There are also some reviews that says that the ending isn't right. I quote some:
from eurogamer: "Quite apart from the afterlife motif, it's a smaller, simpler conclusion to a yarn that deserved an epic finale."
from alternativemagazineonline: "The ending feels deceptively flat, before surprising you with a revelation".
from acegamez: "...certain dangling plot threads tend to suggest there’s at least another season in the works..."
from extraguy: "...though the ending was a little anticlimatic ...."
from gamezebo: "Far and away the most disappointing aspect of the series finale is the ending. "
from palgn: "However, the one plot line that may leave some fans confused or disappointed is the resolution..."
from vgtribune: "My only complaint is the entire ordeal with Elaine planning everything out, it seems a bit too farfetched and cliche."
from worthplaying: "It's just unfortunate that the climax of the voyage is a bit ho-hum, failing to truly live up to the lofty expectations that the franchise has placed upon itself."
from justadventures: "...the characterization of Elaine slipped and none of the questions raised were ever answered"
from talesofmi: "There are a lot of loose ends to tie up, but how this is done I unfortunately don’t know as the review build I got did not include the final cutscene..."
I wonder if others reviewers didn't mentioned the ending disappointment because the after-credits cutscene was missing.
By the way I think that some small tweaks in some cinematics would be appreciated.
I think its just best left to your opion if its gd or not I never bother listening to reviews after iv played or watched somthing
That's what I'm doing, as far as I'm concerned. I felt rather lonely before reading Bloody's opinions. When I was watching Elaine's cutscenes in ep5, the first thing I thought was: "There's something wrong, here". I swear I wasn't over-analyzing, I was just playing!
I read other opinions and the vast majority of them were enthusiastic, so I thought: "Okay, maybe I was expecting too much, maybe I am too picky, I must be thinking too much..."
So I decided to replay the whole ToMI once again and... no dice, the problem was still there.
P.S.: Of course, an explanation for Morgan's body disappearance would be nice too.
Maybe, but ultimately as unnecessary as an explanation of "why was Elaine able to escape from LeChuck and replace herself with three monkeys inside her wedding dress in the original game?"
Either LeChuck came back and hid the evidence, or someone buried her. If the former, then Morgan presumably had to do something similar to Guybrush in order to get the coins for the Ferryman. Perhaps the Grog Machine is there to give everyone an out for the coins. An explanation wouldn't hurt, but it's not exactly the biggest mystery in the games. Not knowing doesn't really hurt the story. I don't know how Guybrush and Winslow were able to sail back and forth to many different islands all the time without stopping to buy food supplies, but I don't care if that isn't shown on camera.
Geez, you're a little too bitter and over-dramatic for a comedic game. If I had that attitude I would be getting pissed at Guybrush for risking someone's life multiple times by turning them into gold and letting them get kidnapped two times due to his own stupidity. But this is fiction, so we find it endearing.
The difference is that Guybrush turned Elaine into gold by accident, because he decided to propose on a whim and had a ring in his pocket. Positive intentions, backfired due to spontaneity. Elaine, on the other hand, wanted to show Guybrush that the Voodoo Lady was up to no good, and instead of telling him, let events unfold without mentioning this ONCE, hoping that the facts would speak for themselves. Convoluted intentions, backfired due to... pride? Arrogance? Conceit? I dunno.
I didn't mean to appear bitter and over-dramatic. Damn interwebs not conveying tone. I should use more smileys
Essentially, I'm agreeing to what Eugene and Diduz are saying. If Elaine hadn't claimed to secretly already knowing muck more than she let on but not sharing this for no good reason, her character would be much more consistent and the plot would make much more sense.
The difference is that Guybrush turned Elaine into gold by accident, because he decided to propose on a whim and had a ring in his pocket. Positive intentions, backfired due to spontaneity. Elaine, on the other hand, wanted to show Guybrush that the Voodoo Lady was up to no good, and instead of telling him, let events unfold without mentioning this ONCE, hoping that the facts would speak for themselves. Convoluted intentions, backfired due to... pride? Arrogance? Conceit? I dunno.
Concern for his well-being. I find it strange that people would think she was doing everything for herself, when it looked pretty obvious that she was trying to cut the strings off of Guybrush as she blatantly states it more than once in chapter 5.
