Playing the music on the old record player accompanied by the cutting across of every character was also a great touch, we were able to see how the situation was affecting them
Hey, Alyssa! It's always a pleasure to have you on the forum.
I feel like it is essential—particularly in post-apocalyptic fiction, which… more is full of drama and brutality—that we are reminded that the characters on the screen are people we can relate to. People who have hopes and fears and doubts. People who feel organic and somehow familiar; and thus, people whom we instinctively understand—yet not necessarily like—when the narrative advances.
Something that has always clicked with me are intimate scenes that the playable character shares with others or themselves. Small moments that don't do anything for the overall narrative, yet show us that the person we're controlling is a normal person. It's hard to relate to someone who is constantly jumping between an action scene and a plot development scene, because you reach the end of the game and you realize you never really knew who the playable character was when in non-spectacular conditi… [view original content]
You get it. This is a perfect explanation of what hubs have done for us, and what they can give us if implemented more.
Personally, I didn't mind the S1ep3 train hub, as I found the train puzzle enjoyable enough and relevant to the current problem (though it may have gone on too long with the brakes and switching on each panel.)
Puzzles are a nice addition but I feel it depends on the game or situation. Walking Dead should have some traversal puzzles (how to get to the top of a building, or across a stream) Wolf needs good investigative puzzles (where you need to figure out the culprit of the scene, maybe even include wrong answers that don't lead into fail states)...Just something that fits well into the context of the game.
Too bad I discovered this poll a bit late. Maybe I can still think of something else later today..
Edit: I'd also like to add that we should get some knowledge of what we click on will advance the story. I was very careful and worried with what I clicked on in that first junkyard scene in ANF because I was always worried I'd miss something good.
On a quick note - I see the general consensus as that players liked hubs closer to that of Season 1, where the story would stop and take a b… morereather so that players could digest the drama instead of being moved from one cut scene to another. This is not true only of Walking Dead, but of all Telltale games. In earlier episodes of Season 1, players really loved the Motor Inn freewalk or the Ski Lodge in Season 2. An example of an unsuccessful hub would be the train in Season 1 Ep 3 because the train section slowed it down, but I would not extrapolate from that that players do not like puzzles/extensive hubs, but rather, I would extrapolate that hubs should be saved for "breather" moments while still being added in often to the story. As Kirkman said about earlier TTG TWD games, part of the appeal of Walking Dead is "people hugging and crying", and I feel that more extensive hubs allow for this best.
Something that people really liked from Sea… [view original content]
I would say something, but several others did a much better job than I could ever do. What we want more of are hubs and character moments (w… morehich were often created through hubs) similar to Season 1, or even the Fairbanks house in the Michonne mini series. In an episode like From the Gallows, it just goes from one scene to another, it's so fast paced that we never had a moment to digest everything that happened, and as a result, character deaths are pushed away and forgotten immediately after they happen, we never get to really understand what characters are thinking about certain situations, and the episode feels like a cluster fuck of scenes jumbled together.
Now compare it to an episode like Starved For Help, I think this episode really utilized the effectiveness of hubs. When we first get to the St. John's, we can explore, get a lay out of the farm, interact with the characters, learn how they survived, and learn about their history. Th… [view original content]
Guardians is doing well so far for hubs where there's prompts showing how to continue the adventure so I don't mess up and move on too soon. There are a good number of puzzles that fit the universe and situation of the game, as well as good long conversations [--where you have input to talk instead of listen] where you can choose what to ask or talk about with other characters something I thought was really lacking in ANF. In ANF, it devolved down to: find interactive character, talk to character, character makes a small comment (ex. "I don't trust Conrad right now. He's lost too much.") and the conversation ends,, no opportunity to ask about the current situation, previous events, or random interest in their lives before you came along. ANF's characters in hubs/freewalks simply made a comment to which you listened to and then it was over.
Guardians actually has conversations where you can ask about what a friend is doing, ask about their thoughts on an event, or about what they think you should do next. There are also numerous objects to look at in the Milano and various rooms to go in and explore. None of it is required to advance the story but it is there for immersion and detail. why should you look at the "You are awesome poster"?Because you want more insight into it. You want to know your character's thoughts on it.
I'd say more, but a lot of what I want to say has already been said.. Look at @Blind Sniper's and @MetallicaRules' comments on hubs and their usage.
