I'm not young so stop assuming because it's obnoxious. And just because I would put others before myself doesn't mean I'd do it for everyone. And people can be heroes. The free will thing doesn't exist comment makes no sense. And yes people just are monsters, like marlon. Some people just are sympathizers of monsters, like you. I'd like to know how much you know about the world since you're grown up. Idk much even though I'm grown up but I'd like to know how much you since you're also grown up.
Ok I feel like you didn't read anything, I basically gave you scientific facts about why I was right, in any case, you seem young and didn't… more discard me saying that you were young so I'm just gonna assume you are.
It's a beautiful way to think, putting yourself before others, even though you need to be careful cause there is a fine line between being heroic, and then just trying to appeal to everyone so they like you.
Every single one of your actions are selfish in nature, it doesn't mean it's bad, It's just a fact, free will doesn't exist.
I don't know you so maybe you are one of the rare people who have so much empathy that they have to endanger their lives for others cause they couldn't live with the burden of not doing it, but even if you were, you are a minority, and even saying that is way too inaccurate, probably 1% of people in the world would have the balls to sacrifice their life for that of a stranger, probably 3% for their… [view original content]
I know about the world through my experience and scientific facts, free will doesn't exist because from the moment you are born you don't choose where you live, you don't choose your genes, and you don't choose the people who will raise you. Everything you do is a result of chemical reactions happening in your brain, and all the the stuff that has happened to you in your life, if free will existed people would all be perfect and everyone would get along with everyone and life would be utopian, but the fact is everyone think differently, because of their education and their genes, you don't choose whether you are brave, empathetic, sensitive, dumb smart or anything. Everything in your life is random, when you make a choice you think YOU make that choice without being influenced but you are influenced by random and everything that defines you whether you like it or not.
Research psychology, nature, and human nature and you will get to the conclusion that you don't choose anything in your life, it's all random. You didn't choose who you are, you didn't choose who to be, you won't choose who you are, your genes and environement defines that for you.
I don't pull that stuff out of my ass, it's not MY opinion, these are just facts about the world, scientific facts that you would know if you took the time to research it yourself.
Saying I'm a sympathizer for monster is the most demeaning thing I have ever heard, yet again you distance yourself from criminals and call them monsters. I don't defend them, they should be punished because for society to work you have to punish them.
I feel like you don't read what I'm writing to you.
I'm not young so stop assuming because it's obnoxious. And just because I would put others before myself doesn't mean I'd do it for everyone… more. And people can be heroes. The free will thing doesn't exist comment makes no sense. And yes people just are monsters, like marlon. Some people just are sympathizers of monsters, like you. I'd like to know how much you know about the world since you're grown up. Idk much even though I'm grown up but I'd like to know how much you since you're also grown up.
After you're born you do have some degree of free will. I'm not going to get into any scientific debates because I'm not adept in that field. I'm just giving my opinions about things and sharing my views and perspective. I'm not going to research anything because this about how I perceive marlon and what I think about him. And from his actions I think he's a monster and I think anyone who sympathizes with marlon sympathize with a monster just marlon in particular though. Not in general.
I know about the world through my experience and scientific facts, free will doesn't exist because from the moment you are born you don't ch… moreoose where you live, you don't choose your genes, and you don't choose the people who will raise you. Everything you do is a result of chemical reactions happening in your brain, and all the the stuff that has happened to you in your life, if free will existed people would all be perfect and everyone would get along with everyone and life would be utopian, but the fact is everyone think differently, because of their education and their genes, you don't choose whether you are brave, empathetic, sensitive, dumb smart or anything. Everything in your life is random, when you make a choice you think YOU make that choice without being influenced but you are influenced by random and everything that defines you whether you like it or not.
Research psychology, nature, and human nature and you will get to the co… [view original content]
I'm on your side regarding this argument. Nothing against the other parties, I kind of get very passionate with my opinions and I know I wouldn't be able to get along with them.
I just proved to you, free will doesn't exist, look you think whatever you want I've made my case I don't care anymore. Although you should be more curious about the world and inform yourself, it's really fun for me maybe not as much for you but you will be much better in arguments if you know about a lot of things in general.