There's really no actual explanation for why Elaine didn't tell him the plan, but there's no reason to jump to conclusions and morph the plot to make Elaine seem like a jerk when chapter 5 tries so very hard to tell you that she isn't (at least in the case of Guybrush) and she loves her husband very much to trust him to great lengths. The things explained that would make most sense, is that due to insecurity of her own plan, she didn't tell Guybrush of it, but just to "trust her." (who knows, he might have done something silly in knowledge of it and screwed it up Secret of Monkey Island-style)
Maybe it's a result of being a Lost fanatic, but I've grown to the idea that a story doesn't always explain itself perfectly. We have to infer things...
We need more Lost fanatics here...
Elaine's "I always have a plan" is exactly Ben Linus's line...after his life has been turned topsy turvy by his failed attempts to foil the 815 survivors. And before things go even worse for him. He always had a plan, but it's not like they always worked or even made sense.
IMHO, that line is a cultural reference to Lost (MI is full of cultural references...I loved the Thief's last method of thievery) and is also a reminder to enjoy the game and the "What just happened?" factors.
After hearing Elaine's vow at the end of Episode 4, even her game-ending pronounciation nitpick cannot make me view her in a negative way.
The way I saw her sentence wasn't "I knew everything back then!" but more "I knew something was up and I gave you my wedding ring to protect you".
Not "I knew the wedding ring would allow you to become alive again" but more "as a symbol of our love, I assumed the wedding ring would protect you in some way.
You know, the whole stuff about magic and intentions and stuff, love protects you from evil, blah blah blah.
I still didn't like her last cutscene as it felt braggy and a big lie, unless she knew everything from the start in which case she acted like a b*tch the whole season
Maybe, but ultimately as unnecessary as an explanation of "why was Elaine able to escape from LeChuck and replace herself with three monkeys inside her wedding dress in the original game?"
I disagree. That was a gag, Morgan's death is drama. Elaine saving Guybrush through the wedding ring is drama. The difference is quite big IMHO. Applying an over-the-top comedic ellipsis to a serious plot milestone is quite risky.
No, the big difference is not gag and drama. The difference is taking it because it's just a game and being over-analytic. And you can't spell that last one without the center four letters.
its funny how some people cry about unsolved mysteries and want it all layed out, and i still wonder what is actually the secret of monkey island. IF stuff wldnt be left open for imagiation and speculation thats what i would call a boring game. i loved the last episode story telling wise, just wasnt challenging enough, if they release a walkthrough with the game they could at least make it a bid harder.
and to the ending of it, if someone ever saw a TV series like lost or prison break or similar ones you always think the end will have the one conclusion you are waiting for , all solved and statisfying but it is usually always left open so they might have another shot with another season.
I hate it when people say it's just a game. Would people say "You're being over-analytical, it's just a movie"? or "It's just a play?" or "It's just a novel?" It's a story and when a story isn't done well enough to sit right with the audience then it is a problem. It's not "just a game" especially where adventure games of all things are concerned. Adventure games ARE story. You can't be over-analytical any more than you can be for a story in any other form.
That being said, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything said so far.
I also dislike the "it's a game" excuse, but I think the point they're trying to make is that this is a game that's famous for using bizarre logic that generally doesn't matter if left unexplained or left for your own imagination. I mean we never get an explanation for why Guybrush is afraid of porcelain, either.
I'm not even sure what logic we're arguing about, anyway.
That may be, but TMI was so obviously meant to have a more serious tone than some of the others in the series and when you use the term "epic" in reference to the story then you need an equally epic finale to do it justice. I too think it was rather anticlimactic. There just better be a sequel.
I thought the final battle was pretty epic and part of the ending in and of itself, but I guess that's just me?
Either way, I didn't really like all the ~*~*SERIOUS~*~* moments; they just seem out of place for me. Grimdark has a habit of ruining a lot of game series, so I hope they don't take it too far next time.
I hate it when people say it's just a game. Would people say "You're being over-analytical, it's just a movie"? or "It's just a play?" or "It's just a novel?" It's a story and when a story isn't done well enough to sit right with the audience then it is a problem. It's not "just a game" especially where adventure games of all things are concerned. Adventure games ARE story. You can't be over-analytical any more than you can be for a story in any other form.