^ That's a good insight too. As I said in my own post, people want to explore these universes that Telltale makes. Players don't want to just be railroaded through.
An important detail of the hubs that I think was more present in season 1 is allowing for multiple different conversations through multiple … moredifferent conversation starters, not just being railroaded onto one conversation that the player can simply respond to in several ways. This allowed for more character building because you could discuss more without having to focus quite so much on subjects relevant to the plot
Clementine's house, the cabin in season 2, and the ski lodge were the best freewalks imo. Idk there's just something I enjoy about examining personal spaces and imagining past lives. It's sad and human and almost peaceful. I wish there were more interactive objects and they were more descriptive. The few point and click parts of the freewalks in ANF felt like afterthoughts. I also think u guys passed on a golden opportunity to flesh out your characters by not making the Garcia's house and David's house in Richmond freewalks. It would have been cool if we could have gone in the office and different rooms of the motel too and Howe's hardware. Carver has this thriving community and all we see are a few guards??
@Alyssa_TTG If you guys make another Walking Dead Season or a DLC, you need to have bigger and longer hubs and so the player can interact with different characters and get to know them more, most WD fans would agree with me on this one, plus the majority of players, we felt like ANF lacked hubs and character interactions. I did not understand when you did a AMA and told charcater backstorys, example: Ava's. Why was this not put in game, like in actually dialogue. Also in ANF, the puzzles were way too easy, a 10 year old could work it out. Not trying to be harsh but you need to improve on the lack of quality in ANF. It seems like the series has been going downhill in terms of quality of the game. No need to comment on the episode lengths, think most people get the message, many thanks.
Thanks, all, this is really useful data to have. I appreciate the detail of what you liked and why, and a special hat tip to Blind Sniper for identifying the importance of telegraphing the exit condition for hubs clearly so the player feels free to explore.
Well thanks for having asked, and in hope we could see the result in season 4
Oh and Alyssa_TTG can I advice you to get telltale's team to play Colony Wars Vengeance, on ps one (only the vengeance opus not the others) I know it is old and ugly and different because it is not directly a scenario game)
But there is in this game a great "tree of choice" if you play bad or good to some mission it leads you to a specific part of the game, then the ending will be different !
That could inspire your team and maybe help to evoluate your way to create your games !
Choices really matter in Colony Wars Vengeance… well even if it is more like differentes Death haha !
I died on a space jail diyng starved without hope ^^!
Thanks, all, this is really useful data to have. I appreciate the detail of what you liked and why, and a special hat tip to Blind Sniper f… moreor identifying the importance of telegraphing the exit condition for hubs clearly so the player feels free to explore.
I feel like an integral part of these games are the player's choices, and I feel like those should be delved in way more in-game. We are usually given a binary choice. Chose A or Chose B, and I feel like that style of decision making should be kept, but I believe that in the aftermath of our choices, particularly the most "controversial"/extreme ones, we should be given the option to express the reasons why we made such choice, or to express some sort of... middle ground. I believe this could be achieved through hubs.
I know this is kind of difficult to understand (I'm also not the best at expressing myself), but here's an example: during the third episode of Season 1, Long Road Ahead, just after Lilly shoots Carley/Doug, while walking around in the train hub, we get to speak to both Katjaa and Clem about it. We get to express our opinion on the extent of Lilly's guilt, on what the action makes her (Lilly) now, on what we believe is going to happen to her (should you chose to keep her), etc.
I feel like we got to set in stone what we thought about the matter and why we chose what we chose pretty well there.
Additionally, I also liked the Fairbanks house hub in episode 3 of the Michonne Miniseries, mainly because it offered a lot of information about the characters. We could find out Sam's age, the house backstory and how John worked to get it for his family, Sophia's suicide letter... It felt really rewarding to me surfing the hub meticulously and getting all that information all of it. Also, the optional interactions with the characters felt really good. Breaking the news (or not) to Alex, deciding on whether to trust James with a gun (which I believe should've mattered in some way but it's fine nevertheless), reminiscing with Pete about the events and whether his philosophy on people was right or wrong, talking to Paige about the reason why she wanted to leave, listening to Randall's threats... all pretty good quality stuff, it was all involved with the plot. It was ALL interesting.
