Well I just gotta say that I loved the episode, it was constantly hilarious until the surprisingly dramatic conclusion, and I thought the ending was done quite well but one thing still bothered me:
the lack of interaction between Sam & Max in this episode.
Don't get me wrong I still thought the episode was great, but Sam & Max together is what makes the Sam & Max series what it is. Sure we had Sam chat up some of the Max spores, and discuss the plot with Max's Superego but Sam and Max themselves never seemed to interact. Even within Max's body there didn't weren't many signs that Max seemed to think or care about Sam with the main exception being perhaps Max's inventory.
The closest thing we ever got to some 'real' interaction was at the end when Max waves 'goodbye' to Sam before leaving for good. That scene was very powerful to me, and it showed that Max does care a lot about his best friend.
Maybe that's why everyone is so torn up about the ending, (along with the fact that there are two of them) Sam & Max finally meet up again, but it's not really the Max that everyone was hoping for. We're happy to see them together again but we're also sad for the lose of the Max why sacrificed himself to save the world.
I'm not really sure where I'm getting at with this long-winded post, but what I do know is that this is definatly one of the best bitter-sweet endings in any media I've experienced since it shows that it is possible to care deeply about the friendship between and canine detective and a sociopathic lagomorph.
That was the whole point though. They were separated and had no way of talking to each other or communicating other than through the flaming heads, and even then only traces of his personality were present. I'm guessing Max was never in control of the body and thus had very little choice in the matter thanks to the tumor. I thought it was a clever way of keeping you close and pushing you back, and drawing you in further to want to save max, which makes the ending sadder as well. I loved that aspect of it greatly, especially junior max waving goodbye, that was so so so sad.
My biggest gripe is still no big baddie confrontation or final difficult puzzle. "It's something you've overlooked..." My ass! I listened to all the records the first time I was in that room!
The more I think about it, I was angry at the ending for this episode, but the forum-goers here have brought things up that changed my mind. I didn't like that Max A or X or whatever us cool kids are calling him was so excited about blowing up the electromagnetic monster Sam, but I suppose that's part of his personality.
The Devil's Playhouse is the Sam & Max game I've always hoped for, and yet could never expect. The rabbity thing and his dog companion have a soul after all, and you'll end up truly caring for them: an outstanding accomplishment, somehow completely unpredictable.
I'm really disappointed in this episode gameplay-wise. The one time I was stuck wasn't because I didn't know what I was supposed to do(
knock that damn roach farm down with the robot vacuum cleaner
or even because I wasn't trying quite correctly(
I smacked that damn thing something like 30 times
but because I wasn't doing it OFTEN ENOUGH in the RIGHT PLACE. There wasn't really an indication of this at all and it's not something that has to do with the puzzle outsmarting me, so I'm fairly disappointed all in all. This season pulled off a lot of things adequately, the production values were really high, and the humor was pretty well-executed throughout but overall I feel...disappointed. This season was...lesser than its older brethren, though Telltale went into it with far more resource-wise. Maybe it's due to that. But everyone else here seems to be particularly happy so...meh. I guess there's an audience for it.
I'm really disappointed in this episode gameplay-wise.
I was also very disappointed with the "puzzles" in this episode; 303's were stellar in comparison. The opening one was the best, the only one with any complexity, and it was spoiled with the non-logical Superball solution requiring a leap of faith instead of reason or imagination. Afterward, it was mostly doing the only things that could be done given the limited points of interaction, stumbling into solutions often without any basis for knowing how it would be important (fog machine, showing Sybil the baby roach). I have no idea how I got a photo of the Devil's Toybox in my inventory, and no interest in re-playing to find out.
In the best adventure games, I get the feeling that I'm discovering the narrative; at various points throughout the season, but especially in the entirety of 305, I was just being pulled along on a string through the narrative. Doesn't matter to me whether the story is fantastic or merely good; without some challenge in the gameplay, it's just a tedious click-through.
The only thing I don't really like about the ending, even after Jake's little explanation on it, is that it's wiped out the TellTale years of Max. Max from the past is from 102, and they went off on their own adventures, so the Max WE were used to, joked with, etc, for pretty much all of the TellTale timeline from 102 onwards is now gone and we have an Alternate timeline Max instead, who yes, Sam and Max still grew up together, etc, but it's not the Max we've bonded with the past three seasons.
Also the time travel doesn't make sense, I always refer to back to the Future for that kind of thing which is Ironic as it's TellTale next game.
I've been reading some of the complaints in the thread and I feel I have to step up for telltale here. Shame on those of you complaining about models used and cameo descriptions! Hi, did we all forget that this is a series that prides itself on script and characters over length and budget? These guys have to try and make the most satisfying ending they can think of. They're not being paid as much as they should be, they're not the massive company powerhouses like sony and nintendo, and you know what- they put out some of the best stuff on the market despite these setbacks. I honestly challenge any of you to come up with more intriguing endings or character choices. It's not easy staying one step ahead of the fans every month, I imagine, and yet Telltale manage it perfectly (seriously, half of the returning cast gave me a bit of a start.)
