The developers had to make Jane hide the baby.
I know a lot of people didn't like what Jane did in the end but I think they had to make her hide the baby because if she had not hid the baby and did nothing wrong, it would sort of be an easier choice to just go with her unless you never liked her or were loyal to Kenny. Almost every piece of hate towards Jane has to do with hiding the baby, so obviously if she hadn't hid the baby, the hate wouldn't be there because a lot of us would of chosen her instead. Jane hadn't really done anything REAL bad to make people hate her in the beginning, and in most playthroughs I've seen, almost everyone likes her in the beginning. So in the end, if Jane had never hid the baby, obviously I can't speak for everyone, but it would of been so easy to choose Jane over Kenny. I think a lot of the players would go with Jane and Kenny's percentages would be low, which the developers probably didn't want, they wanted them to be probably split. We know that Kenny is unstable and not the best person to be around so it definitely would of been a super easy to just go with her but they had to make her do something really bad in order for it be "even" between her and Kenny and so it wouldn't be an easy choice. There had to be a reason to be against her or really not like her by the end, because if not Jane would probably have 80% of players. Telltale would definitely not hand you an easy choice at the end. But all that being said, a lot of people still went with Jane even after she hid the baby, so maybe it wouldn't of even made a difference.
And for all the Luke Vs. Kenny people, they would of done the same thing to Luke, I guarantee. There was nothing to dislike about Luke and if it had been Luke Vs. Kenny, they would of made him do something really bad so it wouldn't be an easy choice to just choose Luke. Actually, any character that would of been pitted against Kenny would of probably had done something super bad at the ending.
Comments
Oh, there were plenty of reasons to not like Jane beforehand. The main reason people would've gone with her anyway is because they just don't wanna be stuck with Kenny anymore, likely because they didn't like him in Season 1 either. Other reasons would be because they fell for the Tragic Loner gimmick hook line n sinker and she upstaged the other characters just by virtue of being different.
In fact, as far as I can tell, people were bound to choose Kenny over her(or maybe even Luke) anyway because he was in Season 1, they had a more extensive history with him, they know firsthand what he's been through, and so his sanity slippage would make them pity him.
Jane did many things that were very bad if not worse than hiding the baby. The baby fiasco was just the cherry on top that earned her a knife in the chest.
It blows my mind how people condemn Kenny to hell for beating on a guy who just ambushed the group and got Luke killed, while forgetting the blatantly evil and sociopathic things that Jane does. She shoots off a guys nuts and let's him get eaten, she leaves a traumatized and defenseless girl behind to be eaten, she robs a crippled kid and leaves us to deal with the fallout, and more. Her survival skills in regards to walkers were on point, but she was completely broken in regards to people and groups.
Jane was a fucking mess. She was broken after leaving her sister to die and wanted Clem to be Jaime. You can even find places where Jame slips up and catches herself talking to you like we're Jaime. And on top of all this stupid shit she also thought she knew Kenny better than Clem after knowing him for just three days, and risked her own life and AJ's just to prove a point and manipulate a young girl into murdering her oldest friend.
She could've stopped the fight at any time with three simple words... "Baby Is alive", thus proving she was a manipulative, death wishing lunatic with a history of bad, selfish, and immoral decisions. I'm so glad she is a nobody walker up in the snow and Kenny and Clem are still having adventures somewhere. People who choose Jane over Kenny blow my mind
In what crazy universe did she do things that were worse than Kenny?
Troy was an asshole and got what he deserved...leaving him to distract the walkers is no different than when good old noble Kenny tells Lee to let the woman suffer so that her pain and torment can distract the walkers.
Leaving Sarah behind...sorta like how Kenny wanted to leave Lilly behind as they were escaping the motel.
Stealing or no stealing we are still attacked.
She was right about Kenny
The baby thing was bad writing and made no sense.
At no time did she ever beat a helpless prisoner....continuously unlike Kenneth.
Nor did she waste time beating Carver to death because you know...Kenny has to have his revenge.
Nor did she get Walter killed...because you know...his one man sniper squad was never going to end in retaliation.
