Why not both?
Make it so you have a scene of Kenny and Jane tending to Clementine, all the while she's in pain and drifting in and out of… more consciousness. Eventually, she passes out for good. Cue the flashback sequence.
Maybe a little on the corny side, but I think just about anything would count as an improvement given your uh... disposition on No Going Back, no offense.
I guess, although she didn't do anything extreme until that stunt with the baby. Leaving Sarah in the trailer is unthinkable or completely reasonable. It depends on whether you approach that scenario from a moralistic or realistic point of view. I don't think there was anything else she could have done for her once she fell off the deck.
True, though some could argue that can be even worse at times.
The point is she constantly dodges facing the consequences and doesn't accept responsibility for her more extreme actions.
For dramatic effect i guess and to write him out of the rest of the story because the final Lee/Clem scene wouldn't have worked quite the same had Kenny or even Christa/Omid been present as well
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! I really loved both seasons, and I'm equally excited to find out more about Javier and see the dynamic between him and Clementine. I'm just so damn happy to see Clementine again. She is one of my favorite characters of all time, and I just have a lot of feelings the closer and closer we get to November...
For the sake of having an easy reference available (Also, I kinda wanna do a thread about that topic for characters in general), let's go into her various "crimes":
Shooting Troy and using him as bait after convincing him to stand down and come with her (Somewhat excusable since he was Carver's most antagonistic guard, but still a little too cruel for comfort)
Threatening to leave everyone behind for the herd and nearly doing so for Clementine and Rebecca(She doesn't, but still a red flag)
Asking Rebecca what she's going to do with "it"(Hilariously tactless red flag; I'm telling you, its a delicacy)
Trying to tapdance around looking for Sarah, Luke, and Nick
Pressuring Clementine into leaving Sarah in the trailer(Understable at the time, but harsher in hindsight)
Insisting that Sarah is dangerous with Sarah barely than ten steps behind her (See the sum up below)
Robbing and threatening Arvo (Which leads to pretty much everything that goes wrong in the final episode)
Distracting Luke (which endangers the group and forces Sarah to warn the group instead)
Putting off saving Sarah (Which leads to her death either way; See the sum up below)
Sneaking off while everyone was asleep (See next point)
Being a consequence dodger and refusing to take responsibility for most of the above crimes
Intentionally provoking Kenny (Calling Kenny out is one thing, speaking ill of the dead is another)
Endangering AJ and determinately getting Kenny/Herself killed just to prove a point
I feel like the amount of these that are excusable/forgivable vs. the ones that are actually addressed and payed for is really off. The Sarah thing in general drags Jane down into being Unintentionally Unsympathetic. And that's not counting her general attitude, hypocrisy, self concerned morality, and things like indirectly cheating Bonnie.
I guess, although she didn't do anything extreme until that stunt with the baby. Leaving Sarah in the trailer is unthinkable or completely r… moreeasonable. It depends on whether you approach that scenario from a moralistic or realistic point of view. I don't think there was anything else she could have done for her once she fell off the deck.
This isn't a ground-breaking or unobvious comment, but Carver, in my opinion, was a great antagonist before episode three. While he was defi… morenitely not a mentally-healthy individual, he wasn't evil. I'm not claiming that he was a "good" guy, and black and white words such as "good" or "bad" are not words that I like to throw around, but he wasn't evil.
I liked the relationship he had with Rebecca, and his reasonings for being so adamant about chasing down the Cabin Group. In episode three, I guess he did maintain his admirable qualities, but I preferred them beforehand, before they seemed to go a little bit overboard with them. (Calculating, intelligent, cunning, charismatic, good leadership skills, ect.)They struck a perfect balance with the typical villainous traits. That scene where he came into the cabin with Clem gave me chills the first time playing. CHILLS
We didn't know his life story up to the end of A House Divided, but at that… [view original content]
Well, I didn't think it was good from a moral perspective. I mainly enjoyed their implied background that we received back in All that Remains, and liked the mist surrounding the two. Their goings ons were no doubt shady, but nothing seemed to stretch into an overly digusting and immoral territory.
He likely did not care for Rebecca at this point in the narrative, but what's done is done, and he wanted his kid back. It seemed to me that Rebecca had a consensual affair with Carver, although there were a few moments in later episodes that technically could be linked towards Carver raping Rebecca. (Not my interpretation)
But still, even if you are looking at the "Don't act like you didn't love every second of it" line in episode three, it's still plausible that Carver didn't rape Rebecca. He's a master manipulator, and his words added more fuel to the metaphorical fire: If it was an affair, then Rebecca did make the choice. She did not have the moral high-ground in this scenerio. His words there could be seen as a blackmail of sorts.