This series has also been the best storywise. My problem with the original two seasons is that they're a little too out there- not really the subject matter but the way everything is connected. Thiis series just connects everything together perfectly. We had our great villain in the last episode, and that was enough. We didn't need a second shocking revelation, we just needed to save max. Also, this season has been the most varied. No longer is it 'start episode, do soemthing for bosco and sybil, go one place else, end episode.' It's really fun just seeing all these new places each episode and seeing where the characters end up next.
And of course, people saying this episode feels very max-less are missing the point. The whole episode is max oreientated. The season has deliberately alienated him a bit- last episodes explanation was that Sam is the ultimate straight guy, the man who isn;t nearly as important or special as max, who is seperated from him to keep that distance. Here we actually had a bunch of characters concerning themselves with max again, only to find that he has his own inner demons to struggle with. I think this has definitely been sams series and it succeeds for it. If you're complaining that there's not enough sam being with max, because that feels right, you're forgetting that good storytelling isn't about giving you what feels right. If anything it's stronger for taking a much lonlier and more human path. It's made Sam an extremely enjoyable character to watch, and my only regret is that season 2 didn't make the right choice in making him the final villain (or his future self, anyway.)
Telltale, you've outdone yourselves. You've made something funny, but with some actual warmth and character development to it. I think it's going to be hard for you to top this one. Personally I feel that the series itself ends on this beautifully bittersweet moment. Money well spent on a great ride.
I thought it was a great episode and I honestly didn't mind the severe lack of Max.
At all.
Just two things about the season overall.
1. At no point do you revisit the office in season 3. Not a big deal, but it would've been nice.
2. Some of the 'serious' moments like Noir Sam fell flat and made me uncomfortable. I thought
Sal's
death this episode was handled perfectly: Just an opportunity to make some clever jokes, and not something I'm actually supposed to feel sad about.
Sam and Max used to occasionally make jokes about the death of the other, and how they would (basically) only be mildly peeved. It should've stayed that way.
Actually, my biggest problems with this episode WERE with the writing. I've been pretty consistently pleased with this season so far, but this episode fell short for me in terms of both narrative and gameplay.
At the risk of repeating my sentiments almost verbatim from another thread:
Big character developments would occur unearned, out of nowhere, for plot's sake. Max for some reason deciding to do a selfless act (something the narrator points out he has never done before), conveniently appeasing his superego and deus-ex-machina-ing away the Big Bad of the whole series? Really?!
So, if Sybil's water had broken in 301, and Max had decided to arbitrarily sympathize with her for some reason, all of this would have been prevented? Or if he had decidedly to arbitrarily sympathize with some other character? Nothing I did all season actually contributed to this resolution??
This, combined with the heavy-handed treatment of Max's sacrifice/death, and the arbitrary, hollow death of Sal* made the whole episode leave a bad taste in my mouth. It makes me think Telltale had better stick to the zany comedy-jokes, as their attempts at drama/character development in this episode were kind of cheap, cheesy, and unearned. I see what they were going for, but they didn't pull it off.
Aside from the narrative laziness, it seemed like a lot of the puzzles were rather rote, and one-note, relying on items dropped in places by the inventory fairy. Let's see, I need a video projector, a photo of the toy box, a camera, and a time bomb...say...here's a projector, a photo of the toy box, a video camera and a time bomb! Perhaps the most egregious example is the final puzzle, where a single room, with more or less a single possible action, uses a single item that has miraculously appeared in your inventory for this scene for this purpose. I'm not even sure why they bothered pausing the final cut-scene to allow this perfunctory moment of 'interaction.'
*Aside from the tonal and narrative problems with Sal's death, I also was kind of irritated that this episode brought back a bunch of tired Season 1 & 2 characters and killed off one of the funniest new characters introduced this season.
I really really liked this season, and was pretty geared up for this episode, with the whole Max-monster and everything. Sad to say, I was pretty disappointed with the whole resolution.
Sam and Max used to occasionally make jokes about the death of the other, and how they would (basically) only be mildly peeved. It should've stayed that way.
Sam, at least, has been upset about the idea of losing Max practically since the beginning. In Bad Day on the Moon, there page where he notices that Max is dead has no jokes in it at all, unless you count him having a paper bag as a callback to the penny-conscious moon gear joke. And in Culture Shock, when Max is kidnapped, almost any clickable object makes Sam miss Max.
Max seems to feel that same way, at least in the cartoon.
Perhaps the most egregious example is the final puzzle, where a single room, with more or less a single possible action, uses a single item that has miraculously appeared in your inventory for this scene for this purpose. I'm not even sure why they bothered pausing the final cut-scene to allow this perfunctory moment of 'interaction.'
But it's the fact that it doesn't revert to the norm of the zaniness that makes it so refreshing. The idea that there's a much bigger picture here is really nice to see in this kind of franchise, because the point is deliberately for the characters to say 'yeah, I think I prefferred it when it was just random adventuring too. But life doesn't always pan out that way.' You need pathos and comedy in balance if you're going to have something special on your hands otherwise it becomes 'let's become a meme and forget that there's a reason these characters work.'
And we already had our big baddie last episode. There was no big final villain, that was the joke. The mastermind was simply another factor of Maxes uncontrollable crazyness, and frankly, it was fed up. The affection plot device works because it makes the point that it has to at the time that it has to. He wasn't deus-exed away at all. He was never there to begin with.
