If I get in trouble for putting another member on blast, so be it. I understand. But I'm done tiptoeing around this issue.
Cope? Respectful of others' views? Is this some kind of fucking joke?. You must have missed the conversation when she blamed the AIDS epidemic on gay people. Or when she equated homosexuality to incest and cannibalism, or the one where she used homophobic slurs and got banned for it.
[Mod edit: Insult redacted.]
I have a lot of respect for you, xboxplayer. But you might want to save the white-knighting for someone who isn't a big ball of haughtiness and hate speech.
Those who would take those views, treat them as fact, and force them on us? No. Fuck them, they're scum. But users like Cope and Kenny/Lee a… moreren't those people. They're human beings who just happen to have unpopular views. They're respectful and tolerant of how others think.
Basically, here's how I see it: Having an unpopular or harsh viewpoint is not wrong. What's wrong is acting on it with no regard for the well-being of others.
I'd like to point out the meaning of tolerance, courtesy of Google: "The ability or willingness to tolerate the existence of opinions or behavior dislikes or disagrees with."
Since I don't have a dislike for homosexuality or same-sex marriage, I can't tolerate it. However, I can tolerate something like anti-abortion views, since I dislike the movement and strongly support the right for women to have abortions. This is what I've been trying to say.
Well my old PS3 is only 160 GB and it's a real pain to even play other games (Arkham Origins and Last of Us don't even load on the older model), so with the new(ish) 500 GB model I don't have to worry about those problems anymore. And I'm waiting for the 1 TB model of PS4 to come out first and save up on the games for that system. Besides, I still love the PS3. B3
While you always have the choice of what to believe in, some narratives are at times deeply rooted into our cultural context, or the way our parents raised us, or our own personal conscious - all of those sometimes tip the scales over and make people reach illogical (or just different) conclusions, therefore while still their own choice, it is not really their choice.
You mentioned the doctrine of the Nazi people; if you'd go to a local child in Berlin of 1938 and ask him about things such as "Lebensraum im Osten" (the creation of more living space for Germans) and racial superiority, he would not hesitate to tell you that he is superior to some races, as some were considered to be as good as rats, and had the right to their lands, euthanizing them or enslaving them in the process (depending their place on a pre-determined "factual" scale of "racial quality"). He'd also tell you that he can't wait to join the Hitler-Jugend, even though it was a horrible institution. If you'd go to a local girl, she'll tell you her purpose is to breed and warm the bed for her husband, who would be out fighting "necessary" wars.
Actually, here's a more modern example of factual bias as result of the right cultural context, the right time and location: I was raised in Israel, where Jesus Christ is looked down upon, his name was even degraded and twisted in order to make his very being mocked (Yeshua turned into Yeshu, which makes a Hebrew acronym for "May his name and memory be obliterated"). I was raised to hate that person, to think it was his ideology and teachings that "Aryan Christians" had kept in mind when they persecuted us poor Jews. Does that mean he was a bad man? No, actually, I came to believe he's the son of God. But I could have gone my entire life, believing the wrong thing. Don't get me wrong, I chose to believe it, but it was due to the bias and the hateful society I grew up in that I almost succumbed to hating someone who just wanted people to get along. Lucky me.
And just like that, Cope could raise her children to think God-knows-what about God-knows-who. But is it really their fault if they can't be convinced otherwise, if a certain view was rooted into their mind by their own parent? It would be much less "their choice" than it actually is.
My point was that you can't control what goes on between a parent/guardian and child behind closed doors without invading their privacy. You… more just can't stop that without controlling everyone's lives. If you know of a way, then please tell me.
You can control it, by allowing the child facts and other important resources about the minorities and differences. This is what schools are attempting to provide, people like Cope however are attempting to deny their child these resources and only teach them what they want taught. That's the issue.
I kinda get where you're coming from, but we don't have control over the conclusion our minds come to.
We choose to believe what we find correct. Based on evidence, facts, and other opinions based on the issue at hand. The fact that math is always right...That's not opinions...That's a fact. A fact people base themselves around to choose their opinion. Saying that we can't choose our opi… [view original content]
I'll tell you from experience that I didn't choose to support abortion rights. It's just the logical conclusion I came to that I simply cannot ignore.
You chose that stance based on what you found the most logical evidence.
I leave you one question to think about: what is it that makes a message right or wrong to send to kids?
I can answer that, the one that promotes equality for everyone and allows civility for each other. It's pretty obvious. Telling children they're naturally better than someone else because of small uncontrollable differences is wrong.