Kenny is the picture you see in a dictionary for the term asshole. He is always going to do things his way...no matter if it gets people killed he will spin it in a way that he looks good to himself. For people to constantly defend this fuck up is just insane.
Imagine he was in your group and got someone you knew killed...he doesn't seem so cool then does he?
I think its actually worse than that: unless there's a story I'm not remembering, she wanted Clementine to NOT be Jaime, something Sarah was unlucky enough to fit. From what I remember, Jaime was implied to be a bit straight-laced, with Jane being the Rebellious Big Sister. When the apocalypse struck, Jaime had a hard time coping with it and lacked the drive to even get outta bed some mornings, which eventually led to a situation where she and Jane were stuck on a rooftop and Jane decided to just leave her behind for not being able to make her jump.
God, the Kenny vs. Jane conflict was so bad.
So, so bad.
The season 2 universe.
There is no denying that Troy was an asshole, I'm just saying that it is a moment of pure ruthlessness and brutality that not even Kenny had inflicted upon another human being. And those two situations are different. Lee and Kenny chose simply to not intervene in a doomed situation with a woman who was clearly bitten, whereas Jane was solely and directly responsible for killing this guy in the most agonizingly painful way imaginable.
Completely different, you should feel ashamed for grasping at straws like this. First difference: Sarah was a defenseless child and Lilly was an armed and fullly grown woman. Second difference: Kenny said that as he was pulling out the RV as bandits and walkers were literally swarming them and they had to leave immediately, Lilly barely made it on and if they had waited they would've died. Whereas Jane was trying to make some kind of life lesson to Clem and say that Sarah was suicidal and not just a traumatized and terrified little girl. And if you stay to save Sarah, you still make it out and nobody gets bitten. They definitely had time to save her but Jane was dead set on leaving her, even just when they found Sarah's glasses she basically gave up.
First of all, Jane steals Arvo's revolver no matter what. And whether you steal the meds or not, she still always grabs him, shoves a gun in his face, and threatens his life. Your argument is invalid, it is Jane's fault no matter which way you try to spin it.
No she really wasn't, at all. The Wellington ending PROVES as much. Kenny was nothing like Carver, he certainly had some rage but ultimately he'd sacrifice himself for the good of the kids which completely proves Jane WRONG.
It was still part of the game so you can't just dismiss your least favorite thing about a character just because "bad writing". What a weak excuse. And the situation made no sense to good people like Kenny but somehow the Jane fanatics can still justify leaving a baby in a walker infested blizzard in order to provoke a fight with a man that you knew was on the brink of a meltdown.
I never said that she did. She did, however, do many things that were worse and less justified. As I said, it makes no sense that Jane, Bonnie, and Mike crucified Kenny for beating an enemy of the group when they spent so much time with Carver, who literally beat little girls for looking at him funny and threw handicapped people off of roofs. The double standards were egregious, Kenny can simply do no good for some people (and before you say anything I can still admit many times when Kenny was in the wrong, I'm not blind).
Well, yeah. Carver invaded his home, killed his friend, abducted him and his loved ones, beat on little girls, and then nearly killed him over nothing and destroyed his eye. Why the fuck shouldn't Kenny take revenge on this man? It was also clear that Rebecca was going to stay and kill Carver as well, so you can't even pin it all on Kenny. And in terms of wasting time, Kenny wasted less time by shooting Carver in the legs and then beating his brains out. Before that happened, literally nobody knew what the fuck to do and Luke was fumbling around about tying him up and shit.
You're just bringing up random Kenny situations that have no relation or bearing to what I was talking about. Jane wasn't in the game at that point so how tf could she get Walter killed. She did other things that were just as reckless and much more immoral.
You clearly have your own convoluted ideas about Kenny (look at your username, you're so biased it isn't even funny), but the Wellington ending proves that he wasn't an asshole and that he was actually the best bet for Clem and AJ to reach safety. The people who disagreed with you weren't murdered by Kenny in one of his rages, they didn't die in the snow looking for Wellington, and they certainly weren't forced by Kenny to leave Wellington when the capacity was full. KENNY LITERALLY SACRIFICES HIMSELF FOR THE KIDS TO BE OKAY. HE IS OKAY WITH GOING INTO THE WILDERNESS WITHOUT SUPPLIES IF WELLINGTON TAKES THE KIDS. HE LOVES THEM AND COMES THROUGH FOR THEM 110%.
