I don't see how having his perspective could be a bad thing. Ron Gilbert would make an excellent addition to the Telltale team, I feel. He's not an Adventure Game God or anything, but he's proven that he can make fun games with great puzzles, so I don't see why he shouldn't!
Just don't let him make Monkey 3. He can work on Monkey Island, but he can't invalidate CMI, EMI or TMI.
Why can't he make Monkey 3? He's said in interviews, specifically this one around the 4:00 mark that he enjoys CMI. I've seen other threads with links to interviews where he said that he would have to alter the story some but that it would still fit in with CMI. If that's the case then I see no reason why he couldn't make the game.
I don't see any likelihood of Ron Gilbert's original idea taking place after ToMI. I don't have a problem with Ron making a game that takes place between LCR and CMI as long as it doesn't impose on any other games. And based on Ron's comments, it wouldn't very much and he's able to reshape his story so that it doesn't.
hmm... in that case, I [/care] about it unless it would fix the crap that EMI did to Herman or the Monkey Head.
However, giving him license to do any retconning may open a can of worms. There's no guarantee that I/we would approve of any retconning done, even if it was done by Ron. Not this late in the series' lifespan.
hmm... in that case, I [/care] about it unless it would fix the crap that EMI did to Herman or the Monkey Head.
However, giving him license to do any retconning may open a can of worms. There's no guarantee that I/we would approve of any retconning done, even if it was done by Ron. Not this late in the series' lifespan.
Better to leave well enough alone.
The way I'd prefer it to be done goes completely against all business sense, so it will never happen. However...
I'd want it done as a one-shot. In Special Edition style, perhaps with an "original edition" built behind it if they really wanted to make it badass. Sell it as a "WHAT IF Monkey Island 3", after Monkey Island 2: Special Edition. Have the thing pretend the others don't exist, for the duration of one(1) game, and craft an ending to a three-game series. Even if people end up hating it, who cares? It's one game.
Then let Telltale do the "regular" series for a bit. They seem to have some good ideas going, story-wise.
I'm just curious of what Ron had in mind with his MI3. That's all, really. I'm not afraid that it won't live up the first two, or that I won't like the ending or explanation of things. After all, he said it himself - when we actually DO find out, you'll think it's silly. It can't live up the expectations, doesn't matter what it is. I just want to know the story he had planned. It doesn't mean I want the other games to not exist (well, maybe except parts from EMI). It doesn't even mean I want a new storyline. I just want to know, and that's all there is to it. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.
I'm just curious of what Ron had in mind with his MI3. That's all, really. I'm not afraid that it won't live up the first two, or that I won't like the ending or explanation of things. After all, he said it himself - when we actually DO find out, you'll think it's silly. It can't live up the expectations, doesn't matter what it is. I just want to know the story he had planned. It doesn't mean I want the other games to not exist (well, maybe except parts from EMI). It doesn't even mean I want a new storyline. I just want to know, and that's all there is to it. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.
Landing a new gig before his name is tarnished, securing him work when HotHead burns down in flames?
I suppose this is really dark thinking, but that is mostly what happens in situations like these.
Get a job before people learn his "Daikatana".
Of course if we hear he's hired for TTG to work on something, that would leviate some of my fear for the state of DeathSpank. Until then, the only logical thing for me to be is, based on the evidence available at the time, to fear that DeathSpank isn't what it was intended to be, it will be a letdown.
So wait. You think Ron would go work for TTG before DS is released because he thinks it's going to fail AND you think Ron working at TTG will be a sign it's not going to fail? :rolleyes:
Wow. So looking at Ron's resume you are genuinely "puzzled" as to why people would like to see him come work at Telltale? Or at least why people might talk about him here?
Okay... I guess I'm sorry I mistook you for a troll.
If I remember well, Ron has always been saying he prefers original titles to games made from existing licenses.
Considering that Telltale has never released original titles (except Telltale's Texas Hold'em), I think he's not as near to Telltale's vision as you might think.