I'll tell you from experience that I didn't choose to support abortion rights. It's just the logical conclusion I came to that I simply cann… moreot ignore.
Anyway, I'm tired, and I plan on enjoying my last day of the holidays tomorrow without getting myself into arguments. Before I go, I leave you one question to think about: what is it that makes a message right or wrong to send to kids?
Hmm, after reading the entire thing, you state the stance much better than XboxPlayer did. I had my stance on this in mind when writing but I may not have stated too well. Allow me to try again:
Is it a choice on what someone believes? Absolutely yes...Unless they are brainwashed. If allowed for parents to keep promoting bigoted traditions without a separate viewpoint and facts then they will brainwash the kid into these opinions. Upon then, it is not their choice, unless they are allowed the facts and viewpoints. If they receive these then they will be able to make their opinions and choices with full context. Then it will be choice again.
You are correct about the two examples...The fact that certain ways are promoted without equal justification of a separate viewpoint is correct and all around us, which is brainwashing and other things.
Now, like I was saying, Cope being allowed to raise her children without the separate viewpoints then it will be brainwashing or whatever you want to call it instead of allowing them to make their own choice on the subject.
While you always have the choice of what to believe in, some narratives are at times deeply rooted into our cultural context, or the way our… more parents raised us, or our own personal conscious - all of those sometimes tip the scales over and make people reach illogical (or just different) conclusions, therefore while still their own choice, it is not really their choice.
You mentioned the doctrine of the Nazi people; if you'd go to a local child in Berlin of 1938 and ask him about things such as "Lebensraum im Osten" (the creation of more living space for Germans) and racial superiority, he would not hesitate to tell you that he is superior to some races, as some were considered to be as good as rats, and had the right to their lands, euthanizing them or enslaving them in the process (depending their place on a pre-determined "factual" scale of "racial quality"). He'd also tell you that he can't wait to join the Hitler-Jugend, even though it… [view original content]
It is brainwashing, to a certain degree, but what are we going to do about it? Since we can't exactly castrate people because they're bigoted, the only way I see to minimalize this is through neutral institutions like schools (not religious schools, [I'm actually against any religious studies at schools unless they're done through an academical perspective like in my high-school] but not any kind of extreme schools, whatever agenda it might advocate). I think that in the grand scheme of things... those bigoted people will always be there, we just have to learn to live with them, and remind them what they are and who they follow, what He preached to them and how by hating others they are only veering away from Him, then we can hope that they might respect us as much as we respect them, as people.
On a side note, now that you reminded me of gay people, I have a little rant that might explain why people like Cope are so angry at homosexuals lately:
There have been tons of gay pride parades lately. I think that the gay pride parades are not doing any benefit to the gay people or to anyone else. They're parading around something that is out of their control, as if it's an achievement or something that is supposed to be paraded around in tiny outfits and exaggerated props. Sexuality needs to stop being paraded around for the entire world to see, there are no straight pride parades, if there would be it would just sound ridiculous to most people. What's really bad and unnecessary about this is that it pisses homophobes off even more and pushing them to hate gay people even more, and it isn't really doing anything good besides satisfy gay people who like to stick it to "those dumb religious homophobes".
Gay people are being treated equally and are now just shoving it in the faces of those who (for some odd reason) don't want it to stay that way. So I think that if we stop throwing these gargantuan parades, some of the hate will calm down. Maybe if they would act just a tad bit more subtle instead of parade in grandiose colorful outfits and exaggerate their "gayness" on purpose as a "fuck you" to those who don't like them (that's the image homophobes are getting from these pride parades), it will be easier to understand that they're normal people. It's distancing them from the "conservatives", and to be honest - when I see them, I also feel distanced. I feel like they're not exactly ok; not because they're gay, but because they go out of their way to parade it.
Hmm, after reading the entire thing, you state the stance much better than XboxPlayer did. I had my stance on this in mind when writing but … moreI may not have stated too well. Allow me to try again:
Is it a choice on what someone believes? Absolutely yes...Unless they are brainwashed. If allowed for parents to keep promoting bigoted traditions without a separate viewpoint and facts then they will brainwash the kid into these opinions. Upon then, it is not their choice, unless they are allowed the facts and viewpoints. If they receive these then they will be able to make their opinions and choices with full context. Then it will be choice again.
You are correct about the two examples...The fact that certain ways are promoted without equal justification of a separate viewpoint is correct and all around us, which is brainwashing and other things.
Now, like I was saying, Cope being allowed to raise her children without the separate viewpoint… [view original content]
You ever notice a couple of people quit on August 17, 2014, and they all we're pretty well connected? @Azlyn@WeWillMissYouSarah come to mind. Lot of stuff.
