Issues with nudity (episode 2)
Hi Telltale. I loved the first episode of TWAU. It's truly inspiring, exciting, and very original.
I loved everything about it until the second episode trailer, when some female nudity was seen outside an area. I think that nudity is an easy way to earn a mature rating, and I feel like it's unnecessary. The game is dark and smart without being obscene and blatantly immature. That is what I loved about your many series. But having nudity for the sake of nudity seems immature and pointless (much like GTAV or others) to character development or story. Please, will you consider keeping everything clothed? Maybe that content was before a final build (since it's rate mature for only partial nudity)?
I just love this dark fantasy world and I want it, in my mind, to stay as smart and truly entertaining as possible. Thanks for your input everyone, and telltale!
Comments
There is nothing wrong with Nudity and there is nothing immature about having nudity. You do not even know the context, so how can you say it's immature?
And going by the trailer for episode two, there isn't any full on nudity anyway. What are you talking about?
It's after you complete the episode and the trailer comes up for "next time on." I didn't say it was immature, just silly to have it for the sake of earning a mature rating. If there is no point to it, doesn't build the world, change characters, develop the story, then it's just there for the sake of earning a mature rating.
I don't know the context, but it's also not that hard to put clothes on a character model. Especially since this is a linear narrative game, being forced into the content seems unfair. I sure hope it's minimal.
Well its only logical considering Bigby goes to a pimp house in this. That's what it would be like. Its not there for the sake of being there. Its there because that's how it is.
Uh...you do remember seeing a hooker's decapitated head lying on the steps, right? I don't think they needed to "earn" that mature rating.
In the scene with the nude woman, the guy Bigby was talking to was a pimp and they appeared to be in an alley behind a strip club or a brothel. Nudity's kind of expected in that setting. It's not like they shoved it in your face. She was just kinda...there. Naked. Because she's a stripper/prostitute and that's her job.
I just hope that it treats it maturely enough, without flaunting it like crazy. I'm okay with that. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
So a game becomes immature if a pair of boobs get shown on the screen?
But i'll give you this with the games current graphics and artsyle a full nude scene can look kinda weird lol, guess we will have to wait and see.
I guess it really depends on how much there is. If it's a ridiculous level (GTA V) then it just would feel there to be there for the pervs. If there is a purpose (and only one brief scene) then it could just be building the world (overall creating a sense of depravity of humanity and the lowness of society).
I love it when games utilize tools that may be controversial to build a world, but I sure hope it is delicately approached (exploitation of women). Human trafficking a serious issue. I'm here for the intense noir murder mystery, not that.
I think the mention of human trafficking is a bit exagerated. Telltale's gritty, but not that gritty, and everything they do is related to story/character/world building.
It was part of a trailer for eps. 2, so we don't know the exact context behind the scene, which could end at that location/scene, but since prostitution was briefly part of eps.1, then it's more likely relating to prostitution ( ie: hence the mention of a fable having to resort to it for money).
I don't think it would make the game any less 'dark and smart' just because a pair of boobs is shown, in fact, it makes it more true to form and sticks with the grit they are aiming for. Also, I think boobs in TWAU (or videogames period) is the least controversial subject, I would have went with the decapitated heads, but that's just me (which I still loved- total shocker!)
Well I did not even notice what you were talking about until the third time I played episode 1, so I am going to say its not like they are forcing you to look nowhere else but, its looks low key and in the background.
I´m from germany and the situation here is that violence is rated far worse than sexuality, not to mention nudity. The game is dark and smart, as you mentioned. Guess its the social values I was raised with: I really don´t see why sexuality should be more offending than beating the shit out of the woodsman and pocking an axe in his backhead. Not that I vote agains violence in a mature game like twau, but I wouldn´t vote agains nudity or even pornography either. Appart from that you have strong language, a really dystopic enviroment where sympathic people just die and everyone is an asshole, and drug abuse (Wanna have fun? Drink a shot every time someone lights a cigarette in twau
). But thats allright for these kinds of, as mentioned, dystopic games. Thats also why i dont really understand your problems with GTA5. Shooting cops, taking drugs, playing a psychopath... but there is nudity in strip clubs in a game that artfully displays social decay in the modern world. Yeah, GTA5 is ridicolous when it comes to sexuality. When I shoot somebody, do a real harm, no problem. Sometimes theres even a slowmo. But when I fuck somebody with her approval its censored. Thats far more ridicolous in this kind of game. Then again, the game displays american society in a sarcastic way. Under this circumstance the pixeling is somehow funny and legit. But twau doesnt follow that sarcastic way. Its the right place for sexuallity but definitely not the right place for fully clothed strippers. All in all, I´ve got really big troubles understanding the priority that violence and torture in computergames are allright but sexuallity isnt. In my opinion, both are legit in a game from matures for matures if it fitts in the setting.
