I saw it in some torrent sites and i comment that the crack is fake and that it doesn't work. I lied to prevent people from download it for free
Yeah, too bad the torrent communities are far more tight than Telltale's community. Trolls are spotted easily because the torrent community are not made up of a bunch of newbs.
Piracy are for kids without cash, no amount of DRM will ever change that.
15 years ago I too copied games since I could not afford what I wanted. Today I got out the creditcard in about 2 seconds and was glued to the screen for 5 hours.
I don't understand piracy (at least not when people claim that it's part of their freedom of speech). Sure I copied games when I was kid because it was fun to get stuff for free (it wasn't clearly defined as illegal action back then), but when I grew older I started buying my games, because it was better to play original adventure games than some Russian pirate version which didn't even have cut scenes and voices.
I'm not particularly wealthy man, but I have enough money to buy all the games I have time to play. Because I buy all the games I want to play, I don't have need to get pirate versions of those games I don't want to play. This year I have bought 5 games and spent to it as much as I would spend in one bar weekend.
Also I don't have particular wish to try to solve technical troubles myself (which pirated games seem to have more than originals), but instead I contact tech support of the company whose game I bought.
I don't remember where I read/heard the argument I'm about to paraphrase, but it explains perfectly why DRM is pointless.
DRM policy is analogous to political parties in an election. The hardcore republicans will (almost) always vote republican, the hardcore democrats will (almost) always vote democratic, and the result of the election is (almost) always determined by which way the moderates and the swing voters decide to go.
Copy-protection, DRM, and authentication policies in general are the same way.
The people who are dedicated crackers/piraters will ALWAYS pirate. There will always be people with the skills to crack even the heaviest DRM, and there will always be people willing to utilize those cracks. No amount of ad campaigns, draconic DRM software, or peer pressure is going to change that.
Conversely, there will always be people who buy their games legally. People who believe in the magic of videogames, believe in what videogames can become in the future, who want to support the developers, and realize that if they want better games, it's THEIR money that's going to enable it.
If videogame companies want to make more money, then they need to target the people who CAN be convinced not to pirate, and that's the middle-of-the-road-people (the moderates, if we're using the political analogy) who aren't sure whether they should pirate or purchase. And restricting DRM programming is NOT going to win over the hard-earned money of that group. If anything, it's going to convince them to PIRATE, because who wants to deal with a 3-installation limit? *coughMassEffectcough*
I personally think Telltale is approaching this issue with a great mindset. Instead of trying to shackle down the hardcore piraters (who are never going to be convinced or defeated anyway) they're using fair pricing, attractive deals, and collector's incentives to convince the people on the fence that the game is WORTH their money.
I find it funny that there are so many who have stated that they've seen the game posted on torrent sites and then say they're worried about the piracy issues.
I've got news for those of you downloading from torrent sites, nothing you are grabbing is legitimate in any way, why worry about one game when you are inevitably downloading something else illegal?
I subscribe to the "only pirate bad games" philosophy
Well I can only speak for myself and say that I support TTGs gaming production
all the way.
As soon I have a Paypal account I´m going to use it and buy these wonderful new episodes of "Tales Of Monkey Island" that get's released one by one starting with the 1st episode that has been released already.
I can mention that I have Season 1 of "Sam & Max" on disc, which I bought when it got released. And I have pre-orded Season 2 on disc when it's getting released around September. Looking forward to Season 2 of "Sam & Max"!
theres not really anything illegal about downloading tv shows via torrents
It's very illegal, just as much as downloading feature films or music. It violates the copyright, even if you live within the viewing area of the show and are downloading it just because you missed it, it's still illegal.
I'm not saying that I've never visited Pirate Bay, I just think it's funny that people are saying it's wrong to pirate one game when another, published by a large company, but made by a company probably not much larger than telltale, is ok to pirate. It's hypocritical, if you have a problem with the system then you should be pirating all games, otherwise you're just being a punk and not proving anything to anyone.:mad:
@ MusicallyInspired: yes, but, as we say here "Chances make man a thief". We're all loyal and in love with Telltale, but if a crack to the game gets released in so short time, I wouldn't be surprised if someone betrayed.
Even if that's true it still doesn't negate my second point.
I don't support piracy or downloading torrents. But I do it sometimes.
For example would you buy windows? Not only are slow and stupid but unfortunately you need them and on the other hand Bill Gates have enough money for 10 lives. Why should I give them my hard earn money?
I know is kind of stupid my way of thinking but I think a lot of people think that way.
The game is Monkey island™ it’s just wrong to pirate it since it deserves every cent.
In conclusion I believe most people pirate when they need something but don’t think that it deserve their money.
I personally think Telltale is approaching this issue with a great mindset. Instead of trying to shackle down the hardcore piraters (who are never going to be convinced or defeated anyway) they're using fair pricing, attractive deals, and collector's incentives to convince the people on the fence that the game is WORTH their money.
