Her story about Larry made sense plotwise because she wanted to explain what would happend if the kids stepped out of line. I fail to see how Clem telling Lilly about season 2 would do the same. HOWEVER, I would have liked to see Clem trigger Lilly by mentioning how great Kenny was, like you said.
Literally all they've fucking referenced is season 1,that's all they fucking ever do in this game,it's like season 2 never existed.
What … moreabout the wellington ending ? Like give us a dialogue option to talk about Kenny to lilly to trigger her or whatever i don't fucking know man,she got like 15 minutes of screentime and told us some shitty story about her father,wow epic what an interesting villain.
Her story about Larry made sense plotwise because she wanted to explain what would happend if the kids stepped out of line. I fail to see ho… morew Clem telling Lilly about season 2 would do the same. HOWEVER, I would have liked to see Clem trigger Lilly by mentioning how great Kenny was, like you said.
Watched Swingpoynt playing Episode 4 and I'd say she had it coming. I wouldn't have let her live another day. Lilly deserved to die for what she did to Carley/Doug and for kidnapping and brainwashing kids for a war.
EDIT: But I agree, her screentime was just short and God knows what Skybound is going to do with her in Finale if she is spared.
It just baffles me that Telltale is more than happy to shove terrible characters down our throats (Kate, Gabe, Michonne's daughters) and couldn't be bothered to give us 10 minutes of Lily.
I've been thinking for a while now they are going to make Christa the leader of the people the Delta are fighting for an "lol xd plot twist" and the game probably ends right there and we dont get to talk to Christa lmao
I agree. To me it feels like Telltale (or Still Not Bitten Team now) just dont understand how to write legacy characters. Only time I feel like they got it right was Kenny in season 2. Granted its a bit annoying for people who didnt like Kenny, but atleast he had screen time and actually felt like a continuation of his character. After that it went downhill.
I dont understand the idea behind it. These are characters fans know and love and I want to see them explored. Kenny is arguably the most popular character after Lee and Clem, and he dies in ANF like no one gave a fuck about him. Now with Lilly, same thing her return had fans on edge wanting to see her character again, and instead shes barely in it and then dies. It feels like she was only in it to sell copies so they could market the game saying Lilly returns and shit. I find it hard to believe the writers and directors honestly thought this would be a good ending to Lilly not to mention where the episode ends, episode 4 feels like it will be aimless, which is not what I think anyone wants for the last Telltale Walking Dead episode ever. I want a good ending, not shit, which Telltale has been doing lately. Like Batman Season 2's ending is fucking shit, same basic ass music they always play, basic ass scene happening, then camera cuts to black and the music awkwardly cuts off. Its shit, and I really dont want this series to end in such a shit way.
Also what is up with Telltale killing the antagonist halfway through the fucking season? They've done this so many times now. Main bad guy dies, or theres suddenly a new bad guy who takes over. Like theres a reason why Walking Dead Season 1, Tales from the Borderlands, and Wolf Among Us are good, they never have a focus on "Hero vs Villain" the whole game, and then kill the bad guy before episode 5. They focus on something else so the villain is more of background noise. But for some reason other games just do the "YOU VS BAD GUY" and then bad guy just dies midway and now the season is aimless.
I think you hit the nail on the head entirely. I got really carried away on this reply but this rant has been festering for a while, sorry :… morec
Considering how hyped up they made Lilly's return, I was pretty shocked when the option came up to shoot her. I'll be entirely honest when I pressed it just to see what would happen, only to go "WAIT HE ACTUALLY SHOT HER" when that happened. Kinda like how I tried to shoot her with the bow at the end of episode two, and she just rolls out the way, I was expecting some Mickey Mouse bullshit to happen if you told AJ to shoot. But, nah fam, she ded. What a waste. And, with the determinant curse - spooooooooky! - I think it's safe to say she has gone the way of the Kenny. Jane. Luke. Lee dodo. She is an EX Lilly, now.
