Writing Elaine
Edit: Ahhh, I had a huuuuuge post written out here that I deleted by accident. I'll try to summarize and be brief.
The gist of it was how would you improve on Elaine being more likeable? To me, she:
1. obviously needs to snap less at Guybrush and consequently us, the players;
2. she needs to sound more like a sweetheart or a loving wife than my best friend's mum.
I think a total re-do of the character model would help, as she looked so...charming and pretty in the first and third games, whereas now she's more like a middle-aged woman - she seems 20 years older than Guybrush. And very, uh, British, as she says phrases like "Buckets" when Guybrush asks if she's missed him. Which is fine, but phrases like "Buckets" make her sound more like she's from Keeping Up Appearances than Monkey Island.
Elaine works best when she has the upper hand on everything - the better the comeback she has against Threepwood's enemies, the cooler she is. Obviously, after Trial and Execution, her character has developed enough that she doesn't trust herself that much anymore. Which I think means she'll be more open, which means she'll hopefully be more likeable...
I'm not suggesting that her being older is unappealing by default. I'm just saying that Elaine works best when she's more of a sweetheart and less of an angry mum. And her character model, unfortunately, reflects more of the latter than the former.
Just to elaborate, to me, this is the appealing Elaine:
Exotic and mysterious, in a way, and Alexandra Boyd's voice, which was softer and smoother in CMI than Tales, added to it. It's much harder to do that with this Elaine, who also looks like she has extra bones in her cheeks:
I hope it's not an unreasonable request to re-do her character model and make her more likeable. I love Elaine, when she's working; Guybrush loves Elaine by default. It'd be a shame to see her become a fifth wheel.
Edit: I don't mean she should be pretty and smart, aka some sort of man's woman. I'm not like that. I'm just saying that I enjoy my girlfriend's company when she's being nice. I take the good with the bad, but it wears on me if it's 80% bad and 20% good.
The gist of it was how would you improve on Elaine being more likeable? To me, she:
1. obviously needs to snap less at Guybrush and consequently us, the players;
2. she needs to sound more like a sweetheart or a loving wife than my best friend's mum.
I think a total re-do of the character model would help, as she looked so...charming and pretty in the first and third games, whereas now she's more like a middle-aged woman - she seems 20 years older than Guybrush. And very, uh, British, as she says phrases like "Buckets" when Guybrush asks if she's missed him. Which is fine, but phrases like "Buckets" make her sound more like she's from Keeping Up Appearances than Monkey Island.
Elaine works best when she has the upper hand on everything - the better the comeback she has against Threepwood's enemies, the cooler she is. Obviously, after Trial and Execution, her character has developed enough that she doesn't trust herself that much anymore. Which I think means she'll be more open, which means she'll hopefully be more likeable...
I'm not suggesting that her being older is unappealing by default. I'm just saying that Elaine works best when she's more of a sweetheart and less of an angry mum. And her character model, unfortunately, reflects more of the latter than the former.
Just to elaborate, to me, this is the appealing Elaine:
Exotic and mysterious, in a way, and Alexandra Boyd's voice, which was softer and smoother in CMI than Tales, added to it. It's much harder to do that with this Elaine, who also looks like she has extra bones in her cheeks:
I hope it's not an unreasonable request to re-do her character model and make her more likeable. I love Elaine, when she's working; Guybrush loves Elaine by default. It'd be a shame to see her become a fifth wheel.
Edit: I don't mean she should be pretty and smart, aka some sort of man's woman. I'm not like that. I'm just saying that I enjoy my girlfriend's company when she's being nice. I take the good with the bad, but it wears on me if it's 80% bad and 20% good.
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I'd also say that Elaine definitely IS a lot softer in Tales of Monkey Island. She beats poor Guybrush constantly in Escape, and in Curse the thing she punches him for isn't his fault in the slightest. In Tales she's never physically abusive towards Guybrush, even when she's
I completely agree.
No offence to whoever wrote the line in question, but I've lived in England for my entire life and I've never heard anyone say "buckets". It didn't seem British to me - it seemed fake-British and really unnatural.
It doesn't matter that she wasn't physically abusive; the way she behaved was pretty abrasive in general. You don't need to be violent to achieve that.
She was being overtly insincere, though, which just made her come across as more bitchy/bossy.
Man, Elaine must be a tough character to write. She's witty, intelligent and swashbuckling, yet shy. Up until now, she hasn't been particularly introverted...
I mean, she's more like a swashbuckling Juliet than anything. On the one hand, she doesn't need to say "Ah harrrr, I be a pirate!" (like in Spinner Cay) because she's enchanting and cool enough, say in the first game, to be able to get away with just being normal. She doesn't need to shout. She no longer has the self-confidence to do it. To Guybrush, she's the most beautiful woman in the world, right? She was certainly that in SMI. Why not re-kindle that feeling?
On the other hand, he can get away from her prison hold, dress up some monkeys in a bridal dress and just make fun of her tormentor. She's intelligent and witty.
But she is not a shouting, angry mum...And I really think a re-design of the character model would help with getting rid of that image.
Obviously I am not suggesting she be replaced but its just something I noticed.
Is that kind of thing even possible?
I almost feel bad saying this, but I really disliked her performance in Tales.