This whole episode was meant to be about Max, and it was. I don't at all see how it was cheesy or cheap, because this kind of thing just hasn't been done with comedy point and clicks yet. Not only that but there's a heck of a lot of humour to be found this episode. I know that the first half of the game had me laughing quite a bit (one cameo in particular on the roof is positively genius. It's just brilliant to see how the other characters would react to the whole situation.)
Writing wise you're faced with a difficult decision, especially after 304s direction and revelations, and you have to tread carefully with making an ending that seems to tie up the feeling of the season. I think Telltale made the right choices, and we can't know the options and decisions they had to go through to come to this ending in the first place. It's certainly not what I was expecting and I think it's nice for this series to have a little more substance- that way you can totally go back to non sequitor adventures because the characters have finished looking at themselves and deciding what they're about.
I think what this season suffered most from was it's ambition: It really tried to break free from the old shells of Seasons 1 and 2, not just through darker writing and more character deaths but also through the format of the puzzles. Max's psychic powers, the Crime-Tron, the Astral Projector, Noir Sam's interrogation, and the potential Alternate Reality Game were all made to drive the game away from its usual inventory based puzzles. Max's powers were great to use and had the potential to be used well, but the Crime-Tron was a waste in my opinion. It was only used for one episode and the clue-finding got way too monotonous.
The story itself seemed really ambitious as well, and collapsed under its own hype. The molemen were cut out of the story in the 5th episode (a mistake, in my opinion), Stinky and Sal's sordid backstory was rushed, we're not quite sure how the Narrator set up his plan, and the time travel elevator seemed like a cop out (I have a different idea for how Max could have died and come back to life.) At one point, Jake mentioned that the alternate universe with Electromagnetic Sam was originally going to be part of the game, but it fell through because the programmers had no idea how to do it.
Most of the writing was great, all of the music was good, I liked the return of some of the characters from the previous games (including Sal), some of the puzzles were brilliant, but the whole season tried too hard.
I achknowledge some of the problems people had with the episode. A lot of things in the ending just came out of nowhere (
Max showing sympathy for Sybi when he never has before, Max coming back in the timemachine, Max teleporting and blowing up somehow, the cloning device conveniently not working)
but they just don't bother me.
But I think better ending would've been
Sam goes back in time to a period where Sam and Max were still alive, and plots to kill the Sam of that time.
One thing I would like to reiterate is that the way
Sal
dying was handled perfectly. Nobody cared, it didn't lead to anybody overreacting or being mopey or any drama, it just lead to some good jokes by Sam. That's how it should basically always be.
Some people apparently actually cried at the ending, so I'm sure those people won't agree with me, but yeah.
If people cry at the ending that's their perogative. I'm glad they like Sam and Max and their friendship enough for a moment like that to have impact.
When Max disintegrates in the laser grid in Bad Day on the Moon, or when he's kidnapped in Monkeys Villating the Heavenly Temple, I always feel a kittle bad along with Sam, but then a minute or two later it's fine because Sam finds clump of hoodlum ear hair on the ground, or Max starts speaking to us through a drawing Sma's made on his hand and all is well.
Or when Auntie Alice tries to strangle Max in his sleep, or when Fritz Nunkie or whatever his name is starts to threaten Sam and Max with a knife, things get tense for a moment, but then it's okay because Sam runs her over with the car, or a guy spontaneously combusts.
I'm fine with people having emotional reactions to moments like that, even though that's not entirely how I react in this particular case. I personally end up laughing at the whole ending, including Sam's walk, because I think the melodrama of it all is over the top ridiculous, but I also don't think its a parody of that moment. Everything is blown way out of proportion, but I think it's built around one of the few non ironic and non self aware parts of Sam and Max: their genuine friendship for each other.
That's what lets moments like that stretch at all in these stories, whether its in a creepy direction, a dramatic or melodramatic one, an incredulously goofy one, a combination of those or anything else.
We obviously didn't land it perfectly (probably an impossible thing to land perfectly), but I'm glad we tried something interesting for the end of the game. It would have been easy to have a big boss fight again (two episodes, and three seasons, in a row) but we didn't and whether or not everyone felt it was the thing they wanted to see, I'm glad we were able to try going for it.
Blowing up somehow? Even if he hadn't had a giant nuclear explosive stuck in his chest, his head had just caught fire, something that the narrator had described would wipe out part of the city and Momma Bosco claimed would kill him. If you don't know why he exploded, you must have played through the season with a blindfold and ear plugs.
Blowing up somehow? Even if he hadn't had a giant nuclear explosive stuck in his chest, his head had just caught fire, something that the narrator had described would wipe out part of the city and Momma Bosco claimed would kill him. If you don't know why he exploded, you must have played through the season with a blindfold and ear plugs.
I was mostly referring to the unexplained teleporting, unless we're expected to believe that he, I don't know, has all the powers of the toys for some reason.
And just because the game SAYS that his head catching on fire would wipe out the city doesn't mean it makes SENSE. That still counts as a somehow.
Who cares anyway? Me saying 'somehow' really angered you enough to say I played the game with a blindfold on? Cut me a break. Even if I was dead wrong it's not something you need to INSULT me over.
