Ch.5 ending: the ring? (Spoilers!)

edited December 2009 in Tales of Monkey Island
There's one thing puzzling me that I can't figure out, even after reading in these forums:

WHY exactly is
the ring the answer to the final puzzle: an anchor, courage, guide, and... uh something-something..
??
It was the first thing in your inventory, so the first thing i tried, so i got it accidentally right and was a bit too surprised to pay attention.

Can someone please explain?
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Comments

  • edited December 2009
    Well, it has sentimental signifigance, and thus makes for a nice, symbolic ending. But if you want the explanation they gave, "A Guide, an Anchor, Courage, and a Sacrifice: Place these things in a ring in the crossroads."
    Granted, it wasn't exactly in, but it's close.

    [Also, just finished the game! Woopie!]
  • edited December 2009
    I don't remember what Guybrush said when putting it onto the center of the crossroads (he was reciting the spell from the beginning of the game I think), but weirdly enough I remembered the words of the Voodoo Lady from CMI at that moment when she described the meanings of the huge diamond ring then
    Something like:

    "It represents a pure, true love. A power which is stronger than anything else."
  • edited December 2009
    heGear wrote: »
    There's one thing puzzling me that I can't figure out, even after reading in these forums:

    WHY exactly is
    the ring the answer to the final puzzle: an anchor, courage, guide, and... uh something-something..
    ??
    It was the first thing in your inventory, so the first thing i tried, so i got it accidentally right and was a bit too surprised to pay attention.

    Can someone please explain?
    The wedding ring is a symbol of Love, and Love is the symbol of courage, anchor, guidance and sacrifice.
  • edited December 2009
    Marzhin wrote: »
    The wedding ring is a symbol of Love, and Love is the symbol of courage, anchor, guidance and sacrifice.
    alright thanks, that's a good explanation, but isn't it a bit... you know, complicated for these game series? I mean everything else is basically explaned literally, why not give a decent explanation for the game's closing end-solution :confused:

    A strange choice from the devs in my opinion, seems a bit rushed...
    (otherwise the series were _awesome_ don't get me wrong, just the ending... was a bit... meh)

    Mermaid wrote: »
    I don't remember what Guybrush said when putting it onto the center of the crossroads (he was reciting the spell from the beginning of the game I think), but weirdly enough I remembered the words of the Voodoo Lady from CMI at that moment when she described the meanings of the huge diamond ring then
    Something like:

    "It represents a pure, true love. A power which is stronger than anything else."

    Yeah, that's right (good memory!) but imho; the developers shouldn't have the explanation of thís game be dependant on your memory and understanding of the previous games.
  • edited December 2009
    It's a shame that in many other languages, this puzzle will not have a meaning. In english ring and ring as circle zone are the same word, but in other languages not, and then the "flashback" to the previous spell doesn't have sense. I'm italian and, for exemple, the circle zone is "ring", as in english, but the ring on the finger is "anello". I'm scared about the localization, now :(
  • edited December 2009
    loaldnt wrote: »
    It's a shame that in many other languages, this puzzle will not have a meaning. In english ring and ring as circle zone are the same word, but in other languages not, and then the "flashback" to the previous spell doesn't have sense. I'm italian and, for exemple, the circle zone is "ring", as in english, but the ring on the finger is "anello". I'm scared about the localization, now :(
    Unfortunately, many things get lost in translation. Wouldn't be the first time it happened in Monkey Island. E.g. the "monkey wrench" in MI2 - since I'm German, I never would've been able to solve that one without a walkthrough, though they were trying to give us hints in the German version, too.
  • edited December 2009
    BeeKay84 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, many things get lost in translation. Wouldn't be the first time it happened in Monkey Island. E.g. the "monkey wrench" in MI2 - since I'm German, I never would've been able to solve that one without a walkthrough, though they were trying to give us hints in the German version, too.

    Do you mean the monkey? That joke doesn't even sense neither in italian, and infact I don't understand yet the real sense behind that puzzle.
  • edited December 2009
    In my language "circle" is "koło" and ring for a finger is "pierścień", but you can say "ułożyć w pierścień", which means "put in a shape of ring"
  • edited December 2009
    The way I see it, he put each of those qualities into the ring via the following reasonings:

    He view it as a symbol of his love obviously, and was led on his quest for Elaine to cure her of the pox (guide).
    Whenever he was down it would remind him of why he was doing it (anchor) and prompt him to keep going in the face of adversity (courage).
    He sacrificed his one shred of life to save Elaine and so the ring also represented that (sacrifice). Also, I would say that he was sacrificing the ring by using it at the crossroads, but you then give it back to her so I guess not.
  • edited December 2009
    Sacrifise symbolizes the way two people sacrifices their lives and merge them into one everlasting way of living, I say.
  • edited December 2009
    loaldnt wrote: »
    Do you mean the monkey? That joke doesn't even sense neither in italian, and infact I don't understand yet the real sense behind that puzzle.

