You said in a previous post that Lilly was being "good" in the drugstore. So I quoted Lilly in the drugstore - showing that she was acting like a bitch. Like Clem said to Vi, "She's horrible. Always has been."
I just can't find anything good or positive she's done. Even after reading previous posts. Helping Lee - at the dairy and the motel shootout - that's about it
I just can't find anything good or positive she's done. Even after reading previous posts. Helping Lee - at the dairy and the motel shootout - that's about it
She's more angry that they took a risk trying to save people when they are effective surrounded by walkers.
Not to mention she didn't exactly look outside of know exactly who was out there.
She didn't want Carely/Glenn to leave the drugstore - meaning she was fine with letting kids die. Plus, she wanted to throw Duck out of the drugstore after he got "bit."
I said right back at the start of episode 1 that bringing Lilly back is a bad idea and i was right. I knew she was coming back due to the obvious options we had to choose if we saved Doug or Carley or left Lilly behind or not. I knew back then that they were strange choices to ask and had to be because they would be relevant. I noticed that the choice of if we gave up AJ or not to New Frontier didn’t have any affect though so I don’t know why that choice was even there?
But anyway yeah it was a shame they brought Lilly back. Never knowing what happened to her was the best thing they could have done. With the new writers writing her character it was always going to be a shambles. And don’t get me started with bringing back Eddie for 5 seconds! That really pissed me off. Of all 4 Seasons, that was probably the most pathetic thing they did for “fan service”. More like “slap in the face service”.
Villains rarely make a story good for me, and TWD is no exception. Lilly served her purpose of stirring things up and resulting in a lot of death. Would a new character have done a better job? I highly doubt it. In fact, Minnie stole the show from her and she's far less believable as a villain.
they did it just to go around saying a season 1 character returns
And if they didn't bring a character back then people would just be complaining about them using a new character when there were so many unknown status characters to explore. People will always find a reason to complain and people have been wanting to see Lilly again literally since s1.
Her being so evil that you cant even take is serious anymore
On the contrary I think she is evil enough to where we feel like we have to take her seriously. She is nowhere near the cartoonishly evil levels of someone like Joan or even episode 3 Carver, I really don't think her motivations are as dodgy as you claim.
barely using the dynamic of we knew each other before
Correct me if I'm wrong but she literally brings up their past in every scene that she is in.
no explanation of really how she ended up where she was in any way at all for the player to even try and figure out through clues
Ok I'm sorry but this has to be the most nitpicking complaint ever. We know she was alone for a long time, found a community worth fighting for, and she is doing horrible things in the name of this war. How would it make the story better at all if she said "Oh yeah, I lived in a factory for a while, all my groups died, until Delta didn't!!". It's completely irrelevant and once again people would just find a reason to complain about it, saying it is irrelevant or a bad explanation of how she survived.
Lilly's return was honestly the most disappointing part of the story. Feels like such a big miss. At no part does it feel like she needed to… more be included, more so they did it just to go around saying a season 1 character returns.
They just handled her so poorly. Her being so evil that you cant even take is serious anymore, followed by her actions always conflicting with her goals. Also barely using the dynamic of we knew each other before was disappointing. Also how she had so little screen time, no explanation of really how she ended up where she was in any way at all for the player to even try and figure out through clues, then she just dies or fucks off on a boat, just really dumb and disappointing.
Will you shut up? I know you like to ignore my comments and have an inferiority complexion, but dear, you are no better than anyone here. Have a good day! xo
I think most people would prefer a lack luster new villain than bringing someone back, ruining their old character, and making them a lackluster villain.
Its hard to take a villain like Lilly seriously especially when she starts saying shit like how the Delta is actually super nice but then show awful and totally evil they are. It doesn't even make the player think like "damn what if Delta isn't even super bad" because its so obvious they are just over the top evil. Its also really hard to take her seriously when shes doing shit like "I really need to kidnap kids" and then when she encounters Tenn in episode 3 she tries to shoot him in the head right after disarming him. Lilly does so much stupid shit that is always conflicting with what her goal is that it becomes a joke. (omg i push my head to gun to let everyone know how BAD and COOL i am hell yeah EPIC)
Key word is barely. They could have done way more with their past and added more callbacks to events she was involved with in season 1. Instead we get her just give that exposition of "I killed Carly and Doug and took RV" "Lee disappointed in you homie" "Larry made ice cream melt" and then just going "We was fam once yo" if Clem says it. So congrats we have a whole 4 things that utilize the past that we cant go more in depth. We also cant bring up the past to Lilly until she does (besides just saying "we was family" which aint much chief.) And even then the Carly/Doug thing is just used for that reintroduction just so she says something about the past, really not important to the story as a whole.