Holy guacamole, this was one sweet game and season. Way to go, guys! Really emotional ending
My favorite part of the whole season was the noirish part. It was the perfect mix of cliché, parody and plain coolness. Sweet! I'd love to see a reprise.
I'm a bit new to these games (discovered them last month) so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but when is another season to be expected?
he teleported himself to Skunkape's ship to save New York. I get it now.
Well, the way I interpret, the phone was hidden by the superego guy. He knew it was too late so he lies to Sam when he tells him he'll save Max. He wanted them out of here so he could teleport himself. At least that's the way that particular scene is played: we know Narrator is lying... and so does Sam.
The part with the Roomba was very difficult! But also hilarious. I own one of the little guys and I was chuckling the whole time XD
At one point, Jake mentioned that the alternate universe with Electromagnetic Sam was originally going to be part of the game, but it fell through because the programmers had no idea how to do it.
That's not true at all; I'm not sure where you got that from.
When Max teleports to a phone, the phone he's teleporting to starts to ring, i got that straight away. No one called Stinky, it was Max teleporting to her.
Max did. He used his toy phone teleportation powers which he shouldn't have had but did anyway.
Have you just forgot like that entire awesome finale of Episode 4? The God Like Max? Norrington somehow unlocked those powers so all Max had to do was remember them and he could use their abilities. It's easy to guess he still harbors some of that in his monster form.
When Max teleports to a phone, the phone he's teleporting to starts to ring, i got that straight away. No one called Sybil, it was Max teleporting to her.
Ehm, not really, her phone is gone. Which she pretty much mentions at the start ("Seriously. Has someone called me? Harry Moleman has took my phone from me and smashed it.").
Shame on those of you complaining about models used and cameo descriptions! Hi, did we all forget that this is a series that prides itself on script and characters over length and budget?
Bringing back old chars for the sake of just bringing them back helps no-one though. That's pretty basic storytelling. TTG themselves also said repeatedly that they wont bring chars back just for the heck of it, but only if they can give them a proper place in the story where they don't feel forced in.
Example of bad cameo's: Mass Effect 2 (The blue Asari teammate girl of which I cannot remember the name). Doing that just ruins her char for both games.
and you know what- they put out some of the best stuff on the market despite these setbacks.
I agree. But that doesn't mean they can foul up too. And blind praise helps no one, constructive critism does.
Artists who just hear praise wont improve their art.
No longer is it 'start episode, do soemthing for bosco and sybil, go one place else, end episode.'
Yeah, been like that in 203, 204 and 205 too. Which is more than half of Season 2.
It's really fun just seeing all these new places each episode and seeing where the characters end up next.
True true.
And of course, people saying this episode feels very max-less are missing the point. The whole episode is max oreientated.
Yet it kind of fails horribly in that point, wouldn't you agree? Until the end that is. That they actually did better in 303.
last episodes explanation was that Sam is the ultimate straight guy, the man who isn;t nearly as important or special as max, who is seperated from him to keep that distance.
You really misinterpretate the scene. Or don't know the meaning of "straight man"... or both. It's nothing like you make it out at least.
If you're complaining that there's not enough sam being with max, because that feels right, you're forgetting that good storytelling isn't about giving you what feels right.
However Max can't be without Sam and Sam without Max. They just fill each other perfectly. Which is why it's nice the spores are there as Semi-Maxes, but it's not the same (just like Past Max is not the same...)
But (unlike Dashing for example) I have to agree that season 3 is better than season 2. 303 and 305 combined aren't as horrible as 202 was, and 302 and 304 together whoop 204.
i meant stinky not sybil, oops. Plus when I said Max teleported to Sybil you should have realized who I meant as the only person he teleported to was stinky. I've edited it now but the start of your post makes no sense as he never teleported to sybil anyway
I thought you had the idea that Sybil appeared in the begin of 305 because Max kept calling her, and then "hang up" (not teleport). Which made no sense because she didn't have a phone!
But Stinky does. Anyone actually *not* get that's where Max teleported too, what with all the bright new star too?
I won't use spoiler tags because this thread is presumably for people who have beaten the episode.
Random, off-topic question for Telltale: Were you pissed off when you realized that 80% of us here had already guessed that the Narrator would turn out to be the mastermind?
It was probably meant to be a shocking revelation, and the superego part was pretty surprising, but...come on. We don't trust new things, and you've never had a Narrator figure in the past, and why would you even have a character model for him if he didn't turn out to be an actual character?
...season 3 is better than season 2. 303 and 305 combined aren't as horrible as 202 was, and 302 and 304 together whoop 204.
Agreed. Having said that, 202 wasn't the worst. The Bermuda Triangles were pretty funny, as was the comment from Sam about going up in the lift with the brake on.
While I'm at it, I may as well update my ranking of Sam & Max episodes/games:
Best:
1) 304 (the story, art, puzzles that fitted the story, the voices, cinematics - brilliant)
2) 302 (every cleverly put together and the moles are hilarious, puzzles also innovative)
3) 204 (funny as hell and the first for a lot of things, whether it be starting in an unusual place, an emotional response from Superball, not seeing the street and finishing up by embarking on a personal quest)
4) 205 (the puzzles were fitting and the revelation was brilliant, still no office)
5) 305 (some things were ill-thought out or rushed but otherwise a really sory-fulfilling episode)
6) 303 (the noir was great, as was act 2 but the "do these 3 arbitrary things", overuse of rhinoplasty and Sammun-Mak monotony almost overshadowed these things)
7) 106 (I personally rather enjoyed the tricks and Max's vices, not to mention everyone once they became Hugh-ed and Max-ed)
8) 104 (Superball and Abe Lincoln are awesome!)