    Monkey wrench is a "Chiave inglese", so you use the monkey as a wrench... This puzzle was impossible without a guide :D
  • edited December 2009
    Marzhin wrote: »
    The wedding ring is a symbol of Love, and Love is the symbol of courage, anchor, guidance and sacrifice.
    So, in other words, the ring is the bargain bin collector's edition of the ingredients we previously used? :D
  • edited December 2009
    Leak wrote: »
    So, in other words, the ring is the bargain bin collector's edition of the ingredients we previously used? :D

    Or, considering Guybrush comes back alive fully, it was the REAL solution for the spell, showing that it only works for those truely in love, the other way is just a cheap work around which is why you're back as a ghost/corpse, etc.
  • edited December 2009
    I too felt they maybe could have explained the ring solution a little better. Perhaps Guyrbush could have pointed out why it worked as all the ingredients or something like that.
    When I first completed it I didn't remember exactly all the ingredients/clues to the first spell so I was a little confused as to why the ring worked.
  • edited December 2009
    Santar wrote: »
    Perhaps Guyrbush could have pointed out why it worked as all the ingredients or something like that.

    He did mention about those, in one sentence that went too fast.
  • edited December 2009
    Falanca wrote: »
    He did mention about those, in one sentence that went too fast.
    Yeah he mentioned anchor courage and all those clues, but I still didn't get why the ring worked as all those.
  • edited December 2009
    The keywords "guidance", "anchor", "courage" and "sacrifice", you know, hidden in the meaning of marriage. And the "ring", being a symbol of marriage, gathers all the meanings of those keywords around itself.
  • edited December 2009
    Falanca wrote: »
    The keywords "guidance", "anchor", "courage" and "sacrifice", you know, hidden in the meaning of marriage. And the "ring", being a symbol of marriage, gathers all the meanings of those keywords around itself.

    See now you explained it to me, unlike the game :D
    Then again I can also see this as something that doesn't need to be spoon fed to the player.
    But I for one didn't have that information about the symbols of marriage in my head so thats probably why I didn't get it. This sort of thing varies from person to person.
  • edited December 2009
    Well, the game didn't need to explain it, otherwise the moment would be lost. I dunno, I picked up the symbolism immediately and smiled.
  • edited December 2009
    thats why this forum exists :D
    well.... that and the disturbing art.
  • edited December 2009
    Okay, aside from it being lost in translation, which would probably not make that much sense seeing as you play the game in English and all previous chapters referred to the wedding ring as, well, a ring, as well as calling the circle in the middle a ring, the symbolic meaning behind the wedding ring isn't too hard to understand.

    People say marriage is a symbol of a confirmation of ones love towards each other, as if it was a ship that was made stationary by an anchor. In fact, the word anchor has also the meaning of something that is held stationary, be it a car, a boat, or even something abstract like friendship or just someone who was always there for you. For Guybrush, holding on to the ring was his anchor to keep on going, no matter what.

    Actually committing yourself to such a relationship requires courage, but aside from that it also gives you the courage to do things you never thought were possible. It has driven Guybrush to do stuff he normally wouldn't do.

    People often see their loved ones as a guidance to happiness. It's a thriving force that brings us where we need to be, in this case, it brought Guybrush to Elaine.

    And as people say, to maintain a relationship, you don't just take, you also have to give. It's about being able to make sacrifices. You can't keep on doing the things you want just because you want to be free, or else you might miss your moments of happiness with your one true love. But it's also about the willingness to make sacrifices. Here, Guybrush is willing to give up his existence in the physical world to allow everybody to live a normal life.
  • edited December 2009
    Well in french we got "anneau" that could be both a circle and a ring while being a little weird...
  • edited December 2009
    Oh my god...anyone here watched "The Ring"?? And the video tape in it that curses you and causes you to die a week later? :eek: It's still haunting me / us then!! :eek:

    Careful, this is psycho:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhZCDlEmh0
  • edited December 2009
    heGear wrote: »
    alright thanks, that's a good explanation, but isn't it a bit... you know, complicated for these game series? I mean everything else is basically explaned literally, why not give a decent explanation for the game's closing end-solution :confused

    Really? I thought it was classic Monkey Island, but reversed.

    Often, you make a recipe at one point in the game, and later on you have to do a hastily-crafted version of the same recipe using wordplay for replacement items. In this case, however, the replacement recipe came first, and the true solution was revealed at the end.
  • edited December 2009
    I got the symbolism, but not why it magically made everything go back to normal rather than doing what the spell actually does. They definitely could have fleshed that moment out better.
  • edited December 2009
    How about if in other 'localisations' they use the word "band" instead of ring such as:

    4. a strip of paper or other material serving as a label: a cigar band. (w.r.t. the initial spell and placing them inside the mark (or label) at the centre of the crossroads)

    and

    6. to unite; confederate (often fol. by together): They banded together to oust the chairman. (from band 1)
    5. a plain or simply styled ring, without mounted gems or the like: a thin gold band on his finger. (w.r.t. the final solution). (from band 2) (Yes there is a giant rock on the wedding ring - but substitutions allowed in voodoo spells no?)