I can already tell that there is no convincing you of anything or even meeting you on level ground, you clearly loathe Kenny greatly and nothing I say can change your mind. I merely felt the need to defend myself against your biased logic. Have a good day
Okay , let's take a crack at this:
When she directly endangered a child's life for her own selfish purposes.
The difference that I believe Kenny himself mentioned is that Beatrice had already been bitten several times right in front of them, whereas Jane intentionally castrated Troy specifically to have him be eaten. Both were cold and underhanded, though.
I'd say leaving a melancholic and defenseless technical minor to be devoured by the herd is a step above leaving a phlegmatic and armed grown woman behind with wild bandits (who are in turn under attack from a herd) in terms of sacrifices.
True, but the precursory fact of the matter is that she was the reason they came after the group in the first place.
Obviously.
Eh...debatable, but I get your point. People will still argue that it happened nonetheless, so feel free to chalk it up to a poorly thought out act of unnecessary desperation.
True. I would've liked for her to at least apologize for setting up said prisoner in the first place, but true.
Not quite sure what that has to do with anything, but whatever. She, Mike, and Bonnie clearly didn't give too much of shit anyway since they were the first out the door.
Not to change the subject, but you wanna know what would've been a better plot point to include? I someone actually died at the hands of the Russian Group specifically because she robbed Arvo. Wasted opportunity.
Most of that could apply to Jane as well. The only exception in my opinion would be the asshole.
You're not talking to me, so I'll try to skip this one. He and Jane are both technically guilty of that.
Yeah, she saw Clementine as a Jaime who could take care of herself and wouldn't give up, I guess.
Remember when Jane comes back and saves Kenny from the Russian? She tells Clem, "All I can promise is that I won't abandon you again.... quickly looks at Clem ...which I've never done before btw!". I didn't notice it until recently but she truly thought she came back and saved Jaime for a second. It wasn't even a slip of the tongue like where Kenny calls Clem "Duck", like Jane was literally talking to Jaime for a second.
I think while it wasnt all that smart I buy Jane doing it based on how obsessed she gets with clementine. I think they made quite a morally questionable situation
I suppose. Though, there's a flattering thought; "You can be like a new Jaime--except better!"
Which is a bit of a bold-faced half-truth, but whatever.
You know what, I never thought about it that way. Jane is just a honeydripper, isn't she?
I hate AJ so i don't hate Jane for that.
I think Jane never wanted or expected to have another sister-type relationship after Jaime, she hardened herself and thought she was okay like that. But then Clem comes along and they establish a relationship and I think Jane realizes this and thinks, oh shit I'm scared that the same thing will happen to Clem. So she starts giving Clem advice and tools to survive, eventually even actively coming back to protect her.
Jane sort of abandoned Clem, she was trying to leave without saying goodbye. I would just call it leaving though, like how Glenn left in season 1. I definitely think she was talking to Jaime at that moment though.
I definitely thought so. She was constantly complimenting Clem and telling her these vague moralistic tales, in addition to weird stuff like "hey you
". I noticed it on my first playthrough and it started to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I love how you can defend Kenny...the man is an arrogant idiot who makes the Damn stupidest decisions....you lump Jane in with Bonnie, except Jane was a prisoner as well.
He is so stupid that instead of going back where they know there is baby formula he demand and throws a hissy fit when others are not keen to go find someplace he has no clue as to its location.
And my Random situations are not random when you can put them together and come up with a person who is reckless and self centered. Gets people killed or murders them when it is convenient...and God help you if you do not agree with him.
Poop how can you hate a baby?
Well, at the very least, she was honest about that.
Which makes you wonder why she didn't bother doing the same for Sarah given that she saw her as Jaime 2.0. Hence that thread from a week or two ago.
I was referring to when they were in the herd, but okay.
Like I previously alluded to in other conversations, Jane can easily be interpreted as both a "feminist" icon (particularly in regards to Troy and Kenny) and a yandere.
