DRM are useless ,they are just encouraging piracy by hindering those honest enough to pay for the game.
Now my rules are pretty clear -> games that requires online activation or cd check ? Won't buy !
I didn't buy sims 3 for that reason, and i guess i'll have to do without monkey island too. (Unless it shows up on gametap.)
DRM are useless ,they are just encouraging piracy by hindering those honest enough to pay for the game.
Now my rules are pretty clear -> games that requires online activation or cd check ? Won't buy !
I didn't buy sims 3 for that reason, and i guess i'll have to do without monkey island too. (Unless it shows up on gametap.)
I don't understand what is the big problem with these things, copy protections have almost always existed. On-line activation makes sense if it's direct download, but IMO in CD version it's big no no. CD check doesn't bother me at all, although I usually use full install and CD is in the drive just for fun.
Sure it's nice when there are no such things, but I do find those much nicer than searching right words from your manual to answer the copy protection questions.
don't understand what is the big problem with these things, copy protections have almost always existed. On-line activation makes sense if it's direct download, but IMO in CD version it's big no no. CD check doesn't bother me at all, although I usually use full install and CD is in the drive just for fun.
I didn't mind using the cd when hard drives where too small to put the whole game on it. But now ?
Having some game where official no-cd patch where made made me realise how annoying that was. I would bear with it if it here successful in preventing piracy, but it's not.
Music industry understood, we now have drm free mp3, and yipee, i can buy music again. What's is the game industry waiting for ?
The other problem i have with drm is that i'm a linux user... Having to use crack to run games on my os piss me off.
Yep, I tried to talk about pirating TOMI but everything went out of control now.
Obviously, as you said, I was speaking about italian laws.
There are harsh laws against piracy here, although they don't always get applied.
So it's likely that my thoughts about piracy are due to the anti-piracy politics I've always been breathing here.
It shouldn't really matter because copyrights are governed by the WIPO by all the nations that are signatory to its treaties. So specific laws that relate to a certain jurisdiction must first fulfil WIPO treaty obligations, and then they may (or may not) "go further". That's what I don't understand about everyone who thinks that it's legal to post game/program cracks. I think they get confused by things that are legal in most WIPO nations - like say decrypting DVDs using DVD Decrypter or installing Modchips (the High Court of Australia, for instance, did not see how installing a modchip allowed a game to be duplicated, and therefore ruled that it does not break a "TPM" because they see "TPM's" as designed to protect against copying/duplication... the argument that they allowed pirated games to run on its own didn't hold enough water and Sony lost the court case).
DRM is not inherently bad. But like all technologies it can be abused. I have always said that DRM that works in a way transparent to the genuine user is fine, and I don't see any problem with programs that require a product code to be entered (this typically allows genuine users to use the latest version while those with pirated versions have to settle for the version they can actually find).
I don't believe the DMCA (which is US statue law) applies to people outside the US, unless you fall under a DMCA treaty.
As stated on that website the law makes it illegal to use cracks. It also makes it illegal to manufacture or sell 'devices used to illegally copy software' -- as far as I know this excludes devices that simply modify software but do not illegally copy it.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Being that you are a self-proclaimed "expert" on copyright law you should be well aware that there's no such thing as a "DMCA treaty" and that the DMCA is the implication of a 1996 WIPO treaty (two actually) that relate to the legality of circumventing TPM's (to use the language used in the Australian Copyright Act).
The Australian Copyright Law was amended with the Copyright Legislation Amendment Act 2006 that implemented (among other changes) the changes required by the 1996 treaty; but it is very clear that the treaty was interpreted very differently to how the USA interpreted it (remembering that the USA was heavily influenced by lobbying from the MPAA and RIAA).
By the way I do not consider myself a legal expert in any regards. Still, I do not believe that simple software DRM is legally considered to be TPM's by the law (because it has to have a very specific purpose); however that does not mean that releasing cracks that modify other people's code is legal. It's not. As they hold the copyright and as such the right to publication and duplication releasing a crack is in breach of their right to publication.