I don't think anyone here is seriously hating on Ron Gilbert. But I do think that often people are given disproportionate credit, whether it be Ron Gilbert for the design/story or Michael Land for the MI soundtrack (who is of course excellent, but many of my favourite MI2 pieces, for example, were likely done by the excellent Peter McConnell, among others that nobody seems to mention)
I personally suspect that a lot of what we love about MI is at least as much Tim Schafer's doing as Ron Gilbert, so in the unlikely but possible event that Ron goes to TTG, that's very cool... but there's still a huge chunk of the 'holy trinity' missing.
I think people are just calling for some perspective about what a Ron Gilbert-enhanced Telltale would actually mean.
I'd like to see Ron's hand at some non-MI titles that TTG would work on. And hey, since he likes new IPs he could actually bring fresh ideas to TTG since they can't seem to come up with anything on their own...or won't for whatever reason...
So wait. You think Ron would go work for TTG before DS is released because he thinks it's going to fail AND you think Ron working at TTG will be a sign it's not going to fail? :rolleyes:
Possible theory for why he left: To be out before the release of DeathSpank, which is going to dissapoint.
If it's made clear that there was another reason, like an option to join TTG, I would be less worried about DeathSpank being a total failure. But since such hasn't been confirmed yet (or any other "alternative reason" for leaving) I gotta stick with my first one, which is from what I can tell the most common to leave before gold.
[PICTURE OF TOTAL ANNIHILATION]
Ah, I didn't know he was actually involved in that one. That does make 1 game.
Possible theory for why he left: To be out before the release of DeathSpank, which is going to dissapoint.
From what you have wrote on this subject that seems to be your only theory and you seem to want it to be true so you can say 'I told you so'.
Personally, I think he was contracted to Hothead for the duration of creating Deathspank. Now that that has been done, he's left his (presumably) full time position. The way I figure it, he wants to be a freelance creative guy but to make a game out of your idea you do need to be involved everyday of the creation process. So he joins Hothead. And after the product has been completed (from a creative point of view) he left.
I'm guessing either you've never played the other games from Humongous Entertainment, or you simply don't believe games designed for young children are good enough to meet your standards of quality.
I'm guessing either you've never played the other games from Humongous Entertainment, or you simply don't believe games designed for young children are good enough to meet your standards of quality.
Have you played them? I'd never even heard of them until someone posted it on here. I'm not saying I believe that they suck. I'm saying I'll bet 10 bucks you can't say that they don't suck or aren't mediocre since you haven't played them either.
[EDIT:] Has anyone on here actually played any of Ron's other games? Are they any good or just mediocre or what? [/EDIT]
From what you have wrote on this subject that seems to be your only theory and you seem to want it to be true so you can say 'I told you so'.
Personally, I think he was contracted to Hothead for the duration of creating Deathspank. Now that that has been done, he's left his (presumably) full time position. The way I figure it, he wants to be a freelance creative guy but to make a game out of your idea you do need to be involved everyday of the creation process. So he joins Hothead. And after the product has been completed (from a creative point of view) he left.
Why would someone want to be without a full time job on purpose? I think the fact that he left before the game went gold says more about that either he wanted to "get the heck out of Dodge" so bad that he couldn't wait, or that Hothead asked him to leave after the project was finished (suggesting that they didn't want him on full time.) You're probably not going to ever get him to admit the latter though, so it's hard to tell.
And it marks the first time I've ever been called a troll on any forum.
I think I'll cherish this day. Or night rather.
As to my earlier point which you quoted, that is simply a theory I have which basically revolves around the possibility that Ron had a contract with Hothead which has now reach fulfilment. If that's the case then it's not really a matter of personal choice, though it could well be.
The simple fact is that we don't know the reason(s) for Ron's departure from Hothead and I doubt that we will ever fully know.
One thing I do know is that regardless of this news I'm still looking forward to the release of Deathspank.
[EDIT:] Has anyone on here actually played any of Ron's other games? Are they any good or just mediocre or what? [/EDIT]
I played A Putt-Putt game back when I was a lot younger and I remember loving it. I'm not sure if he made all of them but if he did then props because I loved it.