I said how we can fix it, this entire thing was about Cope's reaction to the issue of teaching gender and sexual orientation classes at some public schools lately. She doesn't want her children to learn respect and about gays and trans from schools but rather from her. That's the issue here.
She also just thinks homosexuality is sick and compares it to bestiality and cannibalism.
It is brainwashing, to a certain degree, but what are we going to do about it? Since we can't exactly castrate people because they're bigote… mored, the only way I see to minimalize this is through neutral institutions like schools (not religious schools, [I'm actually against any religious studies at schools unless they're done through an academical perspective like in my high-school] but not any kind of extreme schools, whatever agenda it might advocate). I think that in the grand scheme of things... those bigoted people will always be there, we just have to learn to live with them, and remind them what they are and who they follow, what He preached to them and how by hating others they are only veering away from Him, then we can hope that they might respect us as much as we respect them, as people.
On a side note, now that you reminded me of gay people, I have a little rant that might explain why people like Cope are so angry at homosexuals … [view original content]
You ever notice a couple of people quit on August 17, 2014, and they all we're pretty well connected? @Azlyn @WeWillMissYouSarah come to mind. Lot of stuff.
She doesn't want her children to learn respect and about gays and trans from schools but rather from her.
Well, that's what I said then, she wouldn't be able to give her children what she thinks is "proper education" if all schools were neutral and would teach you those things. Let her think what she thinks, I doubt we can change her mind, what we need to worry about is the next generation. If every school they go to will teach them tolerance, then we're good. They won't suck on their parents' tiddy forever :P
I said how we can fix it, this entire thing was about Cope's reaction to the issue of teaching gender and sexual orientation classes at some… more public schools lately. She doesn't want her children to learn respect and about gays and trans from schools but rather from her. That's the issue here.
She also just thinks homosexuality is sick and compares it to bestiality and cannibalism.
She doesn't want her children to learn respect and about gays and trans from schools but rather from her.
Well, that's what I said t… morehen, she wouldn't be able to give her children what she thinks is "proper education" if all schools were neutral and would teach you those things. Let her think what she thinks, I doubt we can change her mind, what we need to worry about is the next generation. If every school they go to will teach them tolerance, then we're good. They won't suck on their parents' tiddy forever :P
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
If I get in trouble for putting another member on blast, so be it. I understand. But I'm done tiptoeing around this issue.
Cope? Respe… morectful of others' views? Is this some kind of fucking joke?. You must have missed the conversation when she blamed the AIDS epidemic on gay people. Or when she equated homosexuality to incest and cannibalism, or the one where she used homophobic slurs and got banned for it.
[Mod edit: Insult redacted.]
I have a lot of respect for you, xboxplayer. But you might want to save the white-knighting for someone who isn't a big ball of haughtiness and hate speech.
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
I don't want to get into this, but I'm just going to leave it at this. Most of the time she spreads around hurtful opinions, what you say has to have consequences. Don't get mad when people put others on blast for that.
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
If I get in trouble for putting another member on blast, so be it. I understand. But I'm done tiptoeing around this issue.
Cope? Respe… morectful of others' views? Is this some kind of fucking joke?. You must have missed the conversation when she blamed the AIDS epidemic on gay people. Or when she equated homosexuality to incest and cannibalism, or the one where she used homophobic slurs and got banned for it.
[Mod edit: Insult redacted.]
I have a lot of respect for you, xboxplayer. But you might want to save the white-knighting for someone who isn't a big ball of haughtiness and hate speech.
I don't want to get into this, but I'm just going to leave it at this. Most of the time she spreads around hurtful opinions, what you say has to have consequences. Don't get mad when people put others on blast for that.
If Cope doesn't convince them, someone else will. It's not something you can stop. If she's advocating for violence or discrimination against gays, then that's absolutely not okay. However, I have seen her acknowledge that her opinion is no more than that: an opinion.
I don't care if I can't stop it, that's not even what we're talking about. You first said that we need to respect her having an opinion but I'm sorry, I won't respect that in the slightest.
If Cope doesn't convince them, someone else will. It's not something you can stop. If she's advocating for violence or discrimination agains… moret gays, then that's absolutely not okay. However, I have seen her acknowledge that her opinion is no more than that: an opinion.
So, since its her opinion, everything she says should be shielded from criticism? I don't think so.
Besides, most of the hate isn't a reaction to the anti-LGBT remarks, but rather a direct consequence of Cope's mission to insult and/or alienate every member of the forum.