Back in the day things like codewheels were very effective at thwarting distribution.
Music industry understood, we now have drm free mp3, and yipee, i can buy music again. What's is the game industry waiting for?
As I've already said earlier in the thread, I had no trouble running EMI in a realtime disassembler and getting it to run off the HDD with no cd (although my knowledge of ASM is extremely limited). CMI is in fact one of the easiest games ever to run from the HDD with no CD - all you have to do is copy the CDs to the installation directly and then edit its registry entry to read from them and not the CDs. Of course you can also use ScummVM, but the original interpreter works flawlessly like this.
Being that you are a self-proclaimed "expert" on copyright law you should be well aware that there's no such thing as a "DMCA treaty" and that the DMCA is the implication of a 1996 WIPO treaty (two actually) that relate to the legality of circumventing TPM's (to use the language used in the Australian Copyright Act).
As I've already said earlier in the thread, I had no trouble running EMI in a realtime disassembler and getting it to run off the HDD with no cd (although my knowledge of ASM is extremely limited).
Methinks thou dost protest too much...
So far you've accused me of being a communist, and now you accuse me of being a lair.
But I concede that apparently it is illegal now, internationally, to distribute any software which 'circumvents copyright'. It's frankly draconian, and I would like to see it come up against common law in court. I am left wondering if you are actually happy that people can be put in jail for distributing the wrong sequence of bytes even when those bytes are passive.
I think Telltale have done all they need to in combating piracy, by providing great games for cheap prices for easy fast download online, with extra incentives for boxed and collectors editions.
Piracy will always happen and sometimes it's not worth the time money and effort fighting a pointless cause
Yandros have clearly no clue of what he is talking about. Go play troll somewhere else
I have visited most of the torrents of this game at mininova, isohunt and thepiratebay and i have left a comment begging them to buy it instead of pirating a pirate game, lol. I really want telltale to make a lot of money, because maybe that will encourage them to make even more monkey island games in the future. Makes me feel good
I think Telltale have done all they need to in combating piracy, by providing great games for cheap prices for easy fast download online, with extra incentives for boxed and collectors editions.
Piracy will always happen and sometimes it's not worth the time money and effort fighting a pointless cause
Heh, that's true. TellTale's shop is easy to use and download was fast like you said.
But in general direct downloading's benefit is that it's actually much easier and faster to get the game than if you try find torrent and crack. And there's no risk of trojans and viruses when you download from legitimate source.
Then again ordering CD/DVD versions from the Internet has never been very difficult either (and TTG is kind enough to give both :cool:). The truth is that I don't visit in local game stores anymore, because it's much easier to find what you want from on-line stores.
Only benefit I can see which you get from downloading pirate version is that it doesn't cost a dime for you, but then again I will gladly pay for good games and on-line customer support (which seems to work fine in TTG's site).
I downloaded a couple of games in my time, and if I like a game I buy it.
Hidden in the basement I have the other 4 MI games, nicly tucked away in their original boxes. And one day I'll put MI5 down there to. I think it's nice just to know that I have the originals, and sometimes I catch myself wandering down there just to smell the floppies and look at the coverart.
Then again ordering CD/DVD versions from the Internet has never been very difficult either (and TTG is kind enough to give both :cool:). The truth is that I don't visit in local game stores anymore, because it's much easier to find what you want from on-line stores.
Especially when the brick & mortar stores around here charge an arm and a leg for games that cost a lot less in the UK...
For example, I just got Street Fighter 4 from Amazon UK - 21 EUR + 6 EUR shipping vs. a whopping 45 EUR at the store here... o_O;
np: Tosca - Chocolate Elvis (Rockers Hifi Vocal Version) (The Chocolate Elvis Dubs)
I've got some great deals off play.com with no tax or delivery charges to continent, faultless. Buying at stores means you are always paying for the shop rent and other overheads. At least over here. Only drawback is the postal wait so plan well ahead.
I've done my part by spreading the 'please buy this if you like it' in some uncouth places and surprisingly a lot of the 'pirates' said they agreed 100%.