It's also a real kick in the balls, considering how I was on her side to a worrying degree in season one - mostly because I struggled to get along with Kenny, in a major way - only to ha… [view original content]
Lily's character problem isn't people wanting her to be "friendly" or anything like that. Its because her motivations are boring and one dimensional. Her character has no character growth from season 1 even though its getting close to 10 years since we last saw her. People wanted to hear about her more, see more of her, have more meaningful interaction, let her have some presents in this world instead of just 10 minutes total. Every time we see Lilly shes just "grr im bad" and thats it, thats the only interaction we get with this returning character. Its boring and poor writing, theres nothing that makes her interesting, which is why it brings up the question of "why even bother bringing back this legacy character if you just throw her away after doing practically nothing?" Its also just another case of "Main antagonist is barely in the fucking game" that Walking Dead has now done 3 fucking times now.
It feels like unless she turns out to be an amazing friendly jesus loving princess then some people think her character development is terri… moreble. Everything she was is gone, and now she is just a plain murderer loyal to a terrible group. It would happen to a lot of people in the TWD world.
Because there easily could have been a Lilly interrogating Clem scene like they were doing, but they didnt let you say things you'd want to say. When Lily is talking about Larry, how come I couldnt say "Im glad Kenny killed him" or something like that? She would get mad about that, talk about how shitty Kenny was, and then we could be like "You're wrong, Kenny saved me!" shit like that. But we cant, which is the problem. It all feels super limiting. Its a character we know, we have connections with, I want to fucking say connections back to her but the game doesnt allow it.
Like fuck I want to tell her about Kenny and shit in Season 2 and all that. Theres history and I wanted to see her reaction to finding out C… morelem was with Kenny for so long. I want to know what shes been doing for the last years instead of "found group xd"
Does that really matter though? I think meeting with Kenny in Season 2 kind of got people a little too hopeful in terms of returning characters. What purpose would telling Lilly about Kenny honestly serve? What purpose would knowing what Lilly did during those years serve? They're not there to discuss the past. They're there to fight for a future.
I know a proper sit down to talk to fill in each other's blanks would've been cool, but to me it just seems unrealistic. Maybe before her death in Ep 4 Clem and her will have a moment, but I still don't understand why people want to discuss the past with her so much.
tfw the virgin pudding Gabe wins a fight against the Chad Lilly.
Great point though, so glad we sit through hours of pain with Gabe but then Lilly as the bad guy is barely in the game. (What is it with Telltales walking dead and having the bad guy barely be in the game? Carver appears for a bit in one episode, next episode he dies, same with Joan, same with Lilly. Great work team.)
It just baffles me that Telltale is more than happy to shove terrible characters down our throats (Kate, Gabe, Michonne's daughters) and couldn't be bothered to give us 10 minutes of Lily.
Yeah, I can understand that. It would have been nice to see some continuity there with some mention of Kenny, just for continuity sake to make it feel connected. But I don't think that ruins the content of her character this season. At least not for me. I still thoroughly enjoyed what I saw from her and thought it was a good continuation from her character arc in Season 1.
Season 1 we saw Lilly as the leader of the group but she consistently lost control of the situation as well as consistently lost her cool. Season 4 comes around and she's almost flipped the switch entirely. This episode showed just how in control she was of the situation, at least in that moment and what lengths she was willing to go through to make sure she never lost control of the situation again, like forcing Minnie to kill Sophie. As soon as Lilly left them, that was Clem's opening.
You could even say she didn't have any control at all, which works just as good for showing that even after all that time, she was still a weak little girl like Carley said she was who only wished she had the control she claimed to now have, considering Clem hid the shiv under the bed, planted the bomb and just waited for the opportunity to strike and eventually take her down.
Like I said, I think they did a fine job with her. Perfect? I wouldn't go that far, but I think she's a step up from the antagonists we've had recently.
Because there easily could have been a Lilly interrogating Clem scene like they were doing, but they didnt let you say things you'd want to … moresay. When Lily is talking about Larry, how come I couldnt say "Im glad Kenny killed him" or something like that? She would get mad about that, talk about how shitty Kenny was, and then we could be like "You're wrong, Kenny saved me!" shit like that. But we cant, which is the problem. It all feels super limiting. Its a character we know, we have connections with, I want to fucking say connections back to her but the game doesnt allow it.
Yeah, I can understand that. It would have been nice to see some continuity there with some mention of Kenny, just for continuity sake to ma… moreke it feel connected. But I don't think that ruins the content of her character this season. At least not for me. I still thoroughly enjoyed what I saw from her and thought it was a good continuation from her character arc in Season 1.