That being said, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything said so far.
Actually, yeah. People are also over-analytic with movies, plays, novels, music, poems, a YouTube video of someone taking a dump, the Internet, everything.
That being said, what's not to "get" about the ending? It's all about faith and trust. That's what ToMI is all about. Faith in believing everything will be alright. Trust in your enemy, expecing that other to do what's right. Misplace trust and faith. If you're being analytic, at least do it right.
Last episode was a disappointment overall. It tried to tie everything together in too short a time (the last few minutes).
I think S&M Season II did it a lot better. Everything is tied together so neatly in the last episode (for instance, I laughed when they used the sleigh to get out of the pit of Hell, the scene was the same as in Ep.1, it was pure genius). I don't know, I think TOMI was great, but TTG really did it better with S&M.
It tried to tie everything together in too short a time (the last few minutes).
Hmm, reminds me of the last ten minutes of Revenge of the Sith. You know, where Georgie was all like, "Oh shit, that's right! These are prequels to those movies I made twenty five years ago! Okay, let's see...AMIDALA: 'You're Luke, you're Leia, and I'm dead.' Yoda, you're all bummed about losing the war, so you're going into swampy exile, where your age will suddenly catch up to you and you'll never again put your outrageously dextrous lightsaber skills on display. Anakin, you've been mortally wounded, thus the creepy helmet that will make you sound like a distinguished black man for the rest of your life, and the switch-and-light covered chest panel that presumably regulates your midichlorians or something. Okay, so far, so good. Oh shit, the empire! Cue the 70's era spaceship and costume designs that are woefully incongruous with the glossy aesthetic I've created in my last three films, and I think we're done!
The finale was ok, but yeah, there were plotholes. Not as many plotholes as Bloody Eugene makes it out to be (you're lagging severly- most people can answer a few of your questions at least).
An ending is an unplayable epilogue. Not a playable boss battle. Heck no.
And I never said I didn't "get" anything about the ending. It just wasn't long or satisfying enough. That said, I enjoyed it and am not disappointed with the season overall.
T&E suggested that Elaine loved Guybrush. Guybrush wasn't at LeChuck's level of obsession with Elaine. And LeChuck was dangerous, amd Elaine hated him with a passion.
In RotPG, about all that remained was LeChuck is dangerous. Elaine's act of agreeing to become a demon bride seemed more calculated than desperate. Guybrush was at LeChuck's level of obsession, and suggested the only reason Elaine was with Guybrush rather than LeChuck was because Guybrush was easier to manipulate. Elaine's certainty at the end I really hated, rather than a subtle pleading and thankfulness which would have worked better.
While Morgan had her eye on the main chance she did seem until the ending to actually care for Guybrush. I can only think of one reason for that ending. It had to be tagged on to suggest The Voodoo Lady and Morgan were worse than Elaine. I'm not saying they're not but in the end both have been more or less honest with Guybrush. Elaine seems to track to the less honest most of the time.
In one of my earlier posts. I stated I didn't mind whether Guybrush ended up with Morgan, Elaine or neither as long as Guybrush won. To me he seemed to lose and lose badly. (And I leant to Elaine through the first three episodes - mostly because that's who Guybrush wanted. And the fourth I was so happy with)
Wait, so was Elaine's reaction really that subtle, or do some people just don't get it?
She doesn't just let herself willingly be a demon bride. If you really remember correctly, you would notice that the moment LeChuck mentions that regular mortals are unable to wield the cutlass the camera switches to Elaine, with a sort of surprised, shocked and a "holy crap, I have an idea" expression.
Seriously, it's no rocket science, and if even a socially inept person like me who normally can't figure out what others are feeling can figure that out, you should too. Read body language.
An ending is an unplayable epilogue. Not a playable boss battle. Heck no.
Then you and I are not seeing this game the same way, I'm afraid. Why would it matter if it's interactive or not? A final battle is still part of an ending.
