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Christopher Lloyd's unique Gestures, how are they gonna be animated?

Jon NAJon NA
edited November 2010 in Back to the Future
I don't think he can act for animators so they can animate his gestures, what do you think are they gonna do?
Ask another actor to impersonate his acting?
This is really important for the comedic value and the overall experience...

EDIT: Read Vainamoinen's post down this page to get a better idea about this.
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Comments

  • jp-30jp-30
    edited June 2010
    I think they're gonna give up and replace him in-game with a static 16x16 pixel sprite.
  • Jon NAJon NA
    edited June 2010
    jp-30 wrote: »
    I think they're gonna give up and replace him in-game with a static 16x16 pixel sprite.
    Heh :)

    I don't know if Robert Zemekis could lend his motion capture device he used in "a Christmas Carol" to TellTale for this game :D
  • plrichardplrichard
    edited June 2010
    One word: Stan.
  • SilverwolfpetSilverwolfpet
    edited June 2010
    Another Word: Majus

    He's awesome at this type of animations!
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited June 2010
    If they have him doing voice acting, they'll probably record him in the studio. He seems like the sort who would get into it even if it's "just" voice work.

    If they have a new actor doing it, hopefully he'll be just as enthusiastic and expressive.
  • SHODANFreemanSHODANFreeman
    edited June 2010
    They got Wallace and Gromit's unique gestures down pretty well, I think they could handle Mr. Lloyd's.
  • Flyingman356Flyingman356
    edited June 2010
    Wallace and Gromit were near-static clay figures.
  • JunaidJunaid
    edited June 2010
    It's not impossible, it's just a lot of work
  • Little WriterLittle Writer
    edited June 2010
    Ah, Christopher Lloyd ... I have an autographed photo of him in his Doc Brown getup, from when I found this booklet full of fanmail addresses as a kid.
  • techie775techie775
    edited June 2010
    plrichard wrote: »
    One word: Stan.


    exactly what I was thinking when I saw this thread's title.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited June 2010
    No... not Stan. Definitly not Stan!

    The question might need a broader perspective. Let's not only take "gesture" into account, but a more general "behaviour in dialogue".

    Stan embodies about the maximum of movement a character in an adventure game ever delivered while speaking to another character. All the more clearly, he shows the signs of the hitherto existing limitations. While speaking, he is still glued to where he stands; his gestures are repetitive and definitly not sensitive to the conversational context; his eyes are fixed on the person he's speaking to (I might replay ToMI to check if this is entirely right in the "Trial and execution". Stan might have broken at least one of these rules at least partly).

    Doc Brown's conversational behaviour is far more complex than that, and it might be a tedious yet cathartic work for Telltale to study and imitate this character's actions:
    1. Doc "conducts the world" - Christopher Lloyd stated that his performance is somewhat based on conductor Leopold Stokowski.
    2. The speed of Doc's gestures always varies from aggressively quick to meaningfully slow.
    3. Doc gestures around a character, not necessarily in his direction. It can feel like a dance sometimes.
    4. Eye contact is optional. Sometimes Doc stares in a completely different direction for a long time, is suddenly distracted by something in the environment or swerves his head when an important idea strikes him.
    5. Still, when he gets to his all-important point, he stares you directly in the eye, getting very close, invading your personal space.
    6. Sometimes, he just walks or runs into erratic directions while speaking to you (When landing in 1955 in BTTF II, there's a scene when Marty is especially irritated by this).
    7. If we were only speaking about facial animation, we could open another heavy book of Christopher Lloyd's brilliant over-acting. He does things with his eyes alone other actors can only dream of.

    Additions, anyone? :D
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited June 2010
    I have one. You're brilliant. I can't see Stan at all after reading your post. Of course, all I really want to see is Doc. Doc Brown is such a lovable character. I wanted to cry the first time I saw the scene where Marty reads his letter to Doc that was supposed to save his life. He's one of the most lovable characters ever. Stan, on the other hand, is a doubler dealer, and he's fun to screw over.