After you're born you do have some degree of free will. I'm not going to get into any scientific debates because I'm not adept in that field… more. I'm just giving my opinions about things and sharing my views and perspective. I'm not going to research anything because this about how I perceive marlon and what I think about him. And from his actions I think he's a monster and I think anyone who sympathizes with marlon sympathize with a monster just marlon in particular though. Not in general.
Well I think a lot of people wouldn't act the way they say they would in real life.
I also get passionate about my opinions usually because I'm like 100% convinced i'm right, I don't mind saying I'm wrong when I'm wrong but I rarely am because I usually try to stay scientific and rational (Jeez I can sound really arrogant xD) . Although I do guess you can't force people to like Marlon, I didn't particularly like him, It's shame he is dead and we won't see him more in depth but you know.
I'm more pissed by ignorant people who calls Marlon monsters and stuff, It's like these people know nothing about the world, you have a right not to like him, but thinking you would be better or thinking he is a monster is just foolish.
I'm on your side regarding this argument. Nothing against the other parties, I kind of get very passionate with my opinions and I know I wouldn't be able to get along with them.
Won't argue with being more informative and yeah being more informative would help with being in arguments I agree with you on those things. Wouldn't know about informing myself being a really fun thing but it might be. I actually don't like getting into arguments because they drag on and everyone involved stands their ground and nothing goes anywhere. For me it's a waste of time. I can't ever recall an argument being fun. That's why I just like to comment about whatever. Every time I find myself in an argument I hope it gets over with quickly but that never happens.
I just proved to you, free will doesn't exist, look you think whatever you want I've made my case I don't care anymore. Although you should … morebe more curious about the world and inform yourself, it's really fun for me maybe not as much for you but you will be much better in arguments if you know about a lot of things in general.
My honest opinion. And to be clear, I largely agree with your individual points, not 100% percent, but mostly. Like I don't really believe in free will and I don't consider Marlon a monster (id consider him a failure as a leader though to be clear). But you acted like an ass and a child to Scythenger . You weren't just passionate. You were an ass and a child.
You'd be the one I'd be avoiding during a get together because of your behavior. You quite clearly don't know how to handle people who disagree with you.
And honestly, I get the impression you have a large amount of classroom knowledge, but no real world experience. Just my opinion.
Anyway... I'm done. I have no desire to participate in this totally out of control conversation (looks at Demonarke).
Well I think a lot of people wouldn't act the way they say they would in real life.
I also get passionate about my opinions usually becau… morese I'm like 100% convinced i'm right, I don't mind saying I'm wrong when I'm wrong but I rarely am because I usually try to stay scientific and rational (Jeez I can sound really arrogant xD) . Although I do guess you can't force people to like Marlon, I didn't particularly like him, It's shame he is dead and we won't see him more in depth but you know.
I'm more pissed by ignorant people who calls Marlon monsters and stuff, It's like these people know nothing about the world, you have a right not to like him, but thinking you would be better or thinking he is a monster is just foolish.
I love arguing and debates, and while It's very rare that someone changes their mind, we often manage to find a middle ground, or at least leave an argument diplomatically.
A little bit harder on the internet since people don't really hold back and don't always try to be polite with you.
I love arguments cause generally you leave smarter than before, and It's always nice to see things from other people's perspectives, in any case, stay curious and have a nice day.
Won't argue with being more informative and yeah being more informative would help with being in arguments I agree with you on those things.… more Wouldn't know about informing myself being a really fun thing but it might be. I actually don't like getting into arguments because they drag on and everyone involved stands their ground and nothing goes anywhere. For me it's a waste of time. I can't ever recall an argument being fun. That's why I just like to comment about whatever. Every time I find myself in an argument I hope it gets over with quickly but that never happens.
Well that's because you don't know me, and also because I already had an argument with this person and she was pretty insultant towards me (or I mixed her up with somebody else, if that's the case my bad)
And I am actually very diplomat, and try to not make people mad at me, again a lot more difficult on the internet.
I do think I have a lot of knowledge, i'm more of an intellectual but suck at manual tasks, in fact It's one of the things I hate most about myself cause I'm very introspective and inside my head and don't always pay attention to what I do .
Also kinda fun you said that to me the second I'm nice to him/her so yeah..
I love arguing and like to make people argue with me, which makes me kinda "mean" sometimes cause I really wanna know more about what the person thinks, it's always interesting to see how other people think you know, but I always try to leave on a nice note.