Season 1 we saw Lilly as the leader of the group but she consistently lost control of the situation as well as consistently lost her cool. Season 4 comes around and she's almost flipped the switch entirely. This episode showed just how in control she was of the situation, at least in that moment and what lengths she was willing to go through to make sure she never lost control of the situation again, like forcing Minnie to kill Sophie. As soon as Lilly left them, that was Clem's opening.
You could even say she didn't have any control at all, which works just as good f… [view original content]
I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Lilly has the potential to kill a lot more of Clementien’s group if she lived, people who do have the chance to have a more fleshed out backstory. I’d rather have that dickhead killed and wasteful than for her to put another character to waste. A character that I actually enjoy, like James for example. Killing Lilly was definitely for the best.
She kills James and then the ship blows up, unsure where she goes.
I kinda doubt theyll pull an ANF and she just doesnt appear again but … moreI could see it happening considering how different of a plot episode 4 will be knowing shes going to be dead for most people. If she does appear she will probably just be wasted like she has already.
Not even that though, another problem is how she just wasn't an interesting villain. Even Abel is a better villain than Lily now. Lily is just evil, human, but evil. If you're gonna go that route and not do anything else interesting, well I think you should be dissapointed with yourself.
Well the simple explanation is, she just moved on. It's has been so many years, Lilly has moved on with her life. She doesn't care about the… more old group, her new group is her only family now. She doesn't care about Clem. I don't think I would have wanted to sit around with her talking about the old days. Lilly has her own motivations and clem does as well. Bringing up the past, would have just been tedious IMO.
Lilly, to me anyway, has always been a 1 dimensional character. She was angry and impulsive in the first season, and she is still her angry and impulsive self but more. It works for her. Some people just wanted to see some sort of redemption. But sometimes, some people, aren't redeemable and that's okay. I don't understand what more do people want. What a happy ending where she and clem works together? The point of the episode, I thought anyway, was to show how Delta has brainwashed there people. Minerva was brainwashed into killing her own sister, and calling her a hero. And Lilly is brainwashed to kidnap other people. She found where she belonged and doesn't want to give it up, not even for Clem. It was understandable. All characters aren't complex, and Lilly was never complex to begin with.
Not even that though, another problem is how she just wasn't an interesting villain. Even Abel is a better villain than Lily now. Lily is ju… morest evil, human, but evil. If you're gonna go that route and not do anything else interesting, well I think you should be dissapointed with yourself.
I am so glad I killed that b*tch in my playthrough. Out of curiosity I went on Youtube and searched for the alternative ending ( Aj spares Lilly), I have never been so satisfied with my in-game decision in my life
My thoughts exactly. Why did they even bring Lily back if they were just going to waste her? She's done almost nothing, and we've had very l… moreittle interaction with her. I really feared they were going to do this, give 0 development to her or do anything to make sense why she was back or anything to build on her character. Instead they just go "omg its Lily shes back guys!!!! And because shes a returning character we dont need to add anything to her!!!!"
Fucking Omar is no longer the most wasted character in this game now smh
Also the whole "main bad guy is killed or is lost forever and base is destroyed in the episode before the final" is back just like ANF. Really hoping episode 4 doesnt fuck up the ending to this series. Really loved the episode but considering Lily is already determinant and was barely even used at all is not a good sign for me. Hopefully episode 4 takes an interesting turn and ends this series the right way, but that ending really blew it.
To try and pretend she's and totally the most important, not to mention remotely engaging character to this story.
@Leegendary Im so pissed guys Lilly had so much potential to not become a 1 dimensional, uninteresting, antagonist where she realizes she wants to try and help them but they really just screwed her entire character up. Now, I don’t know what to think. I’m so confused.
Just finished it 5 minutes ago i still can't fucking believe what i just played.
What an absolute fucking let down and what a fucking was… morete.
Waiting 4 months for that fucking garbage,unbelievable.
I liked how Abel talked about that other community their fighting against at the beginning of the episode,and he was like "we're just protecting our home" they made it seem like this other community was worse than them and that there was something more complex.
I loved how Lilly was like hesitating to shoot clem at the end of episode 2 and you could tell her you used to be family or whatever.