"I´m from germany and the situation here is that violence is rated far worse than sexuality, not to mention nudity. "
As it should be. You see things like this all the time on IMDB message boards. Someone'll post about Saw or something with "Is there nudity in this?" like they're concerned by the possibility, but apparently completely at ease with horrific violence.
First of all I want to say I'm not bashing America, I've lived in Arizona for the past 8 years and love it, I've have meet many brilliant and amazing people here but the media and a part of the population have a strange warped view towards sex and nudity. When it comes to television and other forms of entertainment extreme violence is much more accepted over anything that might be considered sexually provocative.
I don't see a problem with having nudity in this series, as long as it's tasteful but I think Telltale has class and would only use it to set up the atmosphere.
Exactly. As long as it's tasteful.
My main problem with it is that it's exploiting women purely for their sexuality. There aren't any major female roles in GTA V, which would have been interesting. Women in games are often used that way (sex appeal), and that's what I have a problem with. Glorifying it should be something that should be frowned upon (clubs in GTA V). Sexuality is a beautiful, God given thing, but shouldn't be abused as a method to be more "mature."
(ok, enough about GTA V, I didn't really like the game, just an easy comparison).
I guess it might be funny for you and other gamers, but to me I think it's just weirdly inappropriate. Gamers are frowned upon in current society, and the last thing we need is a bunch of man babies making the situation worse. I think the violence issue matters in context, though.
Thanks everyone for the input, I'm curious what some level headed adult gamers have to say.
It truly amazes me the things people get bothered by. Its a mature game so nothing should be off limits.
It looks like Bigby is visiting Faith's pimp so if they are at a brothel of some sort there might be naked ladies walking around. In context, it makes sense. I dont think they are doing anything just for the sake of getting a mature rating. I would think the language and violence would be enough for that.
Sorry, I just renamed the thread, thinking that "For the love all that is good, please Telltale consider this [episode 2]" was far too long AND gave the forumites not the slightest hint as to the topic of the thread.
As I stated in another thread, the story must provide a reason for showing nudity. If the main character goes to a brothel, the questions you must ask yourself are: Is that really necessary for the narrative? So women are forced to offer their bodies for money in this society of Fables, is it really necessary to dwell on that info? Do we really need this visit to intensify this awareness and shock?
But as soon as you've accepted these plot points, you're good to go. Because IF the protagonist goes to a brothel/strip club, NOT showing naked bodies would be completely prude.
edited because I replied to the wrong person. Sorry about that.
Well said, friend. I understand where you're coming from. If done tastefully, I have no issue with nudity. I don't know what it is with our attitudes here in the states(I'm guilty of this kneejerk reaction myself at times) where it's seen as ok to be extremely violent in a game but get a strange uneasy feeling in our guts when something that I believe to be private on display in a game. It's a type of weird disconnect between knowing which is worse versus some unknown emotional kneejerk reaction. I can be watching a movie that has gun violence with my girls, but the second someone comes on scene that is showing any unmentionables I start feeling really strange and uncomfortable because they are in the room with me. I'm guessing that it has something to do with our puritanical upbringing(please don't take this as any type of slight as none is intended in any way). It's a funny society we live in.
LOL so people aren't disturbed by the chopped heads and dead bodies in the game but are severely annoyed because there is nudity? lol again.
I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. It is a weird disconnect. I trust telltale to handle this maturely!
it would be a bit odd to go to a strip club and not see nudity, but yeah there doesn't need to be long lingering shots of the nudity or a "look at boobies" option, but really the maturity level depends more on the viewer/player than the content, for the same content one person could be like "OMG, boobies,boobies,boobies!!" and another can be like "I'm in a strip club investigating a crime, now, where is the person i am looking for?" telltale can't decide on how maturely people are going to react to nudity, that's all on the gamer.
It's a tightrope act.
Except the only women that show any "nudity" is the strippers, which makes sense because you are at a strip club and even then they are just topless.
Considering all the violence in GTA, it weird that you focus on the nudity.
You are also wrong, there are several major roles in GTA V. Amanda,Patricia Madrazo, Tanisha, to name a few.
Dude... they dropped F-Bombs in episode 1, less than a handful gets you an R rating in the cinema.
These are the ESRB descriptors for The Wolf Among Us:
Believe me, the Mature rating would be there without the partial nudity! You would see all of those things just in the first trade of the Fables comic series, so it's all faithful to the licence.
Why is their even a thread on this. For realz though nudity in them game or nudity not in the game does it actually effect how much any one enjoys the game? Aint no body got time for dat.
I write what I have already in the other thrad:
It is necessary. Seems like a strip club to me in the episode 2 preview. Ever seen a strip club without nipples? It is a dark, brutal game. Gore and splatter is okay, but some gorgeous female curves aren't? What's wrong with you guys and those double standards. Just don't make a big fuss about that one. I'm sure there won't be a lot of nudity in this game.
