there is a slight possibility that Guybrush will stay dead? LOL
Guybrush IS monkey island
He's dead, but not gone for good, obviously. I just hope there's a reason for him dying and coming back. They need to do something clever with this and not just make an excuse to keep dragging on the story. All I'm saying is that they need to do something clever here. Not just, "I'm Guybrush and I'm dead. Oh look, voodoo magic. I'm myself again. Yay!" There needs to be an actual reason for this that significant to the overall story. Otherwise, what's the point?
... Damn. I for whatever reason completely forgot about that.
Okay, so Escape From Monkey Island was the only one that's entirely pointless to the series now.
I don't think every version of the game went back to Elaine afterwards, The first time I played it was on an Amiga (11 floppies iirc), And I don't remember it happening in that, I didn't see it until I played it on a PC years later.
Of course it could be that I just forgot that bit.
Honestly, I'm surprised at you people. I was shocked and scared when Morgan died. Then Guybrush did too and I was quite relieved, because what with the whole "immortality" thing going on in the game already, the hints the Voodoo lady drops about things being more complicated than they seem, and, well, the whole "protagonist death" thing, it became pretty clear what's going to happen. Well, more or less.
Morgan obviously is alive, and so will Guybrush be.
And I think we can assume that Guybrush is not so stupid as to mistaken somebody holding their breath for somebody genuinely dead with an entry-wound from a sword in her chest. In fact, IIRC he pulls the sword out? Morgan clearly, then, was dead. She was probably alive by the episode's end. Guybrush will come back in some way, and given the likelihood she will return in her living form (of some kind) it's safe to assume Guybrush will be.
If Guybrush and Morgan can do it, why is death even a problem for any other character in the game? Why even have swords? Why even be pirates? Why make a game?
Dialogue, art, and music aside, they're not being very creative here.
I disagree. At the present moment there is freaky scientific-hoodoo created by de Singe which will allow some kind of return from death. This is clearly something only possible using the special fallout from LeChuck's sorta-almost-death at the start of the series. Most of the pox seems to have cleared up, and the hand could be destroyed at any point.
But I suppose, after this, all any average-joe in the MI game has to do to save his wife or pet dog is to kill the uber-awesome Demonic ghost-zombie-king LeChuck with some ambiguous changes to an arcane voodoo-knowledge and learn all of de Singe's freaky scientific breakthroughs AND put all of this to good use using the extracted Threepwood-juice from the original slayer of LeChuck (who, obviously, would have to be average-joe-B) and THEN (unless your evil) cure all the pox using the Vaycaylean weather device. Simple really; why bother about death anymore?
...
All the same, maybe we'd best keep up the life-insurance... just in case!
Guybrush is the Pirate God, and that the "Rise" foreshadows his return to life, probably in a big way.
I dunno, I've been thinking that all along, just thinking about the episode titles.
Noo!
we're all going to have to play as Elaine who teams up with Morgan La Flay to destroy LeChuck to get revenge for Guybrush in what is (apparently) the final episode. Then It turns out Morgan is in league with LeChuck all the time. Then Guybrush is resurrected and comes in all hero-on-a-white-charger. Then it turns out that LeChuck wasn't the real enemy and it was all just like The Man Who was Thursday or 1984
....I'm getting a major headache trying to understand what kind of mind can ACTUALLY think that there's even a 1% chance that these deaths are anything to be taken seriously. I was kind of moved by
Morgan's death
, but then they ruined it by going "Ooooh, she's missing....DUN DUN DUN!".
We've already heard that part of the next chapter takes place in the
Land of the Undead, so it's pretty obvious we're still playing as Guybrush.
As for this chapter ending...for me, it wasn't
Guybrush's death
itself that moved me, but
Elaine's reaction. SHE doesn't know Guybrush will still be playable, and the anger and revenge she felt at the loss of her beloved was quite powerful, leading to the most badass delivery of "dairy farmer"/"cow" in history.
"Funny, I didn't think you could die in Lucasarts adventure games"
It can't be. I shouted so loud when Lechuck stabbed him. Honestly, this chapter was AMAZING! I loved it right down to the ending. It needed to happen. But of course they can't kill dear ole Guybrush for good. I believe he's going to be the pirate god. He is the mightiest pirate of them all for pete's sake.
I expect the coming back alive wouldn't be some sort of deus ex machina or some lame thing. I even am beginning to think that bringing back Guybrush will come at a severe cost, something unforseen. Or, perhaps that moment wasn't his time.