And then you meet her again here and they just turned her into fucking Hitler,like literally somehow worse than Badger,and why is she doing this ? Her Motivations ? PIGS AND GRAINS.
I think they're more upset under the idea that it'll end up being a Joan situation in ANF where you kill her she's written out of the plot, … moreif you let her live, she's....well, written out of the plot. I think people are scared and./or upset that an interesting character like Lilly was just brought back to (potentially)be written out of the plot like Joan.
Her vocal performance was amazing, you could really feel the fear she was feeling when she yelled "Don't you fucking dare, AJ!", but it's overshadowed by the - frankly - piss poor writing of her character. It almost reads like a really bad fanfiction of someone who's demonizing Lilly.
I don't see why they couldn't have just used an original character.
I mean, c'mon, none of these choices matter at this point. It feels like the game is punishing you for not being on Kenny's side, by saying "yeah well Kenny was a golden god in season two while Lilly is a murdering psycho, bet you feel real stupid now huh?"
I also feel Telltale/the "Still Not Bitten" team have this huge love affair with Season One, and seem to think that references to stuff we've already seen can make up for a lack of good/fresh ideas.
The game is so fixated on the distant past and the glory days, it seems to forget that there are many other character defining moments that happened between then and now.
Nutshell, baby.
we had "sheltered character gets freaked out by guts" a la Sarah during In Harm's Way
That's not really a callback/fanservice, though. That's just a natural reaction to something you never had to do before.
I think you hit the nail on the head entirely. I got really carried away on this reply but this rant has been festering for a while, sorry :… morec
Considering how hyped up they made Lilly's return, I was pretty shocked when the option came up to shoot her. I'll be entirely honest when I pressed it just to see what would happen, only to go "WAIT HE ACTUALLY SHOT HER" when that happened. Kinda like how I tried to shoot her with the bow at the end of episode two, and she just rolls out the way, I was expecting some Mickey Mouse bullshit to happen if you told AJ to shoot. But, nah fam, she ded. What a waste. And, with the determinant curse - spooooooooky! - I think it's safe to say she has gone the way of the Kenny. Jane. Luke. Lee dodo. She is an EX Lilly, now.
It's also a real kick in the balls, considering how I was on her side to a worrying degree in season one - mostly because I struggled to get along with Kenny, in a major way - only to ha… [view original content]
I think you hit the nail on the head entirely. I got really carried away on this reply but this rant has been festering for a while, sorry :… morec
Considering how hyped up they made Lilly's return, I was pretty shocked when the option came up to shoot her. I'll be entirely honest when I pressed it just to see what would happen, only to go "WAIT HE ACTUALLY SHOT HER" when that happened. Kinda like how I tried to shoot her with the bow at the end of episode two, and she just rolls out the way, I was expecting some Mickey Mouse bullshit to happen if you told AJ to shoot. But, nah fam, she ded. What a waste. And, with the determinant curse - spooooooooky! - I think it's safe to say she has gone the way of the Kenny. Jane. Luke. Lee dodo. She is an EX Lilly, now.
It's also a real kick in the balls, considering how I was on her side to a worrying degree in season one - mostly because I struggled to get along with Kenny, in a major way - only to ha… [view original content]
You know, before I don't think I've said this story is bad so much as kind of a paper thin, sanitized rehash of Season 2's story.
But after this episode's overall climax? Idk.
@Ghetsis Not even that though, another problem is how she just wasn't an interesting villain. Even Abel is a better villain than Lily now. Lily is just evil, human, but evil. If you're gonna go that route and not do anything else interesting, well I think you should be dissapointed with yourself.
Comments
Her story about Larry made sense plotwise because she wanted to explain what would happend if the kids stepped out of line. I fail to see how Clem telling Lilly about season 2 would do the same. HOWEVER, I would have liked to see Clem trigger Lilly by mentioning how great Kenny was, like you said.
Or if Clem said something like:
"Larry, isn't that the guy that got fucking yeeted by Kenny with a salt lick?"
I have been scrutinised for saying that the final season’s storyline is bad; yet it seems to me that some of you may need to accept the truth.
Watched Swingpoynt playing Episode 4 and I'd say she had it coming. I wouldn't have let her live another day. Lilly deserved to die for what she did to Carley/Doug and for kidnapping and brainwashing kids for a war.