Finally, a hub I legitimately did not like was the first one in ANF. It was filled with stuff, sure, but I have no idea why it was all there and clickable? We could look at some fuel canisters, poke a mattress, look at an abandoned bus, siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (which is ultimately pointless), among other stuff. This is all irrelevant and added nothing to anything, in my honest opinion.
In that hub, we can also talk to Mariana which was looking for a pencil to write down memories. I can not stress enough how much of a waste this was. I swear to god. I've no idea why a mini-quest of finding Mariana a pencil wasn't included here. It would've been especially great to finding her a pencil get some payoff, considering her death later in the episode. For example, finding something she had written with said pencil during the burial scene in episode 2 (should you stay at the junkyard of course) would've not only felt satisfying but also made the scene way more emotional and special.
Concluding this point, mini quests with pay-off would be extremely welcome. We had them in Season 1 (Carley's batteries and the candy bars in A New Day and finding Molly's videotape in Logan's locker in Around Every Corner) and they were never seen again. A pity.
Thank you for listening to feedback. Really hope some of it is implemented.
IronWoodLover said:
Finally, a hub I legitimately did not like was the first one in ANF. It was filled with stuff, sure, but I have no idea why it was all there and clickable? We could look at some fuel canisters, poke a mattress, look at an abandoned down bus, siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (which is ultimately pointless), among other stuff. This is all irrelevant and added nothing to anything, in my honest opinion.
I disagree, I liked those as I prefer for hubs to have extra bits that exist solely for the sake of immersion without adding anything of overt importance to the narrative. Small interactions like that not only help with passive immersion but also allow for subtle hints of characterization as you see how Lee/Clem/Javi respond to something in passing.
So, yeah, I'll have to respectfully disagree with ya there.
I hope it's not too late to add in some feedback.
I feel like an integral part of these games are the player's choices, and I feel like t… morehose should be delved in way more in-game. We are usually given a binary choice. Chose A or Chose B, and I feel like that style of decision making should be kept, but I believe that in the aftermath of our choices, particularly the most "controversial"/extreme ones, we should be given the option to express the reasons why we made such choice, or to express some sort of... middle ground. I believe this could be achieved through hubs.
I know this is kind of difficult to understand (I'm also not the best at expressing myself), but here's an example: during the third episode of Season 1, Long Road Ahead, just after Lilly shoots Carley/Doug, while walking around in the train hub, we get to speak to both Katjaa and Clem about it. We get to express our opinion on the extent of Lilly's guilt, on what the actio… [view original content]
IronWoodLover said:
Finally, a hub I legitimately did not like was the first one in ANF. It was filled with stuff, sure, but I have no id… moreea why it was all there and clickable? We could look at some fuel canisters, poke a mattress, look at an abandoned down bus, siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (which is ultimately pointless), among other stuff. This is all irrelevant and added nothing to anything, in my honest opinion.
I disagree, I liked those as I prefer for hubs to have extra bits that exist solely for the sake of immersion without adding anything of overt importance to the narrative. Small interactions like that not only help with passive immersion but also allow for subtle hints of characterization as you see how Lee/Clem/Javi respond to something in passing.
So, yeah, I'll have to respectfully disagree with ya there.
Reminiscing about what you just said... I still think the hub (particularly those clickables) were pretty insufferable to go through.
While what you just said is very much true, I think this hub itself failed to do what you just described. I can't say what Javier said about these little things was particularly insightful to his character. Things "Come to papa!", "These tires won't fit the van.", "Penicillin... No use to us.", etc. etc. didn't add anything in particular, at least for me.
IronWoodLover said:
Finally, a hub I legitimately did not like was the first one in ANF. It was filled with stuff, sure, but I have no id… moreea why it was all there and clickable? We could look at some fuel canisters, poke a mattress, look at an abandoned down bus, siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (which is ultimately pointless), among other stuff. This is all irrelevant and added nothing to anything, in my honest opinion.
I disagree, I liked those as I prefer for hubs to have extra bits that exist solely for the sake of immersion without adding anything of overt importance to the narrative. Small interactions like that not only help with passive immersion but also allow for subtle hints of characterization as you see how Lee/Clem/Javi respond to something in passing.
So, yeah, I'll have to respectfully disagree with ya there.
In Season 1 Episode 3, it was a good opportunity to discover why the supplies have been missing.
