[...]the story narrative has a set in stone beginning...and an end[...]
Yeah, that's the problem. The stuff between start and end is not set in stone at all, therefore tons of stuff gets cut out or re-written to the point that even the actors of the characters don't know what's going on and are unhappy with the situation. And that's a horrible foundation for a game like this.
Compare it to "The Last of Us", where Ashley and Troy (the main actors) are involved in everything from start to finish. They know exactly what's going on and even have the influence to adjust story-parts and their respective characters. That's a healthy foundation and should be the usual way to approach story-games like these.
Well let's boil it down to what he said...basically the story narrative has a set in stone beginning...and an end...there will be variations… more depending on your choices throughout the game, but nothing that will fully alter the end.
Ok....so how is this different than what we have already known? Season 1...no matter what...Lee dies in the end...we can tailor certain things during our journey...arm...how big a jerk we were...did we shoot Duck...did we steal from the car.
Season 2 ...the end will always come down to whether you can stomach either Kenny or Jane...or neither one.
So for you guys to suddenly yell shenanigans...what game have you been playing all this time? Before S3 came out everyone guessed that Kenny or Jane ain't going to last too long. I swear it is like you have selective amnesia.
These games have always been playable stories and you get to tailor aspects of it along the way...that is how most any game works. I … [view original content]
I mean, I get the thought process, but I think it's a bit different than simply creating a story you want to tell in this case, same as it was in Mass Effect 3. In a new game, yea, go for it. But in the third installment? There's kind of a legacy there, you've got a story that's been unfolding and you're now taking over. There's a large fan base already in place, eager for the next game and waiting to continue the story to continue. Coming in at that point, putting your feet up on the coffee table and saying "it's MY story now!" is just off-putting.
You're inheriting the fans and story of the series, completing changing gears to use an established series as a platform to launch the story you want to tell at the expense of everything that's come before just seems dirty.
It's exactly what I meant. I too was very upset with ME3 ending and was one of those who asked BW to change it, but noooooooooooooooo...
… moreArtistic Integrity.
On the other hand, they have a point. At what point an artist should sacrifice what he/she WANTS to create with how much they're paid? I believe I've read the BW's Dev's blog about this and yeah, their story, their decision. We can only vote with our wallet.
I agree completely. Seeing what happens to Clementine is the only reason to keep playing at this point, even though they've already ruined her to an extent. I got the Kenny ending too, and will probably just consider that to be my "canon" end to the series as well.
Okay, that means "goodbye" then.
I'm so sick of people lying about their products, lying directly in the faces of their fans and customers,… more exploiting definitions to bloat up our expectations. You want to ruin the awesomeness you created with Season 1 and 2? Fine. Go ahead. Upset and scare away everyone who deeply cared about your story, characters, music and artistic details. I won't follow this route. I'll play Season 3 until the end for the sake of Clementine and because I've already bought the whole thing, but then.. that's it. I definitely won't acknowledge Season 3 as a "canon"-sequel. To me, in my heart and mind, Clementine and Kenny's story ended with Season 2. Regardless of what happens on the monitor.
They know about the problems and just don't care. They just say "You don't understand the game", instead of admitting any mistake and the decrease of quality in their games. A year ago, when I stumbled over "The Walking Dead" and l… [view original content]
Season pass wasn't even made available for preorder on the One, and I'm kinda glad it wasn't since enough doubt had grown after that terrible VGA showing/interview and the Michael Bay launch trailer that I wasn't prepared to commit to anything beyond what we got at release by the time the game came out. The season so far really feels out of place in the series, it's basically just using the universe of the first two games to give us a family drama with completely new characters and minimal acknowledgment that this isn't a new franchise or game, there's a lot of history and it's relegated to the background or completely tossed in favor of welcoming the few new people to the series.
I rewatched the S2 launch trailer after ANFs, and it's crazy how much the feel of the game has changed. S2 came in as such a dark, emotional story continuing Clems survival without Lee after a quick recap of the first season, alone. Then we get this action packed mile a minute ANF preview, and we're playing as light hearted goofy Javier and his surprisingly inept family who've somehow survived 4 years, then they meet former protagonist and fan favorite and go on a wild and intense adventure. Is this a sequel or a fan fiction?
Okay, that means "goodbye" then.
I'm so sick of people lying about their products, lying directly in the faces of their fans and customers,… more exploiting definitions to bloat up our expectations. You want to ruin the awesomeness you created with Season 1 and 2? Fine. Go ahead. Upset and scare away everyone who deeply cared about your story, characters, music and artistic details. I won't follow this route. I'll play Season 3 until the end for the sake of Clementine and because I've already bought the whole thing, but then.. that's it. I definitely won't acknowledge Season 3 as a "canon"-sequel. To me, in my heart and mind, Clementine and Kenny's story ended with Season 2. Regardless of what happens on the monitor.