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
My brother is in the room, and I said, "I love my Computer." And He says to me, "Why not marry it? You're clearly out of girlfriends.". It's kinda sad how My 10 year old brother has better comebacks than me.
My brother is in the room, and I said, "I love my Computer." And He says to me, "Why not marry it? You're clearly out of girlfriends.". It's kinda sad how My 10 year old brother has better comebacks than me.
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
Comments
If I get in trouble for putting another member on blast, so be it. I understand. But I'm done tiptoeing around this issue.
Cope? Respectful of others' views? Is this some kind of fucking joke?. You must have missed the conversation when she blamed the AIDS epidemic on gay people. Or when she equated homosexuality to incest and cannibalism, or the one where she used homophobic slurs and got banned for it.
[Mod edit: Insult redacted.]
I have a lot of respect for you, xboxplayer. But you might want to save the white-knighting for someone who isn't a big ball of haughtiness and hate speech.
Aight
k
Well my old PS3 is only 160 GB and it's a real pain to even play other games (Arkham Origins and Last of Us don't even load on the older model), so with the new(ish) 500 GB model I don't have to worry about those problems anymore. And I'm waiting for the 1 TB model of PS4 to come out first and save up on the games for that system. Besides, I still love the PS3. B3
While you always have the choice of what to believe in, some narratives are at times deeply rooted into our cultural context, or the way our parents raised us, or our own personal conscious - all of those sometimes tip the scales over and make people reach illogical (or just different) conclusions, therefore while still their own choice, it is not really their choice.
You mentioned the doctrine of the Nazi people; if you'd go to a local child in Berlin of 1938 and ask him about things such as "Lebensraum im Osten" (the creation of more living space for Germans) and racial superiority, he would not hesitate to tell you that he is superior to some races, as some were considered to be as good as rats, and had the right to their lands, euthanizing them or enslaving them in the process (depending their place on a pre-determined "factual" scale of "racial quality"). He'd also tell you that he can't wait to join the Hitler-Jugend, even though it was a horrible institution. If you'd go to a local girl, she'll tell you her purpose is to breed and warm the bed for her husband, who would be out fighting "necessary" wars.
Actually, here's a more modern example of factual bias as result of the right cultural context, the right time and location: I was raised in Israel, where Jesus Christ is looked down upon, his name was even degraded and twisted in order to make his very being mocked (Yeshua turned into Yeshu, which makes a Hebrew acronym for "May his name and memory be obliterated"). I was raised to hate that person, to think it was his ideology and teachings that "Aryan Christians" had kept in mind when they persecuted us poor Jews. Does that mean he was a bad man? No, actually, I came to believe he's the son of God. But I could have gone my entire life, believing the wrong thing. Don't get me wrong, I chose to believe it, but it was due to the bias and the hateful society I grew up in that I almost succumbed to hating someone who just wanted people to get along. Lucky me.
And just like that, Cope could raise her children to think God-knows-what about God-knows-who. But is it really their fault if they can't be convinced otherwise, if a certain view was rooted into their mind by their own parent? It would be much less "their choice" than it actually is.
thanks man
Ahem I'm back.
You chose that stance based on what you found the most logical evidence.
I can answer that, the one that promotes equality for everyone and allows civility for each other. It's pretty obvious. Telling children they're naturally better than someone else because of small uncontrollable differences is wrong.
Hmm, after reading the entire thing, you state the stance much better than XboxPlayer did. I had my stance on this in mind when writing but I may not have stated too well. Allow me to try again:
Is it a choice on what someone believes? Absolutely yes...Unless they are brainwashed. If allowed for parents to keep promoting bigoted traditions without a separate viewpoint and facts then they will brainwash the kid into these opinions. Upon then, it is not their choice, unless they are allowed the facts and viewpoints. If they receive these then they will be able to make their opinions and choices with full context. Then it will be choice again.
You are correct about the two examples...The fact that certain ways are promoted without equal justification of a separate viewpoint is correct and all around us, which is brainwashing and other things.
Now, like I was saying, Cope being allowed to raise her children without the separate viewpoints then it will be brainwashing or whatever you want to call it instead of allowing them to make their own choice on the subject.
I'm not very eager to have our soldiers killed over petty barbarians, but I guess it's necessary.
I'm eager to hear about ISIS getting its shit rocked.
It is brainwashing, to a certain degree, but what are we going to do about it? Since we can't exactly castrate people because they're bigoted, the only way I see to minimalize this is through neutral institutions like schools (not religious schools, [I'm actually against any religious studies at schools unless they're done through an academical perspective like in my high-school] but not any kind of extreme schools, whatever agenda it might advocate). I think that in the grand scheme of things... those bigoted people will always be there, we just have to learn to live with them, and remind them what they are and who they follow, what He preached to them and how by hating others they are only veering away from Him, then we can hope that they might respect us as much as we respect them, as people.