    No, I don't think I want to nail Doc into any coffins in the BTTF game.
  • FealiksFealiks
    edited June 2010
    Hopefully every dialogue scene will be fully mapped out by animators (in terms of Doc's movement, lack of eye-contact, etc., - all the things raised by Vainamoinen), but that might be unlikely.
  • Jon NAJon NA
    edited June 2010
    @Vainamoinen that's exactly what I wanted to say in the first post but I didn't know how to explain in such great detail! Thanks :) I'm going to address the first time readers to your post by editing my first post.
    I'm gonna pay detailed attention to his movements while I re-watch the 2nd and 3rd films to see if I can find anything else to be added in your list
    Hopefully every dialogue scene will be fully mapped out by animators (in terms of Doc's movement, lack of eye-contact, etc., - all the things raised by Vainamoinen), but that might be unlikely.
    yeah I mean how the h*** are they gonna do it? a Motion Capture devise for capturing Christopher Lloyd's acting? I guess it's too expensive for TellTale to buy and besides Mr.Lloyd is kinda old for that kind of movements and acting :( You can't program a model to do all that acting automatically, So yeah as you said get ready for a robotic version of Doc. Brown guys, it's too hard to be done, or is it? let's discuss it while we wait and see what TT does.
  • jp-30jp-30
    edited June 2010
    Telltale's animators will watch the movies, then replicate his movements with the model in-game.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited June 2010
    I might even do some movement study drawings while watching the movies. Unfortunately, I lent my triology to my boss... who is on vacation right now... njarrrgggghhhhh... :(
  • MyrphMyrph
    edited June 2010
    Or, ya know, they could just do what they did in Toonstruck...
  • SpykesSpykes
    edited June 2010
    Myrph wrote: »
    Or, ya know, they could just do what they did in Toonstruck...

    There's no way they go back to FMV. That's a dead format in terms of making large chunks of video games.
  • FarlanderFarlander
    edited June 2010
    Well, as long as they'll manage to replicate this face expression, I'll be happy.

    doc-emmett-l-brown.jpg
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited June 2010
    Although that one's particularly impressive, you actually can't see his eyes in the picture.
    Spykes wrote: »
    There's no way they go back to FMV. That's a dead format in terms of making large chunks of video games.

    Also, it's just not Telltale's way. ;)
    If any gaming company would be willing to put that much effort into animating a single character, it's probably TTG. And I do consider it possible. Only original voice actors are more than doubtful, an original, new, Alan-Silvestri-composed soundtrack is even more doubtful, and let's not start to talk about one of my personal dreams: New box BTTF art by Drew Struzan. Animating Doc? Quite possible! :D
  • bubbledncrbubbledncr Telltale Alumni
    edited June 2010
    Vainamoinen wrote: »

    Doc Brown's conversational behaviour is far more complex than that, and it might be a tedious yet cathartic work for Telltale to study and imitate this character's actions:

    Tedious is the definition of animation :-)
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited June 2010
    docgesturesttgf.jpg
  • doodo!doodo!
    edited June 2010
    Mannerisms is one thing, but even if he's extremely animated, if you don't get the facial expressions then it's just not Doc. It's like those horrible modern Star Wars action figures that have a face that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger when the action figure is modeled after princess Leia...


    Better example is a wooden puppet.

    I honestly think the best way to go about this is to be a little cartoon, just enough to bring out his liveliness. Exaggerate certain faces/ details that they just can't do without making a game with better graphics than Doom 4. :D

    Sort of like a trick, illusion. Actually reminds me of Lucas Arts games like DOTT only in 3D.

    I haven't been this confused and excited about a game since Tron appeared in Kingdom Hearts games.
  • TromeritusTromeritus
    edited July 2010
    They'll have a ton of fun with that, I'm sure.

    I can just see it now...