My honest opinion. And to be clear, I largely agree with your individual points, not 100% percent, but mostly. Like I don't really believe… more in free will and I don't consider Marlon a monster (id consider him a failure as a leader though to be clear). But you acted like an ass and a child to Scythenger . You weren't just passionate. You were an ass and a child.
You'd be the one I'd be avoiding during a get together because of your behavior. You quite clearly don't know how to handle people who disagree with you.
And honestly, I get the impression you have a large amount of classroom knowledge, but no real world experience. Just my opinion.
Anyway... I'm done. I have no desire to participate in this totally out of control conversation (looks at Demonarke).
Very misguided rather than full on psychopath. He showed remorse accidentally killing Brody, panicked, was scared so he blamed Clem to try and get off the hook. He made big mistakes and he should have been punished but i felt he deserved forgiveness. That’s my point of view. No one has to like it
He killed brody and tried to blame it on clem. He gave tenn's sisters away and lied about what happened. That's what f'd up thing marlon did… more. And the f'd up thing marlon was going to do was give up clem and aj. What f'd thing marlon had no problem doing is sacrificing more people. What would you call someone who's screaming at the top of their lungs while waving a gun around? what would you call someone who smirks after shooting someone dead. Clem can get killed by marlon depending on what choices the player makes and marlon gives zero f's about it. One of the options for the player is clem telling aj to run marlon then shoots clem and kills her. Does all of this not say psychopath?
Yep, it’s like with Kenny. Over sensitive people automatically react angrily for the way his character is or mistakes/decisions he makes. Most fail to look at things from the characters point of view before jumping on the hate train. It’s like with Louis as of late. He is shown to show a different side to him in Episode 2, and certain people are so sensitive they now dislike/hate him. Its pathetic.
What pisses me off is the unability for people to put themselves in other people's shoes, and knowing jack shit about psychology or human na… moreture.
Marlon was threatened, forced to surrender his friends, got scared so he didn't tell anybody, killed Brody by accident, got scared again and lied to protect himself.
What does that make him ? A coward, that's all, not a psychopath, not a monster or anything, he was the only one possible to step up and had to be a leader against his will, he was forced to take care of everyone and assume the leadership role so others wouldn't have to. It's not Marlon apologism it's just being smart and objectif, obviously he deserved some kind of justice, but not being murdered. Seriously learn about law and why criminals get to have a lawyer, cause anyone get to have a lawyer, even "good guys" which doesn't exist.
People love to qualify others as monsters just to reassure themselves they would never do anything terrible.
I love arguing and debates, and while It's very rare that someone changes their mind, we often manage to find a middle ground, or at least l… moreeave an argument diplomatically.
A little bit harder on the internet since people don't really hold back and don't always try to be polite with you.
I love arguments cause generally you leave smarter than before, and It's always nice to see things from other people's perspectives, in any case, stay curious and have a nice day.
Does all of this not say psychopath?
Very misguided rather than full on psychopath. He showed remorse accidentally killing Brody, pa… morenicked, was scared so he blamed Clem to try and get off the hook. He made big mistakes and he should have been punished but i felt he deserved forgiveness. That’s my point of view. No one has to like it
true but nobody is born a monster he was a scared kid with people ready to bust the gates and take em all, he made a choice a poor one, i swear people forget what kids are like
Marlon was a horrible person. He wasn't a threat when aj shot him and aj shouldn't have shot him because of that. However marlon saw everyon… moree as expendable. He gave away people in the group and said he'd do it again. Aj misunderstood the situation but he was only a threat because of what marlon did. Aj does feel bad and show remorse though. Vi was right about everything she said about marlon. Clem and aj helped get food and clem helped out clearing the walkers. Clem and aj both contributed to the group. Clem didn't shoot marlon and of course clem is going to defend aj. Aj didn't understand what he did at the time and he's just a child. Marlon's at fault for provoking aj. Marlon was the toxic moron and he didn't deserve any empathy. Aj did the group a favor by killing marlon. Marlon didn't care about what he did. He played the victim role. Empathy should be given to people who deserve it. Not people who feel sorry for themselves for what they … [view original content]
I agree with the group too. I don't want AJ becoming someone like Carver who just kills people left and right. I want him to be good and forgiving like Lee and Clem was. I'm not defending Marlon's actions, but he did what Ben did in Season 1 at the motor inn. Protecting the group through a desperate, bad agreement. It was wrong, but if he hadn't done it, then they'd all be killed or imprisoned.