They dont give any depth with it is my problem. Talk about Larry? Cant say you were happy Kenny killed him to get under her nerves. Cant say anything about how Kenny the man she hated survived with Clem for such a long time to get at her either. Cant even mention if Lee would help Lilly find out whole stole the supplies. Cant even say it really was Ben who stole it. Cant even use a parallel for how the bandits ruined the motor inn and how Lilly is doing the same to try to make her reason. Theres just so many missed chances to do something but they dont, and like I said we cant even bring up the past to her unless she says something first.
And last no one is asking Lilly to give her life story to Clem. But there is 0 explanation of how she ended up the way she is. No subtle hints for the player to figure out on their own, nothing. If they are going to bring back a character, they need to give justification for why they are bringing that character back, and they dont with Lilly. At not one point in this game can you honestly go "Yeah I really see why Lilly was brought back, the story wouldnt be the same without her!" Theres nothing to justify her inclusion, they dont even give the smallest backstory to add even the smallest bit of justification for her inclusion. Like fucks sake change her "two twin" monlouge to talking about herself finding the Delta and rising up the ranks, and how at first she thought it wouldnt be the best life, but "Look at her now" type of shit. But they dont cuz "uhh lilly in season 1 so we dont need to develop her anymore lmao" I dont remember "wow I wish this antagonist wasnt shit and was somewhat well done" was nitpicking.
they did it just to go around saying a season 1 character returns
And if they didn't bring a character back then people would just b… moree complaining about them using a new character when there were so many unknown status characters to explore. People will always find a reason to complain and people have been wanting to see Lilly again literally since s1.
Her being so evil that you cant even take is serious anymore
On the contrary I think she is evil enough to where we feel like we have to take her seriously. She is nowhere near the cartoonishly evil levels of someone like Joan or even episode 3 Carver, I really don't think her motivations are as dodgy as you claim.
barely using the dynamic of we knew each other before
Correct me if I'm wrong but she literally brings up their past in every scene that she is in.
no explanation of really how she ended up where she was in any way at all for the player to e… [view original content]
Will you shut up? I know you like to ignore my comments and have an inferiority complexion, but dear, you are no better than anyone here. Have a good day! xo
I'm still disappointed I couldn't tell her about Kenny, lol. Especially when she fled on a boat, defeated and a humiliated, that would've been the perfect moment.
Bumping this because nothing else is happening and this trend came to mind
While I'm very much in the majority that dislikes that this concept(s) happened in the way it did and ultimately disapproved of it being a thing, is it weird or fitting that I also had a hard time caring about what's actually done in the game?
Bumping this because nothing else is happening and this trend came to mind
While I'm very much in the majority that dislikes that this co… morencept(s) happened in the way it did and ultimately disapproved of it being a thing, is it weird or fitting that I also had a hard time caring about what's actually done in the game?
Well we might get a DLC sooner the. Expected, considering The fact the cast of both Clementine and Lee where shown on Instagram is hinting a DLC or Wolf Among Us.
Well we might get a DLC sooner the. Expected, considering The fact the cast of both Clementine and Lee where shown on Instagram is hinting a DLC or Wolf Among Us.
Over the past while it's been, I remembered something else regarding why them reworking Lily for TFS bothered me: Lily was originally supposed to be the minor antagonist from the TV Show.
According to her audition page, this was supposed be an origin story for that character and as such, her character arc and background was initially gonna lean more on the negative and even violent side. Telltale adjusted that during the actual development process to make her fall more tragic, thankfully, but they stuck with the intended crossover element despite clearly putting a good degree of work into her. But then Mr. Kirkman decided to write novels about Lily Caul that apparently involved a different backstory. ThusTelltale's honoring of the tie-in was rendered moot and TWDG!Lily was ultimately set up to lose only to fall into a weird limbo.
This of course led to many people feeling her character was wasted and wishing for that to fixed;. Even Telltale themselves apparently wanted to subvert this waste as soon as they caught wind, as Gavin Hammond revealed that they planned to capitalize on that during the final episodes of Season 1. They ended up not doing that then, obviously, but the point remains that people wanted her back. And it makes sense, given how she was one of the most complex characters in the series and also had a complicated connection with Clementine--both due to being a main character for at least 50% of Season 1. Overall, Lily was easily one of the most requested returning characters for a long long time.
And then The Final Season happened. To be frank, this game seemingly had a smell brewing around it from get-go due to coming after A New Frontier and thus implicitly feeling like desperate course correction. Unfortunately, Lily(or Lilith, appropriately) was arguably the most blatant aspect of this polluted climate. This is primarily borne of a combination of both the suspicious timing and the nature of the reveal. In the trailer for Suffer the Children, she was shamelessly unveiled with the notion of being the main antagonist of "The End of Clementine's Story" by giving a Breaking Speech and standing behind a fucking fire.
