Killing ***** at the end of Season 2 probably is the best option...
Closure wise for Kenny/season 2, and opening wise for season 3. His death in Season 2 was pretty damn tragic, emotional, and heartfelt.
Having Kenny just die from a car crash is really anticlimactic. AND making him suffer at that.
Having him walk off into the distance is also a nice ending, but we know he isn't coming back.
And having Jane kill herself is fine with me. She was barely that important, and she deserved it after manipulating Kenny and Clem. Not sure why anyone is too choked up about her abrupt death.
WHO IS WITH ME?
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I completely agree with everything you just said.
If you go to wellington and leave him, it's an unknown status on Kenny. That's probably the best bet if you think he should've lived on because that way we willl never know what happened and the season 3 ending with him will never exist.
I believe if i knew what was gonna happen, the writers should've had him die in no time left. He made the speech about Katjaa killing herself how it was selfish and you don't kill yourself, you suck it up and help others around you, he then proceeds to either save Christa or Help Ben by not having him turn into a walker which is what Ben was most afraid off. Him, helping those 2 and then getting devoured would be upsetting, but at least he went out fighting and helped the people around him.
I feel like the scene where you kill him right after he kills Jane carries the most emotional impact; having one die and leaving the other behind feels a little awkward. I originally thought it was a little extreme for Clementine, but now it fits perfectly with her current jaded attitude towards the world and other people.
I'm not sure about that. I mean, emotionally speaking, his death in season 2 was better than the atrocity of season 3. On that, you're right. However, character-wise I'm not sure.
No going back: He supposedly dies peacefully (shot in the chest) or very abrupt ( shot in the head). However, in both scenarios, he dies thinking he's a failure, that he failed everybody, that AJ is dead, that he couldn't do anything right , that everybody was against him and even worse, he's killed by the very one he would gave his life for. Those are his last thoughts as he lays in the snow and the cold before ultimately dying. When you think about it, that's horribly sad.
Ties that bind: He definitely has a painful death (car crash then eaten by walkers). However, he dies knowing that both Clem and AJ are alive, that Clem is gonna take care of AJ and that they're still gonna live. He screams even on purpose to the walkers to let them be occupied with him while Clem flees with AJ. That's heroic as hell, and even in his final painful moments, he has the satisfaction and the happiness of knowing he protected these two, like always, until his dead.
Very fair points, but I still stand by my opinion.
I think wellington works best as someone who doesn't really like Kenny but is considering the benefits to all characters
The final shot of kenny on that hill gives his character a better send off and I feel wellington is the best of a bad bunch when it comes to starting season 3. and seeing what happens.
Jane being killed by kenny and clementine forgiving him ive never quite liked but honestly this is the best death Jane can get in the game, she basically proves kenny right though she also faces no consequences for what she does story wise, I always found her realizing what she did was wrong quite a good step but oh well.
In terms of just season 2 I always found wellington or make them leave to be the better endings story wise but that horrible jane scene led to me picking the one that makes sense in continuity
I agree. Staying at Wellington and Kill Kenny, Leave Jane are better endings. None of Jane's endings made sense.
I agree none of them feel like the ending her character should have given her character arc, her being stabbed by kenny is really the best one for her, even if it is abrupt at least it comes at the end of a tense build up with a huge payoff. Leaving her on the road never made sense for me and that death in season 3 is an abomination.
Wellington seems like the best ending for both characters
Also, her character model in Season 3 is goddamn ugly. Believe it or not, Jane deserved to be stabbed.
I dont want to get into kenny vs jane. But the choice is more for clementine is she willing to let kenny murder jane based on their history? Thats the choice I believe they put forward, or is clementine willing to stop kenny.
And then regardless of choice its whether clementine can forgive either character for what they did.
The choice isnt do you like kenny or jane more
Nah. My clementine had very little emotional attachment to Kenny.
In my season one he tried to leave Lee to die and refused to save her from her abductor, and in all playthroughs they never say more than 1 line to each other.
She never liked him in my game, and she made that clear in season 2.
Also for her in that scene in season 2 where she had to choose, it's not really as simple as 'who do I like more' - I based it on the situation and who I thought could be saved and who was too far gone.
It's fine if you loved Kenny, but it really gets my goat when people say that anything other than letting him kill Jane is illogical for her character.
I doubt that. She cried so hard when she shot him.
Please dont derail this into kenny vs jane, I think at this point people are wasting their breath by trying to prove what was right there.
Because she hadn't killed anyone before. And the situation, It's emotionally intense for everyone.
She literally told Luke that she never liked Kenny in episode 2.
You choosing a different ending is fine, but this whole thread smacks of people trying to devalue the opinions of everyone who doesn't love Kenny.
I'm not derailing really, the thread literally says that Jane isn't important and no one should be upset at her death. If anything it's just a bad thread.
Don't say that shit. You know it's optional
Let me ask you this. If you watched his flashback, do you still think he was a bad guy?