They know about the problems and just don't care. They just say "You don't understand the game", instead of admitting any mistake and the decrease of quality in their games. A year ago, when I stumbled over "The Walking Dead" and l… [view original content]
This is a prime example of the crappy definition-exploit that I hate so much. No, Telltale, slightly different Clementine-textures are NOT "defining" her character. Every Clementine behaves the same way, regardless of any choices in the first two seasons. Fuq you.
I get that we can't have completely different Clementines. I know that Telltale can't give us the amount of freedom that many people want to have, since otherwise they would need to develop multiple versions of the games for different story-directions. But a few real "game-changers" aren't too much to ask for. Like, keeping Jane/Kenny alive to value the decisions of the players and coming up with a different solution in order to keep those characters away from the current story.
Just one simple question:
Imagine a theoretical path the story goes down, as we only have 2/5 episodes currently. What if, at the story's end, Clementine is integral to the story's end in some form and how she acts is dependant on past choices, thus making the story generator and choices in past seasons relevant? Their relevance being something we can only see as the season gets closer to finishing.
I grant people that it's best to not hope for that and it probably won't happen, but the season still remains incomplete and so we don't know how it'll end. They could surprise us. It's kind of like calling a writer bad because they've written one bad story and then judging the rest of their work based on that, despite not having experienced it.
Regardless, I'm tempted to drop Telltale as I'm frustrated with them not being able to get the choices importing over correctly in their games, which I view as integral even if 'they don't matter', so it's not like I'm defending 'them'. I'm just trying to point out that it's not finished and it's best to wait until the end before decrying the entire thing.
Okay, that means "goodbye" then.
I'm so sick of people lying about their products, lying directly in the faces of their fans and customers,… more exploiting definitions to bloat up our expectations. You want to ruin the awesomeness you created with Season 1 and 2? Fine. Go ahead. Upset and scare away everyone who deeply cared about your story, characters, music and artistic details. I won't follow this route. I'll play Season 3 until the end for the sake of Clementine and because I've already bought the whole thing, but then.. that's it. I definitely won't acknowledge Season 3 as a "canon"-sequel. To me, in my heart and mind, Clementine and Kenny's story ended with Season 2. Regardless of what happens on the monitor.
They know about the problems and just don't care. They just say "You don't understand the game", instead of admitting any mistake and the decrease of quality in their games. A year ago, when I stumbled over "The Walking Dead" and l… [view original content]
I get your point. I really do. And a few years back I thought the same way.
But experience is the best teacher, in good and bad ways. This is a bad one. I've seen similar situations many times already and it always played out the same way. I have no reason to believe or hope that Telltale will be different. Especially not since the last two official interviews.
This is a prime example of the crappy definition-exploit that I hate so much. No, Telltale, slightly different Clementine-textures are NOT "… moredefining" her character. Every Clementine behaves the same way, regardless of any choices in the first two seasons. Fuq you.
I get that we can't have completely different Clementines. I know that Telltale can't give us the amount of freedom that many people want to have, since otherwise they would need to develop multiple versions of the games for different story-directions. But a few real "game-changers" aren't too much to ask for. Like, keeping Jane/Kenny alive to value the decisions of the players and coming up with a different solution in order to keep those characters away from the current story.
Just one simple question:
Imagine a theoretical path the story goes down, as we only have 2/5 episodes currently. What if, at the story's end, Clementine is integral to the story's end in s… [view original content]
Like I said, it's quite possible it won't happen. I've also been with them for quite a few years, certainly since TWD S1's release, if not before. I'm also used to interactive stories/rpgs, generally speaking, so I've learnt not to get my hopes up and with writing myself, I kinda don't expect it anyway due to being aware of the inherent problems that come with a branching narrative. It's the same old thing really for every game/company, by and large, with the odd exception that stands out.
I just think it makes more sense withholding final judgement until the whole thing is finished, though criticisng the current episodes is certainly fine.
I get your point. I really do. And a few years back I thought the same way.
But experience is the best teacher, in good and bad ways. This … moreis a bad one. I've seen similar situations many times already and it always played out the same way. I have no reason to believe or hope that Telltale will be different. Especially not since the last two official interviews.