Have you played them? I'd never even heard of them until someone posted it on here. I'm not saying I believe that they suck. I'm saying I'll bet 10 bucks you can't say that they don't suck or aren't mediocre since you haven't played them either.
You can deposit my $10 to my Swiss bank account. (That means yes I have played them.)
It would help me to be less uncertain if I knew exactly how much and what kind of input Ron had when ToMI was being made, but the TTG Staff are kind of vague about that whole subject.
Wow. So looking at Ron's resume you are genuinely "puzzled" as to why people would like to see him come work at Telltale? Or at least why people might talk about him here?
No, that's not what I said. Reread my posts. I think I was very clear and reasonable. Followed up by a bunch of non-trolls agreeing with me... So yeah. I think you're consciously misrepresenting what I said and applying "troll" tag simply because you disagree.
One of my points was that people seem to oversimplify the game development, software development, art generation process. For one thing, even if he's a huge talent he doesn't necessarily mesh with the Telltale crew. Same with oversimplifying people's career choices - personality conflicts, etc - especially in a creative field. It just seems really naiive.
[EDIT:] Has anyone on here actually played any of Ron's other games? Are they any good or just mediocre or what? [/EDIT]
Believe it or not, I played a big chunk of "Putt Putt Goes to the Moon" back in '93, which I've since read is one of the better games from that series. (longish story why I played it, it doesn't really matter). And I just skimmed through the playthrough video on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwqdbbGaIoY) to refresh my memory.
It was...a kid's game. As far as children's computer games go, particularly ones from the era, I suppose it was okay. Creative, brightly colored, entertaining. Made use of SCUMM. But nothing that I can think of that really showed truly impressive game design. I mean, these are Adventure games with typical dialog like:
"That looks like a space rocket!"
"It is a space rocket. And it just might be our ticket home."
"I wonder if it's for sale."
"It sure is."
"How much is it?"
"Ten moon crystals."
"But the rocket's missing a few parts. Take our blue flag. It will show you what you need."
"Thanks."
I'm not denigrating the game at all. It's a fine game. It's just that as kids' games, it's a bit tougher to draw a lot of conclusions from them about the skill of the designer(s), and we don't really know what involvement Ron had, anyway.
I have to say that it doesn't *seem* like an impressive resume after the LA days, though. Better than mine in the gaming world, I guess
Incidentally, the playthroughs for a large number of Humongous games are on Youtube, if anyone wants to have a watch through them.
"That looks like a space rocket!"
"It is a space rocket. And it just might be our ticket home."
"I wonder if it's for sale."
"It sure is."
"How much is it?"
"Ten moon crystals."
"But the rocket's missing a few parts. Take our blue flag. It will show you what you need."
"Thanks."
I'm not denigrating the game at all. It's a fine game. It's just that as kids' games, it's a bit tougher to draw a lot of conclusions from them about the skill of the designer(s).
Not at all. Putt-Putt games were designed very well, with clear (and dynamic) puzzles and an intuitive interface, perfectly suited for the target audience.
The dialog is not necessarily written by the designer. For example, Tim Schafer and David Grossman wrote most of Monkey Island 1&2 as far as I know, with Ron mainly providing the overall story and the puzzles.
In fact, the Putt Putt game which you are paraphrasing was written by Laurie Rose Bauman and Annie Fox, while Ron Gilbert was the project leader and one of the designers.
If anything, Ron has shown amazing variety as a designer - he made adventure games, children games and real-time strategy games, all of which were highly rated.
I'm not on the Ron Defense Team, but you used some dialog he didn't even write to question his skills as a designer and I just had to throw in my two cents.
I'm not on the Ron Defense Team, but you used some dialog he didn't even write to question his skills as a designer and I just had to throw in my two cents.
Wow, I really didn't get my point across well at all.
There's nothing wrong with that dialog. And I agree with you about the quality of the game. It was just the easiest way for me to try to represent the *style* of the game, the overall feel, on these here forums. The problem is that kid's games *tend* to be tame, low-key; certainly not cutting edge. This game was no different. It was a quality piece of software, but I think The Mermaid said it right - kids' games make for poor examples to judge when we compare against something like the MI games.