For me its more arguing storywise which ending is better for continuity and season 3 continuation and being fair to the characters.
And for me its wellington, kenny and jane both get climatic endings and clem gets an okay scene escaping wellington. Janes other deaths are even worse and I find the alone ending kind of ridiculous
Only if you play it that way.
My clementine chose who she thought was right in the specific situation, and that's how she played the whole game.
It only comes down to 'well I find Kenny more annoying so I'm going to shoot him', for example, if you choose so.
To be totally honest clementine the character clearly likes both kenny and jane based on how she behaves. I know people like to argue she hates one or the other but she doesnt whatsoever, for most of the game based on her canon actions
I know it's optional, we were talking about my clementine...
I don't think he was a bad guy (my clementine didn't like him though as he tried to let lee die and refused to save her), I think he was dangerous and unhinged in a group setting. The flashback didn't change anything - we all knew he was capable of being nice.
If your only evidence that Clementine non-determinantly loved Kenny is because she cried at his death, then surely she loved Jane too, as she cries I believe if you let him kill her?
Fine whatever you both represent the ridiculous side of each fanbase
"CLEMENTINE HATES KENNY/JANE AND WANTS TO KILL THEM LOL, SHE LITERALLY A PSYCHOPATH WHO ENJOYS COMMITTING OR WATCHING MURDER"
Anyway my bad for trying to argue logically in a kenny/jane argument and how clearly difficult clementine as a character find the choice.
Having to kill Kenny felt really good. Too bad the writers don't know what the hell is going on and totally butchered Jane's character. She would never commit suicide in my eyes.
I disagree completely.
My clementine plainly told Luke that she doesn't like him.
Please, please, stop trying to devalue to choices of other people.
If telltale thought it was completely unbelievable that the character of clementine wouldnt love Kenny more than the sun, they wouldn't give us the option to day we disliked him, and they wouldn't have let us end up with anyone other than him.
I'm not saying anyone had no right to like Kenny or pick his endings so I don't know why people seem to be saying that I have no right for my clementine to voice her dislike of Kenny and to pick a different ending.
Please respect the choices of others.
Sorry really but on top of everything else Im not arguing this choice again, its so stupid people are still arguing anymore about it considering season 3. Regardless of the player clementine the character clearly likes kenny and jane in episode 5. The player can like or hate any character they want but clementine the character;s canon actions show her feelings.
Again I really dont want to argue about kenny vs jane anymore
I'm not saying cement hated Kenny all the time, all I'm saying is that in the game clementine's opinion of Kenny is directed by the player, not an absolute narrative choice decided by telltale in advance.
If you love Kenny, great, all the more power to you!
And same for those who don't love him.
Lots of people seem to be arguing that Clementine always loved Kenny and so his ending is the only one that makes narrative sense. I happen to disagree. That's all.
Which Season 2 ending do you think it's better for Season 3?
What?? You do know what I'm trying to argue right?
I'll clarify: I am arguing that whether clementine liked Kenny is decided by the player.
I think everyone has the right to decide for themselves if they like or dislike Kenny, and don't think Telltale intended there to be one right answer.
I find it rather hypocritical that you say it's a choice to say you disliked Kenny (which I never stated otherwise) but then to argue that clementine clearly appreciated Kenny 'no matter what' because in one determinant choice she can say she wouldn't be alive if it weren't for him? Either you think choices determine characterisation or not, you can't argue it both ways when it suits you
I am NOT saying that Clementine hates Kenny in every play through, and I haven't said anything of the sort. If you think I have, feel free to quote me where I implied such!
The alone ending. It works the best writing wise, it doesn't piss any fans of either side off and we get to see far more interactions between Clem and AJ. Not to mention both Kenny and Jane are dead/missing in this ending so all loose ends are properly tied. However it's not just the choice for the "canon" ending that the OP chose that bothers me, it's how blatantly biased and "my opinion is factual" he's acting about it. But whatever. Ya know what they say about the opinions and assholes kinda thing.
I agree but it kinda bothers me that Clem loses her finger even though it's not such a big deal.
I... I really have nothing. This is the blind Jane hating comment that broke me. This is the comment that has so little substance, so little backing and makes so little sense that it completely fried my brain. Fuck it, I hate Jane too now. I literally have nothing to say to defend or criticize her character anymore because of this comment, and it seems blindly hating her is the cool and hip thing to do anyway. Look at how fresh and diggity down I am with the cool kids, Fuck Jane, hahaha right fuck her right?
It's odd how people can argue that death is more closure than "walking off"
If anything Wellington is the most merciful ending to Kenny's story, regardless of how he ends up. He succeeds in his mission to bring the children to relative safety, he gets to say goodbye, he has a chance to survive on his own if he wills it, and he can leave something for Clementine and AJ to inherit (his hat). Perhaps he will die anyway, who knows, but him dying in the snow in a pit-stop is not in any way better than dying in a pile of walkers.