My Clem went willingly after the vote. Didn't even put up a fight. Was kind of disappointed Louis just sat on his hands, though, but Violet was even more aggro after the twins got taken, so I figured time would fix it.
My philosophy is that everyone deserves at least one chance of redemption or to be forgiven rather than just straight up killing them. Unless someone outright is trying to kill you, then you have no choice
It's not that they don't care. It's that with Marlon dead there's nothing to really address anymore and now they're left with homicidal AJ to be worried about.
Let's try this. Imagine you're cooking food and someone else comes along and starts adding random things to your recipe and ruins it, which sucks, then immediately after that, a grease fire erupts and now your house is burning down around you. What are you going to focus on, the person who ruined your recipe or the fact that there's a fire blazing in your house and you might be killed?
AJ’s trigger-happiness is a more immediate concern to them, yes, but the fact remains that Marlon did something extremely fucked up and it’s… more bizarre that this revelation, which elicited such an emotional reaction from the kids at one point, is just now promptly forgotten, or swept under the rug, by everyone sans Violet. I guess they just don’t care about the twins anymore? idk.
You're not alone. Why would you think the group were wrong for getting mad at what AJ has done? If I were in their shoes, I would have kicked them out as well. Marlon didn't even kill Tenn's sisters, they were just taken away.
If you told Louis to fuck off, you had NO right to say that. AJ killing an unarmed man was never justified. It's like saying Sarah had no right to scream for desperation when she witnessed her father's death.
true but nobody is born a monster he was a scared kid with people ready to bust the gates and take em all, he made a choice a poor one, i swear people forget what kids are like
My philosophy is that everyone deserves at least one chance of redemption or to be forgiven rather than just straight up killing them. Unless someone outright is trying to kill you, then you have no choice
Well.. You know what i'm gonna disagree with you on that one, cause I believe some people are so messed up that giving them a chance might just hurt someone else, like if the guy is a rapist or murdered someone for no reason I don't think he deserves a second chance, cause he is already messed up in the head and we don't have the "science" yet to fix him so until then, you have to contain him to stop him from hurting others.
My philosophy is that everyone deserves at least one chance of redemption or to be forgiven rather than just straight up killing them. Unless someone outright is trying to kill you, then you have no choice
I didn’t say they should get off scot free, without a doubt they should be punished or locked up. I’m basically saying everyone deserves at least one chance to prove he or she can better themselves. Obviously if said person was beyond help as you described then yes, there probably is no point. Maron though definitely could have been helped. He needed to stew in a cell for a long time until he could be trusted again
Well.. You know what i'm gonna disagree with you on that one, cause I believe some people are so messed up that giving them a chance might … morejust hurt someone else, like if the guy is a rapist or murdered someone for no reason I don't think he deserves a second chance, cause he is already messed up in the head and we don't have the "science" yet to fix him so until then, you have to contain him to stop him from hurting others.
I think Marlon could have been trusted, he just wasn't cut out to be a leader, I personally think he would have made a valuable ally especially with his trained dog, he seemed nice and even forgiving towards everyone so I think in a normal position he would have been a "good guy", but he didn't have what it takes to be a leader.
I didn’t say they should get off scot free, without a doubt they should be punished or locked up. I’m basically saying everyone deserves at … moreleast one chance to prove he or she can better themselves. Obviously if said person was beyond help as you described then yes, there probably is no point. Maron though definitely could have been helped. He needed to stew in a cell for a long time until he could be trusted again
Yes, I understood. I was upset as well. It's kinda sad that people want someone to one hundred percent still like them no matter what they do. That's not how real people work. Also, it would be a boring episodes if everyone was just okay with what happened.
Absolutely not! Don't get me wrong, I was saddened Louis voted us out as I'd taken every chance to flirt with him and got him to step up for us but at the same time, I completely understood why he did. Marlon was his best friend and had been for 10 years. He'd known Clem and AJ a few days so ofcourse his loyalty would lie with Marlon. He showed remorse. He was just grieving and needed time and the other boys, whilst perhaps not as close to Marlon as Louis was, were in the same boat.
Violet and Tenn made the most sense to vote for Clem and AJ to stay as they had the deeper connection with the twins. I believe the other vote to stay was from Ruby.