Worst:
1) HtR (I just don't get it, okay? The interface is terrible, the acting is flat, I have to consult a walkthrough every time I attempt this game, the locations are as weird, whacky and American as they come...get the idea?)
2) 202 (the babies sucked, the Moai heads were boring, the sea chimps with faux Jamaican accents got on my nerves, Sybil was even more bland than normal)
3) 102 (Myra and the Soda Poppers - need I say more? Plus I really don't like or get Midtown Cowboys)
4) 203 (there are so many things that it had got going for it but got let down in execution, eg. secret passages in the castle, 80s Techno/Goth/Rock...having said all that, Jurgen was pretty awesome, as was the monster and Zombie Sam/Max)
5) 201 (Soda Poppers, elves and a rather Shambolic Corporate Presence ruined this for me)
6) 103 (the episode felt incredibly short and the Mafia could have been a lot more competent and intimidating)
7) 101 (good for a first episode but Soda Poppers and whiny Brady Culture - enough said)
8) 105 (I like the concept, the money laundering puzzle and the text adventure as a boss fight at the end but the episode was a mess, with no clear direction of what to do)
My Top 8 Best Telltale episodes (out of ToMI and Sam & Max because I haven't yet finished W&G or SB and Bone doesn't come close to the rest)
1) S&M 304
2) S&M 302
3) ToMI 104
4) ToMI 103
5) ToMI 105 (would have been higher but all that walking in act 2 is a pain)
6) S&M 204
7) S&M 205
8) S&M 303
My Top 8 Worst Telltale episodes (out of ToMI and Sam & Max because I haven't yet finished W&G or SB and I'm ignoring Bone)
1) S&M 202
2) S&M 102
3) ToMI 102 (gathering the artifacts could have been made harder and there could have been some kind of NPC on Roe Island)
4) S&M 203
5) S&M 201
6) ToMI 101 (the jungle was annoying, as were the Porcelain Power Pirates and the arbitrary puzzles)
7) S&M 103
8) S&M 101
doesn't matter now anyway. Its strange how people think stinky got a phone call at the end and thats why it rang, even though it was max teleporting to her, also the bright star seen is the explosion in space. Whats strange tho is how did max know stinky was on skunkape's ship and not at the diner, for all he knew he was teleporting to stinky in the diner or at the cloning facility and just blew up the city.
i think in Tales of Monkey Island that the last episode was the best, but only followed by the last part of The Trial and Execution (when your looking for the objects to make the sponge bigger). I didn't like the beginning of that episode much.
doesn't matter now anyway. Its strange how people think stinky got a phone call at the end and thats why it rang, even though it was max teleporting to her, also the bright star seen is the explosion in space. Whats strange tho is how did max know stinky was on skunkape's ship and not at the diner, for all he knew he was teleporting to stinky in the diner or at the cloning facility and just blew up the city.
The last he saw of her was landing into Skunkape's arms and being taken aboard his spaceship. He must have seen the ship leave and logically concluded the Mermaid (what IS her real name, anyway?) had left Earth.
I'm fine with people having emotional reactions to moments like that, even though that's not entirely how I react in this particular case. I personally end up laughing at the whole ending, including Sam's walk, because I think the melodrama of it all is over the top ridiculous, but I also don't think its a parody of that moment. Everything is blown way out of proportion, but I think it's built around one of the few non ironic and non self aware parts of Sam and Max: their genuine friendship for each other.
It may come off as stupid, but let me argue here. Yes, Sam's walk through the city was rather melodramatic (similarly to 303), but there was a real loss, real drama beneath. And while everybody knew secretly that Max will be back, there was a 1% chance that he wouldn't (there's always that element of uncertainty), and that built a bit of tension while watching Sam's sad progress. Since you knew what was coming, you could focus your attention in the details, and could laugh, but when I was playing through for the first time, I was just looking at every corner if there's a miraculous manifestation of Max in there, and was going like "when? come on, when?"
We obviously didn't land it perfectly (probably an impossible thing to land perfectly), but I'm glad we tried something interesting for the end of the game. It would have been easy to have a big boss fight again (two episodes, and three seasons, in a row) but we didn't and whether or not everyone felt it was the thing they wanted to see, I'm glad we were able to try going for it.
I agree here, and I also think the ending came out very well - it's no small feat introducing such emotional content into a Sam and Max game, and staying true to the spirit of the characters and the universe at the same time.
Didn't he only develop the tumor because of excessive use of psychic powers?
Hmm. I'm unsure if it's explained that way or the other.
But in the end, given that cutting the tumor would cure him of his being-a-huge-monster problem, it also most likely means it would erase his psychic "gift". So I believe tumor came first.
do you know if jurassic park or back to the future will be released on steam
do you know that this post is just plain irrelative
As a side note, we don't even know if they're going to be episodic or if they're going to be adventure games or anything (although some staff posts do indicate that those two are exactly what we will be seeing).