Almost everyone, regardless of their motivation and viewpoint, took one look at this and saw it as an attempt to get attention in order bring back as many people as possible. Without knowledge of how that played out, the most obvious takeaway is how Johnnie Come Lately was actually implemented. Generally speaking, it seems that many observed that Lilith among the other Delta was superficial and poorly handled; there's probably only a few areas that one can disagree with that assessment. Presumably clocking in at roughly 25 minutes(give or take determinate variations), it's also been argued that she is barely in the story for her supposed importance--much like other villains in the series.
But with all those fruity statistics out of the way, let's get back to the real issue: bringing Lily back for TFS. The way this was done in itself was a pointless move of arrogance. They took one of most interesting characters that was available to be brought back into the story(which isn't a long list, mind you) and made her a throwaway bad gal that's missing on being two-dimensional. Why even bother at that point, aside from the tertiary out of universe 'benefits?' Why bring back a character that was initially going to be forced into evil by mandate just to make them villainous by your own freedom?
Comments
Nooo, I said she DID/SAID something that can be counted as good or rather positive there.
I just can't find anything good or positive she's done. Even after reading previous posts. Helping Lee - at the dairy and the motel shootout - that's about it
Huh. One'd wonder why.
K.
She's more angry that they took a risk trying to save people when they are effective surrounded by walkers.
Not to mention she didn't exactly look outside of know exactly who was out there.
To bad I didn’t tell her Ben was the reason You went insane.
Technically it was Kenny, but Ben definitely made her snap.
I wanted to rub it in on her face about it though.
Keeping this miserable place open is pointless.
Technically Kenny and Lee (determinant)
I said right back at the start of episode 1 that bringing Lilly back is a bad idea and i was right. I knew she was coming back due to the obvious options we had to choose if we saved Doug or Carley or left Lilly behind or not. I knew back then that they were strange choices to ask and had to be because they would be relevant. I noticed that the choice of if we gave up AJ or not to New Frontier didn’t have any affect though so I don’t know why that choice was even there?
But anyway yeah it was a shame they brought Lilly back. Never knowing what happened to her was the best thing they could have done. With the new writers writing her character it was always going to be a shambles. And don’t get me started with bringing back Eddie for 5 seconds! That really pissed me off. Of all 4 Seasons, that was probably the most pathetic thing they did for “fan service”. More like “slap in the face service”.
Villains rarely make a story good for me, and TWD is no exception. Lilly served her purpose of stirring things up and resulting in a lot of death. Would a new character have done a better job? I highly doubt it. In fact, Minnie stole the show from her and she's far less believable as a villain.
You had the opportunity to kill her in EP3, dummy.
Your fault.
TT don't give you second chances.
And if they didn't bring a character back then people would just be complaining about them using a new character when there were so many unknown status characters to explore. People will always find a reason to complain and people have been wanting to see Lilly again literally since s1.
On the contrary I think she is evil enough to where we feel like we have to take her seriously. She is nowhere near the cartoonishly evil levels of someone like Joan or even episode 3 Carver, I really don't think her motivations are as dodgy as you claim.
Correct me if I'm wrong but she literally brings up their past in every scene that she is in.
Ok I'm sorry but this has to be the most nitpicking complaint ever. We know she was alone for a long time, found a community worth fighting for, and she is doing horrible things in the name of this war. How would it make the story better at all if she said "Oh yeah, I lived in a factory for a while, all my groups died, until Delta didn't!!". It's completely irrelevant and once again people would just find a reason to complain about it, saying it is irrelevant or a bad explanation of how she survived.
Will you shut up? I know you like to ignore my comments and have an inferiority complexion, but dear, you are no better than anyone here. Have a good day! xo
I think most people would prefer a lack luster new villain than bringing someone back, ruining their old character, and making them a lackluster villain.
Its hard to take a villain like Lilly seriously especially when she starts saying shit like how the Delta is actually super nice but then show awful and totally evil they are. It doesn't even make the player think like "damn what if Delta isn't even super bad" because its so obvious they are just over the top evil. Its also really hard to take her seriously when shes doing shit like "I really need to kidnap kids" and then when she encounters Tenn in episode 3 she tries to shoot him in the head right after disarming him. Lilly does so much stupid shit that is always conflicting with what her goal is that it becomes a joke. (omg i push my head to gun to let everyone know how BAD and COOL i am hell yeah EPIC)
Key word is barely. They could have done way more with their past and added more callbacks to events she was involved with in season 1. Instead we get her just give that exposition of "I killed Carly and Doug and took RV" "Lee disappointed in you homie" "Larry made ice cream melt" and then just going "We was fam once yo" if Clem says it. So congrats we have a whole 4 things that utilize the past that we cant go more in depth. We also cant bring up the past to Lilly until she does (besides just saying "we was family" which aint much chief.) And even then the Carly/Doug thing is just used for that reintroduction just so she says something about the past, really not important to the story as a whole.