Oh, I perfectly understood.
AJ killed their leader and close friend for years after he'd surrendered and own up to his follies, with the news that the raiders who forced him to do those things are possibly back for more.
All of that happening within less than half an hour is bound to leave some intense, conflicting feelings.
As for how they bounced back from it, I actually thought Louis was just a little too into the hurt feelings initially and that Ruby and Aasim were presented as too indifferent. In fact, I'll just go ahead and say that the overall repercussions of what happened with Marlon and how everyone fells about it on all three levels is another area where the episode skimps on opportunity.
You're not alone. Why would you think the group were wrong for getting mad at what AJ has done? If I were in their shoes, I would have kicke… mored them out as well. Marlon didn't even kill Tenn's sisters, they were just taken away.
If you told Louis to fuck off, you had NO right to say that. AJ killing an unarmed man was never justified. It's like saying Sarah had no right to scream for desperation when she witnessed her father's death.
They didn't treat him like a saint, And that funeral was so weird, like crazyn8ball said I don't understand how no one had anything to say a… morebout Marlon while clearly he was respected and liked by the group.
Maybe that's why I don't really like Violet, cause her reaction seemed super unrealistic to me, like what you instantly side with us and (optionally) cheat on your girlfriend ? Who you know is still alive.
Ok
The thing is this: Marlon was not a Monster. He tried to do what he considered was best for the group, but was ultimately impaired by his flaws of character. Namely his cowardice.
I think that the rest of the Kids could have to understand that in the end, Marlon meant well (is not like he was trading them for booze and weed). Louis reaction is interesting because he arrived to the conclusion that Marlon did what he did because he was alone in dealing with everything: Dealing with the Raiders, Dealing with the Dead, ensuring everyone is safe, that everyone is fed.
That stuff is enough to break adults, I mean , it broke Lilly, and Lilly was Military. Imagine what that pressure could do a child, such as Marlon
The thing is this: Marlon was not a Monster. He tried to do what he considered was best for the group, but was ultimately impaired by his fl… moreaws of character. Namely his cowardice.
I think that the rest of the Kids could have to understand that in the end, Marlon meant well (is not like he was trading them for booze and weed). Louis reaction is interesting because he arrived to the conclusion that Marlon did what he did because he was alone in dealing with everything: Dealing with the Raiders, Dealing with the Dead, ensuring everyone is safe, that everyone is fed.
That stuff is enough to break adults, I mean , it broke Lilly, and Lilly was Military. Imagine what that pressure could do a child, such as Marlon
"However marlon saw everyone as expendable."
He only says that because he's mad. People say things that they don't mean when they are angry. Every teenager or women at one point said that they "Hate you" or " I wish you where dead" to someone. It doesn't mean that is true.
Marlon was a horrible person. He wasn't a threat when aj shot him and aj shouldn't have shot him because of that. However marlon saw everyon… moree as expendable. He gave away people in the group and said he'd do it again. Aj misunderstood the situation but he was only a threat because of what marlon did. Aj does feel bad and show remorse though. Vi was right about everything she said about marlon. Clem and aj helped get food and clem helped out clearing the walkers. Clem and aj both contributed to the group. Clem didn't shoot marlon and of course clem is going to defend aj. Aj didn't understand what he did at the time and he's just a child. Marlon's at fault for provoking aj. Marlon was the toxic moron and he didn't deserve any empathy. Aj did the group a favor by killing marlon. Marlon didn't care about what he did. He played the victim role. Empathy should be given to people who deserve it. Not people who feel sorry for themselves for what they … [view original content]
The thing is, the guy really should've been determinant, every (good) season has had a determinant choice on who lives or not at the end of the first episode. I'm assuming the only reason why the team didn't make Marlon determinant in this case was because they were putting out all their stops on this (now literal) final season and wanted to make the emphasis square solely on Clementine and AJs relationship, at the expense of others around them. (Aside from Louis and Violet I guess, everyone else has basically been portrayed as cannon fodder.) The season could've gone for more variety as well, perhaps making it the first determinant choice within the main series in which you don't pick between two lives but pick if the person in question lives or dies by your hand. (Randall and his predicament was the first similar scenario that came to mind for me, and I guess letting Rufus live or die was choosing if one person lives or dies as well but the guy was far from being a main character.)