I think telltale has the right idea all the way. I buy almost all my games, the only ones I don't buy are the ones with restrictive types of copy protection, like starforce.
One thing people seem not to realize, though, is that craks are not bad in themselves, it all depends on what you use them for. I use cracks for all my games. I buy them, but there's no freaking way I'm gonna put up with having my disc drives used as expensive dongles or not being allowed to run the game because I have programs on my computer that could be used for piracy, like deamontools, which I use all the time for perfectly legitimate purposes. Thus, whenever I buy a new game, the very first thing I do is to download a crack, because it's rediculous to assume that I, as a paying customer, should have to put up with my version of the game being less convenient to play than the copy you can download.
edit: actually, let me add this other thought I had on why telltale are spot on. The reason copy protection is implemented in games, is to stop the averege guy copying the game and sharing with his/her friends. Now, you might say, but I'd just download the a crack, or the game, or whatever, but let me stop you there. The fact that you would know how to use a crack puts you outside my average guy frame. So, in essance, the goal of copy protection would have to be to find a balance where you're dad can't share it with his work buddies, but it won't get in the way of the advanced users, and I feel telltale really hit the spot with their releases.
As for the other, non-average coputer users, the only way to convince those people not to pirate is to offer things the pirated version does not. Again, telltale is right on. I could go on forever (or like 3-4 more paragraphs at least) giving reasons why telltale has gotten everything right in this respect, but I think I've made my point.
I personally think Telltale is approaching this issue with a great mindset. Instead of trying to shackle down the hardcore piraters (who are never going to be convinced or defeated anyway) they're using fair pricing, attractive deals, and collector's incentives to convince the people on the fence that the game is WORTH their money.
Oh, yes, couldn't agree more on this.
And in general I think DRM is simply bad, just as dictatorship or not washing your hands after using the rest room, it may seem to have its advantages at first, but it will bite very hard in the long run......
I was really disappointed in a friend of mine. She was waiting for the game as eagerly as I was and then I found out she was up to no good. Complaining that the only version she could find is one she'd have to pay for! Over the years she was one of the few people I could talk to about Monkey Island without being seen as a total freak. At least those evil pirates miss the pre-order treats we'll be having!
I don't support piracy or downloading torrents. But I do it sometimes.
For example would you buy windows? Not only are slow and stupid but unfortunately you need them and on the other hand Bill Gates have enough money for 10 lives. Why should I give them my hard earn money?
I know is kind of stupid my way of thinking but I think a lot of people think that way.
You do know there are normal people working on developing windows and basically everything microsoft does, right? You are also probably aware that they're not owners of the company and don't get money based on units sold, right? Did you know that people get fired if sales are bad?
You can try to justify software piracy as much as you want, but it's someones job on the line no matter how you look at it. If they don't make money they do cutbacks.
This is as, if not more, true in the game industry where they tend to let people go in hordes after a project because they can't have them on the budget unless they really need them, although this is mostly for the bigger companies.
If you make X money on a game you'll budget X money on the next and get investors based on that value. If they don't make the money they'll think again before starting the next one or maybe screw it alltogether.
Don't try to justify it with how the owner or founder is infinitely wealthy so it doesn't concern me or say that it's a crap piece of software so I won't pay for it. If you use windows you should own windows. It's not that expensive considering it's the platform for everything you do on the computer(assuming you're not an osx/linux only user).
This is even the same for pirating tvshows and movies, but the math is a bit different since everyone can't be tracked.
People will find a way to pirate the game no matter what you do, I'd rather have they put more time into a game to make it worth buying than spending their recourses on anti-piracy stuff.
I agree to that. And further more, i've already seen a lot of messages on the forums of "these websites", that people who didn't pay, started playing, and got so excited that they bought the games anyway. So you can't stop the pirating anyhoo, and now it also works as free promotion.
I was really disappointed in a friend of mine. She was waiting for the game as eagerly as I was and then I found out she was up to no good. Complaining that the only version she could find is one she'd have to pay for! Over the years she was one of the few people I could talk to about Monkey Island without being seen as a total freak. At least those evil pirates miss the pre-order treats we'll be having!
Waah! Yeah, that stuff pisses me off too. When friends ask me to play a game and I get to the point where they want me to download a crack or find pirated servers for a game I own and then get pissy when I refuse, even though I'm the one who has to ruin my install just because they're cheap.
Or when people scream at me to play a game because it's the greatest thing since sliced bread(which isn't really that great) and then sends me a torrent link and tell me they know it works 'cause it's the one they have. This is with even the cheapest of games and it's disappointing when they call me a moron for not pirating or patching to fit their cheap needs.
I subscribe to the "only pirate bad games" philosophy
I only pirate games that are not sold any more. Or not sold in Germany at all.