In Season 1 Episode 1, there was a riveting puzzle about how the group would get out of pharmacy.
In Season 1 Episode 2, we were trying to find out what St.Johns were hiding in the farm. It was a fascinating one cause it was a real puzzle.
In Season 1 Episode 5, Lee scene after you got separated from Omid and Christa was so successfull. This is the kind of action I want to see because its apocalypse and you lost your loved ones and families so game should show sometimes that how it affects people. Lee was angry and took his anger out on walkers. I want to see it more.
In Season 1 Episode 4, after you got bitten by a walker, finally your actions will actually matter. Kenny will either not leave you alone and will be with you or he will doubt your loyalty and you have to convince him or he will be a total douche and doesnt give any shit about Clem.
This is what I wanna see. I wanna see every decision that I made has consequences and actually matters. I wanna see that a character will be a good friend to you or be a total douchebag. In From The Gallows, David will treat you like shit when she find out Kate is missing even if you sided with him and he will treat you like a brother even you leave him when he needed you most. On the other hand, I want to have optional romances. Not forced ones(Javi-Kate).
I want to create a character that actually shows me like I am looking at a mirror.
I want to solve puzzles, I want to discover somethings. Telltale was good because of that.
I want to see more determinant status but I want them more long-lived. For example, determinant characters should be more active and long-lived. They all dying after one episode anyway.
Last thing, I want to attach with characters. Personal and emotional stuff has to be written more carefully. Telltale can hire so many writers who can manage to do that. I know the fact that The Walking Dead is out of reality but at least game should share the manners with reality.
Thanks for asking our opinions about that. I appreciate that kind of effort.
Please God, let Season 4 have bigger hubs and actual characters interactions so the playable protagonist can ask multiple questions like asking them about their feelings, their past, a bit about themselfs and what they think about other characters. If you want to make Season 4 memorable please make the characters like in Season 1 in Season 4, many thanks. The majority of this community and myself thought that ANF lacked all of this above. Talking about Season 4, well... Batman episode 1 just release and it was under 2 hours and 30 minutes and ANF episode 1 was 1 hour and 15 minutes. Please make Season 4 episodes over 2 hours long each as it is The Finale Season! By the way you will gain more costumers by doing this. @Alyssa_TTG
Comments
I totally forgot about that!
Man, I need to play Michonne again.
Everyone is changing their profiles i dont recognize anyone anymore
Basically everything Telltale did to make Season 1 great. If you bring all that back into your games, the company won't be losing so many fans
You get it. This is a perfect explanation of what hubs have done for us, and what they can give us if implemented more.
Personally, I didn't mind the S1ep3 train hub, as I found the train puzzle enjoyable enough and relevant to the current problem (though it may have gone on too long with the brakes and switching on each panel.)
Puzzles are a nice addition but I feel it depends on the game or situation. Walking Dead should have some traversal puzzles (how to get to the top of a building, or across a stream) Wolf needs good investigative puzzles (where you need to figure out the culprit of the scene, maybe even include wrong answers that don't lead into fail states)...Just something that fits well into the context of the game.
Too bad I discovered this poll a bit late. Maybe I can still think of something else later today..
Edit: I'd also like to add that we should get some knowledge of what we click on will advance the story. I was very careful and worried with what I clicked on in that first junkyard scene in ANF because I was always worried I'd miss something good.
Yes! That's a good breakdown of some good hub/narrative balance.
Guardians is doing well so far for hubs where there's prompts showing how to continue the adventure so I don't mess up and move on too soon. There are a good number of puzzles that fit the universe and situation of the game, as well as good long conversations [--where you have input to talk instead of listen] where you can choose what to ask or talk about with other characters something I thought was really lacking in ANF. In ANF, it devolved down to: find interactive character, talk to character, character makes a small comment (ex. "I don't trust Conrad right now. He's lost too much.") and the conversation ends,, no opportunity to ask about the current situation, previous events, or random interest in their lives before you came along. ANF's characters in hubs/freewalks simply made a comment to which you listened to and then it was over.
Guardians actually has conversations where you can ask about what a friend is doing, ask about their thoughts on an event, or about what they think you should do next. There are also numerous objects to look at in the Milano and various rooms to go in and explore. None of it is required to advance the story but it is there for immersion and detail. why should you look at the "You are awesome poster"? Because you want more insight into it. You want to know your character's thoughts on it.
