Elaine vs Morgan
I am just confused .. the writers seem to have favored Morgan with a better role (better looks too) and Guybrush should still prefer Elaine
I mean why are they directing us to love Morgan against Guybrush's will.
and Please don't tell me Elaine had a master plan.She had 5 chapters to do any good ,and she didn't
Reminder : Guybrush is not married to Elaine anymore
(this is my first post , how come "Guybrush" is not added to Dictionary)
I mean why are they directing us to love Morgan against Guybrush's will.
and Please don't tell me Elaine had a master plan.She had 5 chapters to do any good ,and she didn't
Reminder : Guybrush is not married to Elaine anymore
(this is my first post , how come "Guybrush" is not added to Dictionary)
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I guess people really liked her because she was a fan of Guybrush, though by Chapter Four Elaine shows you how much she actually loves Guybrush. I'm much more of an Elaine/Guybrush shipper than a Guybrush/Morgan shipper. Elaine kicks just as much as ass as Morgan, but wins over for 1. being Guybrush's wife, and 2. how much she trusts him (which Morgan doesn't; remember how disappointed she was in Leviathan).
Guybrush was only mostly dead. As long as he still clings to a single shred of life, the marriage is still good, no matter what Le Chuck says.
Morgan was more developed than any other character in this series, so I can see why so many people felt drawn to her, myself included. I felt myself cling onto the only thing that I understood in the game, and that was Morgan.
TTG obviously has been encouraging this bond, as I don't think all that dialogue comparing Morgan to the dangerously aggressive, socially outcast Manatee would have been there. And also in 5 when Elaine turns on you, that seemed to be more encouragement to trust Morgan. My reaction was like WTF, and at that point I felt it was a big blow into the credibility and likable-ness of Elaine. Like a axe coming down on her head.
I'm fairly certain Morgan and Guybrush will end up as a couple, even though Elaine could have still been developed further in this series and recovered from this shipwreck of a marriage.
Kind of the point of the entire series. ELAINE IS THE LOVE OF GUYBRUSH'S LIFE!
And writers don't have bias, writers lol don't favor anyone. They were just messing with your head, hisham.
For alot of people their penises...^
Wait, wait, wait. Since when did Guybrush ever stopped loving Elaine and liked Morgan more than just a good friend? When did they even have marital problems? In the ending, they seemed to cement the fact that Guybrush and Elaine's marriage is the most important thing to them.
That's how I feel too, which everyone damn well knows by now. It was the ring that tied Guybrush to the material World. Seems to be the point of the entire franchise. Every game mostly about Elaine...
The whole 'till death do you part' bit is legal - it's not as if Elaine would have stopped loving Guybrush if he had died. The ring didn't represent their marriage, so much it did the love that Elaine and Guybrush shared. That's what brought Guybrush back to the land of the living. That, and he had a good travel agent.
i understand you and why you like elaine better. but if elaine had a master plan, she made it the exact moment as guybrush first steps on the planks of leckucks ship as a ghost. there is proof that she had not planned it all. (her being poxed and out of her mind most of the time is one of the best proves)
I'm not even saying this because I like Elaine more than Morgan. I actually like them both for different reasons. I'm just pointing out what is shown storywise.
I do agree in part though that Morgan is overall portrayed more sympathetically in Tales. The big thing is that there's never a doubt at any moment that it's Morgan talking, while with Elaine there are numerous factors that are making her responses questionable (the pox, influence from the belt buckle, demon possession). I really do think that the game would have benefited from showing us Elaine's more charming side rather than taking for granted that she loves and cares for Guybrush. There are moments, mostly in the end, where this shows through, but much of the time it's not readily obvious.
I'm getting a little annoyed by all this devil's-advocate-filled Elaine hate. It's like we're so charmed by the little pretty-face Guybrush fan, we justify everything SHE does and then make up completely not true stuff to make the wife seem bad. It's a shame people can't properly enjoy the Elaine development that was clearly there because of this.
Well I guess that is true, I guess I said that more because my love of Elaine died with this series. Guybrush seems to be blindly in love with Elaine, and may never break up with her no matter what. But I really feel like Elaine stabbed him in the back, I don't care that her mind was clouded or not. If you don't consider her spraying him with the rootbeer to be betrayal, her whole lame 'I had a master plan and didn't warn you of anything I suspected' seems like something that could be problematic for their marriage in the future.