If I want to play a game that I can buy then I will either buy it or wait until I can afford it.
I only pirate games that are not sold any more. Or not sold in Germany at all.
If I want to play a game that I can buy then I will either buy it or wait until I can afford it.
I download games for my PSP and DS. I do this because I wish there were demos for them and since this is not the case, it's the only way I can see if I like them before I purchase (which I also do). I don't have this problem for my 360 since most games have demos and there's only a few games I'm interested in.
It's been a long time since I even played a PC game and ToMI made me do it. I happily purchased the game as I will purchase Diablo 3 and Starcraft II which are the only PC (Mac in my case) games I care at all. I'm so sure of the quality of such products that I don't need to try them first hence now downloading necessary.
Whatever guys, I pirated ToMI episode 1, and I'll do the same for the rest. I'm not gonna pay for such crappy games.
...actually that's a lie and I GLADLY paid for ToMI like the rest of you. But I bet I made some of you fervent anti piracy guys pretty mad for a second.
I honestly do not think stealing is the right word here. All moral and ethical arguments aside, the 'free demo' of every telltale game is actually the complete game. Ie they are giving away the bits, free on their website. If you change a couple of those bits after you receive them, as a gift, that ain't theft no matter how you cut it.
Hey TTG, do somethin' to protect your game better!
I was curious and looked around, and the crack to TOMI ep.1 is already there!
It's true that every protection can be avoided, but this is really too fast!
They're stealing from you! :mad:
I don't want my favorite videogame company to lose precious money to make other gaming awesomeness!
Games are always going to be pirated. Get used to it.
I "stumbled" into a crack URL just by looking for Walkthroughs.
Of course, I'm passionate about adventure games, and as such setting-up scummgames.net I see as being a real investment in the industry... eventually I'll have full version downloads to games released as freeware - but the focus will always remain on the promotion of new and upcoming games.
If you change a couple of those bits after you receive them, as a gift, that ain't theft no matter how you cut it.
So, if you ask me to watch for your wallet not to be stolen, and I take money out of it and put it in my pocket, that ain't theft 'cause you asked me to watch for your WALLET and not for the money inside it? Don't think so.
Same thing for the demo, you're legally allowed to use it, but as soon as you're "changing" bits, you're breaking the law.
First, because it's not possible to change copyrighted material for your aims, neither a single bit.
Second, it's LOCKED. Private property. Private property must be respected.
Another example: a friend of yours invites you in his house and gives you a guest room for you, but you keep entering rooms you shouldn't be entering, as his parents' room. C'mon, let's be serious, changing those bit is a crime.
So, if you ask me to watch for your wallet not to be stolen, and I take money out of it and put it in my pocket, that ain't theft 'cause you asked me to watch for your WALLET and not for the money inside it? Don't think so.
Same thing for the demo, you're legally allowed to use it, but as soon as you're "changing" bits, you're breaking the law.
First, because it's not possible to change copyrighted material for your aims, neither a single bit.
Second, it's LOCKED. Private property. Private property must be respected.
Another example: a friend of yours invites you in his house and gives you a guest room for you, but you keep entering rooms you shouldn't be entering, as his parents' room. C'mon, let's be serious, changing those bit is a crime.
That analogy makes no sense.
If I give you a newspaper -- something which is infinitely reproducible -- as a gift -- a 'free newspaper', and you change one word in the leading story for your own amusement, then that's stealing in your opinion?
Private property must indeed be respected, which is why you must respect my private property in my computer and the magnetic polarity of the sectors on my hard drive, and cease your attempts to interfere with said sectors.
You do know there are normal people working on developing windows and basically everything microsoft does, right? You are also probably aware that they're not owners of the company and don't get money based on units sold, right? Did you know that people get fired if sales are bad?
You can try to justify software piracy as much as you want, but it's someones job on the line no matter how you look at it. If they don't make money they do cutbacks.
This is as, if not more, true in the game industry where they tend to let people go in hordes after a project because they can't have them on the budget unless they really need them, although this is mostly for the bigger companies.
If you make X money on a game you'll budget X money on the next and get investors based on that value. If they don't make the money they'll think again before starting the next one or maybe screw it alltogether.
Don't try to justify it with how the owner or founder is infinitely wealthy so it doesn't concern me or say that it's a crap piece of software so I won't pay for it. If you use windows you should own windows. It's not that expensive considering it's the platform for everything you do on the computer(assuming you're not an osx/linux only user).
This is even the same for pirating tvshows and movies, but the math is a bit different since everyone can't be tracked.
I couldn't agree more, even Microsoft has right to get profit from their software. I'm sticking with my XP for now, because I find Vista too expensive at the moment compared to benefits it would give. If they offer it in discount price when I buy my next computer, then I might buy it.
It may be a little weird as analogy, but that's the best I could think of at the moment. Sorry.