But that's the thing - in that case there's not that much in the last *18 years* to judge his work by. I'm not saying Ron isn't The Man. I'm saying there's not much way for me to know (his track record, his integration with TT, plus I don't know WTF really goes into modern game development and I bet you don't either). So I question the rabid "OMG I wuld kill a goat if only Ron+Tim+Dave would be BFFFs and get together for a WiLd OrGy GaMe DeV sEsiOn and totally rock our a$$es off with there awesomeness" that shows up on these forums occasionally.
* Star Wars Episode IV: Et nytt håp (1977) (regi, manus)
* Star Wars Episode V: Imperiet slår tilbake (1980) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og Jakten på den forsvunne skatten (1981) (manus, produsent)
* Star Wars Episode VI: Jediridderen vender tilbake (1983) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og de fordømtes tempel (1984) (manus, produsent)
* Indiana Jones og det siste korstog (1989) (manus, produsent)
That's more than three. Sure, the Indy movies were in collaboration with Steven Spielburg, but that doesn't matter. That just shows us that the best results will come from two talented people than from one alone. Which has already been proven by Telltale, Doublefine and maybe even Ron Gilbert himself. They were at their best when they worked together, but still good on their own. Kinda like George and Steven, dontchathink?
But that's the thing - in that case there's not that much in the last *18 years* to judge his work by. (...) So I question the rabid "OMG I wuld kill a goat if only Ron+Tim+Dave would be BFFFs and get together for a WiLd OrGy GaMe DeV sEsiOn and totally rock our a$$es off with there awesomeness" that shows up on these forums occasionally.
I get that, I'm right there with you.
I'm interested in what Ron can bring to the scene after all these years, but yes, I don't assume it will automatically be fantastic.
* Star Wars Episode IV: Et nytt håp (1977) (regi, manus)
* Star Wars Episode V: Imperiet slår tilbake (1980) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og Jakten på den forsvunne skatten (1981) (manus, produsent)
* Star Wars Episode VI: Jediridderen vender tilbake (1983) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og de fordømtes tempel (1984) (manus, produsent)
* Indiana Jones og det siste korstog (1989) (manus, produsent)
That's more than three. Sure, the Indy movies were in collaboration with Steven Spielburg, but that doesn't matter. That just shows us that the best results will come from two talented people than from one alone. Which has already been proven by Telltale, Doublefine and maybe even Ron Gilbert himself. They were at their best when they worked together, but still good on their own. Kinda like George and Steven, dontchathink?
Yes, teamwork rocks!
P.S. You know which three movies I was thinking of, right?
Comments
Why can't he make Monkey 3? He's said in interviews, specifically this one around the 4:00 mark that he enjoys CMI. I've seen other threads with links to interviews where he said that he would have to alter the story some but that it would still fit in with CMI. If that's the case then I see no reason why he couldn't make the game.
However, giving him license to do any retconning may open a can of worms. There's no guarantee that I/we would approve of any retconning done, even if it was done by Ron. Not this late in the series' lifespan.
Better to leave well enough alone.
I'd want it done as a one-shot. In Special Edition style, perhaps with an "original edition" built behind it if they really wanted to make it badass. Sell it as a "WHAT IF Monkey Island 3", after Monkey Island 2: Special Edition. Have the thing pretend the others don't exist, for the duration of one(1) game, and craft an ending to a three-game series. Even if people end up hating it, who cares? It's one game.
Then let Telltale do the "regular" series for a bit. They seem to have some good ideas going, story-wise.
Sham-wow, you just said what I was thinking.
OP: Hey look, Ron left Hothead! I wonder if—
Trolls Non-trolls: Ron sucks.
OP: What? I didn't even—
Trolls Non-trolls: His games fail.
OP: But what ab—
Trolls Non-trolls: If you love Ron so much, why don't you marry him?
OP: ...