They dont give any depth with it is my problem. Talk about Larry? Cant say you were happy Kenny killed him to get under her nerves. Cant say anything about how Kenny the man she hated survived with Clem for such a long time to get at her either. Cant even mention if Lee would help Lilly find out whole stole the supplies. Cant even say it really was Ben who stole it. Cant even use a parallel for how the bandits ruined the motor inn and how Lilly is doing the same to try to make her reason. Theres just so many missed chances to do something but they dont, and like I said we cant even bring up the past to her unless she says something first.
And last no one is asking Lilly to give her life story to Clem. But there is 0 explanation of how she ended up the way she is. No subtle hints for the player to figure out on their own, nothing. If they are going to bring back a character, they need to give justification for why they are bringing that character back, and they dont with Lilly. At not one point in this game can you honestly go "Yeah I really see why Lilly was brought back, the story wouldnt be the same without her!" Theres nothing to justify her inclusion, they dont even give the smallest backstory to add even the smallest bit of justification for her inclusion. Like fucks sake change her "two twin" monlouge to talking about herself finding the Delta and rising up the ranks, and how at first she thought it wouldnt be the best life, but "Look at her now" type of shit. But they dont cuz "uhh lilly in season 1 so we dont need to develop her anymore lmao" I dont remember "wow I wish this antagonist wasnt shit and was somewhat well done" was nitpicking.
And what color complexion is that?
I'm still disappointed I couldn't tell her about Kenny, lol. Especially when she fled on a boat, defeated and a humiliated, that would've been the perfect moment.
Hardy har.
Bumping this because nothing else is happening and this trend came to mind
While I'm very much in the majority that dislikes that this concept(s) happened in the way it did and ultimately disapproved of it being a thing, is it weird or fitting that I also had a hard time caring about what's actually done in the game?
No because yet again: the final season sucked.
Well we might get a DLC sooner the. Expected, considering The fact the cast of both Clementine and Lee where shown on Instagram is hinting a DLC or Wolf Among Us.
As I said before: they are just milking the series for no reason.
Over the past while it's been, I remembered something else regarding why them reworking Lily for TFS bothered me: Lily was originally supposed to be the minor antagonist from the TV Show.
According to her audition page, this was supposed be an origin story for that character and as such, her character arc and background was initially gonna lean more on the negative and even violent side. Telltale adjusted that during the actual development process to make her fall more tragic, thankfully, but they stuck with the intended crossover element despite clearly putting a good degree of work into her. But then Mr. Kirkman decided to write novels about Lily Caul that apparently involved a different backstory. ThusTelltale's honoring of the tie-in was rendered moot and TWDG!Lily was ultimately set up to lose only to fall into a weird limbo.
This of course led to many people feeling her character was wasted and wishing for that to fixed;. Even Telltale themselves apparently wanted to subvert this waste as soon as they caught wind, as Gavin Hammond revealed that they planned to capitalize on that during the final episodes of Season 1. They ended up not doing that then, obviously, but the point remains that people wanted her back. And it makes sense, given how she was one of the most complex characters in the series and also had a complicated connection with Clementine--both due to being a main character for at least 50% of Season 1. Overall, Lily was easily one of the most requested returning characters for a long long time.
And then The Final Season happened. To be frank, this game seemingly had a smell brewing around it from get-go due to coming after A New Frontier and thus implicitly feeling like desperate course correction. Unfortunately, Lily(or Lilith, appropriately) was arguably the most blatant aspect of this polluted climate. This is primarily borne of a combination of both the suspicious timing and the nature of the reveal. In the trailer for Suffer the Children, she was shamelessly unveiled with the notion of being the main antagonist of "The End of Clementine's Story" by giving a Breaking Speech and standing behind a fucking fire.
Almost everyone, regardless of their motivation and viewpoint, took one look at this and saw it as an attempt to get attention in order bring back as many people as possible. Without knowledge of how that played out, the most obvious takeaway is how Johnnie Come Lately was actually implemented. Generally speaking, it seems that many observed that Lilith among the other Delta was superficial and poorly handled; there's probably only a few areas that one can disagree with that assessment. Presumably clocking in at roughly 25 minutes(give or take determinate variations), it's also been argued that she is barely in the story for her supposed importance--much like other villains in the series.
But with all those fruity statistics out of the way, let's get back to the real issue: bringing Lily back for TFS. The way this was done in itself was a pointless move of arrogance. They took one of most interesting characters that was available to be brought back into the story(which isn't a long list, mind you) and made her a throwaway bad gal that's missing on being two-dimensional. Why even bother at that point, aside from the tertiary out of universe 'benefits?' Why bring back a character that was initially going to be forced into evil by mandate just to make them villainous by your own freedom?