What I was trying to explain is that the "gift" is to play the demo.
In a purely legal way, it is a crime to modify copyrighted stuff: when you buy a game, you're buying a license to use it, you can just use it
Want a better example? Lemme try, I can't promise anything.
Ok. Imagine you rent a motel room and you spend the night in it.
You're paying to sleep in it, but can't do anything more than that. You cannot change the furniture's placement, as you can't drill holes in the walls to mount a shelf.
I honestly do not think stealing is the right word here. All moral and ethical arguments aside, the 'free demo' of every telltale game is actually the complete game. Ie they are giving away the bits, free on their website. If you change a couple of those bits after you receive them, as a gift, that ain't theft no matter how you cut it.
Look, to be perfectly honest I probably have the knowledge and ability to launch the game within a real-time ASM disassembler and push the demo launch to the full-version launch. And maybe I would do it if I wanted to practise pushing bits an an ASM disassembler (as this is useful for many other reasons). Originally a "hack" was a performance-enhancing edit made to a program code, people would come up with their own hacks to get programs running better on their systems. And blahdey blah blah. You're probably right that it's not illegal to dl the program from Telltale and apply your own patch. I've patched EMI to run at higher resolutions and to run without the CD (both by using a realtime disassembler, not using any "cracks" from the web). But that doesn't mean uploading/downloading cracks from the web is legal.
It's important to remember Telltale isn't "giving away" the "bits". They own the copyright, and the trademark (or use it under license from LEC), and their legal rights entitle them to control distribution, etc. Google is just as bad - whenever I upload a page I own the copyright to (because I created it) they think they can distribute it on their search engine, which is totally BS (to put it lightly).
It's not great but I guess the people who choose to pirate the game would never have bought it anyway. It's crap that it's happened already though - I do wish there was a more secure way for developers to protect their software.
i agree with the meaning of the thread but please don't forget that piracy plays an important role in the software advertising industry. that's my opinion.
anyway it does not make sense, for me, defending a company against piracy while playing pirated games of other SW houses. Since i think that everyone own s, at least, a pirated game, i find, thread like this, a bit hypocrite.
i agree with the meaning of the thread but please don't forget that piracy plays an important role in the software advertising industry. that's my opinion.
anyway it does not make sense, for me, defending a company against piracy while playing pirated games of other SW houses. Since i think that everyone own s, at least, a pirated game, i find, thread like this, a bit hypocrite.
You're partially right. What I was really complaining about was the fact that it took about 30 minutes to crack the game after its release. That's ridiculous.
Sometimes people must wait 2 weeks for the crack to be released. 30 minutes is kind of shocking, to me.
It's important to remember Telltale isn't "giving away" the "bits". They own the copyright, and the trademark (or use it under license from LEC), and their legal rights entitle them to control distribution, etc. Google is just as bad - whenever I upload a page I own the copyright to (because I created it) they think they can distribute it on their search engine, which is totally BS (to put it lightly).
Just what I was trying to say.
You wanna pirate games, people?
DO THAT, but don't try to say you aren't breaking the law.
Legally speaking, "changing bits" is forbidden and illegal.
i live in the third world where the price of these games are way too high for the average person to afford. I dont condone piracy, but do feel that people who cant afford the games should pirate because they wouldn't buy it either way (because of lack of money). So if they get to play the game, its good for the company that made it, and no revenue loss to them. But if you CAN afford the game, then you have no reason to pirate it. Plus one has to support the industry. I bought monkey island because I want more of them!
It may be a little weird as analogy, but that's the best I could think of at the moment. Sorry.
What I was trying to explain is that the "gift" is to play the demo.
In a purely legal way, it is a crime to modify copyrighted stuff: when you buy a game, you're buying a license to use it, you can just use it
Well then no one can possibly run the game. Every CPU executes the code differently. The arrangement of the memory, the north bridge, the front side bus, the various processing units inside the CPU, all 'modify' the code in order to execute it.
Additionally, there is no contract that someone downloading the 'free demo' makes with telltale. The bits are as-is, 100% free of charge, an unconditional gift. That is until you agree to an EULA, but even that isn't a contract with another human being, so under common law it is somewhat questionable too.
If you could unpack the bits from the demo, without agreeing to the EULA, then the game would be legally yours.
Want a better example? Lemme try, I can't promise anything.
Ok. Imagine you rent a motel room and you spend the night in it.
You're paying to sleep in it, but can't do anything more than that. You cannot change the furniture's placement, as you can't drill holes in the walls to mount a shelf.
Again, property is defined by exclusive usability. That is: if I have it, you can't also have it. As soon you you leave the realm of exclusivity you are abridging the freedom of individuals to arrange their own justly acquired property in the privacy of their own homes.
In the common law, if you modify or damage another individual's property without their permission you are required to pay for it to be repaired. Your motel argument falls apart, because there is no damage to property from modifying bits on my own computer.