It could also be that the rock pirate gods forsee the destruction of the world as we know it, and grant Guybrush one last time on Earth to undo the wrong, to make it right. Afterwards Guybrush expects to go back to the land of the dead, only to be given one more time on Earth.
....I'm getting a major headache trying to understand what kind of mind can ACTUALLY think that there's even a 1% chance that these deaths are anything to be taken seriously. I was kind of moved by
Morgan's death
, but then they ruined it by going "Ooooh, she's missing....DUN DUN DUN!".
Do you remember CMI when
Guybrush is in the quicksand pit? The balloon sails past the stick. We all curse loudly, then we cheer triumphantly when it comes back and hovers over the stick.
That's what I felt when
Morgan died then her body wasn't there and the rowboat was gone.
Voodoo Lady will say that Guybrush is in LeChuck's chest, so Elaine will have to go at world's end to take him back... But she'll need help... Barbos.... ehr.. Morgan comes out...
Guybrush is in the quicksand pit? The balloon sails past the stick. We all curse loudly, then we cheer triumphantly when it comes back and hovers over the stick.
That's what I felt when
Morgan died then her body wasn't there and the rowboat was gone.
It gave me hope.
The rowboat actually sank, if I remember correctly.
Also, no I don't remember cursing loudly. Because it's a LucasArts game, which takes all the edge off of any situation. At worst, it was "Damn, that must not be the solution...oh, hey. It is."
No, seriously, it's just impossible that Guybrush is dead for good, face it. And Morgan is alive and well, too, I think. The only one who's definitely dead is DeSinge. And he deserved it.
No, seriously, it's just impossible that Guybrush is dead for good, face it. And Morgan is alive and well, too, I think. The only one who's definitely dead is DeSinge. And he deserved it.
Considering that
Nintendo Power tells us that we're gonna see the land of the dead? Yeah, I bet we're gonna see DeSinge again too.
"Oh no, actual dramatic tension would have been terrible. I like my entertainment with the depth of a cardboard cut-out, thanks! If you're going to do a dramatic moment, please set it to Benny Hill music next time so everybody knows you aren't actually being serious about it!"
"Oh no, actual dramatic tension would have been terrible. I like my entertainment with the depth of a cardboard cut-out, thanks! If you're going to do a dramatic moment, please set it to Benny Hill music next time so everybody knows you aren't actually being serious about it!"
Telltale built it up as being a big story-heavy episode. They said it was filled with shocking revelations and that we'd be taking a darker turn.
Everyone in the forums is saying how amazing the narrative is, how unexpected everything is, and some people even think the events have actual merit at face value.
You yourself said in your last post that the dramatic tension was enough to matter if they hadn't given each moment a gaudy wink and a big, glowing neon sign that read: "NOT REALLY" in the shap of a giant arrow pointing at any event that might have had any sort of dramatic weight.
Telltale, the fans, and you are building it up to be something amazing. It's not. It's typical cookie-cutter, safe, mainstream storytelling. I'm fine with two-dimensional entertainment, but if someone is going to set up an image of being more than that? They better deliver. This episode hasn't really done that. Guybrush and Elaine's voice actors have done an amazing job with the material they're given, but even with their amazing performances in the dramatic scenes....it just falls flat due to the gaudy execution.
Just look at the past few posts made by you. All you've been doing is downplaying the series. Really, it isn't any better than those people who claim that anything after Monkey Island 2 is crap.
First of all, this is Monkey Island, and Monkey Island has never been about drama and tension and such. Sure, it's been about Nightmare Fuel mostly, but it was still a light-hearted adventure with comical moments, with some games having more than others in the series. Sure, to you the whole dramatic experience in Tales of Monkey Island seems like bathos to you, but most do see the shift Telltale is making in their own story telling. No longer is Monkey Island pure comedy, but they cannot completely abandon this comedy.
Monkey Island in all isn't dark. Even the older games aren't as dark as you think. It's still a game series that builds on genuine comedy, light comedy, to amuse us. I mean, what other game has a rubber chicken with a pulley?
That said, the chapter four description states "revelation". Note the singular in contrary to your plural. Nowhere on the official site can I find "darker" either. So suck it.
Oh, and Rather Dashing, ease up on how predictable you think this is until you've accurately predicted what's going to happen and how. Episode 5 could justify the envents of episode 4 completely, or validate your opinions, but we just aren't there yet.
Telltale built it up as being a big story-heavy episode. They said it was filled with shocking revelations and that we'd be taking a darker turn.
Everyone in the forums is saying how amazing the narrative is, how unexpected everything is, and some people even think the events have actual merit at face value.