Maybe that's because you're refusing to see the other side of the coin? Maybe because you're overlooking Jane's and Kenny's actions too much to the point of summing them up to 3-4 words? I can understand why one would choose Kenny, I didn't choose him, but I can. So please, try to see this from another prespective.
Well, his actions are easily condemanble because: 1. beating Arvo was pointless, 2. him taking Arvo to the edge destroyed the whole group, 3. it was cruel and sadistic of him to do so.
I don't know. I guess she should've let him shoot us all? Oh, nooo. Jane killed the guy who was about to murder her and the rest of us? How could she do such a thing? What a monster!!!
Cut the shit. If the game had given you the option to shoot Troy in that moment where he was about to shoot everyone, you wouldn't do it?
Sigh
Look. Do you think that if you were in that situation, you would be a little worried for the walkers seconds away from killing everybody? Jane didn't want to leave Sarah, they just didn't have the time to waste on a psychological session. The girl wasn't moving, every attempt to reach her was failing and everyone was seconds from being eaten alive, are you seriously telling me what she did here had anything to do with cruelty? Do you really think Jane was trying to get Sarah killed? Especially considering that if Clem feels suicidal enough to try and save Sarah, she is the one who stays down and only gets herself to safety after both Sarah and Clementine are safe? tell me, if you truly think like this, why in the hell would Jane try to save Sarah voluntarily at the observation deck? It's such a narrow minded way to see this scene.
Ohh, that's where you're wrong. There's two scenarios; 1. Jane and Clementine rob Arvo or no-one robs anybody. There's no scenario where Jane robs Arvo without your consent, so if someone actually robbed Arvo it was her and you not just her.
And let's forget that Jane had no idea Arvo would ambush our group and actually helps us deal with 'the fallout'!
Let me guess the 'more':
Mhhh, I don't know about that. I'd say Kenny's skills on dealing with people were wayyy worse. Do you remember, when Mike, Jane, Bonnie and determinant Clem voted to go back to Howe's and he basically said 'Fuck yall's opinions, this is my dictatorship, and you all just follow my orders'. Oh and how he gave Arvo various beating which resulted in Mike and Bonnie running away. Or when he screwed up a nice night by wither piston wipe Arvo, or making snarky comments that ruined everyone's mood! Yep, Kenni sis the fream socialite.
Jane on the other hand, seemed to be more considerate when approaching others. Instead of, you know, screaming like a 5 year old, she tries to have everyone vote where they should go. She also askes Clem to try and get Kenny out of his insanity, isntead of giving up on him 10 seconds after he did something she didn't like (like someone we know, right?). And finally, trying to reason with him at the truck by presenting valid points that going to Howe's was better than attempt to find town to which they had not even a direction to.
Oh yes, we know exactly how Jaime and Jane interacted to make such claim, right?
Now this is really stupid. Jaime was a disabled kid who couldn't defend herself and had no motivation to live. If Jane really wanted a replacement to her sister, she would've gone after Sarah, not Clementine, don't ya think? Besides:
Jane agrees with Clementine there. I don't think she though Clem was a version of her sister. Literally nothing in the game implicates that. It's the same as me saying that Clem was replacement Duck for Kenny. It just makes no sense, since Clem was very different from both Jaime and Duck.
Whether, what she did was justifiable or not is up to debate. A debate I'm not willing to have. But remember that what she was trying to prove was proved right. Kenny attacked Jane out of the blue, after she sheathed her knife and told him it had been an accident. WHat if it had been Clem that had accidentaly dropped the baby? That's what she was trying to get across.
And by the way, I think that putting AJ in a car with slightly opened windows is arguable a more safe option that carrying him around in a blizzard.
Ask yourself: if Jane told Kenny that the baby was alive, do you think would he have stopped or that his rage would just increase? Yeah, I'm willing to bet the latter.
So yeah, I think that sums up why a person would choose Jane over Kenny. Hope you understand our choice now, just as I (kinda?) understand yours.
(If you need any more of me rambling about her character, you can read this wall of text.)
(And about the revolver situation and etc. there's more on that, here.)