It's important to remember Telltale isn't "giving away" the "bits". They own the copyright, and the trademark (or use it under license from LEC), and their legal rights entitle them to control distribution, etc. Google is just as bad - whenever I upload a page I own the copyright to (because I created it) they think they can distribute it on their search engine, which is totally BS (to put it lightly).
Copyright started as a monopoly privilege granted by the king and it will end as a monopoly crime, supported by no court anywhere. The fact that game developers still receive money for their games is a testament to the honesty of players, because 99% of popular games can be acquired for free, and all consoles can be modded to run burnt games.
Telltale should give their games away and let people pay what they think the games are worth. -- People are already getting them for free, but can't give donations back without paying the set prices.
Yandros, you seem to be voluntarily ignoring my point.
First of all: every PC executes binary code in a different way, right as you say. But it absolutely doesn't get "modified". This is just a poor lie that looks like an excuse for pirating.
A program is just a series of instructions that are executed by a computer, the only writing part of its processing is to the RAM for the runtime operations.
So, whoever told you that binary code gets modified as read by a computer was wrong, I assure you.
As for my example, which seems clear enough, there IS a damage to a property. We're not speaking about your PC or about what's inside it: we're talking about the company's product, which gets modified and so damaged. It's inside your computer, but it's not yours. Once again, consider the fact that you're not buying the bits, you're buying the right to play the game forever as much as you want.
You can't do more than that.
I too have some skeletons in the wardrobe, as anyone. But at least I'm fair, and when I pirated a game I ADMITTED I was committing a crime.
That is until you agree to an EULA, but even that isn't a contract with another human being, so under common law it is somewhat questionable too.
If you could unpack the bits from the demo, without agreeing to the EULA, then the game would be legally yours.
Around here (our laws follow continental system) EULA isn't considered legally binding contract, because it doesn't follow the rights which our copyright laws give to consumer. And our laws become before EULA.
But in any case, I don't get the second part of your argument. How you become owner of the software if EULA isn't binding you? It doesn't bind me, but still if I cracked the demo, I wouldn't own license to TOMI.
I think the fact that Telltale hasn't released the episode seperately is gonna bring about much more piracy for this game then should be. Which makes me sad.
But uhh, atleast the game is popular enough to get pirated, right?
..All I can picture is swashbuckling pirates stealing software. I'm gonna stop now.
I actually don't think they should try to protect their games better. In fact, I have chosen not to buy several games in the recent past because their mechanisms were just too harsh (DRM, for example) although the games were actually quite good and I would have loved playing them. But as a legal customer I don't want to feel like a criminal.. and no, I don't want some freaky online activation with a limit of 3 activations or so.
Anyway, I think telltale has made a couple of clever decisions for MI.
1. Not having to buy or develop some bad copy protection saves a lot of money
2. Not even deleting unused parts from the demo saves even more money
3. Customer-friendly business policy (like not annoying legal customers with DRM) attracts even more customers - like me
4. There is just no such thing as a perfect copy protection. Every single game there is has been pirated. If people really want to download it illegally they will anyway. Spending ridiculously high amounts of money on a copy protection would have only resulted in the game being cracked 2 or 3 days later at best
5. Pirated games can, to a certain extent, potentially be free marketing. Two friends of mine actually bought the game after running it through just because they thought it was real good. And I think that's kind of the point, a company that produces great games and doesn't try to screw their customers doesn't even have to worry about illegal copying that much. People will buy it if they like it.
The most efficient thing telltale could have done would be to improve support for other countries.
I didn't want to buy it from steam because first of all, I want to support telltale, not valve . Plus, EUR-steam-prices are a major ripoff, their currency rate is almost 1 instead of ~1.4.
So I decided to buy it directly from telltale. However, lots of people (including me) aren't really the biggest fans of paypal. Luckily I could pay by credit card, but many people in Europe either don't have a credit card or don't want to use it online. They should set up a EUR-based-account and allow simple bank transfers to it for paying.. I guess that would greatly increase their potential customer base in Europe.
Additionally, there is no contract that someone downloading the 'free demo' makes with telltale. The bits are as-is, 100% free of charge, an unconditional gift. That is until you agree to an EULA, but even that isn't a contract with another human being, so under common law it is somewhat questionable too.
If you could unpack the bits from the demo, without agreeing to the EULA, then the game would be legally yours.
It makes no difference what contract is or isn't made, the game is still legally Telltale's property and protected by their copyright. You have a very poor grasp of copyright law if you believe anything other than that.
Telltale should give their games away and let people pay what they think the games are worth. -- People are already getting them for free, but can't give donations back without paying the set prices.
You're an idiot. When YOU make a game, YOU can give it away for free - that's YOUR choice. When Telltale makes a game they can do with it whatever they want.
in digital electronic there's not space for undetermination. things are just 0s or 1s.
and since EXEs are just binaries, you're not responsible of how these binaries are read and executed as long as you don't change their content.