I'd say more, but a lot of what I want to say has already been said.. Look at @Blind Sniper's and @MetallicaRules' comments on hubs and their usage.
^ That's a good insight too. As I said in my own post, people want to explore these universes that Telltale makes. Players don't want to just be railroaded through.
omg yes!! although I doubt there was much personal belongings there beside whatever Arvo's group stashed there.
Clementine's house, the cabin in season 2, and the ski lodge were the best freewalks imo. Idk there's just something I enjoy about examining personal spaces and imagining past lives. It's sad and human and almost peaceful. I wish there were more interactive objects and they were more descriptive. The few point and click parts of the freewalks in ANF felt like afterthoughts. I also think u guys passed on a golden opportunity to flesh out your characters by not making the Garcia's house and David's house in Richmond freewalks. It would have been cool if we could have gone in the office and different rooms of the motel too and Howe's hardware. Carver has this thriving community and all we see are a few guards??
@Alyssa_TTG If you guys make another Walking Dead Season or a DLC, you need to have bigger and longer hubs and so the player can interact with different characters and get to know them more, most WD fans would agree with me on this one, plus the majority of players, we felt like ANF lacked hubs and character interactions. I did not understand when you did a AMA and told charcater backstorys, example: Ava's. Why was this not put in game, like in actually dialogue. Also in ANF, the puzzles were way too easy, a 10 year old could work it out. Not trying to be harsh but you need to improve on the lack of quality in ANF. It seems like the series has been going downhill in terms of quality of the game. No need to comment on the episode lengths, think most people get the message, many thanks.
Thanks, all, this is really useful data to have. I appreciate the detail of what you liked and why, and a special hat tip to Blind Sniper for identifying the importance of telegraphing the exit condition for hubs clearly so the player feels free to explore.
Well thanks for having asked, and in hope we could see the result in season 4
Oh and Alyssa_TTG can I advice you to get telltale's team to play Colony Wars Vengeance, on ps one (only the vengeance opus not the others) I know it is old and ugly and different because it is not directly a scenario game)
But there is in this game a great "tree of choice" if you play bad or good to some mission it leads you to a specific part of the game, then the ending will be different !
That could inspire your team and maybe help to evoluate your way to create your games !
Choices really matter in Colony Wars Vengeance… well even if it is more like differentes Death haha !
I died on a space jail diyng starved without hope ^^!
I hope it's not too late to add in some feedback.
I feel like an integral part of these games are the player's choices, and I feel like those should be delved in way more in-game. We are usually given a binary choice. Chose A or Chose B, and I feel like that style of decision making should be kept, but I believe that in the aftermath of our choices, particularly the most "controversial"/extreme ones, we should be given the option to express the reasons why we made such choice, or to express some sort of... middle ground. I believe this could be achieved through hubs.
I know this is kind of difficult to understand (I'm also not the best at expressing myself), but here's an example: during the third episode of Season 1, Long Road Ahead, just after Lilly shoots Carley/Doug, while walking around in the train hub, we get to speak to both Katjaa and Clem about it. We get to express our opinion on the extent of Lilly's guilt, on what the action makes her (Lilly) now, on what we believe is going to happen to her (should you chose to keep her), etc.
I feel like we got to set in stone what we thought about the matter and why we chose what we chose pretty well there.
Additionally, I also liked the Fairbanks house hub in episode 3 of the Michonne Miniseries, mainly because it offered a lot of information about the characters. We could find out Sam's age, the house backstory and how John worked to get it for his family, Sophia's suicide letter... It felt really rewarding to me surfing the hub meticulously and getting all that information all of it. Also, the optional interactions with the characters felt really good. Breaking the news (or not) to Alex, deciding on whether to trust James with a gun (which I believe should've mattered in some way but it's fine nevertheless), reminiscing with Pete about the events and whether his philosophy on people was right or wrong, talking to Paige about the reason why she wanted to leave, listening to Randall's threats... all pretty good quality stuff, it was all involved with the plot. It was ALL interesting.
Finally, a hub I legitimately did not like was the first one in ANF. It was filled with stuff, sure, but I have no idea why it was all there and clickable? We could look at some fuel canisters, poke a mattress, look at an abandoned bus, siphon gas from abandoned vehicles (which is ultimately pointless), among other stuff. This is all irrelevant and added nothing to anything, in my honest opinion.
