Monkey Island 2: Lechuck's Revenge: Special Edition Reviews, and the removal of imuse
There are currently 2 reviews out for the game, if you find a review that I have missed, or if you have made a review yourself, post on this thred or PM me to add it to this list.
Reviews So far:
1Up
Touch Arcade
IGN
According to 1Up imuse has been entirely removed from the game, even from classic mode! Not to mention part of the ending cut off and the inability to switch to classic mode in the intro-much like the original SE.
EDIT: Noticed that much of this is being discussed on the main MI2:SE thread. Mods, you can lock this if you wish.
Reviews So far:
1Up
Touch Arcade
IGN
According to 1Up imuse has been entirely removed from the game, even from classic mode! Not to mention part of the ending cut off and the inability to switch to classic mode in the intro-much like the original SE.
EDIT: Noticed that much of this is being discussed on the main MI2:SE thread. Mods, you can lock this if you wish.
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Comments
Yes, Woodtick worked just fine with all the iMuse transitions. But I did notice one iMuse-ing spot that seemed to be gone from the game. (And I've only just completed Part I) When you row into the Voodoo Lady's shack, there's a short music cue that should play as the skull jaws close to lift you into the shack. (Like, 3 notes... but it's always timed to fit with the music) This seems to be gone in MI2:SE as I have yet to hear it in either the special or classic editions. There may be other examples of missing iMuse cues as well. And 1UP's point about the classic mode music sounding terrible does ring true I fear. Whatever ScummVM used to emulate the music on MI2 and the other Lucasarts games sounds way better than the "Classic Mode" version in MI2:SE.
Among the few problems, I noticed:
- Leaving Stan's seems to be just faded off instead of playing the propper ending cue.
- Entering and leaving Largo's room changes instrument a bit abrupt instead of fading smoothly. Same thing at the far tomb stones.
- Instrument played annoyingly out of sync at the voodoo hut once. It worked fine when I revisited the place later.
- The vocals to the bone song didn't play well in sync. (Which probably would require changing the game scripts to fix.)
Missing iMuse functionality so far:
- The short cue when entering the voodoo hut.
- The entire dialog with Elaine.
Positive surprised after reading that 1up-review:
- Woodtick seems pretty complete, and unlike the reviewer states, there are a lot of different transitions. Which one is used depends on how far the song played before the transition takes place. Just like the original game did. Really, this part can't be done any better. It's perfection, so to speak.
Other positive things where this review apparently differs: The concept art drawings are actually in a pretty good resolution. I wonder if the reviewer even read the on screen text which recommends to click on an image to see it full screen, or is the PC version really better than the XBox version? And auto-saving seems to be another feature absent from the PC version, thus the described problems with it don't occur either.
Where I would agree with the reviewer is the commentary icon displayed over and over again, despite the commentary was already played. And after the opening dialog, the game goes right to Scabb Island instead of the intro sequence, which is a totally unnecessarily omission indeed.
A bit unusual is the GUI. I wonder if the game is playable at all with a two-button-mouse. The 3rd button seems to be the only way to reach the inventory (unless you switch to classic mode, of course). I know, those are rare nowadays, but they exist.
On the MT-32 soundtrack, I can confirm that it sounds slightly different to my MT-32 in some places. I wonder how that could happen. They didn't use ScummVM to record it, did they? ScummVM does play it slightly different to native SCUMM.
Just like MI1SE, there are some classic pixels in the new graphics too here, but it seems much less this time. The far worst example of this I noticed is at the Scabb Island beach left of the camp fire.
Another surprise to me was Dread's theme. They played a shuffle version of it instead of keeping the original rhythm. This actually works very well, I think.
Overall, MI2SE gives a more professional impression to me than MI1SE did. The missing intro sequence is a pity, though.
That's not true. ScummVM emulated Adlib which doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the MT-32 (which the soundtrack was written for). The SE recorded the music straight from the MT-32 soundtrack but in some instances used the wrong instruments (like Woodtick). The rest is very faithful to the original soundtrack. And while there are a few hiccups and mistakes, it sounds better than ScummVM for sure.
You forgot the LeChuck version of the Voodoo Swamp theme. It's not iMused at all and it should be.
np: Fluxion - Elation (Perfused)
Wait, you're saying that the SE's classic mode music sounds better than the VGA version does in ScummVM??
ugh. I strongly disagree.