Why not? just because it's baby? he's not cute to me and Clem will be suffer because of him.
And this right here is why a lot of the stuff involving Jane and (in some cases) Kenny are bullshit.
Actually, that was Walter's place. Kenny and Sarita were explicitly stated as staying with them for a while or so.
Was he? All I remember was that Rebecca was talking about shooting him and Luke didn't want any part in beating him to death.
Now that Ive replayed it, it reminds me again that I really did like Jane and she was one of my favorite characters, sadly I still like Kenny about 5 percent more so I will always choose him. These Kenny vs Jane arguments makes both of them look bad although.
A third reason that applies more broadly is that they appreciated the complexity of the character, and how she acts selflessly the majority of time even though she subconsciously convinced herself that she will always be first in the list.
Kenny is the true star, so the place was his¿
True. Not sure why that didn't come to my mind why typing that.
Oh, so he's one of those assholes who brings ho's back to "they're place" while their roommate is actually the one who pays the rent?
I believe you misunderstood what I was saying.
Kenny is, like, the best character ever, and obviously this means that he outranks Walter; therefore, the lodge was Kenny's¿
We all have hiccups!
Sincere thanks for bringing this to light.
This shows that Jane had failed to realize that there was nothing she could've done to save her sister's life without the latter's cooperation. And that's really tragic; that is what caused her to become guilty and seek the opportunity to do it right a second time with Clementine; even though she had done nothing wrong.
Perhaps she would never have helped Clementine and Rebecca out of the herd in the first place if she had not felt guilty over Jaime's death.
Circumstances, Dabig!
Jane never had the chance to properly interact with Sarah until after the latter's father had been devoured and she had sunk into a state of shock and derealization. The situation at the trailer park paralleled the situation under which Jaime died, and in turn Jane was emotionally triggered as well.
If Clementine is able to pull Sarah back, she continues to suffer of mental blur, which completely negated any of Jane's potential desires to talk to her. Besides, Jane was busy at the observation deck with matters that do not involve this discussion at all.
And then Sarah died.
The purposes, I would say, were two—gaining emotional stability by having company of a relatable kid, and preventing an innocent kid from being at the risk of being put in danger by a volatile man. One of the two would then be considered strictly selfless.
First of all, saying that whether people die by her actions is irrelevant to Jane is inaccurate; she was disgusted after she killed Vitali, even though he was about to kill somebody else. She is also visibly distressed after Sarah dies in all scenarios, regardless of our choices.
Secondly, Jane has shown that she considers other survivors' wishes under situations in which she could have the final say if she wanted, such as in both of Sarah's potential deaths and also when deciding whether to allow the family to take shelter at Howe's. Something that we may also overlook is that, even though she was concerned about the group wasting time during the escape of Howe's, never did she pronounce a word against Kenny taking his sweet time to destroy Carver's face.
I agreed with the majority of what I didn't address.
I believe that Troy did not deserve to be left to be devoured; a merciful bullet to the head would have sufficed after a bullet to the cock, though I don't expect Jane to be merciful to the man who sexually harassed her. Either way, that was, in my opinion, wrong.
I am someone, Iron! Do I qualify?
In my appreciation of the game, this was Kenny momentarily ridding himself of all blame that he carried and placing it on Arvo instead. Every swing and every beat was guilt that he did not dare to recognize as his own; and I am speaking of guilt that was not related to Arvo at all, mainly Katjaa and Duck.
Kenny had fabricated the idea that he was perfect and he did not allow himself one slip-up, so, following this behavior, every wrong made by him had to be caused by somebody else.
I had the wrong impression that you disliked Jane!
That's precisely what we have to avoid. If two people in a discussion fail to recognize the positive traits of both characters and only rely on flimsily pointing out the other's flaws, there is something wrong.
AJ did not decide to be born. Don't you think it is unfair to loath him when he did not have a say on whether he would pop into existence and make her life more difficult?
I am pleasantly surprised that you look at it this way!
There are other reasons. It's like Kenny refers more to him and forgot Clementine. I hate the decision to bring this creature to the story.
This thread is going well.