So wait. You think Ron would go work for TTG before DS is released because he thinks it's going to fail AND you think Ron working at TTG will be a sign it's not going to fail? :rolleyes:
Please note: This guy was basically making episodic adventure games before it was even :cool:.
Neither was anyone, as far as I can tell.
Okay... I guess I'm sorry I mistook you for a troll.
Edit: Post fixed.
Considering that Telltale has never released original titles (except Telltale's Texas Hold'em), I think he's not as near to Telltale's vision as you might think.
I personally suspect that a lot of what we love about MI is at least as much Tim Schafer's doing as Ron Gilbert, so in the unlikely but possible event that Ron goes to TTG, that's very cool... but there's still a huge chunk of the 'holy trinity' missing.
I think people are just calling for some perspective about what a Ron Gilbert-enhanced Telltale would actually mean.
If it's made clear that there was another reason, like an option to join TTG, I would be less worried about DeathSpank being a total failure. But since such hasn't been confirmed yet (or any other "alternative reason" for leaving) I gotta stick with my first one, which is from what I can tell the most common to leave before gold. Ah, I didn't know he was actually involved in that one. That does make 1 game.
From what you have wrote on this subject that seems to be your only theory and you seem to want it to be true so you can say 'I told you so'.
Personally, I think he was contracted to Hothead for the duration of creating Deathspank. Now that that has been done, he's left his (presumably) full time position. The way I figure it, he wants to be a freelance creative guy but to make a game out of your idea you do need to be involved everyday of the creation process. So he joins Hothead. And after the product has been completed (from a creative point of view) he left.
I'm guessing either you've never played the other games from Humongous Entertainment, or you simply don't believe games designed for young children are good enough to meet your standards of quality.
That was kind of the point...
Have you played them? I'd never even heard of them until someone posted it on here. I'm not saying I believe that they suck. I'm saying I'll bet 10 bucks you can't say that they don't suck or aren't mediocre since you haven't played them either.
[EDIT:] Has anyone on here actually played any of Ron's other games? Are they any good or just mediocre or what? [/EDIT]
Why would someone want to be without a full time job on purpose? I think the fact that he left before the game went gold says more about that either he wanted to "get the heck out of Dodge" so bad that he couldn't wait, or that Hothead asked him to leave after the project was finished (suggesting that they didn't want him on full time.) You're probably not going to ever get him to admit the latter though, so it's hard to tell.
Troll.
Case in point.
And it marks the first time I've ever been called a troll on any forum.
I think I'll cherish this day. Or night rather.
As to my earlier point which you quoted, that is simply a theory I have which basically revolves around the possibility that Ron had a contract with Hothead which has now reach fulfilment. If that's the case then it's not really a matter of personal choice, though it could well be.
The simple fact is that we don't know the reason(s) for Ron's departure from Hothead and I doubt that we will ever fully know.
One thing I do know is that regardless of this news I'm still looking forward to the release of Deathspank.
I played A Putt-Putt game back when I was a lot younger and I remember loving it. I'm not sure if he made all of them but if he did then props because I loved it.
You can deposit my $10 to my Swiss bank account. (That means yes I have played them.)
It would help me to be less uncertain if I knew exactly how much and what kind of input Ron had when ToMI was being made, but the TTG Staff are kind of vague about that whole subject.
No, that's not what I said. Reread my posts. I think I was very clear and reasonable. Followed up by a bunch of non-trolls agreeing with me... So yeah. I think you're consciously misrepresenting what I said and applying "troll" tag simply because you disagree.
One of my points was that people seem to oversimplify the game development, software development, art generation process. For one thing, even if he's a huge talent he doesn't necessarily mesh with the Telltale crew. Same with oversimplifying people's career choices - personality conflicts, etc - especially in a creative field. It just seems really naiive.
Believe it or not, I played a big chunk of "Putt Putt Goes to the Moon" back in '93, which I've since read is one of the better games from that series. (longish story why I played it, it doesn't really matter). And I just skimmed through the playthrough video on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwqdbbGaIoY) to refresh my memory.