You yourself said in your last post that the dramatic tension was enough to matter if they hadn't given each moment a gaudy wink and a big, glowing neon sign that read: "NOT REALLY" in the shap of a giant arrow pointing at any event that might have had any sort of dramatic weight.
Telltale, the fans, and you are building it up to be something amazing. It's not. It's typical cookie-cutter, safe, mainstream storytelling. I'm fine with two-dimensional entertainment, but if someone is going to set up an image of being more than that? They better deliver. This episode hasn't really done that. Guybrush and Elaine's voice actors have done an amazing job with the material they're given, but even with their amazing performances in the dramatic scenes....it just falls flat due to the gaudy execution.
At heart Monkey Island is a comedy. They've done a great job with the writing.
Does anyone here think that Elaine killed Morgan and not DeSinge?
A) DeSinge couldn't outfight Morgan if he wanted to Why would DeSinge deny it even as he's attempting to kill Elaine in front of Guybrush?
That would make Elaine a lot more awesome.
In all seriousness though, while pox-induced Elaine killing her wouldn't be hard to believe, I don't see how it's possible. While DeSinge was running from the lab Elaine was nowhere to be found and being poxed doesn't mean she has magical powers. (I'm sure someone close to the lab would have mentioned her jumping out the balcony when asking about her whereabouts.) Also, Elaine would have probably mentioned it right there and then when told about the death of Morgan in her poxed form to Guybrush, considering she had no problems exclaiming she was going to kill Morgan to him before, but she didn't say anything of the sort.
Does anyone here think that Elaine killed Morgan and not DeSinge?
That´s an interesting idea.
DeSinge is definately disqualified as the killer; he doesn´t have the skills, he is shocked and runs away, and he even says it was just because of all the blood that he fled. DeSinge is a decoy, but it is quite predictible he is
Speaking of predictable:
ToMI is kind of predictable as far as the result goes; it is very likely everything will return to status quo in the end.It was clear that LeChuck would not stay human, it was clear that the Pox would be cured, it was clear that Guybrush would somehow successfully free himself of the charges, and it is clear that neither Morgan nor Guybrush will stay dead.
But that is not the point. When watching a Batman movie you know Batman will survive and be victorious as well. The point is the way it is all done. Experiencing the adventure and the dialogue to reach that predictable goal. And that is the stuff that surprises and entertains.
I want Morgan to stay dead - with her body nicked for some nefarious deed that doesn't involve resurrection - or if she comes back, its not as the Morgan we knew. I really didn't appreciate the "Morgan's corpse is missing" bit, just having her die quite a major development (had a loose deja vu with the death of Lola in Grim Fandango, given the balcony setting), but that bit then managed to water it down significantly. Given the possibility of LeChuck's involvement (among a long list of suspects) in her body disappearing, and his affinity for undead henchmen, she may return as a bad guy, but even if that happens, its got to avoid the cliches in that area. A complete return to normal would kill off that particular character's appeal and depth for me.
Same goes for Guybrush too. He has to learn and be changed from a proper experience of death, although his resurrection is much more probable than Morgan's. Though honestly, I'd be up for the pernament death of Guybrush and the conclusive end of the franchise; I imagine these were the sorts of story decisions that TTG made with Gilbert during brainstorming.
Just look at the past few posts made by you. All you've been doing is downplaying the series. Really, it isn't any better than those people who claim that anything after Monkey Island 2 is crap.
While it's not, I am one of those who sees what came after Revenge to be a step down in quality(in some areas). It varies, and they all have their strengths and there isn't any such thing as a bad Monkey Island game(I equate Escape with Curse in terms of quality, which isn't as bad of a thing as it sounds). But this is all fairly off-point, so I'll stop there.
First of all, this is Monkey Island, and Monkey Island has never been about drama and tension and such. Sure, it's been about Nightmare Fuel mostly, but it was still a light-hearted adventure with comical moments, with some games having more than others in the series. Sure, to you the whole dramatic experience in Tales of Monkey Island seems like bathos to you, but most do see the shift Telltale is making in their own story telling. No longer is Monkey Island pure comedy, but they cannot completely abandon this comedy.
First of all, darkness is not mutually exclusive from humor. Secondly:
The series is built on humorous adventure, yes. But what they've done here is different from the precedent. In previous games, you had ridiculous situations that the game played fairly straight(or a straight-played adventure with ridiculous elements, however you want to interpret it).
What Telltale has done here, though, is introduce an attempt at a completely serious death scene. We can assume from the delivery and the script that these scenes are not by any means meant to be taken lightly. But it's like they don't know how to shake that, and make a character realistically die.