Well I mean, she had to hide Aj for story reasons. If she didnt then they would have never got into that fight.
In what way did Kenny prefer AJ over Clementine?
I know, just trying to be all realistic/sitcom-y about it.
That was a rhetorical question, sorta. I know why, just raising an excellent point about Jane actually bringing something useful to the group rather than doing things someone else could do and doing things that are either temporary or will cause problems later.
She clearly was sick of having to deal with Kenny by the time she came up with that plan, so getting Clementine away from him was her top priority. She hid AJ in a location that, while certainly visible, didn't guarantee that Clementine or Kenny could find him should her plan completely backfire if he didn't cry. There's also the slim possibility of walker's hearing him as well and trying to break open the window to get at him.
1.The point was more that she's willing to endanger and/or sacrifice a life if it suits her goals: Troy, Sarah, Natasha, Kenny, AJ, and (unintentionally) Luke were all examples of that.
2.Technically, the point was "always gonna do things his/her way." Jane, being an example of the stoic loner archetype, prefers to keep to herself, avoid those she deems a "liability," and will occasionally throw someone else under the bus if it suits her purposes. Whether Kenny is bossy or she is manipulative wasn't the point.
Okay, @IronWoodLover, a few things:
Not really, because he wasn't? Troy was demanding to know what the fuck everyone was doing and he only pointed his gun at Luke because he caught him reaching for his own gun. He could've been less of a dick about it, that's definitely true, but he wasn't planning on actually killing anyone as far as I can tell.
The point of contention comes in with the fact that Jane herself had pacified the dude with the vague explanation he was seeking: they got out of the pin like she had told him that she wanted. She then reminds him that she promised to help him when she got out and that this meant he could come with them. In an oddly considerate moment for the hick, Troy not only lowers his weapon but seems to be genuinely concerned about where they could go before joking that the walker guts makes her smell really bad. Jane then shoots him in the crotch and takes his gun, telling the others that their leaving.
While Troy was certainly an asshole who had given Clementine and Kenny a hard time threw out the episode, he was essentially doing his job and its implied that he and Jane had something going on on the side leading up to this moment, with the idea of freeing Jane being discussed. The fact that she convinced him that she wanted him to leave with her before painfully neutralizing him for the walkers makes it seem like she was just using him and decided that he had outlived that usefulness, a classic villainous trait.
Looking at the situation by itself, yes. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way Jane treated Sarah was an unofficial symbol of people's problems with her. Her stance in that situation was somewhat understandable, but it also reveals Jane's morality in that she's willing to immediately throw away someone for not appealing to her overly pragmatic methods or her desire to avoid her past mistakes. I also reveals that she's very callous about the lives of others, since she clearly had little interest in finding the two/three of them from the get-go and tried to convince Clementine to give up prematurely. All of these traits were consistent issues with Jane's effect on the group. Though, it's worth pointing out that the irony of that situation is that by trying so hard to pressure Clementine to leave, she was doing the same basic thing Clementine herself was doing for Sarah.
As for the observation deck, that is the source of a lot of bitter feelings, but to stay on topic, Jane was the catalyst to that situation in the first place. She made Luke that offer, which he was clearly in no right mind to refuse, which meant he shirked his guard duties. Ironically enough, Sarah ended up being the one to pick up their slack and warned everyone when she saw the herd approaching, which pretty subverted most of Jane's paranoid comments about her at once. Also, she didn't voluntarily go down there to save Sarah: she tried to convince Clementine that Sarah wasn't getting out of that herself and only goes down there when Clementine tells her that they can't just give up on Sarah without trying to help her or when it's clear Clementine won't pull her up due to being worried about Sarah. She could've been the one who fell and only didn't because Luke caught her.
It's worth noting that Jane still jumped Arvo, stuck him up with his own gun, knowingly considered potentially putting his sister at risk, tried to convince Clementine to steal the medicine, and insisted on threatening Arvo before sending him off defenseless and potentially without his sister's medicine. No matter your choice, Jane technically starts the conflict with the Russian Group and thus the eventually destruction of both groups.
Not arguing with the Kenny stuff since it's mostly accurate.