She doesn't just let herself willingly be a demon bride. If you really remember correctly, you would notice that the moment LeChuck mentions that regular mortals are unable to wield the cutlass the camera switches to Elaine, with a sort of surprised, shocked and a "holy crap, I have an idea" expression.
Agreed. That's the only thing I had no problem with. It's clearly a brave "on-the-fly" decision, I really liked it. It's very welll explained in close-ups and Elaine's expressions. No problem in THAT scene. The problem is with her overall "I'll unmask the Voodoo Lady plan to Guybrush" plan, as I've already explained.
I disagree with GaryCXJk. He says it like noone was able to get the emotional message. Well, I sure got it, everyone got it. It's not rocket science, but I'd like to get my message supplied with more emotionally consistent and realistic-for-a-human example. The plot had so much potential acquiring this, but they rather wanted to go with "Elaine is S-M-R-T!!!1", so... meh.
But anyway, "Elaine is smart" is kind of an obvious statement and it wasn't really THAT focused on in the game, just a little last-minute reminder that she's not to be underestimated by her audience. The ring had a better meaning behind it than that.
I tried to add the "-for-a-human" part to avoid such a reply but... What can you do, huh?
What I tried to say there was, although the story is set in an imaginary world with its own rules, the humans and their emotions should be reminiscent to how we are, in real, you know. By this we can form a strong empathy with the characters.
I really, couldn't form anything with Elaine in that matter. She was just... cold. It's not like the all game is like that, though, Morgan had her own dilemmas and doubts. But Elaine, well, weird to see how a newcomer can leave a bigger bomb than a reccurring (actually, a MAIN) character of the franchise.
But anyway, "Elaine is smart" is kind of an obvious statement and it wasn't really THAT focused on in the game, just a little last-minute reminder that she's not to be underestimated by her audience. The ring had a better meaning behind it than that.
I... like her more when she's kicking butt with her sword. Not when she makes so indirective plans.
I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Chapter 5 insinuates she is anything but cold, and I still can't see where people are pulling the "gosh she is so CRUEL AND UNCARING" shtick from. I also saw plenty of human-like emotion too, so I don't really know where you're coming from here.
I'm not sure I understand why someone "making plans" makes them unlikeable. Her personality makes her seem like an orderly person, so I can see where it would make sense that she likes to plan ahead. It kind of seemed like homage to her independent behavior from Secret of Monkey Island too. Her improvisation with the cutlass is plenty understandable. Would it make any sense for Elaine to just sit back and watch Guybrush deal with all the trouble without her help? No.
There was plenty of sword fighting from her right there at the end too, so...
I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Chapter 5 insinuates she is anything but cold, and I still can't see where people are pulling the "gosh she is so CRUEL AND UNCARING" shtick from. I also saw plenty of human-like emotion too, so I don't really know where you're coming from here.
I'm not sure I understand why someone "making plans" makes them unlikeable. Her personality makes her seem like an orderly person, so I can see where it would make sense that she likes to plan ahead. It kind of seemed like homage to her independent behavior from Secret of Monkey Island too. Her improvisation with the cutlass is plenty understandable. Would it make any sense for Elaine to just sit back and watch Guybrush deal with all the trouble without her help? No.
There was plenty of sword fighting from her right there at the end too, so...
To put it out shortly, her plan involves her being the eternal, brain-washed super-powerful wife of his husband's nemesis in the sight of his husband's ghost. Yet she made such a decision after making a slight voice of "hmm"... It wasn't that apparent what would happen next. After this point, everything she could have thought of only can be speculations. There are lots of possibilities, considering she doesn't know how being a ghost and tearing down the crossroads to save your significant other is. That kind of a plan could only be something usable in the worst case scenario, and Elaine DID use it in the worst case, but, with just a "hmm". That's just cold.
Again. There are plans, and there are desperate plans that you can't just "hmm" when you use them. I'm not against that kind of a plan she came up with, the situation itself was really desperate up to that point. I wanted to see some emotion, you know, a whisper of "sorry Guybrush". Also the ending sequence. I wanted to see a "glad you're back *sniff*", not a "oh, you're there finally, oh well". He. Cheated. The goddamn. DEATH. "I was expecting you" just doesn't work.