Maybe you didn't hear, but we got the pirates. Like 3 months ago. Besides, they were in Somalia anyway, and they were more after ransom than episodic adventure games. But I understand your fear and confusion anyway, it was a very trying time.
So far you've accused me of being a communist, and now you accuse me of being a lair.
But I concede that apparently it is illegal now, internationally, to distribute any software which 'circumvents copyright'. It's frankly draconian, and I would like to see it come up against common law in court. I am left wondering if you are actually happy that people can be put in jail for distributing the wrong sequence of bytes even when those bytes are passive.
I own de-aacs.com. You will be fully able to see my views when I set up that website. I've delayed its launch by more than a year because I'm very concerned about sending the wrong message - but trust me I am on the "anti-drm" camp and I'm very interested in the legal avenues that are available to the public. I'm certain that software such as DVD Decrypter is not illegal in most countries (except the USA) because it does not interfere with a program's code in any way (for instance, eliminating DRM that exists in software).
So unless you've already set up your anti-drm website I'm not interested in hearing that "I don't protest enough". Frankly I'm only concerned because the rubbish that is allowed to go on the USA is spilling over to other countries. I really don't care too much about the USA's situation, I'm far more concerned about the rest of us.
I don't care one bit about P2P ... it's illegal, and the Australian authorities have stated publicly (last year) that they're not interested in charging home users for using it; I have absolutely no interests in promoting illegal activity, all I'm interested in promoting is legal activity. I'm certainly NOT on the side of thepiratebay and other anti-copyright organizations who have publically stated their far-left views. As far as I'm concerned they can all be shut down and prosecuted, I really don't care one little bit.
But at the moment de-aacs.com can wait because I see scummgames.net as far more important for the time being. Enjoy.
I have visited most of the torrents of this game at mininova, isohunt and thepiratebay and i have left a comment begging them to buy it instead of pirating a pirate game, lol.
Why bother?
Better to use your time in a more constructive way then "trolling" on torrent sites.
Telltale themselves could do that, but I bet they're not going to bother because it won't help them any anyway. There's a large enough market of paying game customers, and that's what they need to be concerned about... not converting freeloaders who feel that they should be entitled to play the newest game for free.
In fact I'd be interested in hearing Telltale's opinion on this, even if someone wants to send me a PM or an email it'd be appreciated (while being kept in confidence).
Piracy sucks, but it's an unfortunate fact of life in the software industry.
It's safe to say that most if not all of those who pirate a game would not have bought it in the first place, which makes one wonder why developers insist on punishing paying customers with intrusive and onconvenient DRM methods that do nothing to slow down piracy.
Piracy sucks, but it's an unfortunate fact of life in the software industry.
It's safe to say that most if not all of those who pirate a game would not have bought it in the first place, which makes one wonder why developers insist on punishing paying customers with intrusive and onconvenient DRM methods that do nothing to slow down piracy.
Harsh and excessive DRM can be a deterrent for buying the full product. For instance, a little while ago a friend of mine downloaded a trial version of a piece of software and liked it and so paid to have the full version. It was about $300 or so. However after trying to activate the product unsuccessfully for days they eventually gave up and got a refund. The product required internet activation, and the net was connected via a standard Telstra ADSL line (through a hardware router that is always connected). Their internet worked perfectly fine, but the product refused to activate as it couldn't connect to its server; and there was no resolving this problem (all software filters turned off, all AV turned off, etc). At least Microsoft has phone activation. Still - imagine if all Telstra ADSL clients are unable to activate your product... that's a HUGE chunk of the Australian market. And the other thing - the product was not an internet-based application; so there was certainly no installing it on PC's that are disconnected from the web.
DRM that interferes with a customers actual ability to use the program is a HUGE problem.
By the way, there's no way that kind of "technology" would be legally classified as a "TPM" under Australian Law (because the removal of it via another means would not constitute an act associated with copying or decrypting of the program); so it does not even gain extra legal protection (except maybe in the USA - but keep in mind that the RIAA and MPAA aren't interested in product activation as a forcible form of DRM). You still wouldn't be legally able to distribute a crack - but providing another means of activation not associated with modifying the product files would probably be fine (registry edits, installing on antoher PC and then copying, etc).