I just dont understand this stupid ass company. All the excuses he gave for not putting in puzzles or have impactful decisions has to be the most stupidest thing i've ever read. "The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue." LOL 6 HOURS. Don't flatter yourselfs telltale, your puzzles are easy as shit and the fact they think we're to retarded to solve it is just a bunch of bullshit just NOT to do it. It makes no sense you had puzzles in season 1 and other games and you really think that was the main problem with your games? Jesus you guys are backwards as fuck. " And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 seasons, we will look at the choices that you made in previous episodes and we'll see how you defined Clementine." Straight up lie wtf telltale(to be fair. they'll probably actually do this in the next 3 eps). "Sure, a lot of fans don't understand that games are not about what's on the monitor, but it's what is hapenning in their heads and hearts." WHAT THE FUCK? I cant believe he said that stupid shit. Now what i dont get at the end of all this is, they have games where there are puzzles(not the best puzzles but at least they're trying) AND games where choices matter. So what? You guys just feel like trying hard on bringing out a good telltale game every now and then but then be completely lazy on some games? This is the problem with this company. Retards man i swear
I just dont understand this stupid ass company. All the excuses he gave for not putting in puzzles or have impactful decisions has to be the… more most stupidest thing i've ever read. "The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue." LOL 6 HOURS. Don't flatter yourselfs telltale, your puzzles are easy as shit and the fact they think we're to retarded to solve it is just a bunch of bullshit just NOT to do it. It makes no sense you had puzzles in season 1 and other games and you really think that was the main problem with your games? Jesus you guys are backwards as fuck. " And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 … [view original content]
He doesn't seem to get that there is a problem with acting in a certain way as a character when the other characters act the same toward you regardless.
I actually just realized that there are different teams working on different projects, if I'm not wrong. The is also clearly hurting them. They really need to slow down and focus on a 1 or 2 games at a time
I just dont understand this stupid ass company. All the excuses he gave for not putting in puzzles or have impactful decisions has to be the… more most stupidest thing i've ever read. "The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue." LOL 6 HOURS. Don't flatter yourselfs telltale, your puzzles are easy as shit and the fact they think we're to retarded to solve it is just a bunch of bullshit just NOT to do it. It makes no sense you had puzzles in season 1 and other games and you really think that was the main problem with your games? Jesus you guys are backwards as fuck. " And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 … [view original content]
Pretty sure they were working on different projects when TWD season 1 was being developed, but look how it turned out. Telltale simply needs to put more effort into their game, and hopefully shape up the people who made all of these huge mistakes occur.
I actually just realized that there are different teams working on different projects, if I'm not wrong. The is also clearly hurting them. They really need to slow down and focus on a 1 or 2 games at a time
Well let's boil it down to what he said...basically the story narrative has a set in stone beginning...and an end...there will be variations… more depending on your choices throughout the game, but nothing that will fully alter the end.
Ok....so how is this different than what we have already known? Season 1...no matter what...Lee dies in the end...we can tailor certain things during our journey...arm...how big a jerk we were...did we shoot Duck...did we steal from the car.
Season 2 ...the end will always come down to whether you can stomach either Kenny or Jane...or neither one.
So for you guys to suddenly yell shenanigans...what game have you been playing all this time? Before S3 came out everyone guessed that Kenny or Jane ain't going to last too long. I swear it is like you have selective amnesia.
These games have always been playable stories and you get to tailor aspects of it along the way...that is how most any game works. I … [view original content]
Finally checked this out, hmmm not good. Also kinda irritated they keep focusing on the game being "tailored" when the games themselves are getting less and less tailored by the second. This game is fast approaching the level of beyond two souls in that its basically a crap movie
Comments
Yeah, that's the problem. The stuff between start and end is not set in stone at all, therefore tons of stuff gets cut out or re-written to the point that even the actors of the characters don't know what's going on and are unhappy with the situation. And that's a horrible foundation for a game like this.
Compare it to "The Last of Us", where Ashley and Troy (the main actors) are involved in everything from start to finish. They know exactly what's going on and even have the influence to adjust story-parts and their respective characters. That's a healthy foundation and should be the usual way to approach story-games like these.
No they won't.
What badge ahaha?
Awww, I'm flattered. ^_^
EDIT: Wait, you're not being sarcastic right?
I mean, I get the thought process, but I think it's a bit different than simply creating a story you want to tell in this case, same as it was in Mass Effect 3. In a new game, yea, go for it. But in the third installment? There's kind of a legacy there, you've got a story that's been unfolding and you're now taking over. There's a large fan base already in place, eager for the next game and waiting to continue the story to continue. Coming in at that point, putting your feet up on the coffee table and saying "it's MY story now!" is just off-putting.
You're inheriting the fans and story of the series, completing changing gears to use an established series as a platform to launch the story you want to tell at the expense of everything that's come before just seems dirty.
I agree completely. Seeing what happens to Clementine is the only reason to keep playing at this point, even though they've already ruined her to an extent. I got the Kenny ending too, and will probably just consider that to be my "canon" end to the series as well.
Season pass wasn't even made available for preorder on the One, and I'm kinda glad it wasn't since enough doubt had grown after that terrible VGA showing/interview and the Michael Bay launch trailer that I wasn't prepared to commit to anything beyond what we got at release by the time the game came out. The season so far really feels out of place in the series, it's basically just using the universe of the first two games to give us a family drama with completely new characters and minimal acknowledgment that this isn't a new franchise or game, there's a lot of history and it's relegated to the background or completely tossed in favor of welcoming the few new people to the series.