In all the episodes this is the one where Elaine herself (not her poxed self) gets the most screentime and chances of changing the plot, and this is where I didn't like her lines and doings the most, so her awesome fight with Morgan can't quite make it up.
^
I think you're looking a little too far into things. The "hmm" is a gentle nod toward the audience so you know Elaine has something up her sleeve, not really anything aimed toward anyone but her own thoughts. The game kind of makes it clear her plan involved trusting in Guybrush to bring her back, so you see what kind of powerful teamwork they've developed. (Though for some reason Guybrush can't see his own wife is acting until Morgan points it out??)
There is actually a lot of emotion from her, and I don't know how you're not catching it. What happened to the whole "I love you" line? There WAS an "I'm sorry" before the whole demon bride thing. Did episode 4's ending mean nothing? And did you catch her desperate tone when Guybrush fails to do something about LeChuck in the spirit world around three times? There's a whole lot of them during the fight scene in general.
Why she wasn't tearful in the ending is because for some reason the game tries to use this bizarro logic that Elaine just somehow knew he would come back and then being all confident about it. (Winslow too, apparently) I don't really get it either, but I just blame the writing for not really explaining it properly, not Elaine who's just the actress for it.
The one thing I will agree with you is that she gets little screen time in comparison to Morgan. For lots of reasons, it was annoying, but I'll spare you.
I never cared too much for Elaine. She's always struck me as one of the less interesting characters in the entire franchise. In fact, I would say that one of the many things that Tales did well was make me like Elaine (albeit only for one episode. She was hysterical with the pox in "Trial and Execution.)
I didn't like the whole "It was all my plan!" aspect of the ending, because it seemed to suggest to me that she had actually planned on Guybrush dying (hence the giving him the ring) which is kind of messed up, it undermines all of Guybrush's hard work (she's off screen for most of the game then all of a sudden she's the one that made it possible for good to triumph in the end? I have no qualms with her kicking ghost pirate butt, but giving her credit for the whole season peeves me slightly.) Finally, it seemed like she wanted to cut the Voodoo Lady's string off of Guybrush, but really she's almost as manipulative...
...should have some doubt about it, not simply ending the game with himself asking "WHAT WAS THE PRONOUNCE OF ESPONJA"???
I found that ending quite funny because every time I heard "La Esponja Grande" it sounded a bit funny to me because I'm a native Spanish speaker. So I felt it as a joke directed to myself.
I didn't like the whole "It was all my plan!" aspect of the ending, because it seemed to suggest to me that she had actually planned on Guybrush dying
No. Otherwise, the ending of the 4th episode wouldn't make any sense at all. She never even said "everything that happened was part of a plan!" She just suggested a few things were planned, like getting captured in the beginning, and turning into a demon. The ring has been suggested to be gut instinct and not really part of some careful plotting.
Comments
from eurogamer: "Quite apart from the afterlife motif, it's a smaller, simpler conclusion to a yarn that deserved an epic finale."
from alternativemagazineonline: "The ending feels deceptively flat, before surprising you with a revelation".
from acegamez: "...certain dangling plot threads tend to suggest there’s at least another season in the works..."
from extraguy: "...though the ending was a little anticlimatic ...."
from gamezebo: "Far and away the most disappointing aspect of the series finale is the ending. "
from palgn: "However, the one plot line that may leave some fans confused or disappointed is the resolution..."
from vgtribune: "My only complaint is the entire ordeal with Elaine planning everything out, it seems a bit too farfetched and cliche."
from worthplaying: "It's just unfortunate that the climax of the voyage is a bit ho-hum, failing to truly live up to the lofty expectations that the franchise has placed upon itself."
from justadventures: "...the characterization of Elaine slipped and none of the questions raised were ever answered"
from talesofmi: "There are a lot of loose ends to tie up, but how this is done I unfortunately don’t know as the review build I got did not include the final cutscene..."
I wonder if others reviewers didn't mentioned the ending disappointment because the after-credits cutscene was missing.
By the way I think that some small tweaks in some cinematics would be appreciated.
No, I'm just assuming it's not only me and few others who noticied "something wrong" at the end of the episode!