As long as software gets released, there will be piracy. Deal with it. Heck, all Monkey Island Episodes will probably be spread around the net. Seeing as crackers have their own non public unwrappers for Securom , i bet it´s done in minutes. But you know what, people who apprechiate the game will still buy it. Telltale could aswell just remove the DRM alltogether to make customers happier.
Telltale made the Demo way too short after all. So you can´t get a good impression from it, really. For the next episode you should allow a longer demo play, to give new players a feel for the game.
Comments
Now my rules are pretty clear -> games that requires online activation or cd check ? Won't buy !
I didn't buy sims 3 for that reason, and i guess i'll have to do without monkey island too. (Unless it shows up on gametap.)
I don't understand what is the big problem with these things, copy protections have almost always existed. On-line activation makes sense if it's direct download, but IMO in CD version it's big no no. CD check doesn't bother me at all, although I usually use full install and CD is in the drive just for fun.
Sure it's nice when there are no such things, but I do find those much nicer than searching right words from your manual to answer the copy protection questions.
But as world of goo has shown, some people (cough..me...) pirate the game and then buy the full version. Same thing happened with Aquaria.
Most of the piraters wouldn't have bought the game anyway, all the MI fans have already purchased it.
Having some game where official no-cd patch where made made me realise how annoying that was. I would bear with it if it here successful in preventing piracy, but it's not.
Music industry understood, we now have drm free mp3, and yipee, i can buy music again. What's is the game industry waiting for ?
The other problem i have with drm is that i'm a linux user... Having to use crack to run games on my os piss me off.
DRM is not inherently bad. But like all technologies it can be abused. I have always said that DRM that works in a way transparent to the genuine user is fine, and I don't see any problem with programs that require a product code to be entered (this typically allows genuine users to use the latest version while those with pirated versions have to settle for the version they can actually find). Being that you are a self-proclaimed "expert" on copyright law you should be well aware that there's no such thing as a "DMCA treaty" and that the DMCA is the implication of a 1996 WIPO treaty (two actually) that relate to the legality of circumventing TPM's (to use the language used in the Australian Copyright Act).
The Australian Copyright Law was amended with the Copyright Legislation Amendment Act 2006 that implemented (among other changes) the changes required by the 1996 treaty; but it is very clear that the treaty was interpreted very differently to how the USA interpreted it (remembering that the USA was heavily influenced by lobbying from the MPAA and RIAA).
By the way I do not consider myself a legal expert in any regards. Still, I do not believe that simple software DRM is legally considered to be TPM's by the law (because it has to have a very specific purpose); however that does not mean that releasing cracks that modify other people's code is legal. It's not. As they hold the copyright and as such the right to publication and duplication releasing a crack is in breach of their right to publication.
Back in the day things like codewheels were very effective at thwarting distribution. As I've already said earlier in the thread, I had no trouble running EMI in a realtime disassembler and getting it to run off the HDD with no cd (although my knowledge of ASM is extremely limited). CMI is in fact one of the easiest games ever to run from the HDD with no CD - all you have to do is copy the CDs to the installation directly and then edit its registry entry to read from them and not the CDs. Of course you can also use ScummVM, but the original interpreter works flawlessly like this.
I reemmber my father photocopying the one for monkey island. (To make sure we can still play even if me or my sisters lose or screw it beyond repair.)
Till a few years ago it was not possible to purchase genuine games (Eastern Europe)
This is the first game I've ever bought! Developers deserve it!
Support them.
Methinks thou dost protest too much...
So far you've accused me of being a communist, and now you accuse me of being a lair.
But I concede that apparently it is illegal now, internationally, to distribute any software which 'circumvents copyright'. It's frankly draconian, and I would like to see it come up against common law in court. I am left wondering if you are actually happy that people can be put in jail for distributing the wrong sequence of bytes even when those bytes are passive.