He feels like he's a villain, he realises what Clementine was made to do to stop him, he will never know if Clementine and AJ find the safety he sought and is forced to rely on Jane for their survival, all he can so is reassure Clementine and trust her, say what she needs to hear so she doesn't blame herself. This is not a great ending, not for Clementine and not for Kenny.
When he dies on the side of the road he acts with the same decisiveness he is known for, when he realises he can't move he instantly realises that Clementine and AJ's only chance is for him to attract the walkers. He doesn't ask for a mercy bullet because he doesn't care for what death he gets. What mattered to Kenny, what always mattered to him above all else, is his family. If his final moments are making sure his family gets a fighting chance then I think he would face all the agony the world can throw at him. That's why he kept going. After Duck, after Katjaa, after Sarita. Kenny proved he wasn't just a mad hobo that needed to be put down. Clementine could rely on him since they survive together for the better part of a year. In this ending he can't be sure Clem and AJ are safe, but he can go out making his best efforts towards that goal.
"You stick it out and take care of the folks who matter to you" in his own words.
Dying in season 2 is the absolutely worst end Kenny can face and there is no argument for anything else.
Doesn't mean it wasn't a dialogue choice.
SAVING. PEOPLE. AND. GIVING. TO. CHARITY. DOES. NOT. MAKE. YOU. A. GOOD. PERSON.
I will explain this to the day I fucking die. Yes I know you didn't ask me the question, but I'm so sick of this stupid fucking idea that if you save someone or give to charity or whatever the fuck, you're automatically a good person. If I sacrificed myself to save my brother's life, that doesn't make me a good person. I'd still be a massive cunt like I always am, it's just that I chose to do the right thing.
No. I just meant that Jane being stabbed is better than her commiting suicide. Please, I never wanted anyone to have the same opinion as mine.
Really? I thought it was kinda cool.
I was just joking around really. I mostly got what you meant, despite not agreeing with it. I'm just in a sour, christmas-hating mood and making rude humor. Sorry if I upset you in this comment or the comment I left below.
I should have just brought popcorn with me.
You seemed to be saying that my Clementine disliking Kenny doesn't count because it was a determinant choice. I apologise as I misunderstood.
However I don't think clementine appreciates Kenny regardless of choice and I don't think your evidence supports that.
Firstly she has no reason to appreciate him regardless of choice considering what he can do to her and lee in season 1.
Secondly, you say that her looking at a picture she drew of him shows she appreciates him. I think her emotion in that scene was drawn from looking back at the happier time she had in that group, being able to draw and having a rosier view of the world. I don't believe that it absolutely shows she appreciated him beyond all other interpretation. Regardless even if it DID show that it only shows she appreciated him when he was with his wife and son - and he was much more pleasant at that point.
Her saying he saved her life is determinant so can't be taken as evidence that regardless of choice she appreciated him.
She cries upon saving Jane in my mind because of how emotionally intense and charged the situation is, not because she views Kenny non determinantly as good/worthy of appreciating.
I think everyone should have the right to read season 2 how they choose to. I would never argue that Clementine always appreciated Jane regardless of choice because lots of people, and their clementine's, didn't warn to her at all, and it's the same with Kenny.
I just think we should let people characterise their own clementine's with their choices and readings of the story, rather than having people tell them their clementine disliking Kenny, for example, is invalid, and thus the Jane endings are invalid, which is what the last paragraph of the OP essentially says.
You seemed to be saying that my Clementine disliking Kenny doesn't count because it was a determinant choice. I apologise as I misunderstood.
However I don't think clementine appreciates Kenny regardless of choice and I don't think your evidence supports that.
Firstly she has no reason to appreciate him regardless of choice considering what he can do to her and lee in season 1.
Secondly, you say that her looking at a picture she drew of him shows she appreciates him. I think her emotion in that scene was drawn from looking back at the happier time she had in that group, being able to draw and having a rosier view of the world. I don't believe that it absolutely shows she appreciated him beyond all other interpretation. Regardless even if it DID show that it only shows she appreciated him when he was with his wife and son - and he was much more pleasant at that point.
Her saying he saved her life is determinant so can't be taken as evidence that regardless of choice she appreciated him.
She cries upon saving Jane in my mind because of how emotionally intense and charged the situation is, not because she views Kenny non determinantly as good/worthy of appreciating.
I think everyone should have the right to read season 2 how they choose to. I would never argue that Clementine always appreciated Jane regardless of choice because lots of people, and their clementine's, didn't warn to her at all, and it's the same with Kenny.
I just think we should let people characterise their own clementine's with their choices and readings of the story, rather than having people tell them their clementine disliking Kenny, for example, is invalid, and thus the Jane endings are invalid, which is what the last paragraph of the OP essentially says.
Nah, it's fine. But changing people's opinions bothers me so much. I only want them to just understand what's what.