I enjoyed the first special edition as a novelty but the interface was so painfully clunky, and some of the designs so 'off' that I wouldn't feel entirely comfortable recommending it as a 'definitive' version to someone who'd never played the game before. But based on what I've seen so far I wouldn't have a problem recommending this version to anyone. I don't think the casting of Elaine or Stan will ever sit right with me, but otherwise thus far just about everything that was ever great about the game is shining through just fine.
I'm guessing the issues with iMuse in classic mode came about because the special edition version runs off the same programming as the original, so to get the updated cues to work they probably had to fiddle with the old ones a bit. It's unfortunate, as is the weaker sound quality on the classic version. But the new soundtrack and iMuse effects in the HD version are excellent so I can't be too harsh.
and also they changed the line a new nintendo game to a new lucasarts game.
They obviously did that for copyright reasons. Also, in the costume shop in classic mode, if you look at the Sam and Max costume it doesn't say "I should go out and buy the latest comic from Steve Purcell!" It just says what it says when you look at all the other costumes. Plus in the new versions, all the Sam and Max references in the background and changed to Purple Tentacle references.
then why was it allowed in the original game
Because Steve Purcell (who owns the rights to Sam & Max) used to work at Lucasarts (hence the classic Lucasarts game 'Sam & Max Hit the Road'), he also worked on Monkey Island 2. He later left Lucasarts and thus they lost the license and then Sam & Max was licensed to Telltale and... well, you know the rest.
MT-32 emulation in ScummVM is awful. It doesn't count. In the SE at least they recorded directly from a real MT-32, which sounds far better than both the Adlib and MT-32 emulation that ScummVM outputs.
For the themes in classic mode that were recorded correctly from a real MT-32, yes they are better than Adlib or ScummVM's (currently) awful MT-32 emulation. If the classic mode soundtrack in the SE could be patched with the correct recordings it'd be excellent (if not for the missing tracks in certain areas).
Consistency is important.
Well, that doesn't explain Nintendo among others. But I know the answer to that one. There was a time when licensing issues were not nearly as harsh as they are now. Back then, including things like this would rarely cause any trouble. Just like Sensible World of Soccer included correct player and team names all the way up to the '96/'97 edition.
iMuse is gone. They've tried to imitate it with various transitions (and did a pretty good job considering) but there are many hiccups in the game because they've had to rewrite all the transitions from scratch rather than rely on what was originally in the game.
Charlie
I noticed, the love theme does have iMuse after all, but something is missing there nevertheless. Sounds odd.
And I'm surprised, the voodoo hut music is mixed in real time of four tracks instead of cross fading them (which they do at the cemetery). This comes pretty close to what the MIDI version did. Too bad, those tracks play out of sync sometimes.
The love theme iMuse cues are all these in the audio files with everything else that's "missing" it's just not scripted properly it seems.
PS - I am not saying the issues don't exist, I'm just saying I didn't notice them
There was an iMuse digital used in older Lucasarts games but the people behind it left long ago. This is something different. They did a good job considering the scope of the game but there are still lots of hiccups and even the transitions in woodtick (where they obviously spent a lot of time) are nowhere near as varied as in the original game.
Charlie
The review at 1UP being discussed was for the 360 version, which does have broken iMuse (appears they forget to include a file that makes the iMuse work, can be patched easily. some are doing it themselves). Shame on 1up for not testing other versions and mentioning this.
The iMuse (or rather the very good attempt at interpreting it) works on PS3, PC and iPad just fine. And is IMO very impressive (but not as good as the real thing).
Also many are claiming the PS3 version is in Mono. I have this version and can't tell when comparing it to the 360 demo myself, they both sound mono to me. But the difference with the iMuse is VERY apparent.
See this video for iMuse comparisons -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkMoHEFtnLQ
Regarding iMuse however, if you listen to the developer commentary while in Woodtick, they discuss how the creators spent all their time developing it and, "nobody noticed...". I think Ron pipes in at that point and says, "Well, I noticed..."
1) They got rid of the monkey dance at the beginning. For shame!
2) I wish they used the simplistic control scheme of the improved HD version for the classic version. When I switched over to classic, I was dissapointed about having to drag a cursor around.