Piracy will always happen and sometimes it's not worth the time money and effort fighting a pointless cause
I have visited most of the torrents of this game at mininova, isohunt and thepiratebay and i have left a comment begging them to buy it instead of pirating a pirate game, lol. I really want telltale to make a lot of money, because maybe that will encourage them to make even more monkey island games in the future. Makes me feel good
Heh, that's true. TellTale's shop is easy to use and download was fast like you said.
But in general direct downloading's benefit is that it's actually much easier and faster to get the game than if you try find torrent and crack. And there's no risk of trojans and viruses when you download from legitimate source.
Then again ordering CD/DVD versions from the Internet has never been very difficult either (and TTG is kind enough to give both :cool:). The truth is that I don't visit in local game stores anymore, because it's much easier to find what you want from on-line stores.
Only benefit I can see which you get from downloading pirate version is that it doesn't cost a dime for you, but then again I will gladly pay for good games and on-line customer support (which seems to work fine in TTG's site).
Hidden in the basement I have the other 4 MI games, nicly tucked away in their original boxes. And one day I'll put MI5 down there to. I think it's nice just to know that I have the originals, and sometimes I catch myself wandering down there just to smell the floppies and look at the coverart.
For example, I just got Street Fighter 4 from Amazon UK - 21 EUR + 6 EUR shipping vs. a whopping 45 EUR at the store here... o_O;
np: Tosca - Chocolate Elvis (Rockers Hifi Vocal Version) (The Chocolate Elvis Dubs)
I've done my part by spreading the 'please buy this if you like it' in some uncouth places and surprisingly a lot of the 'pirates' said they agreed 100%.
Maybe you didn't hear, but we got the pirates. Like 3 months ago. Besides, they were in Somalia anyway, and they were more after ransom than episodic adventure games. But I understand your fear and confusion anyway, it was a very trying time.
You're an ass.
So unless you've already set up your anti-drm website I'm not interested in hearing that "I don't protest enough". Frankly I'm only concerned because the rubbish that is allowed to go on the USA is spilling over to other countries. I really don't care too much about the USA's situation, I'm far more concerned about the rest of us.
I don't care one bit about P2P ... it's illegal, and the Australian authorities have stated publicly (last year) that they're not interested in charging home users for using it; I have absolutely no interests in promoting illegal activity, all I'm interested in promoting is legal activity. I'm certainly NOT on the side of thepiratebay and other anti-copyright organizations who have publically stated their far-left views. As far as I'm concerned they can all be shut down and prosecuted, I really don't care one little bit.
But at the moment de-aacs.com can wait because I see scummgames.net as far more important for the time being. Enjoy.
Better to use your time in a more constructive way then "trolling" on torrent sites.
Telltale themselves could do that, but I bet they're not going to bother because it won't help them any anyway. There's a large enough market of paying game customers, and that's what they need to be concerned about... not converting freeloaders who feel that they should be entitled to play the newest game for free.
In fact I'd be interested in hearing Telltale's opinion on this, even if someone wants to send me a PM or an email it'd be appreciated (while being kept in confidence).
It's safe to say that most if not all of those who pirate a game would not have bought it in the first place, which makes one wonder why developers insist on punishing paying customers with intrusive and onconvenient DRM methods that do nothing to slow down piracy.
DRM that interferes with a customers actual ability to use the program is a HUGE problem.
By the way, there's no way that kind of "technology" would be legally classified as a "TPM" under Australian Law (because the removal of it via another means would not constitute an act associated with copying or decrypting of the program); so it does not even gain extra legal protection (except maybe in the USA - but keep in mind that the RIAA and MPAA aren't interested in product activation as a forcible form of DRM). You still wouldn't be legally able to distribute a crack - but providing another means of activation not associated with modifying the product files would probably be fine (registry edits, installing on antoher PC and then copying, etc).
Telltale made the Demo way too short after all. So you can´t get a good impression from it, really. For the next episode you should allow a longer demo play, to give new players a feel for the game.