    How would that work to our multi-lingual friends?
  • edited December 2009
    Frogacuda wrote: »
    I got the symbolism, but not why it magically made everything go back to normal rather than doing what the spell actually does. They definitely could have fleshed that moment out better.
    I don't see how this isn't extremely simple and obvious. The Voodoo Lady flat-out tells you that becoming a non-Zombie living Guybrush is possible, but that it requires something "far more powerful" than mere voodoo. I mean, it's really not complicated.
  • edited December 2009
    But how was Elaine expecting it? And how is he conveniently back on the Screaming Narwhal? That's the one thing that bugged me.
  • edited December 2009
    I don't see how this isn't extremely simple and obvious. The Voodoo Lady flat-out tells you that becoming a non-Zombie living Guybrush is possible, but that it requires something "far more powerful" than mere voodoo. I mean, it's really not complicated.

    It's too uncomplicated, that's kind of what I'm saying. It was too much of a "clap if you believe in fairies" moment.
  • edited December 2009
    Exactly. I mean, Elaine would have to actually predict the future to do this "ring-from-the-2nd-chapter-till-the-5th" number. Sadly, it remains unexplained.
  • I can hardly believe that this thread exists...

    What else could one possibly connect to things like love and marriage, taking into account what the Monkey-Island-Universe and the majority of any modern media is like?

    I don't see why you shouldn't get it immediately, even less after thinking about it.
  • edited December 2009
    dzamir wrote: »
    Monkey wrench is a "Chiave inglese", so you use the monkey as a wrench... This puzzle was impossible without a guide :D
    No it wasn't :)
  • edited December 2009
    Well, you needed sacrifice, an anchor, a guide and courage, an a ring

    It takes courage to become married, marriage is a tie, sacrifices must be made to ensure your loved one is happy, and you can go to them for guidance. The ring symbolised all of these things.
  • edited December 2009
    In other words, even a fool would get the symbolism, and even if you didn't, you can always blame it to the power of love.

    And MAGIC!
  • edited December 2009
    Remember the Voodoo lady told you that she didn't know what would work, what was more powerful than voodoo? Elaine just believed in the importance of love, and the symbolism of love as represented in that ring. She believes that there's some significance that married couples should to wear their rings all the time, and that there's something wrong when they're not wearing their ring, even if its because they lose it. That's not an uncommon belief.

    I don't know that Elaine knew that the ring would be part of a voodoo spell, she just had faith in the idea that a symbol of love was an important thing for Guybrush to hold with him all the time. And it proved to be an important thing.

    I think this ties into the fact that Elaine, according to the Voodoo lady 'doesn't trust voodoo'. As I argued in the other thread, the Voodoo lady believes in fate and that everything is part of a larger game... and I think what she means is Elaine doesn't, she believes in free will and the individual---and also believes that love is important to that. While the Voodoo lady might think that Elaine and Guybrush being in love are them just playing roles, according to the cards... Elaine thinks its something much more than that, and that the power of love cant be explained by voodoo.

    Either that , or she knew that was how LeChuck came back.. and figured at one point LeChuck would try to kill Guybrush.
  • edited December 2009
    I had an "Awwww, mushy love stuff moment" when I saw that I still had the ring in my inventory at the crossroads and it made perfect sense to me. And then I had a "Ah, I finally get this crappy item that has been bugging me forever out of my inventory" moment shortly thereafter
  • edited December 2009
    PecanBlue wrote: »
    But how was Elaine expecting it? And how is he conveniently back on the Screaming Narwhal? That's the one thing that bugged me.
    feverfew wrote: »
    Exactly. I mean, Elaine would have to actually predict the future to do this "ring-from-the-2nd-chapter-till-the-5th" number. Sadly, it remains unexplained.


    I found this:
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14102
    to be very accurate. To me it all made sense.
  • edited December 2009
    It was the only thing that could interact with the only thing interactable in the environment. It wasn't symbolic. It wasn't rocket science. It was adventure game logic!
  • edited December 2009
    Katsuro, thanks for that link, that really helped to clear some things for me.

    And thanks to others for this thread. It makes a lot more sense to think that Elaine knew that her ring would bring Guybrush back to the world of the living.

    After all, it had the power to bring her back to life, sort of. ;)
  • edited December 2009
    i guess it was like in the marriage vows .. ill guide u ill protect u ill anchor u ..ill sacrifice for u :S
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