I choose to look at things this way, even in episode three, because it adds some grayness to Carver's black morality and I believe that everything here fits his pre-established character and the story.But as for my original comment, I was just thinking of their implied relationship in episode 1 and 2, since I was focusing on early episode Carver.
I mainly enjoyed their implied background that we received back in All that Remains, and liked the mist surrounding the two. Their goings ons were no doubt shady, but nothing seemed to stretch into an overly digusting and immoral territory.
Oh, okay that's better. Honestly, I'm a little 67/33 on the implication that there was molestation involved at some point given that Rebecca and Carver both imply that there was something genuine there at some point, but it apparently went too far and Carver just couldn't let it go, to the point that he threatened to shoot her and the baby before he let them leave him. Still, I wish a lot of the buildup and establishment around Carver had been properly utilized in the episode because he really did come off as just a morally black darwinist to me, with anything resembling manipulation and subtlety going off the roof.
Well, I didn't think it was good from a moral perspective. I mainly enjoyed their implied background that we received back in All that Rema… moreins, and liked the mist surrounding the two. Their goings ons were no doubt shady, but nothing seemed to stretch into an overly digusting and immoral territory.
He likely did not care for Rebecca at this point in the narrative, but what's done is done, and he wanted his kid back. It seemed to me that Rebecca had a consensual affair with Carver, although there were a few moments in later episodes that technically could be linked towards Carver raping Rebecca. (Not my interpretation)
But still, even if you are looking at the "Don't act like you didn't love every second of it" line in episode three, it's still plausible that Carver didn't rape Rebecca. He's a master manipulator, and his words added more fuel to the metaphorical fire: If it was an affair, then Rebecca did make the choice. She did not ha… [view original content]
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Oh absolutely. Alternatively, they could've shipped a black screen for the hour it took to beat it and it'd still be better than what was given.
I guess, although she didn't do anything extreme until that stunt with the baby. Leaving Sarah in the trailer is unthinkable or completely reasonable. It depends on whether you approach that scenario from a moralistic or realistic point of view. I don't think there was anything else she could have done for her once she fell off the deck.
I agree. I wonder how Clementine found her way safely to Christa and Omid later.
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly! I really loved both seasons, and I'm equally excited to find out more about Javier and see the dynamic between him and Clementine. I'm just so damn happy to see Clementine again. She is one of my favorite characters of all time, and I just have a lot of feelings the closer and closer we get to November...
sobs in the corner
The beginning of Episode 2 (S2) with Nick or Pete. An absolutely great scene, one of my favorites of the season.
For the sake of having an easy reference available (Also, I kinda wanna do a thread about that topic for characters in general), let's go into her various "crimes":
Endangering AJ and determinately getting Kenny/Herself killed just to prove a point
I feel like the amount of these that are excusable/forgivable vs. the ones that are actually addressed and payed for is really off. The Sarah thing in general drags Jane down into being Unintentionally Unsympathetic. And that's not counting her general attitude, hypocrisy, self concerned morality, and things like indirectly cheating Bonnie.
I'm pretty sure the after credits scene shows exactly that.
Really?
Well, I didn't think it was good from a moral perspective. I mainly enjoyed their implied background that we received back in All that Remains, and liked the mist surrounding the two. Their goings ons were no doubt shady, but nothing seemed to stretch into an overly digusting and immoral territory.
He likely did not care for Rebecca at this point in the narrative, but what's done is done, and he wanted his kid back. It seemed to me that Rebecca had a consensual affair with Carver, although there were a few moments in later episodes that technically could be linked towards Carver raping Rebecca. (Not my interpretation)
But still, even if you are looking at the "Don't act like you didn't love every second of it" line in episode three, it's still plausible that Carver didn't rape Rebecca. He's a master manipulator, and his words added more fuel to the metaphorical fire: If it was an affair, then Rebecca did make the choice. She did not have the moral high-ground in this scenerio. His words there could be seen as a blackmail of sorts.
I choose to look at things this way, even in episode three, because it adds some grayness to Carver's black morality and I believe that everything here fits his pre-established character and the story.But as for my original comment, I was just thinking of their implied relationship in episode 1 and 2, since I was focusing on early episode Carver.
Oh, okay that's better. Honestly, I'm a little 67/33 on the implication that there was molestation involved at some point given that Rebecca and Carver both imply that there was something genuine there at some point, but it apparently went too far and Carver just couldn't let it go, to the point that he threatened to shoot her and the baby before he let them leave him. Still, I wish a lot of the buildup and establishment around Carver had been properly utilized in the episode because he really did come off as just a morally black darwinist to me, with anything resembling manipulation and subtlety going off the roof.
Why thank you!