That's what I'm doing, as far as I'm concerned. I felt rather lonely before reading Bloody's opinions. When I was watching Elaine's cutscenes in ep5, the first thing I thought was: "There's something wrong, here". I swear I wasn't over-analyzing, I was just playing!
I read other opinions and the vast majority of them were enthusiastic, so I thought: "Okay, maybe I was expecting too much, maybe I am too picky, I must be thinking too much..."
So I decided to replay the whole ToMI once again and... no dice, the problem was still there.
Maybe, but ultimately as unnecessary as an explanation of "why was Elaine able to escape from LeChuck and replace herself with three monkeys inside her wedding dress in the original game?"
Either LeChuck came back and hid the evidence, or someone buried her. If the former, then Morgan presumably had to do something similar to Guybrush in order to get the coins for the Ferryman. Perhaps the Grog Machine is there to give everyone an out for the coins. An explanation wouldn't hurt, but it's not exactly the biggest mystery in the games. Not knowing doesn't really hurt the story. I don't know how Guybrush and Winslow were able to sail back and forth to many different islands all the time without stopping to buy food supplies, but I don't care if that isn't shown on camera.
The difference is that Guybrush turned Elaine into gold by accident, because he decided to propose on a whim and had a ring in his pocket. Positive intentions, backfired due to spontaneity. Elaine, on the other hand, wanted to show Guybrush that the Voodoo Lady was up to no good, and instead of telling him, let events unfold without mentioning this ONCE, hoping that the facts would speak for themselves. Convoluted intentions, backfired due to... pride? Arrogance? Conceit? I dunno.
I didn't mean to appear bitter and over-dramatic. Damn interwebs not conveying tone. I should use more smileys
Essentially, I'm agreeing to what Eugene and Diduz are saying. If Elaine hadn't claimed to secretly already knowing muck more than she let on but not sharing this for no good reason, her character would be much more consistent and the plot would make much more sense.
Concern for his well-being. I find it strange that people would think she was doing everything for herself, when it looked pretty obvious that she was trying to cut the strings off of Guybrush as she blatantly states it more than once in chapter 5.
There's really no actual explanation for why Elaine didn't tell him the plan, but there's no reason to jump to conclusions and morph the plot to make Elaine seem like a jerk when chapter 5 tries so very hard to tell you that she isn't (at least in the case of Guybrush) and she loves her husband very much to trust him to great lengths. The things explained that would make most sense, is that due to insecurity of her own plan, she didn't tell Guybrush of it, but just to "trust her." (who knows, he might have done something silly in knowledge of it and screwed it up Secret of Monkey Island-style)
We need more Lost fanatics here...
Elaine's "I always have a plan" is exactly Ben Linus's line...after his life has been turned topsy turvy by his failed attempts to foil the 815 survivors. And before things go even worse for him. He always had a plan, but it's not like they always worked or even made sense.
IMHO, that line is a cultural reference to Lost (MI is full of cultural references...I loved the Thief's last method of thievery) and is also a reminder to enjoy the game and the "What just happened?" factors.
After hearing Elaine's vow at the end of Episode 4, even her game-ending pronounciation nitpick cannot make me view her in a negative way.
Ken
Not "I knew the wedding ring would allow you to become alive again" but more "as a symbol of our love, I assumed the wedding ring would protect you in some way.
You know, the whole stuff about magic and intentions and stuff, love protects you from evil, blah blah blah.
I still didn't like her last cutscene as it felt braggy and a big lie, unless she knew everything from the start in which case she acted like a b*tch the whole season
I disagree. That was a gag, Morgan's death is drama. Elaine saving Guybrush through the wedding ring is drama. The difference is quite big IMHO. Applying an over-the-top comedic ellipsis to a serious plot milestone is quite risky.
and to the ending of it, if someone ever saw a TV series like lost or prison break or similar ones you always think the end will have the one conclusion you are waiting for , all solved and statisfying but it is usually always left open so they might have another shot with another season.
I don't think I'm being "over-ANALytic" if I just try to understand what's the meaning of what I've watched.
That being said, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything said so far.
I'm not even sure what logic we're arguing about, anyway.
Either way, I didn't really like all the ~*~*SERIOUS~*~* moments; they just seem out of place for me. Grimdark has a habit of ruining a lot of game series, so I hope they don't take it too far next time.