So no, no news on it yet. Don't expect them anytime soon, too, since they'll be coming out much, much later.
I wanted to ask someone from telltale, and since I could see someone from Telltale on the Sam and Max forums I thought I'd ask them here as I couldn't find them on the jurassic park forums or at least someone who would answer me today. Also they're coming out in winter which is in 2 months time, and winter lasts for 4 months, also much much later than what?
Comments
My biggest gripe is still no big baddie confrontation or final difficult puzzle. "It's something you've overlooked..." My ass! I listened to all the records the first time I was in that room!
The more I think about it, I was angry at the ending for this episode, but the forum-goers here have brought things up that changed my mind. I didn't like that Max A or X or whatever us cool kids are calling him was so excited about blowing up the electromagnetic monster Sam, but I suppose that's part of his personality.
You guys are just incredible. Bravo!
I was also very disappointed with the "puzzles" in this episode; 303's were stellar in comparison. The opening one was the best, the only one with any complexity, and it was spoiled with the non-logical Superball solution requiring a leap of faith instead of reason or imagination. Afterward, it was mostly doing the only things that could be done given the limited points of interaction, stumbling into solutions often without any basis for knowing how it would be important (fog machine, showing Sybil the baby roach). I have no idea how I got a photo of the Devil's Toybox in my inventory, and no interest in re-playing to find out.
In the best adventure games, I get the feeling that I'm discovering the narrative; at various points throughout the season, but especially in the entirety of 305, I was just being pulled along on a string through the narrative. Doesn't matter to me whether the story is fantastic or merely good; without some challenge in the gameplay, it's just a tedious click-through.
Also the time travel doesn't make sense, I always refer to back to the Future for that kind of thing which is Ironic as it's TellTale next game.
This series has also been the best storywise. My problem with the original two seasons is that they're a little too out there- not really the subject matter but the way everything is connected. Thiis series just connects everything together perfectly. We had our great villain in the last episode, and that was enough. We didn't need a second shocking revelation, we just needed to save max. Also, this season has been the most varied. No longer is it 'start episode, do soemthing for bosco and sybil, go one place else, end episode.' It's really fun just seeing all these new places each episode and seeing where the characters end up next.
And of course, people saying this episode feels very max-less are missing the point. The whole episode is max oreientated. The season has deliberately alienated him a bit- last episodes explanation was that Sam is the ultimate straight guy, the man who isn;t nearly as important or special as max, who is seperated from him to keep that distance. Here we actually had a bunch of characters concerning themselves with max again, only to find that he has his own inner demons to struggle with. I think this has definitely been sams series and it succeeds for it. If you're complaining that there's not enough sam being with max, because that feels right, you're forgetting that good storytelling isn't about giving you what feels right. If anything it's stronger for taking a much lonlier and more human path. It's made Sam an extremely enjoyable character to watch, and my only regret is that season 2 didn't make the right choice in making him the final villain (or his future self, anyway.)
Telltale, you've outdone yourselves. You've made something funny, but with some actual warmth and character development to it. I think it's going to be hard for you to top this one. Personally I feel that the series itself ends on this beautifully bittersweet moment. Money well spent on a great ride.
At all.
Just two things about the season overall.
1. At no point do you revisit the office in season 3. Not a big deal, but it would've been nice.
2. Some of the 'serious' moments like Noir Sam fell flat and made me uncomfortable. I thought
Sam and Max used to occasionally make jokes about the death of the other, and how they would (basically) only be mildly peeved. It should've stayed that way.
Big character developments would occur unearned, out of nowhere, for plot's sake. Max for some reason deciding to do a selfless act (something the narrator points out he has never done before), conveniently appeasing his superego and deus-ex-machina-ing away the Big Bad of the whole series? Really?!
So, if Sybil's water had broken in 301, and Max had decided to arbitrarily sympathize with her for some reason, all of this would have been prevented? Or if he had decidedly to arbitrarily sympathize with some other character? Nothing I did all season actually contributed to this resolution??
This, combined with the heavy-handed treatment of Max's sacrifice/death, and the arbitrary, hollow death of Sal* made the whole episode leave a bad taste in my mouth. It makes me think Telltale had better stick to the zany comedy-jokes, as their attempts at drama/character development in this episode were kind of cheap, cheesy, and unearned. I see what they were going for, but they didn't pull it off.
Aside from the narrative laziness, it seemed like a lot of the puzzles were rather rote, and one-note, relying on items dropped in places by the inventory fairy. Let's see, I need a video projector, a photo of the toy box, a camera, and a time bomb...say...here's a projector, a photo of the toy box, a video camera and a time bomb! Perhaps the most egregious example is the final puzzle, where a single room, with more or less a single possible action, uses a single item that has miraculously appeared in your inventory for this scene for this purpose. I'm not even sure why they bothered pausing the final cut-scene to allow this perfunctory moment of 'interaction.'
*Aside from the tonal and narrative problems with Sal's death, I also was kind of irritated that this episode brought back a bunch of tired Season 1 & 2 characters and killed off one of the funniest new characters introduced this season.
I really really liked this season, and was pretty geared up for this episode, with the whole Max-monster and everything. Sad to say, I was pretty disappointed with the whole resolution.