The best I can take it with Elaine is that the sponge's powers made her suduced by LeChuck's powers. If I remember correctly once the sponge is taken away from the equation, the glassy look in Elaine's eyes goes away and she's ready to stab LeChuck in the back. Guybrush is shocked when Elaine squirts him with rootbeer and is ready to give up, but Morgan tells him she must be under LeChuck's spell. I don't think Elaine had a master plan, just an idea of what might happen. If Elaine was perfect, she wouldn't have put on a cursed wedding ring and not seen that Charles L. Charles was LeChuck. She is human....
I absolutely feel the same.
Elaine gets on my nerves to no end.
I agree. Especially since Morgan at least seemed to redeem herself, where as Elaine hmm. Yes she fought lechuck for guybrush, but who is to say she did it for guybrush? Even if guybrush could have fought him, Elaine would have still fought LeChuck for her own sake to escape. She has proven throughout this series that her interest is that of her own first before anyone elses. The only thing I see is that she may have given Guybrush her ring to protect him, and that seemed more of a lucky guess rather than doing everything in her power to help him.
'I've been playing along with your evil scheme the entire time, but did you really need to kill Guybrush for that?'
I know she supposedly had a "Master Plan" (tm), but the casualness of that remark broke my heart.
I think you are forgetting that she cooperated with Le Chuck to spare Guybrush's life. Elaine implies that Le Chuck promised her that he would not kill her husband if she cooperated. She did cooperate, but Le Chuck betrayed her. She was doing it to protect Guybrush. Elaine didn't want Guybrush to die.
She never really did betray Guybrush - she let Le Chuck transform her into a demon so she could get her hands on the sword, because she thought that the sword would have enough power to kill Le Chuck. What she did not know is that Le Chuck needs to be killed in both on the spiritual realm and the physical realm, which is where her plan went wrong.
Good gravy, are you kidding me? There's a difference between just not plain liking Elaine and plot morphing in your favor to make her look bad. Let me get this straight, the whole plan with Voodoo Lady which inevitably led to the events of Rise of the Pirate God was for her own benefit and not Guybrush's? "Oh sure, let me go through all this trouble just to simply boost my own ego, something that's never been in character for me in any of the games; it's only Guybrush that has any involvement with the Voodoo Lady and not me, but nevermind that."
In the underworld Guybrush was told a lot of time might have gone by after his death, and Elaine isn't going to be bawling about it forever, though she still seemed broken up about it. Her line was more anger directed toward LeChuck.
By that point in the story, Guybrush had been dead for a few months, and Elaine had been captured by Le Chuck for a while. Guybrush was dead for a long time. Elaine did show emotion when Le Chuck first stabbed Guybrush - she nearly broke down into tears as Guybrush died in her arms. Months later, she is still angry and upset but she has accepted his death. She still grieved him but she didn't break down every time his name was mentioned.
"Look, I let you capture me and I played along with your stupid 'Nice Guy' act because I thought that it would get Guybrush to realise that the Voodoo Lady --"
Uhm... Elaine? How 'bout TELLING Guybrush -for example on Spinner Cay when you were alone together- that you don't trust the Voodoo Lady instead of jeopardising his, your, and everyone else's safety by letting LeChuck get his way?
If my memory serves me correctly, Elaine did try to warn Guybrush in Chapter 2, but the warning was vague and did not make a lot of sense. Guybrush had no idea what she was talking about, and just seemed to ignore her concerns. Unfortuantely, ToMI is up to interpretation, primarily due to the fact that Telltale failed at storytelling. As far as I can tell, Elaine tried to warn Guybrush about the Voodoo lady but for reasons that escape me, she was unable to be explicit about it, and Guybrush was unable to figure it out.
I don't belive they failed - I take it as a promise for more MI to come than bad storytelling - they gave too many clues that wouldn't be given if it wasn't part of some greater plan.
And, mind you, Ron had some impact on writing RotPG.
There is a difference between leaving some questions unanswered and failing to explain crucial aspects of the story. Some parts of ToMI were not explained, and should not have been explained - the Voodoo lady's involvement, for example, should be left for the second season of ToMI. What Morgan's deal with the Voodoo lady was should also be kept secret until Season 2.