Actually, yeah. People are also over-analytic with movies, plays, novels, music, poems, a YouTube video of someone taking a dump, the Internet, everything.
That being said, what's not to "get" about the ending? It's all about faith and trust. That's what ToMI is all about. Faith in believing everything will be alright. Trust in your enemy, expecing that other to do what's right. Misplace trust and faith. If you're being analytic, at least do it right.
You can probably tell what I think by the framing of the question, but I swear it's not rhetorical!
I think S&M Season II did it a lot better. Everything is tied together so neatly in the last episode (for instance, I laughed when they used the sleigh to get out of the pit of Hell, the scene was the same as in Ep.1, it was pure genius). I don't know, I think TOMI was great, but TTG really did it better with S&M.
Hmm, reminds me of the last ten minutes of Revenge of the Sith. You know, where Georgie was all like, "Oh shit, that's right! These are prequels to those movies I made twenty five years ago! Okay, let's see...AMIDALA: 'You're Luke, you're Leia, and I'm dead.' Yoda, you're all bummed about losing the war, so you're going into swampy exile, where your age will suddenly catch up to you and you'll never again put your outrageously dextrous lightsaber skills on display. Anakin, you've been mortally wounded, thus the creepy helmet that will make you sound like a distinguished black man for the rest of your life, and the switch-and-light covered chest panel that presumably regulates your midichlorians or something. Okay, so far, so good. Oh shit, the empire! Cue the 70's era spaceship and costume designs that are woefully incongruous with the glossy aesthetic I've created in my last three films, and I think we're done!
And I never said I didn't "get" anything about the ending. It just wasn't long or satisfying enough. That said, I enjoyed it and am not disappointed with the season overall.
T&E suggested that Elaine loved Guybrush. Guybrush wasn't at LeChuck's level of obsession with Elaine. And LeChuck was dangerous, amd Elaine hated him with a passion.
In RotPG, about all that remained was LeChuck is dangerous. Elaine's act of agreeing to become a demon bride seemed more calculated than desperate. Guybrush was at LeChuck's level of obsession, and suggested the only reason Elaine was with Guybrush rather than LeChuck was because Guybrush was easier to manipulate. Elaine's certainty at the end I really hated, rather than a subtle pleading and thankfulness which would have worked better.
While Morgan had her eye on the main chance she did seem until the ending to actually care for Guybrush. I can only think of one reason for that ending. It had to be tagged on to suggest The Voodoo Lady and Morgan were worse than Elaine. I'm not saying they're not but in the end both have been more or less honest with Guybrush. Elaine seems to track to the less honest most of the time.
In one of my earlier posts. I stated I didn't mind whether Guybrush ended up with Morgan, Elaine or neither as long as Guybrush won. To me he seemed to lose and lose badly. (And I leant to Elaine through the first three episodes - mostly because that's who Guybrush wanted. And the fourth I was so happy with)
She doesn't just let herself willingly be a demon bride. If you really remember correctly, you would notice that the moment LeChuck mentions that regular mortals are unable to wield the cutlass the camera switches to Elaine, with a sort of surprised, shocked and a "holy crap, I have an idea" expression.
Seriously, it's no rocket science, and if even a socially inept person like me who normally can't figure out what others are feeling can figure that out, you should too. Read body language.
*sigh*
Then you and I are not seeing this game the same way, I'm afraid. Why would it matter if it's interactive or not? A final battle is still part of an ending.
Agreed. That's the only thing I had no problem with. It's clearly a brave "on-the-fly" decision, I really liked it. It's very welll explained in close-ups and Elaine's expressions. No problem in THAT scene. The problem is with her overall "I'll unmask the Voodoo Lady plan to Guybrush" plan, as I've already explained.
But anyway, "Elaine is smart" is kind of an obvious statement and it wasn't really THAT focused on in the game, just a little last-minute reminder that she's not to be underestimated by her audience. The ring had a better meaning behind it than that.
I tried to add the "-for-a-human" part to avoid such a reply but... What can you do, huh?
What I tried to say there was, although the story is set in an imaginary world with its own rules, the humans and their emotions should be reminiscent to how we are, in real, you know. By this we can form a strong empathy with the characters.