Comments
15 years ago I too copied games since I could not afford what I wanted. Today I got out the creditcard in about 2 seconds and was glued to the screen for 5 hours.
Great episode, cant wait for the next one!
I'm not particularly wealthy man, but I have enough money to buy all the games I have time to play. Because I buy all the games I want to play, I don't have need to get pirate versions of those games I don't want to play. This year I have bought 5 games and spent to it as much as I would spend in one bar weekend.
Also I don't have particular wish to try to solve technical troubles myself (which pirated games seem to have more than originals), but instead I contact tech support of the company whose game I bought.
DRM policy is analogous to political parties in an election. The hardcore republicans will (almost) always vote republican, the hardcore democrats will (almost) always vote democratic, and the result of the election is (almost) always determined by which way the moderates and the swing voters decide to go.
Copy-protection, DRM, and authentication policies in general are the same way.
The people who are dedicated crackers/piraters will ALWAYS pirate. There will always be people with the skills to crack even the heaviest DRM, and there will always be people willing to utilize those cracks. No amount of ad campaigns, draconic DRM software, or peer pressure is going to change that.
Conversely, there will always be people who buy their games legally. People who believe in the magic of videogames, believe in what videogames can become in the future, who want to support the developers, and realize that if they want better games, it's THEIR money that's going to enable it.
If videogame companies want to make more money, then they need to target the people who CAN be convinced not to pirate, and that's the middle-of-the-road-people (the moderates, if we're using the political analogy) who aren't sure whether they should pirate or purchase. And restricting DRM programming is NOT going to win over the hard-earned money of that group. If anything, it's going to convince them to PIRATE, because who wants to deal with a 3-installation limit? *coughMassEffectcough*
I personally think Telltale is approaching this issue with a great mindset. Instead of trying to shackle down the hardcore piraters (who are never going to be convinced or defeated anyway) they're using fair pricing, attractive deals, and collector's incentives to convince the people on the fence that the game is WORTH their money.
I subscribe to the "only pirate bad games" philosophy
all the way.
As soon I have a Paypal account I´m going to use it and buy these wonderful new episodes of "Tales Of Monkey Island" that get's released one by one starting with the 1st episode that has been released already.
I can mention that I have Season 1 of "Sam & Max" on disc, which I bought when it got released. And I have pre-orded Season 2 on disc when it's getting released around September. Looking forward to Season 2 of "Sam & Max"!
It's very illegal, just as much as downloading feature films or music. It violates the copyright, even if you live within the viewing area of the show and are downloading it just because you missed it, it's still illegal.
I'm not saying that I've never visited Pirate Bay, I just think it's funny that people are saying it's wrong to pirate one game when another, published by a large company, but made by a company probably not much larger than telltale, is ok to pirate. It's hypocritical, if you have a problem with the system then you should be pirating all games, otherwise you're just being a punk and not proving anything to anyone.:mad:
Even if that's true it still doesn't negate my second point.
For example would you buy windows? Not only are slow and stupid but unfortunately you need them and on the other hand Bill Gates have enough money for 10 lives. Why should I give them my hard earn money?
I know is kind of stupid my way of thinking but I think a lot of people think that way.
The game is Monkey island™ it’s just wrong to pirate it since it deserves every cent.
In conclusion I believe most people pirate when they need something but don’t think that it deserve their money.
That is the spirit of a pirate.
A GOOD pirate.
*Tiny spoilder* {So, like, when we all go to the wishing well now, do we turn into you?}
Too true. Have a cookie.
One thing people seem not to realize, though, is that craks are not bad in themselves, it all depends on what you use them for. I use cracks for all my games. I buy them, but there's no freaking way I'm gonna put up with having my disc drives used as expensive dongles or not being allowed to run the game because I have programs on my computer that could be used for piracy, like deamontools, which I use all the time for perfectly legitimate purposes. Thus, whenever I buy a new game, the very first thing I do is to download a crack, because it's rediculous to assume that I, as a paying customer, should have to put up with my version of the game being less convenient to play than the copy you can download.
edit: actually, let me add this other thought I had on why telltale are spot on. The reason copy protection is implemented in games, is to stop the averege guy copying the game and sharing with his/her friends. Now, you might say, but I'd just download the a crack, or the game, or whatever, but let me stop you there. The fact that you would know how to use a crack puts you outside my average guy frame. So, in essance, the goal of copy protection would have to be to find a balance where you're dad can't share it with his work buddies, but it won't get in the way of the advanced users, and I feel telltale really hit the spot with their releases.
As for the other, non-average coputer users, the only way to convince those people not to pirate is to offer things the pirated version does not. Again, telltale is right on. I could go on forever (or like 3-4 more paragraphs at least) giving reasons why telltale has gotten everything right in this respect, but I think I've made my point.