In that hub, we can also talk to Mariana which was looking for a pencil to write down memories. I can not stress enough how much of a waste this was. I swear to god. I've no idea why a mini-quest of finding Mariana a pencil wasn't included here. It would've been especially great to finding her a pencil get some payoff, considering her death later in the episode. For example, finding something she had written with said pencil during the burial scene in episode 2 (should you stay at the junkyard of course) would've not only felt satisfying but also made the scene way more emotional and special.
Concluding this point, mini quests with pay-off would be extremely welcome. We had them in Season 1 (Carley's batteries and the candy bars in A New Day and finding Molly's videotape in Logan's locker in Around Every Corner) and they were never seen again. A pity.
Thank you for listening to feedback. Really hope some of it is implemented.
I disagree, I liked those as I prefer for hubs to have extra bits that exist solely for the sake of immersion without adding anything of overt importance to the narrative. Small interactions like that not only help with passive immersion but also allow for subtle hints of characterization as you see how Lee/Clem/Javi respond to something in passing.
So, yeah, I'll have to respectfully disagree with ya there.
I agree, clickable but having no use in the main story can be nice too, like doing noise with the wool mattress
Reminiscing about what you just said... I still think the hub (particularly those clickables) were pretty insufferable to go through.
While what you just said is very much true, I think this hub itself failed to do what you just described. I can't say what Javier said about these little things was particularly insightful to his character. Things "Come to papa!", "These tires won't fit the van.", "Penicillin... No use to us.", etc. etc. didn't add anything in particular, at least for me.
In Season 1 Episode 3, it was a good opportunity to discover why the supplies have been missing.
In Season 1 Episode 1, there was a riveting puzzle about how the group would get out of pharmacy.
In Season 1 Episode 2, we were trying to find out what St.Johns were hiding in the farm. It was a fascinating one cause it was a real puzzle.
In Season 1 Episode 5, Lee scene after you got separated from Omid and Christa was so successfull. This is the kind of action I want to see because its apocalypse and you lost your loved ones and families so game should show sometimes that how it affects people. Lee was angry and took his anger out on walkers. I want to see it more.
In Season 1 Episode 4, after you got bitten by a walker, finally your actions will actually matter. Kenny will either not leave you alone and will be with you or he will doubt your loyalty and you have to convince him or he will be a total douche and doesnt give any shit about Clem.
This is what I wanna see. I wanna see every decision that I made has consequences and actually matters. I wanna see that a character will be a good friend to you or be a total douchebag. In From The Gallows, David will treat you like shit when she find out Kate is missing even if you sided with him and he will treat you like a brother even you leave him when he needed you most. On the other hand, I want to have optional romances. Not forced ones(Javi-Kate).
I want to create a character that actually shows me like I am looking at a mirror.
I want to solve puzzles, I want to discover somethings. Telltale was good because of that.
I want to see more determinant status but I want them more long-lived. For example, determinant characters should be more active and long-lived. They all dying after one episode anyway.
Last thing, I want to attach with characters. Personal and emotional stuff has to be written more carefully. Telltale can hire so many writers who can manage to do that. I know the fact that The Walking Dead is out of reality but at least game should share the manners with reality.
Thanks for asking our opinions about that. I appreciate that kind of effort.
Please God, let Season 4 have bigger hubs and actual characters interactions so the playable protagonist can ask multiple questions like asking them about their feelings, their past, a bit about themselfs and what they think about other characters. If you want to make Season 4 memorable please make the characters like in Season 1 in Season 4, many thanks. The majority of this community and myself thought that ANF lacked all of this above. Talking about Season 4, well... Batman episode 1 just release and it was under 2 hours and 30 minutes and ANF episode 1 was 1 hour and 15 minutes. Please make Season 4 episodes over 2 hours long each as it is The Finale Season! By the way you will gain more costumers by doing this. @Alyssa_TTG
Particularly memorable ones imo:
TWDS1: train, food sharing at motel, and pharmacy
TFTBL: car mechanic store, fiona/sasha's caravan, hyperion lobby area?
Wolf: Bar, the suicide guy's house (dont remember the name lol), strip club