I preferred her 'soft' voice to her 'angry' one myself. She's great when she says "I love you", but when she says, "(sigh) Right then" or something, I dislike it. And phrases like "You hussey!" to Morgan only make her sound older, though that's more of a writing thing.
There were a lot of bits like "hussey" and "buckets" that seemed like 1960s/70s British slang rather than contemporary British slang that were really jarring, imo.
I did love her voice in CMI, and it was the best one yet, for me. I just think that Alexandra Boyd's acting in Tales wasn't her best. There were some parts where the delivery sounded a bit over-the-top, for me. Like the line in the opening scene where she says "You don't spend several years at the side of Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate, without picking up a few tricks, darling." That line is delivered with the whole "I'm rolling my eyes as I say this" tone, but it went on for too long to be a rolly-eyes thing (if that makes ANY sense at all).
I suppose it was a good performance overall, though. I'm being kind of nitpicky
Also, I can't be the only one to severely dislike Elaine's designs from Curse... right? Nothing about her face was ever appealing to me, with the square eyes and the lips and all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbVvSboeBA
Even if she is, she shouldn't sound like she's x > 2 years older than him, and she does come across as being at least twenty years older sometimes.
but thats cos guybrush acts like a 13 year old at times
This is strange. I hope they fix it...
Do you see the resemblance?
I just really want her to look younger if they decide to make a new character model. And write some of her lines better. Maybe fix the acting a little, though that probably needs sound engineering.
Anyone else out there not find the designs in curse appealing?
OBJECTION!!! I think Elaine's a lot closer to Beatrice from 'Much Ado About Nothing' than she is to Juliet, Juliet is WAY too vapid. Plus if she was more like Juliet, she'd have killed herself at the end of Trial and Execution. Lame.
PS: Found one I dislike. "Go to hell, LeChuck" is a great line. The delivery, however, sounds like a middle aged woman's. Which isn't Elaine.
She's mature, okay; but mentally, not in terms of age. It's a mistake to make her look like a 40ish woman. She shouldn't be 22 forever (that's what she looked to me in Secret - 22), but maybe 30 should be the upper bracket - unless Guybrush himself grows up just as much too. Yet he looks young. She can't be 40 and have him be 30 or 20. It's offputting.
I love the designs in Curse. Most of the people here would probably agree.
An actual morph of the two (from MorphThing.com) :
I think her beauty largely contributed to her character - both in an expected way (the wayyyy out of his league love interest that Guybrush gets) and in an unexpected way (not only is she beautiful, but she kicks ass too; she reverses the damsel in distress role on its head. She's a pirate, but she doesn't need to swear to force respect).
But how older? That's the thing.
Although he's matured a bit (he's no longer super sarcastic and childish, though he's totally okay with feeding an entire crew to a hungry manatee), he's still young. I'd peg him in his mid to late 20s. Nothing biggie. Elaine should be in that range. I think.
I don't mind dating older girls - my last girlfriend was two years older than I am - but there has to be a limit. Especially because she looked a few years younger than he did in the first game. It was Escape that brought up the possibility she was 20 years older, and that's just way, way, wayyyy too much. I like to think she's probably younger, but if she is older, one or two years should be the limit.
He says he's been adventuring for a decade. Whether that means after Escape or since the first game is up to interpretation, which is why I gave my estimate of 27-30.
Sounds like a personal preference to me. Why would there be a limit?
And wait a second. Guybrush definitely looked younger than Elaine in the first game, what are you talking about?
I'd go with those ages. I definitely don't think she's any younger than 22 in Secret, because she's already governor of Melee, and apparently has been for some time.
I think we can at least agree that she's way too old in Tales? That maybe she should be younger? Or he should be older?
Elaine looks like she's in her 20s, while Guybrush looks like he's a scraggly late teen.
idk, I thought it was done just right.
It's interesting how varied the opinions are in this thread. Just in case anyone's on the defensive, I am not a Guybrush/[edit]MORGAN shipper. I am also not critical of Tales, nor do I think it doesn't live up to the originals. I love Elaine and I love Tales, but I'm interested in seeing them get rid of their bad sides - bad sides that they could do without.
NOT find it unappealing? Because I hated the Curse design.
I like Elaine being snappy, and she usually does it to Guybrush when he actually deserves to be snapped at. In fact, I felt she didn't even do it enough in Tales. I like personalities that aren't sugary sweet all the time to everyone, otherwise they'd be boring. A lot of the best female characters are mean-spirited, like say Kazooie from the Banjo-Kazooie series. Male or female it makes their moments where they show even a little bit of their caring side a lot more endearing.
Half the charm in their relationship is that Guybrush does something unbelievably silly, and Elaine tells him. Yet she loves him. Notice that he is especially childish and silly in MI2, when he's single (at one point, crashing a party to steal a map, all while wearing a pink dress). But maybe she should do it more gently. And probably tell him she loved him more often. Maybe.
I'm not suggesting she be sugery sweet 100% Arwen at all. But maybe less of a screaming narwhal too.
I'm confused, you want to see Elaine being more of a loving wife, but you don't like Guybrush/Elaine? Or do you not like Guybrush/Elaine because of the way she currently behaves?
It sounds like you're just talking about personal preference when it comes to what you find appealing in a relationship rather than what the designers thought was appealing to Guybrush and Elaine.