Like DabigRG said, the whole funeral and the immediate emotions, or severe lack of, from the group was a big missed opportunity to give the kids some much needed development. While I guess they might've had some sort of proceeding/parting words for Brody and Marlon off-screen and we walked in on the final portion of the funeral, I still wish we would've been able to at least see a bit of their thoughts on the matter, make the immediate aftermath of the funeral a hub to interact with the others idk. Although admittedly I'm pretty sure one of the last things they'd want to do was talk to AJ and Clementine.
"However marlon saw everyone as expendable."
He only says that because he's mad. People say things that they don't mean when they are angry… more. Every teenager or women at one point said that they "Hate you" or " I wish you where dead" to someone. It doesn't mean that is true.
Its isnt consistent with his reaction after everyone finds out, rather to stick to his guns and justify his actions he ended accept blame and even auto-imposing himself exile.
Comments
I'm not young so stop assuming because it's obnoxious. And just because I would put others before myself doesn't mean I'd do it for everyone. And people can be heroes. The free will thing doesn't exist comment makes no sense. And yes people just are monsters, like marlon. Some people just are sympathizers of monsters, like you. I'd like to know how much you know about the world since you're grown up. Idk much even though I'm grown up but I'd like to know how much you since you're also grown up.
These kind of threads make me happy that I'll most likely never meet fellow board members in person.
I know about the world through my experience and scientific facts, free will doesn't exist because from the moment you are born you don't choose where you live, you don't choose your genes, and you don't choose the people who will raise you. Everything you do is a result of chemical reactions happening in your brain, and all the the stuff that has happened to you in your life, if free will existed people would all be perfect and everyone would get along with everyone and life would be utopian, but the fact is everyone think differently, because of their education and their genes, you don't choose whether you are brave, empathetic, sensitive, dumb smart or anything. Everything in your life is random, when you make a choice you think YOU make that choice without being influenced but you are influenced by random and everything that defines you whether you like it or not.
Research psychology, nature, and human nature and you will get to the conclusion that you don't choose anything in your life, it's all random. You didn't choose who you are, you didn't choose who to be, you won't choose who you are, your genes and environement defines that for you.
I don't pull that stuff out of my ass, it's not MY opinion, these are just facts about the world, scientific facts that you would know if you took the time to research it yourself.
Saying I'm a sympathizer for monster is the most demeaning thing I have ever heard, yet again you distance yourself from criminals and call them monsters. I don't defend them, they should be punished because for society to work you have to punish them.
I feel like you don't read what I'm writing to you.
Why ?
Was that a jab on everyone ? Or like some party in particular.
After you're born you do have some degree of free will. I'm not going to get into any scientific debates because I'm not adept in that field. I'm just giving my opinions about things and sharing my views and perspective. I'm not going to research anything because this about how I perceive marlon and what I think about him. And from his actions I think he's a monster and I think anyone who sympathizes with marlon sympathize with a monster just marlon in particular though. Not in general.
I'm on your side regarding this argument. Nothing against the other parties, I kind of get very passionate with my opinions and I know I wouldn't be able to get along with them.
I just proved to you, free will doesn't exist, look you think whatever you want I've made my case I don't care anymore. Although you should be more curious about the world and inform yourself, it's really fun for me maybe not as much for you but you will be much better in arguments if you know about a lot of things in general.
Well I think a lot of people wouldn't act the way they say they would in real life.
I also get passionate about my opinions usually because I'm like 100% convinced i'm right, I don't mind saying I'm wrong when I'm wrong but I rarely am because I usually try to stay scientific and rational (Jeez I can sound really arrogant xD) . Although I do guess you can't force people to like Marlon, I didn't particularly like him, It's shame he is dead and we won't see him more in depth but you know.
I'm more pissed by ignorant people who calls Marlon monsters and stuff, It's like these people know nothing about the world, you have a right not to like him, but thinking you would be better or thinking he is a monster is just foolish.
Won't argue with being more informative and yeah being more informative would help with being in arguments I agree with you on those things. Wouldn't know about informing myself being a really fun thing but it might be. I actually don't like getting into arguments because they drag on and everyone involved stands their ground and nothing goes anywhere. For me it's a waste of time. I can't ever recall an argument being fun. That's why I just like to comment about whatever. Every time I find myself in an argument I hope it gets over with quickly but that never happens.