Oh, yes, couldn't agree more on this.
And in general I think DRM is simply bad, just as dictatorship or not washing your hands after using the rest room, it may seem to have its advantages at first, but it will bite very hard in the long run......
You do know there are normal people working on developing windows and basically everything microsoft does, right? You are also probably aware that they're not owners of the company and don't get money based on units sold, right? Did you know that people get fired if sales are bad?
You can try to justify software piracy as much as you want, but it's someones job on the line no matter how you look at it. If they don't make money they do cutbacks.
This is as, if not more, true in the game industry where they tend to let people go in hordes after a project because they can't have them on the budget unless they really need them, although this is mostly for the bigger companies.
If you make X money on a game you'll budget X money on the next and get investors based on that value. If they don't make the money they'll think again before starting the next one or maybe screw it alltogether.
Don't try to justify it with how the owner or founder is infinitely wealthy so it doesn't concern me or say that it's a crap piece of software so I won't pay for it. If you use windows you should own windows. It's not that expensive considering it's the platform for everything you do on the computer(assuming you're not an osx/linux only user).
This is even the same for pirating tvshows and movies, but the math is a bit different since everyone can't be tracked.
I agree to that. And further more, i've already seen a lot of messages on the forums of "these websites", that people who didn't pay, started playing, and got so excited that they bought the games anyway. So you can't stop the pirating anyhoo, and now it also works as free promotion.
And the real fans PAY for the games:rolleyes:
Waah! Yeah, that stuff pisses me off too. When friends ask me to play a game and I get to the point where they want me to download a crack or find pirated servers for a game I own and then get pissy when I refuse, even though I'm the one who has to ruin my install just because they're cheap.
Or when people scream at me to play a game because it's the greatest thing since sliced bread(which isn't really that great) and then sends me a torrent link and tell me they know it works 'cause it's the one they have. This is with even the cheapest of games and it's disappointing when they call me a moron for not pirating or patching to fit their cheap needs.
I only pirate games that are not sold any more. Or not sold in Germany at all.
If I want to play a game that I can buy then I will either buy it or wait until I can afford it.
Great, dude
It's been a long time since I even played a PC game and ToMI made me do it. I happily purchased the game as I will purchase Diablo 3 and Starcraft II which are the only PC (Mac in my case) games I care at all. I'm so sure of the quality of such products that I don't need to try them first hence now downloading necessary.
...actually that's a lie and I GLADLY paid for ToMI like the rest of you. But I bet I made some of you fervent anti piracy guys pretty mad for a second.
I honestly do not think stealing is the right word here. All moral and ethical arguments aside, the 'free demo' of every telltale game is actually the complete game. Ie they are giving away the bits, free on their website. If you change a couple of those bits after you receive them, as a gift, that ain't theft no matter how you cut it.
I "stumbled" into a crack URL just by looking for Walkthroughs.
Of course, I'm passionate about adventure games, and as such setting-up scummgames.net I see as being a real investment in the industry... eventually I'll have full version downloads to games released as freeware - but the focus will always remain on the promotion of new and upcoming games.
So, if you ask me to watch for your wallet not to be stolen, and I take money out of it and put it in my pocket, that ain't theft 'cause you asked me to watch for your WALLET and not for the money inside it? Don't think so.
Same thing for the demo, you're legally allowed to use it, but as soon as you're "changing" bits, you're breaking the law.
First, because it's not possible to change copyrighted material for your aims, neither a single bit.
Second, it's LOCKED. Private property. Private property must be respected.
Another example: a friend of yours invites you in his house and gives you a guest room for you, but you keep entering rooms you shouldn't be entering, as his parents' room. C'mon, let's be serious, changing those bit is a crime.
That analogy makes no sense.
If I give you a newspaper -- something which is infinitely reproducible -- as a gift -- a 'free newspaper', and you change one word in the leading story for your own amusement, then that's stealing in your opinion?
Private property must indeed be respected, which is why you must respect my private property in my computer and the magnetic polarity of the sectors on my hard drive, and cease your attempts to interfere with said sectors.
I couldn't agree more, even Microsoft has right to get profit from their software. I'm sticking with my XP for now, because I find Vista too expensive at the moment compared to benefits it would give. If they offer it in discount price when I buy my next computer, then I might buy it.
What I was trying to explain is that the "gift" is to play the demo.
In a purely legal way, it is a crime to modify copyrighted stuff: when you buy a game, you're buying a license to use it, you can just use it
Want a better example? Lemme try, I can't promise anything.
Ok. Imagine you rent a motel room and you spend the night in it.
You're paying to sleep in it, but can't do anything more than that. You cannot change the furniture's placement, as you can't drill holes in the walls to mount a shelf.