Here in Germany brutality is way more critical reviewed than nuditiy. In fact there are beaches (not everyone but a lot) in our country where you can walk around complete nude and nobody cares.
you americans know that the usa is the country where the most pr0n-movies are being produced, dont you?
My only issue with the nudity is why wasn't it in
episode 1!
As a woman it didn't bother me in the least bit, I trust Telltale to take the 'tasteful' route with this.
This is a DARK fantasy game, you've got to be ready (or at least a little bit ready) for things you might not be comfortable with. For me, all this violence, brutality, etc, drag me in to the story even more.
A little bit of booby shouldn't distract you from the awesome story!
I don't see why this is a problem, given the source material. The comic series that this game is based on doesn't shy away from nudity, sex, violence, or profanity. It doesn't glorify those things, but it is a dark and mature series and so this is a dark and mature game. I don't see the cartoon nudity as the game trying to "earn" a mature rating as you put it, I see it as the game treating these things in the same manner that they are treated in the books. Basically, sometimes nudity happens, it's not a big deal. If they made it all squeaky clean it wouldn't be Fables.
How the F*** can you have problems with nudity? Don't make this 7+ please! There are freaking heads rolling around and you talk about nudity. Please, grow up or go play something else.
So we are calling the wolf before seeing any nudity, without even knowing context?
Just no, no and no.
In ep1 one character was hit in the head with the axe (and kick for good measure) and possibly riping the arm off, not to mention physical torture. This is already extreme. Nudity in comparison is soft stuff. Since standards are already set high.
In my culture nudity is more tolerable than violence. Since most people will get naked at some point, while (lucky) violence is experience of few.
And this Hollywood aproach with "yes you can kill bad guys, and use some casual violence, but sex.... only with pants on" is more laughtable...untill you realise how hypocritical it is.
This is my petpevee. That for example in mass effect the sex scene is with pants on, but in the same time in last part female characters got some plastic surgery and suggestive outfit. That what inmature means.
And the WAU is quite honest in what we can expect. Violence, Drugs, Nudity... are all part of the world which is far from happy ever after. We already know that Faith was a working girl and Woody dealt with her. We have mysterious Pimp (and i have some violence for him already :-) ) who probably dosnt work in flower shop. So yes, there are naked people in this world!
If it's then it will be in the rating I think it's a rule that a dlc must fit the rating label and the trailers the the final say as seen in the walking dead
Neon, a mature person should be able to handle a little nudity without whining about it. Nudity isn't abnormal, draping your body in cloth and animal skin is far stranger than just going about in your natural state if you really think about it. We are the only species that does this, and American's are one of the few culture's that get so worked up about nakedness. Your values seems a little Puritanesque, and while it is your right to have those values, I for one would rather that you expressed your values by not purchasing things that offend you, instead of pleading with the game developers to force your values upon everyone else.
"In my culture nudity is more tolerable than violence. Since most people will get naked at some point, while (lucky) violence is experience of few. And this Hollywood aproach with "yes you can kill bad guys, and use some casual violence, but sex.... only with pants on" is more laughtable...untill you realise how hypocritical it is."
I don't know what your culture is, but I wish my culture would follow that approach.
Heavy Rain?
There's definitely more than one little "blip" of nudity. A character strips of all things! But that doesn't take away from the fact that the game is a prime example of great and emotional story-driven games.
I can think of so many "smart and truly entertaining" movies, TV shows, comic books, novels that have not only nudity scenes, but sex scenes...
Neoncloudff, I wonder what you consider smart and truly entertaining if you eliminate everything that has nudity in it, your list must be quite short and mostly comprising of kids' entertainments - which can be smart and entertaining indeed, but if you're starting to play games for grown-ups like TWAU, you might continue to broaden your horizons and consider other stuff than Disneys when it comes to other cultural products like movies and books.
About your use of the word "obscene" : beautiful human-sized bare breasts are not obscene. The Venus de Milo and so many Antique and Renaissance statues of females with bare breasts are in no way obscene, but are rather the paramount of art dedicated to beauty, harmony and deep respect for the human body.
This is a Mature game. My opinion is that your response is rather immature. Nudity isn't anything anyone should be surprised by, or offended by. It's simple anatomy, and even though I'm sure in that particular instance it will be intended as sexual, it doesn't always have to be. So what? She's naked. She's probably a whore. Who cares? It's part of the atmosphere of the game, and it also follows the style of the also Mature comics the game is based on.
I don't agree that adding nudity to ANY game takes away from anything. Just like I don't think adding nudity to movies or television doesn't take away from anything. If anything, it adds a feeling of genuine emotion. The whole body often says far more than just the hands or face.
But that's just my opinion.
But my plead to the brilliant minds behind TellTale and TWAU, don't let such Puritan views change what is already a fantastic game. Nothing you've done thus far should be reprimanded or reworked. You're unique in what you do and I can't wait for the next episode.