My honest opinion. And to be clear, I largely agree with your individual points, not 100% percent, but mostly. Like I don't really believe in free will and I don't consider Marlon a monster (id consider him a failure as a leader though to be clear). But you acted like an ass and a child to Scythenger . You weren't just passionate. You were an ass and a child.
You'd be the one I'd be avoiding during a get together because of your behavior. You quite clearly don't know how to handle people who disagree with you.
And honestly, I get the impression you have a large amount of classroom knowledge, but no real world experience. Just my opinion.
Anyway... I'm done. I have no desire to participate in this totally out of control conversation (looks at Demonarke).
I love arguing and debates, and while It's very rare that someone changes their mind, we often manage to find a middle ground, or at least leave an argument diplomatically.
A little bit harder on the internet since people don't really hold back and don't always try to be polite with you.
I love arguments cause generally you leave smarter than before, and It's always nice to see things from other people's perspectives, in any case, stay curious and have a nice day.
Well that's because you don't know me, and also because I already had an argument with this person and she was pretty insultant towards me (or I mixed her up with somebody else, if that's the case my bad)
And I am actually very diplomat, and try to not make people mad at me, again a lot more difficult on the internet.
I do think I have a lot of knowledge, i'm more of an intellectual but suck at manual tasks, in fact It's one of the things I hate most about myself cause I'm very introspective and inside my head and don't always pay attention to what I do .
Also kinda fun you said that to me the second I'm nice to him/her so yeah..
I love arguing and like to make people argue with me, which makes me kinda "mean" sometimes cause I really wanna know more about what the person thinks, it's always interesting to see how other people think you know, but I always try to leave on a nice note.
Very misguided rather than full on psychopath. He showed remorse accidentally killing Brody, panicked, was scared so he blamed Clem to try and get off the hook. He made big mistakes and he should have been punished but i felt he deserved forgiveness. That’s my point of view. No one has to like it
Yep, it’s like with Kenny. Over sensitive people automatically react angrily for the way his character is or mistakes/decisions he makes. Most fail to look at things from the characters point of view before jumping on the hate train. It’s like with Louis as of late. He is shown to show a different side to him in Episode 2, and certain people are so sensitive they now dislike/hate him. Its pathetic.
That was informative. Thank you. You have a nice day too.
I respect your opinion. I agree that he should've been punished. Agree to disagree on marlon deserving to be forgiven.
true but nobody is born a monster he was a scared kid with people ready to bust the gates and take em all, he made a choice a poor one, i swear people forget what kids are like
I agree with the group too. I don't want AJ becoming someone like Carver who just kills people left and right. I want him to be good and forgiving like Lee and Clem was. I'm not defending Marlon's actions, but he did what Ben did in Season 1 at the motor inn. Protecting the group through a desperate, bad agreement. It was wrong, but if he hadn't done it, then they'd all be killed or imprisoned.
My Clem went willingly after the vote. Didn't even put up a fight. Was kind of disappointed Louis just sat on his hands, though, but Violet was even more aggro after the twins got taken, so I figured time would fix it.
My philosophy is that everyone deserves at least one chance of redemption or to be forgiven rather than just straight up killing them. Unless someone outright is trying to kill you, then you have no choice
It's not that they don't care. It's that with Marlon dead there's nothing to really address anymore and now they're left with homicidal AJ to be worried about.
Let's try this. Imagine you're cooking food and someone else comes along and starts adding random things to your recipe and ruins it, which sucks, then immediately after that, a grease fire erupts and now your house is burning down around you. What are you going to focus on, the person who ruined your recipe or the fact that there's a fire blazing in your house and you might be killed?
You're not alone. Why would you think the group were wrong for getting mad at what AJ has done? If I were in their shoes, I would have kicked them out as well. Marlon didn't even kill Tenn's sisters, they were just taken away.
If you told Louis to fuck off, you had NO right to say that. AJ killing an unarmed man was never justified. It's like saying Sarah had no right to scream for desperation when she witnessed her father's death.
I respect your opinion and I agree that no one is born a monster.
That's a good philosophy.
Well.. You know what i'm gonna disagree with you on that one, cause I believe some people are so messed up that giving them a chance might just hurt someone else, like if the guy is a rapist or murdered someone for no reason I don't think he deserves a second chance, cause he is already messed up in the head and we don't have the "science" yet to fix him so until then, you have to contain him to stop him from hurting others.
