What would have happened if Clementine never met Jane?
Would Clementine be like how she is in ANF, being badass (Even though she was already) and wanting to be alone rather than being with a group of people where everyone eventually just dies? Would Clementine even survive after season 2 if she didn't learn the things that Jane taught her? Would Clementine learn the skills Jane taught her by someone else? Would Kenny have fought anyone at all in the end of episode 5 if Jane wasn't there? Or would Kenny and Clementine get to Wellington with no violence?
I don't know if anybody made a discussion about this before but I just started thinking about this and I wanted to hear what you guys thought about this so I made a discussion about it.
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I think Jane definitely positively impacted Clementine. The knowledge and clever characteristics Jane passed to Clem were definitely beneficial to her and I believe not many other people could of shaped Clementine to be as hardcore and impenetrable as she is in S3, Jane helped shape Clem to be this way
This sounds truly groundbreaking, but was Jane really a prominent figure of mentor there? Clem has already used this knee trick back on that bridge. She is one smart sweet pea, ingenious and clever enough to figure on her own every other "lesson" that Jane has taught her. Making a fire using a nail file? Wow, I'm sure no one else (for example Christa) ever showed her how to make a fire. TBH none of them lessons was really innovative, it was just the game which tried to quick-build a relationship to get Clem and Jane closer for the final fight between her and Kenny.
That's all I can think of right now at least.
Did she really do that on the bridge? Wow I completely forgot about that. Clementine could probably learn the skills on her own since she did that knee trick on the bridge. But I still feel like Jane taught Clementine something that might have changed her. Jane said that eventually every group falls and that it was better to be alone. It looks like Clementine listened and went alone after that or at least that's what it seems like right now. Clementine also honestly looked kind of shady and cold in the first episode of ANF and reminded me a lot of Jane which is one of the reasons why I wanted a discussion about this. To me without Jane, Clementine would probably be nicer and join a group if she wanted to. But with Jane, Clementine has turned into a more colder and more serious person who would rather be alone and not be with anybody else.
Well Lee taught her the guts trick in the last episode of season 1 but everything else you said is true. Wow this just makes me think even more about what Jane has done for season 2. Kenny could've been killed and Sarah would've been alive. She would've made a big difference if she wasn't there.
It would make perfect sense if Clementine's portrayal in S3 depended on S2 endings. If only...
with Jane - Clem is isolated, focused only on surviving, she avoids contact with others; holds back her emotions and is sceptical or even negative about being with other people and bonding with them.
with Kenny - Clem cares about AJ more than anything else, does whatever it takes to keep him safe and alive; she might be looking for a community or friendly group to join them and create appropriate conditions for AJ to grow up.
She'd be pretty much the same, I believe.
She did but I think she did it more or less on accident, she kicked its knee but never does again until jane tells her, its something consistant with clementine across the first few episodes. Every walker she takes down is in its own way often with great risk and poor planning. Jane taught her a clinical way to kill walkers.
I wouldn't say it is clinical, it's just based on luck. Sure it works for most cases, when walkers are scrawny or rotten, but what if one kick is not enough to knock one down or one time she kicks in the wrong place and the walker just collapses on top of her. What if she missed or slipped. Getting so close to an unpredictable danger is never safe, especially considering Clem's height and weight. Like I said, it's not innovative of Jane to come up with an idea that crawling walker is less dangerous. It's not life-changing lesson for Clem.
Knowing this trick or not, a little girl vs for example zombified Larry is still a game of luck.
Kenny the Mary Sue would've taught Clementine survival and calculus while never hurting her ever, so shed be a happy and tough neeeerd.
She wouldn't know the knee trick though
Clem or Jane?
Isnt her kicking the knee on the bridge a choice though? I seem to remember there also being an option to do something to the walkers head as well
I dunno. To elaborate a bit since I quickly realized my comment was pointless, I'm not exactly sure that we could know what would've happened. Things might've gone the exact same way but with Clem using all of Jane's plans since she knew of the ideas Jane had prior to the actual plan, and instead of a poorly written Kenny Vs. Jane fight we would've gotten the equally poorly written Kenny Vs. Luke. However we all know that the outcome of that fight would be a lot less 60/40 and a lot more 95/5. Kenny being the 5.