It was...a kid's game. As far as children's computer games go, particularly ones from the era, I suppose it was okay. Creative, brightly colored, entertaining. Made use of SCUMM. But nothing that I can think of that really showed truly impressive game design. I mean, these are Adventure games with typical dialog like:
"That looks like a space rocket!"
"It is a space rocket. And it just might be our ticket home."
"I wonder if it's for sale."
"It sure is."
"How much is it?"
"Ten moon crystals."
"But the rocket's missing a few parts. Take our blue flag. It will show you what you need."
"Thanks."
I'm not denigrating the game at all. It's a fine game. It's just that as kids' games, it's a bit tougher to draw a lot of conclusions from them about the skill of the designer(s), and we don't really know what involvement Ron had, anyway.
I have to say that it doesn't *seem* like an impressive resume after the LA days, though. Better than mine in the gaming world, I guess
Incidentally, the playthroughs for a large number of Humongous games are on Youtube, if anyone wants to have a watch through them.
Exactly. So, from my point of view, a rather poor example to judge the overall quality of Ron's games. ;-)
Not at all. Putt-Putt games were designed very well, with clear (and dynamic) puzzles and an intuitive interface, perfectly suited for the target audience.
The dialog is not necessarily written by the designer. For example, Tim Schafer and David Grossman wrote most of Monkey Island 1&2 as far as I know, with Ron mainly providing the overall story and the puzzles.
In fact, the Putt Putt game which you are paraphrasing was written by Laurie Rose Bauman and Annie Fox, while Ron Gilbert was the project leader and one of the designers.
If anything, Ron has shown amazing variety as a designer - he made adventure games, children games and real-time strategy games, all of which were highly rated.
I'm not on the Ron Defense Team, but you used some dialog he didn't even write to question his skills as a designer and I just had to throw in my two cents.
Wow, I really didn't get my point across well at all.
There's nothing wrong with that dialog. And I agree with you about the quality of the game. It was just the easiest way for me to try to represent the *style* of the game, the overall feel, on these here forums. The problem is that kid's games *tend* to be tame, low-key; certainly not cutting edge. This game was no different. It was a quality piece of software, but I think The Mermaid said it right - kids' games make for poor examples to judge when we compare against something like the MI games.
But that's the thing - in that case there's not that much in the last *18 years* to judge his work by. I'm not saying Ron isn't The Man. I'm saying there's not much way for me to know (his track record, his integration with TT, plus I don't know WTF really goes into modern game development and I bet you don't either). So I question the rabid "OMG I wuld kill a goat if only Ron+Tim+Dave would be BFFFs and get together for a WiLd OrGy GaMe DeV sEsiOn and totally rock our a$$es off with there awesomeness" that shows up on these forums occasionally.
Man, now I just feel like a buzzkill.
* Star Wars Episode IV: Et nytt håp (1977) (regi, manus)
* Star Wars Episode V: Imperiet slår tilbake (1980) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og Jakten på den forsvunne skatten (1981) (manus, produsent)
* Star Wars Episode VI: Jediridderen vender tilbake (1983) (produsent, manus)
* Indiana Jones og de fordømtes tempel (1984) (manus, produsent)
* Indiana Jones og det siste korstog (1989) (manus, produsent)
That's more than three. Sure, the Indy movies were in collaboration with Steven Spielburg, but that doesn't matter. That just shows us that the best results will come from two talented people than from one alone. Which has already been proven by Telltale, Doublefine and maybe even Ron Gilbert himself. They were at their best when they worked together, but still good on their own. Kinda like George and Steven, dontchathink?
I get that, I'm right there with you.
I'm interested in what Ron can bring to the scene after all these years, but yes, I don't assume it will automatically be fantastic.
Whoops! I actually forgot to add troll tags. Thanks!
Yes, teamwork rocks!
P.S. You know which three movies I was thinking of, right?
But hopefully now my point is clear, and the discussion can be closed, 'kay?
And yes, I definitely agree with that children games don't give a real good representation of skill levels involved, as good as they may be.
Fine with me. As for Deathspank, we'll wait and see.