I really, couldn't form anything with Elaine in that matter. She was just... cold. It's not like the all game is like that, though, Morgan had her own dilemmas and doubts. But Elaine, well, weird to see how a newcomer can leave a bigger bomb than a reccurring (actually, a MAIN) character of the franchise.
I... like her more when she's kicking butt with her sword. Not when she makes so indirective plans.
I'm not sure I understand why someone "making plans" makes them unlikeable. Her personality makes her seem like an orderly person, so I can see where it would make sense that she likes to plan ahead. It kind of seemed like homage to her independent behavior from Secret of Monkey Island too. Her improvisation with the cutlass is plenty understandable. Would it make any sense for Elaine to just sit back and watch Guybrush deal with all the trouble without her help? No.
There was plenty of sword fighting from her right there at the end too, so...
To put it out shortly, her plan involves her being the eternal, brain-washed super-powerful wife of his husband's nemesis in the sight of his husband's ghost. Yet she made such a decision after making a slight voice of "hmm"... It wasn't that apparent what would happen next. After this point, everything she could have thought of only can be speculations. There are lots of possibilities, considering she doesn't know how being a ghost and tearing down the crossroads to save your significant other is. That kind of a plan could only be something usable in the worst case scenario, and Elaine DID use it in the worst case, but, with just a "hmm". That's just cold.
Again. There are plans, and there are desperate plans that you can't just "hmm" when you use them. I'm not against that kind of a plan she came up with, the situation itself was really desperate up to that point. I wanted to see some emotion, you know, a whisper of "sorry Guybrush". Also the ending sequence. I wanted to see a "glad you're back *sniff*", not a "oh, you're there finally, oh well". He. Cheated. The goddamn. DEATH. "I was expecting you" just doesn't work.
In all the episodes this is the one where Elaine herself (not her poxed self) gets the most screentime and chances of changing the plot, and this is where I didn't like her lines and doings the most, so her awesome fight with Morgan can't quite make it up.
Yeah, some sorta I guess.
I think you're looking a little too far into things. The "hmm" is a gentle nod toward the audience so you know Elaine has something up her sleeve, not really anything aimed toward anyone but her own thoughts. The game kind of makes it clear her plan involved trusting in Guybrush to bring her back, so you see what kind of powerful teamwork they've developed. (Though for some reason Guybrush can't see his own wife is acting until Morgan points it out??)
There is actually a lot of emotion from her, and I don't know how you're not catching it. What happened to the whole "I love you" line? There WAS an "I'm sorry" before the whole demon bride thing. Did episode 4's ending mean nothing? And did you catch her desperate tone when Guybrush fails to do something about LeChuck in the spirit world around three times? There's a whole lot of them during the fight scene in general.
Why she wasn't tearful in the ending is because for some reason the game tries to use this bizarro logic that Elaine just somehow knew he would come back and then being all confident about it. (Winslow too, apparently) I don't really get it either, but I just blame the writing for not really explaining it properly, not Elaine who's just the actress for it.
The one thing I will agree with you is that she gets little screen time in comparison to Morgan. For lots of reasons, it was annoying, but I'll spare you.
I didn't like the whole "It was all my plan!" aspect of the ending, because it seemed to suggest to me that she had actually planned on Guybrush dying (hence the giving him the ring) which is kind of messed up, it undermines all of Guybrush's hard work (she's off screen for most of the game then all of a sudden she's the one that made it possible for good to triumph in the end? I have no qualms with her kicking ghost pirate butt, but giving her credit for the whole season peeves me slightly.) Finally, it seemed like she wanted to cut the Voodoo Lady's string off of Guybrush, but really she's almost as manipulative...
I found that ending quite funny because every time I heard "La Esponja Grande" it sounded a bit funny to me because I'm a native Spanish speaker. So I felt it as a joke directed to myself.
No. Otherwise, the ending of the 4th episode wouldn't make any sense at all. She never even said "everything that happened was part of a plan!" She just suggested a few things were planned, like getting captured in the beginning, and turning into a demon. The ring has been suggested to be gut instinct and not really part of some careful plotting.