It's important to remember Telltale isn't "giving away" the "bits". They own the copyright, and the trademark (or use it under license from LEC), and their legal rights entitle them to control distribution, etc. Google is just as bad - whenever I upload a page I own the copyright to (because I created it) they think they can distribute it on their search engine, which is totally BS (to put it lightly).
i agree with the meaning of the thread but please don't forget that piracy plays an important role in the software advertising industry. that's my opinion.
anyway it does not make sense, for me, defending a company against piracy while playing pirated games of other SW houses. Since i think that everyone own s, at least, a pirated game, i find, thread like this, a bit hypocrite.
You're partially right. What I was really complaining about was the fact that it took about 30 minutes to crack the game after its release. That's ridiculous.
Sometimes people must wait 2 weeks for the crack to be released. 30 minutes is kind of shocking, to me.
Just what I was trying to say.
You wanna pirate games, people?
DO THAT, but don't try to say you aren't breaking the law.
Legally speaking, "changing bits" is forbidden and illegal.
I like you.
Well then no one can possibly run the game. Every CPU executes the code differently. The arrangement of the memory, the north bridge, the front side bus, the various processing units inside the CPU, all 'modify' the code in order to execute it.
Additionally, there is no contract that someone downloading the 'free demo' makes with telltale. The bits are as-is, 100% free of charge, an unconditional gift. That is until you agree to an EULA, but even that isn't a contract with another human being, so under common law it is somewhat questionable too.
If you could unpack the bits from the demo, without agreeing to the EULA, then the game would be legally yours.
Again, property is defined by exclusive usability. That is: if I have it, you can't also have it. As soon you you leave the realm of exclusivity you are abridging the freedom of individuals to arrange their own justly acquired property in the privacy of their own homes.
In the common law, if you modify or damage another individual's property without their permission you are required to pay for it to be repaired. Your motel argument falls apart, because there is no damage to property from modifying bits on my own computer.
Copyright started as a monopoly privilege granted by the king and it will end as a monopoly crime, supported by no court anywhere. The fact that game developers still receive money for their games is a testament to the honesty of players, because 99% of popular games can be acquired for free, and all consoles can be modded to run burnt games.
Telltale should give their games away and let people pay what they think the games are worth. -- People are already getting them for free, but can't give donations back without paying the set prices.
First of all: every PC executes binary code in a different way, right as you say. But it absolutely doesn't get "modified". This is just a poor lie that looks like an excuse for pirating.
A program is just a series of instructions that are executed by a computer, the only writing part of its processing is to the RAM for the runtime operations.
So, whoever told you that binary code gets modified as read by a computer was wrong, I assure you.
As for my example, which seems clear enough, there IS a damage to a property. We're not speaking about your PC or about what's inside it: we're talking about the company's product, which gets modified and so damaged. It's inside your computer, but it's not yours. Once again, consider the fact that you're not buying the bits, you're buying the right to play the game forever as much as you want.
You can't do more than that.
I too have some skeletons in the wardrobe, as anyone. But at least I'm fair, and when I pirated a game I ADMITTED I was committing a crime.
Around here (our laws follow continental system) EULA isn't considered legally binding contract, because it doesn't follow the rights which our copyright laws give to consumer. And our laws become before EULA.
But in any case, I don't get the second part of your argument. How you become owner of the software if EULA isn't binding you? It doesn't bind me, but still if I cracked the demo, I wouldn't own license to TOMI.
But uhh, atleast the game is popular enough to get pirated, right?
..All I can picture is swashbuckling pirates stealing software. I'm gonna stop now.
Anyway, I think telltale has made a couple of clever decisions for MI.
1. Not having to buy or develop some bad copy protection saves a lot of money
2. Not even deleting unused parts from the demo saves even more money
3. Customer-friendly business policy (like not annoying legal customers with DRM) attracts even more customers - like me
4. There is just no such thing as a perfect copy protection. Every single game there is has been pirated. If people really want to download it illegally they will anyway. Spending ridiculously high amounts of money on a copy protection would have only resulted in the game being cracked 2 or 3 days later at best
5. Pirated games can, to a certain extent, potentially be free marketing. Two friends of mine actually bought the game after running it through just because they thought it was real good. And I think that's kind of the point, a company that produces great games and doesn't try to screw their customers doesn't even have to worry about illegal copying that much. People will buy it if they like it.
The most efficient thing telltale could have done would be to improve support for other countries.
I didn't want to buy it from steam because first of all, I want to support telltale, not valve
So I decided to buy it directly from telltale. However, lots of people (including me) aren't really the biggest fans of paypal. Luckily I could pay by credit card, but many people in Europe either don't have a credit card or don't want to use it online. They should set up a EUR-based-account and allow simple bank transfers to it for paying.. I guess that would greatly increase their potential customer base in Europe.
and since EXEs are just binaries, you're not responsible of how these binaries are read and executed as long as you don't change their content.