Max seems to feel that same way, at least in the cartoon.
I don't think that was supposed to be a puzzle.
And we already had our big baddie last episode. There was no big final villain, that was the joke. The mastermind was simply another factor of Maxes uncontrollable crazyness, and frankly, it was fed up. The affection plot device works because it makes the point that it has to at the time that it has to. He wasn't deus-exed away at all. He was never there to begin with.
This whole episode was meant to be about Max, and it was. I don't at all see how it was cheesy or cheap, because this kind of thing just hasn't been done with comedy point and clicks yet. Not only that but there's a heck of a lot of humour to be found this episode. I know that the first half of the game had me laughing quite a bit (one cameo in particular on the roof is positively genius. It's just brilliant to see how the other characters would react to the whole situation.)
Writing wise you're faced with a difficult decision, especially after 304s direction and revelations, and you have to tread carefully with making an ending that seems to tie up the feeling of the season. I think Telltale made the right choices, and we can't know the options and decisions they had to go through to come to this ending in the first place. It's certainly not what I was expecting and I think it's nice for this series to have a little more substance- that way you can totally go back to non sequitor adventures because the characters have finished looking at themselves and deciding what they're about.
The story itself seemed really ambitious as well, and collapsed under its own hype. The molemen were cut out of the story in the 5th episode (a mistake, in my opinion), Stinky and Sal's sordid backstory was rushed, we're not quite sure how the Narrator set up his plan, and the time travel elevator seemed like a cop out (I have a different idea for how Max could have died and come back to life.) At one point, Jake mentioned that the alternate universe with Electromagnetic Sam was originally going to be part of the game, but it fell through because the programmers had no idea how to do it.
Most of the writing was great, all of the music was good, I liked the return of some of the characters from the previous games (including Sal), some of the puzzles were brilliant, but the whole season tried too hard.
But I think better ending would've been
One thing I would like to reiterate is that the way
Some people apparently actually cried at the ending, so I'm sure those people won't agree with me, but yeah.
When Max disintegrates in the laser grid in Bad Day on the Moon, or when he's kidnapped in Monkeys Villating the Heavenly Temple, I always feel a kittle bad along with Sam, but then a minute or two later it's fine because Sam finds clump of hoodlum ear hair on the ground, or Max starts speaking to us through a drawing Sma's made on his hand and all is well.
Or when Auntie Alice tries to strangle Max in his sleep, or when Fritz Nunkie or whatever his name is starts to threaten Sam and Max with a knife, things get tense for a moment, but then it's okay because Sam runs her over with the car, or a guy spontaneously combusts.
I'm fine with people having emotional reactions to moments like that, even though that's not entirely how I react in this particular case. I personally end up laughing at the whole ending, including Sam's walk, because I think the melodrama of it all is over the top ridiculous, but I also don't think its a parody of that moment. Everything is blown way out of proportion, but I think it's built around one of the few non ironic and non self aware parts of Sam and Max: their genuine friendship for each other.
That's what lets moments like that stretch at all in these stories, whether its in a creepy direction, a dramatic or melodramatic one, an incredulously goofy one, a combination of those or anything else.
We obviously didn't land it perfectly (probably an impossible thing to land perfectly), but I'm glad we tried something interesting for the end of the game. It would have been easy to have a big boss fight again (two episodes, and three seasons, in a row) but we didn't and whether or not everyone felt it was the thing they wanted to see, I'm glad we were able to try going for it.
I was mostly referring to the unexplained teleporting, unless we're expected to believe that he, I don't know, has all the powers of the toys for some reason.
And just because the game SAYS that his head catching on fire would wipe out the city doesn't mean it makes SENSE. That still counts as a somehow.
Who cares anyway? Me saying 'somehow' really angered you enough to say I played the game with a blindfold on? Cut me a break. Even if I was dead wrong it's not something you need to INSULT me over.
My favorite part of the whole season was the noirish part. It was the perfect mix of cliché, parody and plain coolness. Sweet! I'd love to see a reprise.
I'm a bit new to these games (discovered them last month) so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but when is another season to be expected?
So who called Stinky right at the end?
Well, the way I interpret, the phone was hidden by the superego guy. He knew it was too late so he lies to Sam when he tells him he'll save Max. He wanted them out of here so he could teleport himself. At least that's the way that particular scene is played: we know Narrator is lying... and so does Sam.
The part with the Roomba was very difficult! But also hilarious. I own one of the little guys and I was chuckling the whole time XD
I hated Stinky :P
Have you just forgot like that entire awesome finale of Episode 4? The God Like Max? Norrington somehow unlocked those powers so all Max had to do was remember them and he could use their abilities. It's easy to guess he still harbors some of that in his monster form.
Example of bad cameo's: Mass Effect 2 (The blue Asari teammate girl of which I cannot remember the name). Doing that just ruins her char for both games. I agree. But that doesn't mean they can foul up too. And blind praise helps no one, constructive critism does.
Artists who just hear praise wont improve their art. Yeah, been like that in 203, 204 and 205 too. Which is more than half of Season 2. True true. Yet it kind of fails horribly in that point, wouldn't you agree? Until the end that is. That they actually did better in 303. You really misinterpretate the scene. Or don't know the meaning of "straight man"... or both. It's nothing like you make it out at least. However Max can't be without Sam and Sam without Max. They just fill each other perfectly. Which is why it's nice the spores are there as Semi-Maxes, but it's not the same (just like Past Max is not the same...)