On a side note, now that you reminded me of gay people, I have a little rant that might explain why people like Cope are so angry at homosexuals lately:
There have been tons of gay pride parades lately. I think that the gay pride parades are not doing any benefit to the gay people or to anyone else. They're parading around something that is out of their control, as if it's an achievement or something that is supposed to be paraded around in tiny outfits and exaggerated props. Sexuality needs to stop being paraded around for the entire world to see, there are no straight pride parades, if there would be it would just sound ridiculous to most people. What's really bad and unnecessary about this is that it pisses homophobes off even more and pushing them to hate gay people even more, and it isn't really doing anything good besides satisfy gay people who like to stick it to "those dumb religious homophobes".
Gay people are being treated equally and are now just shoving it in the faces of those who (for some odd reason) don't want it to stay that way. So I think that if we stop throwing these gargantuan parades, some of the hate will calm down. Maybe if they would act just a tad bit more subtle instead of parade in grandiose colorful outfits and exaggerate their "gayness" on purpose as a "fuck you" to those who don't like them (that's the image homophobes are getting from these pride parades), it will be easier to understand that they're normal people. It's distancing them from the "conservatives", and to be honest - when I see them, I also feel distanced. I feel like they're not exactly ok; not because they're gay, but because they go out of their way to parade it.
You ever notice a couple of people quit on August 17, 2014, and they all we're pretty well connected? @Azlyn @WeWillMissYouSarah come to mind. Lot of stuff.
I said how we can fix it, this entire thing was about Cope's reaction to the issue of teaching gender and sexual orientation classes at some public schools lately. She doesn't want her children to learn respect and about gays and trans from schools but rather from her. That's the issue here.
She also just thinks homosexuality is sick and compares it to bestiality and cannibalism.
I think that was the day the W/e's on your mind thread and Forum of the Dead lounge were merged. It makes sense.
Well, that's what I said then, she wouldn't be able to give her children what she thinks is "proper education" if all schools were neutral and would teach you those things. Let her think what she thinks, I doubt we can change her mind, what we need to worry about is the next generation. If every school they go to will teach them tolerance, then we're good. They won't suck on their parents' tiddy forever :P
Haha, hopefully she won't home school them or anyone with that mentality.
I didn't see what Cope apparently said, and I don't really care. I'm not defending her for any of that. I'm defending her for having a fucking opinion.
An opinion that spreads hatefulness, discrimination, and abuse. It's best not to defend every position just because it's an opinion.
I don't want to get into this, but I'm just going to leave it at this. Most of the time she spreads around hurtful opinions, what you say has to have consequences. Don't get mad when people put others on blast for that.
Thank you for saying this.
"Hurtful opinions"? Do you honestly think that anybody here takes what she says seriously?
Yes, some people can and will.
If Cope doesn't convince them, someone else will. It's not something you can stop. If she's advocating for violence or discrimination against gays, then that's absolutely not okay. However, I have seen her acknowledge that her opinion is no more than that: an opinion.
I don't care if I can't stop it, that's not even what we're talking about. You first said that we need to respect her having an opinion but I'm sorry, I won't respect that in the slightest.
So, since its her opinion, everything she says should be shielded from criticism? I don't think so.
Besides, most of the hate isn't a reaction to the anti-LGBT remarks, but rather a direct consequence of Cope's mission to insult and/or alienate every member of the forum.
And Happy Presidents day to you too.
I... I cannot contain my exitement, THAT WAS THE GREATEST VIDEO I'VE EVER SEEN EVER.
My brother is in the room, and I said, "I love my Computer." And He says to me, "Why not marry it? You're clearly out of girlfriends.". It's kinda sad how My 10 year old brother has better comebacks than me.
Marry it, it'll show him!
There's a difference between expressing an opinion and spreading uneducated, biased and ignorant hate.
Exactly, like I said "You aren't entitled to an opinion. You are entitled to an informed opinion. No one is entitled to ignorance."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WWzgGyAH6Y
It doesn't work like that dude. XD
Ahhhh, I remember that shitstorm. Good times...
Well, not really good per se, but darkly hilarious nonetheless.
Oh...Looks like I have to file for divorce then.
Lot of stuff going there
holy shit
Leaving for 2 weeks for a summer camp, lmao
I'll be back...
Seeya in two weeks!
I really hate the concept of homeschool, it's just silly.