EDIT: But I agree, her screentime was just short and God knows what Skybound is going to do with her in Finale if she is spared.
It just baffles me that Telltale is more than happy to shove terrible characters down our throats (Kate, Gabe, Michonne's daughters) and couldn't be bothered to give us 10 minutes of Lily.
I've been thinking for a while now they are going to make Christa the leader of the people the Delta are fighting for an "lol xd plot twist" and the game probably ends right there and we dont get to talk to Christa lmao
I agree. To me it feels like Telltale (or Still Not Bitten Team now) just dont understand how to write legacy characters. Only time I feel like they got it right was Kenny in season 2. Granted its a bit annoying for people who didnt like Kenny, but atleast he had screen time and actually felt like a continuation of his character. After that it went downhill.
I dont understand the idea behind it. These are characters fans know and love and I want to see them explored. Kenny is arguably the most popular character after Lee and Clem, and he dies in ANF like no one gave a fuck about him. Now with Lilly, same thing her return had fans on edge wanting to see her character again, and instead shes barely in it and then dies. It feels like she was only in it to sell copies so they could market the game saying Lilly returns and shit. I find it hard to believe the writers and directors honestly thought this would be a good ending to Lilly not to mention where the episode ends, episode 4 feels like it will be aimless, which is not what I think anyone wants for the last Telltale Walking Dead episode ever. I want a good ending, not shit, which Telltale has been doing lately. Like Batman Season 2's ending is fucking shit, same basic ass music they always play, basic ass scene happening, then camera cuts to black and the music awkwardly cuts off. Its shit, and I really dont want this series to end in such a shit way.
Also what is up with Telltale killing the antagonist halfway through the fucking season? They've done this so many times now. Main bad guy dies, or theres suddenly a new bad guy who takes over. Like theres a reason why Walking Dead Season 1, Tales from the Borderlands, and Wolf Among Us are good, they never have a focus on "Hero vs Villain" the whole game, and then kill the bad guy before episode 5. They focus on something else so the villain is more of background noise. But for some reason other games just do the "YOU VS BAD GUY" and then bad guy just dies midway and now the season is aimless.
Lily's character problem isn't people wanting her to be "friendly" or anything like that. Its because her motivations are boring and one dimensional. Her character has no character growth from season 1 even though its getting close to 10 years since we last saw her. People wanted to hear about her more, see more of her, have more meaningful interaction, let her have some presents in this world instead of just 10 minutes total. Every time we see Lilly shes just "grr im bad" and thats it, thats the only interaction we get with this returning character. Its boring and poor writing, theres nothing that makes her interesting, which is why it brings up the question of "why even bother bringing back this legacy character if you just throw her away after doing practically nothing?" Its also just another case of "Main antagonist is barely in the fucking game" that Walking Dead has now done 3 fucking times now.
Because there easily could have been a Lilly interrogating Clem scene like they were doing, but they didnt let you say things you'd want to say. When Lily is talking about Larry, how come I couldnt say "Im glad Kenny killed him" or something like that? She would get mad about that, talk about how shitty Kenny was, and then we could be like "You're wrong, Kenny saved me!" shit like that. But we cant, which is the problem. It all feels super limiting. Its a character we know, we have connections with, I want to fucking say connections back to her but the game doesnt allow it.
tfw the virgin pudding Gabe wins a fight against the Chad Lilly.
Great point though, so glad we sit through hours of pain with Gabe but then Lilly as the bad guy is barely in the game. (What is it with Telltales walking dead and having the bad guy barely be in the game? Carver appears for a bit in one episode, next episode he dies, same with Joan, same with Lilly. Great work team.)
Yeah, I can understand that. It would have been nice to see some continuity there with some mention of Kenny, just for continuity sake to make it feel connected. But I don't think that ruins the content of her character this season. At least not for me. I still thoroughly enjoyed what I saw from her and thought it was a good continuation from her character arc in Season 1.
Season 1 we saw Lilly as the leader of the group but she consistently lost control of the situation as well as consistently lost her cool. Season 4 comes around and she's almost flipped the switch entirely. This episode showed just how in control she was of the situation, at least in that moment and what lengths she was willing to go through to make sure she never lost control of the situation again, like forcing Minnie to kill Sophie. As soon as Lilly left them, that was Clem's opening.