But by the end of Rise, it is clear that Elaine had some plan, but the game only implies what that plan was. The player is never told why she becomes a demon; granted, we can guess her motives but we shouldn't have to extrapolate a character's motives, it should be obvious. Nobody quite understands what the significance of the ring was, or why Elaine gave it to Guybrush. Again, we can take a guess, but the fact that we have to argue about its significance on a forum is a clear indication that the Telltale team failed to properly explain it in their story.
I am also looking forward to the second season of ToMI, but when a game revolves around that story, and when a significant portion of your audience has no idea what the details of that story is, there is either a problem with the fanbase or with the game itself.
The whole "demon bride" thing though, I thought was obvious. LeChuck is talking about the cutlass and Elaine has that thinking face and that "Hmm!" realization and then immediately asks him to make her his DEMON bride. I thought piecing the implications together (Morgan makes it obvious too) was easy enough, or at least by the end where you see her come back to normal.
My guess would be that Elaine's doing was part of Voodoo Lady's plan. Elaine seems to know many things that Guybrush learns during the adventure (LeChuck's true intention, way to escape Crossroads, thing that happenes to zaped ghosts). She had to learn it somehow and I guess it was Voodoo Lady - they surely had some conversation before or during Tales and they don't seem to like each other after that.
Ring significance is quite easy:
- Courage - most of Guybrush's adventures and dangers he must face are concentrated around helping \ saving Elaine.
- Guide - as above, love guides him (like: "Don't put your lips on anything" : )
- Anchor - as marriage "chains" them, keep them in one place together.
- Sacrifice - as they both sacrifice part of their independence to becoma a couple, and Elaine sacrificed the ring to Guybrush (what bothers me is "Sacrifice that cannot be undone").
And it's all put in ring.
So only thing left to be explained is: how Elaine knew Guybrush will need this spell.
But then again, why should it?
Tales did too good of a job of making people like Morgan, and not enough of making them like Elaine! I thought the last episode would rectify this, but... It didn't really.
I liked Elaine better when she was poxed!
Heeeeey, does this mean you're secretly attracted to LeChu—*KO'd by poxed hand*
Actually, I have something constructive to say here—really!—but I'm still putting my thoughts together.
Except that's just speculation. All Guybrush does is repeat the instructions and says, 'Clever.' then puts the ring up to his nose and it works. There is more to the spell than you are letting on. Guybrush has stood in the centre with the ring previously, and nothing happened. Yet raising the ring to his forehead suddenly changes the spell? The point is players shouldn't have to speculate about the significance of the ring - the characters should tell you what that significance is. Yeah the significance was easy for you but many players were lost. That is why there have been multiple threads in which the significance of the ring was discussed. A lot of what you assume to be true is the result of speculation and guesswork - and we are forced to do this because the game does not make it clear.
This could also be the difference of opinion. Others might interpret Chapter 5's vagueness to be proof of it's depth - the game is so deep that it requires interpretation and analysis. I am of the opinion that no video game storyline should require any form of interpretation, especially not in ToMI, where the first three chapters, and the first half of the fourth chapters were more reminiscent of Curse's cartoonish style, than of the serious dark style evident in Secret and Le Chuck's revenge. The fact that ToMI makes a sudden shift in atmosphere is to its detriment in my opinion, as if a player did not closely analyze every episode previously, they will not know what the hell is going in in the fourth and fifth episode. I admit I am in this category, but I am not the only person - there have been many people on this forum that has expressed the same opinion.
The thing is, the power of voodoo may be relying on the thoughts of the user and the importance of usage of the voodoo ingredients to that user.
Then why the need for specific ingredients? The Voodoo Lady has said previously that Voodoo is not something to be played with - it requires caution, and one mistake can completely change a spell.
In Episode 5, the Voodoo Lady mentions that in order to transcend Voodoo, you need something with more power. That power was LOVE. Guybrush was brought back to life by the power of love. The ring did not complete the Voodoo spell - it negated it entirely. If Voodoo required the emotions of the user, then that would negate the collection of items for a Voodoo spell, which is the basic fetch quest in every Monkey Island Game. If the only thing that Guybrush needs is emotion to complete a voodoo spell, then the Feast of the Senses was a waste of time.