But (unlike Dashing for example) I have to agree that season 3 is better than season 2. 303 and 305 combined aren't as horrible as 202 was, and 302 and 304 together whoop 204.
But Stinky does. Anyone actually *not* get that's where Max teleported too, what with all the bright new star too?
Random, off-topic question for Telltale: Were you pissed off when you realized that 80% of us here had already guessed that the Narrator would turn out to be the mastermind?
It was probably meant to be a shocking revelation, and the superego part was pretty surprising, but...come on. We don't trust new things, and you've never had a Narrator figure in the past, and why would you even have a character model for him if he didn't turn out to be an actual character?
Agreed. Having said that, 202 wasn't the worst. The Bermuda Triangles were pretty funny, as was the comment from Sam about going up in the lift with the brake on.
While I'm at it, I may as well update my ranking of Sam & Max episodes/games:
Best:
1) 304 (the story, art, puzzles that fitted the story, the voices, cinematics - brilliant)
2) 302 (every cleverly put together and the moles are hilarious, puzzles also innovative)
3) 204 (funny as hell and the first for a lot of things, whether it be starting in an unusual place, an emotional response from Superball, not seeing the street and finishing up by embarking on a personal quest)
4) 205 (the puzzles were fitting and the revelation was brilliant, still no office)
5) 305 (some things were ill-thought out or rushed but otherwise a really sory-fulfilling episode)
6) 303 (the noir was great, as was act 2 but the "do these 3 arbitrary things", overuse of rhinoplasty and Sammun-Mak monotony almost overshadowed these things)
7) 106 (I personally rather enjoyed the tricks and Max's vices, not to mention everyone once they became Hugh-ed and Max-ed)
8) 104 (Superball and Abe Lincoln are awesome!)
Worst:
1) HtR (I just don't get it, okay? The interface is terrible, the acting is flat, I have to consult a walkthrough every time I attempt this game, the locations are as weird, whacky and American as they come...get the idea?)
2) 202 (the babies sucked, the Moai heads were boring, the sea chimps with faux Jamaican accents got on my nerves, Sybil was even more bland than normal)
3) 102 (Myra and the Soda Poppers - need I say more? Plus I really don't like or get Midtown Cowboys)
4) 203 (there are so many things that it had got going for it but got let down in execution, eg. secret passages in the castle, 80s Techno/Goth/Rock...having said all that, Jurgen was pretty awesome, as was the monster and Zombie Sam/Max)
5) 201 (Soda Poppers, elves and a rather Shambolic Corporate Presence ruined this for me)
6) 103 (the episode felt incredibly short and the Mafia could have been a lot more competent and intimidating)
7) 101 (good for a first episode but Soda Poppers and whiny Brady Culture - enough said)
8) 105 (I like the concept, the money laundering puzzle and the text adventure as a boss fight at the end but the episode was a mess, with no clear direction of what to do)
My Top 8 Best Telltale episodes (out of ToMI and Sam & Max because I haven't yet finished W&G or SB and Bone doesn't come close to the rest)
1) S&M 304
2) S&M 302
3) ToMI 104
4) ToMI 103
5) ToMI 105 (would have been higher but all that walking in act 2 is a pain)
6) S&M 204
7) S&M 205
8) S&M 303
My Top 8 Worst Telltale episodes (out of ToMI and Sam & Max because I haven't yet finished W&G or SB and I'm ignoring Bone)
1) S&M 202
2) S&M 102
3) ToMI 102 (gathering the artifacts could have been made harder and there could have been some kind of NPC on Roe Island)
4) S&M 203
5) S&M 201
6) ToMI 101 (the jungle was annoying, as were the Porcelain Power Pirates and the arbitrary puzzles)
7) S&M 103
8) S&M 101
The last he saw of her was landing into Skunkape's arms and being taken aboard his spaceship. He must have seen the ship leave and logically concluded the Mermaid (what IS her real name, anyway?) had left Earth.
It may come off as stupid, but let me argue here. Yes, Sam's walk through the city was rather melodramatic (similarly to 303), but there was a real loss, real drama beneath. And while everybody knew secretly that Max will be back, there was a 1% chance that he wouldn't (there's always that element of uncertainty), and that built a bit of tension while watching Sam's sad progress. Since you knew what was coming, you could focus your attention in the details, and could laugh, but when I was playing through for the first time, I was just looking at every corner if there's a miraculous manifestation of Max in there, and was going like "when? come on, when?"
I agree here, and I also think the ending came out very well - it's no small feat introducing such emotional content into a Sam and Max game, and staying true to the spirit of the characters and the universe at the same time.
It's fortunate the
Sam will have to remember to do something about Max's tumor. THAT will kill him eventually
Hmm. I'm unsure if it's explained that way or the other.
do you know that this post is just plain irrelative
As a side note, we don't even know if they're going to be episodic or if they're going to be adventure games or anything (although some staff posts do indicate that those two are exactly what we will be seeing).
So no, no news on it yet. Don't expect them anytime soon, too, since they'll be coming out much, much later.