I rewatched the S2 launch trailer after ANFs, and it's crazy how much the feel of the game has changed. S2 came in as such a dark, emotional story continuing Clems survival without Lee after a quick recap of the first season, alone. Then we get this action packed mile a minute ANF preview, and we're playing as light hearted goofy Javier and his surprisingly inept family who've somehow survived 4 years, then they meet former protagonist and fan favorite and go on a wild and intense adventure. Is this a sequel or a fan fiction?
Just one simple question:
Imagine a theoretical path the story goes down, as we only have 2/5 episodes currently. What if, at the story's end, Clementine is integral to the story's end in some form and how she acts is dependant on past choices, thus making the story generator and choices in past seasons relevant? Their relevance being something we can only see as the season gets closer to finishing.
I grant people that it's best to not hope for that and it probably won't happen, but the season still remains incomplete and so we don't know how it'll end. They could surprise us. It's kind of like calling a writer bad because they've written one bad story and then judging the rest of their work based on that, despite not having experienced it.
Regardless, I'm tempted to drop Telltale as I'm frustrated with them not being able to get the choices importing over correctly in their games, which I view as integral even if 'they don't matter', so it's not like I'm defending 'them'. I'm just trying to point out that it's not finished and it's best to wait until the end before decrying the entire thing.
I get your point. I really do. And a few years back I thought the same way.
But experience is the best teacher, in good and bad ways. This is a bad one. I've seen similar situations many times already and it always played out the same way. I have no reason to believe or hope that Telltale will be different. Especially not since the last two official interviews.
Like I said, it's quite possible it won't happen. I've also been with them for quite a few years, certainly since TWD S1's release, if not before. I'm also used to interactive stories/rpgs, generally speaking, so I've learnt not to get my hopes up and with writing myself, I kinda don't expect it anyway due to being aware of the inherent problems that come with a branching narrative. It's the same old thing really for every game/company, by and large, with the odd exception that stands out.
I just think it makes more sense withholding final judgement until the whole thing is finished, though criticisng the current episodes is certainly fine.
I just dont understand this stupid ass company. All the excuses he gave for not putting in puzzles or have impactful decisions has to be the most stupidest thing i've ever read. "The thing is that it's hard to attract more people to play classic adventure games. They're enthusiastic about the story, but puzzles stagnate gameplay if players don't understand what they have to do anymore. They may not be able to open a door or find a correct way in labyrinth. In the end they need 6 hours to get to the next scene or to the next dialogue." LOL 6 HOURS. Don't flatter yourselfs telltale, your puzzles are easy as shit and the fact they think we're to retarded to solve it is just a bunch of bullshit just NOT to do it. It makes no sense you had puzzles in season 1 and other games and you really think that was the main problem with your games? Jesus you guys are backwards as fuck. " And you meet 14-year old Clementine during that. If you played first 2 seasons, we will look at the choices that you made in previous episodes and we'll see how you defined Clementine." Straight up lie wtf telltale(to be fair. they'll probably actually do this in the next 3 eps). "Sure, a lot of fans don't understand that games are not about what's on the monitor, but it's what is hapenning in their heads and hearts." WHAT THE FUCK? I cant believe he said that stupid shit. Now what i dont get at the end of all this is, they have games where there are puzzles(not the best puzzles but at least they're trying) AND games where choices matter. So what? You guys just feel like trying hard on bringing out a good telltale game every now and then but then be completely lazy on some games? This is the problem with this company. Retards man i swear
no. the train scene in twd season 1 took me 66 hours straight. i forgot there was another side to the train #Nightmare9990exposed
Like how he lies about Clem being different regarding our choices.
He doesn't seem to get that there is a problem with acting in a certain way as a character when the other characters act the same toward you regardless.
Job says fans don't understand that it's Telltales story and choices don't matter and people are like. AWESOME BRAVO.
You called and I came...two days too late.
I actually just realized that there are different teams working on different projects, if I'm not wrong. The is also clearly hurting them. They really need to slow down and focus on a 1 or 2 games at a time
Pretty sure they were working on different projects when TWD season 1 was being developed, but look how it turned out. Telltale simply needs to put more effort into their game, and hopefully shape up the people who made all of these huge mistakes occur.
I'm not being sarcastic!
That's a relief.
I was thinking "aww, how nice... wait, that is nice, that's not sarcasm right?"
As BlindSniper said, I think this is just people looking for more stuff to be mad at.
Finally checked this out, hmmm not good. Also kinda irritated they keep focusing on the game being "tailored" when the games themselves are getting less and less tailored by the second. This game is fast approaching the level of beyond two souls in that its basically a crap movie
I slowly begin to regret buying the Season Pass.