Also, the fan response is "WOW! SO DARK!". At the very least, I object to the fan-invented nonsense that there is anything remotely dark about Tales. Like a child's Halloween costume, it's a serviceable but ultimately poor substitution for something truly "dark."
See also: "Hot Topic" Dark, "Twilight" Dark, "Harry Potter" Dark
Monkey Island in all isn't dark. Even the older games aren't as dark as you think. It's still a game series that builds on genuine comedy, light comedy, to amuse us. I mean, what other game has a rubber chicken with a pulley?
I actually never said the games were dark. LeChuck's Revenge set up the POTENTIAL for something dark to develop, but then a third game wasn't made and by the time CMI came out the general idea of how they handled it was more or less a financial necessity. But I think it's at least heavily implied that the intention with this past episode was to go in a darker direction, or at least to go for "epic drama". And it falls flat.
That said, the chapter four description states "revelation". Note the singular in contrary to your plural. Nowhere on the official site can I find "darker" either. So suck it.
I'm not referring exclusively to the episode description, or even to things said by the developers, but also the context of the scenes in question. From the music, camera angles, the way the character models are set to "act" quite seriously. The game itself communicates "This is supposed to be a big moment", and then waters it down significantly.
Oh, and Rather Dashing, ease up on how predictable you think this is until you've accurately predicted what's going to happen and how. Episode 5 could justify the envents of episode 4 completely, or validate your opinions, but we just aren't there yet.
The fifth episode has a chance to redeem the fourth to an extent. But predictability isn't my concern, it's dramatic execution. And while the events in the fourth episode sport the trappings of a dramatic moment, they lack the substance to really be pulled off. In that regard, a lot of Episode 5's merits won't be shared with its predecessor.
Comments
He's dead, but not gone for good, obviously. I just hope there's a reason for him dying and coming back. They need to do something clever with this and not just make an excuse to keep dragging on the story. All I'm saying is that they need to do something clever here. Not just, "I'm Guybrush and I'm dead. Oh look, voodoo magic. I'm myself again. Yay!" There needs to be an actual reason for this that significant to the overall story. Otherwise, what's the point?
I don't think every version of the game went back to Elaine afterwards, The first time I played it was on an Amiga (11 floppies iirc), And I don't remember it happening in that, I didn't see it until I played it on a PC years later.
Of course it could be that I just forgot that bit.
But I suppose, after this, all any average-joe in the MI game has to do to save his wife or pet dog is to kill the uber-awesome Demonic ghost-zombie-king LeChuck with some ambiguous changes to an arcane voodoo-knowledge and learn all of de Singe's freaky scientific breakthroughs AND put all of this to good use using the extracted Threepwood-juice from the original slayer of LeChuck (who, obviously, would have to be average-joe-B) and THEN (unless your evil) cure all the pox using the Vaycaylean weather device. Simple really; why bother about death anymore?
...
All the same, maybe we'd best keep up the life-insurance... just in case!
I would be deeply disappointed if,
I dunno, I've been thinking that all along, just thinking about the episode titles.
Well. It was sad at least.
Noo!
As for this chapter ending...for me, it wasn't
It can't be. I shouted so loud when Lechuck stabbed him. Honestly, this chapter was AMAZING! I loved it right down to the ending. It needed to happen. But of course they can't kill dear ole Guybrush for good. I believe he's going to be the pirate god. He is the mightiest pirate of them all for pete's sake.
Remember:
Do you remember CMI when
That's what I felt when
Also, no I don't remember cursing loudly. Because it's a LucasArts game, which takes all the edge off of any situation. At worst, it was "Damn, that must not be the solution...oh, hey. It is."
No, seriously, it's just impossible that Guybrush is dead for good, face it. And Morgan is alive and well, too, I think. The only one who's definitely dead is DeSinge. And he deserved it.
Also, good thing they delivered the dramatic moments with a wink and a nod, frankly its was getting too maudlin for a moment there.
It's Monkey Island, not Hamlet. Give it a rest.
Everyone in the forums is saying how amazing the narrative is, how unexpected everything is, and some people even think the events have actual merit at face value.
You yourself said in your last post that the dramatic tension was enough to matter if they hadn't given each moment a gaudy wink and a big, glowing neon sign that read: "NOT REALLY" in the shap of a giant arrow pointing at any event that might have had any sort of dramatic weight.
Telltale, the fans, and you are building it up to be something amazing. It's not. It's typical cookie-cutter, safe, mainstream storytelling. I'm fine with two-dimensional entertainment, but if someone is going to set up an image of being more than that? They better deliver. This episode hasn't really done that. Guybrush and Elaine's voice actors have done an amazing job with the material they're given, but even with their amazing performances in the dramatic scenes....it just falls flat due to the gaudy execution.
