue with how confused she is overall and especially those who somewhat understandably would've preferred a much more sympathetic portrayal overall. In other words, it kinda feels like a hard overcorrection in the opposite direction.
But really, given that you were another visual Kenny fan before this, it also primarily came across as you making fun of those people.
i think OP knows more about Lilly than the entire '' writing'' team of this crap season
No, I always kinda felt bad for Lilly in S1. I would've liked to have grown to like her in S4
No, that sounds out of character. And I am still a Lilly fan...at least the Season 1 Lilly. I have a different understanding of Lilly's motivations and mental state.
We needed to see more of her vulnerability, but not as obviously as you put it. We need to see the "scared little girl" that Carley was killed for pointing out. Now that she's a position of leadership during difficult times - she's retreated further than she ever has into the "hardass bitch" persona.
I'd go a step further and say that this "vulnerable" side of her is the reason she gets so angry at people who act scared, or point out that she's acting out because deep down she's scared herself. She wants to kill that "little girl" inside her, and anyone who acknowledges or reminds her of that side of herself.
She killed Carley for calling her out. Or, alternatively in a Doug playthrough, wanted to kill Ben for being helpless and scared.
She wanted to kill James immediately after he pointed out the very same thing Carley did [despite the fact that his skills with walkers would have ACTUALLY helped the Delta's war, her reasoning for wanting to kill him for being a loner is BS cover up because he pushed the wrong buttons and got in her nerves just like Carley]
And she wanted to kill Tenn for acting hopelessly scared, like our old pal Ben.
I hope in the final episode she FINALLY opens up if you've tried to be nice to her and kept her alive, of course. I want Clem be the one to finally reach out to that little girl inside her. I'm unable to forgive her at this point, and I don't think she DESERVES forgiveness but the players should know that she does have a conscience...even if it's buried. It's pretty obvious to me Lilly has quite a serious case of trauma over self-hatred and denial, which I think might have been buried into her head by her asshole overly-militaristic father. Larry seemed like the kind of guy who would have berated or even punished her for showing any type of weakness.
that's what I thought too he's trolled several times before this seems too bait and mocking
Like I said, it just doesn't work. You'd have to change up more than just some select scenes otherwise some of her decisions just appear conflicting and not in a good way.
If we're really trying to strike a gray area for Lilly, something like this I feel would be better.
Instead of Lilly assaulting Clem, have Abel overpower her and hold her at gun point. AJ tries to attack Abel, Lilly stops and disarms him easily and tells Abel to let her go, not yet knowing who she is, having also prior to this told Abel to hold fire (since he shot at them before the confrontation). In this situation, Abel is the one to keep an eye on due to his forceful means. Lilly is the moderator. Keeps him in check up to a point. It'll be a more of a Norma/Randall dynamic like the Michonne game, except they aren't siblings here.
Abel lets Clem go while he and Lilly takes their weapons and she gets up. Lilly looks at the hat and recognizes that it's Clementine. Keep her reaction the same. Keep their conversation mostly the same. Have her apologize for Abel's aggressiveness and that it wasn't her intention to fuck them up like that. The convo segways to the stealing kids bit to which she explains isn't the case and that it would be best to talk to Marlon, who Clem confirms to be dead, much to Lilly's dissatisfaction.
She asks Clementine to take them to the school, which she obviously disagrees to. Louis and Violet still hear the gunshot from before so they still appear to try to save Clem and AJ. Either tell them to run or attack the same way. The situation plays out similarly. Abel shoots AJ, James comes in, they go back to the school, things play out similarly towards the end.
This time, Lilly comes with her group, but leaves Abel back at the boat because he can't be trusted in that situation. Instead, she brings along Minnie, to try to force a peaceful conversation instead of a violent confrontation. Minnie pitches the safety of the Delta to them. Tenn asks about Sophie, to which she delays her response, which leads them to believe she died. The situation escalates because of this belief and the fight goes on the way we see it, instead, Tenn is taken by Minnie as well as the other canon victims. They have no captive to interrogate. (They use James for reconnaissance here)
Fast forward to the situation in the cell (Louis is fine). They talk about the Delta and what they have and do, again trying to pitch the idea that it's actually a good place. Lilly is asked about Sophie, to which she gives reluctantly and regretfully gives her Parable of the Twins speech, except Lilly doesn't come off as disrespectful to Minnie. Rather she tells the story and Minnie interrupts by saying she killed her. Sophie convinces Minnie to escape. In the process, Minnie takes the life of one of the Delta's subordinates. When the twins were caught, it had become obvious that the one who committed the murder had to die. Sophie takes the fall for Minnie and she is then commanded to execute her to prove her innocence. Minnie's guilt comes from not taking responsibility. Lilly's guilt comes from not having the ability to stop her execution (since she isn't the leader).
Have the final confrontation go down however you want it, I didn't think that far down, this was just meant to be an idea off the top.
But in this scenario, Lilly isn't the threat nor does she try to come off as the threat. She's just someone doing her job and trying to get 100% cooperation from the group to prevent another Sophie from dying recklessly, more so now since Clementine is involved. Lilly isn't the instigator nor the aggressor. It's the energy that comes from the Delta that poses the threat. Of course said story turns off Clem even more since its a "stay in line or die" kind of thing when they get to the Delta, a situation where Lilly obviously would rather stay in line than die.
So yeah, it goes deeper than just a few dialogue changes. This isn't perfect either by any means, but I feel it'd be more consistent than what you shared.
Lilly was never really redeemable tbh. She was pretty messed up by the time you parted ways in S1, no surprise she’s turned into a psycho bitch in the 7-8 years since then.
where is the leaked crying broken Lilly , or was this scraped aswell?
Oh yeah, what the hell was that about?!
Nah,this wasn't really a leak here's what Kent said about this @DabigRG