The second one can't be blamed, it was meant to be a classic monkey version, but the first one... There is no excuse for that.
http://www.gamezebo.com/iphone-games/monkey-island-2-special-edition-lechuck%E2%80%99s-revenge/review
How is this being done? Can you point to a link where people are working on this?
Also, a Monkey Island Adventures message from Facebook:
It's not like it ruins the game, I enjoyed the SE, but the loss of iMuse and the intro certainly make it not the definitive version, which an SE should be.
There are some timing and cueing issues with some of the music, and of course the out of sync song, but as far as I'm concerned, they've produced a definitive version of the soundtrack here. If I want to listen to MI2 music, this is the version I'll go to.
Uh? They did code cross fading, there is just a missing file preventing it from working in the 360 version. All other versions do cross fading perfectly and sound great.
Source - http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/991338-monkey-island-2-special-edition-lechucks-revenge/55539796
No, they didn't implement crossfading. It's all abrupt changes. He's not talking about iMuse itself, which he said works. I agree with him. It sounds choppy and sloppy and programming in a crossfading feature between tracks wouldn't have been that difficult.
YES, YES THEY DID! The abrupt changes are ONLY in the 360 version. I have the PS3 and iPad versions and they cross fade between music to replicate the iMuse system just fine.
I can't say I remember that particular music change (but I' sure it's the same as the rest), but when you go from the dock to the bar, or the blacksmiths etc. yes you get cross fade to each piece of music. Except in the 360 version.
You can hear this here and the messed up 360 version -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkMoHEFtnLQ
there's transitions, and there's crossfades. the transitions are there, we all know it. we're talking about the crossfades.
You are correct in that some of them have a transition piece before switching which is not just a crossfade (it is also NOT an "abrupt" change either!). I would argue that is is playing a transition piece and crossfading at the same time, but I may be wrong.
Also in those areas the transition is how iMuse did it, so you would not want it to be a simple crossfade.
There are some parts of the music where the other piece of music is the same with additional instruments (like talking to the men of low moral fibre), sounds like it crossfades to me. It's certainly not abrupt (or choppy and sloppy) like the 360 version which just switched to each piece of music.
Yes. Yes, it is an abrupt change. Go play the original and you'll notice the difference. They actually faded in the alternate iMuse tracks in and out (Largo's room and the inn theme) but in the SE it's an abrupt change. I'm not saying iMuse doesn't work, I'm saying it could have worked better and more true to the original.
No, it's not how the original did it. The original iMuse crossfaded alternate tracks (Largo's room & inn theme, low moral fiber guys and mad marty, etc). If you don't believe me go play it yourself.
Yes, it is an abrupt change. I have the PC version. It's abrupt. If you can't notice the difference between this and the original (which does crossfade) than you'd have to be completely deaf and just talking out of your hat. Again, I'm not talking about the fact that the 360 doesn't have iMuse at all. That's a completely different issue. The tracks play correctly but just changes so abruptly from one alternate track to the next. I must stress that I'm not talking about iMuse transitions like in Woodtick, I'm talking about the iMuse tracks that switch to alternate versions of the same theme like the low moral fiber guys and mad Marty, the cemetery themes (entrance, hillside, grave, and Rapp's theme), and Largo's room and the inn theme.
It is far from an abrupt change, it plays a transitional piece at the appropriate time (not immediately after a room change but when it suits the music) and then quickly fades into the music for the new room. You want to know what "abrupt" sounds like, go listen to the 360 version -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkMoHEFtnLQ
Now the only areas where they could not do much better would be like the swamp going to the Voodoo Ladies IHOM, in the original new instruments would be added as you progressed through the swamp, if you stopped moving, instruments would not be added. They have not been able to do that of course.
But when the music changes from room to room, they have handles the transition in a very competent way.
I understand what you are saying, it's not as smooth and impressive as actual iMuse. But's it's not realistic to expect them to replicate iMuse perfectly with digital music for a $10 game.
I think our argument here may be a semantic one, my definition of "abrupt' would be an instant change to the different track (like the 360 version at present), it does not do that on the other versions it uses a combination of transitional pieces (at appropriates times and not abruptly) and crossfades. As StingingVelvet said.
Crossfading is one of many iMuse features. Only a few rooms use it. Other rooms are not affected by this issue.