It's almost Hamlet when you put the leg on the altar and Guybrush goes into a parody of the Yorick soliloquy.
Just look at the past few posts made by you. All you've been doing is downplaying the series. Really, it isn't any better than those people who claim that anything after Monkey Island 2 is crap.
First of all, this is Monkey Island, and Monkey Island has never been about drama and tension and such. Sure, it's been about Nightmare Fuel mostly, but it was still a light-hearted adventure with comical moments, with some games having more than others in the series. Sure, to you the whole dramatic experience in Tales of Monkey Island seems like bathos to you, but most do see the shift Telltale is making in their own story telling. No longer is Monkey Island pure comedy, but they cannot completely abandon this comedy.
Monkey Island in all isn't dark. Even the older games aren't as dark as you think. It's still a game series that builds on genuine comedy, light comedy, to amuse us. I mean, what other game has a rubber chicken with a pulley?
That said, the chapter four description states "revelation". Note the singular in contrary to your plural. Nowhere on the official site can I find "darker" either. So suck it.
poor little girl
A) DeSinge couldn't outfight Morgan if he wanted to
At heart Monkey Island is a comedy. They've done a great job with the writing.
That would make Elaine a lot more awesome.
In all seriousness though, while pox-induced Elaine killing her wouldn't be hard to believe, I don't see how it's possible. While DeSinge was running from the lab Elaine was nowhere to be found and being poxed doesn't mean she has magical powers. (I'm sure someone close to the lab would have mentioned her jumping out the balcony when asking about her whereabouts.) Also, Elaine would have probably mentioned it right there and then when told about the death of Morgan in her poxed form to Guybrush, considering she had no problems exclaiming she was going to kill Morgan to him before, but she didn't say anything of the sort.
That´s an interesting idea.
DeSinge is definately disqualified as the killer; he doesn´t have the skills, he is shocked and runs away, and he even says it was just because of all the blood that he fled. DeSinge is a decoy, but it is quite predictible he is
Speaking of predictable:
ToMI is kind of predictable as far as the result goes; it is very likely everything will return to status quo in the end.It was clear that LeChuck would not stay human, it was clear that the Pox would be cured, it was clear that Guybrush would somehow successfully free himself of the charges, and it is clear that neither Morgan nor Guybrush will stay dead.
But that is not the point. When watching a Batman movie you know Batman will survive and be victorious as well. The point is the way it is all done. Experiencing the adventure and the dialogue to reach that predictable goal. And that is the stuff that surprises and entertains.
Same goes for Guybrush too. He has to learn and be changed from a proper experience of death, although his resurrection is much more probable than Morgan's. Though honestly, I'd be up for the pernament death of Guybrush and the conclusive end of the franchise; I imagine these were the sorts of story decisions that TTG made with Gilbert during brainstorming.
First of all, darkness is not mutually exclusive from humor. Secondly:
The series is built on humorous adventure, yes. But what they've done here is different from the precedent. In previous games, you had ridiculous situations that the game played fairly straight(or a straight-played adventure with ridiculous elements, however you want to interpret it).
What Telltale has done here, though, is introduce an attempt at a completely serious death scene. We can assume from the delivery and the script that these scenes are not by any means meant to be taken lightly. But it's like they don't know how to shake that, and make a character realistically die.
Also, the fan response is "WOW! SO DARK!". At the very least, I object to the fan-invented nonsense that there is anything remotely dark about Tales. Like a child's Halloween costume, it's a serviceable but ultimately poor substitution for something truly "dark."
See also: "Hot Topic" Dark, "Twilight" Dark, "Harry Potter" Dark
I actually never said the games were dark. LeChuck's Revenge set up the POTENTIAL for something dark to develop, but then a third game wasn't made and by the time CMI came out the general idea of how they handled it was more or less a financial necessity. But I think it's at least heavily implied that the intention with this past episode was to go in a darker direction, or at least to go for "epic drama". And it falls flat. I'm not referring exclusively to the episode description, or even to things said by the developers, but also the context of the scenes in question. From the music, camera angles, the way the character models are set to "act" quite seriously. The game itself communicates "This is supposed to be a big moment", and then waters it down significantly.
The fifth episode has a chance to redeem the fourth to an extent. But predictability isn't my concern, it's dramatic execution. And while the events in the fourth episode sport the trappings of a dramatic moment, they lack the substance to really be pulled off. In that regard, a lot of Episode 5's merits won't be shared with its predecessor.