Yeah, instead Luke would jump down and fail miserably to help Sarah.
Since when is a dick like Troy being castrated and killed not a good thing? Kek.
*based on the players choices.
I meant she would never have done it with Luke, and he would have had even a little bit of time to warn his people about the walkers. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that they were both vulnerable and they needed a break from it all. But the timing on that was very poor.
Never said it wasn't.
Edited my comment.
Exactly
That's 100% fair actually. Yeah, the situation definitely could've been avoided if they didn't bone.
I know, my point there was mostly a joke (hence the kek afterwards)
Neato my dude.
Oh okay.
I dunno why but that gif made me smile.
If I recall correctly, you have to kick the knee in order to progress. It was another walker you're talking about, with it you got the choice to either pick up a pipe or Luke's machete and then stab that walker in the head, torso or stomach.
Me too lol
Its very possible that I am remembering it wrong, I just feel like I distinctly remember choosing to kick it in the knee over something else because I thought that was the smart thing to do, but maybe I was just seeing things
Dead.
Possibly a better story
Are you talking about Clementine or Sarah?
Eh...not necessarily. On top of having a preexisting fanbase that Kenny's totally living off the nostalgia of, I believe Luke could've been heading down a darker road himself and may've even did exactly what Jane did. Especially once you realize that Jane is more or less a Shadow Archetype of him that seemed to be putting him in a more selfish mindset had she stayed gone.
IIRC she had already done it on the bridge when she was with Luke.
Now when I think about it -- both.
Clem sould still be sad and edgy and Jane would still commit suicide.
She might be in a better place psychologically without Jane manipulating a situation to the point where she has to choose between killing someone she'd spent quite a while with after everything went down and she befriended his son or letting him kill someone who insisted she's doing what's best for her. So probably better off.
Even if she never did it with Luke? Cuz that happened after she met Clem.
It's possible that she would've done it anyway considering Luke may not have been her first creampie in a while.
I'm assuming you think the baby was Troy's?
Or they would just keep waiting for a miracle to happen, just as they had been doing for hours.
Sarah, and possibly Luke, would have both died at the trailer park since Clem would not have been able to even find them on her own or with the incompetent Mike/Bonnie.
Yes. He would instead have shot Luke and possibly everyone else since there was no one there to dissuade him.
Actually, Mike in particular had been itching to go out looking for quite some time.
Apparently not being a Creator's Pet equals incompetent--which is apparently the writer's mindset anyway, so go figureself.
Yet still sat on his butt for hours. One can complain about their homework not being finished yet, but as much as they want to, complaining will still amount to nothing, and the homework still won't be done.
No, they were just not characterized as being competent survivors. Not as much as Jane anyways. And yes, that was the writer's decision to make them less competent, does that make the thesis that their uselessness and inability to handle the situation invalid?
It's definitely possible, at least; it would add a little bit to her behavior. Especially given the vagueness of how long it'd been since Season 2 compared to how long Jane was supposed to be at Howe's.
First off, what the heck happened with that autocorrect at the end of my sentence?
Seriously, why did it add "-self"? That's not even a word! Now, with that out of the way:
Still, it was made relatively clear that Bonnie had been keeping him from doing so in favor of just giving everyone a chance to show up themselves.
Probably, though you're clearly saying that as if it's a matter of them not being able to do anything rather than Jane being portrayed as better than everyone irregardless of their actual ability. Considering they were a member of Carver's inner circle and [originally] a former bandit/scavenger, I'd think they''d be able to handle themselves. Also, (and this really goes to show how superficial things could be written when you actually think about it) Jane was still relatively grounded in her hyper-competence, especially in comparison to the likes of Molly, Michonne, and maybe even fellow Pet Kenny. Despite being so played up as this expert survivalist and stoic badass that I admit to ranking her higher on the Power Level scale than she should've been for quite some time, Jane is just barely above many of the other characters on pure skill and aside from lifting up a chunk of the fucking Observation Deck (which is especially ridiculous considering how she fares against Kenny), she doesn't really do too much that another character couldn't have done had they been been in the right place at the right time or simply given the chance.
So, honestly, I find the notion that they or anyone else couldn't have gone with Clementine to be pretty presumptuous and cynical.
We don't know who's the father for sure.
Not possibly.
For a fact, a better story.