I didn’t say they should get off scot free, without a doubt they should be punished or locked up. I’m basically saying everyone deserves at least one chance to prove he or she can better themselves. Obviously if said person was beyond help as you described then yes, there probably is no point. Maron though definitely could have been helped. He needed to stew in a cell for a long time until he could be trusted again
I think Marlon could have been trusted, he just wasn't cut out to be a leader, I personally think he would have made a valuable ally especially with his trained dog, he seemed nice and even forgiving towards everyone so I think in a normal position he would have been a "good guy", but he didn't have what it takes to be a leader.
Nah fuck them.
Yes, I understood. I was upset as well.
It's kinda sad that people want someone to one hundred percent still like them no matter what they do. That's not how real people work. Also, it would be a boring episodes if everyone was just okay with what happened.
Absolutely not! Don't get me wrong, I was saddened Louis voted us out as I'd taken every chance to flirt with him and got him to step up for us but at the same time, I completely understood why he did. Marlon was his best friend and had been for 10 years. He'd known Clem and AJ a few days so ofcourse his loyalty would lie with Marlon. He showed remorse. He was just grieving and needed time and the other boys, whilst perhaps not as close to Marlon as Louis was, were in the same boat.
Violet and Tenn made the most sense to vote for Clem and AJ to stay as they had the deeper connection with the twins. I believe the other vote to stay was from Ruby.
Oh, I perfectly understood.
AJ killed their leader and close friend for years after he'd surrendered and own up to his follies, with the news that the raiders who forced him to do those things are possibly back for more.
All of that happening within less than half an hour is bound to leave some intense, conflicting feelings.
As for how they bounced back from it, I actually thought Louis was just a little too into the hurt feelings initially and that Ruby and Aasim were presented as too indifferent. In fact, I'll just go ahead and say that the overall repercussions of what happened with Marlon and how everyone fells about it on all three levels is another area where the episode skimps on opportunity.
Fuck Marlon.
I can sorta see that.
More accurate.
The thing is this: Marlon was not a Monster. He tried to do what he considered was best for the group, but was ultimately impaired by his flaws of character. Namely his cowardice.
I think that the rest of the Kids could have to understand that in the end, Marlon meant well (is not like he was trading them for booze and weed). Louis reaction is interesting because he arrived to the conclusion that Marlon did what he did because he was alone in dealing with everything: Dealing with the Raiders, Dealing with the Dead, ensuring everyone is safe, that everyone is fed.
That stuff is enough to break adults, I mean , it broke Lilly, and Lilly was Military. Imagine what that pressure could do a child, such as Marlon
Fuck, man, you're just making me wish it were possible for Marlon to still have been around more.
"However marlon saw everyone as expendable."
He only says that because he's mad. People say things that they don't mean when they are angry. Every teenager or women at one point said that they "Hate you" or " I wish you where dead" to someone. It doesn't mean that is true.
The thing is, the guy really should've been determinant, every (good) season has had a determinant choice on who lives or not at the end of the first episode. I'm assuming the only reason why the team didn't make Marlon determinant in this case was because they were putting out all their stops on this (now literal) final season and wanted to make the emphasis square solely on Clementine and AJs relationship, at the expense of others around them. (Aside from Louis and Violet I guess, everyone else has basically been portrayed as cannon fodder.) The season could've gone for more variety as well, perhaps making it the first determinant choice within the main series in which you don't pick between two lives but pick if the person in question lives or dies by your hand. (Randall and his predicament was the first similar scenario that came to mind for me, and I guess letting Rufus live or die was choosing if one person lives or dies as well but the guy was far from being a main character.)
Like DabigRG said, the whole funeral and the immediate emotions, or severe lack of, from the group was a big missed opportunity to give the kids some much needed development. While I guess they might've had some sort of proceeding/parting words for Brody and Marlon off-screen and we walked in on the final portion of the funeral, I still wish we would've been able to at least see a bit of their thoughts on the matter, make the immediate aftermath of the funeral a hub to interact with the others idk. Although admittedly I'm pretty sure one of the last things they'd want to do was talk to AJ and Clementine.
I think he meant it.
I dont think he meant it.
Its isnt consistent with his reaction after everyone finds out, rather to stick to his guns and justify his actions he ended accept blame and even auto-imposing himself exile.