    Interviewer: "So BttF is being released on December 28th?"
    TT Staff #1: "That's right."
    I: "You made the ballpark of Winter 2010, but aren't you cutting it awfully close?"
    TT Staff #2: "Well you see, we actually finished 99% of the game by early November..."
    I: "Really? What happened with the last 1%?"
    TT Staff #1: "Doc Brown..."
    TT Staff #2: "Dear god, Doc Brown. The fans would've skinned us alive if we didn't get him right."
    TT Staff #1: "My dreams are just a montage of every scene Chris Lloyd appears in during the trilogy."
    TT Staff #2: "Same, but in slow motion with sharpie scribbles meticulously noting his range of motion."
  • IrishmileIrishmile
    edited July 2010
    I'm still trying to figure out how they got their hands on a Flux Capacitor
  • splash1splash1
    edited July 2010
    Irishmile wrote: »
    I'm still trying to figure out how they got their hands on a Flux Capacitor

    Ebay?
  • bttf1985ccbttf1985cc
    edited July 2010
    They will be able to get it down and it should come out cool!
  • xbskidxbskid
    edited July 2010
    Farlander wrote: »
    Well, as long as they'll manage to replicate this face expression, I'll be happy.

    doc-emmett-l-brown.jpg

    Seconded!
  • LeakLeak
    edited July 2010
    Irishmile wrote: »
    I'm still trying to figure out how they got their hands on a Flux Capacitor
    This - at least if it really is released as planned... :D

    np: Autechre - M62 (Move Of Ten)
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited July 2010
    Yeah the only reason I'd be concerned about this is that the Telltale tool allows for a lot of reuse of the same animation... and Christopher Lloyd's acting generally doesn't :p
  • xbskidxbskid
    edited July 2010
    Would they be able to bring Lloyd in for some mocap sessions? Video of that would be prime content for the DVD!
  • FarlanderFarlander
    edited July 2010
    You know what I think would be cool? If they get Christopher Lloyd he should voice a line "I WAS FROZEN TODAY!" as a kind of a funny easter egg.
  • StevenMcFlyJrStevenMcFlyJr
    edited July 2010
    Or when Marty scares him in the beginning of BTTF3 against the piano. That face & acting = timeless. :-)

    @ JP-30: I agree fully ... they can easily re-create the movement by having a die-hard view of the films repeatedly.
  • Simo Sakari AaltonenSimo Sakari Aaltonen
    edited July 2010
    Amazing analysis of Chris Lloyd as Doc Brown, Vainamoinen.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited November 2010
    Thanks! Thought I'll give this a bump - it's been more than two months since someone expressed concern regarding Doc Brown's gesture repertoire. ;)

    Maybe all the new posters have a take on that matter.
  • SilverwolfpetSilverwolfpet
    edited November 2010
    I don't... but I love your analysis! May I use the info on that for the tribute?
  • OrigamiOrigami
    edited November 2010
    Great drawing Vaina.
    Maybe you could post links to clips as reference. I want to see some highlights of the mannerisms.
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited November 2010
    Yeah I'm surprised I didn't comment on that sketch before, that really is a great bit of analysis. I believe the idea was that Christopher Lloyd had to do those sorts of hunched-over poses because he was so much taller than MJF, but he took such an odd, potentially awkward thing and made it such a believable part of the character. Really phenomenal acting
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited November 2010
    Origami wrote: »
    Maybe you could post links to clips as reference. I want to see some highlights of the mannerisms.

    Unfortunately, I can't. But the sketches were done mostly during Doc's exposition in the first BTTF movie, I'm sure some moments can be identified. I mostly tried to draw a perspective where the gesture is most obvious, so in most cases, you won't see the exact perspective on-screen.

    And Silverwolfpet, if it's indeed any help, go ahead!!
  • apenpaapapenpaap
    edited November 2010
    I think they'll get Doc's gesturing right. They managed to do it with Stan too, after all.
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