You could even say she didn't have any control at all, which works just as good for showing that even after all that time, she was still a weak little girl like Carley said she was who only wished she had the control she claimed to now have, considering Clem hid the shiv under the bed, planted the bomb and just waited for the opportunity to strike and eventually take her down.
Like I said, I think they did a fine job with her. Perfect? I wouldn't go that far, but I think she's a step up from the antagonists we've had recently.
This whole return is on par with Morales'
Hello Rick.
Goodbye Rick.
ᵃᶫˢᵒ ᵏᶰᵒʷᶰ ᵃˢ ᵗʰᶦˢ ᶜʰᵃʳᵃᶜᵗᵉʳ ʰᵃˢ ᶰᵒᵗʰᶦᶰᵍ ᶰᵉʷ ᵗᵒ ᵇʳᶦᶰᵍ ᵗᵒ ᵗʰᵉ ᵗᵃᵇᶫᵉ ᵃᶰᵈ ᶦˢ ᵒᶰᶫʸ ᵘˢᵉᵈ ˢᵒ ᵗʰᵉʸ ʰᵃᵛᵉ ᵃᶰ ᵉˣᶜᵘˢᵉ ᶠᵒʳ ᶰᵒᵗ ᵐᵃᵏᶦᶰᵍ ᵗʰᵉᵐ ᶦᶰᵗᵉʳᵉˢᵗᶦᶰᵍ ᵇᵉᶜᵃᵘˢᵉ ᵗʰᵉʸ ᵒᶰᶜᵉ ʷᵉʳᵉ ᵃᶰ ᶦᶰᵗᵉʳᵉˢᵗᶦᶰᵍ ᶜʰᵃʳᵃᶜᵗᵉʳ ᶦᶰ ˢᵉᵃˢᵒᶰ ¹
Ya'll are overreacting. You might get to talk to her in the last episode if you spared her.
I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Lilly has the potential to kill a lot more of Clementien’s group if she lived, people who do have the chance to have a more fleshed out backstory. I’d rather have that dickhead killed and wasteful than for her to put another character to waste. A character that I actually enjoy, like James for example. Killing Lilly was definitely for the best.
You totally called it. I'll remind you of this comment if it turns out to be right. Signs pointing to yes
Not even that though, another problem is how she just wasn't an interesting villain. Even Abel is a better villain than Lily now. Lily is just evil, human, but evil. If you're gonna go that route and not do anything else interesting, well I think you should be dissapointed with yourself.
Lilly, to me anyway, has always been a 1 dimensional character. She was angry and impulsive in the first season, and she is still her angry and impulsive self but more. It works for her. Some people just wanted to see some sort of redemption. But sometimes, some people, aren't redeemable and that's okay. I don't understand what more do people want. What a happy ending where she and clem works together? The point of the episode, I thought anyway, was to show how Delta has brainwashed there people. Minerva was brainwashed into killing her own sister, and calling her a hero. And Lilly is brainwashed to kidnap other people. She found where she belonged and doesn't want to give it up, not even for Clem. It was understandable. All characters aren't complex, and Lilly was never complex to begin with.
Not only would Kenny have killed her without a doubt if he were alive, even Lee would have killed her at this point.
I am so glad I killed that b*tch in my playthrough. Out of curiosity I went on Youtube and searched for the alternative ending ( Aj spares Lilly), I have never been so satisfied with my in-game decision in my life
I wondered that from the moment the 2nd episode came out.
I also wondered that a few times throughout her scenes.
This.
Oh, I'd definitely say so.
I would.
Alright, Iuzuka.
To try and pretend she's and totally the most important, not to mention remotely engaging character to this story.
I'm pretty much right there with you, brother.
and why is she doing this ? Her Motivations ? PIGS AND GRAINS.
Oh Lord, somebody make a meme outta dis!
:
"Interesting"
Great benchmark, there.
You shouldn't speak in absolutes.
Who the fuck?
Nutshell, baby.
That's not really a callback/fanservice, though. That's just a natural reaction to something you never had to do before.
This episode's third act.
I agree with this so much.
You know, before I don't think I've said this story is bad so much as kind of a paper thin, sanitized rehash of Season 2's story.
But after this episode's overall climax? Idk.
Yeah, pretty much.